The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 11 months ago

How To Break Down Silos In SaaS Companies w/ Jason Reichl

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Silos are naturally created within every organization as that organization grows.

 

When companies don’t understand how to deal with organizational growth in a healthy way, they protect the things that occur naturally. 

 

So they settle for silos, even though silos hurt their revenue. 

 

To find out how to break down silos, I sat down with Jason Reichl, CEO of Go Nimbly, a revenue operations company helping SaaS companies as they naturally grow. 

We talked about: 

  • How silos are created and sustained 
  • How silos are hurting your customers and your revenue 
  • How organizations can break down silos through revenue operations

 

Hear more from Jason in episode 140 on The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

 

Listen to this episode and more like it by subscribing to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

It's imparative that technologycompanies, because I do believe Sass is the future of business like one day,will be the same as banking institutions that those companies learnhow to actually become a proper business. Proper revenue team, Youre listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated helpin executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies were tools and resources. You come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcomeeveryone to the B to be revenue executive experience. I'm your hostChat Sanderson! Today we're talking about how to breakdown silos and SASScompanies number one. Why is it so critical to do it, understanding whyit's hurting your revenue and the bigger question is how di O even getstarted cas these silos have a tendency to grow kind of organically as anorganization does. How do you even start to disassemble them and drive toa much more cohesive organizational approach to help us? We have JasonRichold, CEO of Gonimbley, the first revenue operations, consultancy, Jason!Thank you so much for taken time and welcome to the show. Awesome thanks forhaving me Chat, I'm very happy to be here so before we jump into the topicof the day. We always like to start with a nice breaker, and this is, Idon't know why this has been a its been a hot button topic forMelately B, because we've all been stuck at home to yeah doing doing awhole buch of other things, but curious, the people that know you largelythrough work or just your professional persona. What is something you're,passionate about that? Those that really only know you to work may besurprised to learn yeah. Well, I think that that's a little bit of hardquestion for those I work with, because anyone that knows me and follows kindof the things I believe and I believe in total integration ofself. I don'tbelieve, there's a such thing as a work, life, balance or separation. I believethat those things should be completely...

...aligned to find the most filment inyour life. So I think that most people are not surprised when they find outthings about me and and work, but I have always been a creative artist. Ihave toured and bands my whole life done comby my whole life just been veryinto the arts and I feel like that makes me really good at running ebisent,business and understanding groups in a way that is fundamentally intrinsic tome, and I really value that side of my personality, and so I think what wouldbe odd. The people is when tey come seethese things, how flushed out, like my being a band, is, or my hiht stand upcomby or my emprob people often ask me: Do Not Sleep and the answer is I dosleep a little bit, but really I try to do things that align and allow me tomake prodress an in my life andincluding work and have them all besort of emergent together. I'm a big fan and passionate about designthinking and designing the life that you want. So I think that's anotherthing that someone might be a little surprised about how intentionaleverything is that I do excellent. So the the bands in the comedy were thesethings that you picked up at a young age or came to later in life, found apassion, FRI yeah. I started playing and bands when I was sixteen of fifteenor sixteen and touring, and just doing that all through my adolescence andstill do that. Now, as I got older, it was harder to find time to being in aband with other people, and so if people know anything about musicians,is every musician thinks that theire comedian everycevery come wants to be amysician, so started doing, Mprovin and standup as asupplement to just really this community. That forum that I found thitbeing a bance another thing that I'm really passionate Bou, as I C A punkrock and playing in bands, and things like that, and so I have a very diyethic about myself and I love building communities and being part of creativecommunities. That's awesome! So, okay! So then, so we go from punk rock andcomedy to revenue operations. How the...

...heck did that happen? Oh, I think it'sa pretty natural natural thing. So one of the things that I got reallyinterested is so I was a consultant and ran a large consulting team for one ofsales forces sis for many many years had many people reporting to me. Thatwas great learned all about revenue sales. You know customer success, allthat kind of stuff, but being in Silkan Valle and based in San Francisco. Iwent and was the BPF product of a couple organizations and helped anorganization become a Unicorn Company through my to my product leadership,and what I found, though, is even in the best company where you were valuedat you know: a Billion Dollars. The revenue team really didn't know how tosell the product and it really wasn't operating like a business, and becauseof that I had this idea that Oh, I can probably teach SASS and pass technologycompanies how to operate like little businesses, because I believe that wewere moving into this era. This new era of customer, which we can talk about ina little bit, we're moving into a new ARA of a customer but more important W,also moving into a new era of funding where I think that BCS are going todiversify their portfolio, they're, going to still give ut a hundredmillion dollars, but they're going to give it to ten companies instead of onecompany, and because of that, I think it's imperative that technologycompanies, because I do believe Sass- is the future of business like it oneday, t will be the same as banking institutions that those companies learnhow to actually become a proper business, proper revenue team, and sowhen we save revenue operations, because you hit a bunch of differentareas, theyre funding to selling that product. Is there a concise kind ofeasy to understand for four audience definition, we say RASIO operations.What do you? What exactly do you mean yeah? So I'm writing a book about thisnow and and the there's two things that I say there's the definition that Itell my mom and then there is the professional definition. Sowe'll startwith the professional definition and...

I'll simple I'll, even simplify furtherfor those of people who, don't really you know, understand the inner workingsup, say the business systems right. So in your business, you have, in myopinion, to distinct fl wheels. You have a product side, your businessthey're, making the wigit, and that is made up f. If you're in a tech company,that's made up of programmers and product managers and people who want tomake sure that you have the margin or growth. You need- and that's calledthis- that's the business side of it. That's the product side and they're,usually driven by margin or growth right. Then you have this other flyworld called revenue. The revenue team and those people should be driven byrevenue growth and who is part of that revenue team. To me, it's salesmarkting customer success. I call that your go to market team they're, theones that are you know shaking the hands of the people they're the onesthat are interacting with people, even if it's by sending them an email right,but theyre they're, directly interacting on a one on one basis withyour customer and then you have the Yang tothat Yang, which is revenueoperations which are sales, operation, marketing operations and customer scesoperations merged into one generalist function. That's about servicing thecustomer experience at scale for the revenue team and they report to the CROor CEO. If you have you know CR and so that whole fly will becomes your rep anew team. So it's go to market and revonue operations become your repnoutine. So that's the more nuance. Do you understand how these thingsfunction answer and then the way described to my mom? Is You know if youthink about actors, and you think about the people who are in the scene? That'syour sales marketing customer oces people that your Gog to market and thenbehind Tis scenes the people who hold the boom, Mikes and oure directors andare the script writers and are all these other elements? That's yourrevenue operations, team, Exa, and so that that of you know helping people.Think of it as a movie set right, helps him understand what role those peopleare playing behind the seints, and so I mean just in that kind of divisionright the people behind the scenes. F,...

...the people in the scene we're alreadystarting to use language O or analogies that have natural division in themright, there's a natural vision. So when we talk about silos and business,it's not unusual. Ofas, most organizations out there for everybodyto talk about customer experience, but nobody to really know what the hellthat means or how to make it a reality, except in their particular silo. So howdo you go around and how do you help these organizations get rid of thesenaturally forming silos and get rid of the Dragor on revenue, where thenegative impact that they can have a customer experience? Yeah totally Wull.I think it's important to understand why siles get created. It is totallynatural. You know the Term Silo Syndrome, which is what we often talkabout. You know comes from this guy named Phil whoworked for good year tires and his job was to drive around the country andfind try to unite all the good reurtires and, if you know, rememberthe es and s good. Your tire wic was like in every small town in Aareah thathundreds of hundreds of places and regardless of what the corporationwanted, which was to streamline things and increase margin for everyone, andthese things were not franchised. They were owned by good yeartires, but whenhe went to thise individual markets, none of them all of them push backabout becoming this enety and they all use these excuses up. Wer, you don'tunderstand this market, you don't understand Xbyz and what he came upwith is really the four fundamentals of why Salos are created and trthey'recreated. One number of employee skyrockets, so good year tires, wasopening like a hundred hundred stores a year, essentially across America. So,of course, the number of employees are going to shoot up right, the number oforganization, an units, so each of those stores were unit. Then there wasregional units and then there was all this kind of Biak bureaucracy that wasbeing created from the structure itself and then because of tires, and becauseof where these things were located. There was a high degree ofspecialization in each good year tire, so they really couldn't run as a singleunit because everyone was specialized and then ultimately, it was also haw todo with incentives. They weren't all...

...built on one incentive, and so he wasdriving through Iowa and saw you know. The grains of silo and came up with theTerm Silo Syndrome is that they were all protecting these natural, thesenatural ocurring things, because the organization didn't understand how todeal with essentially organizational growth in a healthy way and he ment hisentire career. Trying to solve that problem. He died earlier in the earlytwosands and I think we are now with revenue operations just at the cust,with technology and other things to actually break down these silos, andthen I think the catalyst for that is that the customers are demanding adifferent level of experience, from B to be, which is very similar to whatthey've been getting in BTC- and I can talk about that. But there is acatalyst of the customer to so it's not only about our internal issues, butit's about customers wanting a different kind of experience in thebuying experience of ttheir experiencing theur business. So thoseare the sort of two things that I see yeah and we've. I mean we've kind oftrained B to be. I mean anybody lives, a BTC life. They have Amazon, theyaveNetflix, they have they've been to Disney. They all have had theseexperiences that are completely focused on them, what they want where they wantit, how they want when they want it, they take those expectations into be toB, but to deliver that type of complete experience from beginning toend the customer lifecycle. Whatever you want to call it, you can't have theSias. Are you end up creating friction points along the process, and so, whenyou start to do that, it drives organizations say hey. I'm focused oncustomer experience, but there's a difference between that and a customercentric approach and I'm curious to know kind of what your perspective onthe two. And why do you see organizations kind of talk, the talkbut not walk the walk, absolutely so, just to add to that a little bit. Sowhat we found through our research and we're doing is some we're doing we'removing into being a aremno operations company, where you know we're Brilliangsoftware out we're doing research. Where are doing coaching, we still doconsultancy for businesses, so we're...

...moving across the Gama of what I wouldcall revonue operation services and products. But one of the things thatwe're doing in our research is we found that we are past this age of the informedbuyer right, and so this is a thing. That's been lolled since. Well, I don'tknow the firt time I heard it was at a conference in, like you know, thousandnine hundre and eighy nine or something right. So the idea that your buyerknows more about your product than the sales rep they're talking to becauseI've done research is just complete, Corse Shit at this point. People arecoming to your product because they want to buy it they're, coming with theintention to buy everyone at this point understands the Internet. Theyunderstand how to do their own research so when they get to your website andthey interact with you, they are they want to buy you, maybe sometimes in thebureaucracies that theyr existent they have to maybe have two or threecompetitors put against each other, but everyone's been in the sale cycle wherethat person saying well, I really want you, but I have to do this to please myboss, right O beureaucracy of silos at work in itself. So what I found is whatends up happening. If someone comes to one of our customers is Zan Desk as anexample, Sind Tus is a huge customer service platform. That's very popular,for you know, doing ticketing, customer service work, people come there becausethey want to buy his endus right. What ends up happening, Thou and you calle.It friction, but it's worse than that. The customer experiences gaps justtotal fallout from your own processes internally. It feels like friction tothe customer. It feels like gaps and what we found is that customers willreduce their long term commitment with you, their contract value and you'lleat away their political capital to the point where you're losing what theywould have given you and we've done this to asking people like okay, wereyou sure you one of the Bui in this? Yes after Meing One? I was sure I wantto buy Zintis. So why didn't you then teplayit across theur entireorganization, and then what emerges? Is these gaps a road, the trust right, andso that is the key, and so what we systematically found is how doyou identify those in a way? That's scalable right and that's what revnueoperators do. Is they understand what...

...the gaps are and how to solve them,skilled with scale ability? So we invented a revenue revenue operations,metric called thre VC, which takes your bind experience and a buying experienceis just how your customer buys you and most be O, be enterprise sales. It'sthey talk to an str they get handed off to you know they see some marketing.They go to your website. The dawnlism stuff and that'SCR c beaches out tothem. NSR then passes that off to a sales, REP sells ju takes into somepoint some at some point in implementation. Specialist gets broughtin so on and son. So that's the process of one buying experience for a customersaying enterpricass. What we do is we apply thre vc to it, which is we lookat th that Sales Data on volume, velasity conversion and value, sothat's threets in one C and what we find is we put them against themselvesright, and so we can see oh from stage one stage two. In the last six months,your volume has been down, your customers are experiencing that rightor your velocity is down the customers are experiencing that, and we actuallylook at that. Historically, we also thedn take that, because gonimbly hasthe largest data source ofsass space businesses operationally we manage overtwo billion dollar for our customers. What we then look at is industry to sowe didn't match that against to how well are you doing in our industry, sowe find that you have these gaps and certain buying experiences by doingthat analysis. Now, that's not your traditional sasmetrics. We don'tcare about Kak, because we are not. We don't care about margin. All we care isabout finding the gaps ar going to crease rabbit right and we're hopingthat the rest of Your Business and that other fly will knows what to do once webring in the revenuebut, but but our goal is to increase the revenue andonce you put that up as an North Star- and I really do believe in givingeverybody n that go to Marketein Tho sales, marketing, a customer successteam and the Revenue Operation Team, a number they must hit so when we go intoa engagement is not uncommon for us to say, Hey, don't think F as an ry bat.Think of US ask: How are you going to have that million dollar target foryour sales team and you're going to get...

...a million? You know three hundredthousand off because of the operational changes that were making got it. Okay, and so you said somethingthere's a bunch there that we could divinto, but I'm the everybody has anumber they could hit. So are you advocating commission basedcompensation for everybody on Revopso? Yes, yeah, I loveit. Everyone should have some kind of base that they can make a living offHif. I think that sometimes sales base is too low, but I think that everyoneshould be in sentovize either through a Bonu structure or pure commission basedon t the growth of the organization. I love it. I am a huge proponent of thatas well, and that definitely does help start to break down silence. But arethere other ways that you go about? You know because, even even if you take acustomer success, marketing sales, the people on the stage there's naturalsylos there, sometimes because the marking people don't have the same typeof COMP, sometimes because they don't understand what the sales people do.How do you go about breaking those down and using this type of data to help youaccomplish that yeah? So we so we're looking across the buying expenserwe're not prioritizing sales right, we're using sales data to say so. As anexample. Often, if you have an issue and stage one t state two or stage twoto sixt three, it's usually a marking operation issue, that's happening right!So you can you understand by doing this work as a REVNU operator, that you canlook at this data and infer. I am a big proponent and the software we arebuilding allows you to go further back than this s, just the opportunitystages to the entire customer, experience right and start to look atdata trends inside of that customer experience. But in order to get started,witheveve new operations, you just need your opportunity data, because you'llfind things that really make a big difference there. So that's the firstplace. I say the second thing that we do is we come in and we start to buildroadmaps. So we operate businesses like product companies, so we put everythingup on a roadmap and we say why it's there and why we're prioritizing it andwhat we're hoping to get out of it, and...

...then we actually monitor that. So as anexample, in th the example, I gave UF stage one stage two. If we saw that wehad a low conversion issue and we decided had something to do with our markting attribution that we're notwe're not attributing the right kind of attribution to these accounts and sothen they're not getting flagged as ready for a sales rap to work. On asimple example, we may then monitor that and go okay. We've changed this.We did an operational project here and now we're seeing the volume increaseand the conversion rate stayed the same or went up right. What we would then doover time a say: We'd think that there's a correlation, maybe notcausation, but a correlation to this operational project that we did andthis going up right and so that Bridgeis the gap where then suddenlyeveryone starts to play on the same team, because everyone actually caresabout that. So I don't believe necessarily in giving each individual anumber and making them many sylens themselves. I believe in making thatrevenue team have a number right and yes you can you have to figure out whatdepartment can drive, what you attribution ton other methods,tultimately everyone should be playing the same game right and then so it's alot of work. We do around just that kind of alignment, but the roadmaphelps tremendously no operations team a year and a half ago we started doingthis work in the way that we do. It now had road maps. Now, probably twentyfive percent of SAS copanies that we go into have a Roadmat for theiroperations team that is built on right now, xthougr experience al. I think Ishould probably pause and explain another concept. That's pretty CCORDOrevenue operations based on their past experience, but tthey're using a rodmapand what that tends to do is aliging people to the greater good right andit's very important, because the reason that Silis, one of the reasons thatsiles occur, is because people lose sight of what's actually beingaccomplished right and the other thing that happens and that we're big fone ofis we go into organizations and we say: okay, there are such things asthere'slet's. Imagine there's just holy grilled revenue impact, this thingwhere the teams are working well...

...together and we can impact revenuesuccessfully. Well then, that might take a long time. So if you make afundamental change to your business ord, what restructuring your sales team, youmay not see the revenue impact of that operational decision for six months.Let's say so. How do you know it's working then? And this is where we say:okay, there's a difference between the KPIS we've used before which our vanitycapis and what we call revenue momentum kpis mean that we have correlated thatthis KPI re will result to dollaors right, and so we can then make asmaller goal of saying. Yes, revenue impact is kind of this high nore starthat were after, but in the sky. There are other stars right that you use tofind the North Star and those are what we call. You know your revenue momentumKPA all right. So when we do, we talk about metrics, the vanitymetrics versus the revenue. You know, momentu metric HP help break just oneor two examples, so the audience gets the difference yeah. So in sast it'stypical that doing a demo of your product, a humandemo of your product increases, especially enterprise sales increasesthe likelihood a close one by seventy five percent right. So you could saythat for each Dimo we do that's like fivedolars in the bank right and sowhat we try to do is do this conversion of behavior that drives dailyrepetitive action within your go to market teams, and we try to attributelike every time we do that action. It's like making ten bucks right and bydoing that, what you're building is a behavioral set that will lead to truerevenue impact over time, but often it takes a long time to get to reintuimpact. In the example I did before was you know you want to rearrange yoursales team, you can rerange your sells team, but it's going to take them threeto six months and Reala for you to see that impact of that igbut. If you havethese Kpis that you can drive, you can see. Okay, we are making progress,because I know that the more demos we do, the more that we're going to closedown the line and that's how a way that...

...you can bring the team together andwhat we find is by crating these revenue Kpis. It almost createsgameification of Mile steds. I hate the word gameification Om ther. We use alot in the you know, two thousand and ten era yea and I kind of justdisappeared, but it creates a gamification of we're on the same team,we're making the same movie yeah it's and going back to the knowledge toteyuse before every actor is trying to act, their assoff, but the best actorsare giving something that their seen partners right and so ultimately, whatyou're trying to accomplish is this idea that there are these mile sensthat are beneficial to the entire revenue team and that everyone candrive off them. One Vanity Metric Thatis, very common is the MTL Tho sqlhandoff volume right and what happens us? Sales head of sales goes to amarketing, ops or Markthe had a Barkingoes, we don't have enough leadsand the whan does a marking, ouse person always say: okay, I'll lower thescoring threshold. So you get more leads. Well, that's the firstidentification that that's a banidy KPI that the marketing team is set up inorder to when the sales teem doesn't hit their goal say. Well, I gave youall the leads that we committed to right, and that is the definition ofSyro. Protecting right is like. I don't want to be tied to the failure of thesales team, so I'm going to create this, this handoff metric that is actuallymeanless because as soon as someone tells me, they want more volume from me.I'm just going to treat my numbers in reality. If you really believe insomecompanies ther their score, theyr marking, you know their lead score, asexample is real, and if you went to the head of sales and said are held head ofmarketing and said, I will need more leads they're going to go well, we needto find new sources because that's a real number, that's tied to realrevenue for them right right, so the quicker they are to abandon that number.The more organizations can start to see. Oh that's a Bandy, mentric right, themore h you know. One thing I hate to say about sels people is a lot of time.Forecasting calls are all damnmity, it's all it's all this, like dog andPony, show. That has really nothing to do with. You Know How many times haveyou talked to a sales manager and they get off the phone, and you go wol, wellthat your Pypon lookes really heath and...

...they go it's not it's not at all. It'slike okay! Well, we don't really believe in this. So why are weinvesting all this time and energy and in something that we don't actuallybelieve in is going to create revenue for us right and Ho love it o? So so so that'sour philosophy behind all of it and where this comes into and how you getto that customer experiences- and this is just real, quick, a major part of people to wrap theirbrain around. Is We've existed in and there's a pyramid, a hierchey. If youwill ind the first level of Hirorky with business operationally isintuition based someone walks into a room of sells reb says I hate the salesforce page WTOUT. This is really hard on me, a salesforce addment on theoperation side Egess. I can fix that for you, pom intuition, right, there'ssomething that's wrong! Someone can fix it. We're moving forward. This isstartup land right. This is how all start up to exist and operate. Then youget to experiential operations and experiential operations is when youhire someone from some company you admire with pretend you hired them fromlinkin. You bring them in and they go. What linked in we did. You know we didthis for lead scoring or we did this, for you know stage gating and det at Tadi that- and you say, okay cool. That sounds great. You have the experience,ore ill, listen to you, but the Upper Eshelon of all of this, its customergap operations where you are finding the gaps of your customers experiencingyour process and your operationlyisin those and what you'll find is. Youstill can relye in the experience and you can still r rely on the tuitionbecuse intuition, because people have rak intuition and people have greatexperience, but you'll prioritize and push yourself to solve a problem whenyou focus on those two areas that are is real, but won't have the impact thatyou want for your business, yeah Gotcha, and I mean it really ismore like I mean I remember back in the day when database applications weredesigned from the ground up in the user, interface was put on it as anafterthought right and now we designed from we designed we designedapplications for years. Finally, well, most people did from the Co from theuser back now. It feels like we're getting to a point where we'redesigning or optimizing businesses from...

...the customer experience back ratherthan the product forward. Absolutely, and that's why I mean my Practiceis, Ibrought what we've been doing in product management for the last twentyfive years. I'm braiing that, to you know the operations of businesses. NowI love it awesome all right. So, let's Change Direction. Your a little bit. Weask all of our guests two standard questions. The endofeach interview hasa CEO that makes you a prospect for other people out there that are Trato.Get your attention always curious to understand. If somebody doesn't have areferral, indio trusted way to get an introduction. What works best for youfor somebody to capture your attention and earn right to your calendar Yeh. Sohere's what I don't like, I don't like, cleverness or wittiness, becausethey're, usually not clever or witty, so don't try to be overly impersonalwith me, be personal with me actually be personal with me like tell me why I should care in one sentence aboutwhat you have and it can't be like. Don't you care about leads a fuckingcourse. I Care About Lak. Why do you think you're going to give me leadsright like what about you versus everyone else is going that you thinkthat and then to show me. You understand my business. If you messageme and say you're in the high text space, it's like yeah me and thirtythousand other companies. Why are you talking to me, and so it's beingpersonal and there's this woman named Beck Holland? Who is amazing? Who Doesthis she plit? My funnel is the name of her Er podcastand company and she doesgreat work around personalization at scale and for every sales manager whosays you can't personalize, because it takes too much time. I say: Okay, goodluck as you watch, especially in the age of Covid, as you wash yourpipelines dry up. So then tell me how much time you have so I would telleveryone that be personal. Try to find. I mean for me, I'm you know publicfigure. I do these kind of things all the time you can find something. That'sgoing to relate to your product that I've said if you can do that, I'm goingto listen, I'm going to at least...

...respond to you and be like hey. Ialready have a solution for this or hey, I'm not in the market. For this or hey,you probably shouldn't be asking the CEO of an x million dollar companyabout what they do about their leads could yess what that's not my decision.You should know that I mean so like you know those kind of things Itri to always be kind and respond to people, because I know how hard thatjob is, but I think it's about being personal and ultimately listening tothe feedback that you're getting this. This thing where it's like hit one, ifyou want this hit to, if you want this, I'm like. Why are you acting likeyou're, a robot now right like leave that to robot software like I don'tneed to hit nothing, I just won't respond to you and I'll dolete, youremail yeah. I lwas love the ones like hey. You didn't respond to my lastemail. Well, no cuse, no shat didn't care about it right, yeah and if someone said Hey, I sentyou an email and you didn't give a fuck about it. I probably like yeah you'reright you're. I'd probably respond to them and be like you're right and then,if they said well, why didn't you care about it if they even just change thetopic from trying to sell me their product to hey, give me some feedbackabout this you're going to get a conversation with Jason Ricel. So Ithink that's something that people should should realize is: There'salways an opportunity for you to grow, even if someone's not going to buy yourproduct. Take that because most of these people that company that they'reworking for is not going to be their career, so take the time to grow as aprofessional. Absolutely all right last question: We called our acceleration ininsight. One piece of advice: If you could just give one piece of advice tosales, marketing, professional service people, the people on the stage, onepiece of advice that you think if they listen to outd, help them achieve orbeat their targets. What would it be and why Yep hundred percent of yourcustomers that bought your product bought your product and what I mean bythat is the idea of leads and prospects andgrowing your business through. that. Is it's not a real thing anymore right, soyou need to refocus on your customers who ga bought your product and workvery hard on Upsele crosssand make your...

...customer your customer service orCustomer Success Team, be a revenue driver for your business you'll pick upsomewhere between five and seven percent of your quota. If you do thatright and it's a huge deal so invested operations and invest in customersuccess, because those customers that bought are a hundred Percent Tho peopleere going to buy more from you and you need to learn to leverage them. Salesmanagers. Don't think like this until they're not they're about to not hittheir quorta right, deseveration yeah. So instead, let's think the other wayaround and then go hey for us. The secret saucs for our success has beenthe people in our industry leave their job every two years right and sothey've brought us to every organization that they go to. So wehave an infidite supply of new customers and we have a two to fouryear tenure with the businesses that we work with. So we have grown a hundredpercent year over year, except for this year of Covid. Because of that, so youneed to understand what that is for your business right. What is what isthe virality effect for Your Business and how can you get into that andproduct management? We call that the hook every product needs a hook. Sowhat is your you know your delivery hook for yoursales team and for your go to market team, and how can you exploit that? Andit's not just getting more leads by going to trade, shows that's nobody'sHook. That's like you know, you're, just fishing and hoping you catchsomething. But how do you make sure you catch the right thing over and over andover again is what you should be looking for, and I think the otherpiece of wice I would give to sales managers is become a cro but realizethat their o stands. For you know, chief revenue officer which really tome means that you have to understand marketing customer SS operations aswell. As you understand, sales right. The value of a sales person becoming acro is that you can teach those other departments urgency, but those otherdepartments can teach you so much about...

...maximizing value for customer, and so Ithink that's that's a tha piece of advice. HTHAI would give any one toaccelerate themselves. I love it. Ello Jason. If vilisters interested intalking more about these topics or there's some particular place, you wantus to go for them to to learn more dive deeper on go nimbly. Where do youprefer? We send them yeah? So you know you can always go go a nimble. You havea very good blog about revenue operations. We only work with sort ofthe enterprise BTB SASS companies are AU pricing, model kind of makes us notable to work with everyone. So we put out content for everyone instead toreally help with that leadership. But, more importantly than that, you know myphone number, I'm going to give it to everyone. Here is four hundred FIVESI:Six: Nine Zero Fivefor! Six again, it's four huned, five, six, six, nine zero!Five. Four six text me your questions about revenue operations text me yourquestions about Your Business, I'm happy to help, and I think that we arein the age of transformation very similar that we went through frommanufacturing to lane manufacturing or waterfall development to adgiledevelopment. The businesses who get this revenue operations thing in theimplement. It will have a unfair competitive advantage for the nextfifteen to twenty years so get on it. Now you know help your business surviveright now and where we are in our time and space, it's very important to cometogether as a community and help one another. I love it. I could not agreemore. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's been an absolute pleasure tohave a conversation with you today. Thank you, man. I reall appreciate chatall right, everybody. You know the drill it does it for this episode, beTobe Revezeccom staight with friends, family coworkers, if you're stuck athome kids will love it too. Till next time we have valu selling associateswithyou, nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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