The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Jeff Koser on The Power of the Voice of the Customer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When you look at your best prospects and customers, they should be just as distinctive as zebras.

That was the idea behind Jeff Koser’s book Selling to Zebras. Jeff noticed that the companies he was working with had the same problem, even though they thought they were unique. So he just wrote a story.

It’s gone on to be wildly successful, and Jeff has now written another book called The Voice of the Customer. Listen in to hear why you shouldn’t sell without the secrets in that book.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Welcome every wone to the B to brevenue executive experience. I'm your host Chad Sanderson today we're talkingabout the power of the voice of Customer Voc for those that have heardthose letters before and why it's so critical for sales, exact to understandand sales reps to utilize, aud Git to keep in mind people buy from people andpeople buy for emotional reasons and then justify with logic, sounderstanding the customers critical totackloe. That topic day we have withis Jeff COZER SEO OF SAL software firm selling to zebras. Some of you haveprobably heard of Jeff know his name he's. Also an award witting author ofwidely respected book selling to zebras was recognizeding Andrew clanse's. Thesales grews is one of the best sales authors of wall time and as they saw itafter Kino speaker we're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated El executives train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies for tools and resources, you've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one so jeff. First, I want tothank you for taking time to be on the show today, Hey Jad, thank you. Thatwas a great introduction. Thank you. I practiced in the mirror. So before we jump in, we ask all of ourguess kind of an initial first question: U, so people can get a sense for whothey are and you've had quite the career and I'm curious. If you lookback, was there a defining moment or something that happened? That taughtyou a lesson that you go back to over and over again kind of what was thatmoment? Woul D, You learn himd. Why do you keep going back to it? So so I saw your question whith. Youwere gracious enough to Om AAs yeah exactly and- and you knowthe here's- The lesson jump jump when you feel the urge and what I mean bythat I was with actually with with the computer side of the same company youreferenced before, and I had sold a pretty large software deal.It was about one point: one million and the the services for that were going tobe significant. Hadn't really been completely worked out yet, but it wouldhave ended up being multiple millions over the years. It was an ERP solution.You K, ow, it was to a division of Textran, so it's you know: MulteMultenational, company and and the computer servicis firm that that designthe software we won't mention the name, but sometimes their name is ynonymous withmaking a capy has that they decided that the main frame thatwe had sold this on, that that particular version of the software hada whole in a technology hole in it. This was a new CTO that came on boardand he said I couldn't be fixed. I'd never experienced anything like this,and this this deal was worth. You know six figures to me personally and...

...and they were going to pay me to stay,but they were going to pay me over a two year period. Lock me pancups,exactly exactly and and I left to join Bon, and that was the the best decisionI ever made in my life. I walked away from a lot of money but walked into an opportunity that shapedme and taught me so much and you know so is so the lesson was you know whenyou feel theiridg to jump jump. Don't has ta just do it. Yes, excellent allright. So let's do the the typical intero stuff now so give us for peopleout there that have heard of the bookselling dozebras there's. Also acompany called selling Dezeres help our audience understand kind of the focusand mission of the company, so so, as Zebri first of all is Zabrais, is your perfect prospect? It's and it'sbased on your perfect customer, so y you work through the process which wedefine in the book. You come up with the seven attributes that makeup azebra and and you you define who your best customer is, and then you, youmeasure all of your future prospects against that best customer and youmeasure it and you score it and we have a red, yellow, green system. It'ssimple! It's fast, it's easy and has to be Yoursales, guys, wouldn't doit right and and and the reason we call it azebra is because when you, you know, Zebra s distinctive, you know it's nota horse, it doesn't look like any other animal. Nothing has stripes like that.You know it's just so obvious when you look at a zebray that you can't confuseit for any other animal. An in the analogy is that when you look at youryour best prospects and your best customers, they should be just asdistinctive to you, excellent and so the company, when you, when you'rebuilding that company. What are you guys focused on so today we're a little bit different today. Sowe what we've done over the years it used to be really expensive to toengage with a client and and to teach them how to sell the way we do it tobuill a value model, the way that we used to do it and we used to do it in excel in theearly days yea and it didn't look like excel, because it was really cool butit, but it was still excel lot of visual basic and and but but that w. You know, we literallybuilt a new model, a for each client each time, and that was very expensive,took a long time and what we've done over the years as we've actually putthat into software now so literally an individual celler could could could useit and do it. So that's where we're going excellent, excellent. So, let's,let's back up and start with kind of the Genesis of the concept Fr m fromwhat I've read. It appears this. This came to you when you were working atbond. You mentioned them earlier.

You go to bond, you are excited to makethe jump, encourage people to make to jump. But what was it? What happened ifbon that gave birth to this idea, so there were. There were a couplethings that happened so the first one you know when I left that other companyenjoined Bon. I joined the Bond USA organization, which wasbrand new the they had. They had two customers. They were bothsold through independent resellers in the US from the Nethrlands. They were,you know, that's where the headquarters it for Bon was and they were soldpoorly a and they were both unhappy and and both were both were actually suing Behu. So sometimes, when I present, I say wehad minus two customers, so we you know the first Zeber weproduced we brainstormed with some of the best in the company, some of thefolks from Urnd that knew it deep, deep secrets about what we did. Thatwas unique. We mapped it out who would care for if we ould care about thatwhose problem did we solve? Where did they live in the organization in a verybright guy? Kevin Calderwood actually took all these notes from the WhiteBoard and that night created the first Bonzebra ou no yeah, and he says I didit Jad. I didn't he he's that kind of leader. You know he gave the creditsomebody else. I led the whiteboard discussion, but he distiled it intowhat became known as the Bonibra, but but we did that just to survive,because you know sap was already in the US. They were already a fifty milliondollar business in the US. Aracle was here they were already. You know, youknow very big in database, but they were also in erpalready and in quitelarge and those were our competitors on every dal. And so you know why wouldsomebody buy from a company? That's headquartered in the Netherlands thatdoesn't have any customers, and this is critical software that runs every facetof your business, an who? Who would do that right, trusconly go so far when you're talkingabout that type of investment exactly and then the second part of this cameinto being lan. I've been it with with Bon for about three years and can wewere EA lot of success? We had sold some big name companies, you knowbowling had bought snap on tools was first and bowling ad Blad and manyothers, and then we bought a supply chain. Company called Berklan out ofCanada and and in they hadn't grown. We had ownedthem for about a year and supply chain was hot. Remember I too, Oh yeah, yeahyeah, so I do remember that yeah. So, but so back back when I top sprang up,you know nobody knew what supply chain was right. I mean it wasn't a commonword. It wasn't a common phrase in our venacular and I to made it common andreally lik old rat who rode the book...

...wrote the book the goal made. It madeit a common language for all of us, but Bon bought this this little company.That was only one point: four million in annual revenues at the time and theyhadn't done anything with it for a year, but the industry was on fire and theyasked me to move over and run that and- and we then created the Zebra forsupply chain and then what we did was we created a a model around thebusiness issues we solved and the value that we created by solving them, andthat was the first time we ever created a business case around this that wasactually produced by the software we did in an excel even back then, and- and we took that that little supplychain business and when I left a couple years later, it was- was almost eightymillion in annual resenuce Yeah Yeah Tha Soit Wi its fun. So you start withso you your a bond. You Di, find the first Zebra rusing a excel. I'm sorryI'll apologize for the rest of US Thi yhaow! Do you xtell to do that? Iremember having a put visual basic over yea, but then now you're transitioinginto this into a software company. What what was the genesis that and what hasthat been like? Well, some some success and some failure so the first, the first attempt youknow we all joke about excel, but it's probably the best application Licrosoftever produced right for true true. You know it's amazing right what you can dowith it and it's hard to replace in the first version that we first softwarethat we had produced. We actually did it in Poland and we gave away part ofthe company to do it. You know we kind of bardered it for pieace of thecompany and and I failed and and it and the reason it failed isbecause it did exactly what we asked them to program and- and you know we can laugh now- Ipay a lot for that. Education T at was an expensive one. It was it was, butthe so the third version of our software we brought a guy in who is he's our CTOTom and he had worked with seaball back. You know for the listeners that don'tknow seebull and some others kind of created, th the CRM, the customerrelationship management space right so before sales force there was seabolkand he was there in the early days and in what he forced us to do as sit downand design. We literally designed for a year ind wire, framed things and anddecided as much. What we weren't going to do is what we were going to do and he was really good atsimplification and...

...before we ever coded anything you know he had it Hehad it mapped out.It was all with intelligent design so that it would shrink down to an iphone.So you could score on an iphone. It would work on an IPAD. You know I sAmazon Aws, you know, which is nothing new around that today, but three fouryears ago, that was still pretty ve novel right they're, not a lot of little companieswere doing that and a lot of not a lot of people knew about that and we didthat and that was under his direction and and when we came out to with thisversion. So so all the coding by the way was was done in Srilanka. You knowoffsure Ey, it was so so we went from Pol Andustry, Lonkso you'd, think we'd be smarter Righ, but but that turned out to be beautifulbecause he had a relationship with this offshore firm and already knew themalready trusted them and and the guys we have there working on our on ourcoding in ourdesign guys here are you know those those guys are our guys. Wepay for them as an offshore, but but there are guystha, it's been the same team from the beginning and they're still with us andand and our guys have grown to be great designers and we give them really gooddirection. And- and you know we do a scrum every night at ten o'clock and and that's that's the key it works. Butit's because of the the constant diligence together it does. I mean tobe that Agilante to incorporate offshore resources. I've had my FarhShar headaches with that I'. I'm glad to hear that the lessons learned turnedpositive for you yeah, and it was really Tom'sleadership and brand to who now designs nd in others who design the software.Now that at that's really made that work, even if you've been in sales fordecades, new technology, new buyers and new dynamics create challenges. Yourteam may not be ready for value. Prime solutions enables you to focus on saleson the prospects and customers, not the noise and the sales framework youimplement with them is simple, scalable and proven check out value PrimeSolutionscom, and ask how they can help. You be your target. Let's talk aboutyour first book for a minute selling to zebras. It's widely recognizes greatsales book. It's pointed to by other, respected sales leaders. Put you in thecompany an some of the top Eshelon sales authors in the world, but a lot of authors. You know a lot ofpeople have awesome ideas and never write a book. I'm curious. What was itgenesis? How did you get to the point where you felt like the book wasnecessary and then you know made it through the painful process of actuallycreating it so necessary. I don't know if I ever thought it wasnecessary. I liked it. You know, you know thecompanies that I was working with at the time. Hey had the same problemright, but they all thought that you...

...were unique and I just wrote a story, and I did itin a way so so I mentioned Eli Goldrats book before the goal. Have you everread that one? Yes, I have yeah yeah, so it's a novel right, it's Paren,that's a parable and and and there you know it- you know. I didn't know that Iwas doing this because I just copied that theme, but I was using the heromethod theme when I copied that approach. I you know there's thisthere's a sales guy sales leader who whos in trouble- and you know h, he'snot going to meet his numbers again and, and he needs a solution and in thebusiness needs him to find a solution. So there's you know there's thisthere's this problem, there's a clast for the solution. You know, there's atreasure because ideas out there, you know there's aguru that helps them. You know call them Kent Clark Right, that's you know not to be confused with Clark.Can you know done on purpose right, be a littleplayful and and then he figures it out and hisworld is a better place and the rest of the world is a better place and hesucceeds so there's you know the whole heeled land thing from and there's areally good book on that on this topic by the way how to do this in businessthat that just came out. In fact, you should talk to her Catherine Jollettcalled the hero method. Have you ever heard of that? I haven't. I'm writingit down the yeah I'll connect you with her of a hero method by CatherineJillett. So you know unbeknounced to me that that this is you know she saysthat all good movies follow this theme. You know all good novels. So that's theway the book was written and the only reason I did it was because I wanted itto be fun. I wanted to be fun to read and and and and it didn't actually getpublished till it was the third version by the way. So there were you: Had Your Own HeroesJourney on it, yeayeah exactly excellent! Well and now, there's a newyou're working on a new win have a newhen. They just came out calledvoiceos the customer. What's the genesis behind this one? So that's an ebook and that one is actually free on our website and and the reason we did.That was because the whole core of what we teach comesfrom messaging from the customer and in the Voice of the customer is somethingthat is. Is it's not easy to do and there are somesecrets to how to do it, and so we kind of wanted o just put them out there indetail and- and you know, as we talked with potentialinvestors and selling to zebras, they all said Hey, you know the thing we'reworried about that. Isn't scalable! We don't know if this voice of thecustomer thing is calable, you know, and even even executives where we haddone where they had become, customers wondered if it was so. We wanted tofigure out. How do you teach that? So...

...that's what we did so we've trainedpartners on that now and we know, have partners that do that work and sell andimplement our software and in that's made us scalable, and so we put thesecret sauce in a book and and even though it's out there, itdoesn't mean it's easy, but it's out there that way right! Well, I mean it'sso many people. I forget what the stat was something like all thes sales books out there and onlylike eleven percent of sales. People actually read them. So it's like youcan give all the stuff away for free, be bcause they're not going to do itthey're going to need the'r Goin to need help, but Mayo noeven if they readit, they're still going to need out right and one of the things that bookfocuses on is getting access to power and understanding the business powerproblem that they actually solve, which near due to my heart, something I talkabout all the time. I'm curious from your perspective and your experience.Why do most companies in sales rep struggle with this? To me it seems likea common sense thing almost, but it t takes up. The vast majority of ourbillable hours is working with customers. On that some curious, yourperspective on that. Isn't that the truth? What you just said is exactlythe truth in you know, common sense, isn't very common. Yeahyou know. If youask I do presentations it like you guys do and, and one of the first questionsI'll ask a room, fullof CEOS. First I get, I bring my little zebra pad, soit's a three by three unch. You know little sheet of paper stack of them.ANDIT's got zebre print and I give every one of them a little three bythree inch piece of paper, obviously very small, and I asked them to writedown the business problem they solve and that little sheat. So it's you knowit's a very short tour. It's a short building, elevator pitch right and and what they invariably do. IsThey tell me what their company does or they tell me what their product does,but they don't talk about the problem they solve for power nd. So the youknow the person that would approve e r the purchase for their solution. Theydon't frame it in their eyes and, like you said, it's it's a naturalthing, but it's not a common thing and it's not always realy easy to figureout. It's kind of like your m kind of likeyour mission right. You know, missions always look easy when your rethem offsomebody's wall, you want me to pay how much money tohave somebody develop that for me, yeah well sit down and try and do it. It'snot easy het. Doesn't it's not easy at all? So if ther were, if the listenerswanted to know like the most important thing that they would learn fromreading the ebook Voice of the customer, what would it be so so that it that getting to power iswhat's key and you have to earn the right to get toe power? And- and I knowyou know what I mean by when I say power, so power powers, the person thatcan by even without a budget and is probably the person that okay dorpurchase, even if they've been a customer for years, there was there'ssomebody in that chain of command.

That's signed off on it so many times. What we've learned is thatwhen we dovoice the customer work- and we ask our customers who is powerwithin their customer- they don't even know who it is right, ssometimes, they never met hemor they met them when they first got business and they've not had arelationship since and the only way you can get back to that person is to earnthe right and- and we talk about how you do that you know you have to studytheir website. You have to study their industry, you have to study a littlebit about their competitors and then you have to frame what business problemyou think yourself for them, so that you can go verify it or get clarity.You know they'll straighten you out, but you, but you have to you, have todo your homework and come prepared with a pretty solid business message to earnthe right to talk with him for thirty to forty five minutes yeah and it's ait's a respect thing to especially text right. I mean you see all of these BDCexperiences or hear capple, and all these guys talk about design and theexperience that elivers well now, that's translating especially into beto B and those expectations for how people want to be engaged with. Itstarts with respect and understanding them. Having empathy for where they'reat and understanding what they're dealing with it's, not about you likeevery time I ask a customer or hell, even when I started a new job, a what'sthe value. What's the value that we provide. Oh our, our software does thisor our people are the smartest O and I'm like, okay? Well, that's not whatI'm asking that's great, that we've got that, but that's not what I'm asking.What is the business problem we're solving for our customer was the valueto them and people struggle with that. I don't know if it's just hard for Hemto get out of their heads or what yeah you know. It's. They just neverasked you know they. They were successful without knowing and andthat's perpetuated that cycle with okay, I coal see that with yeah withaut Imean you just get so comfortable too right. It's like yeah. I need to learnsecially. I feel bad, sometimes for RAFTS TAT get on boarded in newcompanies. Right, like you've, got all this product stuff that you're gettingtaught. So then, why would your sales management be surprised that you comeout and all you want to talk about? Is You and your product? You just spentthree six, eight weeks getting onboarded through you kno all thisproduct training, but nobody was showing you how to temperite toapproach the company or to talk to people that can actually sign thechacks and you fall in love with your own product, and you know that happenedto us too thot. You know going back to that. First version of software that weproduced that wasn't excel. We found ourselves talking about that damnproduct, you know, because we were really proud of it. You know, butthat's not why anybody ever bought from US right, isn't that funny I mean you know we set back one day and wesaid we're doing what we teach not to do. You know right yeah, it's it's hard.Sometimes you get into the you drink the coulit on the product to get intothe pace of the sales profession and being able to be selfaware enough tothrottle yourself and really look at...

...things objectively. It gets tough right.You get it's easy to get caught up in, especially governbit somebody's chasinga commission check right. You see those big deals and it's like Allsuden, thebasters come on. Yes, they do they did, and so, when you work with clients todo the voice of the customer work, how do you then help them ocause, you'vkind of shaken them? A little bit you've got hem focused o on thecustomer, not necessarily themselves what kind of challenges and how do youapproach actually getting them to the leverage? Those findings internally? So what we do then Ou, so that the theVFC work, its still distilled down into the critical business issues that theysay or the reasons they bought and then what value was created by addressing e those business issuesin in its economic value, it's quantified and then what we do is wehelp them develop a range. So here's the business issue o solves for thisindustry, sed for this type of economic buyer and here's the range of value youcan create and then Wewe create a predictive model around that in thesoftware. Does that now really easily for us and you can then approach them. Youknow you can then approach the additional prospects with that aresimilar to the where you've had success, and you can have a dialogue that says:Look I'm trying to humbly or on the right. I did my homework. You know, Ithink you really similar to other Zeboras of mine. Let me tell you whatthat is: here's what I found you know. I think you've got the problem myselfand here's the value I would create. This is a hypothesis in the next stepif this is intriguing and if I've done the right homework and you'r the rightperson that cares about this I'd like to move into verification step with youwith the people. You Trust, because when you're with power, that could bejust a fifteen minute conversation literally right and then they directyou to their subject matter experts, and then you do what you normally d didbefore. You know you prove it, but now you're you're proving something that'sa little different and you do your selling Yiu between the cracks rightright, Accelen, excellent, all right! So, let's, let's Piv it here a littlebit and talk about selling dezepers the company. So whatis what is your guy's top business goal right now, so our goal is to help other companiesbuild, build a business around us. So we we're teaching others how to do thevoice of the customer work literally. How to do thes create the materialsthat we create for the clients and and turn them loose and because our realgoal, you know it's lofty and you'll, probably laugh, and we won't achieve it till I'm gone,but but we want to change the way the world sells. We literally think theworld would be a better place if everybody sold this way so that that'sour goal, Ey there's nothing wrong with loftty girls and there I applaued that.Actually I come from A. I come from a...

...background where to often people don'tset goals like that, and they are much like they want to talk about themselves.It's notl focused on them so to hear that's actually inspiring, so you don'tget a laugh for that. One! Sorry, okay! Welcome e!! well, thank you! SO LAUGHAFTER YEAH! Well, we'll have after so what problems are you guys currentlyencountering that are you know problematic in order to achieve thatgoal? Well, teaching others how to do the VOCwork does take time and- and we had- we had you- and I weretalking before before when Wewere just getting to know each other. Alittle bit and in you know, some of the certification that we put in place wastedious and and wasn't the best way to teach it so now we're sort of on ournext version of that a D, and I think that's getting better so, but that's achallenge is how do you? How do you speed that up and and make other successful doing thatwork and then, after that, the rest of it is fairly easy in comparison? No,okay and now I have to ask not to be not too smart out, but I do have to ask,since we talked about what business problem to selling Dezibrusoff O goodquestion. So we've been talking about the Zebrosright and- and you know when you, when you look at your customer base and youanalyze it. We know statistically that eighty nine percent of your revenuecomes from Zebrus, literally eighty nine percent, that's the number! It'sPreto, it's a preto principal thing in in a hundred and fifty percent of yourprofits come from those eighty nine percent of those customers. So what wedo, what the problem we salve is we help you find clothes, implement,retain and expand more zebrus Nice. So there's a lot of companies out therethat you know and I work for smaller companies. Ind larger companies you'dalways end up in that situation, where it's like hey. Eighty percent of myUrevenue is coming from one customer yeah, that's not a good situation to be,and how do we, you know now go find another one, replicate it right andthen, of course you know the sales been the consultants they scamper out goingo crap whet. How am I supposed to do this? So it's a great problem to solveit's a great problem to go after Yep, and we we put a lot of time intothat simple answer. Excellent all right. So, let's change the direction. On moretime ARD, we ask all of our guess kind of two standard questions towards theendofch entervew. The first is simply: You are a revenue executive. Yourunning a software company that makes you a I call them targets, but thatsome people don't like that, whats a prospect that some people want to sellto. I in my head, it didn't seem thatUNFORTUAE, but I got called on it by a previous Guet. So we'll say you weare aprospect that some people are going to go after I'm curious. How does somebodywho you don't know don't have a relationship with how do they get infront of you and build credibility? Captyour attention to talk to you aboutproblems you may have that they could...

...solve. So you know you have to you have tolearn how to create a buying experience for your prospect, because you know when somebody says the wordsales person, the you know, the the image. That's always conjured up, isn'tpositive, even for us right in this in this profession. So because nobodywants to be sold and- and it feels really good to gothrough a buying experience. So you and that's not easy, and you have to pivottill you get it right, and the second thing is is to come witha knowledge of my business. So if you're going to call on me, make sureyou understand what it is, we do and can communicate the problem that youthink you solve for me and tell me why you think you found that I had it soprove to me that you've done your homework, that I have it. Even if Idon't know I have it and then, if you helped me tell me what value would becreated because I may know intuitively, but I don't want to have to do yourwork for you right right. So I it's back to that. Earn the right Ernthe right to it is earn the right to engage and then capture some of my time. That's exactly right and when sellersdo that with me I'll talk with them, because I'm impressed you know- and Iyou know other sellers. You know sellers like totalk to people that get it right. Yeah. It's always a great strategy. Ifyou can't get into an account call one of their accountexacts because they'lltell you everything you want to know, I mean sounes people, Wolt we'd love totalk. Yes, excellent, all right! So last question: We call it ouracceleration insight. There was one thing you could tell sales, marketingor consultants that you think would help them be more effective. beat theirtargets, make more money, be more successful. What would it be? And why so it's it's practicing that buyingexperience it's. It really does still go back tothat again, because you know the statistics. I think it's IDC says thatfifty seven percent of this sale is done today before they ever call you. I don't know if I agree with that, somepeople say even more that more of it's done because they look you up on theweb. They have a realization of their problem. But what I would say is youstill have to take over the buying experience an and turn it intosomething that that you guide them through that that allows them to optout. So it's not like you're, manipulating or spinning them, oranything like that. It's it's where you! You demonstrate why theyr your Zebraand we actually our software, actually allows you to show them right in yoursoftware. Why you're good fit and let them decide that they're a good fit. Let them come to the realization andthen agree on the next step and the next logical step Hich, which you'reguiding and there's in there's...

...flexibility there, but but you'recreating a journey that they're directing, but because you're in theright place, because you did it I'll steal your words did it with respect,it feels good to them and if you can't build a business case around thesolution, you'll accent and that's part of your message and and that feels goodto them too, because you're not just trying to sell them something you'reworking to create a buying experience to make sure that you, as well as them,are in the right place. Excellent Excellent Jemi can't think you enoughfor the time today. If a listener is interested in talking more about thetopics we touched on or wants to engage with you what's the best way to get incontact with you selling Gozuberscom, okay, we're easy to find axe got a can't. Thank you enough ofthe Times in great having you on the show think it Jhad has been a veryjoyable experience for me, too excellent, all right, everyone thatdoes it for this episode, please check us out at BTB. REVIZECCOM show theepisode with friends, Familyes Coworkers, and if you like what you' ehere, please leave us soreview on itunes. We do use those reviews todetermine what gast and what content to produce for you guys, but until nexttime we avalue prime solutions, wish you all nothing, but the greatestsuccess you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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