The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Matt Lockhart on Business Transformation: Pitfalls, Benefits, and the Cutting Edge

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Change is inevitable. Whether you’re working for a small business, or a company of forty thousand people, at some point you’re going to go through some sort of major organizational change.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Executive Experience, we were fortunate enough to sit down with Matt Lockhart, Executive Vice President at Magenic and chat about business transformation. It’s pitfalls, it’s benefits, and why it’s so important for companies to stay on the cutting edge.

You can find a breakdown of this episode here.

Today on the BDB revenue executive experience, we're speaking with Matt Lockhart from Magenic about business transformation, the pitfalls, benefits and why it's so important for companies to stay on the cutting edge. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two one. Welcome everyone. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson, and today we're going to be tackling the topic of business transformation. It's one that shows up a lot in the press. We're hearing a lot of people talk about it. Many of us probably know organizations that are undergoing or tackling these types of transformative initiatives, and it's not necessarily an easy thing to accomplish, especially when really just stay competitive. Today, you have to instill that acceptance of change and transformation into the DNA of the company. We're lucky enough to have with US Matt Lockhart, and executive from Magenic, who's going to talk to us about how he's been enabling companies and MAGENIC has been enabling companies to do transformation in an successful way. We spend some time talking about, you know, what really is transformation, why the market and the industry has changed a bit and the need for it to be part of the DNA is so critical. So, without further ADO, we're going to jump right into the interview with Matt. Matt, thanks for taking the time and welcome to the show. Hey, it's great to be here, Chap. So we have a standard question we ask every guest at the beginning of the show to talk about get to know you a little bit better and talk about kind of a defining moment in your life or career that either, yeah, change the trajectory of where you were headed or gave you a lesson you learn from. We'd love to have you share that with the guests. We get a better sense of who you are and where you came from and where you're headed. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. It's it's it's a little bit of a tough one because there's been a few. But and and we'll focus on the defining a defining moment in career on the life side. I've got for daughter. So you can imagine. You can imagine what what what defines that, you know, on the career site. So I've been with this firm for, you know, over two decades right and and, as you can imagine, I've seen quite a bit of change and one of the things that was, you know, really distinct is is we had this sort of did very distributed regional model where it was almost as low we had sort of kind of franchise organizations out and about around the country and as a really a need to change to adapt to what our customers were looking for. You know, we really needed to get people working together and much more of a common and centralized model, and that included the development of some services that are our regional branches needed to...

...take hold of. And so, you know, changing where everybody was, you know, kind of was able to do a little bit of their own thing too. Much more of a common, structured and value driven model was was was kind of one of those defining moments. Excellent so far. lesteners could give them a little bit of background. O Magenic, and your roll there. Sure. So we are a professional services firm that is focused on, you know, driving really disruptive and transformational technology solutions. You know, so you can think of all of the new customer experiences that are being driven out of mobile platforms and or common mobile the web platforms, and those are the things that we help our customers envision and and think about and dream about and then, you know, bring to reality. And your role in the organization? Yeah, so I you know, I again, I've been with the firm since we are all of you know, about eight people, and we've got around a thousand people now. And you know, my role is always been involved in in the growth of the business, either in, you know, growing markets and or growing capabilities. Currently my role is the vice president of strategy and Business Development. Excellent, excellent. Today we wanted to focus on transformation, creating a transformation of culture, how it happens and and really what the business results can be. It's a big topic these days, right. There's no lack of approaches to it, but I'd love to get your kind of definition and context of it for our listeners before we dive deeper. Yeah, you know, there I'm sure all of all of us have been reading and seeing and in the press and or the trade, trade, rags that, you know, everything is all about transformation, as though this is a as though this is a new subject, and it's not. Changes Perpetual. You know, I think that what we have seen more recently in the last well, shoot, probably the last decade, is the pace of change and the pace of transformation is really going faster than ever right and it is driven by our our digital culture and, you know, by customers demand of advancement and in the services and and how we all interact. You know, there's an immediacy of things and and you know, if you don't have the sort of the the next greatest experience, or at least shoot an experience of this that is on par with somebody else, it's so easy to change to you know, for customers to Change Age, who they're working with, and so that is really driven this need to for organizations to understand that.

Boy, you can't, you know, sort of set it and forget it anymore. You're constantly evolving and those those organizations that are, you know, improving at that and improving their capabilities around transforming are those organizations that are winning today. Well, and you said it, you know, it seems like everybody talks about like it's something new, but it's definitely mean something that's been going on forever. I'm curious, though. Have you noticed that it seems like things like customers want to move faster than they did before? And is that, if I like I'm getting older? I won't say it, of your guests, a something I'm getting all that we've been doing this a while. I'm noticing that perhaps my perception of time is different and it just feels like customers want to move so fast that they're not paying attention to the basics. Is that something you're seeing as well? Well? I think so. I you know. I think that you know. One of the other perspectives is that, you know, change and transformation in the past was more of an inside out right mentality. It's like somebody you know from the inside recognized and now it's much more of an outside in where customers are demanding that that transformation and they're demanding it now, and so that is that is putting a different kind of time pressure on things now. If it's reactionary, you know, that's where those you know decisions that you know sometimes are questionable and or you know they need to go back in and and and rethink them occur. If, if change is accepted and transformation is accepted as a as a this sort of ongoing paradigm, you know, then I think it can be managed in those decisions are, you know, are better met to to the customer demand as well as the as the Abit, the organization's ability to to succeed. And as we were preparing for the show and talking about the transformation and where it starts, you know, you mentioned really needing to understand the motivation to change as kind of the starting point. In your experience, what are some of the largest motivators you're seeing today for organizations to change it, and are they aware of of their own motivations to change? wories? It more reactionary than anything else? HMM. Well, I personally see both. Right, there's both positive as well as kind of negative incentives. There's the fear, wow, I'm really in trouble and I'm losing market share or I'm losing customers or etc. Etc. Or you know, sometimes what we see is, in in some senses, kind of that irrational fear where they're going. Well, you know, look at what happened to blockbuster. They got disrupted and we could get disrupted to like that. Yet they yet, they really...

...haven't gone out to the market and to their customers to understand what they want right. And then there's the sort of more positive things where those firms that have gotten closer to their customers, they are better understanding the experience, they're they're accepting the fact that, you know, there's limitations that exist currently, but there's a you know, there's a road maps and opportunities to to transform and really take hold of the values that they've built up, the foundational capabilities and values that they have and and have a nice, you know, long run and and and we've seen. Both of us have seen those transformation initiatives, you know, fail. A lot of them struggle to break down those silos or get closer to the customer. I'm curious in the work that you guys have done, have you seen any early key indicators for those types of initiatives that might indicate larger chance of long term success? Yeah, it's interesting in a chat, I'm sure you've seen, we all see the kind of trade ray exam or they the analyst and and you know Gartner had this term the bimodal organization right and yet yet. You know, truly there is a need for vision and and obviously funding and etcetera, it's Etera, which are really, you know, kind of top level executive responsibilities. But what I've seen is that until you see the movement in that sort of grasp roots movement, some would say it's the volunteers that really drive change, because everybody's, you know, got their day job and or and or everybody's comfortable doing the things that they're doing today and or they they see what they how they are, you know, what their firms of values are, it's being just fine. But until people sort of get out on you know, get out on their skis a little bit and and get comfortable with trying things that are new. And what we've seen is is that's really happens at that cruise grass roots level. And so when you see people starting to kind of look around the corner and going hey, what's going on there and I've got some thoughts and have you guys thought of doing this, and that really happens at that grassroots level and when you see those things happening, that is you know, that's a real positive indication that you're that you're down the track it was, and so organizations have to be able to get the entire entity over time to do embrace change right, to be willing to do it. Everybody scared to death of it. So I'm curious at an organizational level, have you seen things that companies are doing that are effective at helping the organization as a whole embrace change, or is it really that dichotomy of we've got the funding in the vision and now we just need some volunteers to kind of get the momentum going?...

Well? I think that there needs to be a recognition that it's that, you know, it's hard, right, that that there is failure. You know that common term of, you know, fail fast, but it there is some level of truth to it where you got to recognize that enabling this sort of organic transformation means that you're not quite exactly sure the path that you're going to be on. I mean it's going to there's going to be some bumps and there's going to be some wines and and and being okay with that and and you know, I think that there are another piece is is you're you know, the investment, and there's clearly investment in in dollars that enable it, but there needs to be an investment in time, you know, in time equals money as well, where you're giving people the opportunity and you're giving them some space to try things out. Now, you know, I had the opportunity to chat with an individual who was responsible for transformation at a organization, you know, as I mentioned, worth a thousand people and you know, I find it hard enough within our Organi but he's, you know, he's driving change across an organization that is literally hundreds of thousands of people. And you know, that blew my mind and I'm like, what in the world, how? How? It isn't? How don't you, you know, roll up into a ball and start crying? What do you think about that? And he said, look, it happens, you know, one piece at a time. So you take one team and then the next team and the next team and the next team, and so I think that you've got to break things up right and and some parts of the organization aren't going to be ready and some functions really don't need a level of change, but others, you know, others do. And and if that means creating, you know, transformation groups or innovation groups to sort of light the fire then, you know, that'd be one thing and or you just, you know, give more. You know some some groups and teams more freedom than others. And we were talking about, you know, constant intellectual curiosity, and curiosity's extremely powerful. I don't know if there was a report that came out of study that showed curiosity's the biggest thing that the human brain has to resolve and it's why you get I don't know which guys call a Minnesota, but look, you lose on the highway, so there's a nasty accident on the other side of the road. You know, you have the potential to see some really horrible things, but your brain can't help but force you to look. And now, on an individual level, we tap into that in sales. But at an organizational level, how do you how do you instill that curiosity? Is it literally one team at a time? And then you instill it, how do you maintain it? Have you seen ways that organizations or people are being effective at that? Yeah, boy, I you know, I think that if you could, if you could bought all that, dad, really beyond to something, because I think that's challenging right is is you know, individually, we all have a different sort of level of...

...individual intellectual curiosity. But, you know, I think that's a leadership thing really. I mean, you know, if leaders demonstrate that intellectual curiosity and and and they're there then celebrating it and you sort of see that propagated. Yeah, I mean, you know, as we were preparing our eyes, excuse me, as I was preparing for in our chat today, I just came across this, you know, something from Mackenzie. There's there is no lack of an opportunity to learn. But you know, really propagating that, that mentality of Hey, look, you know, I want you to be smarter than me. As a matter of fact, you are smarter than me right. So don't look to me, you tell me, really know. And because those those people that are closest, you know, closer to customers and and sort of see those opportunities to increase value or do something better that is going to create a better experience, those are your those are your opportunities for innovation and you know, learning from them is is is really some magic and it's one of those things that I've I've always struggle with when we work with clients or, you know, teach sales, sales teams, that concept of that continual self improvement right. That I don't I don't typically call it curiosity and class, but that's what we're talking about. Like you need to constantly be the learning in order to be able to engage with your buyers in the right way, to bring value to the conversation. That takes time, it takes it takes an awareness and a willingness to do it and I just see so many sales reps that don't do it. They fall back to, Hey, this is a service we provider, these are the features of functions. It's like take you loo take some time understand how the entire landscape is going. Keep Educating Yourself, and I just I don't know how you instill that in the in the sales seem I think the leadership angles a great one. Maybe I should have sord a more time with the sales leadership. Then then I have been but when we look at transformation, we've been looking at the organizational level. Let's look at just sales and marketing for a second. Sure, absolutely, the buyer landscapes changed. You know this. We've talked about this before, right. It's just gotten. It's got a little more demanding, especially in B Tob, because they're bringing their B Toc expert expectations to the B to be buying process right and they demand value. They want to be collaborated with. And so what, when it comes to just sales transformation or marketing transformation, are the hurdles for that specific type of organization different from your perspective than, say, the global organizational hurdles? And if they're, if they are different, you know why do you think that is? Yeah, I think that it is probably more challenging because you know you're dealing you you're really needing to align a greater group of stakeholders, and if it's in the context of transformation and change right and and working differently and or meeting customers differently, then you've got a bigger group of stakeholders who really have their...

...ideas in mind and you're needing to meet those stakeholders with your own organizations. You know stakeholders, and so there's just a greater degree of adaptability. You know that that is needed and I think that going back to, you know, sort of that last subject that we were talking about and you go, well, how do you meet that? Well, you got to know your customers better than ever. Right, and you got and that takes that again. That's that uptick in curiosity, right, that that can give you know, an individual salesperson the leg up over somebody else. Right. So you know, if they know that customers, how they think? Right, how they you know how they have thought traditionally. You know what they're you know what their values and or gaps are in the market place. Well, they're in a much better position to facilitate a discussion. And it's not, you know, we know this chat. It's not. You know, it's not pitching and pray and it's it's not. It's not throwing up on a white board that succeeds anymore. Right, it is. It's facilitating a discussion and being part of that discussion and and then having values, right, and you know value you either from services or products that that are, you know, part and parcel to that discussion. I'm totally still in the pitch and prey. I've I hadn't heard that in a very long time, so I'm going to bring that one back. That very easy. Hey, it still holds true, right, it does. It doesn't mean you see a lot of sales reps and sales. You know, revenue exacts are all about the now, because that's you know, they're own the numbers, they got quotas, they got a hit and some of this is a little bit more nuanced, I think, than it used to be, just because of the education level of the customers. And I don't know, you know, I've seen a lot of sales reps, a lot of more can people fall back on? Well, Hey, I know I drink the Koolaid when I do my onboarding and I love the company I work for and everybody should love it. And that switch to, you know, really trying to look at things from the buyers perspective. You know, sales has been struggling with this for years and I think today it becomes even more critical in order to have that type of collaborative interaction with your customers. And I'm not a hundred percent sure that most sales exacts have totally embrace that or realized realize the importance of that. You still see kind of that sprint for the goal line type of mentality which, yes, we got to produce a numbers, that's what sales is there for. But I think the way it happens and if they really want to get transformative in their sales organizations, they're going to have to look at the way their organization is perceived by the buyers they're interacting with. It's like fair perspective. Oh, I think so. I mean I you know, it's great and we, you know, we love our our team members who have, you know, a great deal, you know, Spirit and passion for our capabilities and you know that's that's critical, right, because you got to get up and and still hear a lot of knows every day. But that's you know, that's that's part of the that's part of the deal. But combining,...

...you know, we talk a little bit internally about, you know, working with those customers that get it right, the get up, that get us and real get them and and you see the opportunity and you know, obviously in a services organization, I think that's that's inherently more valuable because, you know, ultimately it's a you're creating value out of intangibles and and so, you know, building those bridges with with customers where their shared values, where their shared vision. Well, in order to in order to see that, boy, your you better increase your collaborative game and and and increase your investment in your customers so that so that you can help them see right that that there's an opportunity to to create, you know, really cool things through the combination of you know, your values and their imagine. Your board sets a target of twenty percent revenue growth in eighteen months. So something will have to change with your sales team. How do you beat your target? Value Prime Solutions can help ensure your man managers and reps are leveraging a sales framework that focuses on value, not price. Don't assume you have it all figured out. Don't wait until it's too late. Visit Value Prime Solutionscom and let them help. Alignment is critical, I think, even internally as they're working on transformation, breaking down those silos and creating creating better alignment internally, and I think it's just as critical to create it with the customers. Now I'm Magenic. You guys. Have you been growing? I have a great reputation, especially in a market. You know, I spent the last ten years in that market, especially in the market that was going through consolidation and all types of things. So I'm kind of curious what strategies and tactics have you developed or found that you would advise other revenue executives to employ to inspire the type of sales behavior and change that has been successful for you guys have Magenic? Yeah, well, I mean I think that this kind of goes back to what we're talking about earlier is, you know, having a healthy sense of paranoia that you are your you're always fallen behind it in terms of your capabilities and or your approaches with customers and and and so you know, constantly, you know, looking for opportunities to improve. And either that can be in your service models, that can be in your capabilities, that can be in your products. Right, for product development firms, you know they are. They have been constantly improving, you know, and those that don't won't go away. And so, you know, I think that the key for for you know, revenue executives is is to recognize that they've got a role in that. Right again, because they're closest to the customers and you know, those revenue executives that that recognize that that change piece is hard and an...

...invest in it right and and really, you know, make that part of their problem are, you know, are the most successful in those that that kind of are always looking back and going, where's my new stuff? Right, what are you? You know, hey, I don't have something. You know, then you know they're not they're not buying into their opportunity to affect transformation and just out of curiosity. So we've seen. I was I was talking to a Gabl arson from inside sales and we were talking about the rise, kind of the rise, of the crow role and how it seems to be kind of a combination of that sales and marketing in an attempt to, I don't know, understand or get closer to the buyer and infuse that inside of their organizations. Be Real curious to hear your take on that role, that chief revenue officer roll, and kind of where you've seen it be the most successful and what it looks like. HMM. Well, other than, you know, a sales guys, traditionally I've had a hard time with anything called chief right, right, there's always that that dry but no, I mean it. You know, that traditional challenge or or sort of gap between sales and marketing is has always existed, right, because there's a human factor right of of sales that that really needs to be taken into account and, you know, the greatest product or service with the greatest message. If, if, if you can't enable that connection between, you know, that salesperson or the revenue individual and the customer, if that connection can't happen, even though it's the greatest product and service with the greatest message, well the you know, then it's off or not right. So so as I think it's it's it's sort of bringing into the day to day reality that, you know, it's it is a tough job to sell. It's a tougher job now to sell in technology and services. Then then I think it ever has been. And you know, bringing that human factor is, I think, is a key opportunity of that. Chief Revenue Officer, excellent. So so let's pivot here a little bit and talk more a little bit more specifically about Magenic. Can you help our audience understand, because you guys are a large services organization, how you guys have effectively structured the sales and marketing team? Yeah, sure, I mean so. You know, like many, we've got our feet on the street within our rate regional sales organizations and and you know sales and you know what we call our delivery leadership organization. So these are these are all the individuals who our closest to customers. And so, you know, we've got our senior account executives that are out in in our you know, field, regional locations, and then they're supported by in an inside, you know, sales and support organization that is able to walk, you know, work across the you know, across our target markets and and...

...you know where there's heat and or driving campaigns and or, you know, if some organizations need a little bit more assistance, there there to you know, back up and support them. And and then, you know, constantly looking to evolve those channels that the that the sales organizations are able to work through, either you know, partner channels and or, you know, sort of strategic marketing channels. Excellent. And as you guys continue to focus on growth for Magenic, what would you say, end of this year and going into two thousand and eighteen, is your largest business issue? Well, I think that it's. It's it's a lot of the things that we've talked about, but time right is, I thinking. For us and for for many firms, that's the that's the biggest challenge. Where to go fast and, you know, really put yea, put the pedal to the metal and and we're not to write because your investments aren't equal and in different areas. And so I think that managing a managing that transformation and and the time that's necessary. I think those are those are some of the biggest things that that we continue to work on. And when you look back over the last say, twelve, the eighteen months, and I mean because you know, we talked about this before, it's a constant change, it's a constant evolution. But when you look back at the Organization of last twelve, eighteen months, what are you the most proud of that Magenic has been able to accomplish or or achieve in that time? You know, I it's I've again, I've been with the firm for twenty one years and it's it's the same answer. You could you could have asked me this eighteen years ago and and it was, you know, we had a distinct opportunity where, you know, we were you know, we were really looked at by the customer to to think about how they could be different in their marketplace and you know, we went through some innovation cycles and and we really enabled the company to look and see themselves differently, you know, their products differently, and to their customers. And you know, I can remember, you know, one of our team members had she passed along an email in which the customers said look, you know, I view you guys as a partner in my organization and so to see the you know, the eyes, you know, go wide, you know, with our customers and with our team members, you know, working together and haven't having a great time and, you know, doing some great things. That's you know, that's that's pretty cool, excellent and it's totally off the wall. Questions based on something that talking my memory here. Do you...

...guys ever do competitive win loss like have an outside firm call your customers that you won and interview them or the customers that you've lost to get kind of that unbiased third party collection of informations? That's something you guys have ever engaged in? Yeah, we have. You know, we quite honestly, we probably don't do it enough, but yeah, because I think that this is something that could be done, you know, really every year because you learn so much, but we probably it's probably every three years or so that we do it and and I do think that it's really important to get that outside or involved so you're, you know, sort of getting that independent, unbiased, you know, feedback. And you know, the last time that we did there were some things that hurt a little bit right because how we viewed ourselves and how, you know, some of some of our customers viewed us was was a little different and and it really did set up the the opportunity for us to to then go okay, well, Hey, you know, we can make improvements. We can, you know, we can, we can be better and we can be different. And and that doesn't mean that what we're doing today is bad, because what we're doing today is great. But you can always, you can always approach your customers in a better fashion and or do more for them, and I think that's what you really learn and it you know, forces, you know forces, they the leaders and the executives to you know, to be open and and really can. I think what we've seen is that it really does spark that that opportunity for transformation. It was always such an interesting tool when I was running sales teams especially. I mean the organization is a whole. You have some exacts that would would believe what they were reading or hearing and some that would you know, not differing levels of violence in their reaction depending on what was being said. But it became one of the most effective tools in debriefing sales reps that had lost deals. And you're right, it's uncomfortable. I remember the first time I went through one. It's not fun. I mean you you just you're basically getting told everything you did wrong and if you're not in the right mindset to accept that and internalize that and then implement the behavioral change as an individual, you know, you know you're given an opportunity to succeed here with the feedback and if you can approach it the right way, I think it can really contribute to success. I just curious if it was curious if you guys had run into that or used it before. So I appreciate well and it and enables, if you don't enable that, that sort of culture of openness right. And and none of us, I was all of this, you know, completely figured out. Then you know then it can be kind of an ugly thing, but I don't know what you've seen. The other side of the that is is that there's a there's a there's a number of team members, you know, once the reports come in and they kind of look back and they go, I told you so, I telling you this for...

...a little while. Yeah, so it's fun to see that as well. It's like any relationship. You know, my wife's always like so, I just told you that for three weeks and you weren't listening to me and you ask your buddy and now all of a sudden it's real. Yeah, he say, you told me what? Yeah, what? I wasn't oh. So now we're back to talking about my selective listening. Okay, exactly. All right, so let's Change Directional bit here. I ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions towards the end of each show. The first is simply that you are as a revenue executive, you are not to put to find a put out, but your target, your prospect for sales professionalism. We spend a lot of time working with companies to help them be able to get in front of people like yourself to sell their things. So I'm curious when somebody's trying to sell to you, somebody that you don't know, and they're trying to get your attention build credibility, what grabs your attention? What helps them build that credibility and and perhaps get that first meeting? Well, I don't know about you, Chad, but for me that relationship thing. Me, you know, that really matters. And so because we, you know, we do get hit a lot and when we get hit, we're getting hit from all directions, and so, you know, we get really good at putting that filter on and are my out. None of this matters, right. But when you know, when a friend or a trusted associate or a colleague says Hey, Matt, you know, I know you well enough to know that this, this is something that you might want to give, you know, ten minutes to boy, that that really does matter. And so finding, you know, it's sort of like, you know, one of those Maze Games, and and finding the path where you know you can build, build that relationship, you know, through somebody or through a connection. I think that, at least for me, that's that's really important. Excellent, excellent. So last question we ask is for an acceleration in sight. So if you're thinking about sales and marketing professionals, you could give them one piece of advice that you think would make them more effective, more able to hit their targets and succeed. What would that be in why? Well, I mean I think that you know, I personally. We talked about this, I think, when we're together last yeah, that you can't you can't teach hard work and that's always got to be there. But if you incorporate some of that, that constant learning, and you know, and the one thing that I would encourage is is boy, read something new every day. Read one new thing every day. It doesn't take long, you know, get up in the morning and spend ten minutes read something new and then, you know, write a note or two about it, right and and then all of a sudden it becomes, you know, part of you and part of your repertoire and and you're more insightful, you're more interesting and more people are going to want to spend time with you. Perfect matter...

...for listeners interested in talking more about the topics we touched on today. What's the best way to get in touch with you? Yeah, absolutely, and love to. You know, I I'm in constant learning. Then that comes, you know, more through people and dialogs like this then than anything else. But you know, Madelmattl at Magenic M age and I Secom Excellent. Well, I can't thank you enough for the time day. It's been great having it on the show. Hey, really appreciate the opportunity to chant. All right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please check us out at be to be REV exaccom. Share the episode with your friends, Family's co workers. If you like what you here, drop us a review on itunes. We do use those to determine what types of guests we bring on for you guys to listen to. And until next time, we have value prime solutions. With you all. Nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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