The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Paul Bickford on Secret Sauce of Sales Enablement

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The term “sales enablement,” is thrown around a lot and can mean different things to different sales professionals.

We sat down with Paul Bickford, Denver Chapter President of the Sales Enablement Society, to discuss what sales enablement is, why it’s effective and how it can be leveraged as a resource.

You were listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BDB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about the secret sauce of sales enableman, how to make it effective in your organization, how to leverage and effective effectively as a resource. It's a hot topic today and to help us with that we have Paul Bickford. He's the Denver Chapter President for the sales enableman society and founder of transferment transformative sales solutionscuser for that. Welcome to the show, Paul. Appreciate you taking the time. Hey, thank you. I really appreciate you have me on the show chat. So before we get started about a little bit more detail on the audience of how you found yourself in a sales enablement career. A lot of the sales people that we know don't like you know, I'll play with fire trucks and say I want to be a salesperson when I grow up. But curious on the sales enablement side. How did we end up in sales enablement? Yeah, absolutely. So. You know, for me it was just having real passion for sales and I was successful, you know, in running the sale office and then I was a presidence club salesman and sales manager and I got into sales training for an eleven big in dollar company and I was the national sales training manager for six years and I learned about adult learning theory and how to drive behavior adoption after training events and kind of cut my teeth there. And then I started realizing that to really make things stick and drive return on investment it was important to make sure that managers were involved and got into leadership development for sales managers and coaching, and then I learned that, hey, we need to make sure sales people have the right tools and then we need to make sure that senior leaders are holding sales management accountable and all the different things that I've scaled out that have now become sales enablements. I imagine, like you know, many of my peers, realizing that there's a lot more to it, at least for me from the training side, where I started to say, Hey, there's their various other things that need to be in play to make skills development, performance management effective to drive sales results. And so as the sales enablement function is still in its fludgeling state as far as met an understanding across corporate America about what a sales enablement really mean, what are all the things that it entails, and those of us in the sales anymill side did you just have a real passion for evolving that understanding and really sculpting practices for the function. And so it's something that you have been doing that for twelve years. If you add in my sales career, the sales management career, it's been twenty plush years and it's just been a fantastic, you know, journey so far and I'm just really intrigued and feel very fortunate to be a part of what I'll call kind of this movement that we embrace around sales enablement with the society. Well, and let's talk about that for something. There's been a huge and especially those those that have been in sales in a long time, we've heard this word for a while and it's and it's meant various different things of various different times, but in the last couple of years it's making its way more and more into the vernacular the discussions. The sales enablement society is accomplishing great things. We had opportunity to talk to Scott Santucci earlier, end of last year and end so I'm curious, from your perspective, to give the audience kind of a definition of sales enablement as you see it today. Kind of let's set the contacts for the deeper discussion. Yeah, sure, and so, yeah, I mean it's like, Gosh, where about again? But you know, it's this I think of it like an umbrella chat that goes over so many different elements, and so most people's understanding comes from maybe one of it, if I ...

...can call them two ends of a spectrum, if you will. A lot of people either think it's like just sales training, and that's that's where I cut my teeth with it, for sure, or with all the sales enablement technology platforms that have come about to help align sales and marketing and create the ability for sales people to efficiently search for and utilize marketing content all lot of people think sales enablements just about marketing because of all of the candidly marketing money that these that these technology platforms spend on marketing. Effect it's been I call them the false profits some of them were they spend this one in particular, who's a really big player in the space, that it works me because they spend so much money on marketing that where they say sales enablement is this and they just talk about their product and I feel like it's it's actively confusing the space. But you know, everything sales enablement is, and you know I do a lot of talks on this and articles and such, and it's like it's about let's start from suit to nuts. I'm thinking of like a sales factory, right, so we have how are we setting up bringing and sales people into an organization? From who are we picking? Are We want? Are we are we providing the high enough compensation for the kinds of people that we want? US first quality. How are we assessing them? So think of like coming on the assembly lines. Okay, how are we assessing who we would bring into the organization? Because you can, you can, you know, you hire for talent, you train for skill. So are we got to make sure we're hiring people with the right competencies and know, by the way, are we hiring for our culture it? Are they going to be good fit with a company their ways and companies that help to assessments. I help companies with that myself, you know. So it's like, okay, let's make sure we have the right people and there's ways you can assess not just you can sell, but who will sell, and that's I'm very passionate about the you know, set of assessments. I'm partnered with the help, you know, ensure that. Then when they come in, it's like, okay, now let's train it on board you. So let's make sure we provide skills training with the opportunity to practice the skills and learning environment. We got a train for selling, skills for products, for processes and systems, and I can really go down a rabbit hole with that. Its quality training. So I'm going to try to back out of access. Kind of my passion there. So now we go on the Assembly Line to coaching. And Oh, by the way, have the manager has been trained on leadership and sales management, because sales managers are chosen usually because their top sales people and they're told make everybody like you go forth, they'll get them and it's a completely different skill set, it's a completely different set of competencies and you know, your best sales managers not necessarily your top or former. Plus, you really can't oblige your efforts because you're taking your top producer off the line. And you know, as Peter Drucker says, and I'm probably going to botch this a little bit, people get promoted to their highest level of incompetence or something like that, where then, if they're not successful, they either have to go back to sales and have egg on their face or, more than like a lot of times, they leave the company and start somewhere else so they don't have to go backwards socially or politically. And now we've really, you know, killed the golden goose, so to speak. So are the managers being selected to be the right sales managers to lead that sales person on the assembly line, so to speak? Are they being taught how to be leaders and managers? Are they being taught how to coach, what good coaching looks like and being empowered and held accountable? Frankly, with the right coaching tools to dry ever performance management cadence, with ten yard reps and new raps, so we have visibility into how people skills and outputs are progressing and how they're managing through that. And then on the assembly line we get to product. Are we just teaching sales people about product and bringing in solutions, engineers and products management, or are we saying let's just teach him how to sell it? And I spend a lot of a lot of passion on that because I see that botch all the time at the best intensions, where they given this huge data dump and they're confused or they're like okay, and we always talk about in sales Chad. Hey talk about customer business issues, hey talk about how what are the impacts of those issues? Where the cost of those issues and if we could help them with the will that and then we...

...come in and we give them this data dump on these are all the fields and the software and these are these different, you know, modules and did it a dun and so we're indirectly saying go talk about product. And so it's not, as Scott Santucci said, and I'd love to hear more from him about this at our sales enabled the society. He said don't build a value of value selling engine on a product, selling chassis. I'm not a car guy, but it really resonated with me and I was like, yes, this is what this is what I see, and he articulated it so much better and more succinctly than I than I probably do. But it's like, okay, are we really making sure that we have that? And again, I could go down a rabbit hole with that because I specialize and doing that with companies and setting that up. But then marketing tools, right. So we teach them the skills. I do sales certifications. Let's prove that they know it. Let's prove they can do it and get them certified, and then the coaching to make sure they're doing it consistently and then setting up communities of practice. There's some great, great tools out there, like one I'm a big fan of is something called just sold it by a company called radiate buzz, and it's about capturing informal sales tribal knowledge that will never make its way to marketing content, where sales people can reach out to those who have closed deals of similar size and similar verticals. Within, you know, a recent time frame and say what did you do, what did you avoid, what did you use to get there? And they can collaborate real time quickly on a platform that sales people will want to use, versus some technology they're being, you know, the where someone's cracking the whips and you have to fill in this information, and so making sure that they have the right tools, that they have the right tethers, beteaming their peers and and an other experts to get the information they need to close deals quickly. You know, in sales enablement you got to look at you know, how are we measuring sales enablement success? Is it time to close deals, win rates, increase revenue profit? That's one thing. You know, I asked when you do a needs assessment on the front end and say, okay, senior leaders, where we trying to go? What we need to change? Most time they say, look, we just want more sales. Right, but there's more to it than that. You know. It's like, are we trying to go sales in a certain space? When software it's like, are we trying to do more with a out strategy? All right, what was that me what do we need people doing to focus on that or hey, are we try to increase profits or sales? Because you're trying to increase profits, your strategy, a discipline strategy, is sometimes you'll give up sales because you want that profit percentage higher. Are we trying to grow sales and it's okay, the profit goes down, then that's a different strategy. We got to figure out what that is and then include that in what's going on. And I think I don't know that I'll say backtrack other than maybe pull back from my my assembly line analogy of a salesperson factory for a second. Is being at that senior level meetings. Is Scotting Rodert Jefferson, who's a sales enablement global leader with Marquetto who I like. I kind of follow his stuff and he looks at some of the mine and one thing he said last year I really liked to say, if you don't have a seat at the table, you better bring a folding chair. You know, if we're not a line and sales enablement at the top of the food chain, then we will struggle to be seen as a strategic resource and it's hard to politically have the social capital to be able to come in and say at first understand what's going on in those meetings, to drive it through with the tactical but also to have input at those meetings. One thing I was fascinated by at our sales enablement Society International Conference in Dallas in October, Heather Cole, with serious decisions in her presentation, said that twenty four percent, hear me on this, twenty four percent of sales enablement practitioners are reporting directly to directly to theirs, to the CEOS of their organization, and I thought, wow, that's the kind of thing that we in the Society of passion around and it's not about ego, it's not about because I get it. So couple things. One is...

...you're an individual practitioner. Most companies and army one. There are some companies that have fleshed it out and they have full sales enablement departments with multiple players. But you know, if you're coming in and you're sending at the table with people that have, you know, a few decades of experience, usually they've got large, you know, pnls they're responsible for, they have, you know, large organizations underneath them and saying hey, the sales enabling person needs to be at the table, it's like, wait a minute, what's how are they at that level? And it's about understanding. It's not about a level, it's about a function. And so, just like I was trying to explain to somebody once, just like the CFO doesn't tell the CMO that they know about marketing, it's like that's why they're in those meetings to talk about the marketing piece and vice versa. Nobody at that table. No sales enablement, like the sales enablement person. So that's all it is, is being the ambassador than information and making sure, as we are asked and as we are supposed to influence without authority, as we are supposed to beat the conductors while all of these other leaders play the instruments, we have to be able to liaise with and interact with all these people, especially in a way where there's not political, you know, issue you with. Why are you going to talk to this person there's three levels above you? Or why don't you go talk to your boss? Before we went to we have time for that, and I don't need to be the cavalier about that, but it's like we want to be efficient, we want to be effective, we're supposed to make sure that the silos of marketing and sales and even sometimes, like you know hr you know, depending on who owns recruiting or if they're involved in the leadership development, that that color some of the sales management, development, sales operations with compensation. How our territories being lined up? That's another P structure. You know, I work for company. Once I had twenty one sales people per manager. Well, it's not tenable. So when we talk about in sales enablement, you have to coach your people and here's how to coach. Do we have the right structure to make sure they can do that? That's not tenable. So you have to look at that. If we are looking at hey, we have to have sales people hit quota. You Know Jim Dickie, who is I'm a big fan of. He's a member of our Denver Chapter. He is a global leader in sales enablement. was talking about it one of our chapter meetings. He said, Hey, you know, it's crazy. The data that's come in for two thousand and seventeen. Is that only fifty eight percent? I think is actually fifty three percent of salespeople and sales organizations are hitting quota and everybody's like, oh my gosh, that's crazy, that's nuts, and I agree that. Then the conversation and our meeting started with well, why aren't they hitting quotas? You know it was it's down from sixty some percent the year before or and what do we need to do to close the gap? And I completely agree and I'm part of that discussion. My thought, though, concurrently, where these quoteas coming from. Why are we doing that? When I talk to organizations and they say we've an a quote of three years in a row, but we keep raising a ten percent every year. It's like, based on what right? And it's that the right thing to do? You know, in practice? I say in theory, but no, in practice. It's supposed to be bottom up right. What's realistic for that territory. The manager rolls of sales people, countles so they don't sand bag or create a false positive, and then they gather up with they think their team can do and then they go up to their manager, who holds them Accountabile, make sure they're not sand baggy, and say, okay, this is realistic from our area or our vertical our geography, and they and that's it. And it keep funneling up until the the senior leader and even the CEO says, okay, this is what we can deliver and then puts it out there on the street or to a board, depending on you know, as a private equity is publicly traded, as a privately of whatever. Instead, what happens is the board, Wall Street, the investors say we want this kind of growth, so they say, well, hell if we have to do that. Or we want these kind of returns, and they say, well, Gosh, to do that that we need to create this this much in sales. So then it's top down instead a bottom up. The better figure this out,...

...man, you better figure out where to get this number. And so everybody's in like crisis management, going all man, and I not necessarily crisis manager, but looking at all. Right, we'll start it. We gotta figure this out. And it's so it's like are we trying to fit a square hagging around hole? Are we trying to, you know, were using hope is a strategy. Are we trying to? I seen this actually even somewhat recently with one organization, where it's like, are we trying to just push the heck out of our people to say, you know, failer is not an option, we got to go get it, blah, Blah Blah. But are we again sales enablement? Are we empowering people with the right skill set, tool set mindset to be successful? That's what sales enablement has to do, and we have to cut through the politics or the individual agendas of different groups and people who all mean well usually, and say, hey, guess what, we're just supposed to help a line and execute the things that you're already held accountable for, the things that you're already measured by, the things that are already tethered to your compensation in your career development, and we're just here to make that easier. I always say I'm not here to add to your inbox with the things I'm going to ask you to do. I'm here to help you with the what you're supposed to be doing and trying to do anyway, which is, if I'm talking to sales lier, develop your people, hit your number. That's it, that I'm just helping you do that quickly, more efficiently, owned by the way, I help you do it, you know as well, and so I don't know. I mean that's those are all the things that are sales enablement. And Scott See and Touche was floating something out to me several months ago about another thing that goes under the umbrella, which is the CFO, and I said what do you mean, Scott, and he said, well, you know, the see ifos, the one that is held accountable for the number. They're the ones that, you know, help to find revenue. How is revenue recognize? How is revenue defined in an organization? You know, it can be different. And I don't have a finance background. I'm a sales guy, you know what I mean. I'm a sales purist and I'm I'm operationally sound and savvy as far as that goes, but as far as being a, you know, an in inter kate spreadsheet jockey, as far as being a finance whiz or Gurger, that's just not my background. And so but he said, hey, you know the CFO, they're are the ones that decide what the sales leader's budget is. And usually we stop at the sales leader because that, you you, who we report to. And most organizations is a EBP of sales, a csoh whatever. And he said we've got to take it up another not to the CFO level and help make a case so when they slice off the budget for sales, they give them a bigger piece. So by saying, Hey, here's what we can do for sales, here's it want to do with sales and here's how this is going to help the revenue here that has how this is going to help you, Cefo, with what you're evaluated on, what you're trying to accomplish and selling even there. And so I think part of the thing with the society as we're evolving this function is being transparent, humble and vulnerable. So, for example, you know, and I don't say this with arrogance, I do feel like I've got the credibility, because I've been in the trenches for a long time, that I consider myself a subject matter expert sales enablement and I feel like I've borne that out and and proven that. By the same token, a the humility and the vulnerability to say, Hey, you know what, I don't have a fine, it's back down. Hey, you know what, I have the WHO humility to go. I don't think know that I have the credibility in the chops to have a conversation with the CFO about those elements and have credibility. What do I need to learn and be exposed to to be able to help an organization? To have that conversation, and I think that's where the really the in I'mitted Wax Corny for a minute, the the altruism in this, the transparency with the Society of people saying, all right, what can we do to help each other? What can we do to help the organizations we serve? If we don't have a given background, if we don't have, you know, different things, just like I'm a present club salespeople. There are a lot of sales enable people to come out of sales operations or the come out of other areas of the business, and so that's something where they look for credibility and understanding to supplement and so I think...

...all of us are just Chad. Sometimes I use the analogy. I don't know if you ever read this an elementary school, but it was a it was a it was a short story called stone soup and the if you are, you familiar with it. I am not not one ever know, I don't think. Anyway. Now that's okay. So it's kind of a sake fable, but whatever, it's I don't know where it originated, but basically it's like there's a village and they don't have very much food and, you know, they're not very as kind of a poor collective there, and so the families like where do we have for dinner? And the mother says we're going to have stone soup and they're like what are you talking about? And they put a pot of water down, they put a giant rock in the pot and they say this is going to be for the village and it's I guess it's a larger pot called or into something, and so everybody comes around and they're kind of looking like what's this about? So one person pipes up and says, Hey, I've got some carrots. Like it. Add to that, and they come over and slice up some carrots and somebody else's oh I've got some mutton, some lamb, you know lamb meat, and they come over and they drop that in and somebody else has some seasonings and somebody else has some other vegetables and somebody has mushrooms or whatever, and each person from the village adds just their little tiny bit that they have. Nobody has enough for, you know, a full meal, but as they all contribute. They have a they have a meal that's a stew that's robust enough for all to feast from that everybody contributed to, and I think that's what we're doing in the society and that's what us a sales anyone practitioners are doing, because companies are hungry and they're thinking, will know, sales enable was just the carrots, or no, it's just the lambs Moan, or it's just a you know, and it's like no, it's all this stuff and it has to be stirred together the right way and cooked at a certain temperature. And we've got companies that, with the best intentions, are trying to do sales enablement on the cheap or trying to go in and execute the function with only a partial understanding of the roll. And if I can continue with my my food cooking metaphor here, it's like we want a gourmet dish, but they want to take some cheap ingredients to throw them in the microwave for two minutes and eat and say this tastes like garbage. Sales enable but doesn't work. It's like well, no, hold on, you got to do it right first. And so we'd be better off. We would be better off if people were saying what a sales enablement and some are the challenge, Chad, and you might know this, as people are saying I don't need to know, I already know and they don't. Well, that becomes part of the problem, right they think, and this is I mean, this is why I go back to that. You know the kind of the question like when? When, if you've been in sales for a while, you've heard that terminology. You've heard sales enablement. It meant something different five, six, seven years ago then it's meant the last year and a half. Hence why the conversation? And I'm curious when you talk about you and Scott have talked about getting a seat at the table or you mentioned someone who said bring a folding chair. Organizations have struggle. I think I've seen sales professionals and sales groups struggle to get a, let's say, fair and even seat at the table. They may be given the folding chair, just sales in general. How do you help companies understand that it's just as important to have that sales enablement effort, have a fair and consistent seat at the table and not just a folding chair. Now. It's a fair point. I mean some of it is change management and driving like there's a great book that I reference and I've used going into different organizations called the first ninety days, and it's just a great it's pretty iconic in the business literature world of anybody coming in new to any company in any role. So that some stuff there that I use. But honestly, mostly the first thing I say just like you don't want to pick sales managers based on success in sales. You know, when you hire sale people, are you paying enough to track quality people? First all? WHO's your sales enablement candidate? I was talking to some of the other day and I didn't realize that. They said, you know that some of the organizations they've seen is a person who wasn't successful in sales, that they like them or feel like they're sharp or whatever those they will go into sales enablement. So, and I'm even say not to do that if they can learn to get where they need to get necessarily. But if you're talking...

...about being a see at a seat of the table, are you putting the right person in sales enablement or do you have somebody in charge of that person that's in sales enablement, because you have to have someone who's got the credibility to be at that table. And if you have someone that maybe is partly there, what? What? What can you set up to ensure that they get the right exposure and background to be able to contribute to meaningful way to those discussions? But I didn't even say initially, let's say someone's got to get there, just letting him sit in these meetings and listen and learn and see how decisions are made and see how the go to market strategies are constructed and see how these departments are liaising and contributing and trying to align at those highest levels. And there's a lot of education just in that even but prior to the contribution of sales enablement inserting themselves in those discussions, I think the first part is listening. You know, seek first to understand and then to be understood, if I can steal, you know, Stephen cubbies to the habit and insert it there and so, but making sure that there's an understanding of how to contribute, how to put it out there. I know one of our chapters, I think it's Seattle. I think it's Seattle, but it might be. It might be Atlanta is focused on those sea level conversations. Is focused on exactly that and how to have those conversations. My my deal chat from a strategy standpoint is going into an organization and proving value quickly. I can do an a return on investment turn around in as little as ninety days, and when I can show hard numbers tied distinctly and directly to what I do and isolate that from other factors that could also be part of where their uptakes, that really helps. And then asking those questions. So, for example, I always say if you want to be strategic, don't don't do what you're asked, question what you're told. And so, for example, if the sales leader comes to me, and this has happened, and says hey, we need we need training on closing the sale, can you put something together, the tactical, non strategic practitioner with the best of intentions will say, Hey, I'm a good corporate citizen, this is what I'm paid to do. They say yes, the sales leaders happy and they go source content or repurpose content. They have a strategically will say absolutely, I can do that. If it's okay, I'd like to understand a little more about what what your needs are, and that course, the sales eavierl say yeah, that's fine, and you say, Hey, I'm curious, why do you need? Why are you looking for training on using the sale and they say, well, clearly we're not closing in a fields is. This is a challenge. We've got to get the number going back to, you know, cracking the whip on the quotas. Maybe, when you say okay, that's fine, Hey, I'm curious, why aren't we closing enough deals? What's your research show? What? If, what if your discussions and meetings proven out to you? And if they say well, you know, we're just we're losing out to the very specific competitors and they're beating us on price, he said, well, why is that? And they say, well, you know, our pricing is fair for what we offer. We have functionality that they don't, and so it's just been a struggle with our sales people to sell against those competitors and justify the value for total cost of ownership for what we sell versus others. And then that's when I would insert and say okay, well, Hey, if I hear you correctly, it sounds like. I think what you're saying is you need training and help on competitive differentiators amongst those competitors are losing to, and also training on overcoming the price objection and selling value, and those things will help close those deals, versus training on closing the sale and, you know, ways to kind of wrap up the deal when you're on the back end. Is that? Is that right, or am I missing something? So you're so humble, but you are definitely guiding and directing and they say, Oh yeah, no, that's a good point. And you start doing that and you start showing people visibility two things they hadn't thought about, or doing root cause analysis instead...

...of hacking away at symptoms. I think about like are we cutting off branches on a tree? Are we getting down to the route? You know what I mean, if we're trying to remove something. And you start doing that and instead of people coming out of higher level meetings and telling you what they want you to do because of what they discussed, they start having you sit in on those meetings and they see the value in that. So it can be organic, doing proof of concepts, if you will, where you take if people are skeptical about the value you can add or are you being inserting yourself with what they're doing at amid senior level? Take somebody. I always can find at least a few people. Usually they come to me. Hey, I see that I want you're doing with you mind working with more closely with my team or my verticalize? Absolutely, and start doing some deeper level things, some more sophisticated things with a subgroup and an organization, and they start seeing numbers and they start clamoring about, you know, the success of your efforts and how good you are helping them and how credible you are with how what you're doing a contribute, and that ripples out an organization and helps as well. So sometimes it's an organic strategy. If you're not there, they're ways to get there. I think a Gen Burns out of our DC chapter. She's our Virginia Chapter President in that area, and Scott was telling me the Gen, in a period of I want to say six months, went from reporting to I think a salesperson, even I'm not sure how that worked, as a sales enable practitioner, all the way up to reporting to her CFO and jumping three or four times in the food chain of reporting structure because she continue to add value because when she was is it? It's something that you didn't know, she said, let me work on that and would come back to people in the society or in her chapter say how do I do this? How do I present this? To the point where Scott told me her cfo one time said what does this cult you're a part of? Who is this group going to a coming back with? You know what I mean, and it's like that's exciting to us in the society because again, it's about the following the function. It's ultimately what I would say, this is about adding value to the companies we support, the function overall of the sales enablement and ultimately, to the sales enablement practitioners their careers and their personal development. And so it's just exciting for me to be a part of this. Again, I don't say it lightly, really is a movement in the function. To help people understand, because there's day we have data now that shows if you support a sales enable and function, if you give them that strategic insight and input, if you fund the efforts and allow them to do what they do, what we do, the average uptick is a ten percent difference in performance than those that don't and said there's lots of other stats that support you know, the revenue. So it's really easy to make that case. That's the other thing about being strategic. As you're asking, Chad, how does somebody get a seat at the table? You don't have to come in. So again, if you're if you're intimidated, or if if they want you to be intimidated, that you're going in with the senior leaders and you're the sales any will practitioner, and it's like you know nothing. They maybe would say this, but why would you need to be in these meetings with us at this level? And you just come again and saying hey, look, here's the data. Right, I'm Switzerland, this is what the data shows, this is what I'm hired to do. The data shows companies that have somebody at a strategic level that funded accordingly, that allows someone to be a someone to build bridges between the silos of the different functions in the organization. We get this increase in revenue, this increase in in wind rate percentage, this increase in performance, this increase. Do we want that? We want that right. And they go well, of course it's like, okay, well, this is why we should dip. Best in class companies do X. wouldn't we want to do x? This is what x would look like. Here's what you would do in your part of Plan X. here's what you would do. Here's how I would help. This is how we hold ourselves accountable. This is how we measure. Do you feel good about that? And so it's not going to replace of Ego or opinion. We've got facts, we've got data. I'm just here to execute and be the ambassador of this methodology, of this structure in this framework that's proven, proven to bear out results. And you know what, it comes to him...

...and eggs. The chickens involved, but the pig is committed. Right. So if companies are going to fut to rount the companies that find that their challenge of sales enable men to seeing it strategic or seeing the value is a lot of times there there the chicken and the saying yeah, well, we pay for somebody to be in sales enablement, but we tell them only to sales training, or yeah, we have sales enablement, but the the compensation is. I've seen this a lot. is so low, they're not willing to pay and so they bring in people that you know, they can get for what they're charging with they're paying, and so they're not getting somebody that is a quality person to to be able to provide those deliverables. And that's been somewhat cannibalizing because, you know, I was talking to somebody in HR with a company and they said, well, external data, as HR companies look at compensation, they look at what's the date in the market? WHAT ARE PEOPLE PAYING? Sales, anyone practitioners? So then that's what we put out to pay, but it's because somebody companies don't get it, because the function is still so fledgling. Then it's creating this false positive. That's what you should pay. But tomary Shank but out a great article a couple months ago about here's what sales enable my practitioners should be making, based on the skill, the organization, the amount of their responsibilities. And anyone you know, for example, any business that's a billion dollars in over, should be paying on average. mighting be the minimum? Yeah, I think the minimum is a hundred Fiftyzero K base for a company of that size and or more. And so a lot of companies aren't doing that just because they haven't previously. And so again, just like for sales, people were paying the right you know, to get the right sales. We're paying you get the right manage. Well, you get what you pay for. A practitioners right. Yeah, and gave so pay for intinuing that because it is continuing that movement. So okay. So when to be careful on time here. So we've talked a lot about the executive side of it. How you get to see to the table. What is sales name of the power it brings to it? If you had to give if you had sales professionals that were coming into contact with sales enablement for the first time, what would you tell them so that they they themselves as those armies of one, as your reference, actually get more value out of it in the trenches? Okay, so let me make sure understand your question. What would I tell salespeople about the best way to yeah, so if you were talking to individual contributors and they're like what the hell is this sales and they went function and how do I interact with it? How should they how should a sales professional view and interact with that sales enablement function in order to get the most value, the most return for their own efforts out of it. Right. So, and we'll just take the training pieces an example. There's always any time you do training, any client of every done training with, there's somebody in that room and honestly, when I first got trained, it was me. There's some dude in the back of the room going why the Hell Am I in here? This is a waste of my time. And so we talked about willing student. You have to be a willing student. Take one step towards me, I'll take to towards you, kind of thing. But if you had to help sales people understand, here's what this funk. You know, we just talked about kind of what the function is. How best should they view it and approach it and interact with it to get greater results? Now it's at their point. It's funny to say that because, yeah, that's one thing that I've learned to become good at within you. Yeah, you've got people and they were it's like one, why am I taking part in this training? Because I'm good at what I do. I mean not if you're dealing you you with new hires, you know, certainly their new hires in a entry level roll, but but yeah, it's like you're taking way away from selling. Why do I need this? I've been doing this for a long time. And, by the way, who the heck are you telling me how to do this? I don't know. You you know if that's the case. And so I learned very quickly. I can take a group and within an hour have people turned around and buying in and saying, okay, this is different. So I think for sales people we can say hey, be open, realized that this works or whatever, but honestly it's that's I really put...

...that on the sales enablement practitioner to make sure they set up these initiatives and guidance and whatever to make sure the sales people see it. It's up for us to drive it more so so they see the value in doing these things and again proving out, bearing out these things are successful. And I think that Jeffrey Getemer, who is you know what the Sales Gurus, said in one of the programs that I took with him where he said, Hey, is somebody a twenty year salesperson or they a one year salesperson? Twenty times and you know he used an extreme example. He's like yeah, somebody you sit there and they, you know, get all cocky, like yeah, but in sales twenty years. He's like they had problems being the car paved in last month. It's like, you know, get a clue here, and I wouldn't be that. You know, you know Brash and I don't think he was saying he would be Brat that brash to the individual. But it's like again, it's about what are your results? Will Tell me how long you've been in your tenure in the roll. What, if your success has been? What is your current level of success? And, quite frankly, the other piece is sharing with people how, Hey, it's a whole lot easier to take somebody who's already doing well and getting them to do better. What I'm in front of a group, one of the things I say is, hey, people pay thousands of dollars for executive coaches. You know, I practice what I preach. I'm a coach and sales of leadership coach and I pay coaches myself right because I believe in what I do and take advantage of that framework as well. I said, people pay a lot of money for coaches. I see you're getting out for free. I said, I'm getting paid. The company's paying me to get you in front of me so you can make more money for your family and for your goals. Right, if you're making two hundred thousand dollars a year, that's great. They're paying me to try to get you to fifty or three hundred. Why would you fight that? And so these are just just one of the things I do to really change that paradigm and start to get people looking at this more as a value add for them versus a, you know, a set of events or tasks that they have that they're being told they have to complete or take part in, and so, you know, and then also utilizing them, if somebody has really tenured, setting up the kind of training where they can contribute and share what they've done and and help their peers and practice some things in front of in front of others to show what good looks like. And that's a great way to get buy into because they see that their success is recognize, their skill is recognized, and we're kind of holding that up, lauding that and helping to try to scale that out amongst others in the group and that makes them usually feel good, as well as being kind of a thought leader within their peer group. Excellently, Paul. I for a listeners interested in talking more about the topics we touched on today, learning more about what you can do for their organizations. What's the best way to get in contact with you? You could check out transformative sale solutionscom. Really the best way. Just go to Linkedin. I've got eighty five plus recommendations. I've got videography of my work and speaking conferences and some of these different things that people want to vet me there as well. But just to reach out and you know, I can share with them how I've done this with the organizations and I've got my latest initiative've sales people doing over two hundred percent of quota with with, you know, putting some of these things in place that we've talked about today. So happy to help or at least have the conversation with anybody WHO's interested. Excellent. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to be on the show. It's been great. Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. chattled forward to staying in touch and continue to work together in the future. All right, everyone, that does it for this episode. Please check us out a be to be REV exaccom. Share the episode with friends, families, Co workers. Leave us a review on itunes please. We do pay attention to that. And until next time, we have value prime solutions. With you all, nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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