The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 2 months ago

Remora Style Marketing & Sales w/ Chris & Matt


Brand is what people say when you walk out of a room. So how do you control the conversation when you’re not there to hear it? 

Today’s guests, Chris Smith, Chief Revenue Officer (CRO), and Matt Richards, Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at Aqua Security, talked about the strategic ecosystem of sales and marketing and how they have to work together to win. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why working together for a shared goal is important
  • What should and shouldn’t be measured for ROI
  • Why empathy over ego is the key to success

Now that you know how to conduct killer marketing tests, are you ready to learn how to hone your business’s competitive edge or use data to prevent revenue leaks in your business? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Carlos now Jay, and I'm joined by my cohost, Lisa Snare. Say a Lisa, Hi bogs, thanks are being here today. We're talking about sales and marketing working together. Everybody talks about how critical it is for sales and marketing to work together, but, let's face it, a lot of organizations don't do it very well, and today we're going to explore a little bit as to why. And to help us out with this subject, we have Chris Smith and Matt Richards, the CRO and Cmo of Akua security, and they will be sharing their thoughts on making sales and marketing work together in a fast paced, fast growing company. Chris, Matt, thank you so much for taking the time today and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having US okay, before we jump into the topic of the day, there's one question we like to do to get us all started. It provides a little value from our audience help support to understand you a little bit better. So here we go and I'll start with Matt Hey. What's one thing that you are passionate shit and about that those who only know you to business might be surprised to know about you. Yeah, I think for me I'm a tinker, something most folks to look at my background. I'm a mechanical engineer by training, so I like to build stuff, I like to fix things. So the project all around the house, but I mostly love to be on the water. So during covid you know, I found a boat in need of some love and I restored a boat from scratch. You had a new mask formulated and actually still that repaired the sales, restored the woodwork. Just had a had a great adult time mixing my tinkering with my need to be on the water. and to me, I think that's something that I find, that place where you're at peace that combines those things you love in the world and put them all in one place. If I'm not at work, I'm going to be on the water and sailing in that boat that we were stored during covid. It was great, awesome att you never cease to amaze me, Mr Christmas. How about some amazing about you or something you're passionate about? Now? Let me just respond to that and that. Some people got codd dogs. You got a covid boat. Nice. Well, like. Okay, so a lot of people know about me to know they know my interest in boxing and position the participation there, and they also know have the my routines in the mornings. I won't get into now, but those are people in business. This was somebody that is in business that wouldn't know something about me. Sob I don't talk about a lot. So this is what it is. What I was young and even through college, my dream was to write movie force and I've played pout my whole life and composed music, which is interesting. I actually don't read music, but I don't need to explose me down. I can hear just about anything, save some of the more intricate songs, and play it right back to you. So in college I opened for George Winston and I started digging immediately after college. And but then I was produced by a mentor written software industry. That throb a really nice are up to the place where I was also a valet, and the rest of historyes of you. I am man. I see we might have to pull this question. I feel like such an under achieper. That's amazing. I'm amazing. Sorry, you'll have that. So amazing, Chris, and I'll tell you one thing. I was listening to George Winston in college, so little that I know you're opening form if I know that well. Shot fantastic, fascinating stuff. So I mean just switch gears a little bit here. We hear a lot about security companies these days. Tell us a little bit...

...about Awkwa security, what you both do there, how you arrived at this exciting, fast paced out organization and exactly how you're different from all those other security companies. They might care about. Cool. So. So what I do on this hero so to friend the officers. So you know pretty much the go to market is a teen interest to me and when there's a lot of revenue, everyone likes the way a partner my hair, my jokes are funny and I'm map and the converse is true. And we don't have a lot of it. So that's a little bit of what idea. Why did I choose this company? So I believe in a remo a style company selection. What I mean by that is if you look at Romor a fish, they live off of a big, big fish. So let's take a whale, of example. A whale is moving through the ocean and there will be a bunch of fish to live up this whole ecosystem of the whale. So I was in companies in a Ramori style, meaning what is a big movement in the market, where a lot of shifts are going to rise in that rising tie, and I'll encapsulated with this. There are a hundred thousand software startup scale ups. There are one thousand of them that are Unicorns, if you can believe that. And of those thousand that are UNICORNS, there are fifty two. We reachauld article came out venture beat that's didn't matter. And all those, they said there are ten to watch, and all those ten there's US and five people that we can pet it. So for me it's about show me big movement, show me something that hasn't yet been solved with this big movement. The big movement is the digital transformation, which is a seven trillion dollar transformation happening and what we do is bring security to that. So that's a little bit of the way I look at how I'm going to choose will company I hang the hat, and that's not a bad way to do it. Did you want to add something to that? Well, I think on the marketing side, I think about position the company right so that the products a position the company value and and the need so that the products essentially sell themselves. That doesn't mean they do, but that's that's my goal in life, and so everything we do is to try to drive exactly that and not so unlike Chris, when I started looking for my next thing, my last thing was taking a company public. It was great fun. I decided I want to go do that again. Commercializing Tech is something I love. So I went looking for cutting inst technology and a massively high growth space with a team that I thought got it and was working well together. And it was time to do the scale up technology and be improven. But we needed to scale and so I came in here to do that. Fortunately I started a month before Chris, so it took a real leap of faith that Chris would actually be here and and started, and I've not been disappointed since. So been an excellent journey and we're just getting started. Yeah, that seems like a really exciting feature for everyone. And so when we talk about marketing and sales working together, that's our topic for today. What does that mean for both of you? That's what aren't we you's right, since you were writing fully of dolest your stop is the first of these two employees of hell. That'll teach me that. To me, when I think about the two working together, I tend to look at it it's just easy in threes. The first shared goals, and that sounds obvious. Well, we're I'll try their rabbity, but it's not. Actually, we often the case, and I'll just tell a quick story of Chris and I when we started in the fall. You know, we built this. We build these shared goals and we actually metric and agreed along with our compatriot on the chief customer officers side. We all shared exactly the singles and it wasn't like mettle hit his goal and crystal miss his and we'll be good. Is if Chris doesn't his goal, Matt doesn't hit his goal, and therefore we're doomed and it's and it's it's that shared goals. I think it's setting that at the high level of the organization and being a little bit vocal about it to the team that said we are sharing goals, we are a line, we will do this...

...together. That was, I think, an important part of sales and marketing working together. A second part is trust. I want Chris in my backyard, to be honest, and I'm in Chris's backyard also. We see different things, we optimize on different different elements of the go to Markt strategy and execution, and so we need to trust that we're in there driving that same shared set of goals. And then the last thing for me, with my like to think of it as Tetris in execution in each other's backyards, not at the same time, in the same places. I'll trying to drive the same goal and it's a little bit like tetris fitting together. Just so to clear the level. Yeah, I done riff off, not a little bit, Matt. I mean the Alignma Gold is huge. So what's the knock? Why would you even take this? This every topic, because we've all heard the leads. A week know your teams week the leaves you're giving me. Nobody really, you know, wants to buy what we have. No, your guys aren't all in off with those folks within the right time. French all, yes, they are, okay, though they this is this is super low frequency type of dialog which shouldn't happen between marketing until the time as a lot of reasons for it. Could be that the leadership doesn't understand the important it could be ego, even as a damnable thing for all people, but there really alignment goals is the biggest peas. So not. And I actually spent a lot of time before you enjoin and that was one of the reasons. As they join the company, and what I was looking for from that was hey, walking through philosophically, how you you sales, and you know, he was like, well, sales with my customer and it's not that sales have to be happy, it's just that those are the people that I am the script writer form and then they're the people on stage who are going to deliver. Okay, got that cool. Another thing that he said that I said many times the air warfare and groundwork and he said, look, I would a at marketing as an air warfare if you're going to win a war, and I can nic control for that, and in your teams, the ground world, and they play different roles. The air warfare wants to drop packages that say it's futile for you to fight the folks from the ground and the ground wants to do a really good job aligning the troops in the Italians in certain way where they're going to demoralize the anemy. That's out a little. The vicious people maybe will not quite the moralize the enemy because, just competition pointed those two things have to work in concert with each other. Back to the math, test, Tetra store and a lot of time I'm risk a get off of it, the swimling. So a lot of times in the organizations sales will say, look, I'm not here to help the pitch. You do that in the market. I'm not here, even if it's investor death. But you do that in a marketing. I'm not here to talk about brand. You do that your marketing and that's that's something that's significantly as to why is that significalness? It's missed. Because who is the greatest connective tissue to the market? These are the customers. It shouldn't need to sale people talking to them on a regular base to now if they stay in the swimling and they're not this interwoven conduit to marketing because they have trust. So I say get rid of the swim wings based on the truck between two confident people running both of those organizations, and then you've got a really coach's working organization between I love that as as someone who ran stre wasn't stir then ran str teams for a lot of my career. I always felt like I was being pulled in both directions and you'd have your SDR team who's out there trying to Drim up and could outbound lyad's, but also needing to make sure that those marketing leads are converting at a rate that made sense and and it was just like this tug of war. So I love hearing that you've made it this synbiotic relationship and a shared goal that everybody shares a piece of in moving this they come peny forward towards the success that it needs... see. So definitely been caught in the middle of that before. So when you're thinking about how to measure all of this, like what are some of the things that other organizations like your should be measuring, should be tracking, and what kinds of outcomes should they be expecting based on a symbiotic relationship with shared goals the way that you're seeing? Sure, so let's get the easy stuff that everyone knows up the table. Conversion rates needs to be better, we need more pipeline weed, more empty well, no, no, really don't care about that. A care about the fql like yes, through all that, of course, table steep, but I think abs is something that most companies are moving to or have moved to. And so first you really again. It does get back to the alignment between marketing and sales. Who is your buyer? Who is your user? What are the buying verticals today? What are the ones that you think will be here in the next two years? We take a look at that, draw circle around that. He said, okay, that's our target market buyer, and using cool well, how many custers do we have in each of these vertical and then looking at a heat map across as road and say, okay, we know if they are. Who Do we go after? And then they're very different messages for the buyer and we use it by moving power, somebody who has power, and then, of course, the user is not necessarily something that power with the influence, and this time is directly in the customers. Except too, by the way, because the user may be happy, but if the buyer the power isn't happy, you might not get here any so what's the point? How do you measure that? Well, it's actually a pretty difficult thing to do. It's not difficult to say these really counts you're going after. Now you have to have a close line between sales and market again to say, okay, what is the impact in this verticle? Because actually, and that all they will talk about this, but we get very different conversions and very different industries and depends on where they are at in the maturity troop. And, by the way, the messaging can't be the same. You know, it's better to go to less people with more impact from messaging. One of the reasons why Carlos and I were working together so closely that it is to spray and pray with the message that needs you think, you know, one side to talk was stuff. So I would say the easy answers to measure the impact of your abs go to market. He is also the hardest being to measured, but it's the most important that. There's a couple pieces in here that I would build on. I think at the top of the funnel, before getting into a bee a specifically, if you know your personas you know, you're positioning and we do spend a lot of time getting that right. It is the health of the market I like to keep an eye on. Is the market for what we do healthy? It's not something you often hear folks talk about. One way to measure that is intense. Are we seeing buyer in tent in our space? Is it healthy one? Then you know, riffing on that. Is The market growing? Are we growing faster than the market is growing? Like those, to me, are really critical health elements across all of go to market. Then I come down a level and of course yes, it's about awareness and impact of the brand and flow of the punnel and I think about product marketing and conversion rights. Right we have the right content for the right personas converge, they converting appropriately at the right percentage and positioning messaging all the way through and all that wrapped up in this this bundle called brand. Brand is what people say when you're not in the room. Okay, so what's our brand? And I think that's a that's a huge conversation. That's very hard to measure. But why do we exist? Super critical question every company, and of course I'm going to riff a little on the Simon cynic why? What? How conversation. But I believe so strongly in a an understanding of our mission and why we...

...exist and if we can articulately why we exist, that's really the backbone of everything we do. It's how, it's the backbone of our brand. So for me, building on that backbone of our brand of why we exist. That was that was really that background first nine months, like catalog and capturing and articulating why we exist. It's hard to measure. You either have it or you don't. But see if you can capture the spirit of why we exist. Then it can do some pretty awesome marketing around that. When we start to understand why, what's our mission, and then we start running campaigns, start identifying taglines and go from there. So there's kind of this yes, you got to get the ground warfare of the air cover in place. Well, you're working on the Strategic Defense Shield, if you will, of brand and and carrying that through. So it's almost a yes or no, you have it or you don't, and a clear understanding of why we exist. Fire persent. We talked about scoring pipelines, technology stack. Is it functional? There's all sorts of we can go into into the weeds here, but those are the big ones. To understand the state of the company and whether or not you're seeing the revenue growth associated with who you are in the state of the market and what part of that you're able to take. Probably not what you're expected from a marketer. So just add, and I usually don't do this, but since I worked with both of you, so for audience you know, we rolled out this value selling for a program at Aqua. That's not what we're here about, but I'm bringing it up because of this. When we roll out programs like this and part of your organization goes yeah, yeah, that's how we go to market for sales and do not get involved, it's a huge, Big red light for me and in your organization. Matt, I want to give you Kudos. Not only were you involved in preparing in our customization going into the program, you also set in the program you sat in with a coaching class. I mean you were involved every step along with the way and you can go hey, I'm a CML, I'm busy. The reality is you saw the program is being part of the way a. You were going to help drive some of your own messaging and connect your team to it. I just want to give both you guys Qutos for because you guys are in locks up throughout that whole process and I think that was a great to do behind it. Chris, yeah, it calls. I want to add something to that because I you talked about a measurement and I didn't just enable gone down io so you can actually get a mirror on how your messaging is, least to you. Certainly. I've seen where sales ropes bring in wrong and only sales can listen to it. We're now a little looking a huge amount of downe. No, I would you do that because you probably know that objectsly nearer to larger than they actually are. You don't want anyone else to know when you already know we haven't done here. So I case some point. You know I've got our founders listening to it, that posting development listening to it, the guests listening to it. Matt, listen to it. Dad a lot of positive feedback from math and it makes that where he's like a man. I want to write some things differently for, you know, the business development side of things. I think that, you know, we're doing some good things. I think we can be better and again like ripping out the swim ways. But last thing I'll last thing I'll beat on this force is it does come down to trust. You have to be in mutual, healthy respect and trust between two leaders of the organization. That can be broker by the CEO, but you know, often it isn't happens. To be here a whole fortune. It often didn't. It's really not a Conprom the leadership. cree point, good man. Yeah, just just layering on top of what Chris was saying. And Trust. Absolutely no EGOS. And you can have an ego, we all have egos, but you need to leave it at the door, because if you're going to trust me in your back yard, Chris, with SDRs or vice versa, with conversion rates as it comes to as it comes to some of our conversion in the pipe, like you got it, you've got to trust. Check the EGO at the door. And last but it's not obvious... have a sense of humor. Makes it a lot easier to manage this and to actually work together if you have a sense of humor, and got some. Definitely have senses of humor going here, although not obvious in this particular conversation. Well, Hey, so, since we're all just trying to learn, any tips what not to do, like things that you've seen in the past, then really don't allow sales and marking to align and work better together, specially in a Sassmall. Yeah, for me, number one, you need to have a sense of empathy, regardless of where you are in the go to market cycle, and by that I mean truly understanding that persona is truly understanding the customer, with the customers going through the prospect of the process is going through. So the opposite of that is what not to do. Number One. Number two, so in the sale cycle, empathy to finish that thought right, being able to connect with, empathize with seats, to learn and understand in the marketing all the way through through the Sdrs Lisa, to your history right this that that conversation, to carry that through to the sales and then even beyond into success. So that empathy, I think, is super critical. I think the other thing is, as Chris has said and we just said a moment ago, right, don't bring your ego along with you. It's not about whether you win, it's about whether the customer wins and whether or not, as a result, the company can win. It's that combination that's that's that's unique, and I think the value that you can then articulate and capture is extremely important if you're not bringing your ego, that you can actually look rationally and logically at the at at what it is you're you're bringing to the organization, like what's in Chris's role, in my role, what is it we're bringing that actually makes our teams more than the some of the parts and there's there's there's your special sauce and value. That can't be your ego. That's not it. So what do you bring? Creativity, energy, my partner in crime here Chris. Creativity, energy, enthusiasm on so many elements, knowledge, constantly pushing the envelope. These are great characteristics of a partner to work with and something that I highly value and look for in the other side of the sales of marketing. Time Yeah, well, the thing that I would say. I know the going back to swim on things, but really, if you will get what comes from the feel so pissures as well. We're physically in one of the accounts today, right. You would very quickly be able to see when people were moving forward, when their eyes are getting right, when the arms were crossing. Conversely, you can search to see what work. What things did you say that elicited a positive response? For what things did you say? I mean what things with the competition, saying that we're working in that marketing him that they were back in that day and hopefully again they work in all of those needs. The great leaders and marketing got out and sale a lot. Well, why do they do that? You can't read enough books and marketing to see what is going to work in that particular company at that particular time to win that particular vertical, to put landlines down to the competition to know exactly what Alblem you're saw them? Why? What's the deep understanding of that? So it's the point. What is who should understand that? At all these dozen pots fails. The problem with sales is that there are all these great chieces of information that the sails. Leadership's not great or they are great, but they're not taking dishit mean they're not involved in the day to day. They're able to sew up all those different see institutionalize it and see it. Back to marketing. So why do we care about that? Why do we care about that? We care about that because that becomes your website, that becomes what you say, that becomes your tag one. Now you say no, that's marketing job, and that, right there is the problem. Whose job is it? Yes, Martin, yes sales, but it's the connected...

...tissue of the two and allowing those two organizations to have and floe do each other's backyard, eliminating the swift of plastics that we've all seeing. But again, you know, last time, back to the truck. No truck. Everyone puts up on the agreed. In fact, it's sometimes you work with clients and we'll go hey, yeah, but marketing has to do this or marketing needs to do that. Our sales as marketings going hey, yeah, but sales has got that information. And the reality is, if you think it as a fly will, they both got to be working. Marketing might set that original messaging, but they need feedback and there's en x more people usually in sales on there ore marketing. So, Hey, where's the feedback and are you willing to share it? Not because it was bad or good. This is just the result. This is what happened. This is what I'm hearing more of here. Competitions pivoted and they're doing more of this these days. You know, you got to have everyone kind of pulling in the same direction. Now, I know this conversations about sales and marketing, but there's a third leg of this tool that is critical. where the you know, you call it services, customer success, I believe, and I could be wrong. So I want you, guys, a correct me in a successful sales as model. We need becausetmer success to be part of this conversation. It also be aligned to deliver on that original promise so that we can get a happy customer that's willing to renew. Ruling to span and will you go on a supple? I love your thoughts. Who wants to go first? I'll jump that one because it is in a near and dear to my heart. Try I'd run it before. I have a deep understanding, as my mother would say, you are do have head knowledge. If you read a book, your heart knowledge, if you if you wrote it or if you ran the part of the organization. So I have heart knowledge when it comes to customer supports. Here's the deal. A lot of the people that are running customer success came up in a break fixed model in perpetual license law. Why does that matter? Matters because you do your hundred king deal, you get tack on that twenty percent whatever was in the company and you get that K action. So what every company amortized over a three or five year period. You have to really do some agree stuff to not get that renewal. So what you didn't really have to be connected to the value you were delivering on an annual basis to the customer. Yeah, why are we talking about that? Talk the way it is today? Because a lot of the people that run customer success came up in that model. Still thinking that model. We thinking the great, great fixed model. They thinking the Hey, let's go back to try to get that renewal ninety days before. And a company that is smart recognizes, in fact, that customer success is often more important than sales. What the first they are and say know site, you don't. Don't even want to purvide, but first let's look at most companies. Are Are our models? Inscription mouth. Look at the book the business that's new and up sell and will do a good book of business that's renewal. It's bigger the renewal book of business. So just by nature of the follow the money, it's a bigger deal. But that's not why I say I say it for one reason. They are the closest to the sum. It's not just a conversation about trying to get your product in your solution. It's a okay. So are we delivering? Do we give value to you in the first ninety days? And a lot of these contracts use subscription month to hear. See. Got Ninety days to establish value, business and technical value. Who Does that? Sales? Well, they're kind of involved, but they're supporting actors. They're not the lead actor. Lead actors customers success. So what? So if a company is really smart, like what what map did, is he pult have got together a program where we went back... our existing customers to say this is who we think we are, this is why we think. You bought. What do you think? This is what we think. The markets go on with wife the goal are the customers. That's the some and and you know we have all five hundred customers now. So is it more important to go on to do some marketing research? It would pay a hundred and eighty thousand dollars to that goes to like maybe they're going to buy customers, or is it better to go to fine hundred customers that are already using our technology and safe? Hey, what do you think? I'll pile on just quickly. The feedback loop there is critical to it. It's not just about success and re earning right in the Asmali, you're earning it every year. Yes, absolutely, the reality, the value that they achieve, the expectations that were met or not met as a result of this process, has to feedback into marketing at the front end. And there's another piece of this to which I haven't really talked about, which is the customer marketing outlet, which is okay, what are you doing to tell your customers that you have new products, new features, that your capabilities have expanded over time as well? And it's another element where being aligned with success is exactly that. That's a channel and we're a channel and we're both touching the customer after the sale. That's we have to be alive. We have to have the same message and be reinforcing the value. You know, value selling only works when you can reinforce and prove that you delivered that value, which, incidentally, is also the best way to capture the new customers, to have them talk to existing customers have already achieved that value. It's hard. It's hard to not believe somebody who's in your industry, is like you, facing the same problems you are and has solved that issue. That's what I do, is the CML. I look for those answers and that's what the smarter, wiser customers will go want. The prospects will want that from existing customers, and so that's what we can help on the on the on the marketing site. So it's all one continuous it's like here sounds. You guys get the beginnings of an amazing fly wheel. All right, I got one more question. Back to sales and marketing and disorganizationalise. Hey, folks, I I gotten. I get the Probach to work with you guys and I see me. You know past the face, you know live what you actually say. But here's my question. How are you able to take that alignment that you both share at your level down to the next layer, in the next layer behind there? Any advice there? Yeah, I can take a first stab. For me it comes to shared goals and being vocal about it. Right, it's it's not. That's a marketing. You know, we want to deliver this many mqls and then we're successful. Like an mql that never makes it past the MQL stage is not an MGL. I'm sorry. So shared goals through the entire process, visible at the executive level, trickled down right. I mean, that's that sounds dumb. It sounds so obvious. Of course we're doing that revenue marketing right. Practicing the marketing succeeds when sales succeeds. Like I might have delivered plenty of mqls by my model. Who cares what the model said? Right, if that's not actually runing into reality? The models a great way to get budget, said at the beginning of the year, but it's not reality. Chris is team is reality. They're on the ground. They're in the field, like right where the air cover for what they're are trying to achieve. So to me I'll just stick with the shared goals, trickled down, measure and trust the numbers. Right, trust the numbers. I've worked a lot of sales folks over the years. The last few calls are often what you hear about and then you start silting in that direction and it turns out and then you like, you know, the leading tower pizza and on the turntable. Right, it's constantly shifting its direction and we got to trust the numbers because my job, of course, is at scale. Right, one to many. I gotta trust the numbers and trust the metrics because I need to think about the one too many. The cool thing about sales in our models is actually a fair amount of one to one and when we close. So you can, you can tailor and customize, all right. So measure, show alignment, trickle it down, trust the numbers and add one pourt thing, which is why people that understand the why behind the metrics, why into it, we get much...

...better. They willing to participate, they know why they're doing what they do. I think a lot of organizations work. It's part of your base showers. They don't tell him. Why can we tell you? Do you like your stock? Do you like the valuation? To. Sometimes what we're able to show people in sales force is nothing that gives the valuation to the company. Like one of the biggest actors. Hey, by the way, well left you fill out. Stop complaining about the fact you need more lead and you don't care what I'm through. All you care about us to stop complaining about the sales like it, because you're not giving us any of the feedback. Better the feedback you give us, the better we can find team and and you start to bring them into those conversations, and I think it's it's key to bring people one to know why they're doing what they're doing, for that the more passionate and ID later in. Our last piece, which is always leave room for creativity. That's the one thing I've just said and we haven't really had a chance of talking. We talk about numbers and market size and growth and absolutely true. Always leave room for creativity. Some of the best, most effective campaigns or highly creative out of the box, leveraging assets people had in their hand. So I challenge everybody a year from the marketing and sales perspective, working together as with assets are unique to you that you can together leverage and create a special sauce there to drive that demand, drive that awareness and and ultimately drive your pipeline and and your deals. Perfect example, the NASDACT as a great series of campaigns and on have you seen them? Right, they take a picture of their time square billboard. Congratulate Blank on black. Fantastic use of assets. When that showed up in my inbox, congratulate Matt Cemo Aqua like. I'll remember that for ages. That is an asset that they have. That took them a few minutes. They had to find me, figure out my name. Pay attention to the market, understand where we are as a company and share that with me now. I won't talk to them again further year and a half, but or two or three pleased are readything into that. I will remember that, and that's creativity, leveraging the assets you have at hand that are unique and different to you. That dovetails really nicely into one of our last questions. Actually bad. So I'll challenge you to think of something other than that. But we ask all of our guests couple standard questions towards the end of every interview, and the first is that you are both revenue executives, so you often get prospected to from other sales professionals. So the audience would really like to understand that, when they do not have a warm introduction or referral into you, what can they do that actually grabs your attention, builds a little credibility and and might have you even considering responding, and not within a year to have yeah, this is a this is an interesting one. I find this one frustrating and interesting. You also nauviating a time. The first thing I would say is Mark Twain had a great quote. I didn't have time to write you a short letters, so I'm going to write you along one like really, are you going to seriously give an executive and intro email that is by paragraphs? Never will that work, like, I was never. That's you know, that's an absolute. So of course somebody got lucky. has like that's not going to work with me. And and by the way, how do I know that? There is an a lot of substance in that? Because it takes a long time to say something you're not sure about, or takes a long time to say something you don't emphatically know. And what does it tell me? They don't know me, they don't really know why. I mean there are three fundamental things you need to answer. Why Your Company? Why Now? Why? Whatever I'm doing or whatever path I could pursue is not as good as whatever it is you're offering. And I would encourage people in the tea did just say. This is what I did. I say,...

I add, I do that. I just met it out all the cute personal stuff like no, it's not going to work. I will say something else. Invoking negative emotion isn't always bad. What do I mean? I often get the we spoken with your competitors and they're using yes, what they give my attention. Now they lose my attention when they lift my competitors and not one of them happens to be any but they get my attention. So both emotion, but definitely next it out and don't worry about all the faulty I'm sorry, you know, I really would like, but this is just no, just don't get it right to that. But that's that's stylistically how I would like to see it. So, Matt, what about you? Yeah, I think he started touching on this at the very end of the emotional like buying is an emotional decision that you then justify with facts, right. That's why brands, to me, is so important as to the why. So let's combine the Olympic part of your brain, right, the emotional decision making part of your brain, not the vio cortex that's going to actually rationalize it after the fact. Yes, you know, honey, I'm sorry I came home with that. Radio are your control, they're plane. But it made a lot of sense at the time, and here's why, because I really wanted it. You make an emotional decision and then you try to justify, but also go back to the empathy. If you do your homework and you understand, say, on the market, and you understand your persona, you know their mindset. I'll tell a different story. NASTAC did a great job, by the way. So yes, please, always, and you'll see it all our like other people's, all our facebook. They use it all the time. It's an asset they have. It's unique. Okay, that's behind us. I remember writing and working with a customer wants to close a deal and I actually I just went to their website and I wrote, Yes, I'm an engineer, but I also in the liberal arts engineer. So I wrote a story and look, it's all about trust. You know that. That's why you have and I just listed out the things on their website that they've clearly articulated are important to them. You know, when we won the deal, we displaced IBM, the incumbents, like tiny little consulting company blue like displaced the competitor. Why? Because we connected emotionally with their state of mind. If you're going to get through to me, need to do your homework to figure out what my state of mind is. I'm a scale up right, we have aggressive revenue goals, amazing technology and we are trying to scale up. Our teams. Are Organizations, and do you make the most of what we have? Okay, so think about that. Then try to connect with me with a message that makes sense. They're emotional connection with where I am, with what I need. Then rationalize it later. You don't need to rationalize it in the email. In fact, it's not going to work. I'm an engineer like numbers, but it's not going to be how yourself. For me, I'M A we all make emotional decisions. Were human. That's what's selling and buying is all about. I want to feel good, so that's what I say. Empathy and remember the limbic part of the brain. I like it all right. I think we say one last question too many times, but this is one of our questions we ask. Also, it's in the our podcast and we call an acceleration insights. Here's what it is. Basically, Hey, for our listeners, could you share one key takeaway, one key piece of advice that you feel hey, we'll help our audience hit their targets better and maybe a little bit why? So you can't explain a little better and that I'm about a star with you. So what's your one acceleration insight for audience? That there your key takeaway. Yeah, this is about sales, of marketing alignments. I'm going to go there right. The most important thing is to trust you were sales counterpart. If you're a CMO or your CMO, if you're a cro you have to share. I see eyed, I share goals. Is Nice, but if you can't see eye to eye, it's not going to work. You have to trust each other's see eye to eye, then share your goals. And you know one of my rules of some which is why Chris...

...and I get along so well. Right, no surprises. Look, if you know about something. It's not too safe for the QBR as to why you didn't hit your number. Let's fix it now so we hit our number at the Qub like. None of this hiding. Put Your cards on the table and we can win together. That's that's the trust. That's to me, is super critical. If you're building a relationship with your cro go have a drink and start that relationship please, because that will help you more than a lot of a lot of the specific tactical advice I could give you on how to be better at managing or Piper. Awesome Christ. What's your big takeaway? Yeah, I'm going by the two things. First, I would say the measurements a really big deal. It can't see some marketing typically does a really good job of measuring and sailed things they did. What are you well, marketing is a tough, tough roles, you know, the tough ll because there is a spend. It's not inconsequential and it is tough to show how you built brand. It is tough to show how you elevated company. nowther are always do that, but then they kind of feel superfluous or squishing through a lot of especially entrepreneurial, first time non business technical executives. So why does marketing do? Is such a good job in measurement? Because they need to prove that they're bringing value to the organization and that's measurements, right. So they they have really ways to measure. Tales. Is like, well, a binary you're going to hit your number and not. Well, sure, but not true. Also, you are either hitting your number and that piece is clearly buying there. But there's a there's a what's behind that and what I would think, and I'm surprisal, don't see more companies doing a good job of bringing this together, meaningfully doing it. But the controls and marketing has. Sales should understand all of the different Dash Boards and marketing has and vice first, because those two things need to be interoperable, they need to work together. So, for instance, and that happens to be a pilot, I happen to be a great passenger, but let's just say that I was also a pilot and none of our flying and he passes out, I should be as familiar with the instrument panel as man is, such that I can take over and land us free and clear. Any injury or insult of the aircraft. That is not usual. I'd say that's a really big thing. So I said I'd buy the date. That's one second piece. I would say, and I say this to everybody, this applies to anybody in any particular job. People say the craziest things trying to prove worth. I give a hundred and ten percent. That is absolutely ridiculous. There is no such thing as a hundred and ten percent and if people are truthfully, be honest and said twice there, they're probably if they're good putting out like seventy to eighty percent. Don't forget, we breathe, we sleep, we eat, we have lives and they come on a hundred ten percent stilly. What's my point? It is better to consistently put out seventy percent every day then it is to work really hard, spike and put out eighty percent, get burnt out and then then like work a four our day and then really hard. It's like show up put out every single day and and you're going to find that over time you're going to improve. This is the constant, never ending improvement that you build off when you start that process, and then you end up really outperforming most people. If you really think about. Just think about it, doing seventy percent every day for a year. What would that really do? Would change a lot of people's life. So I said ad bid for taking one who quishing. Its super beanful and one was awesome. I actually do have access to a minute most of the ASPS on Christmas team and vice versa, and we take a look at him. So it's not just what he says, it's actually how we operate, which... part of why we're aligned and we know what's going on in each other's yards. Perfect. Chris Matt thank you so much. I think you guys are doing something special at aqua securities. I think you're onto something, in fact, for our listeners if they want to learn more about awkward securities or find a better way to get in contact with you. What do you recommend? Remember my email. It's time. The safest way, you know, cell phones. You that's I don't know what kind of listening. So my email meant a sect. I think she Christos meant and I'm super simple. It's five, five film Richards. Aquasectcom super easy to find, awesome and I recommend so check out the website again. I am might be biased, but I think you guys are on to something special. I loved your CEO. He's another example of someone that showed up for our coaching session and stayed the entire time, beginning to end, and it's not easy to see out there in companies today. So I think you guys are on a some special can't stake you enough for us being here today. It's been an awesome show. It's been awesome happening here. We'll Carlo please for thank you for inviting you. Thanks for having us. You're both. You're both great host Thas to Carlos, thank you been a fun, Fun podcast. We agree, all right, everyone. That does it. For this episode. I'm lisuch there with my cohost, Carlos Not Ja. Thank you so much for making us a part of your day. Please check us out at wwwwcom. Share this episode with friends, family, Co workers, your dog, your kids and, if you like what you hear, do as a favor and drop us a five star review on itunes. Until next time, Carlos and I thank you again for making us a part of your day. You've been listening to the BB Revenue Executive Experience to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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