The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Tod Caflisch on The Minnesota Vikings Fan Experience (and Where It’s Headed)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Tod Caflisch has been in pro sports IT for almost 30 years, so he’s seen the incredible transformation in the fan experience at sports venues.

In college, he used to go to Celtics games, where the crowd was all men smoking cigars and cigarettes. Halftime would come, they’d play the organ, then the basketball game would finish. That was the fan experience of the day.

We’re light years from there today, with mobile integration and high-tech access control everywhere. The presentation of the game itself has changed dramatically, and everybody’s looking to up their game.

Listen in as Tod, Vice President and Chief Technical Officer with the Minnesota Vikings, describes how the team is taking fan experience to a new level. You’ll also hear the number one worst thing you could do when selling to someone like Tod.

Are you concerned about hitting yourrevenue targets this month quarter or year? Your answer is value: primesolutions, a sales, training and marketing optimization companyleveraging the valueselling framework visit, www, dot value, primeSOLUTIONSCOM and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated t, help inh executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. Youve come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcomeeveryone to the btob revenue executive experience thanks for joining as Todamyour host Chad Sanderson. If you're not able to listen to the entire show.Today, please visit the website, BTB Rev exactcom. You find links to thisconversation and interview as well as others. We've conducted and contentdesigned to specifically help Yo, be your targets. Today, I'm excited tospeak with Todd Cathlish. Vice President, she technical ofser for theMinnesoto Ikics. I've had the pleasure to know and work with time for sometime and I think he's one of the most decightful executives. I've had thepleasure of working with his career in the High Texh side of professionalsports ranges from working with the San Antonio Spurs newew Orleans, hornecks,detroy, red wings, and now the Vikings, where he's deeply involved, and notonly all the technical aspects of uning the franchise, but also the new US Bankstadium for those who haven't had a chance to check it up. hiwly recommendit as well as the new multi use facility, and had quarters two hundredacres that is broken, grounded in process tout. US sincerly want to thankyou for taking the time to talk to us today and as we're getting ready forthis podcast, but decided to focus on fan experience, and so I really kind ofwas a jumping off point love to just get your perspective on kind of thestate of the fame experience. And what do you think it's Tind of Wel thanksChad? I appreciate you having me on your podcast. I am a real tech Geek when it comes tosports, so I love talking about it. So I will probably drone on at some pointjust tell me when to stop but but anyways now fan experience. You knowI've been in pro sports it for almost thirty years and I've seen thetransition infan experience. Amaan. Remember when I was in college. I usedto go to Celtics Basketball Games in Boston with my roommate, and you know it was all men. They were allsmoking, cigars and cigarettes. You know you know half I would come they would.They would play the organ and then the basketball game. What would finish, butit has come light year since then you know now to the point of all the themobile integration and all the high tech, access control and video and andjust you know the whole whol Hooplan the circus. In the presentation of thegame itself, you know there's a lot of...

...competition for the discretionarydollars that people spend on entertainment. So you know everybody islooking to up their game all the time you know but fan experienceis. The key-and you know it's not necessarily a case of you know just keep doing more.You know I mean Wifi, his become really, you know an expected staple. You know,as fan, demographics have changed. You know I mean, like you know the ecelticsexample I gave you know a lot of teams. You know, have older demographics, youknow as season ticket holders, but those demographics are starting toshift more towards younger generations, a very, very mobile, integratedgenerations that you know expect their phones to work when they go and in thecases of a lot of sporting and entertainment venues. You know thathaven't sort of kept up with that trend of you know having high density,distribute antenni systems or Wyi fans have fled out total. They are just notcoming. You know, they're not going to go some place that you know their phonebricks and they're disconnected so menites. You know like why fire it'sbecome an a menity is an expectation and moving forward. Nobile is going toeven become more of an element of the game, experience and just theoperations and how people you know enjoy the experience, whether it's youknow watching replay video or it's augmented reality stats. It's you know: Fantasy Gaming,it's text to win type of you know gamification and confetitions in thevenues, so it's really kind of lending ar leading that direction. But you knowit also really helps kind of maybe seeing that or seeing down the roadwith the high mobile integration that you know. It also gives teams hugeinsight into. You know how to connect with those fans in especially outsideof the venue or the event. So they can. You know almost have regular touchpoints with those fans and season ticket holders, so hit's a two waystreet, but everybody sort of lanched on onto that. You know for the mostpart, one of the things that I really look for that I've seen in a lot ofpostseason surveys, as is making the experience frictionless year after year,I've seen surveys. You know everybody complains about the parking and thetraffic things like that. So it's addressing those I mean therethere, Ithink probably most of the you know the teams that are out there sort ofleaving the charge on tech, integration and fan experience really are lookingmore at the what they would call the driveway to driveway experience, andit's literally from the time you leave home believing you through traffic oravoiding traffic. You know directly into a parking space. You know that'seven waiting for you. If you know your...

...systems are sophisticate enough andthen you know the molodevice helps guide you right in through a mobileticket through the gate, entry of the event and then to your seat or to yourfavorite concession or to help you find a bathroom that kind of thing. It's thethe problems and the challenges that people have that are really theobstacles to fan experience. It's not always necessary. The fact that youknow you don't have the right beer over the seats. You know aren't close enoughto the stage or the court or field or whatever it's, but it's a lot of that.You know it's the it's. The kind of remove the pain in the ass factor thingyou know, and all that kind of stuff when we were talking in the past and wewere up by the US, BAC stadum. It was interesting for me to see how we'vekind of Y- U K, Ow you get to a point where divill and cell phones createddisconnect right between the fan and the experience. But we've Gottento apoint- and we saw this when we were talking to the een- The towgagors upthere, where digital kind of creates a new level at tablestakes, like you,have to have a certain level of digital interaction, tha the fans expected andif you can provide that that it almost enhances into a point where you canconnect in a way with the fans that wasn't even possible before so they'vegone from not having any type of connection with with the team totechnology getting in the way to now, it's evolved enough where they're.Actually, it's enabling kind of immersive complete experiences. Is thatkind of what you're seeing at e at the new stadium, yeah yeah, I mean thatthat's everybody's goal is to I guess you know, maybe offer that wholeCornicopia of of options. You know whether they like fantasy sports orthey're into reclays, or they want Ta instant message. You know it' say withother fans within the venue, those types of things he can't really alwaystell me he can kind of figure it out by the demographics but you're really thekey on the backend to a lot of that is capturing the data behind e the deviceuse, because you can, you really get a great kind of three hundred and sixtydegree view of the fan you know by the you know the type of content that theyconsume. On those devices I mean there are all kinds of studies and surveysthat can link those with different demographic, so you really can kind ofget a great picture of th, who that is, I mean down almost to the individuallevel and then Mareo basically do pinpoint target marketing. You know tothose people with stuff that is relevant. You know it's not it's notthe days of the shotgun email blast anymore. You know, if you send Jaguireads to you, know the people in t e, the sweet level, and you send you know theFordor Chevy ads to the people. That might be. You know in the upper deckkind of stuff. So you know it's just. It provides a much higher degree ofsuccess in that type of, let's say,...

...engagement and which also generates more revenue,because you know partners and sponsors you know are. I O want to have betterengagement and pay for what they know is going to work yeah. It's interesting.It creates a new, a new facet for all of Theu sports organizations, which Iknow you're dealing with first hand nd. That is an onslaught of data, so you have you go from not really knowingwho the fans are unless they're wearing the shirts right and to the point whereyou literally have digital profildsor can have digital profiles on them. SoI'm kind of curious how Hav you guys kind of structured or persistyourselves to be able to capture as well as capitalize on that data withpartners Wel, I mean it's simple things like you know the digital ticketing, soI mean we can generate a lot of insight by seeing where fans are entering, whattime or through beacons in the way finding we can almost we can see sortof what their path was to the stadium. So that way W we know where maybe it'sbest to put up booths or sponsor related and collateral that you knowwill expose them to that stuff. So, there's things like that and with oursystems that, like let's say, do INSEEK food ordering services or pickup. Imean that that tells us what types of foods people like you know. So we canbetter craft menus. I mean you name it I mean every time that device is isused, it's generating data that we we can extrapolate a better view of thatfan. We can track them. You know we will know kind of in a lot of wayswhere they've been, and almost you know, figure out kind of what their nextsteps will be. You know, after enough data's collected, have you ever had anyfans I mean. I don't think this would be the case, but I remember back whenwhen people started to realize that their cell phone actually a TPSpositioning and they got all freaked out right, Theke, Oh man- I don't Idon't want to. I don't want people knowing where I am and now fast forwardfive six seven years people get annoyed if the phone doesn't know where theyare. If that digital experience there have you everha any fans push back ongiving that type of of visibility into their behaviors or have they welcomedit? I mean we did some work when I was at the the red wings with beacons. Youknow that required blue tooth to be enabled, and you know that that wefound out you know a it, had a very limited success. You know because fanswould would turn off their blue tooth either because they didn't they didn'twant to bother whethit, they didn't want to be tracked or or you know theydidn't want r their batteries to t e. You know di O era, so I would say not actively again it'skind of like that demographic shift. You know ind season ticket holders to amore sort of mobile intigrated kind of demographic that that, just you knowkind of understands, I mean that's just kind of part of the the tablestakes.Now you know it's look at the kind of...

...stuff people put out on on social media.It's you know, I mean there's no privacy, you know es ISO, you know it'slike you know. I mean they can't really look at us and say: Hey. What are youdoing right? You know I mean our goal. Is All about board to use the data, toincrease that you know, fan experience, make it more frictionless. You know.Obviously, you know we want to we're going to use that data to generate morerevenue, but I think there's there's a balance there that you know teams arewilling to make, and it's just for for the good of everybody yeah, and I thinkit all comes back to at least from what I've seen the trust that people havethe people that are geting. You know in the organizations that are getting thedata ye that they have to go right and trustwor as well as how is it beingused to provide that frictionless experience, because that is really. Ifyou get to a point in digital, where digital enables that friction. Lest,then you get to a point where you can also start to architect the physicalright. You not talked about this before, especially with the that new US pacestadium, some of the physical aspects that are designed into that experiencee our second non I' an not granted. I'm also am a huge miking fan of the people,not necessarily football team, no offense, but that whole theme thatwhole mythos right is. Is it just swallowsyou up when you walk into that stadium and I'm curious if you have any planson how you want to adhance that for the next seasons or lessons that you learnefrom that first season, with the Vikings in that stadium and those typesof experiences you guys are kind of playing it on for the future? You knowe n. It certainly lessons learned. You know I mean it was Ur our first year inthe stayin first season and I can't say that we made any mistakes, but wecertainly seen areas where you know: There's roomfor improvement. One of the complaints that Ewe have heard is versus you knowthe old metrodomy man they're still flines for the bathrooms and lines forconcession. Those are the kind of things that were. We are definitelylooking at and looking at ways to fix. I mean there are systems kind of likewait times out there. That you know will give all the indicators you knoweither on digital signage or even integrated with mobile. That will tellyou where the shorter lines are, you know or the, where there's no weightsfor concessions or bathrooms. You know you just got to be able. You know wewilling to take that information and use it. You know a fans fans in a lotof ways are very habit driven, so you know I mean they might want to buy thesame burger or beer or whatever it is at the consistion stand nearest theirseat. You know even if they have to wait, but our goal is is to get himthrough the lines, because I mean there's benefits for us as well,because then it's again it's that frictionless environment and you knowalso it reduces. You know, Atrician Line attrition. So revenues go upbecause people don't don't jump out o...

...line, because you know somethinghappened out on the field and they want to run and see the replay. You knowthey can either catch it on their their phone as a replay or they. You knowthey're, not in line long enough to miss anything like that. So you know Iwould say you know. The line thing is certainly one that you know wewerelooking hard at with the Super Bowl coming up this year I mean theree.There are some othe things that were kind of looking at in conjunction withthe League. It really around a lot of its around security and and justlogistics o getting to the stadium beacastrafic being the most urbanfootball. You K, ow NFL stadium in the League traffic is an issue and becauseof the the large footprint of the stadium, you know, there's not a lot ofparking just directly around the building, so that puts people on footthat puts people in cars and so accommodating them with specific dropoff points and things for writers, or you know, Uber and lift and and thosekind of things you know and of course nothing really immediate. But you knowlooking down the road at ad autonamous vehicles, you know, driver Liss cars,you know how are we going to address that and electric mehicles and you know,recharging and there's there's some things there, but I think overall itwas a successful first season for us we are looking at some. Some upgrades andthings you know as far as you know, cell charging stations, you knowincreasing the number of those we're looking at even some automation in oursweets to improve of the fan experience there there's a number of things youknow, but it's the offseason Wer we're kicking those around right now howabout those doors? If anybody gets a chance seriously, if anybody goes toMinnapolis, you have to go see the stadium simply because of the doors onthe front of it. You never seen anything like it. In fact, apple may bethe only other place in their new in their new headquarters. That may havebigger doors. But how did those work out this year for you? They were aphenomenal success. You know, I don't know if anybody is really familiar thathasn't seen the stadium or heard, but we have what they call five legacydoors and I hadn't heard about apples doors, but you know ours. I believethey're in the Guinness Book of World Records is the largest glass doors onearth, so the mean ere. What four stories tall? Four: Five anyways, it'sfive doors side by side on the eat and the west and zone of the stadium thatliterally swing out and open. You know to basically extend our concourse intothe great outdoors of Beautiful Minnesota. You know so during duringthe preseason in the early part of the season. You know we can open thesedoors and it s it's almost. It's almost like a carnival effect because it'sjust Idin Sak. No, it's open air and I...

...mean you were there. I mean all thepeople and Theyre. You know they're drinking and having a great time andthere's there's activities. You know outside you know, of the doors, and Imean the cool thing is: is beon because of these giant video walls that we haveon each. You Know Bove, each en zone. You know you could literally standoutside of the big legacy doors on the plaza having a beer enjoying the freshair. Look right through the doors you know the whole length of the field andliterally watch the game like you're in your living room. So yeah I mean thedoors are amazing. It really is a neat effect when they're open, I mean we.Unfortunately, you know can't can't leave hem open all season, but eahwell we talkd to some tail gators.That said, they wanted. They wanted to cold back. EAH whetethat goes way back, I think so, when you, when we were talkingabout the new training facility, we you and I were SPECIFCAC Talki about how tomake that an unraveled experience as well. I know the vitings N in Cevin, inparticular, very concern ad focus on making sure that that facility servesnot only the witings but the community as a whole and I'm kind of curious. Youknow what are some of the plans to entice the community involvement inthat. Of course, there is the gift back. The part of the community aspect of eLigedi Day it nowall has to pay for itself. At least it is a great expansion for the Vikingsin terms of diversifying some of their business with some of the planes a youguys have their okay curious. What is the community excited about this andhave you heard anything specific about what people are looking forward to? Themost you know we have been working, you know side by side with the city ofVegan and a lot of things. You know just because they're very integrated inin the mixjuse development and our new practice facility, just from a city,streets and utilities. You know kind of thing up to wanting to you knowencouraging us. You know with development of accelerator andincubator programs, you know and and you specially around tech, sports techand integration of smart city technology as well. You know we haddemonstration with horizon last week and I had members of the city of Eganthere that were very excited about how we're looking to sort of build thiscommunity within a community on our two hundred acres, of which you know fortyacres is, you know strictly dedicated to the practice facility and and whatwe need. You know to run the football operations, but the balance of itliterally, is you know, kind of a livework play environment. That's goingto include residential areas, commercial, restaurant retail barsoffice, build I mean that you name it. I mean it's going to be, like I saidcity within a city where, through things like smart city technology, wewant to test different elements of technology around that space. You knowor to make it very walkable and very...

...welcoming you know, to the people thatare come there, because we're we're going to also have you know, I's partof t e, the Vikings forty acres of six thousand seat stadium there primarilyfor training camp, but we're going to also leverage that space for highschool football and soccer tournaments and and outdoor concerts- and I meanthere's been discussion about even outdoor hockey during the wintertimeplus there are going to be lakes on the property that are going to have. Youknow s this really like picturesque walks and things around them anddifferent development, but we're going to be using the lakes as well as goingto be facilities for during the wintertime they'll, be a warming hutfor people that want to ice skate. Their play play pond hockey out there,and you know then, during the summer, be able to rent paddle boards andKayaks and things- and you know, there's been talk about doing curlingevents and all kinds of I mean you name. I mean I, I meanit's kind of the thesky's to limit at this point, but that's what we're trying to do is withthese assets that we have and the way that that the whole development isdesigned is make it a place where people come and have fun and they'regoing to want to come back. That is sit's really kind of a different sortof outlook on you know how how pro sports teams, you know, really kind ofoperate in the past, or it's been more of a sort of isolated. You know kind ofa protected environment, you know because they they want to concentrateon you know, becoming champions and and developing their teams or players. Youknow so without the distractions of all these other things will were flippingat one hondred and eighty I mean we want. We want people involved wo wantthem there, because this is the likings, our MINNESOTAS team, and you knowthat's the way that that we look at it here and we want to be involved in thecommunity and help it grow, because you know when that happens, you know goodthings you know will happen for us as well, and it's a massive project. Imean I've, seen the WHA's about a foot and a half Af Blueprinte on your desk. It's almost I mean it's almost the sizeof o stone tablets. It's a massive project, an I'm curious. How do youidentify the right partners to work with the bikes work with you onrealizing this vision? You know what is it that when you choose a partner, whatis it that you're looking for and that resonates with you in the bikingsorganizition? Well, I mean we've got you know some existing partners likethe century links and the horizons out there that you know have broughttechnology to the table and they're very good at that. So I mean those werekind of the easy ones. You know that allowed us to really adapt. You knowwhat they have and and to other the project where, let's say kind of that,that gap analysis takes place and we find out these other areas. Where maybeyou know they don't have expertise or a...

...solution? That's where you know startto look outward at, maybe what what other sports teams are doing kind of?What's going on out there in the even in the tech startup world, you know seeif the o there's opportunities for us to partner with maybe some up andcomers that we can sort of CO, promote and partner and help develop theirtechnology and and also drive revenue. So those are the kind of opportunitiesthat I think really help us differentiate from other organizationsand kind of how that they, you know that they run they operate, but I meanwe also have a bigger palate to work with than most true, everybody wants towork with the NFL teams, so I think it tracting those partners isn't the it'sthe challenge, I'm cus! You spend a lot of time like with the essentiallcentral links of the vorizons or other kind of staple partners. Do you spend alot of time getting them use, yo or understanding the vision and do ou? Doyou see them struggling with it? I ask because that concept of experienceright at frictionless experience for people that don't live it or thinkabout it. It coul be a pretty emorphos concept. So I'm curious if it's an easyconversation to have with your partners, one that they buy into or it's a bit ofchallenge. No, you know, I think you know they seem pretty receptive. Youknow I do spend a lot of time with them, but I mean they they're sharp. I meanthey. You know they seem to get it. Obviously, there's there's motivatorsfor them. You know because our development will become a showcase oftheir products and services, and they obviously want to want to do it right.You know they want us to be speaking highly of them. They want other peopleto see a great partnership and to see what's going on there, just kick an assand take a name itwas literally, so I love working with all of those partners.I mean because it's a really mutually beneficial situation. It's great. Itreally is good excellent allright. So we're coming to the ENJI got two finalquestions that we kind of ask all of our guests. The first one is becauseyou do work for an NFL team, your revenue, executiveand, obviously a lot of people are interested and what is going toresonate with you if they have for approachitg. I'm curious if somebodywere to approach you or were to attempt to that want to use e word sell, butlet's say connect in a way that you guys found a valuable way on Eforardwhat resonates with you the best, what type of approach or or what get yourattention I mean of being as high profile as we are, and this has beenthroughout my career. Regardless of the team, I mean it's easy. You know forJoe Salesman to find out what the desk number is at at the you know theVikings and hall and say Hey. Let me talk to your guy in charge oftechnology and they patch them through, and I answer the phone and you know Iget sucpeel and honestly. It really turns me off and I mean another thing:Is I'm very easy to find on linked in...

...so you know, I get a lot of attentionthere, but you know the phone calls really kind of irritate me, the most tobe honest with you, because I've listened to pitches and some of themhave actually sound pretty compelling. But to get to the point where it's likehey, you know, let me send you some more information and they say: OkayGreat, give me our email address and I'm like okay, it's my name at Blah,Blah Blah and they're. Okay. So what's your email dress and I'm like wait aminute, you don't even know my name. I mean that's, that's the kind of thingthat irritates me the most because as easy as it was to probably find thephone number, it's probably almost as easy to figure out at least what myname is. So I would say: Do Your Homework Find Out? Who you're talkingto find out a little bit about those people, don't just go in there andthink that just because they picked up the phone, you know they're going tolisten to your pitch. I mean I can't tell you how many times I have atthat's happened to me and when it gets to the whole thing about getting, youknow getting getting information and giving the email address that I meanI've, told people. I said I tell you what go back. Do Your howme work.There's this thing called Google, okay, try it look me up and then call me back.I've had literally one. Maybe two people do that. My whole career, wowyeah, you knowindetin me like if they haven't done their homework and I pickup folt because you know obviously I'm in sales. So I actually do make apractice of answering the phone, because I teach people how to make codcalls the right way if they don't, if they haven't doneenough homework. To know that re who I am and answer you know, get myattention out of the gate. I just don't have the patience for it, so you'remuch kinder to give them the OPPORTUNITIETO CA. Well, you you saythat I haven't given you all the details. An I've had people in. Like you know theoffice across the hall you know come in after I've hung up the phone and saidwow. I can't believe you said that to them. you know ti of Suyou Knowi, don'tknow you know like. I said, though I mean everybody's time is valuable, I'mas well and as the next guy to listen, but do your homework it's that simple.Is it a phone call itself or is it the lack of preparation for the phone calloo? The F? It's not the phone call it it's the lack of prep. I mean fact thatthey don't even know my name. I mean some of them. I mean I even answer thephone. You know this is todd. I meanwrite it down. They don't evenremember that that kind of stuff- it's just it'sreally irritating when things like that happen- yeah it just it takes a littleprofessionalism and respect for oneself and the person you're calling well yeahyeah, exactly excellent, okay, so last question and we kind of think we kindof touchd on someon with the you know, O your homework part, but I'm curiousand let's kind of frame it in it's in sports tect, specifically, if somebodywere selling into sports teck or somebody were marketing or consulting,and you had one piece of advice, you could give them to make them successfulthat arena. What would it be?...

You know I would say, make it relatable.I look at a ton of stuff, I mean I consider myself an innovator and youknow pretty progressive. You Know Solution Minded Tech Guy, but it's likemake it applicable to what I'm doing you know. Just don't call me and sayyou want to sell me a data mining tool. I mean you know tell me, tell me how.How is this datamining tool Goinna help us and kind of the acid test I use issave money? MAKE MONEY BE MORE EFFICIENT? You know which kind of playsinto the first two. So that's what I want to hear, because if I'm going togo and put my reputation and on the line and argue for budgeting forsomething those are the same things, I'm going to get asked so again, Imaybe it's a little bit more that do your homework, think think about it.How does your product or service help the Minnesota Likings? You know a savemoney. MAKE MONEY BE MORE EFFICIENT? Does it help us be more competitive onthe field? Does it make us help us make us be more competitive out in thebusiness market? Does it improve how we do business internally? Those kind ofthings? That's what I want to hear, not that I don't want to do any of thethinking, but you know it's like it just I just don't want to get. I don'twant to get the impression that I'm just having a canned pitch just spewtall over me right, because we we look to partner. You know we just O' want tobuy your stuff. We want to be partners with the people. We do business with.You know. That's that's the best way to do business yeah. Without do you findit takes a lot? It doesn't take a lot to pre. It doesn't take a lot to belstay in the concept right. 's, not it's note a huge ivest one on the person'stime. I'm wondering, though, had you found that there is a lack of generalbusiness acumen that maybe people should be working to increase. Like yousaid, save money make money, increase efficiency, an d to me and you that',that's pretty obvious right, but I see a lot of sales. Reps Wo have a tendencyto not think that way. They think hey. I've got this cool wigit and it's goingto do x. Why don't you want I and that? That's exactly right. As a matter offact, I mean I'm have dealt with one of those you know earlier today I have gotmy linkd in I've. Got Email addresses you know, so I literally have gotten anEmai Andl, probably about four o five emails from a sales person and there'sthis literally paragraph long introductory message, I'm going to read all that come on, I tlew it off and literally probably aweek or so later I got that same message back with another thing: Heyyou know. I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this. You know and thenthere was like a whole paragraph of stuff there and I've literally gottendifferent versions of that same kind of thing like two or three times since theoriginal message, and I just I just keep deleting them and I'm like sooneror later, they're just going to get it.

You know I mean because believe methere's a side of me that wants to say, hey dummy. This is way wrong. You know how you'redoing this. I don't know who this works with, but it ain't working here youknow so either get concise. Tell me what the basic benefits are in a coupleof Bulle points and how I can contact you if I'm interested and then let itgo. No, I mean that's almost like I wonder now. You know how much time youknow she's spending just trying to chase me down, and it's never going tohappen a little bit of research. Getting CAICEunderstandning your audience. You know and putting the benefit catching theattention. It doesn't take a lot. You know it does take a lot, but it doestake some time versus a Ou know we cut in sales, we call it show up and throwright, sanwalking and just hey. This is the cool shit that I do andit's likethat's great, but if it doesn't, if it doesn't apply to the person you'retalking to you not getting anywhere, it's alright little disrespectfulFammin, quite frankly for my perspective and that's kind of the way, some ofthose come off because again it's like you know I mentioned before how youknow sports teams. Don't even do the fholl shotgun email. You know marketingthing anymore, because it's really worthless. You know it's a low lowprofile or low percentage shot. It feels like that and it's like hell. Imean if we figured that out. You know why. Why havea you, you know Surelly, that's great excellent. Well, hey to this has beenphenomenaa really appreciate the time if I'm goinnao assume answers linked it,but if people wanted to follow up with you and touch base, would the best waybe through link dainers. Another avenue that makes sense no link in is great. Ilove linked Ini. You know I post articles and things you know fairlyfrequently that's a great tool. I love it. I get a lot of lot of mentorship.You know requesting things through through linkeon. I love Sharon about myexperience in sports industry, but linked in twitter. You I'm out there aswell. You know at t cafhlish Ho man, you know facebook, you know the normalstuff. I mean Okay E, like my kids, kids are teaching me how to useinstagram and Stack Jack Excellent. Actually. Well, I really doappreciate the time Toda. This has been great for those or Yo that have enjoyedthe podcast. Please take a moment to post review and it share with yourfriends, family, Coworkers Tet us get the word out, we're doing this to tryand help provide you guys with perspectives. That'll help you becomemore effective, it be your target, so please share the magic and don't hastake to visit the website. Twwwb red exactcom check out other interviewsthat we've conducted and Tok. Thank you again look forward to talking to yousoon and until we talk again best of everything, thanks to Atto, appreciatethat it's it's been fun and...

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