The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode 0 · 8 months ago

Data Nerds and Martech: What You Really Need to Know


Your quest is to navigate the ever-changing martech landscape, find meaningful data, and turn it into actionable, profitable strategy. Easy!

Oh, there’s one tiny catch: Your marketers and sellers will need to become data scientists too — in all of that imaginary free time they have. There has to be a better way, right?

Luckily our guest, Brian Walker, President at Statwax, is an expert at helping brands identify the metrics they need and create a single, powerful thread that gets everyone on the same page. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Improving impact while squeezing marketing dollars 
  • The volatile Venn diagram of sales and marketing
  • Building a content strategy that sales can truly utilize
  • You don’t have to be a data scientist to manipulate it successfully

Now that you know the secrets to refereeing the battle between sales and marketing, are you ready to learn more about post- pandemic selling or the B2B buyers’ journey? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience. 

You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone of the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about the integration of marketing and sales, increasing revenue without increasing spend, which is something I know all of our audience is going to want to know more about how to be smarter with the marketing strategy than how to it successfully enhance your marketing team. To help us, we have with US Brian Walker, president of Stat Wax and performance marketing agency. Brian, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you, Chad, happy to be here. Excellent. So we always start with a kind of off the wall question just so the audience gets know you a little bit better, and I'm always curious to know, especially since we've all had additional time during the pandemic to develop hobbies, something that you might be passionate about that. Those that really only know you from a work perspective might be surprised to learn. Oh Gosh, I would say yeah, pandemic has been great for for hobbies, and mine is Super Cliche. I love cooking, but the thing that everyone thinks is super weird. I even love like the dishes aspect. It is super calming to me. So my wife actually gets away with home looked meals and not even having to do dishes or anything. It's just like my thing, like the kitchens just where I live. So that has kept me, that has kept me busy. I ever, find many things I have not attempted, sour dough. So I'm not ultimate Cliche, but we're getting close. We're getting close. Is there a favorite dish you have to do or to prepare that you really just love? That's the weirdest thing. There's really not. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I repeat a whole lot, I just if I see it online, I'm like, that seems good, let's give that one a try. It's just all over the place. So again, I am blessed with a family who is very adventurous when it comes to dinner. If it's being cooked for them. So the the world is my oyster. Basically, that's awesome. Acts will thank you very much for sharing that with us. And so let's kind of jump in today, and I want to start with as we were preparing for this I was going through materials. There's a perspective that, as a former marketer and then now as a sales professional, I kind of hit me and made me go what, how? How's this going to work? And I think others may have interest in understanding it as well. What is it that we can do to increase marketing effectiveness with out our revenue associated with marketing, without increasing spend? I would love to get your perspective on next. I think that's something that everybody's going to be very interested in hearing. For sure, in all the surface I guess the answer is probably going to seem a little bit vague, but I know we'll dive into a little bit more. The way we've really found to dive in and say, how can I squeeze more out of my dollars or even reduce them while still improving my impact, is it lies in the story that a lot of this data that's available can tell us that folks just aren't realizing can be tapped into, and not even just like existing data. What are my past customers doing, or what have they done, or what are they they reading and looking at from me, but this treasure trove of data and information and targeting opportunities that all of these platforms give us. Even in this age of privacy everything and no more tracking, there's still such a story. If you're capturing the right information, you can still engage sales in the right way without asking them to become data scientists, because you know you still so do not want to do that exactly. And and all of a sudden it's just opens up this visibility, this this thing that's been a black box for so many marketers and for so many companies to say, Oh, I truly know which dollars and sense produced for me and I can feel comfortable truly seeing an understanding. If I cut this out, it's...

...ultimately not going to affect my bottom mine, or if I invest more in this, I'm going to get exponentially more out of it, whereas right now a lot are still looking at it as what is what does that last touch point? What is the most impactful final thing? And so they're missing the story of everything that occurred up streamed. It had an impact when and it so it sounds like you're talking about attribution. Right attribution through the entire process, from first come on time, when they first thought about the problems that maybe you could solve, or the first time it came across something like that piece of content. The attribution to show how it's effectively driving into revenue. And that's where the the data comes in. I'm assuming exactly exactly it's it's solving that that question. It's been around, you know, in the minds of CMOS for for five decades now. At Half my marketing works and half doesn't. Who is here to tell me which is which? There are ways now to take it even less than half and half and say which individual touch point, what piece of content did we write? Did this Webin are really ultimately impact things and how much? You know what it was our return for each of these items that were putting out there into the market place. And so let's talk about that tech for a little bit. Right that I have a there's a personal some of catches in my throat at the mention of the Martech five thousand, because there's a ninezero companies, and even in like the five minutes we've been talking, I'm sure a new one has been founded. And so there's this massive technology landscape for companies to have to sort through and choose from and figure out how to access the data turn it into actionable insight. And I'm curious, if you were working with a client, how you might help them make sense of that landscape. How would, how should they parse it in terms of really identifying which types of technology are going to give them the insights necessary to achieve that increase in revenue without that increase in spend. Sure, and when it comes to Martek and, and I'm in the same boat as you, right at the Mark Tech Five thousand just became tenzero since we since we started this, and I'm pretty sure half of them are now like Sash Unicorns in last five minutes. It's crazy. It's crazy the space. But the biggest thing that we have found on the MARTEX side is there is no you know, there is no true do it all for you solution. It's all predicated on what are you feeding into it. Much like a crm system, the most expensive sales for simplementation is only going to be as functional as the information you're feeding into it. Garbage in, garbage out, and the MARTEC side is is really the same, and that's why we always kind of come back to that data aspect of if you are not clear on what milestones you're tracking and recording, what you're able to see in terms of who your buyers are, what you've conveyed about them or what you've gleaned about them as personas in some of the the digital journey and touch points that they need. If you don't have that, the best or most expensive Martek on the planet is not going to spit out the right thing for you. In by way of example, you know we encountered someone one time who who got a really great, well regarded piece of MARTEC was going to really help their ABM strategy and automate a lot of that on behalf of their sales team, and they set it up with how they had milestones and kind of post lead actions and, you know, customers and all tracked, but they weren't doing that well. So they didn't record their milestones accurately, they didn't update them all the time, they didn't have enough of them to really gage is this prospect qualified or not, and why and what are they doing? They ultimately win three months with their martek trying to optimize toward the lowest quality prospects because when they'd be disqualified in their system they weren't marked as anything different. It wasn't reading the right information. And so the machines are only going to take as much actions as we give them instruction on, and so if I'm...

...fetting out a MARTEC or giving advice on that, it's that you know, there is a lot of room in a company's marketing stack for those things. But before you start exploring, showing out dollars and implementing them, take a step back and really look internally. Are we using are monitoring of what prospects do after they come in our door properly? Are we recording and having visibility onto the right things to feed to an automation platform so that we know when it takes the keys over, we've given it all the context for it to actually go continue finding the right people or not. And it's interesting situation. Right. So you've got the marketing teams and, like you ship, for five decades they've been trying to figure out exactly where my money's going, and now we have all this technology that will give us the insight, if implemented properly, and that creates this different struggle for marketers to almost have to be some level of data scientists understand what data needs to go in. Where then the new struggle of how do you translate that into something that a CEO or a CFO who doesn't really do that day in, day out? Oh yeah, it's going to understand and that they can that they can be actionable with. That also then creates another rift ORC I think contributes to but correct me if I'm wrong. That's whole concept of integrating marketing and sales. I've been here in for twenty plus years. Marketing sales and get along. Yeah, they're in the same family, but we can't get them marketing does understand what sales does and sales doesn't, you know, understand how leverage of marketing stuff. And so now we've got the data on top of it which should actually make the marketers more effective at providing sales what they need in order to drive that revenue funnel. How do you work with clients or or think you're? Why are people still struggling with this and how do we overcome and how do we get those marketing and sales teams to work hand in hand? Yeah, see, it's the ultimate battle royale. That's right. It's like the market. It's like, I think, like the big anchorman brawl. It's just marketing sales with pitchforks and stuff going at each other all the time, and it is still fundamentally it. You know, from a top level down, it would feel like they're sort of like at odds in terms of goal right. Sale wants the most qualified prospects. Are weads coming in the door, so that they're not wasting their time on leads that they aren't going to lead anywhere ultimately and getting tied up in all of that. They want to know what are these folks pain points? How can I talk to invest and in marketing is over here like well, you just told us send you ead volume because you're sitting around not getting calls all day long, and stuff like. What what do you want us to do? Right? And everybody actually pick up the phone, exactly, and then everyone's just like talk to each other. And you know, from the marketing standpoint, the one thing I always try and and impart on our teams who were doing marketing on behalf of our clients is you know, we're kicking off with a client. The most important discovering conversations we can have are with the sales team. The first thing we want to know is give us your best sales rep who closes the most deals? WHO's fielding the most prospects, the highest dollary enterprise clients? Tell me what are the three things that are pain points most often? Why? I don't want to know necessarily why people buy from you right now. We'll get there. I want to know why they do not buy from you. And as marketers, we're going to create landing pages. Did speak to those exact reasons. We're going to create ads. They have testimonials that speak to how we solve that problem. Any of those perceived hiccups we want to address right off the bat. And Marketing Teams, never I guess, want to sometimes put their egos aside and say it doesn't matter what I know from a marking standpoint. I need to know what you guys are hearing, because you're ultimately the gatekeepers to this person becoming revenue for this company. I need to know not what we're doing so great, but what do people think we don't offer. And what you don't see from a lot of companies and marketing is them...

...addressing pain points proactively. That way it's all about, you know, here are the biggest value props and sales points and everything. They're never outright saying like Oh, you think we don't do this, check this out, or really sitting down with sales and saying, after all the great stuff we put out there, what are we still not addressing yet, and giving sales teams, I think, the opportunity to understood that they're heard and understand that their conversations do apply to the marketing side is very beneficial. But then also spinning it as again, if we go back to the data and attribution, sitting down with sales and saying, what would you be able to do if, when the lead came in, you could immediately see, because it was tracked, which case study that person had already spent the most time on or which testimonial resonated most? Would it help you personalize that conversation, like what if you could qualify their pain points based on the the issue that they just searched on Google before coming in? And those are things that I think sales sometimes doesn't understand can be captured and sent their way to better arm them. Each side just always thinks that they're trying to work with data and conversations that the other side doesn't care about. And when you bring them together and really start to kind of sit down the table and have have those things, you realize how what marketing and sales are doing actually has so much impact on the other side and that venn diagram between the two has a ton of over APP oh, absolutely, and what's interesting to me is we actually, I mean you have platforms today that will tell you what content your sales team is actually using. Right C ms has will tell you what's being pulled, what's being accessed, how is it being used? The marketers should be using some of that information to craft the content it's being accessed the most often. Sales then also needs to be honest and say, Hey, I'm using it but it's not helping, or I'm using it because it's all I have and I didn't realize there was something else. So we also at some point have to train the sales team how to effectively use the cmss and understand where different types of content are. Everybody's producing content, so now the question is where is it, how do I get to it and how do I most effectively use it? So this comes back to thinking through like how do I develop a strategy, not only a Gd go to market strategy and what is my marketing content strategy, but also build in that strategy to integrate and train and make sure both sales and marketing are on the same page, leveraging that data effectively. And I'm curious, do you see a difference in the way higher education organization should do that than maybe a Sass company, or are the foundations just the foundations? So interestingly enough, they do really ultimately operate and need to focus a kind of the same way. And and that's a great question, because you know what we do as an agency. Are Two verticals. are like bb Sass and Higher Ed, and most folks come in and say how on Earth are you doing those two who not be more opposite? Right it be to be as Sass especially is like eight thousand miles an hour on decisions, growth, etc. And eedu gets outpaced by glaciers. So if just you fundamentally business wise wildly different, but the story is kind of the same. We're asking some ultimate buyer to make a very big investment, long term decision. Whether you call him a customer or a student and admissions rep or a sales rapp or a bizdev, you're capturing lead information and there's probably a lot of competitor and noise in the market place as well. Everyone's looking at multiple schools when they apply. Everyone's looking at multiple SASS products when it's time to side in an enterprise level contract for their company. That's going to last them a year longer, and so the need to bridge the gap between those teams and build enough visibility in the data so that no one has to become data scientists but they can still easily see the narrative and understand how to take action on... Is the same. It's just on the EEDU side it's all about the admissions reps being able to see what programs did they look at? Is this particular area of the financial aid page more often visited by folks who eventually become enrollments, ie? Can we glean something about the potential pain point from that content to build off of or talk to? Same with the SASS side. Is this particular solution product feature? Is this Webinar we did better. So many sales teams we talked to know that their company puts out a Webinar a month and has no idea what kind of traffic one gets versus the other. They just know there are really good doll leadership company. They don't know what, as you said, particular content resonated most. Same with e do you on you know, these particular programs, these career fairs that were at things of that nature. And so when you work with these two different types of companies and you're helping them come come up with those strategies, what are the the first three things you look at or the first couple of things that you're going to do to help make sure they're developing a strategy that's going to be the most effective given their focus, whether that's the whether it's ass or higher? At first and foremost is just really auditing and getting them to a baseline of being able to see how that content is ingested, who's looking at what and, as you mentioned, there are tools out there. You know cms has that can do a lot of that for you. Most folks you know, would be familiar enough, you know, to say, oh, I have google analytics on the website. But a lot of times misses the story and the detail that you can go into there. So, if you have analytics on your website and on these blog pages and webinar pages, do you have reports or segments made where you can go in and see which one had the most value in eventually producing this conversion? Do you have it set to track when someone ultimately requests the demo or looks to schedule a sales conversation? If the answer to that is no, we've got a really reverse engineer that. Well, first we have to figure out what value actions do we want to track and then how can we use that data to see what content, what pages, what journey, played the best role in producing those value actions? And that gets very data heavy. So part two to that is how do we tell the simple story the folks, because, as I'm sure you know, we're not going to sit down with the CEO and be like Hey, let's look at your Google analytics report, my report. It's like if they if they don't throw us out of the room, they'll at least glaze over immediately. And a lot of the sales team is like that and we should expect them to be. That's not their world. We have to take that and figure out how do we build the narrative, the visuals and the report, or the the system as it were, that best conveys the key need to knows to them? If we're seeing all of that and we get everything set up to track to a tribute to tell us this page, this content, had the best part in this journey for this audience, how do we take that and distill it down into the couple bullet points of you need to know? And that's where the reporting piece, you know, really comes in, you know, visualizing out so they don't have to log into Google analytics. You know, they can get an export of the two key takeaways and say, okay, over the past month eighty percent of our best cloth was customers first started by engaging with this Webinar. Let's maybe speak to that Webinar more or to people who request the demo. Send them that Webinar afterwards if they haven't seen it yet. Knowing it seems to play a good role in convincing them this product is right for them. And so just building that narrative and shutting down at the start the mindset that maybe folks are going to have to become data scientist, because that's when they there's a lot of pushback early on, from sales, from sea level, etceether is only the...

...exactly they're going to come in and they're going to tell me I need to live in Google analytics and live in these marketing reports and all, and they're like, I'm not going to be about that at all. We can disarm that by saying here's what we're going to give you that you need to know. Let the data nerds handle the rest. Will get that built for you so that you can see the narrative you truly need love it. I think that gives everybody really decent understanding kind of what you're doing at stat wax, but I'm curious to know a little bit more about the company and how your journey to become president. How do we get there, and to show us that story. Yeah, so my journey to this position was a lot of right place, right time. I guess I've been I've been with the agency and our sister agency for many, many years, but I was always on the execution side. So for a new listeners who haven't figured out yet I'm a data nerd, I am. I just that's that's what I live in right and building that that strategy and working with clients, both eat you and Sass over the years, who have needed that. My kind of primary role has all had always been help build that narrative, help build those systems, build the tracking, attribution etc. At the end of the day we are a full service agency, so we do the ADS execution. You want paid search, you want paid social etc. Awesome, but we learned early on the only way we can do that effectively is if we pair it with the data piece. It says here's what's working and why. If we develop something that can go to the CMO, the CEO and say you trusted us with this much of your dollars, here's why it worked and here's where you're still leaving opportunity on the table. And so as we sort of leaned into that data focus capability, that's where I moved into this position a bit more to help build out those teams and ensure we in our conscious staying at the forefront of what Martec is doing, what analytics is doing, etc. But ultimately, at stat wax, clients come to us because they're saying, I need to know what I should be spending and marketing, because I need not just leads, I need quality leads and I need my sales team to stop telling me that our last agency just gave them a whole bunch of crap that wasted their time, and I need you to tell me what's working and why, and I can't find someone to do that for us. You know, soup to nuts, and so that's really where we try and plug in with our clients. Perfect, perfect, all right. So let's Change Direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests to standard questions towards them. Okatch interview. The first is simply as a president, as a leader of a company, that makes you a target, excuse me, prospect for a lot of people out there, and I'm always curious to know when somebody's trying, when there's no trusted referral, it's like you, somebody's not saying, Hey, you need to talk to this person. How what works best for you when somebody's trying to capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar? personalization is huge for me. Obviously you know sales pitches, especially from Martek as as an ad agency, are kind of a diame a dozen and a lot of them try and get really into weeds about the data and attribution out of what we've talked about today too, and and that's neat and all, but it becomes so blored because, as you said, the MARTEC five thousand is now twice as large and and it's just it. They're all kind of doing a lot of the same things. But I've seen some really good stuff from from a personalized standpoint. Ironically, there is Martek that helps you personalize your sales outreach. It's like just this inception going on in the industry. But folks will look and see, like what am I interested in? People know like, oh, he went to South Carolina, he's a long suffering game cock sports fan, like, Oh, stat waxes in Indiana. There they're big on Chicago dogs and tender OIN Sandwhich is like those little things worked into stuff. Are are awesome and they catch my eye. And when I go to a landing page through an ad or when I go to a website and they're running Martec like clear bit that pull's my company logo...

...and my website image. The rows it on the website is like see yourself here. That's really cool to me and it's not that difficult to do. It's just a little heavier lifting to really get to know someone in a onetone outreach, but it means a world of difference versus when I go to some SASS companies website and it's just a never ending scroll page of product demo videos that are liked. Here's what we do, here's what we do. Here are five client logos and their clients. I cocacola and GE, and I'm a good gracious I'm an agency in Indianapolis, Indiana. I cannot relate to GE right now. Now. I would like to one to I would love to say where the GE of agencies, but we'll have to we have to chat in a few years how that's going. Perfect all right. Last question. We call it our acceleration insight. If there is one thing you could tell sales and marketing professionals, one piece of advice you could give them that you believe would help them hit or exceed their targets, what would it be and why? I am Gosh Dad, I'm so tempted to to to play dad here and say just talk to each other, but that's too easy. I won't do that that's a cop out. I would say from both sides of things, don't be fearful of what you're seeing talked about in the data and analytic space. That can be a big turnoff right now because it's going to make you think I need a data science degree or I need an engineer on this team to help me, to help me make heads or tails of this. That's not the case. Don't it lost in the privacy and the cookies and all that discussion going on. Just know that there is a treasure trove of stories lying in the stuff you're probably already capturing or that's available to you in just your everyday ads platform or your everyday crm that you might not be tapping into yet and if you can come together and look at that, the behaviors and trend lines you can pull out could drastically alter how you talk to folks and how you qualify and monitor what's going on. But there's such a huge resistance to diving into it because it seems like such heavy lifting to get into that data because of the fear of the unknown. Dive in and take a look with some folks and you'll be amazed at what you can see in the stories that you can tell and what you can make understandable for the lay person at your company to take action on. Love it right. I can't think enough from me here to day. If a listeners interested in talking more about these topics, we're getting in contact with you. Where would you like us to send them? Stat waxcom is great. It's we've deliberately kept it simple to find us there stat waxcom. I am a Brian at Stat Waxcom, so you could always email me directly. But but yeah, you'll find what you need on our website and I would I would love to have that chat if something today has caught your interest. Awesome. I can't thank you enough for taking time. It's been great having it on the show. Likewise Chat. I really appreciate it. Appreciate the questions and hopefully we helped some long suffering sales or marketing team out there maybe be friends a little bit better today. I hope so too. All right, everybody that does of for this episode, you know the drill. Be Tob web, REV xccom share the episode of Friends, family, Co workers. If you like what you hear, do his favorite. Leave US review on itunes until next time we have value selling associates, which we all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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