The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

This Is How You Increase You SMB’s Sales Effectiveness w/ Rene Zamora


I’ve seen a lot of small businesses struggle with sales teams. 


There are several reasons why, but there’s good news…


You can fix all of them.


To explain how and help you get your small business to start generating more revenue, I invited Rene Zamora onto today’s show. 


Rene is President at Sales Manager Now and Author of Part-Time Sales Management and has a ton of experience turning around struggling sales teams. 


Rene went over:


- The importance of allowing your managers and leaders to do their roles


- Why salespeople exaggerate and complain so much


- The key elements to optimizing your small business’ sales team 


This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Rene Zamora, President at Sales Manager Now and Author of Part-Time Sales Management.


For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience. If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Without a good system in process tofeed them good data of metrics, they really can't confidently say I know mysales people are working hard every day and I believe in them. You're listeningto the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategiesor tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate yourgrowth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone in to the BB revenueexecutive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about howsmall business can increase the effectiveness of their sales teams and their leadership, acritical challenge, as many know, not only just now, given the currentcircumstances, put in general. Also, how do you attract and incentivized theright type of talent from revenue generation standpoint small businesses? To help us,we have with US RENAE's, a more president of sales manager now and authorof part time sales management, which focuses on helping any business owner who wantsto better manage our sales teams and just ten to twenty hours per month andI thank you for taking time and welcome to the show. Hey, it'sgood to be here and looking forward to it. Let's go for it,all right. So we always start with a kind of AWFA wall question,and right now I'm just interested in learning kind of something that you may bepassionate about that those that only know you through work or through your digital personamay be surprised to learn. Well, when I say I care about people, I really do. I'm pretty sensitive person, and so you can findme. Actually I shading a tear and sales meetings, not because it missedquota, because I missed quota because I get stoked. Then I hear people, you know, applying some of the new things were learning. Are,you know, getting into the sea a CSC level that they've had trouble doingbefore. I don't know, it hits me, hit's a hey, Iunderstand, I understand. When you see the light bulbs go on in theapplication, happen in the results, it's hard. It's hard not to belike, you know what, I'm glad I'm doing this for a living,exactly, and I love salespeople, you know, and and not everyone does. I do, so I was I was made to do, that bethat person that does and get them and understands them and believes that the worldhas so many more good sales people that than the ones that we kind ofare stereotyped about. Agreed, absolutely a great all right. So let's startwith defying them. Roll small business owners play themselves in driving the results areaffectiveness, as the effectiveness of their sales team. But when we think ofsmall business owners, a lot of them, everybody's wearing a lot of hats,right. So well, when we when we think about the role thatthey should play, you know, what is that role that they should play, and why do you think so many of them struggle with it? Well, if they have a sales leader there, then they need to allow that leaderto be the leader it, not just step over their lines. Butthat's just, you know, management one one right. Allow your your managersand leaders to do their role. So, you know, they need to havethose things need to be defined. So when we're brought in myself orone of our salesman management consultants, we really not need to define those responsibilities. But okay, so those lines are drawn, then what they need tobe is they need to be that resource that provides what the salespeople need tosell more. Some of the things that some of the resistance or the Idon't know, the lack of enthusiasm to want to provide salespeople with more thanthey already have is a fact. They don't believe in them. They're notyou know. They you know, they think maybe they are. They're askeda lot. They always want, they always want, they always want youknow, but the reality is that there's just asn't a structure put in placeto allow a business. When a business owner gets there, they just kindof been beaten down by hopes and disappointments, hopes to disappointments. You know,everyone once from while some things would go great, but in general,without a good system in process to feed them good data of metrics, theyreally can't confidently say I know my sales people are working hard every day andI believe in them. Art It's hard...

...for them to say that because theydon't have the data to instructure to make them feel that way. Absolutely.And when we think about, you know, that sales leader, let's assume it'sa small business that has has a sales leader and play in small businesses. It's always a challenge again because typically that that business owner, it's theirbaby right there, there right. They're more than it's more than just abusiness. It has a huge emotional contact for them. And so you havea sales leader, a manager in there. What do they need to be doingto provide, you know, the sales team so that that sales seemconsistently optimize, is optimized and performing at top levels? Well, they firsthave to be interested in exactly what you said there. That's what their gameis, that to be able to help those salespeople be their best, tobe optimized. Okay, which does not mean going out on sales calls tohelp them close business, you know, which doesn't mean telling them everything todo with does me just stepping back, you know, in setting up,you know, clear expectations, having a good meet and meeting cadence, havinggood dialog and engagement in the sales means where people are learning from each other, not having to be the guru, not having to earn your place byshowing them how much you know and how good you are. Now you gotto step back. It's all about the team. You know. You seethe best professional coaches and sports. You know, they're just really they're managing, but the bottom line is who plays the game? The players, whosells, sells people, not managers, and so they really need to understandtheir role. All my glories in them. Have you have you found it difficultfor some sales managers to wrap their head around that, like that differencebetween being the be all, end all and and and enabling the team asa whole? You know, I don't work a lot with sales managers,but it's out there. I mean, I've seen it and that's the partof that Peter Principal thing, you know, where you know you move the topsales guy up. I mean I was that person one time, youknow, and I was more attractive to the override than I was to theresponsibility and that's why I bagged it or at my career. But you know, now it's completely different and you know, like I said, I'll shed atear. I'm excited about people being better, improving and, you know, not only being a great salesperson but becoming a better person. So yes, it's hard for you have to be there to be your best sales leader, sales manager, and there's a lot of good leaders out there. But, you know, chat, if I could say there's one thing that makesit very difficult on small businesses is that to get the type of talent youwant that not only has that perspective of team first, not myself, butalso the know how in the street, cheek strategic thinking to put all thestructure in place and to be keep looking ahead to help people grow, becausethat's where the attention should be. The job at a small business just isn'tchallenging enough to track that type of talent. It has nothing to do with thecompany, the people, the the money offered to them. They're usuallyis not a full time day of work at a small business. None ofmy clients I'd work full time out and I love them all, but Iwould get tossed other worked. If I don't like doing then I won't likethe job anymore and I'll leave right and that's kind of why I've written thebook to help small business owners. Ay, look, if you want to dothis, here's how you can do it and be the owner, salesmanager, split split hats or you hire you know, company like ours itdid, are popping up more and more in that is a you know,outside outsource fractional scales management with some top level people leading your team. Loveit and and I'd say, I have to say I chuckled as as Iwas preparing for this and notice that one of the things that was in yourin your your prepe, pre pre prep packet, so that three times fast, was, you know, first, the realization that sales people exaggerate alot and complain, but the actually there's a way they're make it disappear.And I gotta know. I need to know what. What? What isthat? Because we run into this all the time. Sure, I loveit. Okay, well, you're okay.

Here it is. Here's the bigsecret. You need to listen to them. All that exaggeration, justlike a child in ourselves, all our extra volume, loudness, exaggeration,plank. It's all because we don't think our voice is being hurt. Andso you can't just listen one time and expect all that to go away.You know, you have to show them that you're willing to listen what theirproblem is, but you're also not willing to listen to the crap. Youknow, it's like, okay, I got I hear you here. Sowhat's the you have to help them learn how to solve issues and problems.So, I got it. The customer delivery didn't happen. You're telling methat they're never going to buy from us today. It's the end of theworld, you know, Blah, blah, unless we don't fix this today.Okay, I got it. I got it. So they're so you'rebasically telling me the customers upset. All right, okay, got it.They're up. Soil it down. Yeah, and you are embarrassed. Then you'relosing your and you're worried your reputation is going to be tarn as forfuture sales. All right, I mean so you have to just, youknow, peel it off, help them see the truth also, and andthen basically say, all right, what do we need to do? Youknow, I can't solve it if they don't buy from you tomorrow, butlet's solve the problem and you start showing you. So you got to peelit back. Don't just react and Nope, do a fire drill, because atthat point what you're doing is you're educating them on how to be businesspeople. And so if you take that time with that, through that process, then they see, all right, they start learning, they start quietingdown, they see that you listen and solve or you put it back onthem, you know. And so it's just a process, but it's youhave to be consistent at it. You can't just be good one week andthen be reactive the next two weeks. More them, because it'll look continueand it'll never stop because they're not being heard right. Yeah, the consistencieskey, I've at least in my experience. If you're not consistent with it,then they don't know what to expect and so it's harder to levels allthe way around. Yeah, and so if they're small business owners out thereand and they're struggling with the trajectory of their sales teams today, let's justkind of extrapolate it outside of covid and just in general. I sure ifthey're struggling with it, what where do you recommend they start? Well,how do they how do they turn the page? How do they help getthose sales teams or do what they need to for the business to have thosesales seems to be successful. How we do it is this way. There'sthere's five key elements. One of you you got to believe in your people. So you got to turn that page or whatever negativity you have on yourteam, you got to just be willing to do a reset for yourself andjust say, okay, that's the past. Do I like? Do I likethese people? Can that? Can they sell for? Can they sell? Yeah, I like them in the account sell. Okay, great,let's reset right there. All right, I believe in them. Forget thepast. It's that's number one. Two, you got to be clear about yourexpectations. I was listening to one year earlier podcast this month and yeah, you know, it's management one hundred and one. You know, clearexpectations. But how do you do that? I started it with the business.You know, share where your vision is. Where are you taking thecompany? Of people don't know where you're taking the company and it's just allabout, like how much did you sell this month? That's all it's about. There's no there's no long term strategy or your cut. The conversations aren'tthe same because it's just about this month. But if they know we're going towe want to double in five years and I'm either gonna double my salesteam or I'm going to watch these salespeople, you know, sell more. whichway would you guys like self her are more people, you know whatI mean. Just that little thing there puts that responsibility on them. Okay, show me, show me, you know. And so be clear aboutthe business. Goll share that, clear about their expectations. Create an environmentof accountability. I mean this is a lot. You told me where tostart, but I want to give you the whole frame work right, right, accountability has the regular meetings, team meetings, one on one meetings,imprompting meetings, and you also have to have quality conversations, which I alludedto earlier about the complaining and exaggeration.

So you have to be committed toif you can't, you can't always be available to talk to someone, butyou can, when you know that they need to, you can make thetime to talk to them. Hey, look, I can't do it rightnow. How's your afternoon? Look Great? I'll see talk to it. CamTo call for o'clock. I'm there for you. I mean, thatshows them it's important. I mean, you don't have to jump every time, but just it's business, you know. Yeah, and so I think that'sa big point. I say, I hear myself say, that alot is just business. These are. You know, we're all adults here, but I would say that owners don't always treat it like it's just businessand everyone adults. Hey, we just get kept we get caught up,emote our own emotions and so is long we set the tone and I justnoticed it sells. People are any employee once they know the mode. Oh, we have business conversations, we talked about issues, we solve issues,we look for opportunities, we align with strategies. They just do that.But if leadership isn't operating that way, then we all operate a little thebest we think we'll get us what we need right, and then there's noconsistency, which become right for the organizations to manage and and effectively enable right. There was one thing you also said was, you know, I don'tknow what you said. I kind of say breaking through a sales ceiling.You were Tam about improving the trajectory. I just got to go back onthat point again, that there comes a point and every small business, youknow, if it's that five years, ten years, twenty years, Imean to work with the company it's eighty years been in business, third generation, and you know, they kept hitting the ceiling because they just didn't everhave that sales leader that, you know, with thinking strategically, in built theteam in. It's every manager doesn't do that. There's managers who managepeople, who just kind of keep the team from bothering the owner and theyget paid less and you know, they kind of help every they kind ofkeep create their own little, you know, kingdom there, but it doesn't growthat much. It just managed. And then you have leaders who arethere to meet objectives based on what the owner says I want. I wantus to go from five million to ten million, and that's their task.It's not about complaining and giving excuses. It's about that's what we do,that's what we're going to do, and that's the person you could be lookingfor it if you're at that place of really wanted to break through. Rightevery business, it's up to them because it's their business. They could however, however, they want my respect that, and so part of the part ofthe child. You mentioned it earlier. I want to go back to hisattracting that right type of talent. Now I've I've been in sales eighteen, eighteen plus years. Before that I was a marketing. But I onehundred percent understand why small businesses may not seem like a challenge or or seemlike something that has enough, I don't know, I don't work or whateverfor them for that to to attract, you know, the people that liveand breathe and really have it in their DNA. So one of the thingsthat that I had seen was that you don't think small businesses are structuring incentivescorrectly. So how should businesses be structuring there incentives to attract that top townor the or the greatest level of talent they can they can get? Well, first I want to buy two things. What I said earlier about the jobisn't challenging enough for there. That was for a sales leader, salesmanager. So attracting sales people. I don't know. Tell many which wayyou want me to go on this sales person in our sales leaga sales people. Let's think about solves, because it got I mean, I'll admit evenmyself, like when I was an individual contributor the I don't want to seethe larger organizations because I've never been a huge like. I mean I've workedfor global companies, but that's not really my sweet spot, but I cansee why sales people may choose something that has a bigger pond, let's say, then a small men business. So why, you know, how dothose organizations hout of those small businesses attract that that top sales talent? Well, first you need to have that good...

...struction organization, and that's why Ialways coach people when they hire me, is like, let's not go outand start try to hire people right now. Let's get things taking care of inhouse. Let's clean up our house here, you know, let's geteverything I mentioned before us get our beliefs and expectations and accountability and meetings.So let's build our culture and have that team culture, a Kay that youhave good other team type sales folks that are attracted to so so you gotto get your house in order and then you need to define who you are. Every small business has as an identity in a culture that there's some coreemployees that really enjoy working there. That the type of employees you want tobe there for a long time. That's what's kind of cool of small businesses. People will stay there like their their life, you know. I meanif they can, if the business keep going, they like small, theydon't want corporate. They're not trying to build their resume, they're not,you know, trying to hit other milestones their their lifestyle allows for that familybusiness and so our small business and and so you need you to find andthen when you're out there pitching, you need to promote that. Okay,you don't want to find everybody. You want to find a person who wantsyour culture. You don't want to find that corporate guy who's in between jobswho thinks he might like a small business. He won't, okay, and soyou find that, put it out there and then you have to haveyour comp in line. And so that just means a little research. Youknow what is what's the marketplace just in your in your area and your industryare actually more of like the type of work we're being asked, asking themto do. How Much Lea Jen are they have to do? How muchright are they just responding to all that stuff comes into play, and soI summarize that house in order promote who you are. Don't not who you're. Not who you are and then make sure your compass in line to attractthe right type person and you'll find great people just got to be patient.Sometimes it happens fast, sometimes to take some month or so, fine,awesome, all right, so I love it. So tells audience more aboutsales manager. Now. What do you do there? What types of clientsyou work with? Give us some context. Sure. So we are akin ofweird the we're sales managers for small businesses that are usually usually two hundredand fifteen million in sales, sometimes up to twenty million and sales. Theyhave sales teams of two people to tend people. We work virtually so youknow everyone else. It's learning virtual right now. We've been doing it sincefor fourteen years. I was in the training business, similar to you,for a while and in different area, high performance, team and leadership,and I just didn't like traveling and so I wanted, I was hoping tofind something that would let me stay home. Someone gave me this idea of thisbusiness and I started it back in two thousand and six and it hasn'tchanged. Where someone just said, Hey, be a small business for our BIAmanager for small businesses, and it just hit me. was like,Oh, why not? I mean corporations do it all the time. Theythey see a manager manage five offices or eight offices or ten offices across theUnited States or a region. It's like it's not new. The the conceptof scaling leaders effectiveness across many teams is not new at all. It's justvery new to small business us because, like what I would be have amanager's managing five or so of another team's how does he do that? Doesn'thave to know my product and service. No, no, not really,not if you're managing and leading correctly. Right, you know, I'm notselling a darned thing. I don't get in front of a customer because peopleshould be able to. So we've been doing that and it's a musually.Our clients pay half then, you know, half, less than half of whatthey pay a full time manager, you know, and it just seemsto work out. So we're just kind of good little secret here. I'mtrying to not be such a secret anymore. And how did you ride? Imean, I'm with you one percent on the travel thing, and lastyear I had a hundred and sixty seven...

...thousand, I think, air milesand this year, you know, everything's gone virtual, which is fine.I know my business was ten percent virtual before and now it's a hundred percent. Yeah, and there's some opportunities to pivot there. I kind of likebeing at home. I'm with you too. I've got clients who say they preferthe virtual but what where's the passion for that leadership and that working withsmall business? Where does that come from? Back to where we started the question. I care about the I like working with I like having honest businessrelationships and when in a small business I'm talking to the owner, there isno layers of managers, sir, corporate are you know, it really souredme was when, you know, I was working at a privately how acompany, after a few acquisitions, if finally went public, and just sees, you know, some of the decisions that are made to meet you know, bank covenants aren't good. Every day, every quarter, every year, businessdecisions, they're about finance and it's just is soured me and just likeyou know, it's not right for what I'm doing the customer. We're doingit just to keep the money flowing top. It's like you can't tell me that, but I know it and it's like I can't live like that.It's like I want to talk to someone where we can just say, allright, what are we going to do next quarter, where year, andbe part of that leadership team that's helping attain someone's vision, someone's life style. I have such a high respect for small business owners. Mean it's likeit's more than one time that I've heard like, you know, yeah,we didn't get paid last quarter. You know, I mean they give uptheir own pay. You. No one here is that. They just thinkthey're making a bunch of money. But right, you know, they justI disrespect them. Have a lot high respect. It takes. It takes. I mean it takes a special kind of person to start a business tokeep going. It's not for the make of the mile. I mean,and I can say that you know, I started this business three years ago, having, you know, left, left the bigger businesses or medium besidesbusinesses. Stop being an executive and all of a sudden you become one manshop with some business partners and you're doing everything. I mean, and it'snot a eight hundred and twenty five eight a chuckle. It add can't.Last time I worked in two five like it's a it's a lifestyle thing.So it does. I'm with you on that. It takes a lot andthen there's a great deal of respect should be given to the individuals that arewilling to go out and do that. So right, let's change direction herea little bit. We ask all of our guests who standard questions towards theInterviachal. You first and simply, as a revenue, exect yourself as anowner of a business. That makes your prospect for sales professionals. And I'malways curious to understand if somebody doesn't have a trusted, you know, reference, are afral into. Somebody says hey, Renet, you really should talk tothis individual. How do they capture your attention and earn the right sometime on your calendar to have a conversation? Well, they they can't make assumptions. You know, I hate that one. I yeah, I see, you should want to talk to me. You because of this. You knowour I look, you know, I you know, they just makeassumption just so obvious. So they have to have to be brief, humbleand be, you know, be clear that whatever they are offering is somethingthat I would consider, not I should consider, I might want to consider. And so you know, if they've done a little homework and talk tosomeone or they've really understand my business, then they can figure it out.But it's you know, it's just tough. It's tough out there for sales folks. So go meet someone, get meet someone that knows me right andright. Talk to them, and then you'll know about me and then you'llhave a better chance of getting on my counter because I'll know that you knowme more. I don't have time to educate everyone with what I'm doing.Right, absolutely, show me. Yeah, we tell everybody. Show them.You know, do your homeworks. Well, you know what's coppy aboutthem. All right. So last question. Call it our acceleration insight. Ifthere's one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional services people, onepiece of advice you could give them that you believe would help them hittheir targets, what would it be? A why? One, darn it, I just wanted right. That's the trick with the question. Is Allright, set your goals, commit to...

...commit to your goals. I'd say. Commit to your goals, make sure you know what they are and then, and since stay focused on them, commit to them. Yes, that'syet your job. It's not just to on a paper or chart. That'syour job. Do it awesome. Love it, Renee. If a listenersinterested in learning more about your company talking to you, where would you likeus to send them? You should go to sales manager nowcom sales manager nowcommy home page. What have a little intro video. You can learn alittle bit more if you want to explore more, or there's plenty on there, plenty of resources you want to read or listen or whatever. We canhemp you. Excellent. I can't thank you enough for taking time. It'sbeen a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks. It's been fun. All right, everybody. You know, the drill be to be rev exact. com share with friends, families, Co workers and until next time.We have value selling associates. We should. We all nothing but thegreatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensurethat you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or yourfavorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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