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Is fear influencing your career? Are you focusing on your customers’ problems instead of providing solutions?
Episode · 4 years ago
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Episode · 4 years ago
Townsend Wardlaw on The Solution Sales Mindset
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Is fear influencing your career? Are you focusing on your customers’ problems instead of providing solutions?
You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the be tob revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about sales mindset and mindset in general, the power that it brings to your life and how you're going to be more effective if you're spending the time focusing on that. And to do that we have with US towns of Ward Law. Unless you've been living in a bell jar, everybody WHO's Scott Access to linkedin should know who towns in is, but downs on for those who don't. Would you do us the pleasure just give us a little intro? Well, I think I think of lately, I just call myself the linkedin terrorist. Other than that, it I have. I have been on a tirade on Linkedin and actually I'll get see my background a second. But interestingly enough, as of this year I'm I'm pretty much off linkedin. I mean I still have a profile, I still intend to post, you know, just kind of articles and obviously sharing your stuff, but I made a conscious decision that I just I don't have the sanity, I guess, to engage all day long with with the craziness that's going on on linked in these days. is but I guess the Cliftonos story is I I had a had my first real real job, if you want. I was twenty seven. I kind of goofed around and race bicycles and working the bison sheet till then, at some point I woke up and said I need to make some money and, as I like to say, thus being unqualified for anything else, I entered a career in sales, which I think so a lot of people do it. And in six, six and a half years, think it was, I probably sit the land speed record from, you know, rolling burritos on the weekends to be in a VP of sales for fortune five hundred company, making a ton of money. But I hated it. I just had hated the corporate world. I woke up on a Sunday dreading Monday. So I started my own company to do at least the time I thought it was sales, consulting, etc. This was Gosh circuit two thousand and two. And ran that for about nine years until the second financial downturn and my own naivete as an entrepreneur killed me, or killed my company anyway. And since two thousand and nine I've when I shut down the company, I've been live in the glamorous and relaxing life of of a solo consultant who seems to serve, but mostly glamors from rising, yeah, but but mostly what I've spent a lot of time doing is trying to serve founder CEOS of companies, principally in the you know, I think if it is the one to ten million dollar death zone. Right, you get to one million dollars as a company, you throw a big party, I get an office and you're excited and then you go, holy crap, this is really hard and gets expensive. So I help entrepreneurs who were in there, somewhere in that range and are stuck, you know, figure out how to really move from entrepreneurial selling to sfacial selling and have a process and structure and accountability and all that all that bothersome stuff, and so when we were talking about topics for the day. We talked to me. You and I met actually when you were doing some of the process, sales process consulting, and so, yeah, and so now there seems to be a shift. We've been talking about mindset. Help me understand how you went from or what the realization was that, okay, the process, you know, being the Ninja, the process and stuff is all great, but the real impact is that shift in mindset. How did that? How that lightbulb come on for you? Yeah, well, it was probably a series of dim and dark and dim and dark. But I, you know, I you know, I would say that that my brand and really what I care about from a sales process standpoint has always been built on what I call the exactly how right. I'm somehow screwed up in the head and I'm wired for just being absolutely, I'd take, passionate. But really it's obsessive about how do you do things right.
So I think a lot of the problem with sales process, sells training, you know, sales methodology, is there's a lot of arm waving, a lot of, you know, broad strokes, and I really, you know, for the past gosh at least decade been fixated on creating process, these tools, methodologies, workbooks, whatever that give people the you know, it's like, you know, a cookbook, right. A Cook Book doesn't say Yeah, Lesagna, you sort of take some pasta and some sauce and, you know, ex step, I step. So. So I really loved doing that and I've combined that with my practice of helping these companies in that area up was talking about. So throughout that that journey I had the chance to work with a lot of great companies, a lot of talented people, and what I kept coming to was sort of the realization that even with the right environment and the right process and the right, you know, row set of capabilities, people still hit a wall. Right, there's still something that is preventing them from reaching this this this other level. Now you kind of you kind of parallel that, that realization with the fact that in two thousand nine such a shut down, my company, went through divorce, went through bankruptcy, you know, went to the hospital because I was so stressed out, and that really became this journey for me of man, I got to get my life together, I got to figure out how to live life better and was doing a lot of stuff for myself with respect to, you know, where's my head at, you know what's my mindset, what's my purpose? And and have reached out and found a lot of really good, you know, call it, call it mentors or methodologies or whatever, for how do you expand the power of the mind? Right? And there was, I don't know, probably, I don't know. I want to say it's probably first time. Six, seven years ago, I had a one individual that I was co chaining right now. This person had been coaching. I've been working in the for a couple of years and if you look down from the outside, right, intelligent, articulate, handsome, you know, all the right raw materials. He'd been working with me for two years really intensively. So it would be hard to argue that he was anything other than, you know, an absolute black belt, you know, Ninja level sales guy. Right, he was phenomenally talented and we would, you know, to preparation, we would do role playing and then he'd get on the phone and I'd come back and do a breet debrief of the conversation, and it was awful. Right, we would hit the objectives, he would literally just just just collect. You know, it wasn't working and I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. It's like, you know, you got a Formula One race car and Mario and Dreddia that keeps coming last you like something's wrong. So, most story short, he was out of town. He came in into the office when day in Denver and he had three calls plan that day in the office. There would be phone calls and you know, we've done all the prep and we had actually blocked them an hour to prepare, you know, for these calls. And typically that meant role play. Typically that meant you know, what you going to say, were objectives, you know, the usual sales coach bs right, and I said, well, let's let's try something different and actually walked him through an exercise that I had, you know, put together, you know, for myself really, and this was what I call a fear hunting exercise, for lack of a better term. It's let's see where fear is showing up to impede or create resistance in your life, right, and I've never, literally never done this in the sales exercize though, in personal stuff. So we started with you know, what's showing on for you emotionally? You know in terms of, you know, emotions, sensations, etc. And literally took that all the way through the story. Fear was telling him about what was going to happen on these calls, what might happen. That was bad. How I would react. I'll spare you all the details. But for him, when you push the story all the way to the, you know, the deepest, darkest corner, what we're showing up for him was this was the first of many events that were going to lead ultimately to him being back on the street sell an insurance door to door or where he was supposed to be right ten years ago.
And we cleared that and he was I mean I you could like see. This is absolutely, you know, visual difference in him. I left the room. I came back, you know, about an hour later. She was starting the calls and I sat there with my jaw open as he proceeded to go through, you know, three of the most powerful sales calls I've ever seen anybody do. And these were these are not with, you know, some low level person, these with CFOs and CEOS, and he was able to access all of his capabilities, all of this facilities, all of his intelligence, because there was nothing getting in the way. So I think maybe some people out there going it's kind of a weird, weird interview, but that's that was that was really the first time I said, wait a minute, there's a there's a whole nother level here. If I can help people, you know, for years my whole stick was let me give you better tools, better capabilities, right, and I still believe that's an important foundation. But this was like my first holy crap, if I could help people have more complete access, you know, more and more, more, just more access to all that they already have, they can accomplish more than they ever thought they could. So cut a long wait an answer. But that's really where this all started. Well, I mean, and you're talking about I mean that that's a as a powerful story, right, because the fear that we all live with, the question, first question becomes are you even aware of it? Like, are you even aware of the things that are getting in your own way? And we see it, I mean I see it a lot whenever from clients with the prospecting stuff. People are just scared of the phone. Yeah, scared of the rejection. Right, that's one of the first places you can actually like point at it and they go, Oh, yeah, there's fear there, but there's a hell of a lot more yea. That goes into that. That goes into understanding where, for your plays a role in your life that drastically impact or success. Yes, whether it be sales or any other any other anything. Yeah, what I want to be clear when I talk about fear right, I'm talking about not just the emotion of being scared, but I'm talking about what I think of is the force of fear right, the deeper, darker, you know, monster that lives within when all of us right and fear is the force. How fear manifest itself in our head is actually the emotions, and that could be anxiety. That could be, you know, nervousness of picking up the foam, but it can also be anxiety. It can also be anger, can be jealousy, any negative emotion in my in my view, right creates resistance to being in the moment, as some would call it right. I call it on my center point, my coach calls it on your Red Dot, you know, kind of like you go to the mall and you're looking for make season. You have to start with the map and what do you do? You go okay, well, Oh, you are here. Right. So what fear really does is take us away from, or tries to move us away from the moment, what's going on, what is happening, and tries to take us to memories of what have happened. But we'll remember you screw this up last time, right, or what could happen? Well, if you screw this up, then this, then that another thing. So it's so pervasive in our lives. And you know, if you ask somebody what percentage of time you know, do you walk around life just at peace? Right? Not, you know, not high five in everybody, but certainly not activated with negativity, angry at a driver, pissed off at your spouse, worried about your kids in school, you know whatever. It turns out it's a pretty small percentage. Right. We spend so much of our time, right. And then here's the other funny part. Right, something happens, you screw up a call or a driver cuts you off, or your boss makes you mad or you know whatever. And and not only are we penalized in that moment with all that negative energy, we don't have to process it. It could be ours could be days where we're getting over it. And you know I'm not. I'm not a real kind of what I would call fluffy Cronola grunch, you know, Granola crunchy. You know, it's there about. I'm a pretty kind of hard nosed sales person. But if you think about it from the pure you know, take about it from from an overhead since, you know, operating system overhead of computer. Right, if all of this energy is constantly running to deal with...
...the stories they're going on our head about what happened, what's going to happen, etc. In the moment, we have very little energy to actually apply to whatever we're doing at that moment. What are we're trying to complish? Yeah, and it's what you realize is, Holy Shit, I'm spending so much energy, you know, so much overhead, just trying to get through the day. No wonder, I'm exhausted. All right. So imagine if you do like literally clip all that extra energy spend and you're sitting there instead of running at you know, eighty five percent, nine percent CPU just to just to get by. I'll send you're like five percent CPU and all the rest of it is actually for the processing power of the interaction you're having the sales call, you're on the conversation, you're in the you know, the interview, you're doing whatever. Well, and it all goes back to me. The people buy from people. So if you're absorbed with the negativity, right, people sense that, whether you're whether you're, you know, putting it out there or not. Yeah, people tuned into that. It's almost yeah, my mom used to call it the hum right. Yeah, Hum's weird. Right, their vibrations off. It's a little maybe to touch you feeling for me to buy the day people, you know, it's out there. You, people will tune into that. So if you approach someone authentically and from a positive place and completely in the moment, completely there, that's a hell of a lot more powerful than, like you said, if if you've got eighty percent of yourself processing, yeah, crap that you're telling your yeah, well, it's usually bring that up because one of the things I think about a lot is that for years and years and years, my my mode, for lack of a better term, of trying to help people. Right. So, so my intentions have always been positive. Want people to get better. I want people to sell more, to earn more, to feel a better whatever, right, so my intentions are positive, but in the moment, right in that interaction, I was in judgment of them. They are broken needing to be fixed. They aren't doing it right. You know, I need to make them, you know, show how to feel better. So so the fundamental dynamic, regardless of your of your you know, orientation towards them, even if you're trying to trying to be helpful, is non acceptance. Right, it's judgment, it's blame. What have you now for years? You know, I could go into a room, I know. Problem is, as I know, you don't go into room of forty season sales folks and going toetote with them. Right, and I could push and I kind of I'm moving my hands and as I think about it, but you know, I could use my energy to convey, to push to them what it is. You know, I thought they needed to know to improve whatever. Well, that works. The problem is it's limited by, you know, how strong you are. To use from a metaphor, the other thing is it's exhausting. Right, I come aout training sessions, I've come out of working with teams where we got where we needed to be. But I feel like I can hit by a truck, right, and and and and and one day, you know, probably probably around that same time, I'm like, I'm drawing the sticks are going to board. I had two people and I kind of drew this this Arrow of me pushing the other and I was like, what what happened if I flip that around? What would happen if I started with zero judgment that they're not doing it right and absolutely absolute acceptance that where they are is where they're supposed to be? Right, and I'm going to I'm going to slip this to to actual selling in a minute, but at least for the metaphor of training, what this allowed me to do was to help, which is what I wanted to do, vastly more people at a much less cost to my own energy. Now let's take this, you know, down to the selling area, because I know a lot of your listeners or sales people, sales leaders, think about how we wake up every day. Right, it's we have a product that solves a problem. My nerd customers have it. We have to find them, we have to tell what's the problem, to convince me a problem and get him a change. Dude, that's exhausting, right, and it creates resistance, right, because if I push on you right, well, you got to push back, right. That's that's a lot of physics. People opposite reaction. If, from a mindset standpoint, we actually woke up and...
...said, you know what, I'm not trying to solve a problem for somebody who's broken. I have a solution that could help somebody if they wanted to achieve something right, and the chances of that person opening up, sharing with me being really, really, you know, open and intimate about what's going on drop exponentially based on the DREDA which I'm trying to find a problem. Right. So it's almost like this weird paradox. If I go looking for a problem to solve, people hide it, right, and I I've practiced this in real life when it when I walk into a client, they go, well, how can you help me? You know my answers. Typically, you don't need to be helped. You're fine where you're at. You actually here, you made it, you're not dead. Maybe the some place you want to be. Let's talk about that. Right. I'm not looking for a problem, trying to put something on. I'm starting from certainly the mindset of but also all the behaviors that say you are exactly where you're supposed to be, there's no other place you could be, which sounds really simple and basic, but what it does is it creates an environment where the other person is drawn right by that acceptance to say, well, actually, let me tell you what I'd like to do better, what I'd like more of, what it liked less of, etc. which is the essence of solution selling what I can solve a problem that the prospect doesn't believe they have. Right how, how much energy do we, as sales people, typically spend just trying to convince them they have a problem? But I think about how sdrs call up, how sales people call of Hey, I'm calling because you need this, and Blah, blah, blah. You're literally creating the resistance that is wearing you down right, and that that whole mindset in then it's opting process behind that and technique behind that, but it really starts with mindset of not waking up thinking you've got to go convinced, feel they have a problem and then solve a form. What if you actually woke up said, you know, I'm going to talk to business people who have somehow made it through their life who have had success. You know they they get themselves to work, they put their pants on, their shoes and all that stuff. So wherever they are right is is okay. Yes, maybe there's something better, but you don't start to make friends and you don't certainly start to create conversations by walking around telling everybody you know, this is your problem, you need to do this better, this is wrong. Right, if you start by saying, wow, let's talk about what's going well, right, it's amazing what come backs to come, comes back to you. Well, on that acceptance, right, that that ability to accept, because I think everybody. Doesn't mean we're especially. We're especially. If you look around today, there's a lot of judgment going on. Right, yeah, and everybody does it in their day to day life. Sometimes, again, they're aware of it or you're not. But if you approach somebody with acceptance and no agenda other than hey, this you, we're where we need to be. We're both sitting here having a conversation. Where do we both want to go from here? That's a lot more powerful than hey, did you realize that every other CFO in your space is losing their job because x, Y and Z, you know what I mean, try and write all the problem down their throat. That just instantly pushes them back on their heels. It doesn't make you their friend. But I'm yeah, but you're right. But unfortunately, that's what oftentimes, marketing is telling us. Is our value proposition, right, this is our messaging. You know, we're told we have to go find stuff or we're going to be in trouble, right, and so it becomes hard and harder for us to trust right, that just talking to people and, you know, getting to know them and having a conversation about those stuff they care about will yield openings. Right, and this gets back to the concept of fear. I don't want to go out and just have a conversation with somebody, but fear tells me while, but if the conversation doesn't go the right way, well, then you won't close a deal. And then what happens? You don't close a bunch of deals, you can get fired or you'll go out a business or, you know, people think you're stupid or whatever. One of the reasons I and I said I'm kind of withdrawn from Linkedin as because it's been a great experience, you know, particularly last year learning to drive traffic and doing a lot of stuff with that. But it is such a rife environment for I'll call it non dialog, right, it's just people shooting opiniions at each other. Right, I'll put something...
...up and say, Hey, I've a real concerned that. You know, the str function, by way of example, is, you know, losing it's it's it's usefulness. Right, it's coming to the you know, sort of diminishing returns curve of how effective it can be. And I you know, it's a genuine concern. Well, sure enough, three people pop on and start saying you're an idiot. You obviously I've never made cold calls, you know. What the Hell do you know? And I'm hum but I'm not sitting here on a mountain, you know, Burnie incense and saying home right, I throw down and get into it with them. No, you know, I'm talent and I'm awesome. You need to know what I'm like, Dude. I don't not want to play that game. So it's it really is something that is so pervasive in our world. This, you know, we stop having conversations very quickly right on Linkedin in the supermarket on the freeways. You know, we're all like squared off or ready to start, you know, throwing punches at a moment's notice. Well, it's any right, it's and it's a weird it's a weird situation right. I mean and culturally, socially, right now things are a little bit more tense than I can remember them being, not that the right tense before, but more tense than I I personally can remember in my forty four years. And then you put that into a sale situation where, you know, you start to see organizations where, instead of doing, you know, forecasting for quotas and targets from the ground up, you have a board who said yes, Hey, I need twenty five percent, go figure it out, and so then you're totally putting together complaints and targets. You know people are going to hit. So it's no surprise that the stats show you that only fifty three percent of reps are hitting quota right. And so then that that just starts to feed itself. So the ability of the individual to have the power, yeah, the the the strength and character to put up those boundaries and say no, wait, I'm going to accept the people that I'm working with. I'm going to accept the situation that I'm in and I'm going to look for a way to get to where I want to be rather than worry about how I got where I am. Amen. Yeah, I mean, I one of the things that really it kind of breaks my heart is you've got, you know, thousands, maybe tens or hundreds of thousands of sales folks who go home thinking they suck. Right, I didn't make my quote. I'm not I'm not getting it done. It's like, no, you're not. I mean, talk about a canvas for fear to paint on. Right, it's like board board set, unreasonable quotas, you know, the CEO has to has to drive it down to get their bonus. The VP of sales is free to get fired, you know, and then the sales manager flogs every week. You know what, what did you do? And everybody, from the top down, it is going, you know, if I don't do this, I'm going to fail, I'm going to be out of a job, I'm going to never get another job. Everything to hate me and know how it's going to leave me whatever, and it just it's such a rife environment and, to be honest, it's it's really difficult, or can be difficult, in that ecosystem, in that environment, to return yourself to peace, right, and that that really is where I've chosen spend the majority of my time now until, you know, hopefully, I Croak, and that is showing people that it is possible be standing there, you know, amidst all this craziness, all this stuff going on, all this agitation, politics, you know, economy, world, whatever, and to still find that spot that says, Oh, I'm a piece like you can still have that. It doesn't it has nothing to do with your circumstances, right, and that's that's sort of if, if I could have everybody here, like one thing is the biggest lie we're told is how we feel. Right, our mood, our mode, our motions depend on our circumstances. Right. That's that's the biggest lie you've been told, because it's not true. Right, you can be in any environment, any shit storm, and find a way to return to peace. Now, it's still may be unpleasant, right, you know, I'm not interesting, homeless or broke or whatever, but I know that peace is possible there and from that place of peace all your energy moves from trying to deal with the circumstances and just just just live in those circumstances to what am I going to do next? That's going to, you know,...
...put me in the better place, right, and that that really is, to me, what's important. It's just that reallocation of energy. It doesn't magically transform your circumstances, but it gets give you a different set of tools and a different, you know, mindset, to go back to that word, to say, okay, well, what am I going to do? Whereas most people are perspective. It's the power perspective. You can shift your own perspective, but you're told, I mean, we're inundated all of the time with all of this crap, right, whether it be from job or you got personal challenges. I mean, I'm probably singing my own Gospel because twenty seven, ten just kind of really yeah, if a year could have kicked me in the nuts, two thousand and seventeen did it. But I'm you have a choice every moon when you win it up, and and that is a it is a powerful perspective, is a powerful aware just have, and I've seen it scare people too. It's terrifying, right, because you know, imagine this, you wake up tomorrow and you know for sure that you have, you know, the personal power to change your circumstances, change your your mindset. Well, for the first like thirty seconds like yeah, this is awesome, and then you go wait, I got nobody else to blame. Right, you're you're kind of screwed a little bit, because now everything is yours. Right, and that, and that is, that is the thing that you know, I would say fear puts up as the biggest reason not to take that step right, because, man, it feels really good to blame others, to you know, not take I mean, I'm just being honest. Right, I do it. You know, sometimes I couldn't make that call because this happened or I'm feeling like this, and and then you have to kind of go back and say, wait a minute, that that's not true. I know that's not true, but man, it feels good sometimes kind of pull that they did this to me card right. It's like it's like, you know, it's like this this amazing, you know special, special addictive juice that we get from blaming others, from from judging others right, because nothing feels better than saying well, at least I'm not like him right. And when you stop, well, when you take away the ability to to point anybody else or stay a different when you say I own everything in my world. Well, there's a lot of great stuff, but man, there's there. There's a big hill called what I'm going to do when I really want to point it somebody else and not have to take responsibility, because that's that really is fun sometimes. That's really honest. Right, it's easy, it's easier. You don't have to any self reflection, you don't have to do any work, you don't have to admit that you're flawed or you're not. Yeah, there, yeah, it's you're right. It's totally extremely easy to point the finger. So all right. So, out of respect for time, if you were talking to sales up today and you gave them they wanted to know the three things that you thought were most important for them to understand to be able to shift their mindset, what would those three things be? Oh Wow, that's a good one. Um, first one, to sound cheesy and then against myself, the first thing I want to say to folks is everything is gonna be okay, like literally, everything is going to be okay. You know, and I started in my mind. When you ask that, I'm I'm picturing a lot of the the younger folks are coming into sales, because that's old, grizzled guys don't care anyway. But uh, you know what I see so much as this incredible pressure that that's put on them. They put on themselves to get it right. People like well, you're are you such successful? I'm like, you know why? Because I've screwed more crap up than you could possibly imagine, like my my trail of wreckage and relationships and clients is just it's amazing. So it's going to be okay. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. And then the last one is learn, educate, absorb. Right, don't go into work every day and just do what anybody tells you. Right, you have to do that. They're gonna they're going to say, okay, here's the script and go get the demo. That's fine. Do What your boss tells you to do, but allocate, I don't care if it's an hour a day, you know, or half an hour day to reading blogs where, you know, read my stuff, read your stuff, read Gary Vaner, check, read some you know, flufy crap that I can I can, you know, recommend to your readers, etc. But spend...
...time absorbing other people's ideas, because that's what's going to make the impact. Overtime, not social media. Not, sorry. dialoging and commenting and reading idiots like me on Linkedin does not make you a smarter person. Right, it makes you a good argue or right. So find people who have done stuff, people you don't do, you know you don't agree with, and consume their stuff. So ever thinks to be okay, make a ton of mistakes and stop beating yourself up about it and then figure out how to just keep a constant queue of learning. You do get get off social media, get off Instagram, get off Snapshat, all that crap that is draining your energy and taking you away from now, right, all these social media outlets, they're not helping you. They are taking me away from this moment, right here, right now, because this moment, right here, right now, is all there is. Right, what your buddies doing and you know to bet or what somebody doing a vacation last week doesn't mean crap. Right. It's all about now. It doesn't right. I know cat video is not going to change tomorrow. Now, it doesn't end. It is it is like heroin I used put in your vage, really good but doesn't do anything. So I guess those are my three excellent so times that if people are interested and get in touch with you, since you're not as active on Linkedin. Yeah, that's the best way to get to Aldie to talk more about these concepts. Yeah, well, if you it's kind of issue. If you go to Linkedin, I've changed my headline to I think it says so long linkedin. It's been real but but, but my emails there and my email and how even my cell phone number is is in my is in my profile. Right. If there's something somebody needs or wants, shoot me an email, right. I mean you can literally find it there. My website is towns and ward lawcom. That's pretty much all sales stuff, but I also do a lot of posting on on a if your folks are familiar with medium. But if you go to mediumcom there's actually the freedom from fear project. is where I do most of my writing on there. But either way, just hit me up on Linkedin and I can point you to do a bunch of resources. Both sales. I literally have like hundreds of videos and articles and craft. That's free, and then I got all this other new fangled new AG bullshit as well. So excellent. With towns, I can't thank you enough for taking time to be on the show. It's been great. Thank you, man. Appreciate it all right, everyone that does it. For this episode, check us out of Bob Rev exactcom share the episode of Friends, Family's CO workers. Continue to feed your head, as Townsend says, and until next time we have value prime solutions. Wish you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.
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