The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

How to Optimize Employee Learning to Drive Engagement w/ Isaac Tolpin


Employee learning has always been a challenge. More than ever, it's a crucial component of any organization. But how can it be meaningful and serve as a driver to boost engagement? Isaac Tolpin, Co-Founder at joins us to talk about how his team is helping companies take learning to a whole new level.

Content is now commodity. You can google anything and pretty much find it. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about how to optimize learning and organizations in order to drive greater employee engaging with training boost performance as a result, in fine ways to simplify the production of training content, will be focusing on the concept of micro learning and how what that is. We'll talk about some best practices, review some of the data around this and also talk about how it impacts culture in an organization. Tops tackle the topic, we have with US Isaac Tulpen, Co founder of convey yourcom Isaac, thank you for taking the time to be on the show today. So great to be your Chad so or. Before I jump in, I have to let the audience now. We've been trying to schedule this. Yeah, it's probably probably for six eight weeks now. And when we were originally doing this, my first question was around children and you actually had another one as we were getting ready to do this. And your wife. We're up to eight kids now out your wife's running. Yeah, rags, momcom give me some context around the man, it just makes you tired thinking about it. I'll give you the short of it. I mean a lot of times when when I had, you know, zero or a couple kids, I thought those people were crazy. They had a lot of kids. So we don't come from big kid background, but we just felt like what a great way to impact the world is is to to have one more. And you know, we kept having one more and kept having and preparing a bigger impact in the world. So our first one just went off to college. The rest are home still. So wow, aiden total congratulations. Man. I again to you and to your wife. I think that's amazing. Yeah,... makes it literally almost makes me speechless, which is hard to do. It's a lot of fun. They're great kids and you know, yeah, we're just passionate about you know, it's funny. A lot of stuff I learned in business I take to my family and it works amazing awesome. Well, let's time and let's get into the topic of a hand then some micro learning for our audience. Let's start with a definition so help them understand exactly when we say micro learning. What do we mean? Yeah, microl learning. The simple definition is delivering content in micropieces. The you know, lines better with human behavior, and I would say there's there's a whole, you know, newer definition that we're redefining to where there's a lot of components to it. Put in a simple basis, it's, you know, people have a short attention spans, so it's content broken down a small pieces. And so why did it become a passion of yours? What was there is a genesis for that. You know, I used to have an agency, Publishing Mall, where we would do the content side of you, learning for celebrity influencers, corporate trainers and so forth, and we would take a cut and they pay us big fees and and so forth. And when we were doing that, there really wasn't any technology. I was surprised, shocked actually, that there wasn't technology that aligned with where human behaviors today. And you know, we're in a youtube world, where in a Netflix world. We're in a world where everybody wants to use their phone and prefers it, and if you force them use a computer, they already don't like it. So so I just was I was dumpounded of how poor all the technology was, and that birth the idea to build something better from the ground up. That's an alignment with where human behaviors to perfect and at the heart of any type of education. There's just concept of Learner Trust. Right learners have to believe what they're being taught is useful to them. This has been a challenge for years and traditional training settings. That's why two trainers from the same company may not be created equally right or able to gain as much credibility with people that they're working with. I'm curious how you suggest people approach learner trust with micro learning and if there's, you know, a list of the right ingredients.

Yeah, absolutely, you know, couple learner trust is like trusting the content is one thing, but trusting you're not going to bore me when I get another lesson is another thing. And and so you could go two ways with that. We used to say a content is king and or Queen and feed rather, but I don't think that's true anymore. Content is now commodity. You can google anything and pretty much find it, guys. So you can youtube anything, pretty much find it. So what is King now or Queen? It is great content delivered in in a way that I enjoy the experience and that if you do both of those and then you have this one other element that has an objective at the end, then it's a big deal. Like if there's ten lessons and I know that's going to hid an objective of either just can satisfy something for my work or I'm going to completely know everything I need to know about x, Y and Z at the end of it, and it's great content and it's delivered in a way that I enjoy. It's not boring, it's easy, it's right for my phone. That's great. So and then your other question about the ingredients is really important. So this is where we've taken the definition of micro learning to a new levels, which is think about it this right now. If you've ever taken a course, probably the first thing that comes to mind anybody listening is boring. Okay, so that's forget. Let's be honest. Everybody. He's right. So let's first you you have to kill boring. And how do you do that? Well, you have to do these several things. If you build a lesson for for anybody, which is it's got to be within five minutes. I have to learn something within five minutes. So that means the video needs to be one to four minutes long and we can talk about complex subjects in the need for more content so forth later, because I'm not necessarily talking about less content, I'm talking about a lesson here. So ononder four minutes. It's got to be delivered through a mobile device. You know can it needs to work on everything, but it's got to be beautiful on a mobile device, where a lot of software gets wrong as they build it for a PC...

...and then make it work for a mobile dese like an LMS. Just some style. You like that? Okay. So then there's got to be rewards and whether anybody admits it or not, you've got to reward people. So first of all, there's got to be completion, so when I come back and I don't have to go to that again, I can go to what the next step is and tease it up for me. But also there's got to be gamification where there's a leaderboard and I get achievement currency and you know that kind of thing. And there's also going to be some social learning where I can see while other people are going through this, I can kind of get a sense for how other people answered something and those kinds of things. And if you Como. And then one last thing is you've got to have a real time notification. If notifications are through email, you've kind of blown it. There's so much guilt associated with Inbox, so you don't want to go there. All right. So if you accomplish those things and it all happens within five, seven minutes Max, you are keeping Learner trust and building Learner Trust. And then when you break it, is that one time or many times they go to ten or fifteen minutes for a lesson, because now they're going to like a next time they get a notification for a lesson, they're gonna be like, okay, is this one of those five minute times or is this one of those fifteen and right, they don't don't know what they'll get into. They don't know lock it into. Right. It's so anybody here you'll identify with a specially if you're an executive or business owner. Is that? Do I have fifteen minutes right now to do something optional? No, right. Do I have ten minutes now doing five minutes? Yeah, yeah, I do, and I enjoyed it. And there's that I want to make sure my name looks good on the leaderboard, even though you don't really say that to yourself, but you're subconsciousness saying that to yourself. So so, yeah, you got to have all those psychological factors in. You know, that sounds hard. Well, it's not. We actually made it super easy to do all that. And so what about pretension? Right, so, Justin time learning, of this micro learning. Have you seen it impact for retention for learners? Yeah, absolutely, Yea. I what my argument is that if you go micro you are creating a deeper learning experience...

...and some people, especially people are really care about the content, are like, well, there's no way I can explain this concept. And you know, five minutes. And what I would say is take your twenty minute video and break it into three five minute videos. Give rid of the fluff. You know, they can still consume it all on a row, but now you're in completion every five minutes. With gamification and so forth, you're hitting all the right psychological drivers. It's enough disruption and change happening to retain them. I'll give you an example. He's a Keyno Speaker, consultant on innovation, one of the best, and then he goes into a company and he leaves afterwards. A thirty day innovation challenge is built in our software and bringing him up because there's a case study we did on him where the three companies in the case study or capital one, marryotton, coke, and was fascinating because every time thea's deployed the same course to the people in those three companies. It was made optional and I think that's cool. In fact, they saw higher retention when they made it optional, which I thought was fascinating. But what happened was it was thirty lessons and they got one lesson a day over thirty days. It would text their phone and they'd be a link. They hit the link and boom, there in the next lesson and they can see any of the previous lessons after they do that lesson if they want to. When they answer, first of all be a game. If I question multiple choice was right, answer three wrong. Answers and they keep choosing until they get it right and they get a variable amount of points based on how they how much time they took and if they how many times they get wrong answer and the right answer, then a video appears one to two minutes of reinforcing that training. He did Viye with them and teaching that concept, and what was fascinating about is the retention was unbelievable. These were mental managers to them. So let's see here. Coke got seventy six percent completion of all content over thirty days. Mary on seventy seven and capital one was a hundred percent completion. Everybody did every single lesson. Wow, that's a big man, I mean be up that high in a voluntary thing, but actually hear... say one hundred percent. That's that's impressive. Yeah, it was beyond what I expect. It actually well, I mean it's great, it's a great case. Right, and so when? All right. So that's think about that though. Let's think about it for a second. Thirty days, you got a question, you got to cope with one to two minutes worth of video. Let's talk about the production of it. It. Some people are comfortable talking into a camera or thinking that way breaking it down. Some people aren't. Are there tricks that you have found, or I shouldn't say tricks, are their best practices or or ways that you have found to make that content production accessible in such a way that the energy continues to be consistent across you know, all those thirty days with a videos. Yeah, it's a good topic because this is where the breakdown is in LD departments, HR and so forth. They can never create enough training fast enough because productions so hard. So then you can never have see, you know, creating the right culture, influencing an organization, creating favor change can't be an event based thing. So if you just have training once in a while and it's not design in a way people enjoy, you're not really moving the needle you want to. You're probably solving your compliance issues with us about it. But if you fix production, if you take the friction out of your production, then you open the whole world up to you know, really moving you know, employee engagement, retention of employees, training, all of those things. And so the keys are, first of all, when it's a shorter video, it's easier to edit. So right it's it's easy it's easy now to shoot a three minute video and potentially capture it all on a one take. So you do like three one takes with somebody and you pick the best one. He added the front back and it's also people will tolerate a talking head video if it's under five minutes and if it's brought to life with engagement and so forth. They'll never tolerate it if it's just talking out them. But if they can experience content, with engagement formats and things like that around that video, than that's key. So so now we have a we have a big... already. The next thing is, you know, it doesn't have to be fancy. I mean even a new phone has good enough video quality to capture great video. I'll give you, guys an example. There was a led leader of a cold hospital conglomeer and eleven hospitals. He's creating training for them and he just like we got to make this easier, and this is before I ever talked to him, and he took out his iphone and captured a surgeon doing it. You know, a very short technique. Mis Surgeon had to teach this technique over and over and over and over and over again to other doctors and they were hoping to eventually get, you know, some training around this, and here's this land leader just going that's it, this taking way too long, whips out his phone, says do it, captures it in less than five minutes, puts it up on their website and it was like revolutionary for them. They're like, I can't believe you just did that and it's in. It looks good and you know, now I don't have to train this anymore. So I think that's an interesting example because, as surgeon, would be the most potentially careful in feeling like production needs to be really good or hospital, you would think, would need it, or we need to make sure this perfect. In reality, getting it out is what's perfect and making sure that the contents there. But now make sure you put it in a software that brings those videos to life, because if all the pressures on the video productions hard, but if there's software that brings that video to life, that was those pressure on it. Now we can go shoot those videos and get the best practices and share them. Yeah, and I like the point with that. I mean that, you know, linkedin videos and all that stuff is started to explode. Right, and everybody's tell this debate about what's too long, what's too short, and I just saw I think it's called smooth. It's a basically a Gimbal for your phone that you can I mean it's stabilizes it so you don't get the shaky other video. You can do quick shots, you can have it track an individual or something in a moving frame. So it provides a lot of the functionality to...

...produce really compelling content. And I think your point that it's you know, if you put the pressure on the video, things can break down. I think it's the delivery of that video. I think you've got a very valid point that everybody should really make sure they're they're catching, because it's one thing to put together the video. You can look great on film or on digital, but if it's delivered in a clunky way that creates friction. I think your micro learning starts to suffer. Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know, it also opens up an opportunity for just in time learning, which is so powerful because in what just as I'm learning, is is delivering a lesson to a person just in time, just when they want to consume it, and only giving them just enough to so they don't feel overwhelmed. What I think is dead is having courses in some web based library somewhere or videos somewhere and telling your employees to go watch them. I think that's completely dead. All you're doing is putting a big monkey on their back and eventually they feel guilty about it and they do it right before the deadline and they're not really learning and consuming and the experience matters. You've got to create things in a way that aligns with your overall culture, trying to build because you know really matters, but just in time training. Think I imagine this, there's people that have best practices in every department all over someone's company, and one of the greatest ways to drive the culture for is to make heroes out of people. And if you're if it's easy now to do production, to catch something, you take camera over, you can shoot Ay. Tell me how you're doing this or what's the best way to do that. And if you now are a part of your culture is every week everybody gets two or three lessons tripped out to them, then now it's easy to create content. You have ongoing rhythm of learning that drives a real culture forward. Learning culture and you're making heroes out of people by letting them be the trainers on some of...

...those videos, and I just think it's a massive wind for you. Know that initiatives companies. You're looking for well, and you talking. I mean I know we started focusing on culture, but that you're leading into cultural impact right, that concept of making your employees heroes. I mean the latest statue of the people learn better when they learn from peers. So to be able to see other individuals in those situations, I would think, would have to be extremely powerful for the individuals that are being trained or that are being showcased and empowering for the culture as a whole. Oh yeah, it's huge. It's huge. I mean, you know what, because when now? What are you doing? You're reinforcing good behavior your everybody else is learning from it and they're like wow, this is a way I can make progress. I mean, everybody, think about yourself for a second. You know. When do you feel the best? When you are learning new things in alignment within the area of your life that enables you to make the most progress. And so what is the way to have great employ engagement? Is To make sure people are getting the resources and learning and then getting recognized for implementing and doing things in the best possible way, and that recognition now gives them hope that people are paying attention to me and I can make progress in this company. Yeah, it's amazing. It has such wide ranging impacts and I was really curious, before we got to do this, the whole production aspect of it. Right, I started my career in marketing and then jump to the dark side of sales, but that whole production I mean it's always been a challenge. I think today, though, the tools are out there and to create you know when you're doing it in those small snippeture right, it's not hard to edit a three minute video and if you can speak correctly with moderating your ooms and os, you're right. Maybe able to get it one take it. It doesn't take a long time to get it out there. So I'm trying to think through like from a sales organization standpoint. If I've got a push in my quarter and I'm looking at my analytics and I know happen to know that I don't know. Maybe a big percentage of the deals are stuck in this certain stage and literally thirty minutes, you could put out a quick,... know, produce and put out a quick snimbit video to help individuals with deals in that stage and empower them, even globally, depending on the distribution of it, to take action. So it's not just just in time for people. It can also, I would think, be just in time for organizations. Or Am I missing something? Yeah, exactly right, you're exactly right. So and you can have a running campaign where you're just constantly adding new lessons to it. So, based on the needs of the sales department right now, you go, wow, I'm going to add let's do this next week, let's do this the following week, and you can be just adding it as you go and it's dripping these things out to them via tax door, a push APP, pushing notification or if your company's in the Dark Ages, you can do email. So I love it. I love it. No, Hey, hey, you're preaching to the choir. You're pretty quire, my friend. Excellent. All right, so let's change direction a little bit here. I ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions towards the end of each interview. The first is simply, as a revenue executive, yourself. That means you are a prospect for other individuals. So no doubt people are reaching out to you all the time telling you that they have something you need. I'm always curious to learn, if somebody doesn't have a referral in, if they don't have a relationship with you, what works the best to capture your attention, builds credibility and and inspires you to give them fifteen minutes to talk to him. If I can tell they wrote it, that they literally wrote it personal to me, because they looked at my linkedin profile. If it's very, very short and you're not asking for something, all right, when you wrote me the first time. Yeah, provide value first. That's a big one, right, provide value first, all, yeah, all right. So last question. We call it our acceleration in sight. If there's one thing you could tell sales, marketing professional services people, or in this case, HR and and learning teams, one piece of advice you could give that you would believe helped them hit their targets and, you know, can crush their quotas or whatever, what would it be and why it's I mean, you have a sales funnel and you have...

...people in varying places and it's give your best, your personal relationship best, to the people that are, you know, closest to close in your pipeline and you spend the most time with people have shown the most interest so far and make it very, you know, unique and personal. Excellent, excellent, Isaac. I appreciate so if a listener wants to know more about you or convey you orcom some specific place you would send them in addition to the website. Yeah, canby. You arecom, hy O, you arecom and then Isaac Tolpencom is kind of my personal stuff and you know, you mentioned curagious Momcom for my wife in the beginning. Yeah, and guys, let's let me stress that again. We're talking eight kids and they both run businesses. So I don't ever want to hear anybody tell me they're tired. All Right, Isaac, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to be on the show. It's been great to have you. Yeah, great to be here chat. Enjoyed it all right, everyone that does it for this episode. Check us out of BB REV exactcom. Do us a favorite its review on itunes. Until next time, we've value sewing associates with you all. Nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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