The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Todd Handy on Outsourcing Your Sales Efforts

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

At some point, every company has to consider what type of a sales team they will use. Outsourcing sales can benefit companies by not only improving ROI, but by providing a core competency in something that a business might not have.

We recently sat down with Todd Handy, Vice President and Managing Director of Digital Media and AdTech at MarketStar, to discuss why companies consider outsourcing.

You were listening to the BDB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketingteams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three,two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience.I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about outsourcingyour sales efforts, and to help us do that, we have with USTodd Handy, VP and managing director at Market Star. Todd, thank youvery much for taking time to be on the show today. Thanks chat.It's my pleasure. So we always start with a kind of off the wallquestion. If you look back over your career, and this can be businessor personal, tell us a little bit about yourself what you decide to share. We're looking for a defining moment, something that you go back to timeand time again, maybe change the trajectory of your career, lessons that you'velearned kind of what was that moment and what did you learn from it?Wow, that's that's an easy one for me to think through and come upwith. I think that there are really two types of folks in the salesarena. There are those who set out specifically to go into sales because theythought they saw something about it, they lay like or they thought their personalitylent itself to it, and then there are those who often times find themselvesmore accidentally in sales. I'm more of the ladder than the former. Ihave training background and I had done a lot of training and I had donegeneral management as well, but I had never really considered sales. Wasn't surethat I wanted to be that sales guy and so forth, because I equatedthe bad side of of our industry with that use car salesman and so forth. Right I felt like sales was was not what I wanted to do.And a few years into my my professional career and opportunity rose and my bosssaid, Hey, I'd like you to manage this sales team and I said, well, I'll tell me why, and we talked about that and andshe gave all the reasons why she thought that it was a great fit.And so I got involved in that and what I learned very quickly was thattraining is all about educating and sales, frankly, is all about educating aswell. If it's done right, of course we need to close, weneed to write up the ticket, we need to ring the cash, reddistor everything else. But what we know from a sale standpoint is if we'renot educating our prospects on what we do and what the product does, aswell as what value it will bring to them and some x factor, right, they're going to pay some number and they're going to have a multiplier onthat that they will expect to see as a return. So that would probablybe the thing that was most eye opening to me was that what I haddone and had been doing really didn't have to change because it was educating.was just in a different arena that I was educating well that that's an interestingtransition, right, because I've seen a lot of sales people go the otherdirection that that think, because they can sell, they can train. I'mkind of on the fence on that one. But coming the other direction you hadto there had to be as so many similaries that it didn't feel toouncomfortable, I would assume. No, it really didn't feel uncomfortable and andyou know, if you think about it. Your sales collateral is not much differentthan your training man or what you hand out to your training classes toenable them to understand what it is you're going to discuss today or tomorrow,or to break things down in manageable chunks. And that was clearly way before thedistributed training that we have now in the technology and so forth. Butyeah, it didn't seem all that foreign to me. Clearly, I hadto learn a lot of vernacular and I had to learn some different stages andso forth that maybe weren't necessarily laid out just like training, but it wasinteresting for me to go through that journey al and for our listeners now,can you give them a little context around...

...market star in your role? They'resure some market star next year will celebrate thirty years in business, which inand of itself is quite an anomaly. Most businesses don't make it that long. The company is in the outsourced channel and direct sales and marketing industry,and what that means basically is this company's fire us to do sales and marketingfor them, either in the partner channel to tier distribution and through Vars anddistributors and system integrators and so forth. Or in a direct motion, andthat could be direct sales, phone sales. It's also field sales, and thenwe have several ancillary rolls around that. We have lead generation on the frontend, we have account management on the back end. And over thelast little while, and in my role within market star, is to buildout our business unit, which is in the direct space, but it's ourdigital media and our attack business unit. So the history of market star wasin it see, high tech and so forth, so the intels and ciscosand HP's and others of the world. And over the last little while andand now especially as we're putting this business unit together, it's more ebay andpinterest and add roll that are coming on, and so we're adding to this historythat we've had within it see and high tech. We're bringing in digitalmedia attack as well to leverage all of the things that we've done from asales standpoint and processes and everything else to help those clients who also can useour help. So helpe. That explained it. My wife and kids arestill sometimes now exactly what is it that you do? So yeah, I'veheard that question to so when, when and why should a company consider outsourcingtheir cells seem. I mean there there are sales exacts out there that wouldcringe at that, at that thought, and I be curious, also asa following the fun out kind of what kind of pushback you get. Butlet's start with when and why should a company consider outsourcing their sales efforts?Yeah, yeah, you would think. As a sales guy, my answerwould be they should always do so, and they should and they should doit right now. But the truth is, outsourcing isn't necessarily for everyone, andso the best way that I could say that you could look at itis outsourcing is basically asking someone who has a core competency in something that maybeyou don't have a core competency and to do that for you, or withyou, if you will. And so if this is a company that hasnailed their sales processes and they are meeting all of their Kpis and they're clearingall of their inventory and everything else, there probably isn't as much of arole for outsourcing unless they feel like they can get some cost savings. Maybethey can move to a lower cost geography or a delivery model that lends itselfto lower costs, or maybe they just don't want to have the fixed expensesanymore. That really would be maybe the only thing that someone who has absolutelynailed their sales would say would be a reason they would do it. ButI think we would all agree that most of us have never worked at acompany where we've nailed all our sales. Subject it's exactly as going to sayas like, so then everybody should because I don't. Well, well,yeah, and I don't mean that to sound facetious or flipp flipping there therewill definitely be times when it doesn't make sense to outsource. But the answerto the question, then, it really is when the company feels like itdoesn't have that core competency, or it doesn't feel like it has the abilityto scale, or it doesn't feel like it's as innovative or as good atdelivering the sales in a specific model, or whatever the case. Maybe it'sfor those companies who say, would we...

...like to save some cost? Yeah, there can definitely be cost savings. Sometimes it's not necessarily a cost saving, but it's a greater Roi because we or another outsourcer maybe are close tothe same in the cost, but we deliver, you know, one xthree x x, whatever the x factory is of sales so they get abetter roy so it's is sales core to you, or is there's something aboutwhat you're trying to do that you can't scale or you can't deliver maybe theway you would want to? Or probably the easiest example is simply a lotof times the company is really good at the enterprise but maybe doesn't know midmarket and doesn't know how to access SMB. And we cover all of those,but we've really done a lot over the years in augmenting sales teams inmid market in SMB, which those companies either don't have an interest in doingthemselves but they know that they can get incremental revenue so forth. So it'sless about the the size of the deals that they're going after, say we'reif you know if they're targeting enterprise versus SMB. It's really more about whetheror not they consider sales and revenue generation cord or whether bring into the party. I think that's a really good way to put it. And and Ithink they also have to be honest with themselves, because I think everyone wouldsay, oh, we're good at doing this and if you're a product companysometimes you're not. We Are Services Company and so I would be the firstto say if we try to build a physical product, we would probably fail. That's not what we do, and so it does require little bit,a bit of introspection on the part of the executive sponsor and whoever else ismaking the decision as to whether or not that's something that they feel would begood for them. And so what about length of sales cycle and complexity,as it makes sense if you're doing a more I don't want to say transactions, I don't honestly believe. I don't believe that's going to make a lotof sense. But let's say if it's a six weeek versus of eighteen monthsales cycle, does one lend itself to outsourcing sales over the other, orare you set up to handle both? Yeah, so I think I thinkthe answer is we're. We, and probably all other outsources are set upto handle both of those. That really is going to depend on what levelof patients the company WHO's outsource seen has. If it is an if it's aneighteen month sales cycle, honestly, it may take us eighteen months tolearn whether or not we're being as effective as it was. We want tobe because of by the nature of the of the sale cycle right now.When I say that again, I don't mean it's all facetious, but that'sno different than the company if they have a captive themselves, if they havean eighteen month sales cycle and they hire todd to do sales for them andhe looks like everything is going great until month sixteen when something falls apart thatyou wouldn't have known it till months sixteen. That requires patients and so that probablywould be a little bit more difficult. But at the same time you're goingto expect, for an eighteen month sales cycle a very high price pointand probably some very great margin dollars, and so you probably have the appetitefor that. But I think something that would be in a shorter sales cycle. With digital media that's going to be ninety, two hundred and twenty dayssales cycle. But there are others, cloud services providers that we work withwhere it takes a lot less time. It's a it's a month trial andonce you've tried it it's okay, let's scale your company and so forth.So it's going to be partly the patients level that the client has with regardto when they want to see the the return, or at least the movement, the ramp, if you will, and then it's also going to dependon what that sale cycle is, what the ticket price is and how quicklyyou can show ramp to revenue. Okay. And so can you give us anexample of metrics or results you've generated...

...for clients to kind of give usa little bit more context on kind of the Roy yeah, so, forfor one of our large it high tech clients, we have four years carrieda one billion dollar plus quota. That's a quota that we bear, thatwe are responsible for. For several of our other clients we bear quotas inthe hundreds of millions of dollars. And was that? So sorry interrupt,but not all. That's amazing. So a billion dollar quota. So arethey do they also have internal sales or are they outsourcing one hundred percent ofit to you guys? Know, in that case they would have internal salesas well. So then they treat your entire organization essentially as a wrap,I would think, with a billion dollar quota. Yeah, basically, althoughit's never quite that simple. That's true, I think, because because that thatthat billion dollars might be made up of multiple statements of work with multiplelines of business and so forth, and so there would be a lot ofdifferent stakeholders and so forth, and it would be multiple teams within within marketstar. But yeah, in in almost every case we carry a quota ofsome kind that we're held responsible for and we are working to deliver against that, knowing that that quota has certainly been set by that client to provide whatevertarget Iroy that they're looking for. Okay, and is and is it better?I like the different types of roles. Right, we've gotten to this pointin sales where I think it's a little bit ridiculous how segmented we've madethe profession. But is it easier to outsource sturs versus account exacts, versusaccount managers? You know, I mean you said you touch them all,but from your experience, is there one that seems a little quicker to Roifor a customer? Yeah, I think I think the clear answer there isinside sales, because it has a specific dollar amount associated with it and youcan tie it directly to the close of that sale. It's a little moredifficult with a lead development rep, to tie it directly to that because,although that rep was the one who generated the sales, acceptedly that became theopportunity, that became the close. There are those who are going to argue, listen, all you had to do is tee it up and then thesalesperson had to actually close it, overcome the objections, do all the hardwork right and and on the other end of the the equation the account manager, once the seller is done with it. In many motions, the seller closesthe deal, hands it over to an implementation team or an at operations, to and digital media or whatever the case may be for that vertical andthen it gets implemented and then someone needs to manage it from there on out. And you could argue that this account manager, managing a five million dollarongoing annual revenue account, let's say, is really great for doing that.But the seller would say, yeah, if I hadn't landed that, youwouldn't be managing it. So it we we've definitely done a really good jobof better segmented, to your point, the the sales motions and how thatall works. But everyone will have a way that they can land claim topart of that and on the other side where you can refute that they reallywere the ones that brought that revenue. So I think I would have tosay inside sales is probably the one where you can tie that most directly toit. Well, I'll tell you, having having built and run sales teamsfor several organizations, there's a lot of there would have been a lot ofvalue to me in you handling the BS that happens between Susdurs, account exactand account managers, because that in fight. It used to be it was justsales against marketing. Now we've got all these roles and SDRs. Well, you wouldn't have got the deal if I didn't set the meeting and theyhe's like, well, if I'd enclosed the account manager having to look allof those things. I've done them all,...

I've managed them all. They alltake a level of professionalism and discipline and focus. So everybody's stop,stop rewinding. I'm obviously not a very patient individual. This is so thevalue to me and outsourcing my sales would have been just coming to you andsaid, Hey, todd, here's what I need. You deal with thepersonalities, because I really want to focus on the business right, right,well, and and and, frankly, that's where a lot of clients findthemselves, where they simply say, listen, we we are good at what we'regood at, and we've heard from referrals that you are good at whatyou're good at, and so we know that you've got processes and systems andall of the connective tissue and everything else, and so let us be good atwhat we're good at and let you be good at what you're good at. I mean we we have eighty seven percent of our clients come from referrals. Oh Wow, excellent. And so how do you on board? SoI mean if you guys outsource sales and you've got a sales exact one ofthe I think one of the things that would get my attention running a teamwould be okay, this is what you focus on, this is what you'regood at. So help me understand how you on but how you determine whoyou're going to hire, how you on board them, how you make surethat you're running the you know, top tier sales organization that other people shouldtap into instead of going through the slog of trying to build themselves what areyou doing that helps create that that differentiation between, you know, build itversus by it right? Well, that's that's really where the rubber hits theroad, because if we don't select the right folks and don't train them properly, then the ramp to revenue is either slower or nonexistent or whatever the casemay be. And so we work very diligently to make sure that we're assolid as we can be in the sourcing in and the hiring. We're intwo thousand and eighteen. One of one of my most strategic initiatives, andfrankly it is with my peers as well and the other business units, isto do an even better job of implementing predictive analytics to help us in completelyunderstand where someone will be successful. So if I take a look at mystar sellers on in a certain line of business and I do some regression analysisand I use some tools with some predictive analytics and so forth, and putall of that together and it says, okay, you've interviewed todd and basedon Todd's answers and based on its resumes and experience and based on the profilethat we've built of him. We have a high confidence level that he'll dowell in this job. That helps us so much more than the way allof us were raised, which is you look at the resume. Is Oursales? Is Our sales on their resume. There's not throw it out and thenall there is sales on there as May. So put it over hereand then, and then who's been selling the longest? Who says they hadpresidents club, all those kinds of things. Right, I'll be the first tosay, and I think most people agree, I'm not a hundred percenton hiring. I've made some bad hiring decisions, and so that's where toanswer the question. We need to do a better job and that's one ofthe things will be doing in two thousand and eighteen with a strategic initiative ofgetting better predictive analytics and a better confidence interval and the folks that we're hiringand then training them so we have a pretty pretty well rounded and robust curriculumfor sales in general. Right, so how do you sell? How doyou overcome objections? How do you get past the gatekeeper? How do youdo all of the things to manage your pipeline and how do you nurture thosethings that are one on one? For sales, of course, but thenwe have to layer on to that something from the client, because we're notthem, we're not good at their specific piece of business. I may havemany people who sell digital media, but they might not sell digital media forx client, and so I need their insight or high tech or whatever.So we've got a really great curriculum and...

...we put them through this robust curriculumto get them ready for sale selling and then we have to layer on allof the features, functions, benefits, pricing processes, everything else that theclient brings. Meld all that together, hit the floor and start figuring outwhat we're doing right and doing wrong and make iterations. And is there aspecific sales methodology that you guys invested and believe and teach the sales repstors?It's something you guys developed internally. You. Yeah, so we follow methodology calledAOAR. Activities, objectives results. There's a book called cracking the SalesManagement Code that speaks a lot to that and it is a methodology that weare working to infuse throughout our organization. And it's simply is that you workwith your reps to understand those activities which lead to certain objectives, which leadto the results that are necessary. Most of the time we know results.is going to be a quoted, it's going to be reveling or something,because that's the end. I'll be all then we're going to work back fromthere. So we're going to say twelve calls per day or thirty calls perday, based on, you know, if it's transactional, wherever the casemay be, and twenty emails and whatever activities whatsoever. Those are going togo up to the next level that are going to lead to DM conversations,decision maker conversations, or proposals or pitches or whatever you deem to be yourobjectives, which are then going to lead up to be your results. Andso within this aoar framework we have a system that the manager can sit downwith the REP and and look at the results over a specified period and seehow they're doing on the a's, the Os, the ours. If it'sred, obviously we're below. If it's green, where there or above.But then the REP can also say, okay, if I were to changethis number of calls that I had in the last week, if I hadX and I put another fifty percent on top of that. I type inthis new number, they see a cascade upwards. It says, okay,this would have led to that many more pitches, which would allow to thatmuch more revenue based on an established close rate, and so forth. Andso everyone has a different methodology and there's value in every one of them,and there are also certainly ways that you can game systems and so forth,but we feel like this helps us to focus on ultimately the results and notso much with the seller saying, why are you micromanaging me? What?I'm not micromanaging you. I'm just saying that if you're not making enough calls, it doesn't lead to enough DM conversations and it just doesn't lead to enoughrevenue. Rights also paid for doing nothing. Yeah, I'm not. I'm notmicro managing, I'm not micromanaging your calls. I'm expecting results and thisis what the results are required to be based on what our client is requiringfrom us. And so let's figure out what level down here of a's isgoing to lead to what level of those to meet the number of ours thatyou need. And so in that type of approach and outsourcing. You guyswork with a bunch of different clients. Do you find it easier to recruitan attract, let's say raw talent, let's say younger, younger people thatare, you know, putting their first toe in the water and sales,or, you know, those ultra high performers who maybe don't to sell thesame thing for the next thirty years? They prefer the variety of the differentclients as you guys bring to the table. Is there? Do you see iteasier to attract, indoor train those different types of individuals? So I'dlove to give you the definitive answer. It becomes the consulting answer. OfIt depends, and here's here's here's why it depends, because we work withsuch disparate clients in different industries. There...

...isn't a specific right or wrong.But here's what I can tell you, maybe in general, and and thatis this. Over this a last little while, in discussions with a lotof my managers, I've heard a lot of them saying that they're looking lessand less for people who have years and years of sales experience because they feellike when those folks come on board they're less flexible, they have their wayof doing things and they're not open to new ways of doing them, whereaswhen they look at folks who have less sales experience but they've got good customerservice experience or something demonstrable that they're more flexible, that they're more coachable andwilling to to learn, and so forth. Again, that's where the IT dependscomes in, because if it's back to your earlier point about an eighteenmonth sales cycle, that's probably a very technical sale, it's probably a veryhigh ticket sale and you might need folks who have years of experience in thatindustry to come in. If it's a lower sales cycle, lower price point, a little more transactional, where you're going to burn in through a lotof those, then you can probably afford to have someone who can learn onthe job a little bit more, quote unquote, to get where you needto be. So that's where the IT depends comes in. And, andI guess it's not surprising, I mean doing sales and ablement sales training.I always like having the I call in the crusty old guys in the backof the room. Now I am one of those guys actually. When Ifirst got trained I was that guy in the back of the room like,why the Hell Am I in here? But those, those guys do havea lot of value. But I wonder if that comes more is more resultof the way sales has been historically and the way they came up through salesand the fact that now all this technological change that we've seen, you know, in the BTC space and across marketing and sales stacks and all of thetext acts and all that stuff is creating the need for a much more fluidtype of sales professional. Is that something you guys are talking about internally orI've come up against? So you know, it's interesting because the last eight,nine, ten years of my career have been in the in the mediaspace, and this has been an ongoing discussion and media, especially in localmedia. So think newspaper Radio to TV. Newspaper was disrupted early on and hasbeen struggling. TV has stood the test of time a little bit better, but it's starting to be disrupted by Youtube and Hulu and Netflix and soforth, and one of the biggest debates that rages in local media is doyou take your legacy sellers and do you give them digital to sell as well, when we know that some of them don't know digital all that well,don't care about digital, they're passionate about the media they've sold and maybe don'twant to learn the new trick. Or do you take completely brand new digitalfolks who are good at digital and sell those but who don't have the accountrelationships and who don't have the entree into the the big spanners and so forth? That has raged for quite some time and there's camps on both sides ofthat in the same thing plays out here as well, where, yeah,we definitely need the folks who have the tribal knowledge, if you will,the crusty old folks who can bring some of that to the table, butwe also need the adaptability and flexibility. And then there are crusty old guyswho can be flexible and there are brand new, brand new folks who areinflexible. Right, if we could just hire an entire way of folks andthey all look the same, that'd be great, but unfortunately it's a peoplemanagement business and everyone is a little bit different. Yeah, and it Imean did the day. People buy people and some people are willing to makethe changes necessary to stay current and up to date and others aren't. Imean, I think some of that's just pure human behavior type of stuff.It's it's always been an interesting question for me because, having run sales teamsand and built them, I always found myself trying to stay away from myown internal bias of I don't want to have to teach this person from theground up. But just like you said,...

...there's headaches on both sides of that. It's like, what type of person are you? Is Really,I think, the key to that equation. Yeah, I think. I thinkwe look at someone who doesn't fit our target resume and say, yeah, they're not worth my time because I need to get ramped to revenue reallyquickly. But then we fail to realize that by bringing in the folks whohave been doing this for quite some time and who won't bend themselves to ourwill or our processes or whatever, that we probably ultimately end up taking maybethe same amount of time, maybe not, but over the long term we endup maybe with folks who can't be flexible when new products come on orwhen new sales methodologies come on or whatever. You can fall on either side ofthose and there's going to be an argument for and against each of those, but that's where we try to fit the right profile with the right clientbased on what the job is. And obviously, even within that you knowthe hunters and farmers and that whole methodology and everything else. Well, andthen so in terms of the trends of outsourcing sales teams, are you familiarwith it? I know I'm totally catching you off guard here because this Idid not put this in the notes when I said it to you, butthis is done on me. Have you seen swarm SALESCOM? Have you seenso the website? So I'm not familiar with swarm salescom. I'm familiar withthe swarm methodology within agile and that almost lends itself to what that might be. But no, you didn't put it in the notes. Now you've mademe look bad and so I've said. I've said I don't know anything aboutit, so educate me. Well, it's just it's interesting, right,and it's a it's a company, company out of Minneapolis that they just launched, I want to say earlier this year, but essentially it's like a clearinghouse forcompanies that want to go out. Like I'm trying to think of.The last one I saw was the company that sells art to hotels to putin the hotel rooms will put a contract up on swarm sales or a sitelike that, and then sales reps can and it'll tell you it's worth,you know, thirty five percent of the commission or Forty Percent Commission, whateverit is, and then sales reps can like pull that down and go sellit, not without any of it, without any affiliation really to the company. I mean they're selling their product and stuff, but it's really kind oflike crowdsourcing your outsourced sales team. I'm, I'm mean, really curious to seehow that trend continues to evolve. I could see it being effective maybein really small scale transactional sales, but there are some sales up there thatare more be to be complex. I was just wondering if you've seen anythinglike that or run into that in that in the outsourcing arena. I'll behonest, I haven't necessarily seen that and there may be many of my colleagueswho have and would have been able to speak better to it than I amnow. But what that makes me think of is the thumb tax and thetask rabbits and the other of the world where where we've said, hey,let's let's get a handyman and let's put it out there and let's let peoplebid on it and let's get folks who will come in and do it andand I'm very much a fan of disruption, and so that has disrupted yellow pagesand online directories and so forth. But my guess would be I haven'tspent a lot of time in those companies, but my guess would be that thereis a lot of back end headache for those companies to make sure thatthey get people who are bonded, who are honest, who aren't going toscam their their customers and so forth. I mean there's always going to bethat. The same thing could be with with swarm sales or something else.You know, someone off sales here and there would be great if it doesn'trequire a lot of scale. If it's scales, now, is this guygoing to bring three of his friends who aren't necessarily well qualified just so hecan make the sale? I certainly am not saying that they're models bad.I'm a big fan of disruption, but I think all of that lends itselfto when you have new delivery methods, you also have new potential ways toGamer system and new necessity for quality checks and so forth. Well, andI think I mean you raise a really good point. The for me,for my personi would say the quality issue.

Right. So, okay, ifI'm a company, the sales reps or the company that I choose tooutsource my sales efforts to there an extension of my brand, there an extensionof my of the experience that I'm giving to my customers, and so workingwith somebody like market star makes a lot more sense because it is much morecollaborative. It's it. There's a quality check in there. You guys aremaking sure you're hiring the right sales reps, you're working with the customer. Theother the swarm sales thing doesn't make sense to me if you're worried aboutyour brand of the long term experience, because it seems to me to bemore like a contract hit like, you know, go back to the oldmafia days. Right, just seems it seems a little I don't know,maybe because I've been in sales so long, I got a chip on my shoulderabout people making fun of the sales profession, but it seems a littleeven slimy for their typical cliche. I mean, maybe it works and Icould believe in situations that it could, but if there are organizations out therethat are truly concerned about their brand and the sales experience that they're delivering,it would seem to me to make a hell of a lot more sense towork with a market star where they're invested in making sure they're representing your companythe correct way and the way you want to be represented. Actually, letme speak to that, because you got to where I was thinking in thatas well, and we both arrived at that same conclusion. Your earlier examplethe the Rep who wins the bid for the selling of the art to thehotels or whatever. Let's say all the the inventory gets cleared and let's sayit gets cleared at the price that that the the seller wanted. But yeah, if the brand got hurt in in the process, that's not good.I'm certainly not suggesting that that's what happens in that model, but I'll giveyou the market star version of that. So our folks are all dedicated tothe client that they work for. We don't have shared programs where half theday you're calling for this one, another half day you're calling for that oneand then tomorrow represent a different one. So first and foremost, our folksare living within the confines of that client and therefore they become experts at thatclient and its products and it's value propping everything else. But then the nextpart is when we are speaking to a customer and I'm on the line withthat customer and while I'm on the line he decides to look me up onLinkedin. On linkedin I've got the client name there at the client logo andthe client title there, because we don't need to have the friction of waita second, whose market starre and how do they fit into all of thisand everything else. The clients have US completely take on the persona of theircompany because we are they're paying us, they're training us, they are authorizingus to represent them, and so that helps a lot and you would notpossibly be willing to do that if you thought that we were going to Soleythe name or the brand or do something that would be detrimental. And soI think that's something that speaks to the value of working with someone from anoutsourcing standpoint who brings that knowledge and that security to the prospect as they say, Hey, I think I might want outsource with you. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I for me, especially when you look at some ofthe latest data and the reports state of sales reports, some sales worse lastyear, that concept of sales experience is becoming ever more increasingly important, especiallyin B tob and and working with an outsource firm. I could see howyou could control that. was something like this warms and again I don't needto pick on swarm says. There's probably other things out there and swarm sales, if you're listening, I'm happy to have a conversation about it. ButI just don't understand. I don't understand how a company that is truly concernedabout their brand and their their sales experience can control that. Maybe their ways, maybe it's built in, I don't know. Again, don't want tosell anybody's name. It just didn't make sense to me, but as wewere thinking about outsourcing sales and trends in that area, I was just curiousif you guys run into it. Well, here's the only thing that comes tomy mind is that's probably just yet another distribution channel. And so,you know, think of all of the discount retailers you can go to andyou can get Nike shirts for a lot...

...less than you can get at theNike storeage still the same Nike Shirt, right. Maybe it was bought bodyand you know, lots and sold off and so forth. It's just anotherdistribution strategy and a way to clear inventory. Maybe so, todd, what you'resaying is it's the outlet version of true sales. Kidding. Sorry.So, so I'm definitely, definitely going to get a hit put on me. Now, did you put that? That was my now is me.That was that's that's we don't. I like the I like the analogy ofthe distribution angle. I hadn't thought about it like that, but okay.So, anybody who's upside with todd, it was me that asked the question. So come after me on that one and again I'm willing. I'm willingto engage in the debate anytime. So let's change the direction here a littlebit. Towards the end of every interview, I asked two standard questions and Ias an executive from market star. That makes you a potential prospect forother people that are trying to sell services to market star. I'm curious fromyour perspective, somebody who doesn't know you, who believes they have a solution thatthat you might be interested in, what's the best way to capture yourattention, build credibility and get in front of you? I love that questionbecause the immediate answer that comes to my mind is that things not to do. Do not add me on facebook and then, a minute I accept it, just go to town on me right. I mean we all know that.We all know that I'm normally not going to accept your invitation. Everyonce in a while I try not to connect with anybody that I haven't actuallymet facetoface. Every once in a while I might because I think I mightwant to be connected with them, and more than fifty percent of the timeI get burnt the minute I accepted. Boom, hard sales pressure and soforth. So I would say that it is if you want to get attention. I'm buying all day long. We're all buying all day long. IfI have needs and you feel like you can fill that need, let meknow that, but get in front of me the right way. I'd muchrather have an email that will quickly set the hook and let me know whatis the opportunity and I will frankly respond and say, Hey, I wouldlike to know more or you know what, that's not my Bailey Wick. Letme forward it to someone else or simply know and and so that's thefirst part. Is just come at me direct but come at me very quicklyand succinctly. Maybe a couple of bullet points. Let me see what thereis there. Don't try to sell me in the first email. Frankly,don't try to sell me in the first phone call. But then if,if I show some interest, then yeah, let's set up a call and Iwill give you some time if I feel like the the the values are. It's a whole value exchange, right, it's it's is my time and yourtime is worth spending this together. So that's probably the the way thatI would answer it. Okay, and last question. We call it ouracceleration in sight. There's one thing you could tell a sales professional today thatyou believe if they actually heard you, and we could debate about sales people'sability to listen later, but if they actually listen to you, would makethem better tomorrow. What would it be and why? I think it wouldgo back to I think it was the first question you asked and in myresponse of I had spent a whole bunch of time in training and in generalmanagement and then wasn't sure about sales and found that there is a very closecorrelation between the two. I think if sellers can understand that asking more questionsis better than asking less questions. Obviously we want to ask the right questions, we want to ask them in the right way, we want to makesure that we're building credibility and we're not asking a question that was answered fiveminutes ago and showing that we're listening. Clearly we've got to check all thoseboxes, but I think, as sales stokes, too many times, we'remore interested in showing what we know then in understanding what the needs are.And so, you know, ask a couple more questions and you thought youshould, or ask a bonus question or...

...something, because the more we knowand the more we uncover, the better we can tailor that solution. Andby asking more questions I think we also open ourselves up to the prospect thatthey realize that we're not trying to be that guy or that Gal who arethe know it all? Who are you know? Sit Down, let metell you about my product and you're going to buy it. So I thinkI would tie it back to the very beginning and say that's probably one ofthe things that would multiply for a lot of sellers. Powerful point and muchappreciate it. So it's Todd I can't think enough for taking the time tobe on the show today. It's an absolute pleasure on my end. Iagain thank you for taking the time. That's my pleasure. Thanks so much. All right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please check usout at wwwvaccom. Share the episode of Friends, families, Co workers.If you like what you're here. Do his favorite. Leave this review onitunes and until next time, we have value prime solutions. With you all, nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executiveexperience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the showand Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening.Until next time,.

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