The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Mark Kosoglow on Why Sales Reps Shouldn’t Select Their Own Accounts

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“The more complex you make the sale, the less success you’re going to have.

As Mark Kosoglow, VP of Sales at Outreach.io, puts it, “humans suck at making decisions.” Therefore, the way you sell has to be focused and value-driven.

In this episode, Mark shares some of Outreach’s greatest successes and obstacles, as well as why revenue executives shouldn’t allow their reps to select the accounts they prospect into.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Are you concerned about hitting yourrevenue targets this month quarter or year? Your answer is value, primesolutions, a sales, training and marketing optimization companyleveraging the valueselling framework visit, www, dot value, primeSOLUTIONSCOM and start accelerating your results. You Ere listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated helpine executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. Youve come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcomeeveryone to the B to be revenue executive experience on your host ChatSanderson for those that don't have time to listen to the entire episode,as always feel free to check us out, if be to be revezectcom were, of course,on High Tuns, where reviewis always appreciated. Today we have with US MarkCoziglo VP sales without reach dot, io now anymore, listeners who work with mehere. Anybody who's been in classes; Kno, I'm a huge fan of what out rich isdoing so should be no surprise it a little more excited than normal, O talkto mark so mark. I went to first. Thank you very much for taking the time andwelcome you to the show thanks man what up. So when we start these conversations,we like to try to now ot best to kind of frontload some of the value for ourlisteners, and I like to ask her guess you know if you look back over yourcareer, was there a defiing moment or or something that happened, that youknow give you a lesson if you continue to refer to and go back to day and dayout and mis. So what was that and how did it affect your kind of career toDectry Wut cat? I was thinking about this after you sent me the note earlierthis morning or late last night, and I have three stories. So I can give youthree an two minutes: aned to minuteslet's go with thre, let's Soo asticl first one was, I was selling to schools, and you know: We've all hadkids or been those kids ourselves that Sol candy bars and if he sold ten candybars. You got this Te widget and if you sold twenty cady bars, you got thatlittle wigit or I was the guy that organized all that and helped schoolsraise money for fel trips and playgrounds, and things like that andthe little widgits little prizes that you could get was part of the plan oflike Hey, I'm going to go, do a bunch of stuff and I'm going to get all thesedifferent toys and things, and I mean let the people that run the fundraisersat the school pick what they want its. I created this point system like youcould buy this Minnin for this point and this and all this kind of stuff tohelp them kind of customize it so that, because they know their kids betterthan I do right, it was a complete disaster. I learned in that moment thatthe more complex you make the sale, the less success you're going to have, andthat's why you know I like to present one choice at a time because human suckit making decid thats the first one. The second one was.I had a AWSOM mender named Rene. U Yoa,...

...who showed me exactly how to do thatbusiness an one summer and a national sales meating took some time and Ivisited them at his home and he's so gracious and he taught me everything Ineeded to know well, of course, my first year I took everything he showedme and I said I can do this better and I did it worse, and so I went back anddid it the exact way to showed it to me, and I got the results that he got hislike one of our one of our top sales Repsat the company, and it taught methis phrase that I use with my people. All the time is. Why would I chiselattire out of the Rock in front of me when there's one on the rack right nextdoor, so like just use what people already do, don't make it up yourselfbecause you'll screw it up, because you don't know enough to make it better.Yet you know what I mean right and then the last one is you know. As became youknow, seales leader, I was got an email from a guy that was moaning andcomplaining about it initiate that was running, which you know glad now, asAlead im glad for that kind of feedback. But as a young leader, I was pissed,because this guy was lnand. Always Moaning right, like I thought all mycrap was hot so like. Why are you doing this and give me this feedback? And Iwell wrote an email to my my boss, the BPF sales, and, I said: Hey, you knowwhat d I need to do this guy's a winer. You know tired of it Blah Blah Ba. Well,guess what I didn't hit forward. I hit reply. Oh and I I taked in my bosses- email dressat the top. Obviously, and he is like mark. Did you mean to send this to myhike and I was like no, I sure did not, and so I had to have that hardconversation and in that conversation that rap, who was a great guy, show mehow a piece of junk manager I was, and so I went back to school, hit the bookshard and you know that helped me become a greater manager. So those are threestories of like three transitions in my career. That really, you know I use tothis day to be successfor at least try to bing excellent excellel. Those aregreat, thank you. So for our listeners, you don't know a lot about outreach.How O lottle background on kind of what the company does in your rule thereyeah. So it's very simple is there's this unfulfilled promise of caroundthat can be labeled with a single phrase system of record and that'swhere, like all this, data should go and feels people should use it to putall this date in. So you can get all these insights out to help you run thebusiness better, but unfortunately, what's happened is is crms have notmade good on these promises, because it's just nor a place where a rep cando action. So I reach is a system of action. It lays on top of the system ofrecord, on top of the sales force or whatever Sera you use that feeds it allof this data, so that you can make great insights, but is a great placefor a rep to act, so they can yem like their emails like their phone calls,they can set up their sales processings. They can see what's going on with theirpipe on. They can do all of these things on top of e sales force thatallows the system of record to still be a great place for leaders to getinsights in the pule reports that you need, but that the rep can act and kindof see how they are doing, specifically with their kind of outreach and theirprospecting and their typeline...

...management so that they can get betterresults. You know think of it. Like kind of your sales assistant, so ifevery time I called you Chad and you didn't either pick up or you kind oflike blom me off or we- we didn't come to a conclusion in the conversation toschedule Lynix steps, but that assistant will come into theconversation and email and call you and Tiko. We got those next steps, oond out,that's kind of what our reach does on the back en it is. I it automatesthings as a system of action where you rep can can do the things that theyneed to do to win. It's an amazing tool and, like I saidyou Ni, I mentioned before we Sart, requiring it's one that I have referredclients towards many times, because that it allows the last action itscaled as well right and becase a great memory tool. You don't have to rememberhow Ta Sain that Emai to that guy three days ago, four days ago, yeah, I'm notsmart enough to remember that crap. I remember I found t a long time ago. You know it's funny. I read this bookcalled getting things done by David Allan. He makes this awesomesome pointthat the brain is meant to have ideas not to hold them ind most of thosepeople. Unfortunately, their brain is caw with all the things they'reremembering to do so, they're not having these ideas to help them getthrough the decision makers and get the deails done and overcome the problem intheir in their sale cycles. So out, reach can like help you with that. Youdon't have to remember stuff as much so that you can just have awesome ideasout. You get more money and what was it that attracted you toout reachyou two over two years ago, when you landed there yeah. So I wasrunning a sales team of about ten or twelve inside people and ten or twelvefield sales raps, and I was meeting with one of my field- sales rebs in aHamtony an in northern Virginia, and we had rented a conference room and I drewon a Whiteboard a series of touch points that happened at a specifictempo in order to get more meetings for this rap, and so when I did that itkind of dawned to me like this is how I've always worked. But like mostpeople can't like keep up with the process an so I started going out andlooking for a tool that could not only tell me if my emails were effective butcould manage this kind of multistep multi channel process that I know ittakes to win. And so I found out reach- and I started talking to the CEO and henot kind of became buddies and we started having long conversations intothe night. And so one day I went to my wife and I said: Hey Listen. This is ateacher of sales, like I can get every rap on my team to work. The way that Iknow it takes to work to win and if the way I think is wrong, I can you know,stick and move to get to the one. The way that does win- and you know my wife-you know- bless her heart. She's awesome she' said go for ARD. I gotfour kid, so that was go small Tis, tion wow, but yeah went on hundredpercent commission and blew it out. You know it just it caughton like wild o fire and you know, had a compelling story to tell as aindividual contributor and as a leader- and you know we just kind of cracked itout until we got enough money to hire some ral sales raps understand how that works. So we werepreparing for the interview, there's...

...some focal points that you passed overright and there's one and actually a couple that stuck out to me, and Ireally like to impact kind of that perspective. T that the rest runerexecutives shouldn't allow their rests to select the account they prospectinto or that they put into the crm. I was wonder if you kind of pack that alittle bit former yeah so there's kind of two types of general buckets ofsales shops now, there's the end. He End, which is more traditional. What Iegreverave been probably what you grew up in where you know you do your ownprospecting, you know you hunt it down and you kill it and you eat what youkill, and so you know that type of person is very busy and I'm guaranteethe last thing that they're thinking about is: How do I get a high qualityaccount into my pipeline? What they're thinking about is, how do I getanything into my Pi right and then there's the new school shop, which hasa division of Labor or specialization of roles which has like an SDR functionor a function ahead of the closer that is booking them with meetings that istypically an intry level sales position. So the question I aske myself when westarted creating out reach was: do I want entry level, sales, people and orpeople that are full cycle sales, reps that are super busy determining thefuture of the company and if you, what is more important than the accountsthat enter in your pipeline, really nothing knowin. Those accountsdetermine whether they're going to renew they determine how suc the bigthe contract and o be how difficult the sale cycleis going to be now. What isthe size of the prize, like all of that is determined by what you put in youknow, inputs equal output, garbage and garbage out right and mo most of thecompanies. I've worked for garbage always went in, and so it was kind ofgarbage out ND. So what we decided, as we put processes in place and investedin operations hat, have an awesome director of sales off thats. Just youknow the man and we developed the way to like mine, accounts, aut AF, link inand reach them with data, and then you know, tear them out and that allows usto put only quality stuff into the very top of the funnal for sales rap so thatthey can only go after account tha. We know our great accounts that we want todo business with, and so do you have your team set up, so the the off putsthe quality in and then you have people that are going out and using tools likeoutrachs to you know, get those meetings and push them through thefunnel. Do you have the traditional huge cilt? Where do you have? How doyou have a broken up? I guess such Oul SA Yeah Ourselv we're of aspecialization of roles, type of shops, weave in stur function and they get fedaccounts by sales, OPS and here's. The other thing is is tales. Reps wouldalways tell me anymore. Ceunsny more counts, you don't need more accounts.You need to have better messaging all right. If I give you six hundredaccountals that are prevetted enriched, I understand the tearing of them. Iknow exactly that they should be customers of mone they're. Just not yetthen it's your job, O'm, paying you to figure out how to get me. Those sixhundred customers, I'm not paying you to give you two hundred no accountsevery month, because you're messaging...

...sojacked up in your process, O sojeckthat you can't get into them right, and so that's what we do. We give them highquality, and then we give e a great tool and outreach. We give thim greatdata with Zoom Info and we say, go go do it. So if you got a machine, if yougot an engine like out reach, you got great fuel. Hi is great contact, Datand Crete accounts. Then all you have to do. I have great conversations whichonly a person can do an so we let all the automation and all the data toolsdo everything upfront so that our people can have great conversationsevery day to move deals into our pipeline. actally axtally, one of theother things that you mentioned was the MEFOR standardized process. An youmentioned that you know: Train on the art of Arte. Prospectane rely on thescience of the automation right, I'm kind of curious how you arrive at that,where D that come from and if you a give me an example where this is, youknow it really kind of cemented as the right approach for you yeah. So again, you know everything's kind ofborn out of my experience in my headaches as a seller, you know andlisten every person in the world I believe, can be a decent prospector,because it's it's mundane, meachemical, roboticminky Work Ye. I see the account here's the threepeople I should call n Ha count. I'm going to call each ofthem, then I'mGoin to sayd anch of an email. I'm going no wait. Aday then Gonto collectthem. I'M gonna go connect with them on Lik, then that I'm going to wait twodays ago. INLL call them again like it's just rints and repeat over andover and over again, and so that's the science part thit's. The mechanicalpart, like you, have to have machines, do that if you want to keep pace withthe companies that are that have machines doing that, like you know, Ican look at other people in my industry that don't use a tool like ours andlike they cannot outwork me and like that, was always one of my specialsauces as a sales rap. Like nobody outworked me, my dad tought me how towork hard from a young boy and like I still I teach my kids to work hard andbut but now some pond, that's twenty. Two years old ICANOT work me with thehelp of a machine, and so that's when he decided you know what like we haveto Duoit as much of the science or that mechanical Rolotic partif sales into ethe tool and do the machine about reaching to that sales and gites you aplatform so that we can free people up to do what only humans can do, which ishave great engaging conversations, build trust, ind relationships, offersolutions and then convince people that why those solutions will work for them.You know only a seller can do that. Only great seller can do that, but themechanical part, the machine, can take care of with the guidance of a humanexceent excellent. We also kind of Eno back forth on time blocking ow. I'm abig big fan of this, I'm amazedg at how many people still don't do it, evenwith the help of all of the automation, the science that's out there youwouldthink that would become kind of a secondary. You know, just part of theDNA mean you have the tools which help reinforce that and thet a lot of peopledo it. So I'm just kind of curious how you know you have customers, then, whenyou work with your customers or clients, how do you help them understand theimportance of that and Best Practices, fo R, know making sure that's part ofthe DNA of their sales approach. It's...

...very difficult to help the REP level become that type of a worker when theleadership isn't completely intune with how it works and so and they're notbought into that system. So, typically, what we do is in inside our tool. We'relucky we actually have each hour of the day as a block on theHEATMAP, and then we can show you when your people are making most of theirphone calls and when most of your connects are happening. It its reallyeasy to look at those two charts one. Over top of the other and see yourpeople make tend to make a lot of phone calls in time blocks or in hours of theday when people don't answer the phone and so like. I don't know, if thit'slike some kind of subconscious thing that sellers have to deal with, likewith fear of the phone, and so they like their brain, makes them call yeahbetween eleven and twelve. You know, which is the worst timeofdata call yeah, but when you start to showin likelisten, this is where your effort is. But here's where your payoff is it'seasier to a Ligne to say you know what guys everybody needs to make calls fromam Te Nineyn and from three thirty to five or whatever blocks of time workbest, because our connect rates are twice as high then twice as many peoplewill pick up the phone. If we call during those times- and so that meansyou could book twice as many meetings and you know that means you can getpaid twice as much. So that's what it comes down to is. IsYou know you have to make the connection to the leader to understandthe inefficiencies of how they're working and then to give them like avery simple like five minute pep talk tweet that theyre teph o sales thatwill motivate their sales team to work in a new way, and so you know that's one way that we do it, but wehave a great tool that like makes it available to have that conversation t.So when you have your teams, you know you got R, your cannces or your TempoAllen and out reach andt's. You know email Callo, whatever that may be thetools thatre they're phenomenal, for helping do that. I'm curious with yourown teams, how you help them when they make that connection like how do youhelp them or inspire them or give them a structure for having those greatconversation? So do you mean how do we structure our sequences so that we getthe conversations or how do we train them to have great conversations incethey get somebody on the phone or set a meeting yeah once yeah, the latter oncethey get them on the phone? How do you train them to have a great conversation,because that I mean that's a little bit more towards the art side of it right,yeah? Well, I'm really lucky! You know our we're a sales company that sells asale software to sales PEOPLEIF. My Tame can execute on a very high liketop one percent level, then like really, what am I selling right? You know I so my company, our CEO Mani Medina in myboss, Matt Millin, invested in our team by giving us a director of fieldreadiness very early on, and his name...

...is Jerry far and Jerry Sol job is tohelp us have better conversations and understand where we need to trainpeople to have better conversations. So the first part is, is we have to decidewhat great looks like so we find out what great looks like and then we showour people. What great looks like the only show them? This is the area of thesale cycle, where gray can help you out the most, and so now we've got like youknow, a picture of what great looks like we have were able to quantify whatthan improvement in a specific area the salecycle will garder and then we justset up like you know the right kind of training, Tembo and the right kind ofyou know feedback loops to help. People like make that behavioral change,because you know most of sales. People Confuse success with comfort, meaningif they're comfortable doing something they think it works. And that's youknow, that's not the case right. Those things are mutually exclusive, and sowhat you have to do is you have to get sales people to understand like justbecause you think it works doesn't mean it does work. So, let's show you whatdoes work? Let show you, the improvent, that you can guess you can get overthat pain threshold of making a behavioral change. Excellent, so t it'sodd to hear the both the investment and director of readiness, so early I meanArich is growing. I'm from what I've seen growing very aggressively. How doyou work with that director of Sols name, win a readiness so, like you knowguys, O together weekly and talking about what's working or not like howmuch do you use your own tools in terms of o eating your own dog fo to come upwith? This is all right. This is the next evolution of how we have to prepour people. It depends on like kind of what part like we use a lot of salesforce reports to determine like where a lekag is happening in the funneland andthe pipe ine right, and so once we identify an area like. Oh our discover,calls, or only converting at thirty five percent. We think we could getthat up to forty two percent. If we really put some effort in there andthat's in the downstream affected that is x, millions of dollars extra a yearright, so they en what we would do is once we go the final link and our leakand see the chank what the change could bring about. Then we work together liketypically what I'll do il say hey. This is how I think about handling it. He'llgo out and do the research and give me like a best practice and kind of meltit in with my style. Then we like review it together and we have what wecall a sales excellence advisory panel seat and then we have thre or four ofour best reps review that make sure it's presentable for the rest of theteam, and then we were all tet out to the rest of the team. So that's kind oflike the process of how we work, but during the hey, we're going to launchsomething and let's work it out and then Getti the first measurement cyclelike we don't communicate a lot after that, like he's doing his job, I trusthim he's world class. I don't need to like meddle in how he's doing histrainings. All I need to know is like what do we decide on agree on wouldwork best and how is it moving the needle IPI if at all, and then, when techanges do we need to make Gif any and so that's kind of how we work is likewe said he and I set the ball of motion...

...together. Then he rolls with it untilthis time for us to take a measurement to see how things are going in. Okay,excellent excellent, so h, N, when you look at you, know SOM kind of get pivothere a little bit and focus more on a kind of what you are focused on w hwith your teams. When you look at kind of the second half of two thousand andseventeen, you know what is the top business ubjective, your Ambi, at withyour teams, so Chad, my reaction and your reaction,O outreach, I'm guessing is similar, like my initial reaction was, likewholely smokes, yeah very much so yeah D, this changes, er like it is jawdropping like okay yea were five minutes hin but like I don't need tohear anymore like what do I need to do to get my hands on this and, oddlyenough, like I, don't feel like we get that reaction enough in our discovery,and I don't know if or we're not connecting pain. I don't know you knowwe're trying to figure out exactly why this maybe it's just the you know.People are jaded to the sales experience and they're just not willingto give that type of type of reaction. I'm not sure, but, like my one of themain things I'm working on right now is I want. I think everybody should leavea discovery. Initial conversation without rech being like. Oh my gosh,like get me in now, and let me see if this works for me as good as they sayit. Dright yeah, it's an amazing tool, I'm really kind of surprised! That's aninteresting challenge. It's one of that kind of surprises me a little bitbecause it is mean anybody, who's carried a bag and who's had theprospecting in their DNA and Wante. You know you're driven to do sales. Thattool I mean it freed up. So much of my time, like you said earlier, to havejust great conversation, so I'm curious be interesting to see how that playsout, but surprised that that's the reaction, her you're Kinic, you, Ithink, there's a lot of fear. You Know Fud, if you're in certainty doubt outthe market about you know giving too much control over te automation, andthat's why you know if you have a great tool, it's Wy Andee mean like you canuse it for everything from complete automation, where literally your salesteam doesn't even know they're using it to complete personalization where yoursale team is crafting every single message. You can use it alall alongthat spectrum, but it has to go deep, like it has to adjust to the salesprocess, and then it has to like cover every use case that a salesorganization has inside that process it. So I don't know if it's because theylike in the past, the tools have been so narrow and soshallow that, like they, don't really make a difference. I don't know if it'sbecause of that unfiffield promise we talked about earlier with crm. You knowthey feel like salesfor should be doing that for them, and it is not so whywould this tool work? That's he only thing I can think ofwell. No, I mean, I think I mean I actually. I just had a Conversationsoof the coworker. I have a different setup than they do thus based on theway that we're structured- and we were talking about sales forse- and I saidyou know, look those forseis great. If you're running a you know globalenterprise and you need someplace to put all the infuct, but but it's notactionable, as you said in my opinion,...

...and sometimes you can be a little CunkyNeu X. isn't you know? That's trumline, I ta jury, but that Oer Fot promise,you know is, I think, yeah, maybe under something ther man. That's that's at's,definitely a big one! So when you, when you look back over AU face, so we justlooked at you know kind of what you're wrestling with for the next six months.Fov Months, Wbhat D, You look back ov the last year. You know what are youmost proud of your team? You know stepping up and doing or the evolutionthat they've gone through, you kno. What is it to do, the most proud of forthem acheving? Well, we tripled our team in the last actually probably quatgroupbuled our team. Now, in the last year, with our last class and for mewhat's most important, is I don't think, I'm the smartest cat inthe room, Ay Hav, the stuff I've learned, somebody like beat it into myhead or some rep showed it to me and, like I stole it right right, like yeah, I haven't had that many originalthoughts in my life and so and so for me. What's really important is as wegrow out and continue with the momentum of the success that we have is for usto feel like that when we come into a meeting or we have a discussion with apeer or another leader or whatever that, like we all have this hat on that says,my job is to contribute to the conversation and to make things betterand not to slugh off, not to just go into my corner and do my thing but tohave like everybody given feedback, everybody understanding like not everyidea is smart and just having this camraterie. where, like I can go tolike one of my best reps of Brian Gerard, a pleasant rich at there inGleny and they Yogo, and I can go to those guys to say to them- Hey I'mhaving this problem like take a week to think about it and tell me how youwould solve it, and then I can do that with two people we come together. Youknow and, like I always say like we trumps me right, we working togetherwill always trump me. It'll always beat me. So don't let me be out there like,let's be wee and that's the main thing that like that's what I'm most proud ofis, I feel like we're all connected and I would say we're like a family, butyou know. I think that that term is overused your family is your family,like you know your kids and your wife. That needs it's a hollow term. Youcan't have like your basketball team, family and your work family like howmany family, a guy, can only have one fan. Most of us are screwing that upright but, like I do want, I do want to havea feeling of caaraderie and like the dude and the trench next to me isfiring at the enemy's head because he wants me to live. You know I meanthat's the kind of it's Om, proud that we've been able to maintain that aswe've grown out, yeah the sols culture is critical. So I'm glad to hear thatthat's apus guys are focusing I've. Seen some companies where you know theystill burn an curn. They look at the sales team as as disposable, which isunfortunate. An specialy s as technology kind of continues to gratyknow blur the lives this. We want a sals rece Dosn't, what the text eredoing, having those great conversations,...

...becames even more valuable. So havingthat Kamaratere, be able to self analyze and provide candid feedback inyou know e way. That's not going to piss somebody off having that's that'sa powerful culture. Yeah I lis an I'm, not I like. I said, I'm not smartenough to figure it all out of my own. Nor do I want to. I just want to win dont me win, so when you, when you look, you knowinto the future, you know, there's all these sales trends that are going on AI.Obviously there still seems close. My mind still seems to be this debateabout his cold. Calling Dad or not or you've got some saying. Social sellingis the answer. I'm kind of carious h. What trends are you most interested inseeing play out and are there any that you, you know, are focused on enoughthat you're actually doing prep? You know preparing for them yeah. So I think that following trends isdangerous, and maybe this is the old school guy an me and the you know:Resistance to change. Well, the way that I like to look at it is is Selesis like especially getting meetings and managing your communications. Like athree legged stool, you have to be great at phone calls. You have to begreat at email and you have to be Greatas social touches. If you're notgratat, all three, then you're you're going to fall off the stool, and sowhat happens is. Is people all run to the fall because cold calling is, youknow the new hot thing Igh, and so you know there's everybody's calling itwell when everybody starts calling like the social channel start to open upbecause they're not as crowded so everybody runs the social. Theneverybody runs to email this. This pengum constantly swinging betweenthese three points and for me, rather than ride the pengulum and eithertrailing it or, if I'm lucky enough to be ahead of it or whatever. I justrather be like kick ass, a all fhree all the time and then I don't have toworry about where the pendulum is. You know right now. We book, I think I live,talked to my director sales development and a complete tud Steve Ross e. Hesaid that I think fifty five percent of our meetings are booked on the phone.Forty five percent, forty percent are booked the email and five percent artoo like social. So you know that's how you know we're all cold out bound here.That's now in bound, that's just like cold outbound, never heard of US typeof meetings book. But that's that's what we're seeing right now but again,like I want that five percent, so I'm not going to quit doing th social stuff.You know what I mean right: yeah it'sa, it's the building of that kine. It'sthe use of all the tools in front of you in front of somebody. I canunderstand, seeing you know not wanting to follow the transfom to dot amask.I've seen it with teams that I've run. There's this this desire- and I don'tknow where it comes from quit- frien because I didn't learn it growing up,but sales is never meat to be easy. It's not, I mean, there's a reason.There's a risk reward on the conpensation side, right it's tocontact fort a lot of times Ik. You got really be focused on it, so those whenI see raps kind of jump on the quickest trend and just focus on that thatbecomes kind of a warning flag. For me, I'm curious how you wowith your guy.How can build that into your process...

...and work? Ith, your cheame to avoidthat to get them focused on a consistent multifacited approach toprospectivgs of something you find that you've weeded out in your teams. Youknow basiinor how you're hiring or how you're traiding them or is this? Is ita constant batce, its not a battle at all? Quite honestly, like that's whatour tool does, is we only make available to them the way that we wantthem to work? So that's the only way they can work beuse if they want ifthey work outside the system like we've, had a few people like go like try theirown thing, they're, so much less productive than somebody. That's in thesystem that they immediately self correct, and so you know like part ofwhat we hire for is like. Can you and are you willing to work the systemevery day, because our system is very predictable? Ou N, I mean, I know if Iput a hundred people into this sequence- an series of touch points over threeweeks that you know twenty three percent of those people are going toreply to e thirty percent of those people are going to be positive reply,songin against six or seven meetings out of every hundred people I put inthere over a three week period, so my motivation every day should be. How canI get another hundred people in here right? So I can have a person, you knowputting more people into the system to get these predictable outcomes that weknow what happen or I can have somebody that's just trying to figure everythingout, and I that's what I call the Black Bokx of sales. That person has no ideawhat they're doing. Nobody knows what they're doing, there's just some inputsthat happen and then there's these magical outputs, an pop out the end andwhen you're like that, the guess what like you don't know what you're doingright? You don't know what you're doing wrong, and so you can't like get betterand you can't continue to do the good things that you do and so versus oursis all the gears of the box are visible. You can look in the black box. You cansee how everything works. You can completely understand everything and sosomethings broken it's very simple to determine what the you know. What thecause is. It's either the input suck or the conversation sucks at the very endright, but everything in the middle is always the same. So I can cut out, likefiguring that out, I can cut out M anaging that, and so you know that's once people see the power of that andsometimes you know we have to beat people into submission for the firstcouple months or here ut once ey see it like all of them comeback and they're like you know what like that was stupid. I wasted my firsttwo months trying to do it my way when like, if I just do the system, it worksso axcellent, okay. Well, let's Shage the direction a little bit. We ask anowtowards and Ofeveryin you ask kind of two standard questions and E. First issimply: I mean you are a revenue executive, foret, which I guess makesyour prospect for other sales professionals D and in that position,always interested to hear kind of how someone that you don't have arelationship with today. An you don't know: How would they get your attentionand build credibility in a way that...

...would you know inspire you to want toengage with them? I'll tell you one thing that doesn't work. If you try totell me that hey, I went to Penn State University great to see that you'replaying the Buckos O't delete that crack right there. I don't give a you know, I don't carethat you could look on like Ennis, see where I went to college. You know thisis what I want to know. An email or a voice, mail or social connection is ays.Simply this I see your vpsals. These are the threes problems that we helpthe PS sale SOLV. Would you be interested in seeing how we sow them?If I relate to any one of those three issues, I will take the meating everytime. I it's like that simple. That, as non is a very simple apoo curious. Youknow you've got to be reached out to quote, but how often do you actuallysee it that simple, every once in a while, like I have a couple guys thatare really good and you know Dhey'll come in and you know like the guys fromZoom Info. You know there are data provider, but they the way they sold mewas. I thought really really effective. Really masterful, honestly- and youknow he came in he's like these- are the three problems: You're not gettingenough phone dollars, connect Yep, not doing that youreup or frustrated,because they're dialing all the time and not caught talking to people yep.That's me, and you know you need more meetings from your phone call timebecause you spent us much Tine on the phone. Thank you very much meetingtomorrow. Let's do it and then Theya Shar me how to do it. You know sothat's like there's, not many people out there doing it. Most of them aredoing. You know some kind of long email that you know. I don't read more than aquarter of you know it's just you know, here's the difference. Thou chat islike if you have visibility to how your process works and you can track likeI'm reaching out to this industry and this persona or this market siglet anthis persona, then you can start to see like this messaging works with thisindustry, but not this other one and this you know other messaging workswith this persona in that industry, but not this other one in that sameindustry, and you can really start to get granular in how you would attackthings, because you can see exactly what works, and so you know that's kindof wor what we've faulte to, but for me personally, like I don't see very manypeople, do it very well and that's not a dig. It's just you know. Sales is ahard job. Like you said, somebody probably showed hem the wrong way to doit in the beginning, ighright. Okay, so last question: We asked we called ouracceleration insiht Soff, there's one thing: You could tell sales marketingor professial service people, one piece of advice that you know you kind of godown as being known for they would help them hit their targets blow up theirnumbers would be more successful. What would it be and why yeah the number onecharacteristic I hire for chat is curiosity like if you in a sales callare talking to me and you just seem curious, Iam pulled into your web and Ithink that's how most people are, and the reason is because it's very simpleis curiosity: is the antidote for selfishness and selfishness? Doesn'tallow you to create trust and it makes...

...the conversation onsided the minute youcan become curious. What you start to do. Is you start to get the focus offof you and on to the person you're talking to like if we went through yourcareer and I started asking You well, why did you decide to take that job asyour second job like? What did your manager do? How did they get you you're,going to be immediately drawn into the conversation you're going to trust moreand you gang to release more information, and it's nothing more thanme. I don't care where the conversation is going, I'm not trying to lead it inany direction. All I'm Im is I'm just curious as to like how your brain works.What do you think? What was your reaction to these things? How do youfeel pain in that situation or how do you? How do you not feel pain, and soto me, like curiosity, is the key to say else. If you can be curious, thenthat unlocks all of the information you need to do what you need to do to closea deal, excellent yeah. I would agree with you wholeheartedly. It is oneprobably the only thing I've ever seen overcome that that default, setting HamHadi want to run in the door and tell you about this cool thing that I dowithout ever taking the time to understand the other person'sperspective y. u o Yeah what you're doing may not be what they're lookingfor or may not be a problem that they're experiencing right now, curiosas a great one. Thank you very much for that. That was that was great, allright, everybody, so that doesn't for this episode of the BTB RevenueExecutive experience again, please check us out at BTB REVIZECCOM for theblog post as interviewill be up there as well access to everyone else thatwe've interviewed and others that are coming up here in the new future were.I can't think you enough of the time a this has been an extreme pleasure yeahthanks for havining to appreciate it. No were is begin thanks to everybodyfor listing ind the march for the valuable one size until next time we dovalue prime solutions wit, you and your team, nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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