The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 7 months ago

The Secrets to Post-Pandemic Selling

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

For almost two years, you’ve heard everything under the sun be described as the new normal. Everything from unconvincing Zoom backgrounds to stockpiling so much toilet paper that Charmin sends the mean bears they don’t show in the commercials to your house The new normal is that the world has completely changed. So, why is your sales team so eager to get back to their old normal?

Today, I’m speaking with Cherilynn Castleman, Managing Partner at CGI Executive Coaching and author of What's in the CARDS?, to find out how to navigate the complexities of post-pandemic selling.

Join us as we discuss:

  • The ins and outs of post-pandemic selling
  • The difference between strategic account management and executive selling
  • Social styles and how you can incorporate them into your selling 

Now that you know the secrets to post-pandemic selling, are you ready to learn more about the B2B buyers’ journey, or how to use data to prevent revenue leaks in your business? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome every one of the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about something everyone has been longing for, post pandemic sales strategies, the key phrase there being post pandemic. Damn. It feels good to say that. Hopefully, we are getting there and we all need to be prepared to come out the other side with strategy is going to make us successful, to help us. Today we have Sherylyn Cassman, Managing Partner at CGI Executive Coaching and author of what's in the cards, five post pandemic sales strategies. Sherylynn, thank you so much for taking time and welcome to the show. Thank you chat. I am thrilled to be here and excited to talk about what I mean by post pandemic. Absolutely when I saw that, when I saw that in the tile. I was just like that's a phrase I haven't heard yet and it just felt so good, no matter what the meaning was, for me it was like that is definitely something I'm looking forward to. So we always begin each episode with kind of an off the wall question just for the audience to get to know you a little bit better, and I'm always interested to learn something you're passionate about that those that may only know you from a work perspective might be surprised to learn. Yeah, so chat, I'm a Colorado girl. I was a girl scout for thirty years and I if I am not coaching, training or spending time with my family, I am on my road bike or in my Kayak. You know, all day tomorrow I will be biking to highland Hammon Hammond State Park and on Sunday I'll be kayaking about twelve miles across the manatee river. And so I am an active outdoor cyclists and Kayaker. and Are you in Colorado now? I am not,...

I am in Florida. It is it is a little cold in Colorad writer. I wasn't say because I'm Ann and I we got five inches of snow yesterday. I was like that's gonna be a Cold Kayak trip. No, no, I had do have my cold weather kayaking and biking gear, but I decided that I'm going to start spending my my winter is someplace warmer. So yeah, very nice, very nice. All right. So let's start with what inspired you to write the book. I mean we're talking about that's not a small fee. I mean there's the planning, the writing, editing, the publishing and then, of course, the promotion on the back end. So that's a that's a big project to tackle. Would just love to understand kind of what the inspiration was for you to go on that journey. So, chat, I have to be honest with you. I didn't set out with a goal to write a book. Like so many successful salespeople and successful executive have a morning routine and my morning room team, as always, included writing for fifteen minutes. Didn't matter what I wrote. And as we were coming into the pandemic, I started writing more strategies to help my clients do better during the pandemic and I started posting them on my website, posting them on Linkedin, and I started hearing people Sherlyn, you got to write a book Sherlyn, you got to put this out for people. And I read an article that Harvard Business Review put out that the talked about women in sales and how women out sold men coming out of the two thousand and eight financial crisis, and a light kind of clicked on for me and I was like, wait a minute, if what women did were successful, then is that going to help women coming out of this crisis? And so then it went on to people teasing me with saying, Oh, so you think men should learn to sell like women, and I started saying, well, either that or hire a bunch of women, because they out sell men during these times by eight percent. Wow. That's why I wrote the book. My daughter, who's been my editor probably since she was in the first grade.

She's an amazing writer, did all the editing for me and so it was a labor of love between the two of us and I just met some amazing people who did the promotion for me in the marketing, and so it just became kind of a fun project and I never said a gold write a book. It just kind of happened and well, and that's amazing story. I mean to be able to do that with your daughter, you know, some of the best things are on plan right. It's just seize the moment. So I've really appreciate that perspective. I always toyed with the idea write in a book, but you and no, I fifteen minutes. Just just roll over in the morning, get up, I sit, I stretch, I hydrate, I do my attitude of gratitude and I write for fifteen minutes. Doesn't matter what I could I write, but I commit and I've been doing that now for about five years. That is awesome. Okay, so what you just said something I want to touch on. That the attitude gratitude. You do the gratitude exercise. Every morning I have a gratitude. It's called my gratitude packed and what my gratitude? Pactice is. Peace stands for people. So every morning I say who am I am I grateful for as an action. So, for example, people would be my best friend, Gwad action is a Gwen and I bicycle ride every we used to ride, you know, every night after work. A comfort. My comfort would be my bicycle shorts. I was grateful for those and a talent was keeping my bike upright. So I have and I taught I call it a gratitude of action, because then I write a thank you note to Gwen. And so when I say a gratitude of action, you have to do something. So say thank you, send flowers, send a note, send an email, thank somebody on Linkedin, and so I think people actions, comforts, talent and then I do something and thank people and that's part of my morning routine. I love that. All right. So I have been doing the gratitude every morning for years. I, you know, wake up, hydrate, truly think through three things that I am truly in my heart grateful for. Set the tone for a day. I love the adding the action part to it. So, as we were talking before, if somebody learned one thing...

...from this, I just learned one thing that I'm now going to start doing some mission accomplished. Excellent. So we can just in the podcast, because that was my God, we got one. Let's see how many more we yeah, let's see. I'm all right. Yeah, so let's talk about how did you find yourself in the World of Executive Sales Coaching? What was the journey like? Okay, so what? So I have been in sales, like I said, since before girls got cookies were a dollar. A box. Long, long time, Chad. Okay, it's all I've ever done has been in sales. And let me just ask you a question. In Sixty five years we've had eighteen hundred CEOS of fortune, five hundred companies before two thousand and twenty one. How many were black women? Do you know? I would say probably none. One. Ursula Burns, or SLA burns, was the CEO of Xerox and when she stepped down in two thousand and seventeen, Fortune magazine interviewed her and asked her why there weren't more black women in the sea suite and she went on to say, marketing, communication, the arts won't get you there. Women have to learn to get close to the juice. And she went not explain that the juice is product and money. And a lightbulb came on in my head. That's sales. Women can learn how to sell, we can build generational wealth, we can take care of our family and our kids, we can be entrepreneurs, we can be side Preneurs, we can get into the sea suite, we can become too good to be ignored. And Right then I started my coaching practice. I love it. I love it, and so one of the things in the prep materials that I was looking through was this difference, is phrasing difference, the difference between executive selling and strategic account management. And I think a lot of people struggle with print, with the difference between an account executive and an account manager. Taking it to this level where we're talking about executive selling versus strategic account management, help the audience understand how you make how you differentiate those two. Okay, so the way I look at strategic account management is it is upselling and cross selling. You have an account for example, I was training a group of sellers who had just their company had just filed their...

IPO and I was helping them get ready and one of the account managers had a Ford as an account and he's head sold to Ford explorers and he was trying to feligre out how to sell across to fe s and mustangs. If he had taken an executive sales approach, he would have sold into the sea suite. When you sell into the sea suite, you you take on the executive mindset and you build financial fluency. So is that you understand how executives think and executives think about increasing revenue, reducing expenses, increasing Roi or building assets. If you approach sales from that standpoint, you can sell into the sea suite, you can become an executive sales person and what that will do is that will help you increase the speed and size of your deals, move across the organization faster, build your confidence, challenge conversations and you become a strategic partner of those executives. I love it. And there was one thing in the same area on your linkedin profile that talked about, and it was it was very subtle, very brief, but it jumped out to me, is financial fluency and so understanding. You know, you talked about the juice right, the money in. The problem understanding how the business works. There are, as I'm sure you've run into, many, many sales professionals who really just don't seem to get how a business operates or how to tie what they're doing to the influence of that revenue funnel, of the Revenue Cycle, and I'm curious from your perspective. I personally believe it's a gap that many of them need to fill, but I'm curious from your perspective, not only why is it so critical for success, but how are you helping individuals overcome that gap? So what I help sellers do is three things. When you look at financial fluency. The first one is just understanding that when it's when it comes to executives, it all comes down to money. Financial results drive...

...strategic decisions. Okay, that's it. It's all comes down to money. Number two, you have to emerge yourself in your customers world. I teach people how to do qualitative and quantitative research. You Know How to read a k? Where to find a k? Why would you? I mean a K is could be over K with a hundred eighty pages long. How can you read that in fifteen minutes or ea the last and find critical information that helps you link what they are buying and why they are buying to what you're selling? And that's what I do. So I teach people how to do both qualitative and quantitative research, as well as, for example, how to find and why do you want to read a DF fourteen, a proxy statement? Practice statement is at page is long. Do you know what the very last page is on a practice statement? I don't executive comp you want to know how executives are compensated and what they're bonused on this year. Read that proxy statement. You can speak to what it's important to that executive because you know why they're getting compensated. So if you can get through a K using some quick research techniques that I teach people, if you can read the proxy statement, if you can, I use value line. Value Line is so incredible. Value Line is expensive, but every single library has value line online for free for all of their library members. So get a library card, go and pick up value line and and you can read it online. And what it does is every quarter it talks about every industry. So if you want to know what's going on with the shoe industry right now and why, you know when anthem sneezes, all the other health insurance come and get a tissue, or why, if Nike does something, every other shoe company follows suit. That information is in value line. It's a free resource. It also tells you all the financials about all the publicly traded companies every single quarter.

So the two most important documents that most salespeople never read are their clients K, which is an annual report that's filed with the SEC. There are also ten queues. If you want to know how the pandemic is impacting your client or the industry. Read this material and then look for what I call what pops, and that's the pain, the opportunities and the problems, and then connect that with your solutions and you can go in and talk to people. There's another quick tip for that I have for your listeners, and that is understanding ratios. Now, I'm not a mathematicians and my eyes used to glaze over when I was trying to calculate ratios, but there are websites that you can go through to the make this easy. One of them is CSI market. CSI market calculates its CSI MARKETCOM. It calculates the ratios for you. It will also lists out all their competitors and their ratios and you can look for any changes. You look for the delta. Go in and talk to somebody about the Delta between there there. You know they're what's going on with, you know, one of their ratios versus. You know, talk to them about their ROA or their roe or their Ros, the return on sales, return on equity, on return on assets compared to their competitors, and watch how their eyes line up. That's excellent advice, excellent advice. All right. So there's another thing called social styles that I noticed in the prep materials and I would love to understand and what that means from your perspective and just to the audience knows, that's trademark. What we meant at that. Yeah, I wanted to put one point that out. Okay, give it. kind of help everybody understand what those are and kind of give us an example of one of them in the impact on the way it might change a sale or an approach to sale. Absolutely so, first of all, social styles is is trade. Bright right tray, trycom, but some people have heard of disk or Myers Briggs. They're always of looking at how people...

...think and act, and so I like social styles because it's one of the easiest. Eighty percent of salespeople find it very easy to use, whereas only about sixty percent of people ever use Myers brigs up that they learned, and about seventy will use disk. And so the easiest way to think about it is Chad. You ever going to a bakery and you see a pie and you see the Brown crust and the sugar on top and you look at it and you see a little red coming out the top and you ever wonder is that a cherry pie or is that a strawberry Rubar Pie? You don't know what's on the inside. But with social styles, teaches you to do is be observant about what's on the outside, personalities on the inside. We don't worry about somebody's personality. What we want to do is learned to be better observers, and so you learn to see the people talk quickly, like I do. Are they warm? You know? Are they friendly? Do they greet people? Do they ask about their weekend? Are they colder? Are they reserved? Are Their hands really animated? And so let me give you an example of how this has played out in the sales so when I early in my career, I used to do a lot of workshops and I did a workshop for a group of black women attorneys and I walked in the door and they hugged me and they greeted me and we all had the same suits on and I did the workshopping. At the end ninety percent of them signed up. I blew my quota out that month and I was like, I figured it out. All I do is workshops. So the next month I did a workshop for the black engineers. I walked in, they didn't speak to me, they didn't laugh at my jokes, they didn't like my stories and I had zero sales. Okay, I am fast paced, I'm warm, I'm engaging. Engineers aren't I had to learn to add some numbers to my talk. Slow down, talk about numbers. And one quick tip for your audience is if you're talking to an analytic, round your numbers out to three. You never say thirty million to an analytic. You would say twenty nine point seven million. You never say about ten percent or about twenty percent...

...because they disregard that. They want to hear nine point two eight percent. So always taking numbers out to be threes when you dealing with an analytic. And so if you learn about social styles, you learn how to flex somebody else's style, and that's great if they have the same social styles you. But what you're learning in social styles is if somebody is different than yours, how do you flex a little bit? How do you slow down? How do you speed up? How do you include numbers? So there are analytics who want to be right, there are amiable who want to be safe, there are drivers who want to be in control and they're expressive who want recognition, and so you learn how to tailor your pitches, how to tailor your communications, both your written communication, your voice mails, your presentations and if you're ever doing an RFP and you're doing an RFP presentation, it's almost like a three ring circus. You're flipping and changing as you are talking to the CFO, as you talking to the chief marketing officer, because each one of them have a different social style. It's a blast once you learn it, it really is. You can look at somebody's linkedin profile and just about figure out just almost where their social stylist and adjust your approach. I love it, and that's an important point, because the only thing we can change is ourselves, right. We can't change other people. So being able to do that as a skill that we talk a lot about with with individuals that we work with, and you just see their eyes kind of go, wait a minute, I can't, I'm not I can't manage this person the same way I manage this other person. I can't coach them the same way. It's like no, you need to be aware of how they are going to respond and what they're going to respond to and you need to make the adjustment that's so important for people and I think, honestly, one an area not enough people pay attention to. So, without without giving too much away about the book, I'm curious five strategies. Which one of the five resonates the most with you or is your favorite? So, as we come out of the...

...so I just want to say that post pandemic doesn't mean the end of the pandemic, but the post pandemic means chat and I wish it did, I really do. I wish I could write a book and say we're done with the pandemic. Wasn't that great? What Post pandemic means? Okay, we're in this pandemic and everything you knew about your clients and your customers in two thousand and nineteen and two thousand and twenty has changed. And if everything about your clients has changed, you as the salesperson, have to change, and that's what the book is about, is how do we find our superpower and how do we change to address the unique business needs going on in these uncertain times? And so what the card stands for is five areas that actually women help. Women out sell men, and it is collaboration, analytic relationship development, a growth mindset and strategy, and my favorite is relationship. And one of the things that I teach is how to connect empathetically with people, how to be an empathetic listener. And one of the things, one simple thing that I teach people to do is to quiet your mind, because we don't know what else is going on in our clients world. Did they just find out that they have to riff and lay off half their team? Are they struggling because they have a two year old under their desk whether they're trying to work? Or are they struggling because they can't go and see about their parent who's in a retirement community that's not letting in really visit because of the pandemic? So everything about business has changed and everything about our clients lives have changed. And so one of the things that I do, Chad is I encourage people just to take a deep breath and hold it into what's called box breathing. Breathe into the count of for, hold it at the top to the count of four, blow it out to the count of for and hold it at the bottom of the count of four, and what that does is it quiets our brain, lowers our heart rate and reduces our blood pressure and it allows us to listen. And if we listen, we're present, and being...

...present allows us to connect with our clients and be more empathetic, and that's what relationships are about. I love it. And once you connect, then clients will solution with you. You're not selling, you are solutioning with them, and that's what post pandemic selling is about, building relationships and solutioning. When I learned to sell, I don't know about you, Chad, but they taught me that empathy was a feel felt found method. I don't know if you ever heard that. We're taught. Okay is, I know how you feel. I have felt the same way and what I have found is that when people buy my product, their problem goes away. Anytime you start a sentence with the word I, you're not being empathetic, you're not being present. And so what I challenge people is, when I start in sales, we spent twenty percent of our time focused on building relationship and then eighty percent selling. What my challenge in the book is you spend eighty percent of your time building relationships and twenty percent of your time solutioning with them, once you're connected with them. I love it. I love it. That's an excellent insight. So now let's talk about individuals that you work with. There's some people that are inherently coachable, some that that maybe, maybe could get there, and then there's those that are just like not, not, not hearing it, you're not open to it, and I'm curious how you identify those types of individuals or identify what your ideal client would look like from from a coaching standpoint. So I was the first of I believe, everybody's coach about. Not Everybody can work with the same coach. But all my coaching has to do with what I call gap coaching. So if I said that you Chad, okay, Chad, close your eyes, open your eyes. It is now January, Twenty Eight, two thousand and twenty three. What do you want to be different about your podcast? If I ask you that question and you don't have a vision for your future, I'm not sure your...

Coachabo because there's no gap. If you say, Oh, I'm my podcast is perfect, I'm perfect right where I am. There's no need for a coach. So I coach people who want something to be different in their life. And so when I ask them what do you want to be different, most people have that answer. Oh, I want to get promoted, I want to close bigger deals, I want to I you know, I don't want to be so afraid of Linkedin. So that's number one. Number two, so they have to have a vision, they have to have a goal where they're going. Number two, they have to be committed to growth, and so coaching can help you discover your blind spots are real quick. What tip that I have for your listeners is that you know, go into your your manager or your whoever, whoever, one of your leaders, and say to them, on a scale of one to ten, how would you rank me as an account executive? And then it doesn't matter how they rank you. I don't care if they give you a nine or two. The next question is most important one. Have them ask, what do I need to do to be at ten in your eyes? And then be quiet and right. I don't care for your bosses stand on your head for ten minutes. You just write whatever they say. You don't say yeah, but you just write. And if they say something that you really don't understand, you can say can you say that a different way, or can you give me an example that after you've written everything down that your manager said, say thank you. Now go and ask that same question of three or four other people, your peers, people, you work with, your clients. It doesn't matter when you're done, you're going to find out where your blind spots are. That's what coaching does. Coaching helps you develop the skills and knowledge that you need to get to your goal and also identify where those blind spots are. You know, years ago I read this this quote that someone said that if one person says you're a horse, they're an idiot, if three people say you're a horse, it's a conspiracy, but if four or five or six people say your horse, you probably should get a saddle. So what what...

...this does is this teaches you whether or not you need to give a saddle. And so that's what coaching does, is it's a real safe place to find out where your blind spots are. So have a vision, have a growth mindset, be committed to getting out of your own way, for some of us are self limiting beliefs, and that's what coaching is about. Beautifully put. Beautifully put, sorry, let's let's Talk About CGI executive coaching and your journey to get there. How did we get here? What inspired it? So I talked a little bit about Ursela Burns and coaching and again the article from Harvard Business Review and the pandemic and just believing. And also there's been a couple studies linked in recently had forester do a report that they determined that diversity drives sales. Companies that have a solid diversity strategy and have diverse sales people out sell, have greater conversiion rate, they have higher sales attainment and higher customer satisfaction anywhere from anywhere from about six to twelve percent. So I started thinking, does it make sense for me to help women? Women of color become too good to be ignored, and so that's what I started doing. I started coaching and I coach individuals, I coach groups and also companies hire me to coach cohorts. So, for example, there was a telecommunications company that gave me six women of color to coach for six months. It helps them with retention, it helps bond, you know, anchor the women to the organization. One of the women. It went from doing a hundred percent of her quota to hitting a hundred and forty four percent of her quota. Several of the women that I coach become top of the leaderboard for their organization or their their group. I even there was an SDR that I coach who was new as an SDR and I still remember that she was great on the phone, amazing on the phone, but scared to death of Linkedin.

So we talked about the why of Linkedin, the how on the what of Linkedin and I gave her some tips and strategies and she just started tiptoeing in and within about ninety days she was top of the leaderboard, top SDR. Today she's an SDR manager and she ended up teaching a linkedin course for entire company, including the CEO, because she had mastered this. And so that's what ends up happening with coaching is when you get out of your way and you have a growth mindset, you move very quickly towards your goals. And that's how I and why I built CGI and so today I coach individual women, cohorts of women, groups of women. I'll to do trending and speaking for any organization that wants their sales team to become too good to be ignored and that they can excel in these post pandemic times. Love it. So all right, let's change direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests two standard questions towards the end of each interview. The first is simply your well respected professional that makes you a prospect. So I'm sure people are trying to sell you things. So I'm always curious to know if you don't, if somebody doesn't have a trusted referral into you, what is it that works best for you when somebody's trying to capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar? So one of two things that either need to understand that I'm a driver expressive, which means, bottom line, okay, I am busy. I need to be in control. If you reach out to me, you are helping me be in control. Bottom line, don't waste my time, okay, and so either understand that and come at me that way, or number two, either know what my pain is or take the time to figure it out. One of the things that I encourage people to do during these post pandemic times is for questions, and I call the for S F's first, finest, fail your future. Ask you know, when I first started doing virtual programs, I was scared of that. I can, I can engage an audience. I remember my first virtue...

...was horrible and I had all these people calling me saying, Oh, I can help you get comfortable in front of the camera. I didn't need to be comfortable in front of the camera. You don't. Nobody ever ask me. What was it that you wanted? Okay, I wanted to engage my audience. I didn't know how to do that virtually, and so no one ever asked me. What was it like the first time? That's your F question, Sherlyn. You were in front of a camera. The second one is finest, Sheryln what are you doing well in front of the camera? The third F is failure, Sherilyn. What it? What could you do better? What are you failing at in front of the camera? And the fourth is future, Sherlyn, what do you want your future to look like? If somebody had called me and said those four questions to me and said that they could help me get to my future, I would have said where I was. Sign no questions ask. So give me those four fs. Again. So it's first, finest, future, fail your future. So first everybody has a first after the pandemic. What was it like the first time you in the office after the pandemic? What was like the first time you called on a client after pandemic? Or was it like the first time you led your team and during the pandemic? So everybody has a first. Asked them about it. People will tell you. Hey, Chad, what was your first pandemic podcast? Like, everybody has a first. But the second one is finest. What are you getting right because of this pandemic? What are you getting right? What is your finest? What are you doing well? The next one is failure. Every one of us, because of this pandemic, could be doing something better. If you can help your client do that better, you got a client. And the final one is future. Okay, we're stuck in this. This is where it is. But what does it look like? What does your future look like? Love it. Thank you. Somebody asked me those I would have bought and I told and I told so many people no, thank you, no, thank you, no, thank you, because nobody ever came to me and wanted to know what my experience was like. So take the risk, connect with somebody, build that relation ship, or at least come at them with their social...

...style. And you know I don't do timid sales people very well. I just I haven't. I just, you know, Chad, and I'll tell them, I'll tell them about it. Look, I'm a salesperson and I understand how hard this is, but I just don't have time. Right. Okay, I love it, I love it all right. So last question. We call it our acceleration insight. If there's one thing you could tell sales people, just one piece of advice that, if you could tell them, you believe would help them meet, exceed or crush their goals, what would it be? And why? Oh, elevate your game and and and understand finance. I think financial fluency. I think urstly said it best. You've got to understand the juice. Take the time and go out and learn financial fluency. So I would say elevate your game. Elevate your game, understand that we are coming out of this pandemic or we're going to be in this pandemic. You have to do things differently. Do something differently. You know, one of my mentors said to me if you criticize people, Cherylyn, you raise your defensiveness. If you challenge people, you raise their game, and so my challenge to everyone listening is do one thing differently. I hope that you picked up one idea here that you're going to go out on Monday and do differently than you did today. Hello, it Sherylon. For listeners interested in talking more about these topics, reaching out to you or finding the book, where would you like us to send them so you can find the book on Amazon. Post pandemic selling. You can reach out to me through SHERYLN CASTLEMANCOM. That's my website. You can connect with me on Linkedin and I again I challenge anybody here that if what I said about post pandemic selling, financial fluency or diversity driving sales resonates with you, connect with me and I'd love to have a conversation with you. I'd love to hear your story. You can, like I said, on Linkedin, you can connect with me or at Sheryln Castlemancom. Excellent, Sherlon. I can't thank you enough for taking time to be on the show. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you chat it has been my pleasure and I so look forward...

...to hearing from your your listeners about the one thing that they got today. So thank you. Excellent. All right, everybody that does it for this episode. You know the drill be to be REV exactcom share with friends, family and Co workers like what you here do is a favorite Le reserview on itunes and until next time, we have value selling associates. With y'all, nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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