The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Matt Lockhart on Business Transformation: Pitfalls, Benefits, and the Cutting Edge

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Change is inevitable. Whether you’re working for a small business, or a company of forty thousand people, at some point you’re going to go through some sort of major organizational change.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Executive Experience, we were fortunate enough to sit down with Matt Lockhart, Executive Vice President at Magenic and chat about business transformation. It’s pitfalls, it’s benefits, and why it’s so important for companies to stay on the cutting edge.

You can find a breakdown of this episode here.

Today, on the BTB revenue executiveexperience, we're speaking with Matt Lockhart from Magenic about businesstransformation, the pitfalls benefits and why it's so important for companiesto stay on the cutting edge, we're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated BELP executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies for tools and resources, you've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: Welcome everyone, I'myour host chat, Sanderson and today we're going to be tackling the topic ofbusiness transformation. It's one that shows up a lot in the press. We'rehearing a lot of people talk about it. Many of US probably no organizationsthat are undergoing or tackling these types of transformative initiatives,and it's not necessarily an easy thing to accomplish, especially when reallyto stay competitive. Today, you have to instill that acceptance of change andtransformation into the DNA of the company we're lucky enough to have withUS Matt Lockhart and an executive fom Magenic Beha's, going to talk to usabout how he's been enable ind companies and Magenic has been enabling companies to do transformation in an successful way. We spent some timetalking about. You know what really his transformation, why the market and theindustry has changed a bit and the need for it to be part of the DNA is socritical. So without further do we're going to jump right into the interviewwith Matt Mad thanks for taking the time and welcome to the show hey it'sgreat to be here Cham. So we have a standard question. We ask every guess,but at the beginning of the show to talk about get to know you a little bitbetter and talk about kind of a defining moment in your life or careerthat either you w changed the trajectory of where you were headed orgave you a lesson you learn from, would love to? Have you share that with aguest we get a better sense of who you are and where you came from and whereYou'R headed yeah? Well, I appreciate that it's it's a little bit of a toughone, because there's been a few but and we'll focus on the definant aidafinding moment in career on the lifeside. I've got four daughter, soyou can amaddle se. You can imagine what what what defines that you know on the career side. So I'vebeen with this firm for you know over two decades right D and as you canimagine, I've seen quite a bit of change and one of the things that was you knowreally distinct is. Is We had this sort of very distributed regional model where it was almost aslow? We had sort of kind of Franchisee organizations out and about around thecountry and as a a really a need to change, to adapt towhat our customers were. Looking for. You know we really needed to get peopleworking together and much more of a common and centralized model, and that included thedevelopment of of some services that...

...arour regional branches needed to takehold of, and so you know changing where everybody was you know, kind of wasable to do a little bit of their own thing to much more of a common, structured and value drivenmodel was was was kind of one of those definingmoments, excellent so far ourlisters. Could you give thim a little bit ofbackground Omagenic and your role there sure? So we are a professional servicesfirm that is focused on you know, driving, really, disruptive and transformationaltechnology solutions. You know, so you can think of all of the new customerexperiences that are being driven out out of mobile platforms and or commonmobile. The web platforms and those are the things that we help our customers invision and and think about and dreamabout, and then you know bring to reality and your Rolin, theorganization yeah. So you know again: I've been with the firm since we areall of you know about eight people and we've got around a thousand people now,and you know, my role has always beeninvolved in in the growth of the business either in you know growingmarkets and or growing capabilities. Currently, my role is the vicepresident of strategy and Business Development. Excellent excellent. Todaywe wanted to focus on transformation, creating a transformation of culture,how it happens and really what the business results can be. It's a bigtopic these days right, there's, no lack of approaches to it, but I'd loveto get your kind of definition and context of it for our listeners beforewe dive deeper yeah. You know there, I'm sure all of all of us havebeen reading and seen and in the press and or the trador trade rags that youknow everything is all about transformation, as though this is a asthough this is a new subject. It's not cha changes, perpetual. You know. I think that what what wehave seen more recently in the last well shoot. Probably the last decade isthe pace of change, and the pace of transformation is really going fasterthan ever right n it and it is driven by our our digital culture, and youknow, by customers, demand of advancement and in the services and andhow we all interact. You know there's an immediacy of things and, and you know, if you don't have thesort of e, the next greatest experience or at least shoot an experience of this,that is on por with somebody else. It's so easy to change to. You know Forit, for customers to changewho they're working with, and so that is really...

...driven. This need to for organizationsto understand that boy. You can't you know, sort of set it and forget itanymore, you're, constantly evolving and those those organizations that are you know improving at that andimproving their capabilities around transforming are those organizationsthat are winning today welland, you said you know, it seems, like everybodytalks about like it's something new, but it's definitely I mean something:that's been going on forever. I'm curious, though, have you noticed thatit seems like things like customers want to move faster than they didbefore, and is that I I like I'm getting older, I won't send in here aguest othing, I'm getting old hat we've been doing this a while. I'm noticingthat perhaps my perception of time is different and it just feels likecustomers want to move so fast that they're not paying attention to thebasics. Is that something you're seeing as well? Well, I think so I you know, Ithink that you know one of the other perspectives is that you know changeand transformation in the past was more of an inside outright mentality. It's like somebody, you know from the inside recognized andnow it's much more of an outside in where customers are demanding that that transformation and they'redemanding it now, and so that is, that is putting a different kind of time pressure onthings. Now, if it's reactionary, you know that'swhere those you know, decisions that you know sometimes are questionable andor you know they need to go back in andand and rethink them occur. If, if change is accepted and transformationis accepted as a as a this sort of ongoing paradigm, you know, then Ithink it can be managed, and those decisions are, you know, are better met to to thecustomer demand, as well as the as the abithe organizations ability to to succeed and as we were prepereg forthe show and talking about the transformation and where it starts. Youknow you mentioned really needing to understand the motivation to change askind of the starting point. In your experience, what are some of thelargest motivtors Youre, seeing today for organizations to change it and arethey aware of of their own motivations to change ors it more reactionary thananything else? Well, I personally see both right theres, both positive as well as kind ofnegative incentives. There's the fear Wow, I'm really in trouble and I'mlosing market share or I'm losing customers or etc, etc. Or you know,sometimes what we see is in some senses kind of that irrationalfear where they're going well, you know look at what happened to blockbuster,they got disrupted and we could get...

...disrupted to like that. Yet they th,yet they really haven't gone out to the market and to their customers tounderstand what they want right and then there's the the sort of morepositive things where those firms that have gotten closer to their customers,they they're better understanding the experience there they're accepting thefact that you know there's the limitations thatexist currently but there's a you know, there's a roadmaps and opportunities toto transform and really take hold of thevalues that they've built up the foundational capabilities and valuesthat they have and and have a nice. You know long run and and we've seen andboth of us have seen those transformation initiatives. You knowfail a lot of them. You know struggle to break down those silos or get closerto the customer. I'm curious in the work that you guys have done. Have youseen any early key indicators for those types of initiatives that mightindicate the larger chance of long term success? Yeah, it's interesting in a Chait, I'm sure you'veee. We allsee the kind of trade ray exand or the the analyst and- and you know, Gardnerhad this term. The bimotal organization right and yet it you know truly, thereis a need for vision and and obviously funding and Etcet etce, which arereally you know, kind of top level executive responsibilities. But whatI've seen is that UNTEL, you see the movement in that sort of grasp rootsmovement. Some would say it's the volunteers thatreally drive change, because everybody's you know got their day, joband or and or everybody's comfortable doing the things that they're doingtoday and or they they see what they how they are. You know what their firms values are.It's Beeng, just fine, but until people sort of get out on, you know get out ontheir skis a little bit and and get comfortable with trying things that arenew and what we've seen is is that's reallyhappens at that cruise grass roots level and so n. When you see peoplestarting to kind of look around the corner and going hey what's going onthere and I've got some thoughts and have you guys thought of doing this,and that really happens at that crass roots level, and when you see thosethings happening, that is, you know, that's a real positive indication thatyou're that you're down the track WASNT, so organizations have to be able to getthe entire entity over time to embrace change right to be willing to do it.Everybody scared to death of it. So I'm curious that an organizational levelhave you seen things th thet companies are doing that are effective, atdhelping the organization as a whole embrace change, or is it really thatdicotomy of we've got the funding in the vision? And now we just need somevolunteers to kind of get the momentum...

...going well, I think that there needs tobe a recognition that it's that you know it's hard right, that that thereis failure you. You know that common term of you know fail fast, but it there is some level of truth toit. Where you got to recognize that enabling this sort of organictransformation means that you're not quite exactlysure of the path that you're going to be on IG, I mean it's Goingno, there'sgoing to be some bumps and there's going to be some wines and and andbeing okay with that and- and you know, I think that therre another piece is:Is Your, you know the investment and there's clearly investment in dollarsthat enable it, but there needs to be an investment in time. You know indtime equals money as well: Er you're, giving people the opportunity andyou're giving them some space to try things out now. You know I had theopportunity to chat with an individual who is responsible for transformationat a organization. You know, as I mentioned, were a thousand people, andyou know I find it hard enough within our or Goinna, but he's you know, he's driving changeacross an organization that it's literally hundreds of thousands ofpeople- and you know that blew my mind and I'm like what in the world how howit is and how do you? You know roll up into a ball and start trying. What doyou think about that and he said, look it happens. You know one piece at atime, so you take one team and then the next team and the next team and thenext team, and so I think that you've got to break things up right and andsome parts of the organization aren't going to be ready and some functionsreally don't need a level of change, but others you know others do and andif that means creating, you know, transformation, groups or innovationgroups o to sort of light the fire, then you know that'd be one thing andor you just you know, give more. You knowsome some groups and teams more freedom than others. Ah, and- and we weretalking about- you- know constant intellectual curiosity and curiosityisextremely powerful. I don't know if there was a report that came out astudy that showed curiosities the biggest thing that the eman brain hasto resolve, and it's why you get. I don't know what you guys Call MinMinnesota, but look you lose on the highway Soif. There's a nasty accidenton the other side of the road. You know you have the potential to see somereally horrible things, but your brain can't help but force you to look and onan individual level we tap into that in sales, but at ad an organizationallevel. How do you? How do you instill that curiosity? Is it literally oneteam at a time, and then you instill it? How do you maintain it? Have you seenways that organizations or people are being effective at that yeah boy? Youknow, I think that if you could, if you could bottle that Dan yeah reallybeyond us something because I think that's challenging right is his. Youknow individually. We all have a...

...different sort of level of individualintellectual curiosity, but you know, I think, that's a leadership thing really.I mean you know. If leaders demonstrate that intellectual curiosity and and andthey're they're, then celebrating it and you sort of see that propagatedyeah, I mean you Kno, as we were preparing Iza excuse me as I was preparing foryou know our chat today. I just came across this. You know something fromMcKenzie yea there's. There is no lack of an opportunity to learn, but you know really propagating the thatmentality of hey look. You know, I want you to be smarter than me as a matterof fact, you are smarter than me right. So don't look to me, you tell me youknow and because those those people that are closest you know closer tocustomers and and sort of see those opportunitiesto increase value or do something better. That is going to create a better experience. Those areYo. Those are your opportunities for innovation, and you know, learning from them. I S is,is really some magic and it's one of those things that I've always struggledwith when we work with clients- or you know, teach sales, sales teams thatconcept of that continual selfimprovement right that I I don'ttypically call it curiosity in class, but that's what we're talking about islike you need to constantly be the learning in order to be able to engagewith your buyers in the right way to bring value to the conversation thattakes time it takes. It takes an awareness and a willingness to do it,and I just see so many sales raps that don't do it. They fall back to hey.This is a service we provider. These are the features sof functions. It'slike take. You now take some time understand how the entire landscape isgoing. Keep Educating Yourself, and I just I don't know how you instill thatin the in the sale seem, I think the leadership Bangolis a great one. MaybeI shouldhavhave Pendi more time with the sales leadership n than I have been,but when we look at transformation, we've been looking at theorganizational level. Let's look at just sales, an marketing for a secondsure, absolutely the buyer- landscapes changed. You know this. We've talkedabout this before right. It's just gotten. It's got a little moredemanding, especially and B, to be because they're bringing their btc exexpectations to the be to be buying, process right and they demand value.They want to be collaborated with, and so what, when it comes to jis salestransformation or marketing transformation are the hurdles for thatspecific type of organization, Different From your perspective thansay, the global organizational hurdles and if there, if they are different,you know. Why do you think that is yeah? I think that it is probably more challenging, because you knowyou're dealing you're really needing to align agreater group of stakeholders and if it's in the context of transformationand change, right and and working differently and or meeting customersdifferently, then you've got a bigger...

...group of stakeholders who really havetheir ideas in mind and you're needing to meet those stakeholders with yourown organizations on a stakeholders and so there's just a greater degree ofadaptability. You know that that is needed, and I think that going back toyou know sort of that last subject that we were talking about and you go well.How do you meet that? Well, you got to know your customers better than everright and you got, and that takes that again. That's that up tock, ancuriosity right that that can give you know an individual salesperson, the legup over somebody else right. So you know if they know that customers howthey think right, how they, you know how they have thought. Traditionally,you know what theire you know, what their values and or gaps are in themarketplace. Well there in a much better position to facilitate adiscussion, and it's not you know. We know this chat. It's not! You know it'snot pitching and praying it's. It's not! It's not thrown up on a white boardthat succeeds anymore right. It is it's facilitating a discussion and beingpart of that discussion and and then having values right and you know valueeither from services or products that that are. You know, partin parcel tothat discussion. I'm totally stilling the pitch and prey V. I hadn't heardthat in a very long time, so I'm going to bring that one back. That eatheriitstill helps true right. Does it doesn't mean you see a lot of sales raps andsells? You know revenue EXAC for all about the now, because that's you knowtheir own, the numbers. They got quotas, they got a hit, and some of this is alittle bit more nuanced. I think than it used to be just because of theeducation level of the customers, and I don't know you know I've seen a lot ofsales reps. an a lot of Markin people fall back on. Well, Hey. I know I drinkthe kuled when I did my onboarding and I love the company I work for andeverybody should love it and that switch to you know really trying tolook at things from the buyers perspective. You Know Asal Hav beenstruggling with this for years, and I think today it becomes even morecritical in order to have that type ofcollaborative interaction with your customers and I'm not a hundred percentsure that most sales exacts have totally embraced that or realized. You now realize the importance of that.You still see kind of that sprint for the goal line, type of mentality which,yes, we got to produce the numbers, that's what sales is there for, but Ithink the way it happens and if they really want to get transformative intheir sales organizations, they're going to have to look at the way, theirorganization s perceived by the buyers they're interacting with it's like fairperspective. Oh I think so I mean I, you know it's great and we've. You knowwe love our our team members who have you know a great deal. You Know Spiritand passion for our capabilities, and you know that's that's critical rightbecause you got to get up and and still hear a lot of nose every day. But andthat's you know, that's that's part of...

Tha, that's part of the deal, but combining you know we talk a littlebit internally about you know working with those customers that get it right,that get up that get us and rea get them, and- and you see the opportunity-and you know obviously in a services organization. I think that's that'sinherently more valuable because you know ultimately, it's a you're,creating value out of intangibles and- and so you know, building those bridgeswith with customers where their sharedvalues, where their shared vision well. In order to in order to see that boy,your you better increase your collaborative game and and and increaseyour investment in your customers, so that so that you can help them seeright that that there's an opportunity to tocreate you know really cool things through. The combination of you knowyour values and their imagine. Your board sets a target of twenty percentrevenue growth in eighteen months, so something will have to change with yoursales team. How do you bet your target value? Prime solutions can help, ensureyour managers and reps are leveraging a sales framework that focuses on value,not price, don't assume you have it all figured out, don't wait until it's toolate visit value, Prime Solutionscom and let them help alignment is critical.I think even internally know as they're working on transformation breaking downthose silos and creating creating better alignement internally, and Ithink it's just as critical to create it with the customers. Now emagenic,you guys have ve been growing, have a great reputation, especially in amarket. You know I spent the last ten years in that market, especially in themarket T at was going through consolidation and all types of things.So I'm kind of curious what strategies and tactics have you developed or foundthat you would advise other revenue executives to employ to inspire thetype of sales, behavior and change that that has been successful for you guysof Magenic Yeah? Well, I mean, I think, that this kind of goes back to whatwe're talking about earlier. Is You know, having a healthy sense of paranoia that you are your you're always fallenbehind right in terms of your capabilities and or your approacheswith customers and and and so you know constantly, youknow looking for opportunities to improve, and you know that can be in your servicemodels that can be in your capabilities that can be in your products right forproduct development firms. You know they are, they have been constantlyimproving, you know and those that don't go away, and so you know, I think that the key for, foryou know, revenue executives is, is to recognize that they've got a role inthat right again, because they're closest to the customers- and you knowthose revenue executives that that...

...recognize that that change piace ishard right and and invest in it right and really, you know make that part oftheir problem. You know, are the most successful inthose that that kind of are always looking back and going where's my newstuff right. What are you you know? Hey, I don't have something you know, thenyou know they're, not they're not buying into their opportunity to affecttransformation, and just a curiosity so we've seen I was, I was talking to aGayblarson from inside sales, and we were talking about the rise kind of therise of the CRO role and how it seems to be kind of a combination of thatsales and marketing in an attempt to I don't know, understand or get closer tothe buyrand anfuse that inside of their organizations. I'd be real curious tohear your take on that role, that chief revenue officer, rule and kind of whereyou've seen it be the most successful and what it looks like, hmm well otherthan you know, sales guys. Traditionally I had a hard time withanything called chiep right right. THAT'S RIVT! But no I mean you know.Tha Traditional Challenge, O or sort of gap betweensales and marketing has always existed right because there's a human factorright O of sales at that really needs to be taken into account, and you knowthe greatest product or service with the greatest message. If, if, if youcan't enable that connection between you know that salesperson or therevenue individual and the customer in that connection, can't happen, eventhough it's the greatest product and service with the greatest message? Well,the you know, then it's off or not right. So so it's, I think, it's sortof bringing into the daytoday reality that you know it's. It is a tough jobto sell and it's a tougher job now to sell in technology and services. Thenthen I think it ever has been, and you know bringing that human factor, Ithink, is a key opportunity of that chief evenue officer excellent. So so,let's Piv it here a little bit and talk more little bit more specifically aboutMagenic. Can you help our audience understand? Because you guys are alarge services organization, how you guys have effectively structured thesales, a marketing team? Yeah sure I mean so. You know like like many we've got our feet onthe street within our rate, regional sales organizations and- and you know,sales- and you know what we call our delivery leadership organization. Sothese are. These are all the individuals who are closest tocustomers, and so you know, we've got our senior account executives that areout in in our you know: Field Bregional locations and then they're supported byand an inside. You know sales and support organization that is able towalk. You know work across the...

...you know across our target markets and-and you know where there's heat and or driving campaigns and or you know, ifsome organizations need a little bit more assistant there there to you, knowback up and support them and and then you know constantly looking to evolvethose channels that the that the sales organizations are able to work througheither you know partner channels and, or you know, sort of strategicmarketing channels excellent and, as you guys continue to focus on growthfor Magenic. What would you say end of this year in going into two thosand?And eighteen is your largest business issue? Well, I think that it's it's it's a lot of the things thatwe've talked about, but t time right is. Is I thinkin for Asand for for manyfirms? That's the that's the biggest challenge. Where to go fast- and youknow really put yeah- put the pedal to the metal and and wear not to right,because your investments aren't equal and in different areas, and so I thinkthat managing managing that that transformation and and the time that's necessary. I think those are those are some of thebiggest things hat that we continue to work on and when you look back over thelast say twelve to eighteen months, and I mean because you know we talked aboutthis before- to constant change- it's a constant evolution, but when you lookback at the organization or he last twelve to eighteen months, what are youthe most proud of that Magenic has been able to accomplish or or achieve inthat time you know it's I've again. I've been with thefirm for twenty one years and it's the same answer you could. You could haveasked me this eighteen years ago and it was you know we had a distinctopportunity where you know we were. We were really looked at by thecustomer to to think about how they could be different in their marketplace,and you know we went through some innovation cycles and, and we really enabled the company to look and seethemselves differently. You know their products differently, Oto theircustomers, and you know I can remember you know one of our team members heashe passed along an email in whichthe customer said look. You know, I view you guys as a partner in myorganization and so to see t e, the you know the eyes. Gon No go wide, you knowwith our customers and with our team members. You know working together and have'tghaving a great time, and you know doing some great things. That's you know,that's that's pretty cool excellent, totally off the walk question justbased on something that Togge my...

...memoryere. Do you guys ever do competitive win loss like have anoutside firm call, your customers that Youv won and interview them or thecustomers that you've lost to get kind of that unbiased third party collectionof information? Is that something you guys have ever engaged in yeah? We haveyou know we've quite honestly, we probably don't do itenough, but yeah, because I think that this is something that could be done.You know really every year, because you learned so much, but we probably it's probably every three years or sothat we do it, and I do think that it's really important to get that outside orinvolved so you're sarted. Getting that independent, unbiased. You knowfeedback, and you know the last time that we did. There were some things that hurt alittle bit right, because how we viewed ourselves and how you know some of someof our customers viewed us was- was a little different and, and it really didset up the the opportunity for us to to then go okay. Well, hey you know, wecan make improvements, we can you know we can. We can be better and we can bedifferent and, and that doesn't mean that what we're doing today is bad,because what we're doing today is great, but you can always. You can alwaysapproach your customers in a better fashion and or do more for them, and Ithink that's what you really learn and it you know, forces you know, forces he, the leaders andthe executives to you know to be open and, and really can. I think what we've seenis that it really does spark that that opportunity for transformation. It wasalways such an interesting tool when I was running sales teams, especially Imean the organization, is a whole you'd have some exacts. That would wouldbelieve what they were reading or hearing in some. That would, you knownot differing levels of violence in thei reaction, depending onwhat was being said, but it became one of the most effective tools indebriefing sales, reps that had lost deals and you're right. It'suncomfortable. I remember the first time I went through one: It's not fun,I mean Yo, you just you're, basically getting told everything you did wrongand if you're not in the right mindset to accept that and internalize that anthen implement the behavioril change as an individual. You know y o You'e, given an opportunity tosucceedore with the feedback, and if you can approach it the right way, Ithink it can really contribute to success. I just curious if it wascurious, if guys had run into that or used it before. So I appreciate Eahwell and it and enables, if you don't enable that that sort of culture o ofopenness right and an and none of us has all of this. You know completelyfigured out, then you know, then it can be kind of an ugly thing, but I don'tknow what you've seen the other side o the that is. Is thatthere's a there's there's a number of team members. You know once the reportscome in and they kind of look back and...

...they go. I told you so 've beentelling you this for a littlewhile yeah, so it's fun to see that as well. It's like any relationship. Youknow my wife's always like, so I just told you that for three weeks and youweren't listening to me and you ask your buddy and now all of a sudden,it's real yeah. You told me what yeah what I wasn't. Ohso now we're back to talk about my selective listening. Okay, exactly all right, so let's Change Direction!Ittle bit here. I ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions towardsthe end of each show. The first is simply that you are as a revenueexecive. You are not to put to fin a point out, but your target, yourprospect for sales professionalism. We spend a lot of time working withcompanies to help them be able to get in front of people like yourself tosell their things. So I'm curious when somebody's trying to sell to you,somebody that you don't know and they're trying to get your attentionbuild credibility. What grabs your tension? What helps them build thatcredibility, an and perhaps get that first meeting. Well, I don't know aboutyou, Chad, but for me that relationship thing me. You know that really matters, and so because we, you know, we do get hit alot and we get hit we're getting hit from all directions, and so you know weget really good at putting that filter on and or out. None of this mattersright, but when you know when a friend or trusted associate or a colleaguesays, Hey map, you know, I know you well enough to know that this. This issomething that you might want to give. You know ten minutes to boy that that really does matter and sofinding you know it's sort of like you know, one of those Maze Games andand finding the path where you know you can build build that relationship. Youknow through somebody or through a connection. I think that the least forme, that's that's, really important, excellent excellent. So last questionwe ask is for an acceleration insight. So if you're thinking about salesmarketing professionals, you could give them one piece of advice that you thinkwould make them more effective, more able to hit their targets and succeed.What would that be? And why well I mean, I think that you know I personally, we talked about this. I think whenwe're together last year, that you can't you can't teach hard work andthat's always got to be there, but if you incorporate some of that, thatconstant learning- and you know- and the one thing that I would encourage, Iis boy read something new every day read one new thing: every day itdoesn't take long, you know get up in the morning. Spendten minutes read something new and then you know write a note or two about itright and and then all of a sudden it becomes. You know, part of you and parto your repertoire and and you're moreinsightful, you're, more interesting and more people are going to want tospend time with you perfect,...

...madifphilisteris interested in talkingmore about the topics we touched on today. What's the best way to get intouch with you, yeah, absolutely in love to you know I I'm in constantlearning, and that comes in a more through people and dialogues like thisthan anything else, but you know Matel Mattl at Magenic, magendiccom excellent. Well, I can't thank you enough for the time dayit's beengreat having you on the show, Hey, really appreciate the opportunity, Chan,all right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please check us out. OtBTB revezccom share the episode with your friends, familyes coworkers. Ifyou like what you hear drop us a review on Itunes, we do use those to determinewhat types of guests we bring on for you guys to listen to and until nexttime we avalue prime solutions wish you all nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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