The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 10 months ago

The Power of a Value-Based Sales Methodology w/ Robbie Traube

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Prospects are bombarded daily with messages pressuring them to buy.

That can get pretty exhausting. 

Even if you’ve got a product they need, people don’t buy products. They buy the results the product will give them.

You’re in sales; your job is to sell. I get it. 

But what if selling for the sake of selling wasn’t your primary goal? What if providing value was your focus? 

I caught up with repeat guest Robbie Traube, CRO at subscription economy leader Zuora, to discuss the power of the ValueSelling Framework® for scaling sales organizations.

We also talked about:

  • How Robbie started using the ValueSelling Framework and his relationship with it throughout his career
  • The biggest results Robbie has seen from relying on the ValueSelling Framework.
  • How value selling comes to life in an organization.
  • How to ensure sales teams continue to apply sales frameworks in a virtual world.

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Robbie Traube, CRO at Zuora.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

 

You need to have a standard terminologyin a standard language and it's got tied to the sales proucess and it's gotto be tied to the value we bring to our customers and our partners. You're. Listening to the DTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated helpin executives train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies, or tools and resources. You come to the right place.Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcome everyone to the btobrevenue executive experience. I'm your host Chad Sanderson today we're talkingabout the power and importance of a sales framework for scaling salesorganizations and how to keep the growth going during unpredictable times.A lovely cliche phrase we're all getting way too familiar with to helpus. We have with US Robbi TRAVA CRO as or Robbie thank so much for taking timeand welcome back to the show hean very, very happy to be back. Thank you forhaving me. Yes, you are our official first repeat guest, and so I just wantto take a second to recognize and say how much I appreciate your support andwillingness to give us a little bit more time. Not at all this is I like tobe there as be the early person, so that's good all right. So for those who may not beaware, Robbie was one of our first guest on the show when we started thispodcast about three years ago, so he's affectionately. What we referred to asa repeat friend, meaning throughout his career Robbie, has actually broughtvalueselling to several companies. So for context, I was just wondering Robbiif you would run down kind of your relationship with valueselling as it'sprogressed through your career sure I mean it's really interesting. For me, Imean I first came across baddy setting when I was running ovel sales, a company calledMICARDO. I think that was way back when in two thousand and five and then fromthere I went to Omnatare and at omito thers been around two thousand andeight and we started definding variousings and every way I thoughtabout. You know howas going to look at the cells methodology. All my head keptcoming back to the framework around Valo Salin, and so in the end I gotconnected back with reck. It's so been a storewart for us all the way throughthe different companies, and we started to think about how he would leverage itthere and that stage oostyo got acquired by Adobi. So you know this. Iwas really focused on how we were going to change that to Adobi was reallytheir first experience of enterprise selling re weirdly enough, and this wasto been around two thousand and nine, and so we started introduceing Reckan.We started leveraging it in the different organizations. I was in around two thousand and twelve when Idran started up and running the strategic, an pheticals business of adobe in North America and as we progress it literally took such a firmhold in what we were doing. You know we really leveshed it throug North America,an it then literally went global and every aspect was tied to it from within.You know our crm in terms of how we were thinking about our CCOUNT planning,how we were thinking about our opportunity, selection, and so when Ithen came around a year ago, the end of last year into Zora Hias Ron. You knows immedia and no brainer. For me, the first thing I did was pick up. Thephone say: Rick, okay, EBE back in here, you know: We've got a e global teamhere that needs to be introduced to it, and- and I really, I think, char to thepoint- you need to have a standard terminologyin a standard language and it's got tied to the sales process and it's gotto be tied to the value we bring to our customers and our partners too, andfrom assaspepective an enterprise SAS company. You need to be thinking andgetting your head around your customers...

...as much as your prospects and it comesthrough your customers, and so that's why the value you bring is the mostimportant words in my mind in the whole sort of sales motion. Absolutely ifwe're not focusd on what is bringing value value to the individuals. We'retalking to we're missing the mark, especially considering everybody todaywants, is something that's focused on them once what they want when they wantit, how they want it where they want it. If we don't have a buying motion orselling motion that aligns with that there's often a disconnect and there'syou know, there's a lot of things out there, I'm not going no bash thecompetition, but I am curious to know you know of the all the options thatyou chose you could have chose. You chose valueselling and I'm curious whatyou found about it to be so compelling I tell Yo what I found about is be soso compelling is that, first of all, there is a simplicity to the Badyprompter, there's a simpiscity to the tools that you use, but within thatthere is incredible depth. Biht there's. Definitely it's not te Tar! Oh, I learnit overnight and off I go. There is a lot of n. You know depths that needs tobe done around it, but some of the other ones are really really complex interms of the number of different souls or the number of different pieces, orthey only get very operational and to me what I like about it. An it's alwaysbeen my tout track to my Celles organization, and actually not just thesales organization, actually bring it into a personal aspect, which is you've,got to look through the eyes of the person you're speaking to, and that ofthem just mean it's like when they wake up in the morning. What is theirthoughts whate of their goals, what's happening in their life? What Ave theythinking about? What is critical to them? Because if you can understandthat, then you can start to make sure that whats, your Commut, thecommunication you have with them is tied into what they're thinking aboutthe terminology that they're going to use the goals that they have for theday. The concerns that they have for the day, what they're doing in theirwork life, but how it's impacted from their personal aspects, and I think thevalley promptser really tunes into that. It's got all of the classic needs youhave within a methodology, but it also really tunes you into looking throughthe eyes of the person you're speaking to, and we all know that in sales andin any parts of life. If you can do that, then it really resonates. So youknow to me, and the other way you can say it is. This is helps me to go froman inside out view. I think many of the other ones can tend to be inside out.You ARTECH is the best. These are our functions and features, and this is whyyou should be buying us and everything else, but you need to go from anoutside interview. What does that company really need to do right and howthey going to measure the success of their companyes goals and the objectinsright at the very top of the CO is telling the market, if theyre public orwhat you can really find out and then ensuring for each person, you'respeaking to they're understanding how they're going to impast that that UBAbusiness issup? So to me, it's like leading talking in the right languagein order to get to the power right, because when you do, when you speakabout their business, you know they want to listen? U Man! You Speak AboutYour Business, it's like Thiiso N, another vendor, so you turn that aroundis really important. So you know getting in differentiating it tying itto what's really tangible Vadu how they're going to get measured both as acompany and even personally, you know, and then you can tine t the mutual plan,and then it takes you back again. It always resort of puts you back. Youdon't get too far into it, but you don't go back to say. Do I understandthat issue? Do I understand what's important to them? Has It changed forthem and again all of that comes back...

...to being timebound, so you know for me it's really critical and it's just Otot. You know some of the ways I would say. Okay, this all sounds Great Robbie,but then what does it mean materially to you, and I think that for me the itreally helps me in forecast certainty right, and it's really helped me to todo that. I think the close plans become really material because they're reallymutual and you're forcing it and it's you know the biggest piece to me is howdo I maximize the size of the deal? Not just because it's functions andfeatures and that's how we measure- and these are our metrics. But how can Iactually tie the share of Wallet I get from the customer associated with theValu that I'm going to bring to the customer and I'll stop ther chat,because I saw I starte getting going rolling. So, oh, no, it's all good,it's a good it is you raise a good point right. It isn't just about asales conversation tha, the tools that we have a tendency to work withcustomers on work across the board to help someone consistently understandanother person's perspective, which is why we have a tendency to train. Youknow: Customer Success Teams and sales engineers and anything an anyplacealong the revenue funnel where there has to be that consistent applicationof terminology and approach to consistently uncover and connect toanother person's perspective and forecast Acturacis, always a big onefor companies that that way. The CFO doesn't hate the sales organization Tha,the more precise we can be in our forecast to better off the businesses.But I'm curious: Can you when you think about you, know Omateur Dobe an Nausura.Can you share some of the results that you've seen? You know what Ofe theteams for you or yourself been able to accomplish by relying on the framework I thinkte, the you know. One of the bigpieces to me is also. You know you get on Theforfruii'll start at thebeginning of the journey you get on various forecast, corls and you may besaying so what's going on here and there's the normal fluff well, you knowwe spoke to this person and you know they're just been on holiday overhereso about the time and it's like cat, the FAGF and let's get to the point ofdon't sell me on the deal right. That's not usually good for either of US helpme to understand where you feel you've got holes in the opportunity a thin. SoI can help you right, so it takes around from many methodologies or therebecause they think all management needs. The methodology, so they can take theirboxes and do whatever else. I want to turn it around to being a value to thesales team as to how we can help them. So what I ended up doing is turn eforecast call into sometimes being a fearful call so of valuable call to thefield, and it sets them up with leaving with that's a great idea. Why don't wego here or Gosh Syou had that experience before from some other partof the organization or whatever else, and so using the terminology keeps itto sing. So you know you know, I really understand the differentat divisionmatches, because this this- and this is that'st great, but you know I'mstruggling to get to power over here. I know what the value is, but I don'tknow how to do it. Okay, Le Le's focus on that area, or I can't determine Ican't get out of something which is really consuvivable about the businessFanu Al Bring or the cursol o allows you to focus on theirs, which means itcuts down the time on the whole forecast corl. You know how' this dealgoing instead of getting the O Shaggy Dog story rather than that. What you dois you get to the points of these, the areas that I need help with and focus.So that is a huge piece that it cuts down the time for everyone. You knowwhat I always talk about is sales calories and you just don't want toburn sales calories in the wrong places, so you want to cut down the time, getthem back in front of their customers in front of their prospects in front oftheir partners, and so that does that the other one is Bein. My forecastingaccuracy has been immeasurably better.

We when you tired into the variousstaging or some kind of a customer process that you're going through andyou have that same language. Everyone knows what it means and it means againfrom we're. Looking at really enterprise deals. It takes a village,but if you have trained the SSEASON, he had traind the CSMS, and even we knowthe services teams. They understand it. Everyone's talking the same languagesays not miscommunication people understand the strategy in thedirection. So that's been a really important piece of it. Ind say the dealclinix and things like that and when peoplea doing the managers are doingtheir own reviews again, we can actually get in front of it and do somepre reviews, so they actually get into that and they know where the areas thatwe need to focus on and it's tied to the same stories tied to the sameterminology. So we just get so much more productivity of focusing the rightareas and then I think going you know all the way through one of thechallenges. That's always there is you do all this amazing precell work andyou build ourive and you you really understand them, and then you sell itand then Yo's like now we're going to deliver it and everyone walks away andyous set expectations of what the value is and you need to carry that on, andso it's the challenge to make sure that you ton don't just go and implementtechnology in a standard way, but you're doing it with a way that you'reconstantly say no. No, we shouldn't do that. Het wasn't the value that youereexpecting to get, and just those little pieces means that you keep theattention of the customen their team all the way through it. So when theycome out of the end, you can start base lising against the value which reallyhonestly leads back in to an opportunity to come back to the Gan andsay: We've achieved this value great for attention, but now we think theytrust you to say. Okay, that's really well proven. I could show my ownorganization what I've done. Let's now look at the next thing, you become muchmore of a trusted partner by being able to show them that you've done what yousaid, you would do so ther's. Just just some of the examples chat, that'sbrilliant, and so, when you think about you know the other elements of ittheres a lot of people will ask you know we get ask all the time like.What's the standard kind of threshold for Increasein deal size or margins orhow fast you know, how fast does it does it increase the sales velocity orwhat about win rates? And things like that? Now anybody wants to go back andlook at the revenue increases of the other companies that you've been atcould pretty much go back and say you know we can see it having that impact.I'm curious when, when you see the reps and your managers using it and theyturn around and go hey wow, the light bulb just went on like I get it now. Iunderstand why we're doing it? What are they coming to you with and pointing to?Is it ease of use? Is it he's of communicating with a customer, maybedeal size or something like that when you think about how it actually comesto life in your orgaanzation? So I would say the thing that when thelike, that's a really good point chat, the light bulb going off and they go. Iget it, I did it along, laugh it it I'd, say the first one is the win rate rightand it also does lead you to quarify out early, so the win rate definitely has asignificant impact. I think the folk I go back to the fodecasting accuracy,but they really know that side. The other one I would say is that you endup setting the the the ASB, so the setting value of the actual deal goesup significantly and that's what I've seen, because people stop selling justby POR PRICE, but they're selling against the value that they can show,and so it means that the negotiations a be. We hold our price much much better.We don't just get commodities because every time they say whell, I we're notgant to pay that we want an extra diskind of, as you can say, yeah, butthe problem it to that is that the...

...value associated with Hif. You agreewith that. That's what you're trying to do so it allows the negotiations aousto hold our price. That is the other one and the other piece that I think isreadly is the time to close. So the time to close is vastly improves,because you create the anxiety within them, because you understand the valueyou can start to articulate thei O kno every month that goes by this isactually what it's going to be costing you, but in terms of your vision oryour strategy or the conpetition to come up, we you're losing market Shar,whatever the business issyou may be, you keep returning to that and itactually puts more emphasis on we've got to get through legal. We got to getthrough the Bocuoman side like we're wasting time on these pieces. So that'sanother one I would say is time to close love it and when you think aboutthe Times that you've implemented the framework, if somebody were to ask yousome other cro struggling right now we're thinking about Ma. I don't knowif I can tackle this. What are the top three things you would say were key toyour success in each inencensense, so the first one I would say is it has to come from the top bute ashigh as you can get. It right definitely has to come from the calesor the CRO or, however you're set up, but that has to come from the very topI mean they got to believe, got to have the leader believing in it asking aboutit, reinforcing it and if you can, which I've had great success in doingis Gett it allway to the ECOM to your execitime, your co right. So again, youknow that's something that we do. If we do a briefing for one of our executives,it's all in the valleys setting serminology, so they start to startasking about it and then they start. You know they also come up and the COsays put, I don't understand the business vadio, it's like thatreinforces that it's not just a you know, part of the story, but everyoneis absorbing it. I think the other one is again where you make fluency for me,is whenever I look at the sales process, whether you're using you know a salesforce, ortever else and You'e got your stages defined and everything the exitcriteria for the stages is to find around your rabby steding motions or ifyou have a gus, a customer engagement process again those parts of it Valiesetting is weaved into it. So you're constantly using the language- and Ithink the third area that I've always done is not just make it on an islandright. So I've made sure that a product marking, organization or ProductManagement Organization, let them have a taste, let them have some training.Let them understand it, because guess what they're going to be producing thecontent that you're going to want to use a Jon they're going to be thinkingnow not about the function pizzues that they need to create. But what is thevalue those will create, but the sales team can use so W. I've always hadliterally he the product management team. They were in thelike around threeor four months, a Zor. They just went through the training Protut markting sothat when they produce the content, it almost alignes to the Vamy promptorconcept, so it makes it easier and more fluid for the sales seem to be able toleverage it even marking alliances and the other big one customer successagainst such a critical piece, especially in the fastworld Ri, becausepeople can oryou know maltiten crowd base solution, you know, can they h,you know, retension is critical. It's a based on the value you bring and soagain having those bady discussions naturally leads into. A renewalnaturally leads into the next upsele, and so you know, we've done that andyou know the best people at it. So are your SDRs hide the people yourthey'redoing that and honestly they've always been the best because they come intypically, then I finly more junior. They come in cleaner, they get it. Theyget it so much quicker than the cells...

...team than the AES often do, and forthet we gane it's huge career and learning piece are you're training themon a way of thinking wherever they go. whenher, it's within your own businessor ell swear it's a great fenny, be so we're investing in you. So those arethree. I think its got to come from the top. I think it's gon to be absolutelyfluidly part of your calles process, every single part of that in terms ofthe language, and it's got to tie into the other functions around you so thateveryone is thinking in that way you got to go all in yeah either get in orget out, yeah, perfect and so we're in a very unusual time. Right now theworld is kind of upside down. Well with the pandemic and things that the impactthat that's having on business, I know in March, we reinvested in redesigningall of our virtual training from the groundup to use the lades and greatest-and I know, Rick has been working with you to do some of these trainings in avirtual environment. I'm curious how the teams responded to them or kind ofyour. I mean I would I'm with you. I think we would all love to be doingthis in person, but have you seen the team still respond, positivelyseem, thekind of impact you would expect from that continued virtual engagement, afirt softfly hats off to you guys, because you really were like youreacted so quickly to the change in the environment and I think a lot of salesorganizations have not reacted. They still get on a on a call and do a youknow, a powerfun presentation on a one hour call and you just I sat there andI just watch all the videos go off and then you know you're learning how toget. You know. Excuse me: What do you think of that? You have to call peopleout at you, got to change it into shorter snippits and keep people'sattention and stop them doing the multitasking that we're all drawn intodoing and these these sort of virtual worlds. So no one that speedy did. Itwas really good, the the the also the ability to keep reinforcing it. Sothat's what I really liked about. You know when I workd firh you you guys, isit's not just the one off training, it's the willingness to come back inand say you know, honestly, your like customer success, people you come inand you reinforce because the more we use it the more we success we get outof it. Guess what the more we come back to do more training with you, and Ithink you do a really good job of it like you've, constantly coming back indoing this thing into deal, reviews reminding people that and in Thispirtual world. This is something that you culd do even more so right, becausepeople aren't on the road as much they haven't got excuses of. I mean this andthis and I'll be traveling and whatever else so that's been good and then thelast peace to it is you always still focus on making sure you teach you knowtraing the trainer and we're not trying the train. Eber teach the managers howto do this, so I think that tall has adapted to the online world incredibly.Well, you know there is some. There was some pieces that we all missed right:the human interaction we all miss sure, and so you know we're never going toget away from that. But in terms of how we adapt to it, I think you've done anamazing job and you hit on a key component there, the managers right. Wehave a tendency and I'm sure, you've heard rick or even myself say. If we'renot going to be working with the managers to help drive that adoptionand retention, then then we know it's not going to be as successful as itcould be. You mentioned starting at the top, but I'm curious, even as we'vegone into a virtual world and were really relying even more so on themanagers. How have you been working with them more, enabling them orsupporting them in this virtual world to ensure they continue to apply thethings that they've been taught? So what we've done is we do two thingsone is we do deal clinics right so that is, we will literally have theecosystem around the deal. So I've always organized my teams in what weare in this space. We call them pods, but so everyone who is going to beworking in the sales process or even the post sale are focused in podsaround the customer, so that when we do...

...a deal review, we have the whole pot onit, and that means the managers and I will often get involved partly becauseit's my favorite part of my job and I miss it. If I don't, but it's also thepiace, where you really get to get the feeling for it and you can brainstormthat around. But we do it with the bady setting model in place. So all of thethe way that theyw'll present it so us will be through the Valey promter. Ifthey've got to go into depth around it, hiy'll still be divined to find aroundthose different areas. So we've kept them involved that and then the secondpart of it is we do what we call renewal, rallies Bu, which is lookingat our customer base and whe look out at least a year Ahad to all of ourrenews, because a renowed is the most compelling time to actually be able todo it. You know it's the one time you know you have timing in place to beable to do a deal, and so we made sure that we're reveing, those and again alot of it is making sure they're using the language using the terminology. Todo it and again it's a nonstop. You have to keep reinforcing because you'vegot new people coming in and they've got to hear it and hear it and hear itand, like anything else, it takes repetition and consistency to make surethat it's so sin and to begin with it's always really difficult for them.rightesty. You know that you know you get to this. You go through the motionright. You go through this sort of understanding where you're,unconsciously, incompetent you've not had the training you get to the placewhere you start to realize. Well, O there is this conscious, incompidenceyou get into the stage after that, where you get to conscious competence,where it's still really hard. You still want to go through. What is the value?What is the problem? What is the solution, and then you get to thatunconscious compedence, where it doesn't seem laborious? It doesn't seemto take all the time in the world, it's not perceived as a management overheadand it's just the way they're doing it and they get really excited everyone'susing the same terminology. Everyone understands what they need. Everyonechallenges each other around it, that's where you want to get to, because thatalso becomes fun and that's what really motivates the people yeah and it's thefun element that we that I personally and I know rick as well- enjoy seeingas people have that you know that lightbulb moment they see it have animpact for them on their deals or in the way they interact with other peopleon the team, and they see the efficiency that the team Cancan gain byall. Sharing that same language and being able to focus in a veryconsistent way on that on that value that you're providing to the theprospect or the buyer. Now I would be remisse. If I didn't ask me, becausewe're talking what for companies now that you've implemented balluselling, Ithink so. I'd be remissed. If I didn't ask what what keeps you coming backaside from Rick's good looks what keeps what keeps you coming back. I think one of Thi is, it is thepassion and the belief is there by it, comes from you. It comes from Rick Bithe you know people can getteythey tere like wow, and I said Le Yea. I wantedyou to get recch to come on to a call about a deal and they gay look. We youknow Zoright, it's about. You know what we're doing here and he dodn'tunderstand that side of it. So I to get him on the deal he comes in andliterally they just get so much value, because the questions that he asksmakes them think about it in a different way. So the passion end ofbelief is there because you can get only call it doesn't matter. I can carein and I can add value right. I think the other one is to me it's a frameworkthat is easy. I can see the framework in my head during a conversation. I can,you know, go backwards and forwards, but I can check it. It's got thesimpicity to it, but, as I said, a death to it, you know the better andbetter you get it it. You can get more and more skills that you will createsome best practices around it bi, but...

...it takes that outof ant out of it. Youknow, you know. Business issue is example. I would say the business issueis the one that I always find. People have the biggest challenge with bit.They really find it hard to say, oh because they need to upgrade. Ohbecause it's like no a no that's, not the business issue, and I think thattraining them on that. That is a liht bold moment when they understand thebusiness issue and then they can apply everything they're thinking to that itstarts to became really easy. I also like the way you guys do the trainingyou game, a fire, and so people do go in there and they do have fun with it.It doesn't feel like it's leborious. It doesn't feel like. I have to go and doall these things. So, there's again it's that mixture of simpicity at thetop, but huge depths when you really get going with it, and I think theother one is when I go in. You know whether it's a a you know a Dobi orwhoever it is. There is credibility that it just makes Dan good sense. Ionce to explain it as o you. Why wouldn't you think, like that? Whywouldn't you approach it like that? And it's not Mike some of the moresimtistic ones that you can get into they just ave very operational. Theydon't have the debth they'r very surfice level, Ond, the other ones thatyou can get into they're, so deep and naborious in terms of what you lead tocomplete hat, you start to lose the reasons to why you're doing it, and Ithink it sits really well between easy to comprehend, but with the death thatgoes with it and the other piece that I really like is you make it veryrelevant when you're doing the training leveraging use cases, you know examplesthat really resonate and challenges that made me say well. Why would youthink a bit like this? Why can't you just slightly twist it into thethinking of it like this and then again it's another release moment when theygo, I get it. I get it. So those are some of the reasons why I keep comingback to it and the way. Also, if fits you know if you went and so to someoneoutside of selves, how I wanted to look at this methodology that you know my go:An e throw up, I'm not doing that, but when you say here's this siplicity,they go. Okay, I get that now they may be looking at it still to surface level,but it's good enough, because the terminology makes sense and is easy toreplicate. So that's a big part of it perfect, and so let's talk about thiswar for a second for our audience, help us understand, what' e Word Does andwho you guys are targeting and selling to out there, but its really it's it's just beensuper exciting. It took an awful lot to take me from the clutches of a Dobe.You know o absolutely loves, but I think that the Sora, what's what sortof Doe Zora, provides a fast solution for subscription management billing andalso for reveue fo sescriptor management, O beding and reve TeAltomation Anthingwat? What's that about? And it's like this is the fasson why it's exciting is because it impacts a customer experience,especially for companies who are trying to think about. How do I get into arecurring revenue, business bovel right, so many companies amout wish they had arecurring revenue business bottle, especially in this climbar right,because people thatre signed up they're on a subscription they're doing that,and so it's not just the the finance aspect, but it is a tool that allowsyou to think about. Well, how do I upsell people so hane of the motionswitste experience at and the most important experience for anyone any ofthe our customers? Customers is when they have to pass with their money, Othey're, going to make a decision to spend more money, and this is whereyou've got to have the best experience, and so you need something that has realagility. A lot of our customers, O can name some of these, like the sort, zoosor the dockey signs, or you can think about spender. The Guitar Company likewhen the whole covid situation happened.

They had to change right or that areally rapidly be able to say hey. I need to now change my pricing. Maybewhat I need to do to retain everyone is allow them to have a certain period andno cost or let them have further access or I'm going to you know, allow them Odo changes reaer. You need that to happen with a real agility, so itdoesn't mean IIT goes to recode. They got to really do that with absolute easand our customers could do that and they retain their customers. Theircustomers very very well through doing that. It needs to be autemated, so donebecome this whole sort of you know. If I go into a typical Oteelerpor, ceremiccan be really manual by it's hard coded are going to get it an. I Kiep them toall change request. So you need to have a toll. That's really focused on theconcept of subscription and what I loved about it is that wearesubscription to us in a dator model is to find around a customer not around aproduct and if you think about how people have always build normally it'sbased around the product. This is based around the customer, so e last TeseTudies. You can think about the insights that can come out. I start toknow when someone might be trending towards a churn. I know when someone'strending towards an Upcell, so the Ri around it becomes really significantand it is a transformation sor people, if you're a manufacturer who's one ofour key markets, you're not used to setding Directy your coniuew directorconsumer. To how would you change that mentality? How did you change the wayyou think about the offerings because it goes from what is really somethingwhich is an ownership as an I own, a product I own, a physical object toactually use a ship, and so it's a journey to use a ship and the wholestory around usership is Differenc to ownership, and that is where people aregoing. That is where our kids are going. That's where our kids kids will begoing. They don't want to own things. They want to be able to use things whenthey want to. So you need to have a different angle, mentality on doingthat, so manufactings big for US media is very big. For us. Technology iswhere we come from by in terms of the TEC. Ca Fast companies are doing it,but what was say a ton of other use cases, Anto retail, into financialservices into the most unbelievable ball- bearings to all sorts of thingswhere people are turning them around to be something where people can just payfor using them not having to own them so again for us and it's a big piecesetting into the CFO the the SEO, but also more and more into the businessand the CRO as an example, they used they look for new markets that they canwith lagidacy get into yeah, and that focus I like that subtle shift of it'sabout the customer right and I think that's why the vacsling framework Alonso well, because that's also what we're focused on, but that subtle shift ofthinking into that subscription economy. I think, is going to be great. I thinkyou're positioned, amazingly well. I am a stockowner by the way, but I'm justsaying so her to make sure you guys are as successful as possible, and so Iwant to be respectful of time. You remember this from last time we askeall of our guest two standard questions at the end of each interview. First issimply as a cro that makes you a prospect for a lot of individuals outthere always curious to know if somebody doesn't have a trustedreferral into you. What works for you to capture your attention and earn theright to time on your calendar to talk to you about potential ways. They maybe able to help you. It has to be to me it has to be amessage that comes from the fact that they've actually done some research andit's just not a canned thing that comes out. It has to peal to me and then a UShave some kind of resonance of the goals of the situation that I mane andthe Mornthat they've done some research...

...wher. They can titer some things, themore intrigued I'n going to be as to what it is that they have and when itcomes out in that way, that's interesting, but if it's purely canbang in the trash right, so it's really really easy so and I think the otherone is a little bit of persistence, not annoying, but a ill bit of persistence,which is again, I understand who you are, and I've asked you about this. WhyWen you responso me, that's a that's! That's good! I don't mind a bit ofsqueakiness in there. You know. I don't find that. I find that good and Ioncommendable, but obviously not too much so a bit of reasonable persistence,love it and so last question. We call it our acceleration insight. There wasone thing you could tell sales or professional service people. One pieceadvice: You could give them that you believe would help them hit theirtargets. What would it be and why? Well apart from the obvious Wad, whichis your Bak, a loss of body, I think that the the biggest spiece is. I thinkit's e the give them the ability to see consistency with the ability forcreativity. I Like I, so you have to get to a place where they understandthere's an operational aspect O it there's a define process, but thequicke you adopt it, but quickr it becomes what I call that unconsciouscompetence, but you just don't even Dodn't take time anymore because thit's,how you're thinking and you got to be really dogmatic about that. On theother hand, really I want to encourage people to Tay rests by Goi out of thebox right. So if you're used to process all those complaints go away likehiging data hygiene, how many times do we all say lik? If you don't have good data hygene,I don't think you're credible. I'm GOINGNA have to investigate your data G.I don't want to spend my time doing that right. You DoN'tt me to spend yourtime doing that so good it right. Once you get it right, we can move on to thegood beds right. So for every ask make sure look. You know where it's going toemd pact, T E. SO, on concert come back to my sales caleries, but I'm askingyou to do this because it's going to give you time back, it's going to giveyou some personal productivity gain and it's important. So when I put somethingout there, I will always show them. This is why it's needed, but this iswhat you're going to get in return. It's not just for my satisfaction of myreporting. I love it Robbie. I can't thank you enough for taking time to beon the show today. If people are interested in learning more about warswebsite the best place to go or someplace else, you want us to sendthem. Well, absolutely our website or if theywant to get in touch with me, you know vraciist user of Linkes in and alwayshappy to thenanswer people's questions, and so awesome. Thank you again fortaking the time really appreciate you carving some out for us not chat. I, asalways a real delight. Thank you all right, everybody that does it for thisepisode, Checkis out a B Tob revezaccom share with friends, family coworkers.Let your kids listen to it. Instead of watching screens and until next time,we avvauselling associates withou nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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