The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Tod Caflisch on The Minnesota Vikings Fan Experience (and Where It’s Headed)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Tod Caflisch has been in pro sports IT for almost 30 years, so he’s seen the incredible transformation in the fan experience at sports venues.

In college, he used to go to Celtics games, where the crowd was all men smoking cigars and cigarettes. Halftime would come, they’d play the organ, then the basketball game would finish. That was the fan experience of the day.

We’re light years from there today, with mobile integration and high-tech access control everywhere. The presentation of the game itself has changed dramatically, and everybody’s looking to up their game.

Listen in as Tod, Vice President and Chief Technical Officer with the Minnesota Vikings, describes how the team is taking fan experience to a new level. You’ll also hear the number one worst thing you could do when selling to someone like Tod.

Are you concerned about hitting your revenuetargets this month, quarter or year? Your answer is value prime solutions,a sales training and marketing optimization company leveraging the value selling framework. visit wwwdot value prime solutionscom and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BBrevenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales andmarketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or toolsand resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth inthree, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. Thanks for joining us today. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Ifyou're not able to listen to the entire show today, please visit the websitebe to be rev execom if find links to this conversation and interview, aswell as others we've conducted and content designed to specifically helped to be your targets. Today I'm excited to speak with Todd Kathlish, vice president chief technicalobster forthe Minnesota Vikings. I've had the pleasure to know and work with Todd forsome time and I think he's one of the most insightful executives I've had thepleasure of working with. His career in the high tech side and professional sportsranges from working with the San Antonio Spurs New Orleans Hornets to try red wingsand now the Vikings, were is deeply involved in not only all the technicalaspects of run in the French shows, but also the new US banks stadium. For those who haven't had a chance to check it out, highly recommendit, as well as the new multi use facility and headquarters. Two hundredeight years that is broken grounded in process taught us sincerely want to thank youfor taking the time to talk to us today and as we're getting ready forthis podcast, we decided to focus on fan experience, and so I reallykind of was a jumping off point. Love to just get your perspective onkind of the state of the fan experience and where you think it's headed.Well, thanks chat. I appreciate you having me on your podcast. Iam a real tech Geek when it comes to sports, so I love talkingabout it, so I will probably drone on at some point. Just tellme when to stop. But anyways, no fan experience. You know,I've been in pro sports it for almost thirty years and I've seen the transitionin fan experience and I can remember when I was at college I used togo to Celtics Basketball Games in Boston with my roommate and, you know,it was all men. They were all smoking cigars and cigarettes. You know, half time would come, they would they would play the organ and thenthe basketball game would finish. But it is come light year since then,you know, now to the point of all the mobile integration and all thehigh tech access control and video and and just, you know, the wholewhole whole Hoopla and the circus and in the presentation of the game itself.You know, there's a lot of competition...

...for the discretionary dollars that people spendon entertainment. So, you know, everybody is looking to up their gameall the time, you know, but fan experience is the key and youknow it's not necessarily a case of, you know, just keep doing more. You know, I mean Wi fi has become really, you know,an expected staple, you know, as fan demographics have changed. You know, I mean like I you know, the Celtics example I gave you knowa lot of teams, you know, have older demographics, you know asseason ticket holders, but those demographics are starting to shift more towards younger generations, a very, very mobile, integrated generations that, you know, expecttheir phones to work when they go and in the cases of a lot ofsporting and entertainment venues you know that haven't sort of kept up with that trendof, you know, having high density distributed antenna systems or Wi fi,fans have flat out total they are just not coming. You know, they'renot going to go some place that you know, their phone bricks and theirdisconnected so mnities, you know, like Wi fire. It's become an amenity, is an expectation and moving forward, mobile is going to even become moreof an element of the game experience and just the operations and how people,you know, enjoy the experience, whether it's, you know, watching replayvideo or it's augmented reality stats, it's, you know, fantasy gaming, it'stext to win type of you know gamification and competitions in the venues.So it's really kind of lending in leading that direction. But you know,it also really helps kind of maybe seeing that or seeing down the road withthe high mobile integration that you know, it also gives teams huge insight into, you know, how to connect with those fans and especially outside of thevenue or the event, so they can, you know, almost have regular touchpoints with those fans and season ticket holders. So it's a two waystreet. But everybody sort of latched on onto that, you know, forthe most part. One of the things that I really look for that I'veseen in a lot of postseason surveys as is making the experience frictionless. Yearafter year I've seen surveys, you know, everybody complains about the parking and thetraffic and things like that. So it's addressing those. I mean they'rethey're I think, probably most of the you know, the teams that areout there sort of leading the charge on tech integration and fan experience really arelooking more at, you know, what they would call the driveway to drivewayexperience, and it's literally from the time you leave home, leading you throughtraffic or avoiding traffic, you know, directly into a parking space, youknow that's even waiting for you, if...

...you know your systems are sophisticated enough. And then, you know, the mobile device helps guide you right inthrough a mobile ticket, through the gate entry of the event and then toyour seat or to your favorite concession or to help you find a bathroom,that kind of thing. It's the the problems in the challenges that people havethat are really the obstacles to fan experience. It's not always necessary the fact thatyou know they you don't have the right beer or the seats you knowaren't close enough to the stage or the court or field or whatever it's,but it's a lot of that. You know. It's the it's the kindof removed the pain in the ass factor thing, you know, and allthat kind of stuff. When we were talking in the past and we wereup by the US banks did him. It was interesting for me to seehow we've kind of you get to some point where digital and cell phones createddisconnects right between the fan and the experience. But we've gotten to a point,and we saw this when we were talking to the even the tailgators upthere. We're digital kind of creates a new level of table stakes. Likeyou have to have a certain level of digital interaction the fans expected and ifyou can provide that then it almost enhances its point where you can connect ina way with the fans that wasn't even possible before. So they've gone fromnot having any type of connection with with the team to technology getting in theway to now it's evolved enough where they're actually it's enabling kind of immersive,complete experiences. Is that kind of what you're seeing at the at the newstadium? Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's everybody's goal is to,I guess, you know, maybe offer that whole Cornucopia of options. Youknow, whether they like fantasy sports or they're into replays or they want toinstant message. You know, it's a with other fans within the venue,those types of things. He can't really always tell me. You can kindof figure it out by the demographics, but you really the the key onthe back end to a lot of that is capturing the data behind the thedevice use, because you can you really get a great kind of three hundredsixty degree view of the fan, you know, by the you know thetype of content that they consume on those devices. I mean there are allkinds of studies and surveys that can link those with different demographics. So youreally can kind of get a great picture of who that is. I meandown almost to the individual level, and then Mario, basically do pinpoint targetmarketing, you know, to those people with stuff that is relevant. Youknow it's not it's not the days of the shotgun email blast anymore. Youknow, it's you send Jaguire ads to to, you know, the peoplein the suite level and you send, you know, the Ford or Chevyadds to the people that might be, you know, in the upper deckkind of stuff. So you know, it's just it provides a much higherdegree of success in that type of let's...

...say engagement and which also generates morerevenue because, you know, partners and sponsors, you know, are Iwant to have better engagement and and pay for what they know is going towork. Yeah, it's interesting. It creates a new new facet for allof the sports organizations, which I know you're doing with fir stand, andthat is an onslaught of data. So you have you go from not reallyknowing who the fans are unless they're wearing the shirts right and to the pointwhere you literally have digital profiles, or can have digital profiles, of them. So I'm kind of curious. How have you guys kind of structured orpersist your selves to be able to capture, as well as capitalize on that datawith partners. Well, I mean it's simple things like, you know, the digital ticketing. So mean we can generate a lot of insight byseeing where fans are entering what time or through beacons and the wayfinding, wecan almost, you know, we can see sort of what their path wasto the stadium. So that way we we know where maybe it's best toput up booths or sponsor related collateral that, you know, will expose them tothat stuff. So there's things like that. And with our systems thatlike, let's say, do in seek food ordering services or pick up,I mean that that tells us what types of foods people like, you know, so we can better craft menus. I mean, you name it.I mean every time that device is is used, it's generating data that wewe can extrapolate a better view of that fan. We can track them,you know, we will know kind of in a lot of ways, wherethey've been and almost, you know, figure out kind of what their nextsteps will be, you know, after enough data is collected. Have youever had any fans? I mean, I don't think this would be thecase. But I remember back when people started to realize that their cell phoneactually at GPS positioning and they got all freaked out right. They Oh,man, I don't I don't want to, I don't want people knowing where Iam. And now fast forward five, six, seven years, people getannoyed if the phone doesn't know where they are. That digital experience there. Have you ever heard any fans push back on giving that type of visibilityinto their behaviors, or have they welcome to it? I mean, wedid some work when I was at the Red Wings with beacons. You know, that required Bluetooth to be enabled, and you know that that we foundout. You know what, it had a very limited success, you know, because fans would turn off their bluetooth either because they didn't they didn't wantto bother, whether they didn't want to be tracked or or, you know, they didn't want their their batteries to, you know, die well there atthat. So I would say not actively. Again, it's kind oflike that demographic shift, you know, in season ticket holders to a moresort of mobile integrated kind of demographic that that just you know, kind ofunderstands. I mean that's just kind of part of the table stakes now.You know, it's look at the kind...

...of stuff people put out on onsocial media. It's, you know, I mean there's no privacy, youknow. Yes, so, you know, it's like, you know, Imean, they can't really look at us and say, Hey, whatare you doing right? You know, I mean our goal is all aboutboard to to use the data to to increase that, you know, fanexperience, make it more frictionless. You know, obviously you know we wantto we're going to use that data to generate more revenue, but I thinkthere's there's a balance there that, you know, teams are willing to makeand it's just for for the good of everybody. Yeah, and I thinkit all comes back to, at least from what I've see, the trustthat people have the people that are getting you in the organizations are getting thedata. They have to go right and trustworthy, as well as how isit being used to provide that frictionless experience, because that is really if you getto a point in digital where digital enables that frictionless then you gets toa point where you can also start the architect physical you know, I talkedabout this before, especially with that new US by stadium. Some of thephysical cool aspects that are designed into that experience are our second to none.I mean that granted. I'm also am a huge vikings fan of the people, not necessarily football team, no fense, but that whole theme that hold ofmythos right is is it just swallows you up when you walk into thatstadium and I'm curious if you have any plans on how you want to enhancethat for the next seasons or lessons that you learn from that first season withthe Vikings in that stadium and those types of experiences you guys are kind ofplanned on for the future, you know, I mean a certainly lessons learned,you know, I mean it was our our first year in the stateof first season and I can't say that we made any mistakes, but wecertainly seen areas where, you know, there's room for improvement. One ofthe complaints that we've we have heard is versus the you know, the oldmetrodome. I mean they are still lines for the bathrooms and lines for concession. Those are the kind of things that were we are definitely looking at andlooking at ways to fix. I mean there are systems kind of like waittimes out there that you know, will give all the indicators, you know, either on digital signage or even integrated with mobile that will tell you wherethe shorter lines are, you know, or the where there's no weights forconcessions or bathrooms. You know, you just got to be able. Youknow, we willing to take that information and Muse it. You know,a fans. Fans in a lot of ways are very habit driven. So, you know, I mean they might want to buy the same burger orbeer or whatever it is at the concession stand nearest their seat, you know, even if they have to wait. But our goal is to is toget him through the lines because, I mean there's benefits for us as well, because then it's again it's that frictionless environment and you know, also itreduces, you know, attrition, Line Attrition. So revenues go up becausepeople don't don't jump out of line because,...

...you know, something happened out onthe field and they want to run and see the replay. You know, they can either catch it on their their phone as a replay or theyyou know, they're not in line long enough to miss anything like that.So, you know, I would say you know, the line thing iscertainly one that, you know, we're looking hard at with the super bowlcoming up this year. I mean they're there are some other things that werekind of looking at in conjunction with the League, really around a lot ofit's around security and and just logistics of getting to the stadium, you know, because traffic, being the most urban football NFL stadium in the League,traffic is is an issue and because of the the large footprint of the stadium, you know, there's not a lot of parking just directly around the building, so that puts people on foot, that puts people in cars and soaccommodating them with specific dropoff points and things for ride yors or, you know, Uber and lift and and those kind of things. You know, andof course nothing really immediate, but you know, looking down the road atat autonomous vehicles, you know, driverless cars, you know, how arewe going to address that? And Electric Vehicles and you recharging and there's there'ssome things there, but I think overall it was a successful first season forus. We are looking at some some upgrades and things, you know,as far as you know, sell charging stations, you know, increasing thenumber of those we're looking at even some automation in our suits to improve thefan experience there. There's a number of things, you know, but it'soffseason or were kicking those around right now. HOW ABOUT THOSE DOORS? If anybodygets a chance, as seriously, if anybody goes to Minneapolis, youhave to go see the stadium simply because the doors on the front of it. You never seen anything like in fact, apple maybe the only other place intheir new in their new headquarters, a man bigger doors. But howdid those work out this year for you? And they were a phenomenal success.You know, I don't know if anybody is really familiar that hasn't seenthe stadium or heard, but we have what they call five legacy doors,and I hadn't heard about apples doors, but you know ours. I believethey're in the Guinness Book of World Records. It's the largest glass doors on earth. So that mean the are what, four stories tall, four five?anyways, it's five doors side by side on the eat and the westend zone of the stadium that literally swing out and open, you know,to basically extend our concourse into the great outdoors of Beautiful Minnesota. You know, so during during the preseason and the early part of the season. Youknow, we can open these doors and it's it's almost it's almost like acarnival effect. It's just big. No, it's open air, and I meanyou were there. I mean all...

...the people and they're you know,they're drinking and having a great time and there's there's activities, you know,outside, you know, of the doors. And I mean the cool thing asis beond because of these giant video walls that we have on each,you know, above each end zone. You know, you could literally standoutside of the big legacy doors on the plaza having a beer, enjoying thefresh air, look right through the doors, you know, the whole length ofthe field and literally watch the game like you're in your living room.So yeah, I mean the doors are amazing. It really is a neateffect when they're open. I mean we unfortunately, you know, can't,can't leave them open all season. But yeah, we talked to some tailgators that so they wanted they wanted to cold back. Yeah, wells,that goes way back, I think. So when you when we were talkingabout the new training facility, you and our specific talking about how to makethat an unraveled experience as well. I know the Vikings, and Kevin inparticular, very concern and focus on making sure that that facility serves not onlythe Vikings but the community as a whole, and I'm kind of curious, youknow, what are some of the plans to entice the community involvement inthat? Of course there is the give back the part of the community aspectof the bog in a day. It all has to pay for itself atleast, and it is a great expansion for the Vikings in terms of diversifyingsome of their business with some of the plants which going us have their okay. Of Curious and what is the community excited about this and if you heardanything specific about what people are looking for to the most, you know,we have been working, you know, side by side with the city ofEgan on a lot of things, you know, just because they're very integratedin in the mixed you development, in our new practice facility just from acity streets and and utilities, you know, kind of thing up to wanting toto you know, and encouraging us, you know, with development of acceleratorand incubator programs, you know, and and you know, specially aroundtech, sports tech and integration of smart city technology as well. You know, we had a demonstration with verizon last week and I had members of thecity of eagan there that were very excited about how we're looking to sort ofbuild this community within the community on our two hundred acres, of which,you know, forty acres is, you know, strictly dedicated to the practicefacility and and what we need, you know, to run the football operations. But the balance of it literally is, you know, kind of a live, work play environment that's going to include residential areas, commercial restaurant,retail, bars, office build I mean that, you name it. Imean it's going to be, like I said, city within the city where, through things like smart city technology, we want to test different elements oftechnology around that space, you know, order make it very walkable and verywelcoming, you know, to the people...

...that are come there, because we'rewe're going to also have, you know, as part of the vikings forty acres, a six thousand seat stadium there, primarily for training camp but we're goingto also leverage that space for high school football and soccer tournaments and andoutdoor concerts and I mean there's been discussion about even outdoor hockey during the wintertime. Plus there are going to be lakes on the property that are going tohave, you know this really like picturesque walks and things around them and differentdevelopment. But we're going to be using the lakes as well. There's goingto be facilities for during the wintertime. They'll be a warming hut for peoplethat want to ice skate or play play pond hockey out there and, youknow, then during the summer be able to rent paddle boards and Kayaks andthings and you know, there's been talk about doing curling events and and allkinds of I mean, you name it, I mean it. You mean it'skind of the skies the limit at this point, but that's what we'retrying to do, is with these assets that we have and the way thatthe that the whole development is designed, is make it a place where peoplecome and have fun and and they're going to want to come back. Thatis it's really kind of a different sort of outlook on, you know,how how pro sports teams, you know, really kind of operated in the past, or it's been more of a sort of isolated you know, kindof a protected environment, you know, because they they want to concentrate on, you know, becoming champions and in developing their teams or players, youknow, so without the distractions of all these other things. Will we're flippingat one hundred and eighty. I mean we want we want people involved,we want them there, because this is the Vikings are Minnesota's team and youknow, that's the way that we look at it here and we want tobe involved in the community and help it grow because you know, when thathappens, you know good things, you know will happen for us as well. It's a massive project. I mean, I've seen the's about a foot anda half of blueprints on your desk. It's almost I mean it's almost thesize of stone tablets. It's a massive extures. How do you identifythe right partners to work with the Viking's work with you and on realizing thisvision? You know, what is it when you choose a partner? Whatis it that you're looking for and it resonates with you in the King's organization? Well, I mean we've got, you know, some existing partners,like the century links and the verizons out there that you know, have broughttechnology to the table and they're very good at that. So I mean thosewere kind of the easy ones. You know, that allowed us to reallyadapt, you know, what they have and and to other the project where, let's say kind of that that gap analysis takes place and we find outthese other areas where maybe, you know, they don't have expertise or a solution. That's where, you know,...

...start to look outward at maybe whatwhat other sports teams are doing, kind of what's going on out there andthe even in the tech startup world. You know, see if they knowthere's opportunities for us to partner with maybe some upandcomers that we can sort ofCO promote and partner and help develop their technology and and also drive revenue.So those are the kind of opportunities that I think really help us differentiate fromother organizations and kind of how that they know that they run, they operate. But I mean we also have a bigger Palette. The work with themost true, everybody wants to work with the NFL teams. So I thinkattracting those partners isn't that it's the challenge. I'm curious. You spend a lotof time, like with the essentially central links in the hoverizons or otherkind of staple partners. Do you spend a lot of time getting them usedto or understanding the vision and you do see them struggling with it? Iasked because that concept of experience right, of frictionless experience, for people thatdon't live it or think about it, it could be a pretty amorphous concept. So I'm curious if it's an easy conversation to have with your partners,one that they buy into. It's a bit of a challenge. No,I you know. I think you know, they they seem pretty receptive, youknow. I know do spend a lot of time with them, butI mean they they're sharp. Maybe they they you know, they seem toget it. Obviously there's there's motivators for them, you know, because ourdevelopment will become a showcase of their products and services and they obviously want towant to do it right. You know, they want us to be speaking highlyof them. They want other people to see a great partnership and tosee what's going on there. Just kicking ass and take a name, theywould literally. So I love working with all of those partners, I meanbecause it's a really mutually beneficial situation. It's great, it really is good, excellent. All right, so we're coming to the engineer. Got Twofinal questions that we kind of ask all of our guests. First one isbecause you do work for an NFL team, your revenue executive, and obviously ofpeople are interested in what is going to resonate with you. Have toapproach you. I'm curious if somebody were to approach you, were to attemptto don't want to use the word cell, but let's say connect any way,that you guys found a valuable waiting before what resonates with you the best, what type of approacher or will get your attention. I mean, ofbeing as high profile as we are, and this has been throughout my mycareer, regardless of the team. I mean it's easy, you know,for Joe Salesman to find out what the desk number is that at the youknow the Vikings and call and say hey, let me talk to your guy incharge of technology, and they patch them through and I answer the phoneand you know, I get the SPIEL and honestly it really turns me off. And I mean another thing is I'm...

...very easy to find on Linkedin.So you know I get a lot of attention there. But you know,the phone calls really kind of ear take me the most, to be honestwith you, because I've listened to pictures and some of them have actually soundpretty compelling. But to get to the point where it's like hey, youknow, let me send you some more information, and they say okay,great, give me your email address and I'm like, okay, it's myname at Blah, Blah Blah, and they're okay, so what's your emailaddress? And I'm like, wait a minute, you don't even know myname. I mean that's that's the kind of thing that irritates me the mostbecause as easy as it was to probably find the phone number, it's probablyalmost as easy to figure out at least what my name is. So Iwould say do your homework, find out who you're talking to, find outa little bit about those people. Don't just go in there and think thatjust because they picked up the phone, you know they're going to listen toyour pitch. I mean I can't tell you how many times I have that'shappened to me. And when it gets to the whole thing about getting,you know, getting getting information and giving the email address that I mean.I've told people, I said, I tell you what, go back,do your homework. There's this thing called Google. Okay, try it,look me up and then call me back. I've had literally one, maybe twopeople do that my whole career. Wow, yeah, you know me, if they haven't done the homework, and I took a phone because youobviously I'm in sale. So I actually do make a practice of answering thephone because I teach people how to make code calls the right way. Ifthey don't, if they haven't done enough homework to know that who I am, and answer, you know, get my attention out of the game.I just don't have the patience for so. You're much kinder to give them theAF proce. Well, you you say that I haven't given you allthe details. I mean I I've had people in, like, you know, the office across the hall, you know, come in after I've hungup the phone and said wow, I can't believe you said that to them, you know, kind of so you know, it's I don't know.You know. Like I said, though, I mean everybody's I'm is valuable.I'm as well and as the next guy to listen, but do yourhomework. It's that simple. Is it a phone call itself or is itthe lack of preparation for the phone call? The it's not the phone call.It gets the lack of prep I mean fact that they don't even knowmy name. I mean some of them. I mean I even answer the phone. You know, this is todd I mean write it down. Theydon't even remember that. That kind of stuff. It's just it's really irritatingwhen things like that happen. Yeah, it's just it takes a little professionalismin respect for oneself, in the person you're calling. Well, yeah,yeah, exactly, excellent. Okay, so last question, and we gotto think we kind of touch on someone with the you know, do yourhomework part. But I'm curious, and let's kind of frame it in inSports Tex specifically, if somebody were selling into sports tech or somebody were marketingor consulting and you had one piece of advice you could give them to makethem successfuul in that arena, what would...

...it be? You know, Iwould say make it relatable. I look at a ton of stuff. Imean I consider myself an innovator and, you know, pretty progressive, youknow, Solution Minded Tech Guy, but it's like make it applicable to whatI'm doing. You know it. Just don't call me and say you wantto sell me a data mining tool. I mean, you know, tellme, tell me how. How is this data mining tool going to helpus? and kind of the acid test I use is save money, makemoney, be more efficient. You know which kind of plays into the firsttwo. So that's what I want to hear, because if I'm going togo and put my reputation and on the line and argue for budgeting for something, those are the same things I'm going to get asked. So again,I maybe it's a little bit more that do your homework, saying think aboutit. How does your product or service help the Minnesota Vikings, you knowa save money, make money, be more efficient? Does it help usbe more competitive on the field? Does it make us help us, makeus be more competitive out in the business market? Does it improve how wedo business internally? Those kind of things. That's what I want to hear,not that I don't want to do any of the thinking, but youknow, it's like it just I just don't want to get I don't wantto get the impression that I'm just having a canned pitch just spewed all overme. Right, because we we look to partner, you know, wejust want to buy your stuff. We want to be partners with the peoplewe do business with. You know, that's that's the best way to dobusiness. Yeah, without do you find it takes a lot? It doesn'ttake a lot to prep it doesn't take a lot of no, stand theconcept right. It's not a huge investment in a person's time. I'm wondering, though, have you found that there is a lack of general business acumenthat maybe people should be working to increase? Like you said, save money,make money, increase efficiency? That's a and you that's that's pretty obvious, right. Yeah, I see a lot of sales reps you have atendency to not think that way. They think, Hey, I've got thiscool widget and it's going to do x. Why don't you want it? Andthat's exactly right. As a matter of fact, I mean I'm havedealt with one of those, you know, earlier today. I have on mylinkedin I've got email addresses, you know. So I literally have gottenan email and I'll probably about four or five emails from a salesperson and there'sthis literally paragraphs long introductory message. I'm going to read all that, comeon. I blew it off and literally, probably a week or so later,I got that same message back with another thing. Hey, you know, I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this, you know,and then there was like a whole paragraph of stuff there. And I've literallygotten different versions of that same kind of thing like two or three times sincethe original message and I just I just keep deleting them and I'm like,sooner or later they're just going to get...

...it. You know I mean,because, believe me, there's a side of me that wants to say hey, dummy, this is way wrong. You know how you're doing this.I don't know who this works with, but it ain't work in here,you know. So either get concise, tell me what the basic benefits arein a couple of bullet points and how I can contact you if I'm interested, and then let it go now. I mean that's almost like I wondernow you know, how much time, you know, she's spending just tryingto chase me down and it's never going to happen. A little bit ofresearch, Getting Kas ice, understanding your audience, you know, and puttingthe benefit, catching the attention. It doesn't take a lot, you know, it does take a lot, but it does take some time. Versusa we call in sales, we call it show up and throw up,just walk in and just hey, this is the cool shit that I do. It's like that's great, but if it doesn't, if it doesn't applyto the person you're talking to, you not getting anywhere. It's almost alittle disrespectful, I mean quite frankly, from my perspective, and that's kindof the way some of those come off because again, it's like, youknow, I mentioned before how, you know, sports teams don't even dothe full shotgun email, you know, marketing thing anymore because it's really worthless. You know, it's a low, low profile or low percentage shot.It feels like that, and it's like hell, I mean, if wefigured that out, you know why. Why haven't you? So you know, really, that's great, excellent. Well, Hey, this has beenphenomenal. I really appreciate the time. If I'm going to assume the answerslinked in, but if people wanted to follow up with you and touch space. Would the best way to be through Linkedin, or is another avenue thatmakes sense? No, Linkedin is great. I love linked in. I youknow, I post articles and things you know fairly frequently. That's agreat tool. I love it. I get a lot of a lot ofmentorship, you know, request them things through through Linkedin. I love sharingabout my experience with sports industry. But linked in twitter, you know I'mout there as well. You know, at Tcathleish, I mean you knowfacebook, you know the normal stuff. I mean, okay them. MyKids, kids are teaching me how to use instagram and snap Jack. Soexcellent, excell well, I really do appreciate the time to this has beengreat. For those of you that have enjoyed the podcast. Please take amoment to post review and Itunes, share with your friends, family, Coworkers. Off US get the word out. We're doing this to try and helpprovide you guys with perspectives that'll help you become more effective and be yourtargets. So please share the magic. I don't know states to visit thewebsite, wwfv exactcom. Check out other interviews that we've conducted and todd.Thank you again. Look forward to talking to you soon and until we talkagain, best of everything. Thanks chat. Appreciate that it's it's been fun andskull like. Thanks. You've been...

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