The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Jon Kondo on Using Sales Analytics Across the Entire Organization


With a rise of big data, there are more and more opportunities for companies to leverage their analytics and drive different approaches to business return.

We sat down with Jon Kondo, CEO of OpsPanda, to learn about how organizations are using sales analytics to plan their success.

You were listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone of the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about the importance of sales analytics across the entire organization, with the continued focus on big day of their opportunities for companies to leverage their analytics to drive different approaches and business return. We want to dive into that today and to help us with that we have John Condo, CEO of ops panda. John, thank you for taking time to be on the show today. Chat. Thanks. So what's for having happy to be here? Excellent. So we always ask off the all question out of out of the gate. If you think about back over your life for your career, is there one you know, defining moment or story that you go back to, some lesson that you've learned? This kind of helped shape your perspective on things. What would that event be and what was that story and why was it so important? You know, Chad, I think when I think back, I go all the way back to probably I think sixth grade and I was a boy scout and our fundraiser to raise money to go to camp that summer was to do a car washed and so all of us, I think, took twenty tickets and had to go to our neighborhood and sell them for a dollar. And I'm probably getting myself by the price, but but you know, I went out dutifully of my neighborhood and knocked on doors and came back with, I think, nineteen tickets and one sale and pretty dejected. And my parents were having friends over and and and he was a professional sales guy, and I mean if you think about the old time journeying and sales folks, he was a professional salesman and I thought here we go, easy mark. They're over for dinner with my parents. I went up to and I said, Hey, would you like to buy a car wash ticket? and Said Stop Right there, because you're not selling car wash tickets. Just try this approach and he said ask, he said, tell people that you're raising money to support BU local boy scout troupe to be able to go to camp and what they like to help support that effort for a bunch of local kids to go to camp. And, by the way, they get a car wash along along with that. And he goes pright and he had me practice the two or three times I did it and and I think he bought a ticket. But then, more important, went back out. I went back out into the other part of the neighborhood and sold all my tickets and I learned about that was, you know, you're not selling. You have to understand really what the value of what you're selling in the value was is the people want to help support a local troupe. They didn't really care so much about getting their car wash with. They cared about was, hey, can I help support a local organization? And I think that holds true throughout my entire sales... You know, when I was running the BI team at a hyperion, we learned that, you know, that was a very technical tool. You could sell on bits and bites and an inputs and outputs all day, but what you really had to understand is what people wanted to do with the application. That they were going to build and would value that fraught. So to me it's allays about understanding, you know, the mindset of the customer, and I a tribute that all the way back to those car wash tickets and it's something that many people still struggle with today. So it's excellent for our audience to hear that. So let's talk a little bit about ops panda. You know what is it and what's your role there? So opspan that we are about a three year old company. We are based on a sales analytics and planning application and what we do is we help sales leaders, finance leaders and sales operations that are playing and analyze their sales force. So when you think about an organization today, you've got big, large sales organizations with lots of moving parts and you need to understand what each of those parts contribute to your overall sales plan and what we call true sales capacity. And so you know what are your enterprise reps? Where your commercial reps? You're inside. However, you might think about those sales reps. how do they how do they contribute? Are they knew? Are they tenured? Where are they in season out? And there's a lot of different factors and we've built an application that helps you calculate all of that. And so I have to ask, is there a story behind the name OPS PANDA? So there is actually, if you the technical story is, if you break down the letters, it's operations planning and analysis. So, okay, I have a my youngest daughter or nickname is pandas if she claims to her sisters that, but it's really operations planning in analysis. Excellent. And so when we look at analytics, right, analys is a big deal. Everybody's always trying to figure out how they're going to get the return on their sales investment, especially, you know, the human being investment side of it. How are you seeing companies using analytics today to determine or influence kind of their best sales selling model? So I think what people today UN fundamentally understand that you know, sales is an investment, right, but I think that up until today it has been really difficult to understand what the true return on that investment is. If you think about all the advances that have been made in manufacturing or even in marketing or other parts of the organization and manufacturing. People know exactly if I invest in a new new manufacturing line or a new machine, how much output they're going to get the the same can't be said for sales today, because it's hard to understand if I invest in the new salesperson. They have an expectation of what they want to get out of that person, but they don't necessarily know when they'll when they'll get those and with any true, reliable predictability.

And so we're trying to bring that predictability. We're trying to bring that level of analytic rigor to a sales organization and we see that today in an organization. Some people are more sophisticated than understand that a little better. Fast growing companies are adding people. It's harder to to do that analysis. We allow you to bring in, you know, your past analytics so we can give you history of what's actually happened and then, more importantly, as your plan goes on, you can validate it were, my assumption is correct or I need to make course adjustments, and I think that's really the key thing, is being able to make course adjustments. We all were lived and sell, no matter what industry you're in. Today we sell in a very fluid environment. Right. So competitors change, market dynamics change, all these things change, and so you need to be able to quickly understand what's happening and I need to make a course adjustments. Should I increase hiring because there's a great opportunity, or should I delay higher and a little bit because maybe a products a little bit slower to come the market? Those types of analytics are are super important and we're helping companies embrace those and adjust their adjust their sales investments. And have you seen, I mean sales reps. you know, I think we're seeing a shift in some of the ways the sales reps aro out out there today, but I know in my career there was always those sales reps that were worried if too much analysis was done on their individual performance that perhaps they know they may not be as high ranking as they wanted to be. I'm curious, have you seen any push back when you're dealing with clients around how you balance that, you know, big day to analytics versus the Human Element of sales? I mean I think there is still and I grew up in that environment, right. I grew up in the I think the old environment was sales would say to the rest of the company, give me my number, party what my resources I need and if I don't make my numbers and can come, you know, to whatever you want to do to me. But if I make my number, then don't ask me about how I did it. And I think what's change is that in today's world, especially in so many different revenue models that occur today, if a sales team doesn't make their number, the implications aren't just for that court of the applications have a long tail, right. If you don't make your bookings, you may not have your Billi. Bills, for year because there you have deliver bills or you have subscription review or whatever type of revenue stream. And so people are wanting more visibility into what's going on and I think the better conversation to flip is I think sales organizations are saying, look, I now can explain why I need to make investments earlier or now, or whenever it might..., so that I can be well ahead of the curve six months from now, a year from now, and so they're turning it and saying look, this is good for the organization. I think the other thing too, from a reprospective is, yes, they're, you know, reps, Reps. if they're if they're on top of the heat, they always love having the reports, of having them come out. If you're in the middle or the bottom, you don't like him so much. But I think more importantly, what reps appreciate about data today is you can have a really a real conversation. You can have a manager, can sit down with a reference, a hey, let let's look at all your opportunities, let's look at what's happening within your organization. And, by the way, you know this is why we want to shift your territory, or this is why your quota is justified, because you have this opportunity. And now it's not just hey, we're raising your quota because we said we're raising your quota, it's hey, we're raising your quota because you know have this much of an opportunity and it justifies it, or vice versas. Yeah, we do need the lorrier quota because as the opportunity is drunk and we understand that. I can see that that provides more visability into what's really going on and allows sales to have a more active conversation with other constituencies. Within the company and within manager to Rep relationships as well. And so there's the there's the big data par there's the collection of the data, right. We always used to say, and maybe I'm dating myself here, you know, garbage and garbage out. So there's that, that collecting of the data. But there's also an interpretation layer, right, somebody has to interpret the data and and reattach it to what they're doing. Have you ever seen an instance where poor interpretation of the data has led to, you know, unexpected outcomes? Yeah, I mean I think that what you see sometimes today is, you know, if people sometimes people it's poor interpretation the data. Sometimes they also don't look at the complete picture of the data. I think if you look at still today, a majority of sales organizations and sales leadership, rightfully so, because they're they're expected deliver quarterly results, especially if you're probably traded these days, you have to deliver a quartering quarter out. So a lot of sales leadership is looking at current quarter pipeline, current quarter opportunities, and they look at leads and opportunities. Maybe they're looking at Q plus one. You know, especially as you get through midway quarter, you might start looking to the next quarter, but they're never really the the time horizon isn't much beyond that. What we would say is it's you really need to be thinking about looking beyond that and looking about what investments do I make, because if it takes you to you know, take six months or nine months to ramp arette, I can hire them tomorrow, they won't have any effect until two or three quarters from now. That's important to know. And so I think the bad things that happens when they ignore those that longer term horizon, and it's even not even that long you think about it. It's three quarters a year out kind of thing. That's...

...not a super long horizon. But if you ignore those things, the bad things that can happen is, you know, people will start saying, Che's what happened? Are Our revenue fell or flattened? And then, you know, the first reaction is is we need to expand our target base, and so they might start chasing bad leads or bad opportunities because they're trying to expand their market. You'll see, you know, unfortunately, you'll see leadership changes, you'll see sale heads of sales, changes in heads of sales because you know the the expectation of growth didn't didn't come true and and had that person will say, look, I can tell you that we're going to hit a flat spot because you know we have to investor to do that. And then, by the way, once we hit the five spot, will be investing through that and then will return to our growth curve. And the worst thing that I think I've seen happen is people question the sales investment and and you know, you hit a flat spot in sales, sometimes the Nash reflection is just, okay, let's let's freeze everything, circle the wagon were it we're in reality, it might be you know, might be saying, Hey, we really need to go hire some people because if we want to avoid extending this flat spotter or we want to avoid hitting this again next year, we need to be putting in a team in place that's going to be ready and productive, you know, in three, three four quarters from now. And so you know, there are some bad implications that happen and it's not so much that it's bad interpretation the data. It's probably the horizon on which they look at the date is probably more what I would say is, as cause some of the challenges and so that's that's organizational. Let's talk a little bit more about the sales exacts themselves. Right, we're seeing seeing a shift and kind of from the old school, kind of be tob selling to I don't I have to use the word, but more millennial digital influence types of sales reps. I'm curious when, when sales exacts have the opportunity to have this data, what's the largest hurdle you're seeing that the individual level for them to actually leverage it to improve their performance? I think it is it is weighing between, you know, the needs of a quarterly delivering a quarterly forecast to building a strategic plant and what you's in some of the successful, super successful companies you see a sales leader who said, you know, pipeline and opportunities is critically important, and I would absolutely agree with that. Right, there's you know, I worry about our pipeline and our opportunities all every day, all the time, but they're also great sales leaders are talking about will cheese. I need to be thinking about what's it going to be six months from now, nine months from now, twelve months around, eighteen months from now. How am I get to invest in growth and I think we're we're hoping,... know what, we're seeing some changes. Some of the new sales leadership that's coming in understands that if I can, if the data is there and I can look at trends, I can predict out and and model out what the future looks like, then I can be better off and then I can also go have a conversation with finance or or, you know, my CEO or our board about investing now to have returned in the future, and I think that's where, hopefully, that we'll see the shift go. You know, it's not to say taking away from you got to go out and get deals closed. You got to go and do those things, but you also have to be a lot of portion of time to be thinking about future investment. And so if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like with the right end lytics, you can take some of that lack of predictability out of the sales equation. Right historically it's been a little challenging, at least it in my experience. I've seen organizations struggle with, you know, what is the sales seem really going to produce, you know, quarter over quarter, and so what are you seeing? Companies due to use the analytics to manage their sales teams and turn them into more of a predictable resource. You know, I think that all all businesses, you know, we would all love to have a perfectly perfectly linear business. I've met my entire career looking for that business where I could just have a perfectly linear and know what's going to happen. And we don't. But what you do when what with the data shows is that if you aggregate a bunch of data and you have a large enough organization, you can actually start to say all right, hey, at what what units of time or what units can I use some predictability on some companies, you know, quite honestly, if it's a super wumping business, you might have to look at a reps production according to annually. More often than not quarterly is probably about the right you can say, look, we predict that productivity across this Co Order Reps. so let's say commercial reps in North America should be about this on a quarterly basis and in the averages will work out and you could say I may not know exactly who's going to do it, but I can count on that we will get this production out of that, that group of Reps, and so you can start to have predictability. What we talked about is, you know we call the notion of Boyd Culture. Sales capacity is what is my predictable sales capacity quarter and quarter out across all my different you know, coorts and reps, whether the enterprise, commercial and inside, whether it be, you know, services and license, whether, however, you want to break that up, which you can, you can. The analytics will will allow you to start to correlate a capacity for that and then you can bring those together to give you some some predictability.

And I'd also have to think that that type of data, that type of insight, would facilitate conversations outside of sales. So finally maybe have a conversation that breaks down that silo. You know, I've coming up. It was always sales versus marketing, marketing versus sales. Right, and I would think with this type of data, much like you're seeing on the marketing side with with their use of data, facilitate some more complete organizational conversation. Is that a fair assumption? Absolutely right. I mean, I think you know, you'll never get, you know, sales and marketing is, you know, you may never get a Yankees fan to love the Red Sox. You ever get, you know, sales love marketing or vice versa. But I think what this does is it opens up and it brings a conversation to a ground. Right. It says, look, if we want to expand, we need to we need to provide twenty five percent sales growth next year and to do that we're going to need to add, you know, fifty sales people into an organization of two hundred. So then I can go to mark and say, Hey, we need to support these fifty people. Here's what I'm going to need to support them. We're going to need a pipeline of x per red. We're going to need that. Here's the end. And then marketing can say, okay, that makes sense. And now you look at the marketing analytics to and and marketing analytics has come so far that they can say, okay, I can look at and say, if I need to create this much pipeline, this is how much legion activity I need to do, this is how much investment in marketing and do it and it becomes one, one model that is synked all the way across and even downstream, you can look at it from a services perspective and say hey, we if we sell this much, we're going to have this many new customers that need to be supported by professional services. If that's your model. And and what it does is it allows those conversations to happen cross you know cross function, and then also it allows that other function that sits across all of them, finance, to have great visibility in and be able to see and then tie that back to their overall corporate financial plan. Okay. And so then if we go back into, you know, sales, let's go back to doesn't have yes, I'm going to sorry, listeners, I'm going to do it selfless plug here, but I'm a value selling fan. So how would tools like these analytics help measure the impact of sales training like value selling? Great Question. I don't a value selling fan as well, but you know, one of the things that when I used to roll out sales training and I rolled up value selling multiple times, is we would to how do we measure? How do we measure the effect of this right? How do we get a return on investment? Our application is purpose built for that right. I mean it's purposeful for a lot of things. But absolutely we could say, Hey, we can give you the analysis says when you bring on a new repead in in your current environment, it takes nine months to get productive and...

...that's what you need to plan for. I'd like to if I could reduce ramp time of a new rep from nine months to six months, I gain a quarter productivity right, and that has real value to it. Let's go up and put in value selling and now I can measure that after and I can measure the the new reps that have been brought on that have been through value selling. Are they now ramping in a shorter period than nine months? Are Ramping in six months? Well then that that automatically pays for that training ten times over. So you can measure measure that. And also to or productivity. You could say, Hey, you know across our ten year reps, you know our productivity. There's lots of different studies that show what percentage of reps make quote and things like that. At averages anywhere you see numbers from sixty to seventy five percent. But JEEZ, if I can raise that from my three points across an organization of three hundred Reps. Right, what does that provide? And, by the way, we're going to institute, you know, the sales enablement methodology, like value selling, and I can measure that and and have measurable results. And so that's where I think it closes the loop. Finally, on, you know, the sales enabling side. Yeah, and that's always, I mean, that's always been the big challenge, right, I mean, having having done this, and I'm sure you've seen it too, we know the reps that embrace the methodology and yes, I am, I'm plugging value selling, but something's better than nothing. So whatever you got out there, guys, it's okay. But but if they look at that, the reps that adhere to it, that used it, well, we're always more successful than those that kind of fell back into their own habits. And now it sounds like with, you know, the right application of the analytics, you can actually do the feedback loop to the business. All right, we did this investment, sales enablement. Here the numbers before, here, the numbers after. It's no longer a guessing game. All right, we're writing to show you. Yeah, and absolutely, and we could take it down to the REP level, right, so you could go through it. A manager can go through and say I think we're up a really embrace that. Rep Be so much for rep see really embraced it, you know, and you could compare. We provide the analytics that they could compare the productivity of those, you know, and and then you could have some proof to go back to repee and say, Hey, look, this stuff works. Let me show you your peers. They're all the one slightly better than you because they really embrace it and it becomes a you know, going back to your earlier question, reps, you know, like reporting sometimes and sometimes you're done. And but this is just the it's a great manager to it's just look, I'm not we're not asking you to do this because it was the training to ure right, we're asking to it because it's affected right. We can we have measurable proof here that it's effective. If you want to increase the size of your commission checks, which is ultimate poll for scraps as well as career advancement stuff, then you'll then let me... you why, how to embrace this and how this works. And and I think that's where, you know, you can have some really meaningful conversations and I think it's really beneficial. All right, so let's pay me here a little bit and talk about ops panda, as you're leading the organization of there. What is your guys current Stu business issue, your top strategic objective you guys are trying to achieve? Well, I mean, given our stage of company, we are still a very young company with a very small sales forest. So we are out evangelizing our message right and I think part of this is there has never been a a application like ours in the market before. Most people do these concepts in in spreadsheets. I often tell the story of if you think about the leads and opportunities side, you know, forecast and pipeline. They're literally billions of stollars of being spent on crum and marketing automation. And yet people, and I've talked to every size organization, from very small but to the largest sales organizations, and they manage for their sales for us on a hundred dollar desktop tool, you know. And and so part of what our challenge is this to say hey, there is a better way and there is an application now out there that can do that. And and so that's we're in a little bit of a market creation, cell sales right now, and market awareness, which is fun because when people get it, you know, we've got some great, great customers and they get it and they embrace it into like this really is making a difference in in our lives. And it's sometimes it's as small as it all. I don't work on the weekends now, you know, or but oftentimes what it is is, hey, we really found a real gap in our capacity or we found this or, you know, we needed to make adjustments and allowed us to do a course correction quick more quickly. I was in with a customer the other day and I saw it was amazing. I saw a report. We did it on the fly, kind of report, and it took us about five minutes to get the answer and the person, you know, who is viewing it, she said that would normally take us twenty four to forty eight hours to get and she said this is going to change our you know, the way we do business. And so so that's really fun and that's we're in a really fun stage of that and every every step forward is a win and, you know, and we have some fun with it, but it's challenging, it's you know, you still go out and you still have to understand what customers pains are, what their needs are and things along those lines. And then, you know, we still through go through all the basic selling steps. And so you've got a growing sales team. Are you guys using the apps pain to tools internally yourselves? I do. I use it. I've done our you know, I use it all the time. I've done our five year growth playing on it. So I use it. You...

...know, I guess I hate the you know, the expression of eat your own dog foods, not most real elegant one. I had an old Boston said, you know, we drink our own champagne. I guess that sounds a little better. I'm a big believer in that and that we use our own application. So we do. And and the reps. how the reps on the team, I'm going to assume when you're hiring building the team, they haven't seen a tool like this before. So how are they finding working with this type of analytics, you know, really built into the DNA? What they're doing? I mean they're trying to sell it, but they're also using it. Have the reps responded? They responded really well. I mean I think that our reps are kind of early a vandalists. You know, the reps really get it and so they embrace it. One of our newest reps, she was actually a customer and so she really got it and and was passionate about it. And so, you know, I think that it's it's a the whole company, whether it be from developer to sales to marketing. We all are very, very passionate. We absolutely believe what we're doing because we really do think this is a fundamental change in the way people will do business and we we can prove and we can see with the customers that we've been forced up to work with that it makes it makes a tangible difference in their business. And so it's one of those were, you know, I always in selling stuff. I always wanted to sell stuff that I would be happy selling, you know, standing on a soapbox talking about and this is one that I clearly feel that way. It's you know, we really feel like we're in the reps are have embraced that and they they share it and they share it in the way we measure the business, you know. So we are on a shared mission. Well, the passions critical right, I mean the buyer will feel that, especially these days, you got to have somebody who believes that what they're doing isn't just cool, but it is going to make a difference right, it is going to provide that positive impact. So I'm glad to hear that that's that's part of what you guys are doing. So towards the end of each interview I ask kind of two standard questions. The first one is as a revenue executive, as a CEO, that makes you in the politically correct terms of prospect in sales. It's a target, and so I would love it if you would help our audience understand if somebody's trying to get in front of you, somebody you don't know who wants to capture your attention, establish credibility, believe they have a solution for you, what works best to capture your attention and make that first meeting happen. You know, it's a good question because I get solicited all the time and I think you know, I would admit to today, sales reps, I think it's harder than it has ever been to get the attention of buyers...

...because there's so much there's so much noise out there right there is all the social channels, there's email blast or you know, and hardly anybody picks up the phone anymore. Rights so I think it's hard. But I think what, you know, part of it is is if you provide me something that's interest to me, content wise, you will get my attention, meaning if you can slightly understand what my business is or slightly understand what I might be going through and provide me, and it can be something as small as a you know, literally a quote or something that says, you know, hey, did you did you know ten percent of businesses that do this, you know, art I can't be able good example off on my head, but you know, the providing, then I'll read the next sets right. Then I'll go down and I'll continue to look and and I just had an experience with the sales weapon and he he kept after me, but every time he contacted me had a little bit of content and and to the point where then I call them back and said, Hey, you've earned you know, you've earned the conversation, so let's have the conversation. And Application looks pretty interesting. So, you know, I think it's that. I know it's hard. I think it's hard to get people to do that. I send out, you know, I call on prospects and I share the frustration and so I always try and you know, read what people send me and I do try and get that. But there are some that, you know, they clearly I'm just one of a number said it to me and they're hoping it's a a little bit of a spray and pray. That's not going to work and I don't think that works in today's Today's environment, because there's just so much noise out in the channel right now. I also think social is a you know, like things like weading articles and are interesting because, you know, again, if you if you hit get to me with with good content, then you know it piques my interest. Excellent. And so the last question we ask we call our acceleration insight. There's one thing you could tell sales people that you you believe would make them, once they hear it, better instantly tomorrow, one piece of advice that you would give them. What would it be and why? The one piece of advice I always give sales people is be curious, be intellectually curious, and what I mean by that is actually be interested in what your customers or your prospects are doing for a business. You know, I think it's don't use view them as a prospect or as a buyer. View them as an interesting company you'd like to learn...

...about, or interesting organization or whatever. IPING be curious about their business, because if you're curious, that will come through in all your communications, that will come through your sales presentations. I'll give a quick example. You know, back in the old days of a before Kikos was bought by the Fedex, I was down I made a call down there with a the sales wrap and and you know, we went and called and was senior member of the on the finance team and we were selling him financial planning and we're going through the meeting and such an I'm a literally on the way down. I've been reading about Xerox going out of business right and that was back when Xerox was kind of in jeopardy of going out of business. And I said to and I said so, you know, you guys worried all about the Xerox and he was all, my God, because that's what I'm spending a hundred percent of my time. And he's we are the weird zerox's largest customer outside of the federal government and if they go out of business we don't know what we will do because you know, we have a litterally thousands, thousands of machines and parts and all the times stuff. And we talked probably for twenty thirty minutes about it was just interesting and I had nothing to do with our deal, but it was just I was curious. I was it was fascinating to me and and we walked out in the in my rep setting is wow, how did you know to ask that? I said I was just curious about it. Right, I read about it. This is curious and and about two months later the deal was coming to fission. We got held up and and I needed to make a call on him and ask him to help push the deal through it and because I've had that relationship, we were able to get the deal done. And I think you know, I don't want to I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, as I've seen so many examples of great reps doing in and stops just me, but I always tell people that being curious is your most important asset. Actually be interested and if you're not, if you're not selling something to people, who you could be interested in what they do, then maybe it's hard to find something else because it's you know that that comes through in your conversations. Yeah, the Carey, I agree with you one hundred percent. Curiosity, especially today, you know, curiosity is I see reps who are curious, who engaging customers out of out of their own genuine sense of all right, essentially, that's what we're talking about. That's where you see that connection happen. Right. It makes it less of a hey, I got this widget, do you want to buy it, and it becomes more of a human connection. I think curiosity plays a huge role in that, you know, and I think we needed not forget that, even with all the technology and all the change and things like that, selling is still a personal thing and you know, we there's a lot of different mediums in which we do it, but people still buy from people they like and I don't think that's changed and I think that's... important thing to remember. And people genuinely like people who are interested in them, and I think that's where that curiosity comes through. Perfect, perfect done. If a listeners interested in talking more about what we touched on today, what's the best way to get in contact with you. So people who feel free to email me directly. I'll be careful how to open up, but it's a kindo a opps pandacom, but also to our website is ops Pandacom, and its more information there. But you know, welcome, welcome in any your actions. Thankscell and John. I can't thank you enough for taking the time. It's been great having on the show. Well, Chad, thanks so much. This is great. I was love talking about sales. It's it's been my entire career and I'm passionate about it and they're always appreciated and also to I am a big fan of the value selling methodology and you guys so happy to do it. Appreciate that. All right, everyone that does it for this episode, please check us out of be Tob Rev exactcom. Share the episode out there. Friends, families, Co workers. If you like what you here, please leave us a review on itunes. We do look at those to determine types of guests to bring on. So you guys will keep listening and are getting value out of it and until next time, we have value prime solutions with you all. Nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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