The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

This Is How You Increase You SMB’s Sales Effectiveness w/ Rene Zamora


I’ve seen a lot of small businesses struggle with sales teams. 


There are several reasons why, but there’s good news…


You can fix all of them.


To explain how and help you get your small business to start generating more revenue, I invited Rene Zamora onto today’s show. 


Rene is President at Sales Manager Now and Author of Part-Time Sales Management and has a ton of experience turning around struggling sales teams. 


Rene went over:


- The importance of allowing your managers and leaders to do their roles


- Why salespeople exaggerate and complain so much


- The key elements to optimizing your small business’ sales team 


This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Rene Zamora, President at Sales Manager Now and Author of Part-Time Sales Management.


For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience. If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Without a good system in process to feed them good data of metrics, they really can't confidently say I know my sales people are working hard every day and I believe in them. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone in to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about how small business can increase the effectiveness of their sales teams and their leadership, a critical challenge, as many know, not only just now, given the current circumstances, put in general. Also, how do you attract and incentivized the right type of talent from revenue generation standpoint small businesses? To help us, we have with US RENAE's, a more president of sales manager now and author of part time sales management, which focuses on helping any business owner who wants to better manage our sales teams and just ten to twenty hours per month and I thank you for taking time and welcome to the show. Hey, it's good to be here and looking forward to it. Let's go for it, all right. So we always start with a kind of AWFA wall question, and right now I'm just interested in learning kind of something that you may be passionate about that those that only know you through work or through your digital persona may be surprised to learn. Well, when I say I care about people, I really do. I'm pretty sensitive person, and so you can find me. Actually I shading a tear and sales meetings, not because it missed quota, because I missed quota because I get stoked. Then I hear people, you know, applying some of the new things were learning. Are, you know, getting into the sea a CSC level that they've had trouble doing before. I don't know, it hits me, hit's a hey, I understand, I understand. When you see the light bulbs go on in the application, happen in the results, it's hard. It's hard not to be like, you know what, I'm glad I'm doing this for a living, exactly, and I love salespeople, you know, and and not everyone does. I do, so I was I was made to do, that be that person that does and get them and understands them and believes that the world has so many more good sales people that than the ones that we kind of are stereotyped about. Agreed, absolutely a great all right. So let's start with defying them. Roll small business owners play themselves in driving the results are affectiveness, as the effectiveness of their sales team. But when we think of small business owners, a lot of them, everybody's wearing a lot of hats, right. So well, when we when we think about the role that they should play, you know, what is that role that they should play, and why do you think so many of them struggle with it? Well, if they have a sales leader there, then they need to allow that leader to be the leader it, not just step over their lines. But that's just, you know, management one one right. Allow your your managers and leaders to do their role. So, you know, they need to have those things need to be defined. So when we're brought in myself or one of our salesman management consultants, we really not need to define those responsibilities. But okay, so those lines are drawn, then what they need to be is they need to be that resource that provides what the salespeople need to sell more. Some of the things that some of the resistance or the I don't know, the lack of enthusiasm to want to provide salespeople with more than they already have is a fact. They don't believe in them. They're not you know. They you know, they think maybe they are. They're asked a lot. They always want, they always want, they always want you know, but the reality is that there's just asn't a structure put in place to allow a business. When a business owner gets there, they just kind of been beaten down by hopes and disappointments, hopes to disappointments. You know, everyone once from while some things would go great, but in general, without a good system in process to feed them good data of metrics, they really can't confidently say I know my sales people are working hard every day and I believe in them. Art It's hard...

...for them to say that because they don't have the data to instructure to make them feel that way. Absolutely. And when we think about, you know, that sales leader, let's assume it's a small business that has has a sales leader and play in small businesses. It's always a challenge again because typically that that business owner, it's their baby right there, there right. They're more than it's more than just a business. It has a huge emotional contact for them. And so you have a sales leader, a manager in there. What do they need to be doing to provide, you know, the sales team so that that sales seem consistently optimize, is optimized and performing at top levels? Well, they first have to be interested in exactly what you said there. That's what their game is, that to be able to help those salespeople be their best, to be optimized. Okay, which does not mean going out on sales calls to help them close business, you know, which doesn't mean telling them everything to do with does me just stepping back, you know, in setting up, you know, clear expectations, having a good meet and meeting cadence, having good dialog and engagement in the sales means where people are learning from each other, not having to be the guru, not having to earn your place by showing them how much you know and how good you are. Now you got to step back. It's all about the team. You know. You see the best professional coaches and sports. You know, they're just really they're managing, but the bottom line is who plays the game? The players, who sells, sells people, not managers, and so they really need to understand their role. All my glories in them. Have you have you found it difficult for some sales managers to wrap their head around that, like that difference between being the be all, end all and and and enabling the team as a whole? You know, I don't work a lot with sales managers, but it's out there. I mean, I've seen it and that's the part of that Peter Principal thing, you know, where you know you move the top sales guy up. I mean I was that person one time, you know, and I was more attractive to the override than I was to the responsibility and that's why I bagged it or at my career. But you know, now it's completely different and you know, like I said, I'll shed a tear. I'm excited about people being better, improving and, you know, not only being a great salesperson but becoming a better person. So yes, it's hard for you have to be there to be your best sales leader, sales manager, and there's a lot of good leaders out there. But, you know, chat, if I could say there's one thing that makes it very difficult on small businesses is that to get the type of talent you want that not only has that perspective of team first, not myself, but also the know how in the street, cheek strategic thinking to put all the structure in place and to be keep looking ahead to help people grow, because that's where the attention should be. The job at a small business just isn't challenging enough to track that type of talent. It has nothing to do with the company, the people, the the money offered to them. They're usually is not a full time day of work at a small business. None of my clients I'd work full time out and I love them all, but I would get tossed other worked. If I don't like doing then I won't like the job anymore and I'll leave right and that's kind of why I've written the book to help small business owners. Ay, look, if you want to do this, here's how you can do it and be the owner, sales manager, split split hats or you hire you know, company like ours it did, are popping up more and more in that is a you know, outside outsource fractional scales management with some top level people leading your team. Love it and and I'd say, I have to say I chuckled as as I was preparing for this and notice that one of the things that was in your in your your prepe, pre pre prep packet, so that three times fast, was, you know, first, the realization that sales people exaggerate a lot and complain, but the actually there's a way they're make it disappear. And I gotta know. I need to know what. What? What is that? Because we run into this all the time. Sure, I love it. Okay, well, you're okay.

Here it is. Here's the big secret. You need to listen to them. All that exaggeration, just like a child in ourselves, all our extra volume, loudness, exaggeration, plank. It's all because we don't think our voice is being hurt. And so you can't just listen one time and expect all that to go away. You know, you have to show them that you're willing to listen what their problem is, but you're also not willing to listen to the crap. You know, it's like, okay, I got I hear you here. So what's the you have to help them learn how to solve issues and problems. So, I got it. The customer delivery didn't happen. You're telling me that they're never going to buy from us today. It's the end of the world, you know, Blah, blah, unless we don't fix this today. Okay, I got it. I got it. So they're so you're basically telling me the customers upset. All right, okay, got it. They're up. Soil it down. Yeah, and you are embarrassed. Then you're losing your and you're worried your reputation is going to be tarn as for future sales. All right, I mean so you have to just, you know, peel it off, help them see the truth also, and and then basically say, all right, what do we need to do? You know, I can't solve it if they don't buy from you tomorrow, but let's solve the problem and you start showing you. So you got to peel it back. Don't just react and Nope, do a fire drill, because at that point what you're doing is you're educating them on how to be business people. And so if you take that time with that, through that process, then they see, all right, they start learning, they start quieting down, they see that you listen and solve or you put it back on them, you know. And so it's just a process, but it's you have to be consistent at it. You can't just be good one week and then be reactive the next two weeks. More them, because it'll look continue and it'll never stop because they're not being heard right. Yeah, the consistencies key, I've at least in my experience. If you're not consistent with it, then they don't know what to expect and so it's harder to levels all the way around. Yeah, and so if they're small business owners out there and and they're struggling with the trajectory of their sales teams today, let's just kind of extrapolate it outside of covid and just in general. I sure if they're struggling with it, what where do you recommend they start? Well, how do they how do they turn the page? How do they help get those sales teams or do what they need to for the business to have those sales seems to be successful. How we do it is this way. There's there's five key elements. One of you you got to believe in your people. So you got to turn that page or whatever negativity you have on your team, you got to just be willing to do a reset for yourself and just say, okay, that's the past. Do I like? Do I like these people? Can that? Can they sell for? Can they sell? Yeah, I like them in the account sell. Okay, great, let's reset right there. All right, I believe in them. Forget the past. It's that's number one. Two, you got to be clear about your expectations. I was listening to one year earlier podcast this month and yeah, you know, it's management one hundred and one. You know, clear expectations. But how do you do that? I started it with the business. You know, share where your vision is. Where are you taking the company? Of people don't know where you're taking the company and it's just all about, like how much did you sell this month? That's all it's about. There's no there's no long term strategy or your cut. The conversations aren't the same because it's just about this month. But if they know we're going to we want to double in five years and I'm either gonna double my sales team or I'm going to watch these salespeople, you know, sell more. which way would you guys like self her are more people, you know what I mean. Just that little thing there puts that responsibility on them. Okay, show me, show me, you know. And so be clear about the business. Goll share that, clear about their expectations. Create an environment of accountability. I mean this is a lot. You told me where to start, but I want to give you the whole frame work right, right, accountability has the regular meetings, team meetings, one on one meetings, imprompting meetings, and you also have to have quality conversations, which I alluded to earlier about the complaining and exaggeration.

So you have to be committed to if you can't, you can't always be available to talk to someone, but you can, when you know that they need to, you can make the time to talk to them. Hey, look, I can't do it right now. How's your afternoon? Look Great? I'll see talk to it. Cam To call for o'clock. I'm there for you. I mean, that shows them it's important. I mean, you don't have to jump every time, but just it's business, you know. Yeah, and so I think that's a big point. I say, I hear myself say, that a lot is just business. These are. You know, we're all adults here, but I would say that owners don't always treat it like it's just business and everyone adults. Hey, we just get kept we get caught up, emote our own emotions and so is long we set the tone and I just noticed it sells. People are any employee once they know the mode. Oh, we have business conversations, we talked about issues, we solve issues, we look for opportunities, we align with strategies. They just do that. But if leadership isn't operating that way, then we all operate a little the best we think we'll get us what we need right, and then there's no consistency, which become right for the organizations to manage and and effectively enable right. There was one thing you also said was, you know, I don't know what you said. I kind of say breaking through a sales ceiling. You were Tam about improving the trajectory. I just got to go back on that point again, that there comes a point and every small business, you know, if it's that five years, ten years, twenty years, I mean to work with the company it's eighty years been in business, third generation, and you know, they kept hitting the ceiling because they just didn't ever have that sales leader that, you know, with thinking strategically, in built the team in. It's every manager doesn't do that. There's managers who manage people, who just kind of keep the team from bothering the owner and they get paid less and you know, they kind of help every they kind of keep create their own little, you know, kingdom there, but it doesn't grow that much. It just managed. And then you have leaders who are there to meet objectives based on what the owner says I want. I want us to go from five million to ten million, and that's their task. It's not about complaining and giving excuses. It's about that's what we do, that's what we're going to do, and that's the person you could be looking for it if you're at that place of really wanted to break through. Right every business, it's up to them because it's their business. They could however, however, they want my respect that, and so part of the part of the child. You mentioned it earlier. I want to go back to his attracting that right type of talent. Now I've I've been in sales eighteen, eighteen plus years. Before that I was a marketing. But I one hundred percent understand why small businesses may not seem like a challenge or or seem like something that has enough, I don't know, I don't work or whatever for them for that to to attract, you know, the people that live and breathe and really have it in their DNA. So one of the things that that I had seen was that you don't think small businesses are structuring incentives correctly. So how should businesses be structuring there incentives to attract that top town or the or the greatest level of talent they can they can get? Well, first I want to buy two things. What I said earlier about the job isn't challenging enough for there. That was for a sales leader, sales manager. So attracting sales people. I don't know. Tell many which way you want me to go on this sales person in our sales leaga sales people. Let's think about solves, because it got I mean, I'll admit even myself, like when I was an individual contributor the I don't want to see the larger organizations because I've never been a huge like. I mean I've worked for global companies, but that's not really my sweet spot, but I can see why sales people may choose something that has a bigger pond, let's say, then a small men business. So why, you know, how do those organizations hout of those small businesses attract that that top sales talent? Well, first you need to have that good...

...struction organization, and that's why I always coach people when they hire me, is like, let's not go out and start try to hire people right now. Let's get things taking care of in house. Let's clean up our house here, you know, let's get everything I mentioned before us get our beliefs and expectations and accountability and meetings. So let's build our culture and have that team culture, a Kay that you have good other team type sales folks that are attracted to so so you got to get your house in order and then you need to define who you are. Every small business has as an identity in a culture that there's some core employees that really enjoy working there. That the type of employees you want to be there for a long time. That's what's kind of cool of small businesses. People will stay there like their their life, you know. I mean if they can, if the business keep going, they like small, they don't want corporate. They're not trying to build their resume, they're not, you know, trying to hit other milestones their their lifestyle allows for that family business and so our small business and and so you need you to find and then when you're out there pitching, you need to promote that. Okay, you don't want to find everybody. You want to find a person who wants your culture. You don't want to find that corporate guy who's in between jobs who thinks he might like a small business. He won't, okay, and so you find that, put it out there and then you have to have your comp in line. And so that just means a little research. You know what is what's the marketplace just in your in your area and your industry are actually more of like the type of work we're being asked, asking them to do. How Much Lea Jen are they have to do? How much right are they just responding to all that stuff comes into play, and so I summarize that house in order promote who you are. Don't not who you're. Not who you are and then make sure your compass in line to attract the right type person and you'll find great people just got to be patient. Sometimes it happens fast, sometimes to take some month or so, fine, awesome, all right, so I love it. So tells audience more about sales manager. Now. What do you do there? What types of clients you work with? Give us some context. Sure. So we are akin of weird the we're sales managers for small businesses that are usually usually two hundred and fifteen million in sales, sometimes up to twenty million and sales. They have sales teams of two people to tend people. We work virtually so you know everyone else. It's learning virtual right now. We've been doing it since for fourteen years. I was in the training business, similar to you, for a while and in different area, high performance, team and leadership, and I just didn't like traveling and so I wanted, I was hoping to find something that would let me stay home. Someone gave me this idea of this business and I started it back in two thousand and six and it hasn't changed. Where someone just said, Hey, be a small business for our BIA manager for small businesses, and it just hit me. was like, Oh, why not? I mean corporations do it all the time. They they see a manager manage five offices or eight offices or ten offices across the United States or a region. It's like it's not new. The the concept of scaling leaders effectiveness across many teams is not new at all. It's just very new to small business us because, like what I would be have a manager's managing five or so of another team's how does he do that? Doesn't have to know my product and service. No, no, not really, not if you're managing and leading correctly. Right, you know, I'm not selling a darned thing. I don't get in front of a customer because people should be able to. So we've been doing that and it's a musually. Our clients pay half then, you know, half, less than half of what they pay a full time manager, you know, and it just seems to work out. So we're just kind of good little secret here. I'm trying to not be such a secret anymore. And how did you ride? I mean, I'm with you one percent on the travel thing, and last year I had a hundred and sixty seven...

...thousand, I think, air miles and this year, you know, everything's gone virtual, which is fine. I know my business was ten percent virtual before and now it's a hundred percent. Yeah, and there's some opportunities to pivot there. I kind of like being at home. I'm with you too. I've got clients who say they prefer the virtual but what where's the passion for that leadership and that working with small business? Where does that come from? Back to where we started the question. I care about the I like working with I like having honest business relationships and when in a small business I'm talking to the owner, there is no layers of managers, sir, corporate are you know, it really soured me was when, you know, I was working at a privately how a company, after a few acquisitions, if finally went public, and just sees, you know, some of the decisions that are made to meet you know, bank covenants aren't good. Every day, every quarter, every year, business decisions, they're about finance and it's just is soured me and just like you know, it's not right for what I'm doing the customer. We're doing it just to keep the money flowing top. It's like you can't tell me that, but I know it and it's like I can't live like that. It's like I want to talk to someone where we can just say, all right, what are we going to do next quarter, where year, and be part of that leadership team that's helping attain someone's vision, someone's life style. I have such a high respect for small business owners. Mean it's like it's more than one time that I've heard like, you know, yeah, we didn't get paid last quarter. You know, I mean they give up their own pay. You. No one here is that. They just think they're making a bunch of money. But right, you know, they just I disrespect them. Have a lot high respect. It takes. It takes. I mean it takes a special kind of person to start a business to keep going. It's not for the make of the mile. I mean, and I can say that you know, I started this business three years ago, having, you know, left, left the bigger businesses or medium besides businesses. Stop being an executive and all of a sudden you become one man shop with some business partners and you're doing everything. I mean, and it's not a eight hundred and twenty five eight a chuckle. It add can't. Last time I worked in two five like it's a it's a lifestyle thing. So it does. I'm with you on that. It takes a lot and then there's a great deal of respect should be given to the individuals that are willing to go out and do that. So right, let's change direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests who standard questions towards the Interviachal. You first and simply, as a revenue, exect yourself as an owner of a business. That makes your prospect for sales professionals. And I'm always curious to understand if somebody doesn't have a trusted, you know, reference, are afral into. Somebody says hey, Renet, you really should talk to this individual. How do they capture your attention and earn the right some time on your calendar to have a conversation? Well, they they can't make assumptions. You know, I hate that one. I yeah, I see, you should want to talk to me. You because of this. You know our I look, you know, I you know, they just make assumption just so obvious. So they have to have to be brief, humble and be, you know, be clear that whatever they are offering is something that I would consider, not I should consider, I might want to consider. And so you know, if they've done a little homework and talk to someone or they've really understand my business, then they can figure it out. But it's you know, it's just tough. It's tough out there for sales folks. So go meet someone, get meet someone that knows me right and right. Talk to them, and then you'll know about me and then you'll have a better chance of getting on my counter because I'll know that you know me more. I don't have time to educate everyone with what I'm doing. Right, absolutely, show me. Yeah, we tell everybody. Show them. You know, do your homeworks. Well, you know what's coppy about them. All right. So last question. Call it our acceleration insight. If there's one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional services people, one piece of advice you could give them that you believe would help them hit their targets, what would it be? A why? One, darn it, I just wanted right. That's the trick with the question. Is All right, set your goals, commit to...

...commit to your goals. I'd say. Commit to your goals, make sure you know what they are and then, and since stay focused on them, commit to them. Yes, that's yet your job. It's not just to on a paper or chart. That's your job. Do it awesome. Love it, Renee. If a listeners interested in learning more about your company talking to you, where would you like us to send them? You should go to sales manager nowcom sales manager nowcom my home page. What have a little intro video. You can learn a little bit more if you want to explore more, or there's plenty on there, plenty of resources you want to read or listen or whatever. We can hemp you. Excellent. I can't thank you enough for taking time. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks. It's been fun. All right, everybody. You know, the drill be to be rev exact. com share with friends, families, Co workers and until next time. We have value selling associates. We should. We all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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