The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

James Carbary on the Fastest Way to Establishing B2B Relationships using Content Based Networking

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone agrees that relationships are incredibly important in business. But nobody is talking about how to consistently create those relationships, strategically… Well, all except for one:

James Carbary, the Founder and CEO of Sweet Fish Media, explained if ‘Content is King, then Content Based Networking is the Kingdom’. Content Based Networking is the term that he and his team created in order to describe the unique vertical they’re in. James defines it like this: “Using content collaboration as a way to build new business relationships.”

Create some sort of Content Hub (James chose Podcasting). Then invite people that you’d like to build relationships with, to create that content with you. “It’s not what you know; it’s who you know;” and Content Based Networking is the ‘how-to’ that you need in order to do it.

I just don't see a lot of people telling folks how to actually create relationships with people. All they say is the importance of relationships and you got to have a relationships. It's like, why do you do that? Oh well, this is actually a really simple way to do it. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome every one of the be tob revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about content based networking, and to help us do it we have the man, the myth, the legend, Mr James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media. James, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having me, man, I'm really excited to chat with you today. Yeah, it's full circle for all the people out there who aren't aware of it, but James was the one that got me into podcasting and helped us set up the show. Originally and sweet fish. If here's a shameless plug, sweet fish is amazing. So highly recommend you guys reach out and then work with them. But let's talk content based networking. How about the start with the definition? Yeah, man, so, so the way we define content based networking is using content collaboration as a way to build new business relationships. I mean, you've been in the game long enough to know that. I don't think anybody would argue. was saying that relationships are incredibly important in business and it's not what you know to you know, we've all heard that saying a million times, but I don't see a lot of people telling people how to actually create those relationships. It's based on a lot of hope and serendipity, like I hope this person's at an event that I'm going to or at this local chamber of Commerce meet up that I'm about to attend, or I just hope that I meet the right people. And we feel like we've really figured out a way to reverse engineer the right kind of relationships and we do it on the back of podcasts and other types of media that you can create with your ideal customers. So yeah, that's the long and short of it. So when you look at that stuff and you get strategic about it. So when you want to network, I say you want to target somebody that's going to be that chamber of Commerce of that or you know at that next meet up. What kinds of things are you seeing or advising clients to do to leverage the content they've created? If you know someone in your community, you want to connect with them. They're not responding to your emails, you're they're not at the Chamber of Commerce Meeting for you to meet Sarendipitously or whatever. Having some sort of a media outlet that you own that you can partner with him to create content on a podcast is a great one. You know, this show, our shit's what we use our show be to be growth. For we go out and we know that VP's of marketing at be tob tech companies are ideal buyers. And so what do you know, like all of our guests on BB growth, our VP's of marketing and EB tech companies with fifty blosom boys like and so it's a gateway drug to a relationship with the exact right type of person. It works locally. It...

...works if you're selling globally. But podcasts aren't the only way to do it. I mean you can have, you know, a video series and you invite someone to be a part of the video series. I've seen a couple big brands do like these long documentary style pieces of content. So they're like our long documentaries. I saw an agency in San Diego do one about Seo, saw cyber security firm do one on the four biggest cybersecurity hacks in recent history, and so you're developing this in phenomenal content. But in the midst of developing that content, you're also collaborating with people that you can ultimately do business with to create that content with them. So it creates this bond, in this unity between you and your potential buyer because you're creating content with them, be it a documentary or a podcast episode or a blog, or you partner with them on a Webinar. There are all sorts of different types of media that you can collaborate with people on and when you're strategic about who you collaborate with, you end up building a business relationship that I can actually to have enormous Roi well, and it also, if you think about the the logistics of making it happen for larger companies. Right, it actually helps bridge the divide between sales and marketing. Sales can come in and say, Hey, I want to get into these three especially in an account based actually, I want to get out of these ten accounts. What can we do to generate content, whether it be podcast interview or some paper or long format video or things like that? It drives that collaboration and actually I think it provides marketing a hell of a lot better understanding of what it is they should be putting out to that creates a value to be familier right, and you're totally right, and and it's this beautiful like we're huge advocates for podcasts, obviously, and and the way we see it bridging that kind of sales and marketing divide is, you know, sales says, Hey, these are the ten accounts I want to get into, and then marketing owns the podcast itself. So they say, okay, we're going to reach out to decision makers at those ten accounts and we're going to ask them to be a guest on the show and maybe the person on the sales team is actually does that interview, maybe get somebody else doing the interview. But regardless, that person, who's a decisionmaker at a target account that sales wants to get into, now has a direct relationship with the brand because there were guests on the show and so maybe their episode goes live in that sales person then reaches out to them a couple weeks later like hey, just listen to your episode on our podcast. You did phenomenal. I love the part that you set about, Duddah, would love to chat with you more about it. And that's penetration into the account like and it does it. It's not rocket science, it's but it's adding value up front independent of the product or service that you sell. And you see this a whole lot more than I do, being in the space that you're in, Chad, but I just see so many people going straight to the throat and going to someone that they have, is your relationship with whatsoever, and trying to sell them their thing, product, service, whatever...

...it is, independent of a relationship, and because of that you just get ignored more often than not. But when you can go to someone and say hey, I have a show, I'd love to feature you as an expert on this show, that's value to them because even if the show doesn't have very many listeners, it's still great pr for them. They're going to be able to post on linkedin that they were featured on Xyz podcast as an expert and it makes them look really good externally and internally if they're in a big company. And so there's benefit in it for them. And you're leading with something that isn't hey buy my thing and and and it's just really powerful. Well, and it's so you know, we talked about it being almost common sense. You know I've had these conversations before. What I find interesting is that I think it gets the point where it's such common sense for us. My career started in marketing. I spent the first thirteen years of my career in marketing and then switch to sales, and a big chunk of my effectiveness in sales was due to the fact that I understood how to leverage the marketing content. So now we got sales people out there and they're told go hit these numbers, go hit these numbers, go hit these numbers, but they're not educated, number one, on a methodology to really uncover their prospects of view of value, but to provide them with some type of value in advance. It's not enough just to reach out and quote some fancy stat or Hey, we help this company do for Xts, improvement on whatever whatever. Nobody buildings that stuff anymore. You really have to work on forming at relationship. Yep, and I think the idea of collaborating with someone to create content with them actually putting them in that driver's seat, because essentially you're putting your prospects, your future customers, you're putting them in the driver's seat of your content strategy, which is just a different way of thinking about it. But if, for our show, just keep using the BEDB growth example, we have a show that's all about BEDB marketing, and so when I go to a CMO or a VP of marketing at a target account for us and I said, Hey, two shows about BEDB marketing. Is there anything under that umbrella that you'd be interested in talking about? And because they're in that role, they're going to have something to say. And so it's not like the content is scattered and all over the place because you're letting your guests control the content. It's more targeted because you're actually talking to practitioners and those practitioners who are in the weeds, like executing on these different strategies and tactics and different things are doing in their own business. So you're creating phenomenal content. But at the end of it, I mean after you've kind of prepped the interview with them, you've done the interview, you send them the link after the episode went live, you now have a real relationship with that person. So when you go to email them to say, you know, hey, I really think we could help you guys with this thing that you mentioned on the interview, you're not doing it blindly and you're not doing it independent of relationship. Because of whatever it was that that piece of content was that you created with him, you now have a tangible relationship. It goes beyond just having a piece of marketing collateral to send them. That's relatively personalize, like, no, like they actually created it with you. And so so you you have...

...such a meaningful relationship with them. Now and and we've done almost eight hundred interviews on bedb growth now and now are we just hired our first salesperson on the team and he's now a cohost of be tob growth and he's taking over the bulk of the interviews for that show because I want him to have those relationships now, and it's just phenomenal to see it like go from my business partner and I cohosting the show and now it's scales out to, you know, somebody that we hired to be in sales in our company doing that and it's working just as well for him as it did for us because, again, it's it all matched back to the relationship and I just don't see a lot of people telling folks how to actually create relationships with people. All they say is the importance of relationships and you got to have a relationships with it's like, why do you do that? Oh well, this is actually a really simple way to do it, like create some sort of content hub. We've chosen to use podcast, and then invite people that you want to have relationships with to take part in creating that content with you. I mean, I could talk about it to them blue in the face, but I just think it's something that particularly in the B tob space, man, because the lifetime value of a customer in the BB space is high. So so to make whatever investment it is in producing whatever type of content that you're going to use for this type of collaborative content creation. You close one deal and it pays for a year's worth of content in a lot of cases. And so you know, as you and I were talking offline, you said that you know the content that you've created from this show. The relationships have been fruitful for you with your guests, but also the content alone is probably been even more valuable to you. So I do a lot of harping on the importance of the relationships with your guests, but the content itself is extremely valuable as well. And so it's just this it's this double edged sword. I think there's not nearly enough people doing it. It's so it's still wide open territory. I think there's a lot of opportunity for growth in it, but I'm really excited about the concept and the idea of it. Well, and I see, you know, it's funny. I see a lot of people attempt to do it right. And so you know, I think when you and I first start talking, I was like not many podcast make it past episode seven, seventh like that, and it's like okay, so we you know you were right up from when we start talking. Don't expect you know millions of people overnight. Yeah, but you see people that I'll start and it'll catch, something will catch my interest right and I'll listen and then all of a sudden it disappears. Then I get one quick question in my head that goes well, I wonder what happened and then I completely forget about that show. And it is a it's much like in sales. It's a discipline. Right, you have to be disciplined about it and you have to just continue to go through it. Might as well have fun doing it. It's more fun to collaborate with somebody than it is just sit here and write a white paper or something that, no, Dad, I'm going to read. Yeah, I'm curious. I noticed and we had you and I had emailed back forth about this. The you guys a jumped into some video production. Yeah, and there was a video and I got to give you a huge Kudos because my one of my business partners, probably opens Linkedin two three times a...

...week and so very rarely, Yeesh, she ever comment on any piece of content that she sees out there. But she saw your video that you guys did and came down into the studio was like, have you seen this, check this out. So how did that evolution happen? Yeah, so, so we started looking at kind of what how do we repurpose podcast content? What are the best ways to do that? So we started figuring out how to do it on Linkedin, and it wasn't the traditional things that a lot of people were doing, like teasing the content and saying, Hey, you're going to learn three secrets on this episode. You know, click the link here and listen to it. We noticed that when you actually took tangible value from the interview itself and put that into your linkedin status update, that those types of post did much better because you were actually giving meat in the post for people to engage with, as opposed to saying hey, I want you to stop scrolling Linkedin go listen to this thirty minute episode or twenty minute episode or whatever. It's just disruptive. It's not the regular flow of how people are going to consume. So instead we started saying, okay, what were the three biggest takeaways from this episode and we're actually going to share those three takeaways inside the linkedin set. US updated self, and so we learned a bunch of nuances about how to win on Linkedin and since we were getting so much time there, we saw a lot of people developing video and a lot of the videos were really just kind of Selfie, like somebody throws up an iphone in front of their face and they start rambling about something that they think is important. There's no captions on it. It's very low production and I saw I saw similar opportunity. I said, man, we can, if we can crush it with linkedin status updates that are text only, I think if we, you know, because we're putting more effort into our linkedin text only status updates. That's why we're getting results there. So if we put in more effort on video, we could probably get more results there as well. And I did an interview with Gary Banner Chuck About a year and a half ago and he said that the biggest opportunity for bdb brands is to make their buyers laugh, and I really took that to heart and we started a video series called Gary V, want to be and it took off right. Yeah, it was. It was me, you know, pretending to be Gary V and or trying to be Gary V and failing desperately, and and it got, you know, the series got over eightyzero views on Linkedin. We only did two videos and it was phenomenal in terms of engagement and so we thought, man, what if we started doing this for clients podcasts, where we would do a funny kind of one minute video explaining what the podcast was about, but we made a humorous and so I think that's the video that your colleague actually saw. Is for a podcast called the payments innovation shows. Yeah, and so we did a bit on, you know, bitcoin and how everything's changing so fast and you know, one second you have to accepting Bitcoin, the next second you have to accept the theory M and then I'll now bitcoins out. You got you. So this is this is this funny take on how quickly the payment space is changing and it got incredible results...

...for them. The client ended up loving it and they they're now working with us on a long term basis on producing their show. So all that to say, I just think that the amount of effort you put into it, whether it's a podcast repurposing, whether it's, you know, video production, the amount of effort you put into something as directly correlated to the results that you're going to see from it. And so if you're just not willing to put in that effort, you just have to be okay with limited results. And we just said, we just made the determination that we were going to put a lot of effort into the content that we put out because we don't want to just kind of set it and forget it. I was using buffer and which is a social media tool, before and I was just loading in links to different articles and loading them up on linked in and I was getting, you know, a hundred to two hundred views per post. But as soon as I started writing like thoughtful, like long form status updates that I wasn't, you know, blasting everywhere, it was just specifically for Linkedin, my post started getting like five to ten thousand views, and then Twentyzero views, and then I had posts get over a hundred thousand views and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so much more. You know, it's more time. You know, it takes me thirty to forty five minutes to write one of those posts, but it gets such better results than the five minute effort I was putting into loading in links into buffer and so so we just applied that same principle the video and ended up working out really, really well for us. Well, I think it's important for everybody remember, whether you're marketing or sales or whatever, it is the quality of time. Not. Yes, stillly just the quantity. Right. Yeah, but people are getting more discerning in the content that they will or will not be in time with. have. There's so much of it out there. A lot of it's okay, some of the crap and then there's great stuff that's out Yep, and so you know, you really it's interesting to see this evolution, the way the technology has changed, because marketers have always had to stay on the front of you know, that type of technology, but not even sales people. You have to be a polished professional, be able to communicate with the written word, in video and all of that, as well as EXEC to sales methodology in a sales process. So the job in order to continually get to the core element of connecting with other people. And there's so much of it out there today that it doesn't take much to turn people off. Your spot on Ma and I I saw some maybe interesting get your take on this chat. I saw something yesterday, I think it was on Facebook, where guy was asking what do they do to set their sales reps up for success and Scott Chin and Dan and he said, if you can, every rep on your team should have a va to handle all of like the administrative, like crm stuff that sales people hate doing. Just like take that off their plate, give it to a va that can handle all that stuff for them. But then he said something else, and more interesting thing to me was every one of your reps should also have a ghostwriter. And I thought, oh my gosh, because he said, you know, you know, looking back on all the day to he's seen the reps that create content...

...get ten x results from reps that don't. And I thought, oh my gosh, like, but the thing that keeps reps from creating content is they just don't have the time to do it. They're, you know, they're working, you know, a large pipeline. They're they're getting deals across the finish line. But by having a ghost rider, if they can just talk through the concepts, either questions that prospects are having that they're finding themselves answering a lot, or you know, whatever it is, they talk through those things. A ghost writer creates the content and the company, you know, invests in that, you're just going to get that much more mileage out of your reps, because essentially you're paying for them to develop their own personal brand, which I think is brilliant. I sent it to our sales guy as soon as I saw it and I was like a man like pick a writer from our team and that person is now going to be your ghostwriter, because I need you writing more content. But I'd be curious to see if you have a similar thought or if you think that that should be separate, or should sales people be creating their own content? Ideal look, ideally you want sales people sell them. I think it's great. The reality is, most sales people aren't English majors like I was. Yeah, most of them don't have the eye for and the time to think about what is somebody going to find, you know, interesting, interesting in a different medium. So to have a team or people, anything that you can all float off of the sales rep so their focussed on having the conversations and moving them through the sales process, the better off you're going to be. One of the guys from outreach that I talked to, interviewed last year, said that he does with his prospecting teams. He does not allow them to go find their own lists of prospects. He actually has someone who is one hundred percent dedicated to vetting lists, completing them and providing them. So those people are completely focused on setting the first meeting and qualifying them for Demo, and their results have been amazing because you have them focused on exactly what they need to be focused on and they're given the right type of data. Same thing sales up. I think it's brilliant. I wish I had a ghostwriter. Yeah, may have the guy one. Now. You know, the Internet has changed changed how we how we do things so much and like and to your point of like, it's the quality that matters, and so the sales reps that were hiring, they're extremely smart. I mean they're navigating really complex processes, but sales processes and selling complex technology. They're intelligent people that have a lot to say about the industry that they're selling in, and so by equipping them to actually share that expertise and share what they know about the space, but giving them a ghostwriter, copywriter and assigning that person to them, I would argue that one ghostwriter could probably handle a few different reps if that was their job was to you know, just do content, interviews and craft content for these people and I just think it would be something that would pay off in big, big ways the longer you kept doing it. But well, I thought test for companies brand. Right. So if you have that's the challenge. When you have larger sales force, you want to all created content, but some people write in different voices, different tones, they have different and so you have to really as a marketing professional, you have to be really aware of how that impacts the brand. Ghostwriter helps you get the expertise out of your...

...sales force and also, with the same time, protect and project the brand. Yeah, which I think is kept on all right. Man. So I know we're short on time and I got I got to ask you the one question we ask everybody. We call it the acceleration inside. So there's one thing you could tell sales marketing people, one piece of advice that if they listened, being the commune, if they listen, that you believe would help them hit their targets or bust out quotas? What would it be and why? It feels like beating a dead horse, but I'm just so bullish on creating content with your prospects and I guess, to go one step higher, like figure out a way to add value to your prospects independent of what you're selling them. And and in my opinion, if you can figure out a way to do that, whether it's, you know, creating content with them or you know, I've got another business where we sell to high school athletic directors and to add value to them we started to scholarship and so we ask athletic directors to nominate two of their student athletes for an opportunity to win this scholarship and that allows us to, you know, it's adding value to them completely independent of the character curriculum that we end up wanting. You know, we obviously want to sell that character curriculum to the athletic director at some point, but to add value and to create a relationship with them, we do something completely separate. So that would be my piece of advice is figure out what is that thing that you can add value to your prospect that has nothing to do that, you know, it's Independent. I don't want to say has nothing to do, but is independent from what you sell. And if you can figure that out, I think you're going to win perfect James. Thank you, so much. If someone's get in touch with you, what's the easiest way to do it? Hey, man, I'm all over linkedin. Last name is car be a R Y and then email is james a sweetfish mediacom. Would love to connect with anybody and everybody that wants to connect. All right, man, I really appreciate having you on the show. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, man. All right, everybody that does it for this episode, check us out. Of Be Tob Rev exactcom. Share the episode with friends, family, Co workers, and until next time, we have value prime solutions with you all. Nothing but the greatest success. Filling the top of the funnel is a challenge, especially in dynamic markets with shifting technology solutions and increasingly informed buyers. There is no silver bullet to effective prospecting, but value prime solutions has developed a proven framework and approach the delivers results. CHECK OUT VALUE PRIME SOLUTIONSCOM and ask how vortex prospecting can deliver more qualified leads for your teams. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much, for listening until next time,.

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