The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Jon Kondo on Using Sales Analytics Across the Entire Organization

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

With a rise of big data, there are more and more opportunities for companies to leverage their analytics and drive different approaches to business return.

We sat down with Jon Kondo, CEO of OpsPanda, to learn about how organizations are using sales analytics to plan their success.

You were listening to the BDB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketingteams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were toolsand resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth inthree, two, one. Welcome everyone of the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about the importance ofsales analytics across the entire organization, with the continued focus on big day oftheir opportunities for companies to leverage their analytics to drive different approaches and business return. We want to dive into that today and to help us with that wehave John Condo, CEO of ops panda. John, thank you for taking timeto be on the show today. Chat. Thanks. So what's forhaving happy to be here? Excellent. So we always ask off the allquestion out of out of the gate. If you think about back over yourlife for your career, is there one you know, defining moment or storythat you go back to, some lesson that you've learned? This kind ofhelped shape your perspective on things. What would that event be and what wasthat story and why was it so important? You know, Chad, I thinkwhen I think back, I go all the way back to probably Ithink sixth grade and I was a boy scout and our fundraiser to raise moneyto go to camp that summer was to do a car washed and so allof us, I think, took twenty tickets and had to go to ourneighborhood and sell them for a dollar. And I'm probably getting myself by theprice, but but you know, I went out dutifully of my neighborhood andknocked on doors and came back with, I think, nineteen tickets and onesale and pretty dejected. And my parents were having friends over and and andhe was a professional sales guy, and I mean if you think about theold time journeying and sales folks, he was a professional salesman and I thoughthere we go, easy mark. They're over for dinner with my parents.I went up to and I said, Hey, would you like to buya car wash ticket? and Said Stop Right there, because you're not sellingcar wash tickets. Just try this approach and he said ask, he said, tell people that you're raising money to support BU local boy scout troupe tobe able to go to camp and what they like to help support that effortfor a bunch of local kids to go to camp. And, by theway, they get a car wash along along with that. And he goespright and he had me practice the two or three times I did it andand I think he bought a ticket. But then, more important, wentback out. I went back out into the other part of the neighborhood andsold all my tickets and I learned about that was, you know, you'renot selling. You have to understand really what the value of what you're sellingin the value was is the people want to help support a local troupe.They didn't really care so much about getting their car wash with. They caredabout was, hey, can I help support a local organization? And Ithink that holds true throughout my entire sales...

...career. You know, when Iwas running the BI team at a hyperion, we learned that, you know,that was a very technical tool. You could sell on bits and bitesand an inputs and outputs all day, but what you really had to understandis what people wanted to do with the application. That they were going tobuild and would value that fraught. So to me it's allays about understanding,you know, the mindset of the customer, and I a tribute that all theway back to those car wash tickets and it's something that many people stillstruggle with today. So it's excellent for our audience to hear that. Solet's talk a little bit about ops panda. You know what is it and what'syour role there? So opspan that we are about a three year oldcompany. We are based on a sales analytics and planning application and what wedo is we help sales leaders, finance leaders and sales operations that are playingand analyze their sales force. So when you think about an organization today,you've got big, large sales organizations with lots of moving parts and you needto understand what each of those parts contribute to your overall sales plan and whatwe call true sales capacity. And so you know what are your enterprise reps? Where your commercial reps? You're inside. However, you might think about thosesales reps. how do they how do they contribute? Are they knew? Are they tenured? Where are they in season out? And there's alot of different factors and we've built an application that helps you calculate all ofthat. And so I have to ask, is there a story behind the nameOPS PANDA? So there is actually, if you the technical story is,if you break down the letters, it's operations planning and analysis. So, okay, I have a my youngest daughter or nickname is pandas if sheclaims to her sisters that, but it's really operations planning in analysis. Excellent. And so when we look at analytics, right, analys is a big deal. Everybody's always trying to figure out how they're going to get the returnon their sales investment, especially, you know, the human being investment sideof it. How are you seeing companies using analytics today to determine or influencekind of their best sales selling model? So I think what people today UNfundamentally understand that you know, sales is an investment, right, but Ithink that up until today it has been really difficult to understand what the truereturn on that investment is. If you think about all the advances that havebeen made in manufacturing or even in marketing or other parts of the organization andmanufacturing. People know exactly if I invest in a new new manufacturing line ora new machine, how much output they're going to get the the same can'tbe said for sales today, because it's hard to understand if I invest inthe new salesperson. They have an expectation of what they want to get outof that person, but they don't necessarily know when they'll when they'll get thoseand with any true, reliable predictability.

And so we're trying to bring thatpredictability. We're trying to bring that level of analytic rigor to a sales organizationand we see that today in an organization. Some people are more sophisticated than understandthat a little better. Fast growing companies are adding people. It's harderto to do that analysis. We allow you to bring in, you know, your past analytics so we can give you history of what's actually happened andthen, more importantly, as your plan goes on, you can validate itwere, my assumption is correct or I need to make course adjustments, andI think that's really the key thing, is being able to make course adjustments. We all were lived and sell, no matter what industry you're in.Today we sell in a very fluid environment. Right. So competitors change, marketdynamics change, all these things change, and so you need to be ableto quickly understand what's happening and I need to make a course adjustments.Should I increase hiring because there's a great opportunity, or should I delay higherand a little bit because maybe a products a little bit slower to come themarket? Those types of analytics are are super important and we're helping companies embracethose and adjust their adjust their sales investments. And have you seen, I meansales reps. you know, I think we're seeing a shift in someof the ways the sales reps aro out out there today, but I knowin my career there was always those sales reps that were worried if too muchanalysis was done on their individual performance that perhaps they know they may not beas high ranking as they wanted to be. I'm curious, have you seen anypush back when you're dealing with clients around how you balance that, youknow, big day to analytics versus the Human Element of sales? I meanI think there is still and I grew up in that environment, right.I grew up in the I think the old environment was sales would say tothe rest of the company, give me my number, party what my resourcesI need and if I don't make my numbers and can come, you know, to whatever you want to do to me. But if I make mynumber, then don't ask me about how I did it. And I thinkwhat's change is that in today's world, especially in so many different revenue modelsthat occur today, if a sales team doesn't make their number, the implicationsaren't just for that court of the applications have a long tail, right.If you don't make your bookings, you may not have your Billi. Bills, for year because there you have deliver bills or you have subscription review orwhatever type of revenue stream. And so people are wanting more visibility into what'sgoing on and I think the better conversation to flip is I think sales organizationsare saying, look, I now can explain why I need to make investmentsearlier or now, or whenever it might...

...be, so that I can bewell ahead of the curve six months from now, a year from now,and so they're turning it and saying look, this is good for the organization.I think the other thing too, from a reprospective is, yes,they're, you know, reps, Reps. if they're if they're on top ofthe heat, they always love having the reports, of having them comeout. If you're in the middle or the bottom, you don't like himso much. But I think more importantly, what reps appreciate about data today isyou can have a really a real conversation. You can have a manager, can sit down with a reference, a hey, let let's look atall your opportunities, let's look at what's happening within your organization. And,by the way, you know this is why we want to shift your territory, or this is why your quota is justified, because you have this opportunity. And now it's not just hey, we're raising your quota because we saidwe're raising your quota, it's hey, we're raising your quota because you knowhave this much of an opportunity and it justifies it, or vice versas.Yeah, we do need the lorrier quota because as the opportunity is drunk andwe understand that. I can see that that provides more visability into what's reallygoing on and allows sales to have a more active conversation with other constituencies.Within the company and within manager to Rep relationships as well. And so there'sthe there's the big data par there's the collection of the data, right.We always used to say, and maybe I'm dating myself here, you know, garbage and garbage out. So there's that, that collecting of the data. But there's also an interpretation layer, right, somebody has to interpret thedata and and reattach it to what they're doing. Have you ever seen aninstance where poor interpretation of the data has led to, you know, unexpectedoutcomes? Yeah, I mean I think that what you see sometimes today is, you know, if people sometimes people it's poor interpretation the data. Sometimesthey also don't look at the complete picture of the data. I think ifyou look at still today, a majority of sales organizations and sales leadership,rightfully so, because they're they're expected deliver quarterly results, especially if you're probablytraded these days, you have to deliver a quartering quarter out. So alot of sales leadership is looking at current quarter pipeline, current quarter opportunities,and they look at leads and opportunities. Maybe they're looking at Q plus one. You know, especially as you get through midway quarter, you might startlooking to the next quarter, but they're never really the the time horizon isn'tmuch beyond that. What we would say is it's you really need to bethinking about looking beyond that and looking about what investments do I make, becauseif it takes you to you know, take six months or nine months toramp arette, I can hire them tomorrow, they won't have any effect until twoor three quarters from now. That's important to know. And so Ithink the bad things that happens when they ignore those that longer term horizon,and it's even not even that long you think about it. It's three quartersa year out kind of thing. That's...

...not a super long horizon. Butif you ignore those things, the bad things that can happen is, youknow, people will start saying, Che's what happened? Are Our revenue fellor flattened? And then, you know, the first reaction is is we needto expand our target base, and so they might start chasing bad leadsor bad opportunities because they're trying to expand their market. You'll see, youknow, unfortunately, you'll see leadership changes, you'll see sale heads of sales,changes in heads of sales because you know the the expectation of growth didn'tdidn't come true and and had that person will say, look, I cantell you that we're going to hit a flat spot because you know we haveto investor to do that. And then, by the way, once we hitthe five spot, will be investing through that and then will return toour growth curve. And the worst thing that I think I've seen happen ispeople question the sales investment and and you know, you hit a flat spotin sales, sometimes the Nash reflection is just, okay, let's let's freezeeverything, circle the wagon were it we're in reality, it might be youknow, might be saying, Hey, we really need to go hire somepeople because if we want to avoid extending this flat spotter or we want toavoid hitting this again next year, we need to be putting in a teamin place that's going to be ready and productive, you know, in three, three four quarters from now. And so you know, there are somebad implications that happen and it's not so much that it's bad interpretation the data. It's probably the horizon on which they look at the date is probably morewhat I would say is, as cause some of the challenges and so that'sthat's organizational. Let's talk a little bit more about the sales exacts themselves.Right, we're seeing seeing a shift and kind of from the old school,kind of be tob selling to I don't I have to use the word,but more millennial digital influence types of sales reps. I'm curious when, whensales exacts have the opportunity to have this data, what's the largest hurdle you'reseeing that the individual level for them to actually leverage it to improve their performance? I think it is it is weighing between, you know, the needsof a quarterly delivering a quarterly forecast to building a strategic plant and what you'sin some of the successful, super successful companies you see a sales leader whosaid, you know, pipeline and opportunities is critically important, and I wouldabsolutely agree with that. Right, there's you know, I worry about ourpipeline and our opportunities all every day, all the time, but they're alsogreat sales leaders are talking about will cheese. I need to be thinking about what'sit going to be six months from now, nine months from now,twelve months around, eighteen months from now. How am I get to invest ingrowth and I think we're we're hoping,...

...you know what, we're seeing somechanges. Some of the new sales leadership that's coming in understands that ifI can, if the data is there and I can look at trends,I can predict out and and model out what the future looks like, thenI can be better off and then I can also go have a conversation withfinance or or, you know, my CEO or our board about investing nowto have returned in the future, and I think that's where, hopefully,that we'll see the shift go. You know, it's not to say takingaway from you got to go out and get deals closed. You got togo and do those things, but you also have to be a lot ofportion of time to be thinking about future investment. And so if I'm hearingyou correctly, it sounds like with the right end lytics, you can takesome of that lack of predictability out of the sales equation. Right historically it'sbeen a little challenging, at least it in my experience. I've seen organizationsstruggle with, you know, what is the sales seem really going to produce, you know, quarter over quarter, and so what are you seeing?Companies due to use the analytics to manage their sales teams and turn them intomore of a predictable resource. You know, I think that all all businesses,you know, we would all love to have a perfectly perfectly linear business. I've met my entire career looking for that business where I could just havea perfectly linear and know what's going to happen. And we don't. Butwhat you do when what with the data shows is that if you aggregate abunch of data and you have a large enough organization, you can actually startto say all right, hey, at what what units of time or whatunits can I use some predictability on some companies, you know, quite honestly, if it's a super wumping business, you might have to look at areps production according to annually. More often than not quarterly is probably about theright you can say, look, we predict that productivity across this Co OrderReps. so let's say commercial reps in North America should be about this ona quarterly basis and in the averages will work out and you could say Imay not know exactly who's going to do it, but I can count onthat we will get this production out of that, that group of Reps,and so you can start to have predictability. What we talked about is, youknow we call the notion of Boyd Culture. Sales capacity is what ismy predictable sales capacity quarter and quarter out across all my different you know,coorts and reps, whether the enterprise, commercial and inside, whether it be, you know, services and license, whether, however, you want tobreak that up, which you can, you can. The analytics will willallow you to start to correlate a capacity for that and then you can bringthose together to give you some some predictability.

And I'd also have to think thatthat type of data, that type of insight, would facilitate conversations outsideof sales. So finally maybe have a conversation that breaks down that silo.You know, I've coming up. It was always sales versus marketing, marketingversus sales. Right, and I would think with this type of data,much like you're seeing on the marketing side with with their use of data,facilitate some more complete organizational conversation. Is that a fair assumption? Absolutely right. I mean, I think you know, you'll never get, you know,sales and marketing is, you know, you may never get a Yankees fanto love the Red Sox. You ever get, you know, saleslove marketing or vice versa. But I think what this does is it opensup and it brings a conversation to a ground. Right. It says,look, if we want to expand, we need to we need to providetwenty five percent sales growth next year and to do that we're going to needto add, you know, fifty sales people into an organization of two hundred. So then I can go to mark and say, Hey, we needto support these fifty people. Here's what I'm going to need to support them. We're going to need a pipeline of x per red. We're going toneed that. Here's the end. And then marketing can say, okay,that makes sense. And now you look at the marketing analytics to and andmarketing analytics has come so far that they can say, okay, I canlook at and say, if I need to create this much pipeline, thisis how much legion activity I need to do, this is how much investmentin marketing and do it and it becomes one, one model that is synkedall the way across and even downstream, you can look at it from aservices perspective and say hey, we if we sell this much, we're goingto have this many new customers that need to be supported by professional services.If that's your model. And and what it does is it allows those conversationsto happen cross you know cross function, and then also it allows that otherfunction that sits across all of them, finance, to have great visibility inand be able to see and then tie that back to their overall corporate financialplan. Okay. And so then if we go back into, you know, sales, let's go back to doesn't have yes, I'm going to sorry, listeners, I'm going to do it selfless plug here, but I'm avalue selling fan. So how would tools like these analytics help measure the impactof sales training like value selling? Great Question. I don't a value sellingfan as well, but you know, one of the things that when Iused to roll out sales training and I rolled up value selling multiple times,is we would to how do we measure? How do we measure the effect ofthis right? How do we get a return on investment? Our applicationis purpose built for that right. I mean it's purposeful for a lot ofthings. But absolutely we could say, Hey, we can give you theanalysis says when you bring on a new repead in in your current environment,it takes nine months to get productive and...

...that's what you need to plan for. I'd like to if I could reduce ramp time of a new rep fromnine months to six months, I gain a quarter productivity right, and thathas real value to it. Let's go up and put in value selling andnow I can measure that after and I can measure the the new reps thathave been brought on that have been through value selling. Are they now rampingin a shorter period than nine months? Are Ramping in six months? Wellthen that that automatically pays for that training ten times over. So you canmeasure measure that. And also to or productivity. You could say, Hey, you know across our ten year reps, you know our productivity. There's lotsof different studies that show what percentage of reps make quote and things likethat. At averages anywhere you see numbers from sixty to seventy five percent.But JEEZ, if I can raise that from my three points across an organizationof three hundred Reps. Right, what does that provide? And, bythe way, we're going to institute, you know, the sales enablement methodology, like value selling, and I can measure that and and have measurable results. And so that's where I think it closes the loop. Finally, on, you know, the sales enabling side. Yeah, and that's always, Imean, that's always been the big challenge, right, I mean,having having done this, and I'm sure you've seen it too, we knowthe reps that embrace the methodology and yes, I am, I'm plugging value selling, but something's better than nothing. So whatever you got out there,guys, it's okay. But but if they look at that, the repsthat adhere to it, that used it, well, we're always more successful thanthose that kind of fell back into their own habits. And now itsounds like with, you know, the right application of the analytics, youcan actually do the feedback loop to the business. All right, we didthis investment, sales enablement. Here the numbers before, here, the numbersafter. It's no longer a guessing game. All right, we're writing to showyou. Yeah, and absolutely, and we could take it down tothe REP level, right, so you could go through it. A managercan go through and say I think we're up a really embrace that. RepBe so much for rep see really embraced it, you know, and youcould compare. We provide the analytics that they could compare the productivity of those, you know, and and then you could have some proof to go backto repee and say, Hey, look, this stuff works. Let me showyou your peers. They're all the one slightly better than you because theyreally embrace it and it becomes a you know, going back to your earlierquestion, reps, you know, like reporting sometimes and sometimes you're done.And but this is just the it's a great manager to it's just look,I'm not we're not asking you to do this because it was the training toure right, we're asking to it because it's affected right. We can wehave measurable proof here that it's effective. If you want to increase the sizeof your commission checks, which is ultimate poll for scraps as well as careeradvancement stuff, then you'll then let me...

...show you why, how to embracethis and how this works. And and I think that's where, you know, you can have some really meaningful conversations and I think it's really beneficial.All right, so let's pay me here a little bit and talk about opspanda, as you're leading the organization of there. What is your guys currentStu business issue, your top strategic objective you guys are trying to achieve?Well, I mean, given our stage of company, we are still avery young company with a very small sales forest. So we are out evangelizingour message right and I think part of this is there has never been aa application like ours in the market before. Most people do these concepts in inspreadsheets. I often tell the story of if you think about the leadsand opportunities side, you know, forecast and pipeline. They're literally billions ofstollars of being spent on crum and marketing automation. And yet people, andI've talked to every size organization, from very small but to the largest salesorganizations, and they manage for their sales for us on a hundred dollar desktoptool, you know. And and so part of what our challenge is thisto say hey, there is a better way and there is an application nowout there that can do that. And and so that's we're in a littlebit of a market creation, cell sales right now, and market awareness,which is fun because when people get it, you know, we've got some great, great customers and they get it and they embrace it into like thisreally is making a difference in in our lives. And it's sometimes it's assmall as it all. I don't work on the weekends now, you know, or but oftentimes what it is is, hey, we really found a realgap in our capacity or we found this or, you know, weneeded to make adjustments and allowed us to do a course correction quick more quickly. I was in with a customer the other day and I saw it wasamazing. I saw a report. We did it on the fly, kindof report, and it took us about five minutes to get the answer andthe person, you know, who is viewing it, she said that wouldnormally take us twenty four to forty eight hours to get and she said thisis going to change our you know, the way we do business. Andso so that's really fun and that's we're in a really fun stage of thatand every every step forward is a win and, you know, and wehave some fun with it, but it's challenging, it's you know, youstill go out and you still have to understand what customers pains are, whattheir needs are and things along those lines. And then, you know, westill through go through all the basic selling steps. And so you've gota growing sales team. Are you guys using the apps pain to tools internallyyourselves? I do. I use it. I've done our you know, Iuse it all the time. I've done our five year growth playing onit. So I use it. You...

...know, I guess I hate theyou know, the expression of eat your own dog foods, not most realelegant one. I had an old Boston said, you know, we drinkour own champagne. I guess that sounds a little better. I'm a bigbeliever in that and that we use our own application. So we do.And and the reps. how the reps on the team, I'm going toassume when you're hiring building the team, they haven't seen a tool like thisbefore. So how are they finding working with this type of analytics, youknow, really built into the DNA? What they're doing? I mean they'retrying to sell it, but they're also using it. Have the reps responded? They responded really well. I mean I think that our reps are kindof early a vandalists. You know, the reps really get it and sothey embrace it. One of our newest reps, she was actually a customerand so she really got it and and was passionate about it. And so, you know, I think that it's it's a the whole company, whetherit be from developer to sales to marketing. We all are very, very passionate. We absolutely believe what we're doing because we really do think this isa fundamental change in the way people will do business and we we can proveand we can see with the customers that we've been forced up to work withthat it makes it makes a tangible difference in their business. And so it'sone of those were, you know, I always in selling stuff. Ialways wanted to sell stuff that I would be happy selling, you know,standing on a soapbox talking about and this is one that I clearly feel thatway. It's you know, we really feel like we're in the reps arehave embraced that and they they share it and they share it in the waywe measure the business, you know. So we are on a shared mission. Well, the passions critical right, I mean the buyer will feel that, especially these days, you got to have somebody who believes that what they'redoing isn't just cool, but it is going to make a difference right,it is going to provide that positive impact. So I'm glad to hear that that'sthat's part of what you guys are doing. So towards the end ofeach interview I ask kind of two standard questions. The first one is asa revenue executive, as a CEO, that makes you in the politically correctterms of prospect in sales. It's a target, and so I would loveit if you would help our audience understand if somebody's trying to get in frontof you, somebody you don't know who wants to capture your attention, establishcredibility, believe they have a solution for you, what works best to captureyour attention and make that first meeting happen. You know, it's a good questionbecause I get solicited all the time and I think you know, Iwould admit to today, sales reps, I think it's harder than it hasever been to get the attention of buyers...

...because there's so much there's so muchnoise out there right there is all the social channels, there's email blast oryou know, and hardly anybody picks up the phone anymore. Rights so Ithink it's hard. But I think what, you know, part of it isis if you provide me something that's interest to me, content wise,you will get my attention, meaning if you can slightly understand what my businessis or slightly understand what I might be going through and provide me, andit can be something as small as a you know, literally a quote orsomething that says, you know, hey, did you did you know ten percentof businesses that do this, you know, art I can't be ablegood example off on my head, but you know, the providing, thenI'll read the next sets right. Then I'll go down and I'll continue tolook and and I just had an experience with the sales weapon and he hekept after me, but every time he contacted me had a little bit ofcontent and and to the point where then I call them back and said,Hey, you've earned you know, you've earned the conversation, so let's havethe conversation. And Application looks pretty interesting. So, you know, I thinkit's that. I know it's hard. I think it's hard to get peopleto do that. I send out, you know, I call on prospectsand I share the frustration and so I always try and you know,read what people send me and I do try and get that. But thereare some that, you know, they clearly I'm just one of a numbersaid it to me and they're hoping it's a a little bit of a sprayand pray. That's not going to work and I don't think that works intoday's Today's environment, because there's just so much noise out in the channel rightnow. I also think social is a you know, like things like weadingarticles and are interesting because, you know, again, if you if you hitget to me with with good content, then you know it piques my interest. Excellent. And so the last question we ask we call our accelerationinsight. There's one thing you could tell sales people that you you believe wouldmake them, once they hear it, better instantly tomorrow, one piece ofadvice that you would give them. What would it be and why? Theone piece of advice I always give sales people is be curious, be intellectuallycurious, and what I mean by that is actually be interested in what yourcustomers or your prospects are doing for a business. You know, I thinkit's don't use view them as a prospect or as a buyer. View themas an interesting company you'd like to learn...

...about, or interesting organization or whatever. IPING be curious about their business, because if you're curious, that willcome through in all your communications, that will come through your sales presentations.I'll give a quick example. You know, back in the old days of abefore Kikos was bought by the Fedex, I was down I made a calldown there with a the sales wrap and and you know, we wentand called and was senior member of the on the finance team and we wereselling him financial planning and we're going through the meeting and such an I'm aliterally on the way down. I've been reading about Xerox going out of businessright and that was back when Xerox was kind of in jeopardy of going outof business. And I said to and I said so, you know,you guys worried all about the Xerox and he was all, my God,because that's what I'm spending a hundred percent of my time. And he's weare the weird zerox's largest customer outside of the federal government and if they goout of business we don't know what we will do because you know, wehave a litterally thousands, thousands of machines and parts and all the times stuff. And we talked probably for twenty thirty minutes about it was just interesting andI had nothing to do with our deal, but it was just I was curious. I was it was fascinating to me and and we walked out inthe in my rep setting is wow, how did you know to ask that? I said I was just curious about it. Right, I read aboutit. This is curious and and about two months later the deal was comingto fission. We got held up and and I needed to make a callon him and ask him to help push the deal through it and because I'vehad that relationship, we were able to get the deal done. And Ithink you know, I don't want to I'm not trying to pat myself onthe back, as I've seen so many examples of great reps doing in andstops just me, but I always tell people that being curious is your mostimportant asset. Actually be interested and if you're not, if you're not sellingsomething to people, who you could be interested in what they do, thenmaybe it's hard to find something else because it's you know that that comes throughin your conversations. Yeah, the Carey, I agree with you one hundred percent. Curiosity, especially today, you know, curiosity is I see repswho are curious, who engaging customers out of out of their own genuine senseof all right, essentially, that's what we're talking about. That's where yousee that connection happen. Right. It makes it less of a hey,I got this widget, do you want to buy it, and it becomesmore of a human connection. I think curiosity plays a huge role in that, you know, and I think we needed not forget that, even withall the technology and all the change and things like that, selling is stilla personal thing and you know, we there's a lot of different mediums inwhich we do it, but people still buy from people they like and Idon't think that's changed and I think that's...

...an important thing to remember. Andpeople genuinely like people who are interested in them, and I think that's wherethat curiosity comes through. Perfect, perfect done. If a listeners interested intalking more about what we touched on today, what's the best way to get incontact with you. So people who feel free to email me directly.I'll be careful how to open up, but it's a kindo a opps pandacom, but also to our website is ops Pandacom, and its more information there. But you know, welcome, welcome in any your actions. Thankscell andJohn. I can't thank you enough for taking the time. It's been greathaving on the show. Well, Chad, thanks so much. This is great. I was love talking about sales. It's it's been my entire career andI'm passionate about it and they're always appreciated and also to I am abig fan of the value selling methodology and you guys so happy to do it. Appreciate that. All right, everyone that does it for this episode,please check us out of be Tob Rev exactcom. Share the episode out there. Friends, families, Co workers. If you like what you here,please leave us a review on itunes. We do look at those to determinetypes of guests to bring on. So you guys will keep listening and aregetting value out of it and until next time, we have value prime solutionswith you all. Nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to theBB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribeto the show and Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank you so muchfor listening. Until next time.

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