The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Why You’re Looking at Investments Wrong w/ Jonathan DeYoe


Financial planning has always seemed like voodoo to me.


Luckily, I have a podcast and can interrogate the experts.


Turns out, there are only 3 things you need to do for successful financial planning.


The trick is sticking to them.


But according to Jonathan DeYoe, Founder and CEO of Mindful Money and President of DeYoe Wealth Management, that’s easier said than done for most people. 


He joins me on the show today to discuss why so many people are so bad at financial planning and what we can do about it. 


Jonathan explains:


- What our culture gets wrong about financial planning


- The best way to approach investments


- Rethinking our definitions of success

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Jonathan DeYoe, Founder and CEO of Mindful Money and President of DeYoe Wealth Management..


For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience. If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Don't just by destiny of my hunter. There's a lot of risk in that. You know, maybe you need some bonds, maybe you need some international maybe need some other things in there, and you want to set that risk level so that you can hold again when it's not comfortable to hold. The key is consistency, not brilliant. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking some about some of the many of us worry about, struggle with or, in some cases, maybe you're an avoid it's called financial planning and, especially during uncertain times, when the world is in flux, this can introduce a lot of stress confusion often, but is something that we all should be paying attention to. So to help us, we have with US Jonathan Dyoh, founder and CEO of mindful money and best selling author of mindful money, simple practices for reaching your financial goals and increasing your happiness. Dividend. Jonathan, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Thanks for having me chat. Happy to be here. So we always like to start with kind of off the wall question to so people get to know you're a little bit better. And since we're all in the middle of this pandemic, that means we can spend more time at home, and so I'm curious if the time at home has allowed you to connect with or discover a hobby of passion or a pastime that's kind of giving you solace and all of this. So I honestly don't feel like I've had any extra time. I've work and during a market dissocation like this, you know us in the investment management world, we've been doing a lot to improve clients bottom lines and the same time, because there's been so much stress in here, we've had up our communication with clients and we've actually said, okay, let's take this time and launched some movement it some new financial literacy courses. That being said, I'm a big habit buff in my you know, earlier this year, late December, earlier January I was on a plane. I you know, as often happens, you get off the plane, you get sick, whatever's on the plane gets you. So I got sick and and my morning normal mourning routines, which involve meditation, some kind of high intense exercise, reading, writing, had kind of fallen off. So I did use I did use the early work from home to get back into the routine and I'm now on my second round Pidx in quarantine. Yeah, I got to the point where I was working out with resistance bands for the first thirty days and I was like, okay, this is just not cutting it. So ended up having ended up putting in at home gym just because I needed to be I needed to be doing something more than those resistance bands were allowing. Totally everyone I've talked to it. I said, you know, when you've asked the question what you've been doing. You know shelterer in place. So like I am exercising more. Yeah, and it's great. And it's interesting because because kind of we were talking before he record, I actually...

...talked to the president and a fitness gallery here in Denver and his business is up three hundred and sixty eight percentice year. That's awesome. Good for him. Yeah, which you know he's said. He was very grateful, as we were talking about before. So it's just it's interesting to see how it's all shaking out. So let's talk about financial planning, and I'm going to be really probably more honest here than I should be. This is black magic for me. Like I'm good at a lot of things, but when it comes to financial planning or understanding all of the things, this makes my head hurt. Right I'm creative by nature. It's always seemed like one of those disciplines for people that have more money than I have. So how did you get into it and what was the path to lead you founding mindful money? So frankly, it's a good to ask the question. I wasn't initially interested in financial planning. I was, and I've always been, interested in investing. I purchased my first bock when I was nine years old. I was at nine, ten and eleven year old and avid reader of the old school binders value line research. I dabbled with investing until graduate school when I was hired by Dean Witter, which quickly morphed into Morgan Stanley and I was hired with them to sell investments. So I spent five years looking for a home at different Wall Street firms before starting my own from in two thousand and one. And for me, financial planning came about as a way to improve investing. The problem with investing in our culture specific as that we are almost always market focused in performance driven, and this is a problem because neither the market nor performance are ever in any way within our control. So if we're being honest, as advisors, we can't predict or control markets and the vast majority of people who attempt it fail. So there's got to be a better way. So the first step of the better way is to understand the tradeoffs that we need to make in order to make the dreams of our futures become a reality. And that's a that's a real fancy way to say fernancial planning. If if we change from a market focus performance driven attitude to a goal focused and planning driven attitude, will begin to pull on levers that might actually improve our long term outcomes. So I left law street firms where I sold investments to specifically focus on those twin supports of financial planning and education. Okay, and so and so we've got mindful money and mindful is I it's almost becoming a buzz word. I mean, I understand the science find it. I'm a big believer in mindfulness, but I'm curious, is that shift in perspective where the application of that concept of mindfulness comes as you apply it to financial planning for your clients? Yeah, yeah, I appreciate the we ask the question how, you know, how do we apply mind from this to financial planning? Like what? What is the link there? So they seem really different. To put it simply, as you sort of remised, the plan becomes the signal in your financial life. The financial media is the noise.

If we take for granted that markets are not predictable or controllable, then you got to ask the question why does ninety five percent of financial journalism focus on investment selection and market timing? Remember, those aren't predictable. So we need a tool to remember in the face of whatever the cat catastrophe of the day is, that allow us to focus on that signal, which is our plan, not the noise. Now, if you if you have a planet place, and even if that plan is comprehensive, both describing current future sort of spending, saving tradeoffs and an investment process. Specifically, the minute you turn on the radio or listen to a podcast or watch TV or open a newsreader, you bombarded with this noise. And we got to keep in mind that behavioral psychology tells us that we are riddled, absolutely riddled, with cognitive and emotional biases that makes seeing the truth incredibly difficult in times of stress likecom great recession or covid nineteen. So mindfulness creates a space for you to recognize the noise, allow the noise to be present, investigate the noise in the context of your plan and then not react to it. Mindfulness creates a doorway to rational thought. I like that. I like and it, I mean it's very similar in any other place that you might apply mine. Fullness in and of itself, I like that concept of the space gives you the space to think right instead of instead of giving to the noise. And so, based on that, you said something that was interesting. If we're in I mean we're in a pandemic, so everybody's extremely stressed, there's heightened emotions across the board. Everybody's dealing with zoom fatigue, getting all of this stuff. Are there specific actions you're suggesting that your clients take? Because what I thought I heard you say was focus on the signal, not the noise. So that would mean all of the noise we're hearing today may not necessarily mean much to us, depending on what our plan is. That's I mean, you said it perfectly like that's exactly right. In this circumstance today, we're all locked at home, there's an enormous amount of noise and we talked earlier about how lucky we are that this hasn't affected our income. So I have to say that there are a lot of people, you know, right in front there's a lot of people lost jobs, a lot of people are having a really difficult time of this. So, while I do believe they will pull through this, it's a lot easier for someone like me, someone like you working from home, where we can still be functional and still work. It's not easier for us to be to manage our things and to pay attention to the signal and not be overwhelmed by the noise. But yeah, of course there's definitely advice we offer in this kind of a timeframe and I put the advice and in two different buckets. We remind people of the first bucket. In the first bucket is this is the stuff we always do. So in the always bucket, it starts with accepting that bear markets, regardless of the causes,...

...are normal. They're unavoidable part of the process. It's because they're unavoidable, unpredictable, uncontrollable that we always, this is again always bucket, recommend people maintain the Emergency Fund and always invest with three basic principles. The first is plan appropriate asset allocation, the second is broad diversification and the third is regular rebalancing. And that sounds really simple, because it is really simple, but most people are incapable of following these simple three step processes. Then, because we are in the midst of a pandemic, there are a few things we're going to suggest that we do a little differently, but it's really just applying our tried and true to a new scenario. And so when things break, which they routinely do, we recommend adding a rebalance. When markets are dislocated, what an opportunity to buy low and sell high. And then sometimes when some things go down and value, what a great chance to tax loss harvest. Look for something you can use to set against future games. And then, you know, maybe earlier in this pandemic and made a lot of sense and we may see markets fall again. Right now they've recovered quite nicely, but if they fall again and you and you haven't thought about it the last time, maybe consider a roth conversion, if your income is down and you can convert, you know, from a traditional iraads or roth clay. Right now might give good time to do that. And then, finally, the thing we're recommending everybody do right now is refinance and a home debt, because I mean I literally yesterday I got a quote from my mortgage person saying that I could get fifteen year fixed mortgage for under two and a half percent. That's that's free money. When inflation is at two, two, two point one. Right. Why would you not do that? Right? Right. And so when we think about money, it's a it's a stressor, especially in turbulent times, right when when people that aren't as fortunate as the two of us are may be struggling. So why is it that this is is it? Is it really just about being able to provide for oneself that makes it such a stresser, or is there a cultural, environmental, other elements that make it such a high stress conversation for so many people. So I guess, you know, starting the same way, we sort of the last answer. The last question, I think there is there are people that have lost jobs where, you know, the stress comes from. How am I going to pay my rent? And that that's a different that's a serious issue that, again, doesn't face everybody. I think largely the concept of money is cultural, or the concept of stressor and money is cultural, because we have we've financialized everything. You know, our idea of success is normally financial. The entires I have three seconds in my book. The entire Middle Section of the book is devoted to remembering what true wealth is. So one of those things that that bring us contentment and happiness, things like staying healthy, continuous learning, you know, ex new experiences, maintaining close relationships both...

...with family and with friends, seeking purpose, something that some way that you can give to the world, staying accountable to yourself, being generous, being grateful. So one of the important implications of the planning process is you actually have to think about what matters to you. Your definition of success should involve things that make you happy and if you build a life on that foundation. Money's allowed US stressful. I love it. I love it all right. So let's say somebody walks into well, maybe not walks in your office right now, but gives you a call and they have they're like me, they have no clue what they're doing, but we know we need to do something and my experience in the past with financial planners or wealth managers is there is a very short window for me to build trust, enough trust with them to believe what they're telling me and also trust them with my money. And so I'm curious the concept of mindfulness. Big Fan of but does it change the way you engage with someone when they first walk in your office? ARE FIRST ENGAGE WITH MINDFUL MONEY? What does that look like? So that I mean the difference, the mindfulness difference that we present or that we that we believe in. I've always had that. So I don't know. I don't know how else I would do this, but when somebody does come into our office for that first time, you know we're really asking a lot of questions. So we want to know what's important to folks, what you value, value, what's your what's the financial history like? What your money scripts. We really want to know if there is a philosophical fit between what we think we can offer and what somebody is looking for. When recognize the word a bit different and we want to make sure that we can help. But you know, we're more than happy in cases where somebody thinks that hey, tradings right way to go or, you know, time in the market something they're interested in, we're happy to introduce another advisor and recommend other people that have that believe that that's a possibility. I've got no issue referring somebody else. The other part of this is we get a lot of calls from folks who like the book or have heard me on one of these podcasts and really like what we're saying, but who aren't ready for the types of higher touch services and the things that we do. So sometimes we end up referring them to some basic one of our courses we have. We have financial literacy courses. We're actually working, you know, in quarantine, working on a sixteen module, you know, soup to nuts, financial order cy. Course we're going to use it in our community, we're Elo going to offer it to the world and sometimes we'll get them started with the course like that, and sometimes we'll say, hey, try out some of our digital tools or digital portfolios that are a little bit less expensive but also involved less of that of a natural plan or involved. I love it, all right, so it do you do? You think? You know, I have a lot of friends, but like, oh no, I'm do it myself. I'm just going to open an e trade account or whatever and I'm just going to trade stocks. That to me feels like timing and I am I getting this that I' trying to time the market is at a correct yeah, some so, me so.

I mean those folks followed a couple different categories. There are the people that are now on Robin Hood and trying to know they're buying Tesla, and I think that's a problem. But there's also people that are saying, you know, I'm going to go to bank guard and may be broadly diversified and I'm just going I'm gonna do it myself. Both of those people, you know, I would worry about the person that's trading buying Tesla, the person it's being diversified. If you can do those three behaviors that we talked about earlier, the planet propecate acid allocation, broad diversification, rebalancing. People can do that on their own and if they can do their own, great, if they want some support in that process or supporting the planning process, that's why we created the courses, like we created the courses that educate people about you know, and let's let's let's face I mean the reality is the financial life is way bigger than investing, investing the piece of it. There's a right way to do that. I believe. There's all this other stuff. You know, your state plan, your you know, what do you how you leave your kids? You know, when you're out there with you ensure stuff, you're not insure stuff, you know, spending versus saving. How much do we have to say to get the point? Eight, point, PEO, point. See, you know, what are the all these different pieces are important to work together, and so I think people can employ those three behaviors themselves. I think that the challenge becomes when you're employing those behaviors yourself and then covid happens. You know, can you stick with it when it's not comfortable? And that is that is why, you know, when I first got healthy, when I went to the gym for the worst few times I had a had a coach to tell me, you know, I realize this is painful, but you got to push out two more reps, or I realize, I realize this is this is not easy to do, but we got to run another two miles and tomorrow we're going to run three more, you know. So it's it's part of that coaching process is supporting the right behaviors precisely when it's the most difficult time to employ them. Okay, love it. And so when you talk about goal focused and plan appropriate investing, can you go a little bit deeper on that, because it sounds great, but I'm not a hundred percent sure I've got my head wrapped around it, which I'm going to assume means the audience probably has an either. Yeah, well, I mean, I'll it's really simple. So by being goal focused, what I'm saying is understand where you want to go at the beginning and then create a plan that involves not just investment returns but saving enough to get alongside those investment returns, and then you build a portfolio with the types of risk levels that would be appropriate to that plan. So plan appropriate is simply meaning you know don't just by destiny, by hunter. There's a lot of risk in that. You know, maybe you need some bonds, maybe you need some international, maybe need some other things in there, and you want to set that risk level so that you can hold again when it's not comfortable to hold. The key is consistency, not brilliant. I love it that our marketing teams going to pull that out as one of your quotes. Just so you know. I can already tell I know that one's and so so. Is that one of the hop mistakes you see individuals make because they don't keep that consistent behavior with those three behaviors as they go and do... themselves? Is that to the number one challenge? You see her is are different one. I think the number one challenge people never actually stop to think about what are the behaviors they're supposed to employ. But yeah, once they know those behaviors, then they go out into the world and the world just throws them stuff all the time and they have to react and they become reactionary. And if you become reactionary you're never acting on the plan. And if you know, Great Investors Act on their plan. The investors that often fail are reacting to some sort of market stimulus all the time and you just you again. You can't time markets, and that's the that's the biggest illusion that the financial press is given us is that you know, so covid happens, then I should do something. Well, well, whencom happened, I should do something. Well, what were you doing to begin with? and Rs the right figure it out and then do it that way and don't change because somebody changes the immediate present, because it you know how many of these things have happened, and then they just go away in time. Right, and this you know. It's difficult for people to hear it, but I've said this not a thousand times. COVID is painful. There is looking to be a lot of people that die. I'll whole bunch more there and to get sick. But this too shall class and markets and economies are going to kick off where they where they ended, and much is going to return to the way it was. Excellent. All right, so let's change direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions. It's the virtunity first, as simply as a CEO and founder, that makes you a target or prospect for a lot of other people out there selling stuff, and so I'm always curious to know if somebody doesn't have a trusted referral into you. I don't know somebody who you trust to get into the door. What is it that works with you to capture your attention and Pique your curiosity so somebody can earn time on your calendar? Wow, that's that's almost not possible. I mean serious and seriously. So there's only as you know, there's we all I do specifically, but I'm sure that most founders of companies do this. We build barriers, sacks as the only thing I actually check myself is my linkedin and the vast majority people trying to connect on Linkin, I'm I answer the connect with them, but then if I get that email from them right afterwards and this says hey, we know, we think we have this new product that you should buy, I'm going to basically delete that connection immediately. Right. The trick, I think, is to make it personal, like how many I don't you probably get this to, like how many? How many linkedin requests or emails do you get? Where they're just they haven't done their homework. I had people that are offering me jobs. I'm like, I have no interest in working for something else at all. So they haven't done their homework. Theyven looked at who I was, what I'm interested in, when I'm passionate about but sometimes, like I had a high school student from Berthley, California, it's where I on my office, is who emailed me and it was intriguing because he actually asked the question. You know, how does mindfulness fit into personal finance and investing? I'm really curious. That was it. He was curious about what I was...

...passioned about, and I'm like, I'm going to talk to this kid right, right, so we've connected and now he's he's actually in our in one of our education systems. But yeah, if you make it personal and you know what I stand for, then much more likely to get through. Still, that's an uphill battle for sure. All right, last question. We call it our acceleration in sight. There was one thing you could tell sales, marketing, professional service people, just professional people in general, one piece of advice you could give them that you believe would help them hit their targets. What would it be? M Why? Just one? Just? Why? Yeah, one, all right. So that's the thing that helps him hit their target. I think is is yet you got to keep score on the behaviors they're going to move the needle for you. So maybe it's, you know, maybe it's first time contacts, maybe it's linkedin connections, maybe it's getting proposals into the hands of great prospects. Choose the four or five things that move the move the needle and then and then track those things. And by the way, when I when I did this for myself, I made daily exercise one of the things that moves the needle because I think that I think that the difficulty of committing to a daily exercise program and you know the pain your experience and doing high intensitive, high intensity training kinds of things, pushing through that creates a muscle. Exercise is not just your muscle les, but the Habit Muscle, the discipline muscle. And sales, as you know, is often just repetit. You do this thing a number of times and certain number of people are going to say yes, and so I think you should get points for committing to health. And I'm going to sneak one and leave a profit. This is my second one, and leave a profit in every interaction with every potential client. Make sure you're giving more than you're expecting. Yeah, that, I love them. Big Fan of that one myself, as as well as the exercise. So all right. So, John, if a listeners interested in learning more about the topics we've touched on, where's the best place to send them to? The website? Yeah, Besta to go and be mindful dot money and if, if they sign up for for our email list, make sure their reference either your name or the or the name of the podcast and we will send them, you know, announcements when we're launching courses and most kinds of things. Will send them invites to our some of the precourses we put out. Excellent, John, I can't thank you enough for taking time. It's been great having you on the show. Chad has been great. I appreciate it all right, everybody that does of this episode, you know, the drill be to be REV exactcom share with friends, family, Co workers. Feel like what you here, leave us a review on itunes. Until next time, we at value selling associates with you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB Revenue Executive Experience to ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening, until next time.

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