The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 5 years ago

Kevin Dorsey on 3 Tips for Creating a Sales Culture that Sells

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Businesses are complicated entities with a lot of moving parts, any of which are indispensable to making sure that things run smoothly and that the revenue continues to flow inward.

But, there is one department that is impossible to ignore when trying to sell a product: Sales.

A bit obvious perhaps, but as many can attest, developing an effective sales team can be like fumbling in the dark for a light switch that you’re only 90% sure is actually on the wall nearby. And a lot of that uncertainty is caused by the culture of the company or the sales team.

How exactly do you develop a sales culture that brings in results?

In this episode, Kevin Dorsey, VP of Sales Development and Enablement for SnackNation, offers a wide range of tips for creating a dynamic sales team by explaining how the salespeople at SnackNation have grown and developed a sales culture that sells.

Are you concerned about hitting your revenue targets this month, quarter or year? Your answer is value prime solutions, a sales training and marketing optimization company leveraging the value selling framework. visit www dot value prime solutionscom and start accelerating your results. You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone in to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we have with US Kevin Dorsey, vice president of sales, development enablement for snack nation. Now, for those out there that are unaware of what snack nation is, as a person who has been lucky enough to work at an office where we had snag nation provided, it is a rapidly growing company focused on delivering healthy snacks that Navel and create awesome office environments, I can speak to this first hand. Every time that box would show up, it became a community event, which, in and of itself would be a reason to have Kevin on the show, but if anybody's, you know, paying attention to social media linkedin things of that nature, they also know that Kevin is an extremely well respected sales leader and he's done some amazing things at stag nation. So we wanted to have him on the show and I want to welcome Kevin and thank you for your time. Absolutely, Chad, happy to be on here with you. I appreciate the kind words on Snag Nation. We definitely do our best. The customer service is second to none in my experience and having a, let's say, a wife who was the office Admin, office exact assistant, is very, let's a particular hearing a rave about it and then experiencing it firsthand has just been great for us. So typically, at the front of the show we like to do kind of it's an odd question, but we want to get as much value as possible for our listeners. We ask our guests if you look back over your career, was there a defining moment or something that happened maybe change the trajectory of your career that you took some lessons away from? If you kind of share what that was and what those lessons are. We'd love to hear it. Absolutely and it. I mean that's actually an easy one for me. So it would have been Cheez maybe ten years ago. Maybe ten years ago, one of my very early, and I'm actually my first mentor, David Babarrow, handed me a book called thinking girl rich and he said, if you are serious about being successful, read this book and then we can talk. And so I read read the book in like two days and that was the first time I can say in my life that I finally understood that I was actually in control of my own destiny and success. That success didn't happen to me, I made success happen and that as slutely changed my life. I became a...

...voracious reader and learner. After that it became a goal set are. After that write in my goals down clear mission statements, purpose statements, and then that has transformed my career and my life in more ways than I can even count. Actually, the personal ownership of one's faith is something that as you get older it kind of becomes a little more obvious, but if you get that earlier on in your life it can make some serious differences to the rejectory or not only your career but your personal selfdevelopment. Absolutely. So how about we domine into the kind of the normal stuff and a little background on your role at snack nation? Sure so. I mean that's, at the end of the day, really started with human. So extat nation came from human and human stood for helping unite man kind of nutrition, and so I oversaw the sales team for a human which was healthy vending machines, helping markets for schools, corporations, offices around the country, and we had this kind of crazy idea about maybe putting some snacks in a box and see if people would pay for that. Because if we looked at you know, if you look at trends, we saw eighty ninety percent of the inbound leads that came to our website, we're all smaller offices that were too small for vending machines, are too small for markets, but we're still there was a need there and so we decided to put snacks in the box and to people will buy it. And not only did it work, it worked really, really well. And then they asked me to try to grow out that team and, as I give me three reps in three months to it see if we can make it repeatable. So it doesn't matter if only I or my cowork at the time, John Dinto, if we're the only ones that can sell it, it doesn't work. So it took three months to kind of put that process together and it worked and we have never looked back. And so that's, you know, kind of how it came to be. Well, in the growth has been pretty, I'm pretty amazing. If I remember Carl, you said you went from thirty two and fifty reps and something like eighteen months. Yeah, I mean we're just over fifty now and coming up on three years. So we have, I mean zero to fifty and under three and then, yeah, we went from twenty to fifty and almost twelve months. So they very, very fast scale excellent. So when you look at that team, as you know, you had your first three Reps. you prove that it was viable, that the the market would respond. I'm curious when you start looking at those reps and started assessing, you know, how to scale it and grow. We were the first things. We're the first places you looked in order to make it, you know, repeatable and scalable. Opportunity Creation. So could we consistently create qualified opportunities and then looking at those conversion rates and figure out, okay, what are the pain points that we are actually solving, what questions do we need to be asking to expose some of those gaps or pain points, and what I believed to be a consistent and doable conversion rate metric. And we were able to figure that out over three months in terms of what to expect and then every decision we've made since then about how to maintain that, because it a he's used to be full cycle pan. It was, you know, eighty percent outbound sales. We that...

...introduce strs after about a year and a half, brought revenue up even higher per rep and now our inbound channel is started to catch up to the outbound. So now we're actually doing just as much inbound revenues we are outbound, whereas for the first two and a half years it was like seventy thirty outbound, two inbound. So it continues to evolve, but we pay attention to the pipeline creation and conversion rates across all of our verticals, all of our markets, all of our channels, and make all decisions around trying to keep those where we want them to be. And so when you look at creating the structure that you can plug, say, you know, strs are reps into. That's create. You know, that's step one. How do you fout? You figure that out, how your structure it. But when you bring reps in, I mean you've been pretty prolific on linkedin about, you know, on boarding reps and how that works. And I think there's a red notebook or file folder that they carry around, right, so everybody knows it's the doverything is in genius. Then some kind of cares when, when you bring on those that many new reps, what kind of things do you find in the reps from a skill set standpoint that you have to focus on in terms of skill set development? Or characteristics I look for in a rep? Oh, let's do let's do both. Okay, all right, I'll go. I'll go characteristics first. Characteristics. Top for a look for an all reps grit, self, awareness, adaptability and curiosity. Okay, those are my top for and because I believe they have those for the skill sets that I want to teach them. It works because I want to teach them to ask great questions. If you're a curious person, you naturally ask more and better questions. That's why it's a quality I look for. Prospecting is not easy, it is hard. That's why they need to be gritty and that's I mean and notice and I tell us the people. I did not say anything about hard work in the characteristics of the people I look for, because I think hard work is very easy to fake. I don't think most people understand where it really means. That's why I use grit, telling by the Times you worked hard when things were Shitty, right, the Times you worked hard when things weren't going well. You know and talk about that great and so that falls into our prospecting. We're growing so fast that they need to be adaptable, not coachable. There's a big difference between adaptable and coachable. coachable requires you to be coached. I have to tell you to change your behavior. Adaptable is you recognize what's happening and change your approach because of it. I need adaptable people because we're going to continue to change as we grow, and that all funnels into self awareness. What's working, what's not? Where is my performance? What am I good at? What am I bad at? So the reps can actually control some of their own destiny in terms of they should be coming to me saying, Kevin, I am struggling at the coaching section of my calls and I would like help getting better at it. And so it all funnels from those characteristics for me. And so when you look at structuring the team you mentioned, you know, going from just the three reps to St ours and it used to be full cycle a sales how do you decide on that structure? You know, why was it a focus point for you? Because some of the most important metrics I tracks...

...started to slip. So the first year, you know, it's a blue ocean for us. We find it. We didn't just go after anybody, everybody. We didn't technically even have to be that good, but you know, we were good, but we didn't have to be right. You could go after anyone, and so that was fine. After about a year and a half, one of the first metrics I talked about, Opportunity Creation, really started to slide. On the AE side. It wasn't as easy to prospect anymore right. We couldn't just load up big lists and go. And so in the opportunity creation starts to slide. So then of course, does revenue and conversion ray start to slide because people started getting looser with their qualification, you know, process, because they just wanted to hit their often numbers. So, looking at that, we said, all right, if we can introduce SDRs in and that it still makes financial sense. So even once we put SDRs intoo the world, my ae still had the prospect. They just didn't have to prospect as much. And so then we were able to add in the str role, replace the pipeline that we were losing and then also increase the amount of revenue we were getting her ae to make sure that that cost made sense. So you said something really interesting that I want. I want to go back to the that even though there were strs, they still had the prospect. That was I did a Webinar yesterday on prospecting. I actually gave you a shout out as an example of phenomenal emails and sent a whole bunch of people to do linked in profile for those emails that you guys publish out there. I'm curious do you work with the a's and the strs on different types of prospecting where they both using the same approach? I mean, how does that differ. Maybe it's just a volume level. I'm just kind of curious. Yeah, it's more volume level and targeting. So yes, the approach and the training in the process are the same, but my ae's and now, as they've been doing more in bound be a he's are doing less and less prospecting. But like for most of last year, they's were targeting larger companies to prospect because I view if you're going to make twenty opportunities for yourself in a month, they'll make them small. So they were going after some of the larger, N even larger, just like not the small, the strs. You know, hit the whole GAM it across the board. Okay, excellent. And so are they both enabled with the same technology stack? I'm going to be curious to know kind of what that stack looks like and what you found to be most effective. Yes, they they are. They both have like no, we have our entire prospecting system and outreach. We use outreach and sales loft and we have and have cadences for everything, personas what their pain points are, missed, follow up call. I mean we have a sequence for everything. So you're going after a larger company, that's you know has snacks already, there's a sequence for that. If you don't know they have snacks, there's a sequence for that. If it was an old inbound lead and we're retargeting, there's a see sequence for that. So the whole the whole process is there to be followed.

Then it's on the reps determine who they're plugging into those different processes and running with it. So that yeah, how often do you go back and look at like the effectiveness of particular elements of the Caden? So you know, but maybe it's called scripts, maybe it's the email content that's going out. Do you have a process for kind of that constant evolution and agility of those cadences? Yes, so it used to be monthly and then we would split test. I would split test a new email for almost every step, almost every single month. Can I be an open rate by half a percent? Can I increase response rate by ten percent and CD if we can beat it, we even run contest with the reps, you know, called like beat the mean, like. So of the REP wants to rewrite an email, it has to beat mine. If it's like if it's not going to be mine, no, you can't have it in the sequence. It doesn't matter. So but like we'll put those things out there for people, and so yes, and then it got to a point where we were seeing almost no improvements and certain areas, and so it moved to like a bimonthly review of like, okay, if it's maintaining where it's at right now, that's okay, and then looking like squeeze things out. But a good example we had this was two and a half yeah, two and a half months ago, like emails number like five and six in our sequence had very low response right. So I don't expect high response rate to that point in time, but they were very low, like in the one and a half to two percent range. I just had to pay a lot of attention to them because, you know, the earlier emails are where the most the Ash. It happened right, took a couple days, put out some rewrites and split tested them and doubled up response rates in a week, you know, so taking them from like, you know, three to six and two twenty four. I know exactly what that means now dollars and sense for the company. And we just continue to refine it. Excellent excellent, is it? You know, one of the things that I again sounds like I'm probably stalking you on linked then, but your stuff shows up in it and it resonates so much. I saw you did a day, a call day, where the picture at least was the reps standing up at their desk, and when we work with clients that's one of the first things we try and tell people's like your physicality matters, right, your your attitude, smile, stand up, be active, you be in your body and be present. I'm kind of curious. Did you just figure that out or how did you? How did you come across kind of your best practices forgetting people over their fear of the phone? Well, I guess those are very different questions. I agree with your body. You know, physicality matters, but I believe it's comfort matters. There are people that absolutely are looser on the phones when they're sitting and leaning back, and then there are people that sound last lacks it days ago when they're sitting and leaning back. So they need to stand. So it's more so like what body position allows you as a person to bring the best side of view out? I'm a spas right, I gotta stand my hands are movement. I'm all over the place. I'm probably like swinging something, like I'm all over the place. Some of my other reps like they are much more...

...comfortable in themselves. When are in their chair leaning back, hands are still up and moving, but they're not standing because when they stand they get tense and they lean over things. So I'm more so about finding what works best for you, but I do believe the physicality is there. Now on how to get people over their fear of the phones, one I mean I address that in the hiring process, like I'm going to do everything I can to figure out, like, if you have that fear already and in a little bit almost like try to scare you out of it. Like you you don't have a choice. If you're not going to make your like, if you're not going to make your dial scared, this just isn't the place for you, period. You know. So I get ahead of it there. But then I firmly believe that fear comes from a lack of knowledge and confidence. If you know what you're supposed to do, there's nothing to be afraid of, and I think so many just sales people in general, don't really know what they're supposed to do or the scripts that they're given don't really work. Like it's a script, but it it doesn't work, and so now they're forced to do something that either they know doesn't work but they don't have a better solution. So now they live in a state of fear all the time of picking up that phone. So that's why we do so much training and so much like education and knowledge baseduff here. Is If you know what to do and you know what objections you're going to run into and you know how to handle them, there's nothing to be afraid ups. And if you are still afraid of it, then you just shouldn't be in sales. And that's okay, right, you know what I'm saying, like it's okay, like I'm not trying to bash people, just like if you still have that fear and you still have it, that's just not the right role for you and that's all right, and I'll try to either find something better for you or, you know, we help you, know, find what a better career path would be. So I believe fear is trumped by confidence and training. I really do that. It's an important point. It's and it's interesting right. It's snack nation's grown so fast and you guys have have a very focus on sales, enablement, on training, getting those refs to be as effective and as powerful as they can be. It's something that you don't see is in in as many organizations as you would expect. At least some of that. I honestly it's what keeps me employed. But I'm kind of curious where that came from for snack nation. Why the focus from Day One? Was it's part of the culture, or was it, you know, something that everybody knew was necessary? I mean, I think a lot of that. I'm just trying how to say this about sounding like really, I guess, really egotistical, but I can't find what I like. It's so more than everyone was. Like. Education's very important to me just as an individual, and so I believe my own Divi element is so important. That passes down Sean Kelly, Andy Mackinson, Ryan Schneider, like our C sweet. They are all very, very into selfdevelopment and it just trickles down, you know.

So it wasn't it wasn't ever really a choice, you know, it's just who we were as individuals and we just took it from there. So you go to you talked to any leader at this company, any leader at this company, if they are VP level, they are all obsessive on their own personal development and then it just trickles down to their teams, because it's not just the sales team. I Remember Success Team, Chelsea, same way, books on our desks reviewing things with their teams, weekly trainings that they do it, they're marketing, Andy Mackinson taking his team to conferences like it's just an obsessive culture we have here and we just were lucky enough to find enough people like us to put it all together. Excellent, excellent. And so when you look back over your time at snack nation and everything you've accomplished, what are you the what are you the proudest though? What do you feel had the most significant impact? I would say I'll actually can. I'll tell a story here, one of the proudest moments I have to date. It was, I think August or September of last year, and I mean we like, especially like all of last year. I mean we hit goal. That's what we do, and normally we hit goal two to three days before the end of the month. So every extra is just padding we bring that Gong. That's just how we got down. And it is September and it was the last day of the month and it was like three o'clock and we were still like k short of our goal and you know, the team starting to get a little bit nervous around us. And one of our reps, like Jenny, brings in a K deal. Then Jordan pops another K deal. We got K and it's like forty five and Chrissie steel brings in like a threezero dollar deal with fifteen minutes left in the day to take us over goal. Now then, if you can see that I'm getting goosebumps telling the story because of like what happened when she brought in that deal. She got mocked like the entirely, the entire a team goes and tackles are people are like yelling and screaming and hugging. And the thing is, Chad, no one on that sales team made a dime more for US hitting gold. Nothing. There was no incentive there, there was no you get a bonus check, like there were people that are already a hundred twenty percent of goal calling other people's old lost opportunities like that. That moment will stick with me for so long because I was proud of the culture we created, that that they cared about the team and they cared about that number more than the individual. That, that, to me, will always be one of my proudest moments. And I guess it's not even my moment technically, right. I just got to I got to watch it happen and that that to me, will always be a highlight of my career here. That's a great story. And then I joked yesterday with somebody that, you know, friends don't let friends prospect alone, right, because there's power and doing it in a team environment and celebrating that stuff with you know each other, the wins, the...

...losses, the you know, we joke with with one client. You know they have a board where they read up the best objection somebody got for the day. You know, maybe it's where they were told to go and how to get there, but you know, whatever it is, you want to celebrate those and come together as a team. That's a very powerful set up. So I'm glad to hear that it's working well for you guys. Absolutely so. When let's talk a little bit about forecast accuracy, you had a lot of movement, a lot of calls. I'm curious, is the tool stack or your process more to credit for forecast accuracy, or is that something that maybe he's not a problem, maybe you've already figured out and doubt that in I just keep hearing that a lot from other clients. Man, if you know someone that has eighty forecasting down to a science, you let me know what I guess. What I've gotten down to a science is the discount I apply to people's forecast. They're saying bad. It's actually it's not a sandbag. It's happy ears. Right, Kevin, I got T K closing tomorrow. Okay, so let's talk about the six thousand dollars it's actually coming in. Where is it coming in from? Right? So we do have technology, right, like we use sales for us, there are certain fields and stages that need to be applied. We use things like inside square also. That does some very cool things around forecasting. At the end of the day, the number one the number one thing that we found to determine forecast accuracy is call quality. How well did that actual pitch and recommendation call go? Because no technology, trump's a bad pitch call period and so that's why we do the call scoring. That's why the managers we have, we really push the a managers to be on the front end of deals, not the end of the deals. I know everyone has different sales processes, but for our sale there's nothing you can do at the end right. The manager can't step in on the last closing call to help close that deal. The decisions already been made. It's the pitch call, it's the recommendation call. That's where they need to get involved. So we actually have reporting that shows all the large opportunities that got created in a day so that the managers can get the reps ready for the pitch call. Once it's in the pipeline, Chad like it's it's done. It's in the pipeline right. There's there's very little that's actually going to occur at that point that's going to make or break that deal. It's all what happens on the front it. So that's what affects our forecasting. And so then we have reps like they have a weekly commit that they put in. And then the questions always will why, why is this on here? Why do you believe it's going to close and why do you believe it's going to close for that amount? And why is this person going to buy? I and so we've gotten forecasting, you know, into that way. But then, of course I still apply a little bit of a discount because sales people are optimistics, which is cool, like it's cool, but you know, that's you know, that's where we're at now. And so when you look at kind of snack nation and your the biggest target...

...for you guys right now, is it more revenue, top line, revant generation? Is A market share acquisition? What's the biggest challenge for snack nation as a whole? Man, I guess it's obviously it's new acquisition, right's new acquisition, but of course I have to keep those customers, you know. So we have, like, you know, member success, like keeping those customers long term. So it's a combination of both. You know, it's getting new customers, are then making sure new customers stick. Right now we are, we are way ahead of the game in terms of like competitors doing what we do and because we built this team and this company predominantly on the outbound side to begin we will be very hard to catch because, if I know a lot of companies focus in bound first, which is fine, but marketing is relatively easy to rip off. Like if I can copy your website today, there are APPs for that. So I can copy your website, I can find out what keywords you use it. As long as I'm willing to spend more per keyword, I can beat you. I can go hire people to write bad blog content but block content to get my e see, like you can rip someone's marketing off relatively easily. You can't rip off sales to you can't. You can't. The amount of mistakes we've made over the past three years, you're going to have to make all those same mistakes on the sale side. So market share is important but, like right now, it's fine tuning our process and continuing to hire the right people and putting them into that process to continue to scale this company. That's really interesting perspective. I was I was just talking to Brian Burns about kind of one was the future of the sales teams look like and the power and how you differentiate, how you use your sales team as a differentiator. It sounds like for snack nation that sales team is a huge business differentiator, at least in staying ahead of anybody that wants to come to market after you. Yeah, it has to be, and we we've talked about this internally. Our product is snacks. Our product is not a differentiator. I was speaking on this up at the Topo summit in San Francisco. I was presented on like scampling a team and like the bottoms up approach and you know, I set it to the crowds. Like some of you guys have gain changing products, like truly game changing products, you just don't know how to sell it. And that's not fair. That's not it's not fair. Like, I'm sorry, I'm selling snacks. And when, when people get into our system and into our process and actually into our sales training and see all the different things we have to do in order to be successful, it catches people off of guards because, like you think like snacks, like Oh, it's a simple product, so should be easy to sell, and it's the complete opposite. It's such a simple product that it's actually hard to sell. We got to use every tool and tactic in idea to get to the marks that we're doing, and I don't think enough people put enough focus on like that. Actual sales process I think the product can do it for him. It's not. Your sales...

...team has to be a differentiator. It absolutely has to be. Otherwise you're leaving money on the table. Well, and not only that, but I mean the ability to connect to the people that you're selling to write, that human centered approach, not it's not just about, Hey, I've got this you know, Sass platform that does Xyz, you want to buy it, or I got this new cool gadget you want to buy. It's really about being able to ask scale and with consistency, be authentic and connect with those people on a level that goes beyond features and benefits, right, and that's that's stuff I've seen a lot of companies struggle with being able to scale that. It seems like you guys have kind of cracked that code. I won't ask what the code is, but it sounds like good to crack that code. I will give you the code. I'll give you the code because I'm not I'm not worried about it, because to execute the code is a lot harder. It's it's being bad salespeople and great communicators. Stop being a salesperson and be a great communicator, be a real person. You call someone and they're just being a Dick, right, like you call them and they're just sorry for my language. I don't know. I guess really out about it's using. Are All good, okay, just making sure right. And, like you know, they answer the phone. It's like hey, a Kevin here. A great salesperson will just go like hey, it's Kevin from stagnation. How's it going? A good communicator go WHOA, what? What's going on over there? They taken care of you. They running you into the ground. That question of being a good person, a good communicator, opens up so many doors because you stopped trying to sell and you just worked on communicating. When you work on communicating, you understand it's a two sided affair. Sales is one side. So that's what we focus on so much. It's how do we how are we good communicators? How do we find out why people do what they do? Ask that extra question, but level with them as a person. All these personas people. I think of forgotten what a persona is. A persona is a representation of a person and people have feelings and emotions and fears and wants. That's the ticket and that's how we do so much of our selling here is working with people as people. That makes sense? Yeah, yeah, completely. I could not agree more. It's one of the one of the reasons that I have focused on the things I focus on is because, at the end of the day, when I used to run sales organizations and hire guys, I always used to joke with with my with people in the hiring process, like I need to see your freak flag, like you need to be able to show me that you've got some rough edges, that you can connect with people. I don't need another blue shirt, khaki wearing, bing droub W driving guy. I need somebody that can be real, even especially when we're selling big enterprise deals. You're going you want to be able to get to the point where you can trust somebody. You have to trust the customer. Customer has to trust you, and the only way to do that is to be authentic and human, and a lot of the things that we see out from a sales standpoint, they I think they rode that. Sometimes just more focused on the numbers and the top of the revenue, where as if you just focused on being real people, the results speak for themselves. Yep, I agree. So let's change...

...direction a little bit here. I ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions towards the end of each interview. The first is simply you are a VP in a growing organization. That makes you, for lack of a better word, of target for people that want to sell. So I mean, we've obviously talked about you know you've got you guys cold calling and using outreach with email sequencing and things like that. But what is it that get your attention right? What is it if somebody want to get in front of you, what is it that would build their credibility with you? Tell me something about my company. I already know, meaning you should not target me first period. You need to talk to someone else on my team or at my company before you ever get in touch with me. That is my biggest piece of advice, and this is actually what I had presented on up at the Topo summit, was working more of a bottoms up approach. If you're trying to get in touch with me and you know nothing about my company, you know nothing about how your product would actually affect my company. Like when I get these prospecting emails and say hey, we will x your SDRs production do you understand that my strs create seventy opportunities per month? So you're trying to tell me that you're going to do to hunt. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't. You don't know what my team or my company does. That's how you get in touch with higher ranking people, is you learn how your product will actually affect the bottom of their organization. And if someone shot me an email that said I talked to your team, you think I'm going to open that email? You, yeah, you weren't know what they said, and I'm going to open up that email and it's like I'm trying to think of a product shit. Like I'll like an sales off on outreach. Right, I talk to your team and I found out that there's no structured process for your prospecting. Everyone sending different emails, there's no structure follow up process and I think you might be losing money because of it. Sales off outreach, we help structure that process for you so you can actually scale faster, see what's working on it's not, and get the most out of your team. You have ten to fifteen minutes and maybe dive in and see if this might be worth looking into. That's it, you know, and that that email would actually not only get my attention but also get a response and almost guarantee a meeting, because you're talking about how your product actually will affect my company. Do not tell me what your products going to do for me when you don't know what I do. So that's my piece of advice. Excellent, excellent advice. Okay, so last question. We call it our acceleration insight. Doesn't have to be about sales or how to get a hold of your just in general. When you think about sales, marketing, professional services, people, experts in the fielder people that are doing this day today. If you have one piece of advice in addition to make sure you know the company, no, you know who you're talking to, what would it be and why? And we wanted to be able to something that you know it's going to help and beat their targets, beat their numbers. What would be that one nugget that we would say? This is, you know, the quote from Kevin. I guess it's in line with what I would just say. If I can give one piece of advice two companies that are trying to grow and scale, it would be understand how your product actually...

...affects the end user and use that information to win over the decision makers. Excellent. So, yeah, I'm curious. So how do you? So how does that show up inside of snack nation when your guys, when you're scrs, are reaching out, how do you how do you internalize that? We're talking to the office managers, we're talking to the executive assistance. Like I we can talk to anybody right, like if I'm going after a company, yes, I want to talk to someone in finance, I want to talk to the executive assistant, eventually the CEO. I can talk to anybody in a company about snacks. Hey, true, you follow right. So, if you have a product that does email, get in touch with anyone that sends email at that company. If it's with sales people, sales people are the easiest people to get in touch with. Yeah, you get it, in touch with them, like that's that's what I mean by and that's what we do here. To start the conversation. We talked to whoever we can get in touch with, because we can still establish pain points and gaps from that lower level individual. Then it helps us actually present something to the higher level individual. That actually is true. Right. So I'm not hitting up someone and going hey, stagnation helps give you happier, healthier and more productive employees. I can say, Hey, we talk to a couple people who found out you guys really aren't mixed up the snacks that much and it might be getting a little bit boring. We thought this might be a cool thing to look in you to maybe take that culture to another level. We got five ten minutes. That's how we internalize it and it works and it works great and there's companies I've talked about and consulted to do it and when they start doing it it works and it works great. Use everybody at a company to help you sell. Excellent, excellent. Well, all right, everybody that does it for this episode. Please check us out a Bob Rev exactcom show the episode with friends, families, Co workers. Of course. If you are enjoying what we're putting out, please write us a review on itunes. Kevin, if people want to talk to you further about some of the concepts you put out today, what's the best way to get in touch with you? Let's let's start with Linkedin. Hit me up on Linkedin, shooting me over a message, more than happy to to respond back. All right, excellent. Well then, I can't thank you enough for your time today. This has been great. Thank you so much. Yet excellent again everyone, thank you for this thing. Thanks to Kevin for these invaluable insights and until next time, we have value prime solutions. Wi. You and your team's nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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