The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

The Power of a Value-Based Sales Methodology w/ Robbie Traube

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Prospects are bombarded daily with messages pressuring them to buy.

That can get pretty exhausting. 

Even if you’ve got a product they need, people don’t buy products. They buy the results the product will give them.

You’re in sales; your job is to sell. I get it. 

But what if selling for the sake of selling wasn’t your primary goal? What if providing value was your focus? 

I caught up with repeat guest Robbie Traube, CRO at subscription economy leader Zuora, to discuss the power of the ValueSelling Framework® for scaling sales organizations.

We also talked about:

  • How Robbie started using the ValueSelling Framework and his relationship with it throughout his career
  • The biggest results Robbie has seen from relying on the ValueSelling Framework.
  • How value selling comes to life in an organization.
  • How to ensure sales teams continue to apply sales frameworks in a virtual world.

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Robbie Traube, CRO at Zuora.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

 

You need to have a standard terminologyand a standard language, and it's got tied to the sales process and it'sgot to be tied to the value we bring to our customers, not partners. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helpingexecutives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place.Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the VBrevenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking aboutthe power and importance of a sales framework for scaling sales organizations and howto keep the growth going during unpredictable times, a lovely cliche phrase we're all gettingway too familiar with. To help us, we have with US RobbieTravis Cros or. Robbie. Thanks so much for taking time and welcome backto the show, Chad. Very, very happy to be back. Thankyou for having me. Yes, you are our official first repeat guest,and so I just went to take a second to recognize and say how muchI appreciate your support and willingness to give us a little bit more time.Not at all. This is I like to be. There is the theearly person. So now good. All right. So, for those whomay not be aware, Robbie was one of our first guests on the showwhen we started this podcast about three years ago. So He's affectionately what wereferred to as a repeat friend, meaning throughout his career Rubbie has actually broughtvalue selling to several companies. So for context, I was just wondering,Robbie, if you would run down kind of your relationship with value selling isit's progressed through your career? Sure, I mean it's really interesting for me. I mean I first came across Baddy's setting when I was running over salesa company called Makado. I think that was way back when, in twothousand and five, and then from there I went to omnature and at omature. That's been around two thousand and eight, and we started defining various things inevery way. I thought about how's going to look at the cells methodology. All my head kept coming back to the frameworks around value setting, andso in the end I got connected back with Rick who's sort of being astalwart for us all the way through the different companies, and we started tothink about how we would leverage it there. Now that stage, once you gotacquired by Adobe. So you know this. I was really focused onhow we were going to change that to adobe. It was really their firstexperience, E. enter price selling, weirdly enough, and this was tobeing around two thousand and nine, and so we started introducing Rick in,we started leveraging it in the different organizations I was in, and around twothousand and twelve, when I ran, started up and running the strategic andverticals business of Adobe in North America. And as we progress, it literallytook such a firm hold in what we were doing. You know, wereally leverish it through North America and that then literally went global and every aspectwas tied to it from within, you know, our crm in terms ofhow we were thinking about our account planning, how we were thinking about our opportunityselection. And so when I then came around a year ago, theend of last year, into Zora, is one of you know as amedia and no brainer for me. The first thing I did was pick upthe phone say Rick Okay, lead you back in here. You know,we've got at the global team here that needs to be introduced to it andit really, I think, Chad to the point. You need to havea standard terminology and a standard language and it's got tied to the sales processand it's got to be tied to the value we bring to our customers andour partners to and from a SAS perspective and Enterprise Fast Company, you needto be thinking and getting your head around your customers as much as your prospects, and it comes through your customers,...

...and so that's why the value youbring is the most important word in my mind, in the whole sort ofsales motion. Absolutely, if we're not focused on what is bringing value,value to the individuals we're talking to, we're missing the mark, especially consideringeverybody to day. Once it's something that's focused on them once what they want, when they want it, how they want it, where they want it. If we don't have a buying motion or selling motion that aligns with that, there's often a disconnect and there's you know, there's a lot of thingsout there. I'm not going to bash the competition, but I am curiousto know, you know, other all the options that you chose, youcould have chose. You chose value something, and I'm curious what you found aboutit to be so compelling. I'll tell you what I've found about itbe so so compelling is that, first of all, there is a simplicityto the value prompter. There's a simplicity to the tools that you use,but with in that there is incredible depth. Right. There's definitely it's not justI learn it overnight and off I go. There is a lot ofin you know, depth that needs to be done around it. But someof the other ones are really, really complex in terms of the number ofdifferent tools or the number of different pieces, or they only get very operational.and to me, what I like about it, it's always been mytort track to my cells organization, and actually not just the sales organization,actually bring it into a personal aspect, which is you've got to look throughthe eyes of the person you're speaking to, and one of them just mean it'slike when they wake up in the morning, what is their thoughts?One of their goals? What's happening in their life? What are they thinkingabout? What is critical to them? Because if you can understand that,then you can starts to make sure that what's your commute, the communication youhave with them is tied into what they're thinking about, the terminology that they'regoing to use, the goals that they have for the day, the concernsthat they have for the day, what they're doing in their work life,the how it's impacted from their personal aspects, and I think the value prompts arereally tunes into that. It's got all of the classic needs you havewithin a methodology, but it also really tunes you into looking through the eyesof the person you're speaking to, and we all know that in sales andin any parts of life. If you can do that then it really resonates. So you know it's to me and the other way you can say itis this is it helps me to go from an inside out view. Ithink many of the other ones can tend to be inside out. In ourtech is the best. These are functions and features and this is why youshould be buying us and everything else, but you need to go from anoutside in view and what does that company really need to do right and howthey're going to measure that success of their company's goals and the objectives. Rightat the very top of the CEO is telling the market if they're public oror you can really find out, and then ensuring for each person you're speakingto that they're understanding how they're going to impact that that Uber business issue.So to me it's like leading, talking in the right language in order toget to the power right because when you do, when you speak about theirbusiness, you know they want to listen. By May you speak about Your Business. It's like, you know, another vendor. So you turn thataround. Is really important. So, you know, getting in differentiating it, tying it to what's really tangible value, how they're going to get measured,both as a company and even personally, you know, and then you cantie into the mutual plan. And then it takes you back again.It always really sort of puts you back. You don't get too far into itthat you don't go back to say do I understand that is you,do I understand what's important to them? Has It changed for them? Andagain all of that comes back to being...

...time bound. So, you know, for me it's really critical and it's just sort of you know, someof the ways I would say, okay, this all sounds great, Robbie,but then what does it mean materially to you? And I think thatfor me, the it really helps me in forecast certainty right, and it'sreally helped me to do that. I think the closed plans become really materialbecause they're really mutual and you're forcing it and it's you know, the biggestpiece to me is how do I maximize the size of the deal, notjust because it's functions and features and that's how we measure and these are metrics, but how can I actually tie the share of wallet I get from thecustomer associal agent with the value that I'm going to bring to the customer?And I'll salt that chat because I saw, I saw getting getting rolling. So, oh no, it's all good, it's all good. It is youraise a good point, right. It isn't just about a sales conversationthat the tools that we have a tendency to work with customers on work acrossthe board to help someone consistently understand another person's perspective, which is why wehave a tendency to train, you know, customer success teams and sales engineers andanything any any place along the revenue funnel where there has to be thatconsistent application of terminology and approach to consistently uncover and connect to another person's perspectiveand forecast accreacies always a big one for companies. That that way the CFOdoesn't hate the sales organization that the more precise we can be in our forecast, the better off the business is. But I'm curious, can you,when you think about, you know, amateur adobe and Naswara, can youshare some of the results that you've seen? You know, what of the teamswere you or yourself being able to accomplish by relying on the framework?Well, I think the the you know, one of the big pieces to meis also, you know, you get on the free I'll thought atthe beginning of the judge. You get on various full cost coals and youmay be saying, so what's going on here? And there's the normal fluff. Well, you know, we spoke to this person and you know that, just being on holiday over here, it's about a ton and it's likecaught the fly off. And let's get to the point of don't sell meon the day or right. That's not mutually good for either of us.Help me to understand where you feel you've got holes in the opportunity and thisso I can help you. R'd. So it takes around from many methodologiesare there because they think I'll management needs the methodology so they can tip theirboxes and do whatever else. I want to turn it around to being avalue to the sales team as to how we can help them. So whatit's ended up doing is turned the forecast call into sometimes being a fearful callto a valuable call to the field and IT sets them up with leaving withthat's a great idea. Why don't we go here? Or Gosh, youhad that experience before from some other part of the organization or whatever else.And so using the terminology keeps its too things. So you know, youknow, I really understand the differentiated vision matches, because there's this and thisis. That's great, but you know, I'm struggling to get to power overhere. I know what the value is, but I don't know howto do it. Okay, let's let's focus on that area, or Ican't determine, I can't get out of something which is really conserviable about thebusiness value will bring or the personal it. So it allows you to focus onthe airs, which means it cuts down the time on the whole forecastcall. You know, how's this deal going, instead of getting the stillshaggy dog story. Rather than that, where you do is you get tothe point of these the areas that I need help with them focus. Sothat is a huge piece that. It cuts down the time for everyone.You know, what I always talk about is sales calories and you just don'twant to burn sells calories in the wrong places. So you want to cutdown the time, get them back in front of their customers, in frontof their prospects, in front of their partners, and so that does that. The other one is being my forecasting accuracy has been immeasurably better. Butwhen you tied into the various staging or...

...some kind of a customer process thatyou're going through and you have that same language, everyone knows what it meansand it means again, from we're looking at really enterprise deals, it takesa village, but if you have trained the Essys and you have trained theC stems, and even if you know the services teams, they understand it. Everyone's talking the same language. Says, not miscommunication. People understand the strategyin the direction. So that's been a really important piece of it.I'd say the deal clinics and things like that, and when people are doingthe managers are doing their own reviews. Again, we can actually get infront of it and do some pre reviews, so they actually get into that andthey know where the area is that we need to focus on and it'stied to the same stories, tied to the same terminology. So we justget so much more productivity of focusing the right areas. And then I thinkgoing, you know, all the way through, one of the challenges that'salways there is you do all this some amazing pre cell work and you buildour eyes and you you really understand them and then you sell it and thenyour side, now we're going to deliver it, and everyone walks away andyou felt expectations of what the value is and you need to carry that on. And so it's the challenge to make sure that you then don't just goand implement technology in a standard way, but you're doing it with a waythat you're constantly say no, no, we shouldn't do that. There wasn'tthe value that you're expecting to get. And just those little pieces means thatyou keep the attention of the customer and their team all the way through itso when they come out the end you can start baslizing against the value,which really honestly leads back in to an opportunity to come back from the gainand say we've achieved this value. Great for attention, but now we thinkthey trust you to say, okay, that's really well proven. I couldshow my own organization what I've done. Let's now look at the next thing. You've become much more of a trust and partner by being able to showthem that you've done what you said you would do. So there's just justsome of the examples. Chad. That's brilliant. And so when you thinkabout, you know, the other elements of it, there are a lotof people will ask. You know, we get asked all the time,like what's the standard kind of threshold for increase in deal size or margins,or how fast? You know, how fast does it? Does it increasethe sales velocity, or what about win rates and things like that. Nowanybody wants to go back and look at the revenue increases of the other companiesthat you've been at, could pretty much go back and say, you know, we can see it having that impact. I'm curious when when you see thereps and your managers using it and they turn around and go hey,wow, the light bulb just went on, like I get it now, Iunderstand why we're doing it. What are they coming to you with andpointing to? Is it he's of use? Is it he's of communicating with acustomer? Maybe deal size or something like that, when you think abouthow it actually comes to life in your organization. So I would say thething that when the light that's a really good point. Chat the lightbulb goingoff and they go I get it, I get it along lass, Isee it. I'd say the first one is the wind rate right, andit also does lead you to qualify out early. So the wind rate definitelyhas a significant impact. I think the fork, I go back to theforecasting accuracy that they really know that side. The other one I would say isthat you end up setting the the the ASV, so the setting valueof the actual deal goes up significantly, and that's what I've seen because peoplestop setting just buy for a price, but they're setting against the value thatthey can show, and so it means that the negotiations to be we holdour price much, much better. We don't just get commoditized because every timethey say, well, I would, I want to pay that, wewant an extra discount of this, you can say yeah, but the problemwith that is that the value you associated...

...with this. You agree with that. That's what you're trying to do. So it allows the negotiations for usto hold our price. That is the other one. And the other piecethat I think is really is the time to close. So the time toclose is vastly improved because you create the anxiety within them, because you understandthe value. You can start to articulate that every month that goes by,this is actually what it's going to be costing you right in terms of yourvision or your strategy or the competition to come up where you're losing market share, whatever the businesses you may be. You keep returning to that and actuallyputs more emphasis on we've got to get through legal we got to get throughthe procurement side, like we're wasting time on these pieces. So that's anotherone. I would say it's time to close. Love it. And whenyou think about the Times that you've implemented the framework. If somebody were toask you some other cro who struggling right now, we're thinking about me.I don't know if I can tackle this. What are the top three things youwould say we're key to your success in each in each instance. Forthe first one I would say is it has to come from the top,like as high as you can get it right. Definitely has to come fromthe sales or the CRO or however you're set up, but that has tocome from the very top. That means they got to believe. Got Tohave the leader believing in it, asking about it, reinforcing it. Andif you can, which I've had great success in doing, is get itall the way to the ECOMP to your executive team, to your CEO Right. So again, you know, that's something that we do. If wedo a briefing for one of our executives, it's all in the valley setting terminology. So they start to start asking about it and then they start,you know, they also come up and the CEO says, but I don'tunderstand the business value, and it's like that reinforces that. It's not justsay you know part of the story, but everyone is absorbing it. Ithink the other one is again where you make fluency. For me is wheneverI look at the sales process, whether you're using, you know, asales force or whatever else, and you've got your stages defined and everything.The exit criteria for the stages is defined around your valley setting motions or ifyou have a gus customer engagement process, again those parts of it, valleysetting is weaved into it. So you're constantly using the language. And Ithink the third area that I've always done is not just make it on anisland. Right. So I've made sure that a product markting organization or ProductManagement Organization, let them, you have a taste, let them have sometraining, let them understand it, because guess what, they're going to beproducing the content that you're going to want to use it. You're they're goingto be thinking now not about the function features that they need to create,but what is the value those will create for the sales team can use.So we've I've always had literally the the product management team. They were therelike ground three or four months or they just went through the training product marketingso that when they produce the content. It almost aligns to the value prompterconcept. So it makes it easier and more fluid for the sales teams tobe able to leverage it, even marketing alliances and the other big one,customer success, against such a critical piece, especially in the SASS world, bybecause people can, you know, multitending, crowd based solution. Youknow, can they have? You know, retention is critical. It's a basedon the value you bring. And so again, having those vady discussionsnaturally leads into a renewal, naturally leads into the next up cell. Andso you know, we've done that and the you know, the best peopleat it. So are your stres hid the people you're they're doing that andhonestly they've always been the best because they come in typically then the fighting morejunior. They come in cleaner, they get it. They get it somuch quicker than the cells team, than the A he's often do. Andfor them, again, it's a huge...

...career and learning piece. Are Yourtraining them on a way of thinking. Wherever they go, whether it's withinyour own business or else where. It's a great city be so I wereinvesting in you. So those are three I think it's got to come fromthe top. I think it's got to be absolutely fluidly part of your cellsprocess, every single part of that in terms of the language, and it'sgot to tie into the other functions around you so that everyone is thinking inthat way. You got to go all in. Yeah, yeah, eitherget in or get out. Yeah, perfect. And so we're in avery unusual time right now. The world is kind of upside down. Well, with the pandemic and things that the impact that that's having on business.I know in March we reinvested in redesigning all of our virtual training from theground up to use the latest and greatest and I know rick has been workingwith you to do some of these trainings in a virtual environment. I'm curioushow the teams responded to them or kind of your I mean, I wouldI'm with you. I think we would all love to be doing this inperson, but have you seen the team still respond positively, seen the kindof impacts you would expect from that continued virtual engagement? Well, first off, fly hats off to you guys, because you really will like you reactedso quickly to the change in the environment and I think a lot of salesorganizations have not reacted. They still get on a on a call and doa you know, a powerpoint presentation on a one hour call and you justI've sat that. I just watch all the videos go off and then,you know, your learning how to get you know, excuse me, butwhat do you think of that? You have to call people out. Soyou got to change it into short of snippets and keep people's attention and stopthem doing the multitasking that we're all drawn into doing and these these sort ofvirtual worlds. So no one that speedy did. It was really good.The the the also the ability to keep reinforcing it. So that's what Ireally liked about you know, when I've worked for your you guys, isit's not just the one off training, it's the willingness to come back inand say, you know, honestly, you're like customer success people. Youcome in and you reinforced because the more we use it, the more wesuccess we get out of it. Guess what, the more we come backto do more training with you. And I think you do a really goodjob of it, like you'd constantly coming back in do this thing in todeal with these reminding people that and in this virtual world this is something thatyou can do even more so, right because people aren't on the road asmuch. They haven't got excuses of I mean this and this and I'll betraveling and whatever else. So that's been good. And then the last pieceto it is you always still focus on making sure you teach. You know, trying the trainer and we're not trying the trainerver teach the managers how todo this. So I think the tool has adapted to the online world incrediblywell. You know, there is some there was some pieces that we allmissed, right, the human interaction we all miss sure, and so youknow we're never going to get away from that. But in terms of howwe adapt to it, I think you've done an amazing job and you hiton a key component. They're the managers, right. We have a tendency,and I'm sure you've heard rick or even myself say, if we're notgoing to be working with the managers to help drive that adoption and retention,and then we know it's not going to be as successful as it could be. You mentioned starting at the top, but I'm curious, even as we'vegone into a virtual world and we're really relying even more so on the managers. How have you been working with them or enabling them or supporting them inthis virtual world to ensure they continue to apply the things that they've been taught? So what we've done is we do two things. One is we dodeal clinics, right, so that is we will literally have the ecosystem aroundthe deal. So I've always organized my team's in what we in this placewe call them pods, right, so everyone who is going to be workingin the sales process or even the post sale are focused in pods around thecustomer, so that when we do a...

...deal review we have that whole poton it, and that means the managers and I will often get involved partybecause it's my favorite part of my job and I miss it if I don't. But it's also the place where you really get to get the feeding forit and you can brainstorm that around. But we do it with the vaddysetting model in place, so all of the way that they'll present it tous will be through the valley prompter. If they've got to go into deptharound it, they'll still be divined defined around those different areas. So we'vekept them involved that. And then the second part of it is we dowhat we call renewal rallies by which is looking at our customer base and welook out at least a year ahead to all of our renewals because, becauseare renewal is the most compelling time to actually be able to do it.You know, it's the one time you know you have timing in place tobe able to do a deal, and so we make sure that we're revealingthose. And again, a lot of it is making sure they're using thelanguage, using the terminology to do it. And again it's a non stop youhave to keep reinforcing because you've got new people coming in and they've gotto hear it and hear it and hear it. And, like anything else, it takes repetition and consistency to make sure that it's so thin. Andto begin with it's always really difficult for them. Right. It's the youknow that, you know you get to this. You go through the motion, right, you go through this sort of understanding where you're unconsciously incompetent,you've not had the training. You get to the place where you start torealize, well, there is this conscious incompetence. You get to the stageafter that where you get to conscious competence where it's still really hard. Youstill got to go through what is the value, what is the problem,what is the solution? And then you get to that unconscious competence where itdoesn't seem the borious, it doesn't seem to take all the time in theworld, it's not perceived as a management overhead and it's just the way they'redoing it and they get really excited. Everyone's using the same terminology, everyoneunderstands what they mean, everyone challenging each other around it. That's where youwant to get to, because that also becomes fun and that's what really motivatesthe people. Yeah, and it's the fun element that we that I personally, and I know rick as well, enjoy seeing as people have that,you know, that light bulb moment they see it have an impact for themon their deals or in the way they interact with other people on the teamand they see the efficiency that the team can can gain by all sharing thatsame language and being able to focus in a very consistent way on that,on that value that you're providing to the the prospect of the buyer. NowI would be remiss if I didn't ask me, because we're talking what forcompanies now that you've implemented value something, I think. So I'd be remissif I didn't ask what. What keeps you coming back, aside from ricksgood looks, what keeps? What keeps you coming back? I think oneof thing is it is the passion and the belief is there. Right,comes from you, it comes from Rick, right, he you know, peoplecan get to they vy that. I well and I said, Lee, I wanted you to get rick to come onto a call about a dealand Thek know we you know, Zora, it's about what we're doing here andhe doesn't understand that side of it. And so I told get him onthe deal and he comes in and literally they just get so much valuebecause the questions that he asks makes them think about it in a different way. So the passion and the belief is there, because I can get onany call, it doesn't matter. I can give it and I can addvalue. Right. I think the other one is to me, it's aframework that is easy. I can see the framework in my head during aconversation. I can, you know, go backwards and forwards, but Ican check it. It's got the simplicity to it but, as I said, a depth to it. You know, the better and better you get it, that you can get more and more skills, that you will createsome best practices around it. All right, but it takes that Alemans out ofit. You know, you know.

Business issue is example. I wouldsay the business issue is the one that I always find people have thebiggest challenge with. Right. They really find it hard to say oh,because they need to upgrade, oh, because it's like no, and no, that's not the business issue, and I think that training them on that, that is a lightbulb moment when they understand the business issue and then theycan apply everything they're thinking to that. It starts to become really easy.I also like the way you guys do the training, you game of fire, and so people do go in there and they do have fun with it. It doesn't feel like it's laborious, it doesn't feel like I have togo and do all these things. So there's a again, it's that mixtureof simplicity at the top but huge depth when you really get going with it. And I think the other one is when I go in, you know, whether it's, you know, adobe or wherever it is, there iscredibility that it just makes damn good sense. I once explain it as so your. Why wouldn't you think like that? Why wouldn't you approach it like that? And it's not like some of them, more simplistic ones that youcan get into, they just are very operational. They don't have the depth. They're very surface level. On the other ones that you can get into, they're so deep and laborious in terms of what you need to complete thatyou start to lose the reason as to why you're doing it. And Ithink it sits really well between easy to comprehend but with the death that goeswith it. And the other piece that I really like is you make itvery relevant when you're doing the training, leveraging use cases, you know,examples that really resonate and challenges that make you say, well, why wouldyou think of it like this? Why can't you just slightly twist it intothe thinking of it like this? And then again it's another release moment whenthey go our. I get it, I get it. So there's aresome of the reasons why I keep coming back to it and the way alsoit fits. You know, if you went and to someone in in outsideof seals, how I need to look at this methodology that you know,my God, I'm to throw up. I'm not doing that. But whenyou say here's this simplicity, they go okay, I get that. Nowthey may be looking at it still to surface level, but it's good enoughbecause the terminology makes sense and is easy to replicate. So that's a bigpart of it. Perfect. And so let's talk about this war for asecond for our audience. help us understand what's the word does and who youguys are targeting and selling to out there. Well, it's really it's a it'sjust been super exciting. It took an awful lot to take me fromthe clutches of Adobe. You know, it's absolutely laughs, but I thinkthat the Zora's what's or does? Zora provides a fast solution for subscription managementbidding and also for revenue, for subscription management of building and Revenue Automation.You think, what's what's that about, and it's like this is the factof why it's exciting is because it impacts the customer experience, especially for companieswho are trying to think about how do I get into a recurring revenue businessmodel? Right, so many companies are now wish they had a recurring revenuebusiness model, especially in this climber right, because people that signed up, they'reon a subscription, they're doing that, and so it's not just the financeaspect, but it is a tool that allows you to think about,well, how do I upsell people? So one of the motions what's theexperience have? And the most important experience for anyone, any of the ourcustomers, customers, is when they have to part with their money, butthey've got to make a decision to spend more money, and this is whereyou've got to have the best experience, and so you need something that hasreal agility. A lot of our customers, a WHO can name some of these, like the sort of zooms or the docky signs, or you canthink about fender, the Guitar Company, like when the whole covid situation happened, they had to change right or there...

...to really rapidly be able to sayhey, I need to now change my pricing. Maybe what I need todo to retain everyone is allow them to have a certain period and no cost, or let them have further access, or I'm going to, you know, allow them to do changes. Really you need that to happen with thereal agility. So as doesn't mean it goes to ricode. They got toreally do that with absolute ease and our customers could do that and they retaintheir customers, their customers very, very well through doing that. It needsto be automated. So don't become this whole sort of you know, ifI go into a typical other for any ARP or ceramic, can be reallymanual. Right, it's hardcoded, I'm going to get it in, it'sgoing to do old change requests. So you need to have at all.That's really focused on the concept of subscription and what I loved about it isthat we are subscription to us in a data model is defined around a customer, not around a product. And if you think about how people have alwaysbuild, normally it's based around the product. This is based around the customer.So in last piece to it is you can think about the insights thatcan come out. I start to know when someone might be trending towards achurn. I know when someone's trending towards an up cell. So the Roiaround it becomes really significant and it is a transformation for people. If you'rea manufacturer, who's one of our key markets, you're not used to settingdirects, your contin direct to consumer to how do you change that mentality?How do you change the way you think about the offerings, because it goesfrom what is really something, which is an ownership, as in I owna product, I own a physical object, to actually use a ship, andso it's a journey to use a ship and the whole story around usershipis difference to ownership and that is where people are going, that is whereour kids are going, that's where our kids kids will be going. ThatI want to own things. They want to be able to use things whenthey want to. So you need to have a different angle mentality on doingthat. So manufacturings big for us. Media is very big for us.Technology is where we come from right in terms of the tech who are fast? Companies are doing it, but what we're seeing is a ton of otheruse cases and to retail into financial services, into the most unbelievable ball bearing toall sorts of things where people are turning them around to be something wherepeople can just pay for using them, not having to own them. Soagain, for us, and it's a big piece, selling into the CFODER, the CEO, but also more and more into the business and the crowas an example, is they used. They look for new markets that theycan, with a Gidity, get into. Yeah, and that focus. Ilike that subtle shift of it's about the customer, right, and Ithink that's why the vassling framework aligne so well, because that's also what we'refocused on. But that subtle shift of thinking into that subscription economy, Ithink is going to be great. I think your positioned amazingly well. Iam a stock owner, by the way, but I'm just saying so trying tomake sure you guys are as successful as possible, and so I wantto be respectful of time. You remember this from last time. We askall of our guests two standard questions at the end of each interview. Firstis simply, as a cerrow that makes you a prospect for a lot ofindividuals out there. Always curious to know if somebody doesn't have a trusted referralinto you, what works for you to capture your attention and earn the rightto time on your calendar to talk to you about potential ways they may beable to help you, it has to be to me. It has tobe a message that comes from the fact that they've actually done some research andit's just not a canned thing that comes out. It has to peel tome. And then that's let's have some kind of resonance with the goals ofthe situation that I made, and the more that they've done some research wherethey can tie to some things, the...

...more intrigued on going to be asto what it is that they have and when it comes out in that way, that's interesting. But if it's purely can bang in the trash right,so it's really really easy. So and I think the other one is alittle bit of persistence. Not Annoying, but a little bit of persistence,which is again, I understand who you are and I've asked you about this. Why when you respond to me, that's a that's that's good. Idon't mind a bit of squeakiness in there and I don't find out. Ifind that good and I don't need commendable, but obviously not too much. Soa bit of reasonable persistence. Love it. And so last question.We call it our acceleration and say there's one thing you could tell sales orprofessional service people, one piece of advice you could give them that you believewould help them hit their targets? What would it be and why? Well, apart from the obvious one, which is you'll make a lot of body, I think that the the biggest space is I think it's the the givethem the ability to say consistency with the ability for creativity all I like.Right. So you you have to get to a place where they understand there'san operational aspect to it, there's a defined process, but the quickie youadopt it, the quicker it becomes what I call that unconscious competence. Butyou just don't even didn't take time anymore because that's how you're thinking, andyou've got to be really dogmatic about that. On the other hand, really Iwant to encourage people to take risks, like go out of the box.Right. So, if you're used to process, all those complaints goaway. Like hygiene, data hygiene. How many times we all say arelike, if you don't have good data hygiene, I don't think you're credible. I'm going to have to investigate your data. I don't want to spendmy time doing that. Right. You don't want me to spend time doingthat to get it right. Once you get it right, we can moveon to good bits. All right. So for every ask, make surelook you know where it's going to impact them. So I'm on concept.Come back to my sales calories by I'm asking you to do this because it'sgoing to give you time back, it's going to give you some personal productivitygain and it's important. So when I put something out there, I willalways show them this is why it's needed, but this is what you're going toget in return. It's not just for my satisfaction and my reporting.I love it. Robbie, I can't thank you enough for taking time tobe on the show day. If people are interested in learning more about aswar, as website the best place to go, or someplace else you wantus to send them, well, absolutely our website, or if they wantto get in touch for me, you know, veracious user of Linkedin andalways happy to len answer people's questions and so awesome. Thank you again fortaking the time. Really appreciate you. Carven some out for us now,Chad, as always a real delight. Thank you all right, everybody thatdoes it. For this episode, check us out a be tob REV exactcom, share with friends, family, Co workers, let your kids listen toit instead of watching screens, and until next time, we have value sellingassociates. With you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to theBB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribeto the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so muchfor listening. Until next time,.

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