The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Mike Moore on Generating Revenue in a Digital Agency

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We’ve seen a lot of consolidation of digital agencies over the years, with many getting bought up by “the Big Four.”

Today, independent agencies struggle (at times) creating and maintaining a sustainable pipeline. So it’s worth asking: How do those that survive work to make their revenue more predictable?

In this episode Mike Moore, Partner and Chief Commercial Officer at WillowTree, covers the “real” social selling, some of his agency’s greatest hits, and why WillowTree isn’t aiming for intergalactic domination.

Are you concerned about hitting yourrevenue targets this month quarter or year? Your answer is value: primesolutions, a sales, training and marketing optimization companyleveraging the valueselling framework visit, www, dot value, primeSOLUTIONSCOM and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated helpin executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. You come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcomeeveryone to the be to b revenue executive experience thanks for joiningus on your host Chanc Sanderson. If you're not able to listen to the entirehepisode today, please feel Freedo in our website B to b Rep exactcom, youfind lenks to this interview as well as others. We've conducted an additionalcontent, all decided to help you be your targets. Todam excited his tingwith Mike more partner and chief commercial officer at Willow Tree todiscuss, generating revenue with the digital agency space and some of thechallenges that they faced and overcome. So just kind of was a jumping off point.Michaelwer. Thank you for your time and, let's just start with, have a littlebackground on what willow tre does and your roll there sure Chad, hi everybodyhappy to be here today. Willow tree is a digital and mobile product agency. Wespecialize in strategy design, development and deployment of kind ofany digital experience that you can really think of anything with a screenon it. Quite frankly, a big chunk of the work we do is around applicationsand native and web applications, but in this day and age we really do try andtalk in terms of the experiences and whether that's interactive TV ormultimotal kind of voice experiences. We try and help fortune five hundredcompanies, whether it be consumer or enterprise, oriented to create thesereally engaging experiences across all platforms, excellent xeand. So yourrole there, what suprimary function, yeah, I'm a partner in the firm and mykind of day job is chief commercial officer, which means I'm responsiblefor all of our client side, activity, business, development, trade marketingand basically engaging new and expanding existing client base. So,basically, all of all of the clientside activity kind of comes inthroughthrough our side, so many many hats, yeah and many hats. With regard to kindof the work, you do many hats, even within a single client being able to be their confidant their doctor. In somecases we always like to say we try and be doctors, not waiters with ourclients, so it really. It really does kind of comedown to every individual client having individual need. So many many many hats,excellent. He we've had conversations before and then for those in the Odantwo don't know I spent ten years in the same space that will choosin, but I'mcurious, we've seen a lot of consolidation over the years ofagencies. Kind of getting bought up by you know the big four whatnot and todayAndof those independent agencies. They struggle at times across the board,some ere better at it than others in terms of maintaining and creating. Youknow a Sutatabla pipe wine. I, and how do you guys approach that? And how doyou work to make sure it is a little bit more predictable? You know than itcan sometimes be in the professional services space yeah I mean I obviouslycan't speak to how the big four do these sorts of things. Indeed, how someof these acquisitions are gone. You obviously hear things in the market allthe time as far as willow tree goes, we really try and stay true to kind of rour core values, which is we put our clients. First, we suspend disbeliefwhen face with a challenge. We come at it with a really open mind and reallyjust try and get the most appropriate people from our organization around theproblem as soon as we r an opportunity...

...as quickly as we possibly can. I think,with regard to how we do it. I think one of the things we love about oursales philosophy is getting the business folks out of the way and thatfane that that meat may sound counter intuitive to folks, but but we've hadreal success. Having our business folks focused on framing opportunities,framing a problem, really, you know the number one thing I encourage all of ourbusiness development folks to do is to listen to digest, to understand andthen really the challengees. How do we extract the best thinking from all ofthe experts we have at Willatree and and effectively get out of the way? Ithink, particularly with new clients, they're looking to get to the solutionas quickly as they possibly can. I think the day and age of being kind ofinundated with keynote and powerpoint. I think those days are kind of gone. Ithink people expect to get to the rout faster and they'll judge you on yourmerits. Do you have the people to do deliver what they're? After do? We havethe vision to deliver what they're? After and from our perspective, we keepit lean and we get. We get the experts in front of the client as soon as wepossibly can and the business developers if theyh've done their jobhave framed digested the problem where the opportunity have briefed the teamat will atree effectively and manage to kind of assemble the team that's bestsuited to the task. It's always it's always my expese as a challenge or, ifyou be, if you can frame the business issue and then allow the experts right,the room kind of I don't want to say to find the envelope, because essentially,what you guys are doing is his innovation, essentially yeah and beingable to make sure that that connects back to the to a business issue thatcan be tracked and success can be quantified again. Yeah against there'salways been a challenge right: Yeah, listen, we'd, all love it. If, if youwere able to get a brief you're able to do an estimate and hey it's going totake six prints or six months or whatever it might be, and we have areally clear view of requirements and we've got some data about your end userthat we can employ. You know that's all kind of pie in the sky. Most of thetime there often times lots of gaps along the continuum, and you know it'sthe frustrating, but also kind of the the real it's the rubit. It's really,what kind of gets you going and the ability to be able to kind of fillthose gaps to be able to think creatively where there is no data isreally where kind of the magic happens. Obviousy Su Guyis Evelopmentteam, Ithink all Lin were about ten folks. We have four primary kind of category lead,so frontline business developers we've got three folks in more of a solution'sarchitect capacity. We've got some business analysts and we have kind ofan operations person that helps us with collateral sales, material andprocessing, some of kind of the the SW in contract work. So I'd say about tenpeople, okay, and when we were prefing for for today's interview, we weretalking about social souing and I should clarify for anyone listeningwe're not talking about Linkin and twitter, riut, the social sellings, abuzzword and everybody's going no cal onto that. That's not what we'retalking about what we're talking about is that actual human connection, and,like you said you were very proud of the way that your guys had been able todo that. Can you iluminate that a little bit for me listen, our businessis based is in based in Charlottesville, Virginia and also down in Dorham NorthCarolina, which has many many benefits from an operating perspective. The factthat we can attract and retain the best talent in the industry that we're notsusceptible to a lot of the pitfalls of maintaining a team in a traditional andI'm making little air quotes with my finger traditional tech hub, but italso lends I tu to a little bit to our personality. I wouldn't go as as far asto say that our commercial approaches folcsy, but a word we like to use is,is authentic and we believe we could have the best team in the world withthe greatest reference applications and reference clients in the world. But ifwe don't make a genuine connection with...

...our clients and we don't deepen thatrelationship over time, it's all kind of for nougt. So we, the people we hire,have a great combination of text, technical expertise, but but alsoexceptional people, skills and, and our job really is to make a connection andsolve a problem or create an opportunity, prove ourselves to clientsand then ultimately help them on a journey that, for the fasible future onat least on a digital track, will go on and on so social selling to US andselling. You know small s for selling it really is we've managed to makegreat connections at the highest levels with some of our clients, and you knowwe're talking about major retailers, global retailers. You know globalentertainment, businesses and you know we have the relationships at the sealevel. We help them out around the edges, wherever we can prepping forinternal meetings, helping them with conferences, submitting work for ontheir behalf for awards and, quite frankly, just spending good qualitytime with them, while we're on project or even inbetween projects, and what we like to do is be able to pinpoint a couple ofthese folks that we really are close with that were like minded that we seethe world the same way, not only kind of with regard to technology, but howyou do business and we ask them- are there other folks in your network thatfit the bill that that would be a good match for us that that have a genuinebusiness opportunity or challenge that you think we might be a fit for orquite frankly, that we would just get along with? And it's been reallysuccessful for us, and that's something of that that I encouraged our folks todo weekend and week out. Is that an approach to Revenu generation that was?Were you guys, hat worganically arrived at Hore? Did you try other approachesand find that were less affective, like I've seen agencies? Try and hire youknow, people that are more of that. You know assassin, price type, sales type,a personalities that woele really have to bring back th kind of roll them backoff of being sales, with a big ass kind of kind of P yeah. Did you guys trythat approach, or was this organic Howc, Youin, Handre Ribathis? I think it'sorganic. I don't think you can divorce the two things. I don't think you canbe a great relationship executive in our business and not have the technicalability and or the insight. So let me just give you a example. You knowpretty much. Everybody on the BITESS development team here at Willow treehas an engineering degree as somewhere in their education, and it may not allbe computer science. It may be industrial or mechanical, but thattechnical appreciation for how things work, whether it be digital or physical,is a big part of the equation. They happen to be really good, smart,engaging people on top of all of that. But our opinion is, you need to be bothof those things. You need to be tee. Someone that's great at developingrelationships and you have to be somebody. That's going do participatein the process, it's efficient, but it is authentic, it's more genuine and westrive for that. So for us, it's less about process and, to a certain degree,less about coaching and it's really about hiring and finding people thatkind of have all those aspects. Sois E, a secret sauce of that because of thedeath hirings a Chawn, especially when it comes to sales, especially if you'relooking for you know, engineering background people to I mean sales,often in the digialagency space it has bad competation right. We used to jokeat Santy about the magic bubble right, like the sales of people, don't messwith the the experts that are going to execute. Let them believe that themoney falls off the trees. So, from a hiring standpoint, do you guys have doIMPLEMENTEC processes or ohow? Do you? How do you go about making sure you're,making the best and most important hiring decis? It is a challenge thereis. There is no easier way to put it. That being said, it's worth theinvestment. It's worth. It's kind of worth the pain, it's worth the waitwhen you, when you do get the the exact profile that you're after I'm thinkingof one of the hires we made about a...

...year ago. We had one of our very seniorbusiness developers, joine us from twitter, and we waited about a year. Weinterviewed probably a hundred candidates, and we do have a sayinghere at willow tre and it's not meant to be cute. It's actually how we thinkof the world and that when we see candidates- and we have a doubt- we saywe say- if there's doubt- There's no doubt and quite frankly, we weren'tgoing to compromise. We believe that these business development roles areoften the very first connection that clients have in most times they are,unless they see some of our developers or principal engineers or some of theother senior executives at conferences. Our business development executives areoften the first connection they have to willow tren. You know- and I know whenevery sells professional that that's worth Te Gran assault knows that youonly get one opportunity to make a first impression. So we don't take anychances at all on the hiring front in that regarden, and while it is a longslog, sometimes we feel great about the hihers may make. Do you feel likeyou've had greater success like with a hiring missio? I think I somebody toldme once tat the best hiring managers- bat five hundred you can he yo guysfeel like your process and your patience, which is often a challengeright, an then patience becomes could be. It could be a hurdle foragencies that are like, and companies are yeah any peny people on the street.Now I mean Yeahn and that kind of stuff is that has that resulted in what youwould consider a better than average hiring average? I were certainly betterthan five hundred. That being said, you know we're not the largest organizationin the world and while there is urgency in our business to to find more seniorsales and business development executives, it's not at kind of theexpenseive quality. So I feel like the patient's aspect of it has allowed usto do better than five hundred were probably a eight hundred and eight.Fifty I would, I would have thought wo. Atnicbut we've created enough space todo that, so we've allowed our enough running room and our senior executiveshave been patient and that's really paid off for us when you find thesecandidates and you bring them on to you- have a standard kind of onboardedprocess to and to get them used to the willow tree culture and the. Why youknow Sion saying why of Willow Tree Yeah. I think we have an onboardingprocess generally across the business. Quite frankly, I don't, I don't believe,there's a ton of Specialized Business Development on boarding that I wouldcredit with the success we've had. I think there's some of it. That's beengreat, but, but, generally speaking, you know the Headurhr here, ChristiPhillips at Willow Tree along with people like grey carrier, R, Coo andTobsrceo, and Blake Sirak who's, our chief xperience officer, we've all kindof helped codify our core values and our core values or things we live byand we hire by here at willow tree and the great news about it is it'ssomething that the entire business is kind of put together came from our team.We helped kind of solidify it into ways we look at the world and the way welook at talent. So I think, generally speaking, whether you're a first yearweb developer out of college or a seven year, IOS developer or a recentlyminted Mba who's joining us as a business development executive. Thatcore of values, approach to things is really the best onboarding vehicle Yehave, I think, tactically from bisdev standpoint. We do really well with howwe train for meeting protocol and and focus on kind of listening skills. Ithink we've got some of the best assets. Are Our libraries ar proposal kind oflibraries and assets ar second to none, but that's much more tactical. I wouldcredit kind of a willow, treewide, core values, approach to on boarding to bekind of the main driver in our success, coupled with really sharp tacticalbusiness development, training, Crim, and so when you have people of diversebackgrounds that are, you know, completemaking up Your Business O team?How do you because it's such a...

...relationship base sales? How are youguys, tracking or quantifying valuating pipeline opportunities and what yourprocess for you know for looking at Wath in the Pipeblod? In my clothes youknow in the next thirtynd sixty ninety gays versus want' a longer termopportunity. Have you guys come up with an approach that you feel, as you know,resones with the business? I think we have. I think, like any other servicesbusiness, that a challenge. If we were selling boxed software, we were sellingequipment or hardware. It's a much more traditional approach to tracking you.You know this better than anybody, so I would say our proach. Our approaches iss good, as it can be. I think right now we're constantly trying to evolve it,but it's combination of tool sets but but really a deliberate and realisticeye on the pipeline. We don't build pipeline for the sake of pipeline, so,for example, so, let's start with the tool. So you know we use sales force.We probably use sales force at probably sixty percent of its capacity, butwe're probably not alone in that regard, and we have a pipeline. I think themost important thing that we do as a business and this kind of goes back toour core values. is we really try and keep each other with honest as to howreal an opportunity is a and how real we should be in the approach, becausewe're not of the biggest organization and because we do want to kind of focusour efforts, you know we're not kind of a carpet bomb organization were morelike kind of sniper right. We take our shots very deliberately. We were verycalculated about them because we do, as I said earlier in the in the show, wedo bring kind of our talent to Barand. We want to make sure that we're doingthat with the greatest possible chance of success rather than having apipeline full of twenty five percent probability. So nothing gets in ourpipeline unless it's a FI, fifty and, quite frankly, our fs, probably morelike a sixty five percenter. So that kind of comes from me, but everybodykeeps themselves on it says to what's real. What's not- and I think week toweek that honesty helps with priority and whether somebody's got twoopportunities or ten opportunities, kind of boiling or abubbling it at atone time. We all have confidence that they're all very real. So for US it's!You know. This makes sound counter intoi to lots of sales professionals,but it's not a numbers game for us, it's a quality game for us and I don'tthink that there's any magic tool set that can help you do that. I think it'sreally about a sales philosophy and a sales culture, coupled with some toolsto allow you to do that effectively. You talk about self culture. Is thatsomething that you've seen that so I've seen in organizations like a mentionewhere sales is a bad word right, and so there is a challenge incorporating thatinto the culture. Sometimes, is that something you guys have been able toovercome, wet where the organization as a whole understands that revenuegeneration is necessary to continue to operate and continue to do really coolstuff? How have you have you kind of integrated that across the word? I knowexactly what you're saying and I've been part of organizations in the pastwhere there's aand, let's be, let's be honest, there's there's always going tobe friction between operations and the commer, the commercial side of thebusiness. That's, that is a natural that is a natural tension that existsin any business. I can say without without any doubt at all that thattension is alive, it will a treat, but it is a very healthy, very constructivetension, and I don't think I can put my finger on a single thing that we'vedone to kind of foster that, but it's obviously multifactorial. I think one.I think the fact that the people that are on the business develpment side atwillowtre are also engineers in their own right gives them some street credwithin the organization. I think the fact that the business developersunderstand that we're services business and they understand really and trulythat that th, where we write in the...

...products we build take time and effortand sweat and tears, we don't take any of that for granted. So we are not thatorganization that grabs a brief has a half baked view of what's going on,throws it over the fence for the operation to get into t and solution it.That is not how we do it. We are, as consultative with our internalstateholders as we are with our clients and that's throughout the process, andI think one of the big drivers in our success has been the fact that theoperation feels invested and when we do have a big lead, it feels like we bringthem in early. We treat them as equal members of the team because theyabsolutely are- and I think you know what it's like when you when you're onand you're tracking against opportunity and you win for us, it's a real teamwin and I think that that's a function of many things in the culture, not notone single thing, so more of a team based sale approach, Teyou guys. Iwouldn't assume that it's institutionalized Le Say, but it soundsvery account based sales right like the right people talking to the right areasand the organization at the right time, coordinated through maybe some salesforce, but more of that genuine authenticity, yeah and that that existspresale and that exists post right. We do not have a dedicated accountmanagement layer at willow tree. We have something called the triforce is,which is an idea we kind of stole from the video gaming video game world. Once we have a clientthat's in and we're deep into project work. We have kind of a by weeklymeeting of the mines and the triforce is the principal engineer who isresponsible for here. She is responsible for the technicalexcellence of the project, the project manager, who is a project manager,nonaccount manager, and they are professionals they are. They aretrained to deliver the best experience on time and on budget and the businessdevelopment exact. who leads the relationship and that meeting of theminds every other week to it could be a thirty second meeting like hey,everything's, green and we're good to go thanks for coming to hey. We have apretty complex or nuanced problem on the client side. That's part technicalpart, commercial part, political, quite frankly, and- and you really don't getto result, resolving those problems from with a single perspective, youreally need all of those angles represented so for us, that's that kindof triforce concept has been brilliant, actually oor. I want to go back to thetool snack for a second, you mentioned sales force, and I know if you'R, ifyou're doing, I think you referre to it. As the Cherry require puch relationshipbuilding. Do you guys have a toll set were an approach from the marketingside that still may be trying to generate new opportunities thatleverages the data that you're putting into te Cel FORC. So basically, whatI'm trying to get as what is your marketing stack? Look like an how welldoes it integrate with you know what you're doing on the saleside yeah ourtrade marketing team are great. I think for us, it's less to do with the tool,sets more to do with the strategy, and I think we're probably at the earlydays of being able to leverage the account data. We have more effectivelyto be very honest with you. We've been very much a marketing led commercialbusiness rather than a sales and again I' make an air quote around sales ledthe majority of the time that our folks spend on the marketing side is largely aroundthought, leadership and kind of creating a voice t at conferences,viathe website, Vir partners like forester, so we've got great guys likeScott Wolfson, who leads kind of our analyst Relations Group within ourtrade marketing function, and we really work it. Rightwe were mentioned in kindof the top five ind, the forester wave as a strong performer last year, andthat wasn't just kind of a one time: Hey it's nice to hang that badge on thewebsite. I mean we activate that we are constantly engaging with analysts toget new ideas. We are Google, an apple...

Microsoft, Samerin, an SAP, certifiepartners. We work those channels and- and that is to learn, what's going onto find out the trends in those markets, but also to push you know ouraccomplishments and and our thinking into those organizations. So I think Ithink we probably have a ways to go on kind of employing a stack and astrategy on an account basis, but I think we do leverage our data well whenit comes to channel and partner marketing. Everything that we've talkedabout sounds very organic, Purposebul, right and authentic. This are verypowerful words, especially in the space of Getrom is the objective for willowtree. You know total market domination, or is it more aganic growth e, O kindof? What's the what the future look like, what are we? What are we aimingtowards Gosh? It's hard to articulate it, but I think it's very much likelines you hear and films like Buldorum. We kind of take him one at a time right.One client at a time we're trying to do our best and the best thing that we cando is serve an individual client and I'll give you a kind of an anecdotethere I mean we have clients like Johnson and Johnson and Ge these, wereyou know, big global companies that took a chance on willow tru. When wewere thirty or forty people, you know seven or eight years ago. Each one ofthem are clients today and we've been not only do we continue to be clientson the work we started with them way back when, but they've been good enoughto refer us around to other parts of the organization. So I think that thatview of one client at a time, one project at a time and being deliberate,really does pay dividend. So I'd say no to interglactic domination. I say I'dsay yes to serving our clients well enough, that they that we continue togrow and- and hopefully word of mouth and referrals from those clients. Tthat have been served well continue to increase our client roster. Those aresome impressive customer names in anybody. I recommend anybody. WHO'sinus, please check out the willow tree website done. Some amazing work, I'mkind of curious from your perspective like what, if you had one coolestproject that you could actually tell us about in public. What would that be andwhy wow a little requestion? I know yeahthere've been lots, one that I just I think is one of my favorites is RegalCinema Regal Entertainment Group is a big client of ours and we've been working with them for acouple years now and what's been great about the relationship what's beengreat about, the software has been, they haven't been afraid and we haven'tbeen a afraid to really go after big ticket. No punintended experiences right. Our first bit ofwork with Regal was kind of reimagining. The loyalty view they. You know theyhave millions and millions of people in their loyalty program. They reallywanted that to be a mobile first experience. We've done some really coolthings around location based services, we've kind of demystified what it meansto earn points, redeem points and that's been received really really wellby the Regal Crown Club Faithful. We took that momentant when Wen rigtininto coming up with a native ticketing solution for them to really makeordering tickets online selecting seats viamobile a much more seenless, muchmore friendly experience that sort of stuff. Just the momentum just keepsrolling over I'd, encourage people to download either on Android or IOS thelegal senamy APPS, and we think it's a it's a great companion experience to areally fun experience of going to the cinema. I wasn't aware until I wasdoing my you know prework for this interview- that that was something thatyou guys had done, but when we went my wife and I went on Sunday to see alienand and we were using the APP and I'm sitting there telling her I'm like hey.I know the guys that did this. After about ten minutes of me going on and onabout it, I got the Hey: The weirste movie stop playing with the Tech Yeah. It is a really cool experience,ecause a really go stup with tha yeah and we're very lucky. You know luckyand grateful. We've got clients like...

...regals that are committed to mobile anddigital as being a core part of their strategy. Theyare, they view theirspaces as mobile meets mortar and whether it's the staff in the in thetheater or indeed any digital asset. They have, they have to be userfriendly. They have to add value and they've got a great vision for theirbusiness and we're happy and lucky to be their partner. So, in terms of youmentioned a couple of y kind of keefers er mobile first and an experientialpart of it, I mean, having you know, we've seen both of us have seen come ofthat industrte change from like o crap. I need a mobile HAP to that realexperience. You know that total merging of physical digital. How do you enhancean experience? Af Physical experience with the digital, and then you know thenew new stuff with Iot and AI, Dr Andaa, and all that stuff, I'm kind of curus.Where you see Aye, you can't tell us which your custemrs are on the bleedingenge, but I'm kind of curious how, where you see the trends going andwhere you are most excited to see it go and how you're working with your salesteam to make sure they're prepared for that yeah I'll, be slightly cheeky withthe answer as to as to clients, I would have folks check out the website.wwwwillow tree APSCOM, theire great case studies on there out I'll leavethat part of it there. I think I think the view of the world and the clientsthat are getting it right kind of understand the fact that, as the techgets more complex, the goal of the tech should be getting simpler and not morecomplex right. I think at the end of the day, what are you solving for? Are youseling for better workflow for your employees or your teams? Are yousolving for better conversion, more seamless shopping for your en consumer,and we like to ask very simple questions. You know: How would webetter dot that dot howwld we better allow customers to shop and Book HotelRooms? How would we better allow fieldtechnicians to be more efficient in their day? Howwould we be better able to allow inventory, manaters managers to be ableto survey their patch and understand where they are in life on a day todaybasis? So I think that's the key. I think thedays of everybody just hand wavely saying we need apps are over and andquite frankly, we find ourselves sometimes talking clients out of APPsor websites and steering them to existing assets they already have. Butfor US those simple questions: If you can answer those simple questions, thetech can get you there, but having the answers of those simple questions ofwhat are you trying to achieve? What needs are you satisfying? Who are youtrying to serve and to what end? If you can answer those questions, you knowthe tackill help you get there and a partner well Ip. You get there, but itreally juest have to start with asking and answering the right question. Haveyou found that the so when we started it was all about Mo Lah right H, theeducation component of the sales cycle was fairly significant, just because peopleweren't as familiar with really what design why design is important andmaking things easy is simple, necessarily right, and then you kind ofmove through this, and you see the education portion of a sale cyclechange to all right. Well, Hey, I saw a commercial by apple or I saw ive talkedabout. You know why they use what aluminum they use. So I kind of getwhat Desig meen. So now your education, switchis right you got to go from. Whyis important to okay? You really don't understand it as well as you do and goas well as you should and what it means to your business that education portionof it as I've seen it always be a challenge. I would think correctly fonwrong, but having people on that have that engineering background that canalso understand the larger business focus. Speaka common language becomespretty critical not only to the successfol Willowti for the successiveorganization, Yo, work, yeah and and...

...that, having that technical, technicalbackground and being kind of a stute as to what clients are trying to get toand what they're trying to achieve you know at the end of the day, for us ameasure of Successis, have you had a fruitful conversation? Have you even ifa you know we invest hours and days in in some cases weeks in an opportunity,and they don't all go our way, but but I think when we look back on all ofthem, have we brought some new thinking to bear? Have we understood and given apotential client SOM benefit based on our experience and have we helped onthere thinking we'd, happily, chalk, that up to alittle bit of a bit of Frea Consulting, and none of us feel really bad aboutthat? I think at the end of the day, you know back to one of the questionsyou avked earlier, particularly around pipeline development, an the like backto that honest view of where you are as a sales organization. As a BusinessDevelopment Organization is how many connections have you made, how manyreal genuine connections have you made, whether there's an RFP or a brief, orto ask you know that isn't real is as much about the opportunity beingavailable in a budget available as it is. Did you make a connection, and Ithink to the point you're making about engaging in these conversations? Ifyou've made a connection, that's a win. It may not result in Business Day one,but I can't tell you how many times we'll get a call out of the blue. Ayear later after a conversation saying hey, we always really felt like weconnected with you guys. We didn't have anything going at the time or forwhatever reason we we didn't go with you we're back now. So I think that thetype of conversations youere talking about before very approaching them inthe right way results in in a connection and a success, no matterwhat the near term brings yeah, I mean people buy for people at the end of theday. He have to be able to trust me because, with some of these projects,we're talking about budgets that that you know somebody that becomes thesponsor for working with will tre or any agency that could be a careerlimiting. You know, move if it goes south right. I've seen people losetheir jobs because they've been on the wrong forse, so to speak right. So theend of the day, if you can get that authentic connection understand thatpeople by fom people be respectful right in the interactions. I think thatwas a long way for building the trust that that's critical for the success,especially in professional services. For sure we agree. So when you look atyour roganization right now, what's the biggest challenge you guys are kind offacing and wrestling with today I think we've covered a little bit at already.I think you know demand continues to be robust, so coverages is key. You knowwe are and we continue to look for business development executives thatfit the bill. That kind of are a good fit for our culture, so scaling the scaling. The commercialside of the businesss is key, and I think you know back to your Jerrymacguire reference earlier. I won't Wax lyrically on this misne manifesto, butwhat I will say is the trend. We're seeing in our business is deeper. It'sdeeper relationships, it's more time, spent on a product on an account on acompany, and that creates a need for more time spent on the commercial sideon a climent by client basis. We love it. So I think one of the challengesfor us is staffing, and you know as any other business, it's staying on top oftrends, and can you get out of ahead of the next thing? I think there are manythings that are out there in front of us, whether it be machine learning ormultimotal interfaces. I think, for a business like hours. We have to be wayout there and kind of leaning to the next thing, and I think if we've got ththe business folks that can engage- and we have this kind of natural makerculture within the business, then we're in pretty good position for what'sahead of us. It's a very is a very cool space for anybody who wants to be onthe bleeding edge. You know you spent...

...ten years there and then you, like I've,done you kind of step back and work in another area, and you can wow you guys.These are still using this stuff, like yeah, there's so much better stuff outthere axcellyal right. So one last question that I ask all of our guests:We call it our acceleration insight. So if you had one piece of advice ordirection, you could give to an individual in sales, consulant eremarketing that you believe would make them more successful a d and help themhit their hid or beat their targets. What would that be and why I think it'sa great question I, and there are probably ten ways to answer it, butI'll pick one. I mentioned before about being honest about what you're doingbeing honest about your pipeline. Being honest about your approach being honestwith where you think you are in the cycle and quite frankly, I think that,coupled with the question I kind of mentioned just a couple minutes ago of,did you make a connection, and I think if you can coach your teams- or you cancoach yourself to measure where you are in your sales life cycle pipelinequarter week and measure on real connections, and I think and how realthat is. I think, if you measure yourself in that regard, I thinktyou're going to be more effective with things that challenge sales. People inany industry you'll manage your time better. You'll use your resources,better you'll be less stressed because you won't be worried about hey. I'vegot a hundred things in the hoper. How am I going to manage all on them when,if you're, really honest with yourself and you've made connections, you maynlyhave seven or reight, it does simplify your life. So my view of the world iswhether you're, an individual performer or indeed, a sales manager. That'slooking after potentially hundreds or even thousands of sales executives thatcurrency of how many connections did you make in being honest about it,honest about it in in your day to day communication, honest about it in yourreporting, I think that makes life for a salesperson much much simpler,because being a sales executive or a business developer is a complex way oflife and if you can find ways to simplify it and give you opportunitiesto better spend your time, there's got to be some upsin in that the symple isalways better and just like with the Digital Space Siples, not always easyyeah, it takes some Folki. I ull it. U Agree more! Absolutely so I peopleinterested in Connectiong with you talking more about some of the thingswe've covered or we're learning more about will try what's the best way forthem to go about that yeah. They check out the website, I'm on Linkdin. That'sprobably the best way to make a initial connection with me all right, excellentixcellent! Well, for those that have enjoyed this podcast, please take amoment post review and it share with your friends. Families Coworkers spreadthe magic we're doing this to try and make people more effective. Give youguys some insights and access to em new executives that will provide you guyswith information it gain to make you more successful in your careers. We'vegot a lot of other interviews on the website B to B Revizaccom, so don'thesitate to check that out as well Mike. I can't think you enough for the timetoday. This has been great. Is there any last parting words or any questionsyou have for me? No, it's hat happy to do it, keep in touch and, and hopefullywe'll connect again soup, all right acllon. I wish you nothing about thebest Ting. You will talk to you soon. You've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening TIL NEXT TIME.

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