The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

Jon Kondo on Using Sales Analytics Across the Entire Organization

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

With a rise of big data, there are more and more opportunities for companies to leverage their analytics and drive different approaches to business return.

We sat down with Jon Kondo, CEO of OpsPanda, to learn about how organizations are using sales analytics to plan their success.

You Ere listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedigated, ow e executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies were tools and resources. You come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: Welcome every win to theBTO B Revenue Executive Experience on your host Chad Sanderson. They weretalking about the importance of sales analytics across the entireorganization, with the continued focus on big data, their opportunities forcompanies to leverage or analytics to drive different approaches and businessreturn. We want to dive into that today and to help us with that. We have JohnCondo Co of OPSPINDA. John. Thank you for taking time to be on the show today. Chad thanks so what's for having happyto be here excellent, so we always ask off the all question out of the out ofthe gate. If you think about back over your life for your career, is there oneyou know defining moment or story that you go back to some lesson, that Youvelearned this kind of helped shape your perspective on things? What would thatevent be, and what was that story, and why was it so important? You know shout. I think when I thinkback I go all the way back to probably at think sixth grade, and I was a boyscout and our fundraiser to raise money to go andcamp. That summer was to do a car wash and so all of us, I think, took twentytickets and had to go to our neighborhoods and tell them for a dollar, I'm probably gettingmyself by the price. But but you know I went out dutifully in myneighborhood and knockedown doors and came back with. Ithink nineteen tickets and one sale and pretty dejected and hys parents werehaving friends o Rud and, and he was a professional salesguy, andI mean, if you think, about the old time Journeig in sales, folks, he hewas a professional salesman and I thought Herry go easy mark they're overfor fordinner with my parents I went up to in I said: Hey. Would you like tobuy a car wash ticket e said, stop right. There, Yocaese you're, notselling Carwashti, gets Gaus. Try this approach and he said, ask he said: Tell Meo Lhatyour you're,raising money to support Bullica boy, Scott troop to be able to go to campand bould they like to help support that effort for a bunch of local kidsto go to camp and by the way they get a car wash along along with that, and hegoes pr and he had me practice it two or three times I did it and, and I think he bought a ticket but thenmore for the in back out. I went back out into the other part of theneighborhood and sold all my tickets, and I learned about that was you know,you're, not selling. You have to understand really what the value ofwhat you're selling in the value was. Is that people want to help support alottle bit troup. They didn't really care so much about getting theircarwashed. What they cared about was hey. Can I help support a localorganization, and I think that holds true throughout my entire sales career.You know when I was running the BI team...

...and at I parion we learned that youknow that was a very technical tool. You could sell bits and bites and andinputs an outputs all day, but what' You really had to understand, as mhatpeople wanted to do with the application that they were going tobuild an wet value that frougt. So to me, it's always about understanding. Youknow the mindset of the customer and and attrue Ye that all the way back tothose car wash tigkings and it's something that many peoplestill struggle with today. So it's excellent for audience to hear that. So,let's talk a little bit about Offpanda, you know what is it and andwhat your role there so Ofanda we are about a three year oldcompany. We are based on a sales analytics and planingapplication, and what we do is we help sales leaders, finance leaders andsales operations that are playing an analyze, er sales. For so when youthink about an organization today, you've got biglarge sales organizations with lots of movie parts, and you need to understandwhat each of those parts contribute to your overol salespan en what we calltrue sales capacity. And so you know what are your enterprise res for yourcommercial rubs you're inside, however, you might think about post sales rups.How do they? How do they contribute? Are they new? Are they tenured? Where are they in season? Al And enandthere's a lot of different factors and we built an application that helps youcalculate all of that, and so I have to ask: Is there a storybehind the name OPSPANDA? So there is actually, if you, the technical story, is if you breakdown the letters, it's operations planning an analysis. So, okay, I have my youngest daughter. Hernickname is Pandis if she claims to her sisters Dat, but it's really operations planing ananalysis excellent. So when we look at analytics right,analyxts is a big deal. Everybody's always trying to figure out how they'regoing to get the return on their sales investment, especially you know thehuman being investment side of it. How are you seeing companies usinganalytics today to determine or influence kind of their best saleselling model? So I think Whith people todayunfundamentally understand that you know sales is an investment right, butI think that up until today it as been reallydifficult to understand what the true return on that investment is. If youthink about all the advances that have been made in manufactoring or even inmarketing or other parts of organization and manufacturing peopleknow exactly if I invest in a new new manufastoring one or a new machine, howmuch output they're going to get the the same can't be said for sales today,because it's hard to understand of if I invest in a new sales person, they havean expectation of what they want to get out of that person. But they don'tnecessarily know...

...when the when they'll get those andwith any true, reliable predictibility, and so we're trying to bring thatpredictability. We're trying to bring that level of analytic rigor to a sales organization,and we see that today in an organization, some people are moresophisticated t an understand that a little better fast growing companies are adding people it's harder to to dothat analysis. We allow you to bring in you know your pastsaanalytic, so we cangive you history of what's actually happened and then, more importantly, asyour plan goes on, you can validate. It were myassumptions correct, O. I need to make coarse adjustments and I think that'sreally. The key thing is being able to makecourse adjustince. We all Werk, live and sell, no matter what industryyou're in today, we selt in a very fluid environment right, so competitors change, market dynamics,change all these things change, and so you need to be able to quicklyunderstand, what's happening and Doi need to make a course adjustment Soultd,I increase hiring because there's a great opportunity, or should I delayhiring a little bit because maybe a product a little bit slower to come themarket. Those types of antallycs are super important and we're helpingcompanies embrace those and adjust their adjust their sales in vestments and,have you seen? I mean sales raps? You know, I think, we're seeing a shift insome of the ways the Selles wrop droppd out there today. But I know in mycareer there was always those sales reps that were worried. If too muchanalysis was done on their individual performance, perhaps they you know they may not beas high ranging as they wanted to be. I'm curious: Have you seen any pushbackwhen you're dealing with clients around how you balance that you know big dataanalytics versus the Human Element of sales? I mean, I think, that there is still- and I grew up in thatenvartment right. I grew up in the the the I think the old environment was sales would say to the rest of thecompany. Give me my number trio, like my resources, I need, and if I don'tmake my numfret and can come, you know to whatever you want to do to me. Butif I make my number then don't ask me about how I did it, and I think what'schanged is that in today's world, especially in so many different reveuemodels that occur today, if a sale steem doesn't make their number theimplications aren't just for that quarter. E ipplications have a longtail right. If you don't make your bookings, you may not have yourbilables for a year because there you have deliverables or you havesubscription Rvyou or whatever type of revenue stream, and so people arewanting more visibility in to what's going on, and I think the betterconversation to flip is, I think, sales organizations are saying. Look. I nowcan explain why I need to make...

...investments earlier or now or whetever.It might be so that I can be well ahead of the curve six months from now a yearfrom now and so they're. Turning it and say, look, this is good for theorganization. I think the other thing too, from a reprorspective is yes there.You know reps reps, if they're, if they're on top of the heap, they alwayslove having the reports ano having the co O Aboutif you're in the middle orthe bottom, you don't like them so much, but I think more importantly, wouldreps appreciate about data today. Is You can have a really a realconversation? You culd? Have a manager can sit down with you rep and say: Hey,let let's look at all your opportunities. Let's look at what'shappening within your organization and by the way you know this is why we wantto shift your territory. This is why your quota is justified, because youhave this opportunity, and now it's not just hey we're, raising your quotabecause we said we're raising your quota. It's hey we're raising yourquota because you know how this much of an opportunity and it justifies it orvice versus yeah. We do need the lary quota because the opportunity is drunkand we understand that I can see athe provideed, formovisibility andto,what's really going on and allows sales to have a more active conversation withother constituntencies within the company and within manager torerelationships as well, and so there's the there's, the big data par there'sthe collection of the data right, we always used to say- and maybe I'mdating myself here. You know garbage and garbage out so there's that thatcollecting of the day but there's also an interpretation layer right. Somebodyhas to interpret the data and reattach it to what they're doing have you everseen an instance where poor interpretation of the data has led toyou know unexpected outcomes. Yeah I mean I think that what what yousee sometimes today is you know if people sometimes people, it's poorinterpretation n the day that sometimes they also don't look at the completepicture of the data. I think, if you look at still today, a majority ofsales organizations and sales leadership, rightfully so, becausetheyre they're expected deliver quarterly results, especially if you'reprobably traded these days. You have to deliver a quarter and quarter out so alot of sales leadership is looking at current quarter, pipeline currentCarter Opportunities and then look at leads and opportunities. Maybe they're.Looking at q plus one you know, especially as you get through midplayCortyr, you might start leading to the next quarter, but they're. Never reallythe time horizon isn't much beyond that. What we would say is that you reallyneed to be thinking about looking beyond that and looking about all right.What investments do I make, because if it takes me to you, know, take sixmonths or nine months to Ramparep, I can hire them tomorrow. They won't haveany effect until two or three quarters from now and that's important to know,and so I think the bad things that happens when they ignore those thatlonger term horizon, and it's even not even that long. When you think about it,it's three quarters the year out kind...

...of thing: that's not a superlonghorizon, but if you ignore those things, the bad things that can happen is youknow, people start saying cheese. What happened our revenue fell or flatten,and then you know the first reaction is: We need to expand our target based andso they might start chasing bad leads or TBAT opportunities, because they'retrying to expand their market Guilsey. You know, unfortunately, you'll seeleadership, changes, you'll, see, sale, heads of sick bails changes in heads and sales because youknow the the explication of growth. Didnt didn't come true and had thatperson wo to say look I can tell you that we're going to hit a flat spot,because you know we have to invest or to dothat and then, by the way, once we hit the fispot will b be investing throughthat and then will return to our our growth Turp and the worst thing that Ithink I've seen happen is people question the sales investment and youknow if you hit a flat spot in sales. Sometimes e Nats, Ra fection is jist.Okay, let's, let's freeze everything circle the wagon wer were in reality.It might be, you know, might be saying: Hey. We really need to go hire somepeople, because if we want to avoid extending this flas pot- or we want toavoid hitting this again next year, we need to be putting me in a team inplace. That's going to be ready and productive. You know in three threefour quarters from now, and so you know there are some bad implications thathappen, and it's not so much that it's badinterpretat on the Dat. It's probably the the horizon on which they look at theDat is probably more what I would say s as cause some of the challenges, and sothat's that's organizationy. Let's talk a little bit more about the salesexacts themselves right, we're seeing seeing a shift and kind of from the oldschool kind of be to be selling to I don't I to use the word, but moremillennial, digital influence, types of of sales, reps, I'm curious when, whensales exact have the opportunity to have this data, what's the largesthurdle you're, seeing that the individual level for them to actuallyleverage it to improve their performance, I think it is. It is way between. You know the needsof a quarterly deliberaty, quarterly forecast to building a strategic plant and what you see in some of thesuccessful super successful companies, you see a sales leader who said youknow, pipeline and opportunities is critially, important N. I wouldabsolutely agree with that right there's. You know. I worry about ourpipon and our opportunities every day. All the time but ther are also greatsales. SOITERS are talking about well Jeez. I need to be thinking about.What's it going to be six months from now nine months for ther Altollon, so,eighteen months for now, how am I going to invest in growth and I think we'rewe're hoping you know what we're seeing...

...some changes. Some of the new salesleadership. That's coming ind understands that. If I can, if data isthere- and I can look at trends, I can prejict out and and model out what the future looks likethat I can be better off and then I can also go. Have a conversation with Financeer, or you know my CEO, or arebored about investing now to have return in the future, and I thinkthat's where hopefully tha will see the shift go. You know it's not to say taking awayfrom you got to go out and get t feels closhes. You got to go and do thosethings, but you also have to be a lotting portion of time to be thinking aboutfuture investment, and so, if I'm hering you correctly, it soundslike with the right inlynix. You can take some of that lack of predictability out of the salesequation right. Historically, it's been a little challenging, at least it in myexperience, I've seen organization struggle with you know. What is thesale seem really going to produce? You know quarter over a quarter, and sowhat are you seeing companies dud to use the analytics to manage their salesteams and turn them into more of a predictable resource? You know, I think that all all businesses, you know we would alllove to have a perfectly perfectly lineor businessive et my entire creer.Looking for that business, where I could just have a perfectly lineer andknow what's going to happen, and we don't, but what you do when what Waththe day this shows is that if you aggreate Onchof data- and you have alarge enough forganization, you can actually start to say all right, heyhat what what units of time or what inits can I use in predictability andsome companies. You know, quite honestly, if it's a superwamthingbusiness, you might have to look at a rep production. I, according to Annali,more often than ot qorterly is probably about the right. You can say what wepredict that productivity or cost this coorder Repso. Let's say commercialraps in North America should be about this on a quarterly basis and and theaverages will work out- and you can say I may not know exactly who's going todo it, but I can count on that. We will get this production out of that thatgroup of raps, and so you can start to have predictability and what we talkabout is you know we call the notion. OP, W called true sales capacity is.What is my predictable sales capacity quarter and quarter out across all mydifferent? You know: COORTS AF Reps, whether Vieta prize commercial andinside whether it be you know, services and license whether Howe you want tobreak that up, but you can you can the analytics? W will allow you to start tocorrelate a capacity for that, and then you canbring those together to give you some...

...some predictability, but I also have tothink that that type of date, in that type of insight, would facilitateconversations outside of sales. So, finally, maybe have a conversation thatbreaks down that silo. You know I've coming up. It was always sales versusmarketing, marketing versus sales right, and I would think, with this type ofdata, much like you're, seeing on the marketing side, with with their use ofDatat, facilitates a more complete organizational conversation. Is that afair assumption? Absolutely right? I mean, I think you know you'll, neverget you know sales and marketing is youknow you may never get a Yankees fan to love the Red Soever Geto n SaloMarketing Orvicen Erso, but I think what this does that opens up and itbrings a e conversation took common ground right. It says: Look if we wantto expand. We need to. We need to provide twentyfive percent sales growth next year and to do that, we're going to need to addyou know fifty sales people into an organization of two hundred so that I can go to mark and say hey.We need to support these fifty people, here's what I'm going to need tosupport them. We're going to need a pipeline, a x, Peret, we're going toned that here's, the and, and then marketing can say. Okay, that makessense, and now you look at the marketing analytics to and and marketing analytics has come so farthat they can say. Okay, I can look at it an say if I need to create this muchpiepine. This is how much leagues and activity I need to do. This is how muchinvestment in Marketingand do it and it becomes one one model that his sinkedall the way across and even downstream. You could look at it from a serviceesperspective and say: Hey we. If we sell this much we're going to have this manynew customers that need to be supported by professional services. If that'syour model and and what it does is it allows those conversations to have enpross. You Know Cross this function and then also it allows that other functionthat sits across all of them finance to have great visibility in and be able tosee and then tie that back to their ovall corporate financial plan. Okay,and so then, if we go back into you know sales, let's go back to Salls name,yes, I'm Goinna, sorry listeners, I'm Gongta! Do I selfless plug here, but I'm a valeyselling fan. So how wouldtools like these analytics help measure the impact of sales training like valueselling great question? I don't a valleysellingfan as well, but you know one of the things that when I used to roll outsales training and I rolled up talue selling multiple times is we to how dowe measure? How do we measure EFFECTOF US right? How do we get a ETURN ONINVESTMENT? Our applocation is purpose builed for that right I mean it'sPurpocebul for a lot of things, but absolutely we could say hey. We cangive you the Alysand says when you bring on a new reped in in your currentenvironment. It takes nine months to...

...get productive and that's what you needto plan for I'd like to. If I could reduce rantime of a new rap from ninemonths t six months, I gain a quarter of productivity right and that has realvalue to it. Well, let's go ONTA put in value Selli and now I can veagune thatafter and I can measure the new reps that have been brought onthat have been through Valley seling. Are they now ramping in a shorterperiod than nomonths or RAMPANC six ponts? Well, then, that thatautomatically pays for that training. Ten Times over, and so you can measuremeasure that and also to work pordactivity, you could say: Hey. Youknow across Er Tenet graps. You know our productivity, there's lots ofdifferent studies, hat show what percentage of raps make quote andthit's like that. It averages anywhere ryousee numbers from sixty to seventyfive percent, but JESUF. I can raise that from by three points across anorganization of three hundred raps right. What does that provide and bythe way we're going to institute? You know a sales ef ablementmethonology like valueselling, and I can measure that and and and havemeasurable results, and so that's where I think it closes the loop. Finally, on youknow the sales on Theblon side yeah, and that's always I mean that's- alwaysbeen the big challenge right I mean having having done this and I'm sureyou've seen it too. We know the raps that embrace themethdology and yes, I am I'm plugging Valy Seling, but somethings better thannothing. So, whatever you got out there guys it's okay, but but if they look at that, the repstat adhered to it. That used it ellwe're. Always more successful thanthose that kind of fell back into the road habits, and now it sounds likewith you know the right application of the analytics. You can actually do thefeedback loop to the Business Aal Right. We did this investment sales andablement here the numbers before here the numbers after it's no longer aguessing game right, we'reright in O, show Yo, yeah and absolutely, and wecould take it down into the rep level right, so you could go through in amanager can go through and SA. I think we're a a really embrace it. REPI T somuch for P. SE really embraced it. You know, and you can compare, we providethe analytics that they can compare the productivity, those you know and andthen you could have some proof to go back to REPE and say: Hey, look! Thisstuff works. Let me show you your peers, they're all doing slightly better thanyou, because they really embrace it and it becomes a you know going back to your earlierquestion Reps. you know like reporting, sometimes- and sometimes you don't andand but this is just a it's- a great Mangi toits. Just look, I'm not we'renot asking Yo to do this because it was the training tojoure right. We'reasking do it because it's affected right. We can. We have measurable proofhere that it's effective if you want to increase the size of your commissioncheck, which is ultimate Pol for ospreps...

...as well as career advancement and stuff,then you'll, the. Let me show you wha how to embrace this and how this works,and I think that's where you know you can have some reallymeaningful conversation. So I think it's really beneficial all right. So,let's pit e here a little bit and talk about Opspanda as you're leading heorganization of there. What is your guy's current business issue? You topstrategic objective. You guys are trying to achieve. Well, I mean Givin our stage a company.We are still a very young company with a very small sales forestso. We are outovangelizing our messoge right and I think part of this is is there hasnever been a application like ours. In the Barkin, before most people do theseconcepts in in spreadsheets. I often tell the storyof if you think about the leads and opportunities side, you know forecast and pipepine theyreliterally, billions of stylars am Mein spent on Saoun and Markling Autimation,and yet people and I've talked to every size organization from very small butto the largest sales organizations and they manage for their sales forus on ahundred Dar best top tool. You know and and so part of what ourchallengees this to say, Hey. There is a better way and there is anapplication now out there that can do that, and- and so that's were in alittle bit of a market creation, sell sales right now and market awareness,which is fun because when people get it you know,we've got some great great customers and they get it and they embrace it,and they like this really is making a difference in our lives. And it'ssometimes it's as small as hitow. I don't work on the weekends nowyou know, but oftentimes what it is is hey. We really found a real gap in ourcapacity or we found this or you know we needed to make adjustments andallowed us to do a course. Correction, quick, more quickly. I was in with acustomer the other day and I saw O it was amazing. I saw a report, we didn't on the flykind of report and it took us about five minutes to get the answer and theperson you know who is feeling it. She said that would normally take us twentyfour to fortyeigh hours to get, and she said this is going to change our youknow the way we do business, and so so that's really fun and at we're in areally fun stage of that and every every step forward. I is a win and you know- and we have some fun with it,but it's challenging it's. You know you still go out and you still have tounderstand what customers pains are what their needs are and thinks alongthose lines. And then you know we still too go through all the basic hellingsteps, and so you've got a growing sales team. Are you guys using theopfspaing te tools internally yourselves? I do I use it. I've doneour you know. I use it all the time, but I've done ve our five year growthplan on it.

So I use it to you know. I guess I hate the you know theexpression of eath or own dog fhods, not most real, elegant one. I had anold Bussin Tai. You know we drink our own champagne. I guess that sounds alittle bit o I'm a big believer in that in that we use our own application. So we do and the reps hove out of the repson the team, I'm Goul to assume when you're, hirhe and building a team, theyhaven't seen a tool like this before, so how are they finding working withthis type of analytics? You know really built into the DNA of what they'redoing I mean they're, trying to sell it, but they're also using ind. Have thereps responded? They've responded really. Well, I meanI think, that R urfs are kind of early abandalist. You know our reps really get it, and so theyembrace it. One of our newest grops, she was actually a customer, and so hereally got it and and was passionate about it, and so you know, I think that it's it's lake, the whole company rather be fromdeveloper to sales to marketing. We all are very, very passionate. We Aveabsolutely believeable ere dong, because we really do think this is afundamental change in the way people will do business and we we can prove- and we can see with thecustomers that we've been forcedup to work with that it makes makes a tangible diference in theirbusiness, and so it's one of those where you know iiwas in selling stuff.I always wanted to sell stuff that I would be happy Seli. You know standingon a soalbox talking boutain, and this is one that I clearly feel that way.It's you know. We really feel like we're in the repsar have em brace that an they share it and they share in the way we measurethe business you know. So we are on a shared mission. Well, on the passions critical right Imean I, the buyer will feel that especially these days, you got to havesomebody who believes that what they're doing isn't just cool, but it is goingto make a difference right- is going to provide that positive impact. So I'mglad to hear that that's that's part of what you guys are doing so towards theend of each interview. I ask kind of two standard questions. The first oneis as a revenue executive as a Cyono. Thatmakes you in the politically correct terms of prospect in Saleit' a target, and so I would love it if you wouldhelp our audience understand if somebody's trying to get in front ofyou, somebody, you don't know who wants to capture your attention, establishcredibility, believe they have a solution for you, what works best tocapture your attention and make that first meeting happen. You know that's a good question,because I get soliited all the time and I think you know I will admit to today's saleswreps. I think it's harder than it has everieed to get the attention to buyers,because there is so much there's so...

...much noise out there right. There iseall the social channels, there's email, blast, ther, you know and and howdanybody picks up the phone anymore right answer it. So I think it's hard, but I think whatyou know part of it is is, if you provide me something that' ofinterest to me, content wise Youl get my intention, meaning if you an canslightly understand what my business is or slightly. I understand what I might be going through andprovide me, and it can be something as small as a you know, literally a quote orsomething that says you know: Hey did did you know tinfer sin of businesses that do thisBein art and I can't think a good example, the top my head, but you knowthe providing them I'll leave the next sentence. Right then I'll go down andI'll continue to look and- and I just had an experience with thesales repan and he he kept after me. But every time he contacted me had alittle bit of content and and to the point where then I calle thim back andsaid: Hey, you've earned, you know, You'e earned the conversation. So let'shave ha conversation and his application looks pretty interesting.So you know, I think it's that I know it's hard. I think it's hard to getpeople to to do that. I send out you know, I call on prospects and I share the frustration, and so Ialways try and you know read what people send me and Ido try and get that. But there are some that you know they. Clearly I'm justone of a number they've sent it. I mean and they're hoping it's A. U no a littlebit of a spray and pray, that's not going to work, and I don't think thatworks in today's Today's environment because there's aso much noise out in the channel right now. I also think social is a. You know,like things like waiting articles and are interesting, because you know again, if you, if you hit Getto me with with good content, thenI'm you know it piks my interest axcellent. So the last question weasked we called our acceleration insight. There's one thing you couldtell sales people that you could, you believe, would make them once they hearit better instantly tomorrow. One piece of advice that you would give them.What would it be and why thethe one piece of advice I alwaysgive sales people is bee, curious, be intellectuallycurious and what I mean by that is actually be interested in what yourcustomers or your prospects are doing for pusiness. You know, I think it'sdon't just view them as a prospect or as a buyer Voum as an interestingcompany, you'd like to learn about our...

N, interesting organization or whatevermy pin be curious about their business, because, if you're curious, that willcome through in all your communications that will come through your salespresentations. I'll give a quick example. You know back in the old days of before, tencos was bought by e fedx. Iwas down, I made it, I call down there witha well the sales re up and, and you know we went and called, and it was senior member of the on the financeteam and we were selling an financial planning and we're going through the meeting andsuch at on the litteraly other way down. I've been reading about serox going out of business right, andthat was back when xerix was kind of in jeopardy of going out of business, andI said, O Mi Saidso. You know you guys worried all about a ser ox and BCAUS.Oh my God, because that's what I'm spending a hundred percent of my timeand he's weird that beer zerox is largest customers outside of thefederal government and if they go out of business, we don't know what we willdo, because you know we have literally thousand thousands of machines andparts and all Thas kind of stuff, and we talk probably for twenty thirty minutes about it. It wasjust interesting. It had nothing to do with our deal, but it was just. I wascurious. I was it was fascinated to me and- and we walked out on the in my repsithe was how did you know t as o this aid? I was just curious about it. Right nread about it. This is curious and and about two months later the deal wascoming to Critian we got held up and- and I needed to make a call on him andask him to help push the deal through it and because I've had thatreelationship we were able to get the deal done, and I think you know I don'twant to I'm not trying to Pak myself on the back as I've seen so many examplesof great reps doing in it's not just me, but I always tell people that being curious. Is your most importantasset actually be interested and if you're not, if you're, not selling something topeople who you could be interested in what they do, then, maybe it's hime tofind something else, because it's you know that that comes through in yourconversations, yeah the care. I agree with you. One hundred percent curiosity,especially today, you know curiosity- is I see reps, who are curious, whoengage in customers out of out of their own genuine sense of all rightessentally. That's what we're talking about. That's where you see thatconnection happened right. It makes it less of a hey got this widgit. Do youwant to buy it and it becomes more of a human connection. I curiosity hat playsa huge role in that you know, and I think we need to not forget that evenwith all the technology and all the change and things like that, selling isstill a personal thing and you know there's a lot of different mediums inwhich we do it, but people still lie from people theylike, and I don't think that's changed...

...and I think that's an important thingto remember and people genuinely like people who are interested in them, andI think that's wher that curiosity comser, perfect Pervat Donif alisteners interested in talking more about what we touched on today. What'sthe best way to get in contact with you, so people do feel free to email medirectly, I'll, be careful how to open it, butit's Ta Condo at offs, Pandacom, but also to our website, is oxtandacoman and there's more information there. But you know welcome welcome inTaeractions Hinkcellen John. I can't thank you enough for taking the timeit's been great, having you on the show. Well, a thank so much. This is Great Ey.I always love talking about sales. It's it's been my entire career and I'mpassionate about it and te're always appreciated and hostile to.I am a big fan of he vally selling methodology and you guys re so happy todo it appreciate that all right, everyonethat does it for this episode, please check us out of B to b revezeccom Shurethe episode out there, friends, families goworkers. If you like whatyou hear, please leave US review on itunes. We do look at those todetermine types of guests to bring on, so you guys will keep listening and orgetting value out of it and until next time we have value prime solutions withyou all nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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