The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Mark Kosoglow on Why Sales Reps Shouldn’t Select Their Own Accounts

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“The more complex you make the sale, the less success you’re going to have.

As Mark Kosoglow, VP of Sales at Outreach.io, puts it, “humans suck at making decisions.” Therefore, the way you sell has to be focused and value-driven.

In this episode, Mark shares some of Outreach’s greatest successes and obstacles, as well as why revenue executives shouldn’t allow their reps to select the accounts they prospect into.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Are you concerned about hitting your revenue targets this month, quarter or year? Your answer is value prime solutions, a sales training and marketing optimization company leveraging the value selling framework. visit www dot value prime solutionscom and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, chat senders and for those that don't have time to listen to the entire episode, as always, feel free to check us out at be to be REV exectcom or, course, on Itunes, were viewers always appreciated. Today we have with US Mark Cazegilo, VP of sales with outreach dot ioh now any of our listeners who work with me or anybody who's been in classes? No, I'm a huge fan of what outreach is doing. Social we no surprise and a little more excited the normal to talk to mark. So, mark, I want to first thank you very much for taking the time and welcome to the show. Thanks man. What up? So when we start these conversations we like to try and do our best to kind of front load some of the value for our listeners and I like to ask her guests. You know, if you look back over your career, was there a defining moment or something that happened that you know, give you a lesson that you continue to refer to, to go back to day in and day out? And if so, what was that? How did it affect your kind of career at your dectory? Well, chat, I was thinking about this after you set me the note earlier this morning or late last night, and I have three stories. So I can give you three and two minutes. I need you one and two minutes. You get the PI. Let's go with three. Let's see what happens. storry cool. First one was I was selling to schools and you know we've all had kids or been those kids ourselves that sold candy bars and if he sold ten candy bars you got this little widget and if you sold k t bars you got that little widget. Or I was the guy that organized all that and help schools raise money for field trips and playgrounds and things like that. And the little widgets, little prizes that you'd get was part of the plan of like Hey, I'm going to go do a bunch of stuff and I'm going to get all these different toys and things and I'm going to let the people that run the fundraisers at the school pick what they want. As I created this point system, like you could buy this many for this point and this on, all this kind of stuff to help them kind of customize it so that, because I know the kids better than I do right, it was a complete disaster. I learned in that moment that the more complex you make the sale, the less success you're going to have, and that's why I, you know, I like to present one choice at a time, because humans suck at making decisions. As a first one, the second one was I had a awesome ender named renew U Yo,...

...who showed me exactly how to do that business. In one summer at a national sales meeting, he took some time and I visited them at his home and so gracious and he taught me everything I needed to know. Well, of course, my first year. I took everything he showed me and it said I can do this better and I did it worse, and so I went back and did it exactly showed it to me and I got the results that he got as like one. Are One of our top sales ups at the company and it taught me this phrase that I used with my people all the time is, why would I choosel attire out of the Rock in front of me when there's one on the rack right next door? It's so like, just use what people already do. Don't make it up yourself because you'll screw it up because you don't know enough to make it better. Yet you know what I mean, right. And then the last one is, you know, as became, you know, sales leader, I was got an email from a guy that was moaning and complaining about an initiative that was running, which, you know, glad now, as a leader, glad for that kind of feedback, but as a young leader I was pissed because this guy was all complaint and always moaning. Right, like I thought, ever, all my crap was hot. So like why you doing this and give me this feedback, and I wrote an email to my my boss, the VP of sales, and I said, Hey, you know what I need to do? This guy's a winder, you know, I'm tired of it. Blah, blah, Blah Wall. Guess what? I didn't hit forward, I hit reply. Oh yeah, and I had typed in my boss as email dress at the top, obviously, and he is a marked did you mean to send this to mic and I was like no, I sure did not. And so I had to have that hard conversation and in that conversation that Rep, who was a great guy, show me how a piece of junk manager I was. And so I went back to school, hit the books hard and you know, that helped me become a greater manager. So those are three stories of like three transitions in my career that really, you know, I use to this day to be successful, or at least try to be excellent. Excellent. Those are great. Thank you. So for our our listeners. You don't know a lot about outreach. How about a little background on kind of what the company does in your rule? They're yeah, so it's very simple. Is There's this unfulfilled promise of crm that can be labeled with a single phrase, system of record and that's where, like, all this data should go and seales people should use it to put all this date in so you can get all these insides out to help you run the business better. But unfortunately what's happened is is crm's have not made good on these promises because it's just not a place where a rep can do action. So our reaches a system of action. It lays on top of the system of record, on top of sales force or whatever ceremy use. That feeds it all of this data so that you can make great insights, but is a great place for a rep to act, so they can, you know, make their emails, make their phone calls, they can set up their sales processes, they can see what's going on with their pipeline, they can do all of these things on top of sales force. That allows the system of record to still be a great place for leaders to get insights and to pull the reports that you need, but that the rep can act and kind of see how they're doing specifically with their kind of outreach and their...

...prospecting and their pipeline management so that they can get better results. You know, think of it like a kind of your sales assistant. So if every time I called you, Chad, and you didn't either pick up or you kind of like blew me off, or we had we didn't come to a conclusion in the conversation, the schedule, the next steps, but that assistant will come into the conversation and email and call you until we got those next steps ironed out. That's kind of what outreach does on the back end. It is it automates things as a system of action where your rep can can do the things that they need to do to win. It's an amazing tool and, like I said, you know, I mentioned before we started recording, it's one that I have referred clients towards many times because that it allows it allows action at scale as well. Right, and because a great memory tool. You don't have to remember how it I said that email that that guy three days ago, four days ago? Yeah, I'm not smart enough to remember that crap. I remember I found out a long time ago. You know, it's funny. I read this book called getting things done by David Allen and he makes this also some point that the brain is meant to have ideas, not to hold them in. Most of those people, unfortunately, their brain is claud with all the things are remembering to do, so they're not having these ideas that help them get through the decisionmakers and get the deals done and overcome the problem in their and their sales cycles. So outreach can like help you with that. You don't have to remember stuff as much that you can just have awesome ideas that help you get more money. And what was it that attracted you to outreach? You two over two years ago when you landed there. Yeah, so I was running a sales team of about ten or twelve inside people in ten or twelve field sales reps, and I was meeting with one of my field sales reps in a Hampton and in northern Virginia and we would had rented a conference room and I drew on a Whiteboard a series of touch points that happened at a specific tempo, it's, in order to get more meetings for this rap. And so when I did that it kind of dawned. I mean, like this is how I've always worked but, like most people, can't like keep up with the process, and so I started going out and looking for a tool that could not only tell me if my emails were effective, but could manage this kind of multi step, multi channeled process that I know it takes to win. And so I found outreach and I started talking to the CEO and he not kind of became buddies and we started having long conversations in the night. And so one day I went to my wife and I said, Hey, listen, this is a future of sales. Like I can get every rep on my team to work the way that I know it takes to work to win, and if the way I think is wrong, I can, you know, stick and move to get to the one, the way that does win. And you know my wife, you know, bless her heart, she's awesome. She'sa go for it. I got four kids, so that was no small decision and wow. But yeah, when on a hundred percent commission and blew it out, you know, it just caught on like wildfire and you know, had a compelling story to tell as an individual contributor and as a leader, and you know, we just kind of cranked it out until we got enough money to hire some real sales reps. I understand how that works.

So we were preparing for the interview. There's some focal points that you passed over right. And there's one and actually a couple that stuck out to me and I really like to unpack kind of that perspective, that that the Reps Ren executive shouldn't allow the reps to select the accounts they prospect into or that they put into the crm. I was one of if you kind of unpack that a little bit for me. Yeah, so there's kind of two types of general buckets of sales shops. Now there's the end to end, which is more traditional what I grew up been, probably what you grew up in, where you know you do your own prospecting, you know you hunted down and you kill it and you eat what you kill, and so you know, that type of person is very busy and I guarantee the last thing that they're thinking about is how do I get a high quality account into my pipeline? What they're thinking about is how do I get anything into my pipe right? And then there's the new school shop, which has a division of Labor or specialization of roles, which has like an str function or a function ahead of the closer that is booking them with meetings. That is typically an entry level sales position. So the question I asked myself when we started careering. Now each was do I want entry level salespeople and or people that are full cycle sales reps that are super busy to determining the future of the company? And if you's, what is more important than the accounts that enter in your pipeline? Really nothing. Knowing those accounts determine whether they're going to renew. They determine how side that big the contracts going to be, how difficult to sale cycle is going to be, what is the size of the prize? Like? All of that is determined by what you put in. You know, inputs equal outputs. Garbage and garbage out right, and most of the companies I've worked for, garbage will always went in, and so it was kind of garbage out. And so what we decided, as we put processes in place, invested in operations that have an awesome director of sales ops that's just, you know, the man, and we developed the way to like mine accounts at a Linkedin, enrich them with data and then, you know, just tear them out, and that allows us to put only quality stuff into the very top of the funnel for our sales rep so that they can only go after accounts that we know our great accounts that we want to do business with. And so do you have your team setup? So the OPS puts the quality in and then you have people that are going out and using tools like outreach to get those meetings and push them through the funnel? Do you have the traditional huge kill where do you have how do you have it broken up? I guess I should say yeah, are so. We're of a specialization of roles. Type of shops have an stur function and they get fed accounts by sales ops. And here's the other thing. Is is sales reps would always tell me any more accounts, anymore accounts. You don't need more accounts, you need to have better messaging or right. If I give you six hundred accounts that are pre vetted enriched, I understand the tearing of them. I know exactly that they should be customers of mine. They're just not yet. Then it's your job. I'm paying you to figure out how to get me those six hundred customers. I'm not paying you to give you two hundred new accounts every month because you're messaging sub jacked up in your process.

Is Object that you can't get into them right. So that's what we do. We give them a high quality and then we give them a great tool and outreach, we give them great data with Zoom Info and we say go, go, do it. So if you got a machine, if you got an engine like outreach, you got great fuel, you just great contact data and great accounts, then all you have to do is have great conversations, which only a person can do, and so we let all the automation and all the data tools do everything up front so that our people can have great conversations every day to move deals into our pipeline. Excellent, excellent. One of the things that you mentioned was the need for a standardized process and you mentioned that, you know, train on the art of Art of prospect and rely on the signs of the automation. I'm kind of curious how you arrive at that. Where did that come from? If you can give me an example where this is, you know, it really kind of cemented as the right approach for you. Yeah, so again, you know, everything's come on born out of my experience and my headaches as a seller. You know, and listen, every person in the world, I believe, can be a decent prospector, because it's it's mundane, mechanical, robotic monkey work. You know, I see, see the account. Here's the three people I should call on the count. I'm going to call each of them that. I'm going to send each of an email. I'm going to wait a day, they're going to collect them, I'm going to go connect with them on Linkedin that, I'm going to wait few days and going to going to call them again, like it's just rents, and repeat over and over and over again. It's. So that's the science part. This the mechanical part. Like you have to have machines do that if you want to keep pace with the companies that are that have machines doing that. Like you know, I can look at other people in my industry that don't use a tool like ours and like they cannot outwork me. And like that was always one of my special sauces as a sales rep like nobody out worked me. My Dad taught me how to work hard from a young boy and like I still I teach my kids to work hard. And but but now some punk that's twenty two years old, right out of column, cannot work me with the help of a machine and so that's when he decided. You know what, like we have to build as much of the science or that mechanical robotic part of sales into the tool, into the machine, about reach, into that sales engagement platform, so that we can free people up to do what only humans can do, which is have great, engaging conversations, build trust and relationships, offer solutions and then to convince people that why those solutions work for them. You know, only a seller can do that, a great seller can do that, but the mechanical part, the machine can take care of with the guidance of a human. Excellent, excellent. We also kind of email back forth on time, blocking them. A big, big fan and of this I'm amazed that how many people still don't do it, even with the help of all of the automation the science that's out there. You think that would become kind of a secondary you know, it's just part of the DNA. I mean you have the tools which help reinforce that and not a lot of people do it. So I'm just kind of curious how, if you have customers, then when you work with your customers or clients, how do you help them understand the importance that and best practices for, you know, making sure that's part of the DNA of their sales approach. It's very...

...difficult to help the REP level become that type of a worker when the leadership isn't completely in tune with how it works and so and they're not bought into that system. So typically what we do is in inside our tool we're lucky we actually have each hour of the day as a block on a heat map, and then we can show you when your people are making most of their phone calls and when most of your connects are happening. And so it's really easy to look at those two charts, one over top of the other, and see your people make tend to make a lot of phone calls in time blocks or in hours of the day when people don't answer the phone and so like. I don't know if it's like some kind of subconscious thing that settlers have to deal with, like with fear of the phone, and so they like their brain makes them call between eleven and twelve, which is the worst time of day to call, you know. But when you start to show them like listen, this is where your effort is, but here's where your payoff is. It's easier to align, to say, you know what, guys, everybody needs to make calls from zero am to nine am and from thirty two, five or whatever blocks of time work best, because our connect rates are twice as high. Then twice as many people will pick up the phone if we call during those times, and so that means you could book twice as many meetings and you know that means you're going to get paid twice as much. So that's what it comes down to. Is, as you know, you have to make the connection to the leader to understand the inefficiencies of how they're working and then to give them like a very simple, like five minute pep talk, tweet that they're sales that will motivate their sales team to work in a new way. And so, you know, that's one way that we do if we have a great tool that like makes it available to have that conversation. So when you have your team's you got your cadences or your tempo outline and outreach and it's, you know, email, call, call, whatever that may be, the tools that are they're phenomenal for helping do that. I'm curious with your own teams, how you help them when they make that connection. Like how do you help them or inspire them or give them a structure for having those great conversations? So do you mean how do we structure our sequences so that we get the conversations, or how do we train them to have great conversations once they get somebody on the phone or set a meeting? Yeah, once the other the ladder, once they get them on the phone, how do you train them to have a great conversation? Because that, I mean, that's a little bit more towards the art side of it, right. Yeah, well, I'm really lucky, you know are we're a sales company. Any that sells a sales software to salespeople, it might I am can't execute on a very high, like top one percent level. Then like really, what am I selling, right, you know. And so my company, our CEO, Mani Medina, in my boss, Matt Milling, invested in our team by giving us a director of field readiness very early on, and his name is Jerry far and Jerry...

...soul job is to help us have better conversations and understand where we need to train people to have better conversation. So the first part is is we have to decide what great looks like. So we find out what great looks like and then we show our people what great looks like. Then we show them this is the area of the sales cycle where great can help you out the most. And so now we've got, like, you know, a picture of what great looks like. We have, we're able to quantify what an improvement and a specific area the sales cycle will garner, and then we just set up, like you know, the right kind of training tempo and the right kind of, you know, feedback loops to help people like make that behavioral change, because, you know, most salespeople confuse success with comfort, meaning if they're comfortable doing something, they think it works, and that's you know, that's not the case, right. Those things are mutually exclusive, and so what you have to do is you have to get sales people to understand, like, just because you think it works doesn't mean it does work. So let's show you what does work. Let's show you the improve it that you can guess you can get over that pain threshold of making a behavioral change excellent, so that it's odd to hear about the investment and director of readiness so early. I mean I reach is growing, from what I've seen, growing very aggressively. How do you work with that director of sales enable when a readiness so like you know, becausegether weekly and talking about what's working or not, like how much do you use your own tools in terms of eating your own dog food to come up with this is all right, this is the next evolution of how we have to prep our people. It depends on what kind of what part. Like we use a lot of sales force reports to determine, like, where a leak Gidge is happening in the funnel and in the pipeline. Right. And so once we had a fine area like, oh, our discovery calls are only converting at thirty five percent. We think we could get that up to forty two percent if we really put some effort in there. And that's in the downstream. Effect of that is x millions of dollars extra a year. Right. So then what we would do is, once we get the final link and our leak and see the check what the change could bring about, then we work together like typically what all these I'll say, hey, this is how I think about handling it. He'll go out and do the research and give me like a best practice and kind of melted in with my style. Then we like review it together and we have what we called a sales excellence advisory panel seat and then we have three or four of our best reps review that make sure it's presentable for the rest of the team and then we were all out out to the rest of the team. So that's kind of like the process of how we work. But during the hey we're going to launch something and let's work it out, and then until the first measurement cycle, like we don't communicate a lot after that. Like he's doing his job. I trust him. He's world class. I don't need to like medal in how he's doing his trainings. All I need to know is, like what do we decide on? An agree on would work best and how is it moving the needle, if if at all, and then when it changes we need to make if any. And so that's kind of how we work. Is, like we said,...

...he and I set the ball emotion together, then he rolls with it until this time for us to take a measurement to see how things are going. Okay, excellent, excellent. So when when you look at you know some kind of get pivot here a little bit and focus more on the kind of what you are focused on with with your team's when you look at kind of the second half of two thousand and seventeen, you know what is the top business subjective you're aiming at with your teams. So, Chad, my reaction and your reaction to outreach, I'm guessing, is similar. Like my initial reaction was like, holy smokes, yeah, very much so, yeah, this change there, like it is jaw dropping, like okay, we're five minutes him, but like I don't need to hear anymore, like what do I need to do to get my hands on this? And, oddly enough, like I don't feel like we get that reaction enough in our discovery and I don't know, first we're not connecting pain. I don't know. You know, we're trying to figure out exactly why it's maybe it's just the you know, people are jaded to the sales experience and they're just not willing to give that kype type of reaction. I'm not sure. But like my one of the main things I'm working on right now is I want, I think everybody should leave a discovery initial conversation without rich being like oh my gosh, like get me in now and let me see if this works for me as good as they say it us right. Yeah, it's an amazing tool. I'm really kind of surprised. That's an interesting challenge. It's one of the kind of surprises me a little bit because it is I mean, anybody's carried a bag and who's had the prospecting in their DNA and wants, you know, you're driven to do sales that tool. I mean that freed up so much of my time, like you said earlier, to have just great conversation. So I'm curious, the interesting to see how that plays out. I'm it's surprised that that's the reaction here. You'RE gonna yeah, I think there's a lot of fear, you know, Fud if you're a certainty, doubt out in the market about, you know, giving too much control over to automation. And that's why, you know, if you have a great tool, it's wide and deep, meaning like you can use it for everything from complete automation, we're literally your sales team doesn't even know they're using it, to complete personalization where your sales team is crafting every single message. You can use it all along that spectrum, but it has to go deep, like it has to adjust to the sales process and then it has to like cover every use case that a sales organization has inside that process. And so I don't know if it's because they like in the past the tools have been so narrow and so shallow that like they don't really make a difference. I don't know if it's because of that unfitfield promise we talked about earlier with crm. You know, they feel like sales forth should be doing that for them and it is not. So why would this tool work? That's the only thing I can think of. Well, I know, I mean I think it's. I mean I actually I just had a conversation so the CO worker. I have a different set up than they do, just based on the way that we're structured, and we were talking about sales force and I said, you know, look sales worse. Is Great if you're running a, you know, global enterprise and you need someplace to put all the infot but but it's not actionable, as you said, in my opinion, and sometimes you...

...can be a little clunky. U X isn't you know, a streamlined as a journey. But that unflfhill promise, you know, is I think, yeah, maybe on something there, but that's a that's a it's definitely a big one. So when you when you look back over, if it so we just looked at, you know kind of what you're wrestling with for the next six months, for months, when you look back over the last year, you know, what are you most proud of your team, you know, stepping up and doing or the evolution that they've gone through? You know, what is it that you're the most proud of for them achieving? Well, we tripled on our team in the last actually, probably quad groupled our team now in the last year with our last class. And for me what's most important is I don't think I'm the smartest cat in the room and have to stuff I've learned. Somebody like beat it into my head or some rep showed it to me and like I stole it right, right, like you know, I haven't had that many original thoughts in my life. And so and so for me what's really important is, as we grow out and continue with the momentum of success that we have, is for us to feel like that when we come into a meeting or we have a discussion with a peer or another leader or whatever that like we all have this hat on that says my job is to contribute to the conversation and to make things better and not to slough off, not to just go into my corner and do my thing, but to have like everybody giving feedback, everybody inderstanding and like not every idea is smart, and just having this camaraderie where, like I can go to like one of my best reps, a Brian Gerard, a pleasant rich at there in Glennie, and they yo coom and I can go to those guys they say to them, Hey, I'm having this problem, like take a week to think about it and tell me how you would solve it, and then I can do that with two people. We come together, you know, and like always say, like we trumps me. Right, we working together will always trump me. It always beat me. So don't let me be out there, like let's be weak. And that's the main thing that like, that's what I'm most proud of, is I feel like we're all connected and you would say we're like a family, but you know, I think that that term is overused. Your family's your family, like you know your kids and your wife needs. It's a hollow term. You can't have like your basketball team family and your work family. Like how many family? A guy can only have one fan. Most of us are screwing that up right. But, like, I do want. I do want that have a feeling of camaraderie and like the dude and the trench next to me is far and at the enemies head because he wants me to live. You know I mean, that's the kind of come it's. I'm proud that we've been able to maintain that as we've grown out. Yeah, the sales culture is critical, so I'm glad to hear that that's a place you guys are focusing. I've seen some companies where, you know, they still burning churn. They look at the sales team as disposable, which is unfortunate, especially as technology kind of continues to gray, you know, blur the lines. This we want a sales upt. You're doing what the text you're doing, having those great conversations becomes even more valuable. So having that camaraderie to be...

...able to selfanalyze and provide candid feedback in you know the way, this's not going to piss somebody off. I mean that's that's a powerful culture. Yeah, listen, I'm not, like I said, I'm not smart enough to figure it all out on my own, nor do I want to. I just want to win. About me win. So when you're when you look, you know, into the future, you know there's all these sales trends that are going on. Ai. Obviously there's still seems, blows my mind. Still seems to be this debate about his cold calling dead or not? Or you've got some saying social selling is the answer. I'm kind of curious. What trends are you most interested in seeing play out and are there any that you, you know, are focused on enough that you're actually doing prep you know, preparing for? If so, I think that following trends is dangerous. And maybe this is the old school guy and me and the you know, resistance to change with the way that I like to look at it is is sales is like, especially getting meetings and managing your communications like a three legged stool. You have to be great at phone calls, you have to be great at email and you have to be great at social touches. If you're not great at all, three then you're you're going to fall off the stool. And so what happens is people all run to the phone because cold calling is, you know, the new hot thing, and so, you know, then everybody's calling it. Well, when everybody starts calling, like the social channel start to open up because they're not as crowded. So everybody runs the social, then everybody runs the email. This this pendentum constantly swinging between these three points. And for me, rather than ride the pendulum and either trailing it or, if I'm lucky enough to be ahead of it or whatever, I just rather be like kick ass at all three all the time, and then I don't have to worry about where the pendulum is. You know, right now we book I think I'll last talk to my director sales development, is a complete Stud Steve Ross. He said that I think fifty five percent of our meetings are booked on the phone, forty five percent, forty percent are booked the email and five percent are booked like social. So you know, that's how you know we're all cold outbound here. That's no inbound, that's just like cold outbound. Never heard of us. Type of meetings book but that's the that's the what we're seeing right now. But again, like, I want that five percent, so I'm not going to quit doing the social stuff. You know what I mean right? Yeah, it's that. It's the building of that cadence. Is that. It's the use of all the tools in front of you, in front of somebody. I can understand seeing, you know, not wanting to follow the Trans without a doubt. I mass. I've seen it with teams that I've run. There's this desire and I don't know where it comes from quite right, because I didn't learn growing up with sales. Is never meant to be easy. It's not. I mean there's a reason there's a risk reward on the compensation side, right that it's to contact sport. A lot of times you got to really be focused on it. So those when I see reps kind of jump on the quickest trend and just focus on that, that becomes kind of a warning flag for me. I'm curious Ho how you work with your guy, how you build that into your process and work with your teams to avoid...

...that, to to get them focused on a consistent, multifaceted approach to prospectings. That something you find that you've weeded out in your teems, you know, basin, or how you're hiring or how you're training them, or is this? Is it a constant battle? It's not a battle at all, quite honestly. Like that's what our tool does, is we only make available to them the way that we want them to work. So that's the only way they can work. If they won't, if they work outside the system, like we've had a few people like go like try their own thing. They're so much less productive than somebody that's in the system that they immediately self correct. And so, you know, like part of what we hier for is like can you and are you willing to work the system every day, because our system is very predictable. You. I mean, I know if I put a hundred people into this sequence and series of touch points over three weeks that you know, twenty three percent of those people are going to reply to me. Thirty percent of those people are going to be positive replies. So I'm going to get six or seven meetings out of every hundred people I put in there over a three week period. So my motivation every day should be, how can I get another hundred people in here right so I can have a person, you know, putting more people into the system to get these predictable outcomes that we know what happened, or I can have somebody that's just trying to figure everything out, and I that's what I call the black box of sales. That person has no idea what they're doing. Nobody knows what they're doing. There's just some inputs that happen and then there's these magical outputs can pop out the end. And when you're like that, that get, guess what, like you don't know what you're doing right, you don't know what you're doing wrong, and so you can't, like, get better and you can't continue to do the good things that you do. And so versus ours is all the years of the box are visible. You can look in the black box, you can see how everything works. You can completely understand everything. And so something's broken. It's very simple to determine what the you know what the cause is. It's either the input suck or the conversation sucks at the very end right, but everything in the middle is always the same. So fucking cut out like figuring that out. I can cut out managing that is. So you know, that's once people see the power of that and sometimes, you know, with the beat people into submission for the first couple months or here, but once they see it, like all of them come back and they're like, you know what, I like, that was stupid. I wasted my first two months trying to do it my way when like, if I just do the system, it works. So excellent. Okay, well, let's change the direction a little bit. We ask any or towards the end of everything, you ask kind of to standard questions, and the first to simply. I mean, you are revenue executive, right, which I guess makes you a prospect for other sales professionals and and in that position, I'm always interested to hear kind of how someone that you don't have a relationship with today, don't know, how would they get your attention and build credibility in a way that would, you know, inspire you...

...to want to engage with them. I'll tell you one thing. That doesn't work if you try to tell me that, hey, I went to Penn State University. Great to see that. You're playing the buck. guys out, delete that crap right there. I don't give a you know, I don't care that you could look on Linkednna see where I went to college. You know, this is what I want to know. An email or a voicemail or social connectionist says simply this. I see your VP of sales. These are the threes problems that we help vp's of sales solved. Would you be interested in seeing how we solve them? If I were like to any one of those three issues, I will take the meeting every time. It's like that simple. That is those a very simple acause I'm curious. You know you've got to be reached out to quite a bit. How often do you actually see it that simple? Every once in a while, like I have a couple guys that are really good and you know they'll come in and you know, like the guys from Zoom Info. You know there are data provider, but they the way they sold me was, I thought, really, really effective, really masterful honestly. And you know he came in. He's like, these are the three problems. You're not getting enough phone dials. Connect. Yep, not doing that. Your ups are frustrated because their dialing all the time and not cop talking to Google. Yep, that's me. And you know you need more meetings from your phone call time because you're spend so much time phone. Thank you very much. Meeting Tomorrow. Let's do it. And then they came to show me how to do it, you know. So that's like there's not many people out there doing it. Most of them are doing, you know, some kind of long email that, you know, I don't read more than a quarter of. You know. It's just, you know, here's the difference, though. Chat is like if you have visibility to how your process works and you can track, like I'm reaching out to this industry and this persona, or this market segment and this persona, then you can start to see, like this messaging works with this industry but not this other one, and this, you know, other messaging works with this persona in that industry but not this other one in that same industry, and you can really start to get granular and how you would attack things because you can see exactly what works. And so, you know, that's kind of where what we've defaulted to. But for me personally, like, I don't see very many people do it very well, and that's not a dig it's just, you know, sales is a hard job, like you said. Somebody probably showed them the wrong way to do it at the beginning. Right, right. Okay, so last question we ask. We call it our acceleration inside. So if there's one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional service people, one piece of advice that you know, you kind of go down as being known for, they would help them hit their targets, blow out their numbers and be more successful. What would it be and why? Yeah, the number one characteristic I hire for Chad is curiosity. Like, if you in a sales call, are talking to me and you just seem curious, I am pulled into your web and I think that that's how most people are, and the reason is, because it's very simple, is curiosity is the antidote for selfishness, and selfishness doesn't...

...allow you to create trust and it makes the conversation one sided. The minute you become curious, what you start to do is you start to get the focus off of you and on to the person you're talking to. Like if we went through your career and I started asking you, well, why did you decide to take that job as your second job, like, what did your manager do? How did they get you? You're going to beat immediately drawn into the conversation, you're going to trust more and you're going to release more information, and it's nothing more than me. I don't care where the conversation is going. I'm not trying to lead it in any direction. All I'm am is I'm just curious as to, like, how your brain works. What do you think? What was your reaction to these things? How do you feel pain in that situation? Or how do you how do you not feel pain? Is So to me, like curiosity is the key to sales. If you can be curious, then that unlocks all of the information you need to do what you need to do to close a deal. Excellent. Yeah, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. It is one, probably the only thing I've ever seen. Overcome that that default setting of head. I want to run in the door and tell you about this cool thing that I do, without ever taking the time to understand the other person's perspective. You know, yeah, what you're doing may not be what they're looking for or may not be a problem that they're experiencing right now. Curiosity, that's a great one. Thank you very much for that. That was that was great. All right, everybody. So that does it for this episode of the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. Again, please check us out at be to be REV EXECTCOM for the blog post. This interview be up there as well access to everyone else that we've interviewed and others that are coming up here in the near future. Mark, I can't think you're enough for the time to this has been an extreme pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having me to appreciate it. I don't no worries. Again, thanks everybody for listening and a mark for the valuable one side. Until next time. We Value Prom solutions with shooting, your team nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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