The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Mark Kosoglow on Why Sales Reps Shouldn’t Select Their Own Accounts

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“The more complex you make the sale, the less success you’re going to have.

As Mark Kosoglow, VP of Sales at Outreach.io, puts it, “humans suck at making decisions.” Therefore, the way you sell has to be focused and value-driven.

In this episode, Mark shares some of Outreach’s greatest successes and obstacles, as well as why revenue executives shouldn’t allow their reps to select the accounts they prospect into.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Are you concerned about hitting your revenuetargets this month, quarter or year? Your answer is value prime solutions,a sales training and marketing optimization company leveraging the value selling framework. visit wwwdot value prime solutionscom and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BBrevenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales andmarketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or toolsand resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth inthree, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, chat senders and for those that don't have time tolisten to the entire episode, as always, feel free to check us out atbe to be REV exectcom or, course, on Itunes, were viewersalways appreciated. Today we have with US Mark Cazegilo, VP of sales withoutreach dot ioh now any of our listeners who work with me or anybody who'sbeen in classes? No, I'm a huge fan of what outreach is doing. Social we no surprise and a little more excited the normal to talk tomark. So, mark, I want to first thank you very much fortaking the time and welcome to the show. Thanks man. What up? Sowhen we start these conversations we like to try and do our best tokind of front load some of the value for our listeners and I like toask her guests. You know, if you look back over your career,was there a defining moment or something that happened that you know, give youa lesson that you continue to refer to, to go back to day in andday out? And if so, what was that? How did itaffect your kind of career at your dectory? Well, chat, I was thinkingabout this after you set me the note earlier this morning or late lastnight, and I have three stories. So I can give you three andtwo minutes. I need you one and two minutes. You get the PI. Let's go with three. Let's see what happens. storry cool. Firstone was I was selling to schools and you know we've all had kids orbeen those kids ourselves that sold candy bars and if he sold ten candy barsyou got this little widget and if you sold k t bars you got thatlittle widget. Or I was the guy that organized all that and help schoolsraise money for field trips and playgrounds and things like that. And the littlewidgets, little prizes that you'd get was part of the plan of like Hey, I'm going to go do a bunch of stuff and I'm going to getall these different toys and things and I'm going to let the people that runthe fundraisers at the school pick what they want. As I created this pointsystem, like you could buy this many for this point and this on,all this kind of stuff to help them kind of customize it so that,because I know the kids better than I do right, it was a completedisaster. I learned in that moment that the more complex you make the sale, the less success you're going to have, and that's why I, you know, I like to present one choice at a time, because humans suckat making decisions. As a first one, the second one was I had aawesome ender named renew U Yo,...

...who showed me exactly how to dothat business. In one summer at a national sales meeting, he took sometime and I visited them at his home and so gracious and he taught meeverything I needed to know. Well, of course, my first year.I took everything he showed me and it said I can do this better andI did it worse, and so I went back and did it exactly showedit to me and I got the results that he got as like one.Are One of our top sales ups at the company and it taught me thisphrase that I used with my people all the time is, why would Ichoosel attire out of the Rock in front of me when there's one on therack right next door? It's so like, just use what people already do.Don't make it up yourself because you'll screw it up because you don't knowenough to make it better. Yet you know what I mean, right.And then the last one is, you know, as became, you know, sales leader, I was got an email from a guy that was moaningand complaining about an initiative that was running, which, you know, glad now, as a leader, glad for that kind of feedback, but asa young leader I was pissed because this guy was all complaint and always moaning. Right, like I thought, ever, all my crap was hot. Solike why you doing this and give me this feedback, and I wrotean email to my my boss, the VP of sales, and I said, Hey, you know what I need to do? This guy's a winder, you know, I'm tired of it. Blah, blah, Blah Wall.Guess what? I didn't hit forward, I hit reply. Oh yeah,and I had typed in my boss as email dress at the top,obviously, and he is a marked did you mean to send this to micand I was like no, I sure did not. And so I hadto have that hard conversation and in that conversation that Rep, who was agreat guy, show me how a piece of junk manager I was. Andso I went back to school, hit the books hard and you know,that helped me become a greater manager. So those are three stories of likethree transitions in my career that really, you know, I use to thisday to be successful, or at least try to be excellent. Excellent.Those are great. Thank you. So for our our listeners. You don'tknow a lot about outreach. How about a little background on kind of whatthe company does in your rule? They're yeah, so it's very simple.Is There's this unfulfilled promise of crm that can be labeled with a single phrase, system of record and that's where, like, all this data should goand seales people should use it to put all this date in so you canget all these insides out to help you run the business better. But unfortunatelywhat's happened is is crm's have not made good on these promises because it's justnot a place where a rep can do action. So our reaches a systemof action. It lays on top of the system of record, on topof sales force or whatever ceremy use. That feeds it all of this dataso that you can make great insights, but is a great place for arep to act, so they can, you know, make their emails,make their phone calls, they can set up their sales processes, they cansee what's going on with their pipeline, they can do all of these thingson top of sales force. That allows the system of record to still bea great place for leaders to get insights and to pull the reports that youneed, but that the rep can act and kind of see how they're doingspecifically with their kind of outreach and their...

...prospecting and their pipeline management so thatthey can get better results. You know, think of it like a kind ofyour sales assistant. So if every time I called you, Chad,and you didn't either pick up or you kind of like blew me off,or we had we didn't come to a conclusion in the conversation, the schedule, the next steps, but that assistant will come into the conversation and emailand call you until we got those next steps ironed out. That's kind ofwhat outreach does on the back end. It is it automates things as asystem of action where your rep can can do the things that they need todo to win. It's an amazing tool and, like I said, youknow, I mentioned before we started recording, it's one that I have referred clientstowards many times because that it allows it allows action at scale as well. Right, and because a great memory tool. You don't have to rememberhow it I said that email that that guy three days ago, four daysago? Yeah, I'm not smart enough to remember that crap. I rememberI found out a long time ago. You know, it's funny. Iread this book called getting things done by David Allen and he makes this alsosome point that the brain is meant to have ideas, not to hold themin. Most of those people, unfortunately, their brain is claud with all thethings are remembering to do, so they're not having these ideas that helpthem get through the decisionmakers and get the deals done and overcome the problem intheir and their sales cycles. So outreach can like help you with that.You don't have to remember stuff as much that you can just have awesome ideasthat help you get more money. And what was it that attracted you tooutreach? You two over two years ago when you landed there. Yeah,so I was running a sales team of about ten or twelve inside people inten or twelve field sales reps, and I was meeting with one of myfield sales reps in a Hampton and in northern Virginia and we would had renteda conference room and I drew on a Whiteboard a series of touch points thathappened at a specific tempo, it's, in order to get more meetings forthis rap. And so when I did that it kind of dawned. Imean, like this is how I've always worked but, like most people,can't like keep up with the process, and so I started going out andlooking for a tool that could not only tell me if my emails were effective, but could manage this kind of multi step, multi channeled process that Iknow it takes to win. And so I found outreach and I started talkingto the CEO and he not kind of became buddies and we started having longconversations in the night. And so one day I went to my wife andI said, Hey, listen, this is a future of sales. LikeI can get every rep on my team to work the way that I knowit takes to work to win, and if the way I think is wrong, I can, you know, stick and move to get to the one, the way that does win. And you know my wife, you know, bless her heart, she's awesome. She'sa go for it. I gotfour kids, so that was no small decision and wow. But yeah,when on a hundred percent commission and blew it out, you know, itjust caught on like wildfire and you know, had a compelling story to tell asan individual contributor and as a leader, and you know, we just kindof cranked it out until we got enough money to hire some real salesreps. I understand how that works.

So we were preparing for the interview. There's some focal points that you passed over right. And there's one andactually a couple that stuck out to me and I really like to unpack kindof that perspective, that that the Reps Ren executive shouldn't allow the reps toselect the accounts they prospect into or that they put into the crm. Iwas one of if you kind of unpack that a little bit for me.Yeah, so there's kind of two types of general buckets of sales shops.Now there's the end to end, which is more traditional what I grew upbeen, probably what you grew up in, where you know you do your ownprospecting, you know you hunted down and you kill it and you eatwhat you kill, and so you know, that type of person is very busyand I guarantee the last thing that they're thinking about is how do Iget a high quality account into my pipeline? What they're thinking about is how doI get anything into my pipe right? And then there's the new school shop, which has a division of Labor or specialization of roles, which haslike an str function or a function ahead of the closer that is booking themwith meetings. That is typically an entry level sales position. So the questionI asked myself when we started careering. Now each was do I want entrylevel salespeople and or people that are full cycle sales reps that are super busyto determining the future of the company? And if you's, what is moreimportant than the accounts that enter in your pipeline? Really nothing. Knowing thoseaccounts determine whether they're going to renew. They determine how side that big thecontracts going to be, how difficult to sale cycle is going to be,what is the size of the prize? Like? All of that is determinedby what you put in. You know, inputs equal outputs. Garbage and garbageout right, and most of the companies I've worked for, garbage willalways went in, and so it was kind of garbage out. And sowhat we decided, as we put processes in place, invested in operations thathave an awesome director of sales ops that's just, you know, the man, and we developed the way to like mine accounts at a Linkedin, enrichthem with data and then, you know, just tear them out, and thatallows us to put only quality stuff into the very top of the funnelfor our sales rep so that they can only go after accounts that we knowour great accounts that we want to do business with. And so do youhave your team setup? So the OPS puts the quality in and then youhave people that are going out and using tools like outreach to get those meetingsand push them through the funnel? Do you have the traditional huge kill wheredo you have how do you have it broken up? I guess I shouldsay yeah, are so. We're of a specialization of roles. Type ofshops have an stur function and they get fed accounts by sales ops. Andhere's the other thing. Is is sales reps would always tell me any moreaccounts, anymore accounts. You don't need more accounts, you need to havebetter messaging or right. If I give you six hundred accounts that are prevetted enriched, I understand the tearing of them. I know exactly that theyshould be customers of mine. They're just not yet. Then it's your job. I'm paying you to figure out how to get me those six hundred customers. I'm not paying you to give you two hundred new accounts every month becauseyou're messaging sub jacked up in your process.

Is Object that you can't get intothem right. So that's what we do. We give them a highquality and then we give them a great tool and outreach, we give themgreat data with Zoom Info and we say go, go, do it.So if you got a machine, if you got an engine like outreach,you got great fuel, you just great contact data and great accounts, thenall you have to do is have great conversations, which only a person cando, and so we let all the automation and all the data tools doeverything up front so that our people can have great conversations every day to movedeals into our pipeline. Excellent, excellent. One of the things that you mentionedwas the need for a standardized process and you mentioned that, you know, train on the art of Art of prospect and rely on the signs ofthe automation. I'm kind of curious how you arrive at that. Where didthat come from? If you can give me an example where this is,you know, it really kind of cemented as the right approach for you.Yeah, so again, you know, everything's come on born out of myexperience and my headaches as a seller. You know, and listen, everyperson in the world, I believe, can be a decent prospector, becauseit's it's mundane, mechanical, robotic monkey work. You know, I see, see the account. Here's the three people I should call on the count. I'm going to call each of them that. I'm going to send eachof an email. I'm going to wait a day, they're going to collectthem, I'm going to go connect with them on Linkedin that, I'm goingto wait few days and going to going to call them again, like it'sjust rents, and repeat over and over and over again. It's. Sothat's the science part. This the mechanical part. Like you have to havemachines do that if you want to keep pace with the companies that are thathave machines doing that. Like you know, I can look at other people inmy industry that don't use a tool like ours and like they cannot outworkme. And like that was always one of my special sauces as a salesrep like nobody out worked me. My Dad taught me how to work hardfrom a young boy and like I still I teach my kids to work hard. And but but now some punk that's twenty two years old, right outof column, cannot work me with the help of a machine and so that'swhen he decided. You know what, like we have to build as muchof the science or that mechanical robotic part of sales into the tool, intothe machine, about reach, into that sales engagement platform, so that wecan free people up to do what only humans can do, which is havegreat, engaging conversations, build trust and relationships, offer solutions and then toconvince people that why those solutions work for them. You know, only aseller can do that, a great seller can do that, but the mechanicalpart, the machine can take care of with the guidance of a human.Excellent, excellent. We also kind of email back forth on time, blockingthem. A big, big fan and of this I'm amazed that how manypeople still don't do it, even with the help of all of the automationthe science that's out there. You think that would become kind of a secondaryyou know, it's just part of the DNA. I mean you have thetools which help reinforce that and not a lot of people do it. SoI'm just kind of curious how, if you have customers, then when youwork with your customers or clients, how do you help them understand the importancethat and best practices for, you know, making sure that's part of the DNAof their sales approach. It's very...

...difficult to help the REP level becomethat type of a worker when the leadership isn't completely in tune with how itworks and so and they're not bought into that system. So typically what wedo is in inside our tool we're lucky we actually have each hour of theday as a block on a heat map, and then we can show you whenyour people are making most of their phone calls and when most of yourconnects are happening. And so it's really easy to look at those two charts, one over top of the other, and see your people make tend tomake a lot of phone calls in time blocks or in hours of the daywhen people don't answer the phone and so like. I don't know if it'slike some kind of subconscious thing that settlers have to deal with, like withfear of the phone, and so they like their brain makes them call betweeneleven and twelve, which is the worst time of day to call, youknow. But when you start to show them like listen, this is whereyour effort is, but here's where your payoff is. It's easier to align, to say, you know what, guys, everybody needs to make callsfrom zero am to nine am and from thirty two, five or whatever blocksof time work best, because our connect rates are twice as high. Thentwice as many people will pick up the phone if we call during those times, and so that means you could book twice as many meetings and you knowthat means you're going to get paid twice as much. So that's what itcomes down to. Is, as you know, you have to make theconnection to the leader to understand the inefficiencies of how they're working and then togive them like a very simple, like five minute pep talk, tweet thatthey're sales that will motivate their sales team to work in a new way.And so, you know, that's one way that we do if we havea great tool that like makes it available to have that conversation. So whenyou have your team's you got your cadences or your tempo outline and outreach andit's, you know, email, call, call, whatever that may be,the tools that are they're phenomenal for helping do that. I'm curious withyour own teams, how you help them when they make that connection. Likehow do you help them or inspire them or give them a structure for havingthose great conversations? So do you mean how do we structure our sequences sothat we get the conversations, or how do we train them to have greatconversations once they get somebody on the phone or set a meeting? Yeah,once the other the ladder, once they get them on the phone, howdo you train them to have a great conversation? Because that, I mean, that's a little bit more towards the art side of it, right.Yeah, well, I'm really lucky, you know are we're a sales company. Any that sells a sales software to salespeople, it might I am can'texecute on a very high, like top one percent level. Then like really, what am I selling, right, you know. And so my company, our CEO, Mani Medina, in my boss, Matt Milling, investedin our team by giving us a director of field readiness very early on,and his name is Jerry far and Jerry...

...soul job is to help us havebetter conversations and understand where we need to train people to have better conversation.So the first part is is we have to decide what great looks like.So we find out what great looks like and then we show our people whatgreat looks like. Then we show them this is the area of the salescycle where great can help you out the most. And so now we've got, like, you know, a picture of what great looks like. Wehave, we're able to quantify what an improvement and a specific area the salescycle will garner, and then we just set up, like you know,the right kind of training tempo and the right kind of, you know,feedback loops to help people like make that behavioral change, because, you know, most salespeople confuse success with comfort, meaning if they're comfortable doing something,they think it works, and that's you know, that's not the case,right. Those things are mutually exclusive, and so what you have to dois you have to get sales people to understand, like, just because youthink it works doesn't mean it does work. So let's show you what does work. Let's show you the improve it that you can guess you can getover that pain threshold of making a behavioral change excellent, so that it's oddto hear about the investment and director of readiness so early. I mean Ireach is growing, from what I've seen, growing very aggressively. How do youwork with that director of sales enable when a readiness so like you know, becausegether weekly and talking about what's working or not, like how much doyou use your own tools in terms of eating your own dog food to comeup with this is all right, this is the next evolution of how wehave to prep our people. It depends on what kind of what part.Like we use a lot of sales force reports to determine, like, wherea leak Gidge is happening in the funnel and in the pipeline. Right.And so once we had a fine area like, oh, our discovery callsare only converting at thirty five percent. We think we could get that upto forty two percent if we really put some effort in there. And that'sin the downstream. Effect of that is x millions of dollars extra a year. Right. So then what we would do is, once we get thefinal link and our leak and see the check what the change could bring about, then we work together like typically what all these I'll say, hey,this is how I think about handling it. He'll go out and do the researchand give me like a best practice and kind of melted in with mystyle. Then we like review it together and we have what we called asales excellence advisory panel seat and then we have three or four of our bestreps review that make sure it's presentable for the rest of the team and thenwe were all out out to the rest of the team. So that's kindof like the process of how we work. But during the hey we're going tolaunch something and let's work it out, and then until the first measurement cycle, like we don't communicate a lot after that. Like he's doing hisjob. I trust him. He's world class. I don't need to likemedal in how he's doing his trainings. All I need to know is,like what do we decide on? An agree on would work best and howis it moving the needle, if if at all, and then when itchanges we need to make if any. And so that's kind of how wework. Is, like we said,...

...he and I set the ball emotiontogether, then he rolls with it until this time for us to take ameasurement to see how things are going. Okay, excellent, excellent. Sowhen when you look at you know some kind of get pivot here a littlebit and focus more on the kind of what you are focused on with withyour team's when you look at kind of the second half of two thousand andseventeen, you know what is the top business subjective you're aiming at with yourteams. So, Chad, my reaction and your reaction to outreach, I'mguessing, is similar. Like my initial reaction was like, holy smokes,yeah, very much so, yeah, this change there, like it isjaw dropping, like okay, we're five minutes him, but like I don'tneed to hear anymore, like what do I need to do to get myhands on this? And, oddly enough, like I don't feel like we getthat reaction enough in our discovery and I don't know, first we're notconnecting pain. I don't know. You know, we're trying to figure outexactly why it's maybe it's just the you know, people are jaded to thesales experience and they're just not willing to give that kype type of reaction.I'm not sure. But like my one of the main things I'm working onright now is I want, I think everybody should leave a discovery initial conversationwithout rich being like oh my gosh, like get me in now and letme see if this works for me as good as they say it us right. Yeah, it's an amazing tool. I'm really kind of surprised. That'san interesting challenge. It's one of the kind of surprises me a little bitbecause it is I mean, anybody's carried a bag and who's had the prospectingin their DNA and wants, you know, you're driven to do sales that tool. I mean that freed up so much of my time, like yousaid earlier, to have just great conversation. So I'm curious, the interesting tosee how that plays out. I'm it's surprised that that's the reaction here. You'RE gonna yeah, I think there's a lot of fear, you know, Fud if you're a certainty, doubt out in the market about, youknow, giving too much control over to automation. And that's why, youknow, if you have a great tool, it's wide and deep, meaning likeyou can use it for everything from complete automation, we're literally your salesteam doesn't even know they're using it, to complete personalization where your sales teamis crafting every single message. You can use it all along that spectrum,but it has to go deep, like it has to adjust to the salesprocess and then it has to like cover every use case that a sales organizationhas inside that process. And so I don't know if it's because they likein the past the tools have been so narrow and so shallow that like theydon't really make a difference. I don't know if it's because of that unfitfieldpromise we talked about earlier with crm. You know, they feel like salesforth should be doing that for them and it is not. So why wouldthis tool work? That's the only thing I can think of. Well,I know, I mean I think it's. I mean I actually I just hada conversation so the CO worker. I have a different set up thanthey do, just based on the way that we're structured, and we weretalking about sales force and I said, you know, look sales worse.Is Great if you're running a, you know, global enterprise and you needsomeplace to put all the infot but but it's not actionable, as you said, in my opinion, and sometimes you...

...can be a little clunky. UX isn't you know, a streamlined as a journey. But that unflfhill promise, you know, is I think, yeah, maybe on something there,but that's a that's a it's definitely a big one. So when you whenyou look back over, if it so we just looked at, you knowkind of what you're wrestling with for the next six months, for months,when you look back over the last year, you know, what are you mostproud of your team, you know, stepping up and doing or the evolutionthat they've gone through? You know, what is it that you're the mostproud of for them achieving? Well, we tripled on our team in thelast actually, probably quad groupled our team now in the last year withour last class. And for me what's most important is I don't think I'mthe smartest cat in the room and have to stuff I've learned. Somebody likebeat it into my head or some rep showed it to me and like Istole it right, right, like you know, I haven't had that manyoriginal thoughts in my life. And so and so for me what's really importantis, as we grow out and continue with the momentum of success that wehave, is for us to feel like that when we come into a meetingor we have a discussion with a peer or another leader or whatever that likewe all have this hat on that says my job is to contribute to theconversation and to make things better and not to slough off, not to justgo into my corner and do my thing, but to have like everybody giving feedback, everybody inderstanding and like not every idea is smart, and just havingthis camaraderie where, like I can go to like one of my best reps, a Brian Gerard, a pleasant rich at there in Glennie, and theyyo coom and I can go to those guys they say to them, Hey, I'm having this problem, like take a week to think about it andtell me how you would solve it, and then I can do that withtwo people. We come together, you know, and like always say,like we trumps me. Right, we working together will always trump me.It always beat me. So don't let me be out there, like let'sbe weak. And that's the main thing that like, that's what I'm mostproud of, is I feel like we're all connected and you would say we'relike a family, but you know, I think that that term is overused. Your family's your family, like you know your kids and your wife needs. It's a hollow term. You can't have like your basketball team family andyour work family. Like how many family? A guy can only have one fan. Most of us are screwing that up right. But, like,I do want. I do want that have a feeling of camaraderie and likethe dude and the trench next to me is far and at the enemies headbecause he wants me to live. You know I mean, that's the kindof come it's. I'm proud that we've been able to maintain that as we'vegrown out. Yeah, the sales culture is critical, so I'm glad tohear that that's a place you guys are focusing. I've seen some companies where, you know, they still burning churn. They look at the sales team asdisposable, which is unfortunate, especially as technology kind of continues to gray, you know, blur the lines. This we want a sales upt.You're doing what the text you're doing, having those great conversations becomes even morevaluable. So having that camaraderie to be...

...able to selfanalyze and provide candid feedbackin you know the way, this's not going to piss somebody off. Imean that's that's a powerful culture. Yeah, listen, I'm not, like Isaid, I'm not smart enough to figure it all out on my own, nor do I want to. I just want to win. About mewin. So when you're when you look, you know, into the future,you know there's all these sales trends that are going on. Ai.Obviously there's still seems, blows my mind. Still seems to be this debate abouthis cold calling dead or not? Or you've got some saying social sellingis the answer. I'm kind of curious. What trends are you most interested inseeing play out and are there any that you, you know, arefocused on enough that you're actually doing prep you know, preparing for? Ifso, I think that following trends is dangerous. And maybe this is theold school guy and me and the you know, resistance to change with theway that I like to look at it is is sales is like, especiallygetting meetings and managing your communications like a three legged stool. You have tobe great at phone calls, you have to be great at email and youhave to be great at social touches. If you're not great at all,three then you're you're going to fall off the stool. And so what happensis people all run to the phone because cold calling is, you know,the new hot thing, and so, you know, then everybody's calling it. Well, when everybody starts calling, like the social channel start to openup because they're not as crowded. So everybody runs the social, then everybodyruns the email. This this pendentum constantly swinging between these three points. Andfor me, rather than ride the pendulum and either trailing it or, ifI'm lucky enough to be ahead of it or whatever, I just rather belike kick ass at all three all the time, and then I don't haveto worry about where the pendulum is. You know, right now we bookI think I'll last talk to my director sales development, is a complete StudSteve Ross. He said that I think fifty five percent of our meetings arebooked on the phone, forty five percent, forty percent are booked the email andfive percent are booked like social. So you know, that's how youknow we're all cold outbound here. That's no inbound, that's just like coldoutbound. Never heard of us. Type of meetings book but that's the that'sthe what we're seeing right now. But again, like, I want thatfive percent, so I'm not going to quit doing the social stuff. Youknow what I mean right? Yeah, it's that. It's the building ofthat cadence. Is that. It's the use of all the tools in frontof you, in front of somebody. I can understand seeing, you know, not wanting to follow the Trans without a doubt. I mass. I'veseen it with teams that I've run. There's this desire and I don't knowwhere it comes from quite right, because I didn't learn growing up with sales. Is never meant to be easy. It's not. I mean there's areason there's a risk reward on the compensation side, right that it's to contactsport. A lot of times you got to really be focused on it.So those when I see reps kind of jump on the quickest trend and justfocus on that, that becomes kind of a warning flag for me. I'mcurious Ho how you work with your guy, how you build that into your processand work with your teams to avoid...

...that, to to get them focusedon a consistent, multifaceted approach to prospectings. That something you find that you've weededout in your teems, you know, basin, or how you're hiring orhow you're training them, or is this? Is it a constant battle? It's not a battle at all, quite honestly. Like that's what ourtool does, is we only make available to them the way that we wantthem to work. So that's the only way they can work. If theywon't, if they work outside the system, like we've had a few people likego like try their own thing. They're so much less productive than somebodythat's in the system that they immediately self correct. And so, you know, like part of what we hier for is like can you and are youwilling to work the system every day, because our system is very predictable.You. I mean, I know if I put a hundred people into thissequence and series of touch points over three weeks that you know, twenty threepercent of those people are going to reply to me. Thirty percent of thosepeople are going to be positive replies. So I'm going to get six orseven meetings out of every hundred people I put in there over a three weekperiod. So my motivation every day should be, how can I get anotherhundred people in here right so I can have a person, you know,putting more people into the system to get these predictable outcomes that we know whathappened, or I can have somebody that's just trying to figure everything out,and I that's what I call the black box of sales. That person hasno idea what they're doing. Nobody knows what they're doing. There's just someinputs that happen and then there's these magical outputs can pop out the end.And when you're like that, that get, guess what, like you don't knowwhat you're doing right, you don't know what you're doing wrong, andso you can't, like, get better and you can't continue to do thegood things that you do. And so versus ours is all the years ofthe box are visible. You can look in the black box, you cansee how everything works. You can completely understand everything. And so something's broken. It's very simple to determine what the you know what the cause is.It's either the input suck or the conversation sucks at the very end right,but everything in the middle is always the same. So fucking cut out likefiguring that out. I can cut out managing that is. So you know, that's once people see the power of that and sometimes, you know,with the beat people into submission for the first couple months or here, butonce they see it, like all of them come back and they're like,you know what, I like, that was stupid. I wasted my firsttwo months trying to do it my way when like, if I just dothe system, it works. So excellent. Okay, well, let's change thedirection a little bit. We ask any or towards the end of everything, you ask kind of to standard questions, and the first to simply. Imean, you are revenue executive, right, which I guess makes youa prospect for other sales professionals and and in that position, I'm always interestedto hear kind of how someone that you don't have a relationship with today,don't know, how would they get your attention and build credibility in a waythat would, you know, inspire you...

...to want to engage with them.I'll tell you one thing. That doesn't work if you try to tell methat, hey, I went to Penn State University. Great to see that. You're playing the buck. guys out, delete that crap right there. Idon't give a you know, I don't care that you could look onLinkednna see where I went to college. You know, this is what Iwant to know. An email or a voicemail or social connectionist says simply this. I see your VP of sales. These are the threes problems that wehelp vp's of sales solved. Would you be interested in seeing how we solvethem? If I were like to any one of those three issues, Iwill take the meeting every time. It's like that simple. That is thosea very simple acause I'm curious. You know you've got to be reached outto quite a bit. How often do you actually see it that simple?Every once in a while, like I have a couple guys that are reallygood and you know they'll come in and you know, like the guys fromZoom Info. You know there are data provider, but they the way theysold me was, I thought, really, really effective, really masterful honestly.And you know he came in. He's like, these are the threeproblems. You're not getting enough phone dials. Connect. Yep, not doing that. Your ups are frustrated because their dialing all the time and not coptalking to Google. Yep, that's me. And you know you need more meetingsfrom your phone call time because you're spend so much time phone. Thankyou very much. Meeting Tomorrow. Let's do it. And then they cameto show me how to do it, you know. So that's like there'snot many people out there doing it. Most of them are doing, youknow, some kind of long email that, you know, I don't read morethan a quarter of. You know. It's just, you know, here'sthe difference, though. Chat is like if you have visibility to howyour process works and you can track, like I'm reaching out to this industryand this persona, or this market segment and this persona, then you canstart to see, like this messaging works with this industry but not this otherone, and this, you know, other messaging works with this persona inthat industry but not this other one in that same industry, and you canreally start to get granular and how you would attack things because you can seeexactly what works. And so, you know, that's kind of where whatwe've defaulted to. But for me personally, like, I don't see very manypeople do it very well, and that's not a dig it's just,you know, sales is a hard job, like you said. Somebody probably showedthem the wrong way to do it at the beginning. Right, right. Okay, so last question we ask. We call it our acceleration inside.So if there's one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional servicepeople, one piece of advice that you know, you kind of go downas being known for, they would help them hit their targets, blow outtheir numbers and be more successful. What would it be and why? Yeah, the number one characteristic I hire for Chad is curiosity. Like, ifyou in a sales call, are talking to me and you just seem curious, I am pulled into your web and I think that that's how most peopleare, and the reason is, because it's very simple, is curiosity isthe antidote for selfishness, and selfishness doesn't...

...allow you to create trust and itmakes the conversation one sided. The minute you become curious, what you startto do is you start to get the focus off of you and on tothe person you're talking to. Like if we went through your career and Istarted asking you, well, why did you decide to take that job asyour second job, like, what did your manager do? How did theyget you? You're going to beat immediately drawn into the conversation, you're goingto trust more and you're going to release more information, and it's nothing morethan me. I don't care where the conversation is going. I'm not tryingto lead it in any direction. All I'm am is I'm just curious asto, like, how your brain works. What do you think? What wasyour reaction to these things? How do you feel pain in that situation? Or how do you how do you not feel pain? Is So tome, like curiosity is the key to sales. If you can be curious, then that unlocks all of the information you need to do what you needto do to close a deal. Excellent. Yeah, I would agree with youwholeheartedly. It is one, probably the only thing I've ever seen.Overcome that that default setting of head. I want to run in the doorand tell you about this cool thing that I do, without ever taking thetime to understand the other person's perspective. You know, yeah, what you'redoing may not be what they're looking for or may not be a problem thatthey're experiencing right now. Curiosity, that's a great one. Thank you verymuch for that. That was that was great. All right, everybody.So that does it for this episode of the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience.Again, please check us out at be to be REV EXECTCOM for the blogpost. This interview be up there as well access to everyone else that we'veinterviewed and others that are coming up here in the near future. Mark,I can't think you're enough for the time to this has been an extreme pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having me to appreciate it. I don't no worries. Again, thanks everybody for listening and a mark for the valuable one side. Until next time. We Value Prom solutions with shooting, your team nothingbut the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience.To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in Itunes oryour favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until nexttime.

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