The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

Paul Bickford on Secret Sauce of Sales Enablement

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The term “sales enablement,” is thrown around a lot and can mean different things to different sales professionals.

We sat down with Paul Bickford, Denver Chapter President of the Sales Enablement Society, to discuss what sales enablement is, why it’s effective and how it can be leveraged as a resource.

You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated ele executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimized growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies were tools and resources. You've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcome everyone to the Bto be revenue executive experience. I'm your host Chad Sanderson today we'retalking about the secret souce of sales and ableman how to make it effective inyour organization how to leverage, if effectiv effectively as a resource,it's a hot topic today and to help us with that. We Ove Paul Bickford, he'sthe Denver Chapter President for the sales, an ablement society and foundherof Transferis transformative sales solutions, excuse ef that welcome tothe show Pal preciate you'e taken the time hey! Thank you. I really appreciate youhave me on the show chat so before we get started about a little bit moredetail on the audience of how you found yourself in a sales anablement career,a lot of the sales people that we know don't like you know, play with firetrucks and say I want to be a salesperson when I grow up but curiouson the sales and ablement side. HOW DID WE END UP IN SALES? enablement? Yeah?Absolutely so you know. For me it was just having real PA passion for sales,and I was successful. You know in running Thi sales officeand then I was a presience club salesman and sales manager and I gotinto sales training for a eleven billiondollar company, and I was the national sales training manager for six years,and I learned about adult learning theory and how to drive behavioradoption after training events and kind of cut my teeth there, and then Istarted realizing that to really make things stick and drive roturn oninvestment. It was important to make sure that managers were involved andgot into leadership development for sales managers at coaching, and then Ilearned that hey. We need to make sure sales people have the right tools andthen we need to make sure that senior leaders are holding sales managementaccountable and all the different things that have scaled out that havenow become sales. enablements. Imagine, like you, know many, my peers,realizing that there's a lot more to it, at least for me, from the training side,where I started to say: Hey, there's thereare various other things that needto be in play to make skills, development, performancemanagement, effective, to drive sales results, and so, as the sales enablement function isstill in its fludgling state as far as and understanding across corporateAmerica about what what is sales and ebwint really mean what are all thethings hat did entails, and those of US inthe sales and Anbel sideYo just have a roal passion for evolving that understanding a reallysculpting practices for the function, and so is somethingthat yeah been doing at for twelve years. If you add, in my sales careerthe sales management, career, hit's been twenty plus years and it's justbeen a fantastic, you know journey so far and I'm justreally intrigued and feel very fortunate to be a part of what I'L I'llcall kind of this movement that we embrace around sales enablementwith the society. Well and let's talk about thet for saying, there's been ahuge, a especially those of us that have been in sales in a a long time.We've heard this word for a while and it's and it's meant various differentthings at various different times, but in the last couple of years it's making its way more and more intothe vernacular. The discussions, the sales enablement society isaccomplishing great things. We had opportunity to talk to CASS ANTUCCIearlier end of last year and and so I'm curious from your perspective, to givethe audience kind of a definition of sales enablement. As you see it today,kind of let's set the contact for the deeper discussion, yeah sure and so yeah I mean it's like Gush. Where do Ibegin? But you know it's this. I think of it like an umbrella chat that goesover so many different elements, and so most people's understanding comes from,...

...maybe one of if I can call them twoends of a spectrum. If you will a lot of people either think it's likejust sales training and that's that's where I cut my teeth with it for sureor with all the sales enablement technology platforms that have comeabout to help aligne sales and marketing and create the ability for sales people toefficiently search for and utilize marketing content. A lot of people think sales enablementsjust about marketing because of all of the candidly marketing money that thesethat these technology platforms spend on marketing infect I it's been, I callthem the false profits. Some of them were. They spend this one in particularwho's a really big player in the space that it irks me because they spend somuch money on marketing that where they say sales enablement isthis and they just talk about their product, and I dont feel like it'sactivly confusing the space, but you know everything sales an ableman is,and you know I do a lot of talks on this and articles and such and it'slike it's about. Let's start from suit tonuts. I'm is thinking like a salesfactory right, so we have. How are we setting up bringing and sales people intoorganization from WHO are we picking? Are We wanter? We are we providing thehind of compensation for the kinds of people that we want is first quality.How are we assessing them sitting ar like coming on the assembleline? So,okay? How are we assessing who we would bring into the organization? Becauseyou can you can you know you hire for talent, you train for skill so or wegot to make sure we're hiring people with right competencies on know. By theway, are we haring for our culture? Are they going to be good fit with acompany, theire ways and companies that help you assessments? I holp companieswith that myself. You know so it's like. Okay, let's make sure we have the rightpeople and there's ways you can asses ts, not just you can cell, but who willsell and that's I'm very passionate about the you know,set of assassments time partner with to help. You know ensure that then, whenthey come in, it's like okay, now, let's train it on Boaru. So let's makesure we provide skills training with the opportunity to practice the skillsin learning environment. We got a train for selling skills for product for processes and systems, and I could really go down a rabbit holewith that Ain. I quality training, SOM goant, to try to back out of that,because that's kind of my my passion there. So now we go on the AssemblyLine to coaching and O by the way had the managers been trained onleadership and sales management, because sales managers are chosenusually because theyare top seals, people and they're told make everybodylike you go forth. He get them and it's a completely different skill set. It'sa completely different set of competencies, and you know your best.Sales manager is not necessarily your top performer plus. You really can'toblize your efforts because you're Tak, your top producer off the line- and youknow, as Peter Drucker says- and I'm probably going to botch this a littlebit. People get promoted to their highestlevel of incompetence or something like that. Where then, if they're notsuccessful, they either have to go back to sales and EG on their face or morethe like a lot of times. They leave the company and start somewhere else, sothey don't have to go backward socially or politically, and now we've really,you know, killed the golden goose so to speak. So are the managers beingselected to be the right sales managers to lead that salesperson on theassembly line so to speak? Are they mean taught how to be leaders andmanagers? Are they being taught how to coach? What good coaching looks likeand being empowered and held accountable? Frankly, with the rightcoaching tools to drive or performance management cadence with Tenur draps andnew raps, so we have visibility into help. People's skills and outputs areprogressing and how they're managing through that and then on theassemblyline we get to product. Are we just teaching sales people aboutproduct and bringing in solutions engineers and products management? Orare we saying, let's just teach, thim how to sell it? And I spend a lot oflot of passion on that, because I see that botch all the time with thebestesenses where they give him this huge data dump and they're confused otthey're like okay, and we always talk about in sales. Chad, hey talk aboutcustomer business issues, hey talk about what are the impacts of thoseissues were the cost of those issues...

...and if we could help them with whatwoul that and then we come in and we give him this data dump on. These areall the fields and the software- and these are these different. You know modules and Dedadida, and so we'reindirectly saying go talk about product Ato, it's not as Scott Saantuchi said,and I'd love to hear more from him about this. At our sales enabledsociety he said: Don't build a value value selling engine on a productselling Chassi, I'm not a car guy, but it reallyresonated with me- and I was like yes. This is what this is, what I see and hearticulated it so much better and more sacintly than than I probably do, but it's like okay. Are we reallymaking sure that we hade? That and again I could go down a rabbit holewith that, because I specialize and doing that with companies and settingthat up, but then marketing tools right, so we teach them the skills. I do sale,certifications, let's prove that they know it. Let's prove they can do it and get them certified and then thecoaching to make sure they're doing it consistently and then setting up communities of practice. There's somegreat great tools out there like one I'm, a big fan of is something calledjust sold it by a company called radiate bus and it's about capturinginformal sales, tribal knowledge that will never make its way to marketingcontent where sales people can reach out to those who have closed deals ofsimilar size and similar verticals within you know a recent time frame and say:What did you do? What did you avoid? What did you use to get there and theycan collaborate real time quickly on a platform that sales people will want to useversus technology? Theyre, being you know the where someone's cracking thewhips and Ou have to fill in this information and so making sure thatthey hade the right tools? Did they have the right, tevers, Berteen, theirpeers and other experts to get the information they need to close dealsquickly? You know in sales enablement you got tolook at, you know. How are we measuring salesenablement success? Is it time to close deals, win rates, increased revenue,profit! That's one thing! You know I ask when you do a needs assessment onthe front end and say: okay, see your leaders where re we trying to go. Whatdo we need to change most time they say. Look. We just want more sacles right,there's more to it than that. You know it's like. Are we trying to gro salesin a certain space en software? It's like? Are we trying to do more with acloud strategy right? What does that mean? What do we need people doing tofocus on that or hey? Are we trying to increase profits or sales becauseyou're trying to crease profits your strategy, a discipline strategy, issometimes you'll give upsailes, because you want that propit percentage higrher.Are we trying to grow sales and it's okay? The propit goes down, then that'sa different strategy. We got to figure out what that is and then include thatin what's going on, and I think I don't know that I'll say backtrack other thanmaybe pull back from my assembly line. Analogy of a salesperson factory for asecond is being at that senior level meetings iskining, roter, Jafferson, who's, a sales enablement global leader withMarquetta, who I like, I kind of follow his stuff, and he looks at some on mineand one thing he said last year I really like to sait. If you don't havea seat at the table, you better bring a folding care. Notyou know. If we're nota line and sales enablement at the top of the food chain, then we will struggle to be seen as astrategic resource and it's hard to politically have the social capital tobe able to come in and say at first understand, what's going on in thosemeetings to drive it through with the tactical, but also to hade input atthose metiegs. One thing I was fascinated by at our sales enablementSociety International Conference in Dallas in October, Heather Col, withserious decisions, and her presentation said that twenty four percent hear me on this. Twenty four percent ofsales, enablement practationers are reporting directly directly to their tothe CEOS of their organization. I thought wow, that's the kind of thingthat we in the society ofe passion around, and it's not about ego, it'snot about, because I get it so a couple...

...things. One is you're an individualpractitionor, most companies, an army one. There are some companies that havefleshed it out and they have full sales, enablement departments with multipleplayers. But you know if you're coming in and You'ere sitting at at the tablewith people that have you know a few decades of experience. Usuallythey've got large. You know PNLS theyre responsible, for they have. You know large organizations underneaththem and saying hey this sales. An abling person needs to be at the table.It's like ell, wait a minute. What's how are they at that level? And it'sbeen understanding? It's not about a level at's about a function, and sojust like I was trying to explain to somebody once just like the CFO doesn't tell the CMOthat they know about marketing. It's like that's! Why they're in thosemeetings to talk about the marketing piece and vice versa? Nobody at thattable no sales enablement like the sales, an ablemen person, so that's allit is, is being the ambassdor than information and making sure as we areasked and as we are supposed to influence without authority as we aresupposed to beet the conductors. While all of these other leaders play theinstruments, we have to be able to liaze with and interact with all thesepeople, especially in a way where there's not political, you knowissue with why ar e you goingto talk to this person, ther three levels above you or why? Don't you gotalk to your boss before you went to? We have time for that, and I don't neadto be be cavalier about that. But it's like we want to be efficient. We want to beeffective, we're supposed to make sure that these silos of marketing and sales,and even sometimes like you, know, hr you know, depending on who ownsrecruiting or if they're involved in the leadership development t a that color. Some of the sales managementdevelopment sales operations with compensation, Howour territories beinglined up. That's another piece structure. You knowi work for a company once hadtwenty one sales, people per manager- that's not tennable. So when we talkabout sales enablement, you have to coach your people and hears how tocoach. Do we have the right structure to make sure they can do that? That'snot tenable! So you have to look at that. If we are looking at hey, we haveto have sales people hit quota. You Know Jim Dickie, who is I'm a big fanof he's a member of our Denver chapter. He is a global leader and sales.ANABLEMANT was talking about it, one of our chapter metins, he said Hey, youknow it's crazy. The data that's come in for twothousand and seventeen is that only fifty eight percent. I think it'sactually fifty three percent sales people and sales organizationsare hitting quota and severybody's like Oh, my gosh, that's crazy! That's nuts,and I agree that then the conversation and our meeting started with. Whyaren't they hitting quotas? You know it's down from sixty some percent theyear before and what do we need to do to close the gap? And I completelyagree- and I'm part of that discussion- my thought, though, concurrently, wherethese quotas coming from. Why are we doing that? When I talk toorganizations- and they say we havenan quote or three years in a ru? Well, wekeep raising it ten percent every year, it's like based onl what right and it's that theright thing to do. You know in practice I say in theory, but now in practiceit's supposed to be bottom up right. What's realistic for that territory,the manager Olls the sales people countwill say they don't sandbag orcreate a false positive, and then they gather up what they think their teamcan do and then they go up to their manager, who holds them accountable,make sure they're not sand, Baggi and say okay. This is realistic from ourarea, O our vertical orgeography and they and that's it and it keepsfunneling up until the senior leader, and even the CEO says. Okay, this iswhat we can deliver and then puts it out there on the street or to a boarddepending on you know, is a private equity is publicly traded as aprivately or whatever. Instead, what happens is the Board Wall Street? Theinvestors say we want this kind of growth o they say well hell. If we haveto do that or we want these kind of returns and they say well Gosh to dothat that we need to create this. This much in sales said that it's topd downinstead of pot hem up. I better figure...

...this out man, you better figure outwhere to get this number, and so everybody said like crisis managementgoing. Oh man and a not necessarily crisis manager, but looking at allright well start it. We got to figure this out and it's so it's like. Are wetrying to fit a square peg and around whole? Are we trying to you know, wereusing Hopeis a strategy? Are we trying to seen this exually even somewhatrecently with one organization where it's like? Are we trying to just pushthe heck out of our people to say you know, failure's, not a option. We gotto go, get it Blah Blah Blah, but are we again sales an ablemant? Are weempowering people with the right skill set cool, set mindset to be successful?That's what sales enablemant has to do and we have to cut through the politicsor the individual agendas of different groups and people who all mean well,usually and say: Hey, guess what we're just supposed to help a line andexecute the things that you're already held accountable for the things thatyou're already measured by the things that are already tethered to yourcomvensation in your career development and words, is here to make that easier.I always say I'm not here, to add to your inbox with the things I'm going toask you to do I'm here to help you with the what you're supposed to be doingand trying to do anyway, which is Lif. I'm talking toSales Leer, develop your people hit your number,that's it that I'm just helping you do that quickly, more officiently owened!By the way I holpe you do it. You know as well, and so I don't know I mean that's. Those areall the things that are sales enablement, it' Scots antucheat wasfloating something out to me several months ago about another thing thatgoes under the umbrella, which is the CFO, and I said what do you meanScott and he said well, you know the CFOs, the one that is held accountablefor the number they're, the ones that you know, help the fine revenun how iesrevenue recognize. How is revenue to find in an organization? You know itcan be different and I don't have a finance background, I'm a sales guy.You know what I mean, I'm a sales purist and I'm I'm operationally soundand savvy as far as that goes, but as far as being a you know an in intricate spreadsheejockey as far as being a finance whizar grewer. This is not my background andso, but he said, hey, you know the CFO.They are the ones that decide what the sales leaders budget is and usually westop at the sales leader, because that Uyo,who we report toin most organizations, is a evpsales a CSO whatever, and hesaid we've got to take it up. Another notch to the CFO level and help make acase so when they slice off the budget for sales, they give them a biggerpiece. So by saying hey, here's what we can do for sales her's that want to dowith sales and here's how this is going to help the revenue hear that hows outthis is going to help you cf, with what you're evaluatindg on a what you'retrying to accomplish and selling even there, and so I think, part of thething with the society as we're evolving. This function is beingtransparent and humble and vulnerable. So, for example, you know- and I don't say this withthere against- I do feel like I've got e the credibility, because I've been inthe trenches for a long time that I consider myself a subject matter,expert sales, enablement and I feel like I've bored that out and proven that by the same token, AP r,the humility and the vulnability to say, Hey, you know what I don't have afinance back down. Hey. You know what I hade the humility to go. I don't thinkknow that I have the credibility and the chops to have a conversation withthe CFO about those elements and have credibility. What do I need to learnand be exposed to to be able to help an organization to have that conversation,and I think that's where really the Ani'mmantov Wax Corny for aminute, th, the alteraism and th the transparency with the Society of peoplesaying all right? What can we do to help each other? What can we do to helpthe organizations we serve? If we don't have a given background? If we don'thave, you know different things, just likeI'm a present club sales people, there are a lot of sales and able people thatcome out of sales operations or the ycome out of other areas of thebusiness, and so that's something where they look for credibility andunderstanding to supplement, and so I...

...think all of us are just Chad. Sometimes I use the analogy. Idon't know if you ever read this in elementary school, but it was it was. Iwas a short story called stone soup and the are you familiar with it. I am notnot whan, I've heard of, I don't think anyway, nowit's, okay, so it's kind ofa ESAC fable, but whatever it's I don't know where it originated, but basicallyit's like there's a village and they don't have very much food and you knowthey're not very, is kind of a poor collective there, and so the familyislike. Where do we Anev for dinner and the mother says we're GOINTA, havestone soup and they're like what are you talking about and they put a pot ofwater down. They put a giant rock in the pot and they say this is going tobe for the village, and so I guess is a larger pot colderno something, and soeverybody comes around and they're kind of looking like. What's this apout, soone person, pipes up and says: Hey I've got some carrots, I could add to thatand they come over and slice op SOM carots. I somebody else as oh. I've gotsome mutton, some lamb, you know lambmeat and they come over and theydrop that in, and somebody else has some seasonings and somebody else hassome other vegetables and somebody has muchrooms or whatever, and each personfrom the village adds just their little tiny bit that they have. Nobody hasenough, for you, know a full meal, but as they all contribute, they have athey have a meal. That's a stew! That's robust enough for all to feast fromthat everybody contributed to, and I think that's what we're doing in thesociety and that's what US e sales and meotpractitioners are doing, becausecompanies are hungry and they're thinking. Well, no sales and Abem isjust the carrots for no it's just the lambs aner, it's just a you know, andit's like no, it's all this stuff and it has to be stirred together the rightway and cooked at a certain temperature, and we've got companies that, with thebest of intentions, are trying to do sales enablement on the cheap or tryingto go in and execute the function with only a a partnal understanding of therole. And if I can continue with my food cooking metaphor here, it's likewe want a gourmet dish, but they want to take some cheap ingredients andthrow hem in the microwave for two minutes and eat and say this tasteslike garbage sales and able, but doesn't work and I's like well no holdon you got to do it right first and so, we'd be better off. We would be betteroff if people were saying what a salesenablement and some are the challenge. Chad and you might know this is peopleare saying- I don't need to know- I already know, and they don't well thatbecomes for the problem right. They think- and this is I mean this- is whyI go back to that. You know the kind of the question like H, n, when, if you'vebeen in sales for a while you've heard that terminology you've heard salesenablemen, it meant something different five six seven years ago, then it'smeant the last year and a half ence. Why the conversation and I'm curiouswhen you talk about you know you and Scott have talked about getting aseatat to table, or you mentioned someone who should bring a foldingchair organizations have struggled. I think I've seen sales professionals andsales group struggle to get a let's say, fair and even seat at the table. Theymay be given the folding chair just sales in general. How do you helpcompanies understand that it's just as important to have that sales enablementeffort have a fair, ind, consistent seat at the table and not just afolding chair. Now it's a fair point. I mean some ofit is change management and driving like there's a great book that Irepence and I've used coing into different organizations called the first ninety days and it'sjust a great it's pretty iconic in the business literature world of anybodycoming in new to any company in any role. So there's some stuff there thatI use, but honestly, mostly the first thing I'd say just like you don't wantto pick sales managers based on success in sales. You know when you hire sales people.Are you paying enough to track quality people firsalt WHO's, your sales enableme candidate. I was talking to somebody the other day and I didn'ten realizethis. They said you know that some of the organizons they've seen is a personwho wasn't successful in sales that they like them or feel like they're,sharp or whatever they'll say well. What gointo sales enablement so- and Ion' even say not to do that if they can learn to get where they need to getnecessarily. But if you're talking...

...about being a see at a seet at thetable, are you putting the right person in sales enablement or do you havesomebody in charge of that person? That's in sales enablement because youhave to have someone who's got the credibility to be at that table and ifyou have someone that maybe is partly there, what a? What can you set up toensure that they get the right exposure and background to be able to contributea meaningful way to those discussions? But I D even say initially: Let's saysomeone's got to get there, just letting him sit in these meetings andlisten and learn and see how decisions are made and see how the go to market strategies areconstructed and see how these departments are leazing andcontributing and trying to align at those highest levels and there's a lotof education just in that, even but prior to the contribution of salesenablement inserting themselves in those discussions. I think the firstpart is listening. You know seek first to understand and then to be understood.If I can steal you know, stepen cuvey's Ti habit and insert it there and so, but making sure that there's anunderstanding of how to contribute how to put it out there. I know one of ourchapters. I think it's Seattle, I think it's Seattle, but it might be, it might be. Atlanta is focused onthose CEA level. Conversations is focus on exactly that and how to have thoseconversations. My my deal chat from a strategy.Standpoint is going into an organization and proving value quickly.I can do our return. Al Investment turn around in as little as ninety days andwhen I can show hard numbers tied, distinctly and directly to what I doand isolate that from other factors that could also be part of where their uptakes thatreally helps and then asking this question. So, for example, I always say: If you want to bestrategic, don't don't do what your ask question, whatyou're told and so, for example, if tha sales leader comesto me and this his happened e says: Hey, we need. We need training on closingthe sale. Can you put something together the tactical non strategicpractitioner, but the best of intentions will say: Hey, I'm a good corporate citizen. This iswhat I'm paid to do. They say yes, the sales leaders happy and they go sourcecontent or repurpose content. They have a strategically yoall say absolutely. Ican do that if it's okay, I'd like to understand a little more about whatwhat your needs are and then, of course, the sales eyll say yeah, that's fineand you say ham curious. Why do you need? Why are you looking for trainingon closing the sale and they say well clearly we're not closing enough fieldsis. This is a challenge we've got to get the number going back to. You knowcracking the whip on the quotas. Maybe then you say: okay, that's fine! HeyI'm curious! Why aren't y we closing enough deals? What's your research showwhat what is your discussions and and meetings proven out to you and if theysay well, you know we're just we're losing out to the veryspecific competitors and they're beating us on price. You said: Well,why is that and they say well, you know our pricing is fair for what we offer.We have functionality that they don't, and so it's just been a struggle withour sales people to sell against those competitors, injustify the value fortotocosts of ownership for what we sell versus others, and then that's when Iwould in certand say: Okay! Well, Hey! If I hear you correctly, it sounds likeI think what you're saying is you need training and help on competitivedifferentiators amongst those competitiors o're losing to and alsotraining on, overcoming the price objection, ind selling value and thosethings will help close those deals versus training on closing the sale,and you know waste to kind of wrap up the deal when you're on the back end isthat is that right or a am I missing something so you're still humble, butyou are definitely guiding and directing, and they say oh yeah, nowthat's a good point and you start doing that and you start showing peoplevisibility, the things they haven't thought about or doing root, calseanalysis instead of hacking away at...

...symptoms. I think about like. Are wecutting off branches on a tree? Are we getting down to the root? You know whatI mean if we're trying to remove something, and you start doing that andinstead of people coming out of higher level meetings and telling you whatthey want you to do because of what they discussed, they start having yousit ing on those meetings and they see the value an that, so it can be organicdoing proof of concepts. If you will, where you take, if people are skepticalabout the Vale, you can add, or are you being inserting yourself with what they're doing at a mid seniorlevel take somebody I always can find at least a few people yousy come to mehey, I seether I. What you're doing would you mi working with more closelywith my team or my Verticlin, absolutely and start doing some deeperlevel things some more sophisticated things with a subgroup and organizationand they start seeing numbers and they start clammring about. You know the success of your effortsand how good you are at helping them and how credible you are Witho, whatyou're doing a contribute in that ripples out in an organization it helpsas well. So sometimes it's an organic strategy. If you're, not there theireways to get there, an think of Gim Burns out of our DC chapter she's, ourVirginan chapter president, in that area and Scyt as telling me the Gen ina period of I want to say six months, went from reporting to, I think, asalesperson, even I'm not sure how that worked as the sales and able practitioner allthe way up to reporting to her CFO and jumping three or four times in the foodchain of reporting structure, because she continued dad value, because whenshe was positede, something that she didn't know, she said, let me work onthat and would come back to people in the society ond her chapters Hay. Howdo I do this? How do I present this to the point where Scott told me her CFLone time said: What is this cult, your part of who is this Ip going to atcoming? Back with you know what I mean, and it's like that's exciting to us inthe society, because again it's about the balling, the function, it'sultimately what I awoals say this is about adding value to the companies. We support the FUSHINoverall of the sales end avlement andultimately to the sales, enablement, practitioners, their careers and theirpersonal development, and so it's just exciting. For me to be part of thisagain, I don't say it lightly. T really is a movement in the function to help peopleunderstand because there's date we have data. Now that shows, if you support asales saymynt function, if you give them that strategiagainsight input, ifyou fund the efforts and allow them to do what they do, what we do the average uptick is a ten percentdifference in performance than those that don't and sand. There's lots ofother stants that support you, K, ow the revenue. So it's really easy tomake that case. That's the other thing about being strategic as you're askingchat. How does somebody get a seat at the table? You don't have to come in soagain if you're, if you're, intimidated or if they want you to be antimitated,that you're going in with these senior leaders and Youre the sales anablepractitioner- and it's like you know not that they maybe would say this, butwhy would you need to be in these meetings with us at this level? And youjust come again and saying: Hey: Look! Here's the data right, I'm Switzerland!This is what the data shows. This is what I'm hired to do. The data showscompanies that have somebody at a strategic level that funded accordinglythat allows someone to be a someone to build bridges between thesiles of the different functions and the organization we get. This increasein revenue, this Increasei in win rate percentage, this increaseingperformance thisecrees. Do we want that? We want that right and then go wa. Ofcourse it's like okay! Well! This is why we should det besting classcompanies do T. wouldn't we want ted O ax. This is what acts would look like.Here's what you would do in your part of playin x, here's what you would do!Here's how I would help this is how we hold ourselves accountable. This is howwe measure do you feel good about that, and so it's not Goni replace of Ego oropinion. We've got facts. We've got data, I'm just here to execute and bethe ambassador of this methodology of this structure. In this framework,that's proven proven to bear out...

...results, and you know what it comes to ham and eggs,the chickens involved, but the pig is committed right. So if companies aregoing to futct Arat the companies that find that their challenge of sales, anablemen o seeing it strategic or seeing the value is a lot of times therethey're the chicken and they're saying yeah. Well, we pay for somebody to bein sales en ablement, but we tell them only to sales, training or yeah. Wehave sales enablement, but the compensation is IV seen this. A lot isso low, they're not willing to pay, and so they bring in people that you knowthey can get for what they're charging, what they're, paying and so they're,not getting somebody that is a quality person to to be able to provide thosedeliverales and that's been somewhat cannibalizing, because you know I wastalking to somebody in HR with a company and they said well externaldata. As HR companies look at compensation, theylook at what's the date in the market. What are people paying sales in Ablopractitions? So then that's what we put out to pay, but it's because so manycompanies don't get it because the function is still so fludgling. Thenit's creating this false positive, that's what you should pay, but toMarro Shanke, but ad, a great article a couple months ago about here's, whatsales an ablemen prectitioners should be making based on the scale, theorganization, the amount of their responsibilities and any you know, forexample, any business. That's a billion dollars an over should be paying on average, reminding me the minimumyeah. I think the minimum is a hundred fifty Touzand K base for a company ofthat size and or more, and so a lot of companies aren't doing that justbecause they have 't previously and so again, just like for seals, people werepaying the right. You know to get the right sal for pany o get the rightbandage nol. You gave what you pay for ACIN right, yeah and Esofording, thatHi continuung that movement, so okay, so Goang to be careful on time here. Sowe've talked a lot about the executive side of it. How you get the sea to thetable, what it says name on power it brings to it. If you had to give, ifyou had sales professionals that were coming into contact with salesenablement for the first time, what would you tell them so that they acthey themselves as those armies of one as ya? Reference actually get morevalue out of it in the trenches? Okay. So let me make sure inderstaneyour question. What would I tell sales people about the best way? FoYeah? So if you were talking to individual contributors and they'relike what the Hell is, Thi sales an eighboment function, and how do Iinteract with it? How should a how should a sales professional view andinteract with that sales enablement function in order to get the most value the most return fortheir own efforts out of it right, because in we'll just take the trainingpiecas an example there's always anytime, you do training any client.I've ever done, training with there's somebody in that room and honestly,when I first got trained, it was me, there's some dude in the back of theroom going why the hell am I inhere? This is a waste of my time, and so wetalk about willing student. You have to be a willing student. Take one steptowards me I'll take to towards you kind of thing, but if you had to helpsales, people understand here's what this funk. You know we just talkedabout kind of what the function is. How best should they view it and approachit and interact with it to get greater results? Noah, it's a fair point. It's funny.Tou say that, because yeah, that's one thing that I'velearned to become good at with you: Yeah you've got people in there whereit's like one. Why am I taking part in this training because I'm good at whatI do I mean not if fore dealing usually with new hires, you know, certainly, if theyre newhires than a entry level role, but but yeah, it's like you're, taking wayOu away from selling whyt. Do I need thos. I've been doing this for a longtime and by the way who the heck are you. He telling me how to do this. Idon't know you, you know, if that's the case, and so I learned very quickly. Ican take a group and within an hour have people turned around and buying in and saying okay, this isdifferent, so I think for sales people we can sayhey, be open, realize that this works or whatever. But honestly it's that's.I really put that on the sales...

...enablemen practitioner to make sure they set up theseinitiatives and guidance and whatever to make sure the sales people see it.It's up for us to drive it more so so they see the value in doing these things and again proving out bearing out thesethings are successful and I think at Jeffry Gittamer who was you know whatthe sales gewres said in one of the programs that I took withhim where he said: Hey is somebody twenty year sales person or they a oneyear, Salesperson Twenty Times. You know he used an extreme examplehe's like yeas somebody sit there and they, you know, get all cocky like yeah,but it sails twenty years he's like that they have problems being their carpavent last month. It's like you know, get a clue here, and I wouldn't be thatyou know you K Brash and I don't think he was saying he would be Brat thatbrash to the individual. But it's like again it's about. What are your results?Sometime me along you've been in your tenure in the role. What if yoursuccess has been? What is your current level of success and, quite frankly,the other piece is sharing with people. How Hey it's a whole lot easier to take.Somebody who's already doing well and getting them to do better. When I'm aFriond of a group, one of thethings, I say, is: Hey people pay thousands ofdollars for executive coaches. You know, I practice what I preach, I'm in coachand sales and leadership coach, and I pay coaches myself right because Ibelieve in what I do and take advantage of that framework as well. I saidpeople pay a lot of money for coaches. I say you're getting out for free. Isaid I'm getting paid the company's paying me to get you in front of me, soyou can make more money for your family and for your goals right Bik. If you'remaking two hundred hsand dollar a year, that's great they're, paying me to tryto get you to two, fifty or three hundred. Why would you fight that? Andso these aretests is one of the things I do to really change that paradigm andstart to get people looking at this moreas a value ad for them versus a you know, set of events or tasks thatthey e that they're being told they have to complete or take part in, and so you know and then also utilizingthem. If somebody has really tenured setting up the kind of training wherethey can contribute and share what they've done and and help their peersand practice, some things in front in front of others to show what good lookslike and that's a great way to get by into because they see that their success is recognized. Theirskill is recognized and we're kind of holding that up lotting that andhelping tjus try to scale that out, amongst others in the group, and thatmakes them usually feel good, as well as being kind of a thaught leaderwithin their peer group, excellent Paul. If the listeners interested in talkingmore about the topics we touched on today, learning more about what you cando for their organizations, what's the best way to get in contact with you, you can check out transformative, sale,Solutionscom, really the best way just go to Lenk in I've got eighty five plusrecommendations. I've got vidography of my work and speaking conferences and some of these different things thatpeople ant to vet me there as well, but just to reach out- and you know I can share with them how I'vedone this with organizations and I've got my latest initiative. I have salespeople doing over two hundred percent of quota with fit. You know putting some ofthese things in place that we've talked about today, so happy to help, or atleast have the conversation with anybody- who's interested excellent.Well, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to be on the show. It'sbeen great, yeah ll. Thank you so much for havingme Ca II, look forward to staying in touch and continue to work together inthe future, all right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please checkus out of B to B Revizeccom show the episode with friends, FamiliesCoworkers leave US review on itunes. Please we do pay attention to that, anduntil next time we havalue prime solutions with you all nothing, but thegreatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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