The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 years ago

How to Avoid a One Night Stand with your Customers w/ Sangram Vajre

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Human experience is everything. To build an effective ABM strategy, you need to take the time and build relationships.
Joining us is Sangram Vajre, host of the FlipMyFunnel, podcast who chats with us on his journey in building Terminus and the importance of taking the time to really know your customers.

The reality each other is that Adien is a strategy, not a tactic. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about why the concept of human to human, or H to age, continues to grow in importance, and sales and marketing. We're going to talk about ways that you can assure your building relationships and avoiding one night stands with your prospects and customers, and why flipping the funnel is so critical to success. To help, to help us, today we have with us Sun Croom, vager, Co founder a chief of aigelst the terminus, host of the daily Podcast, I ess I did say daily, Flip my funnel and author of account based marketing for dummy Sanger. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show, Chad. Thank you so much that's great. injurer. All right. So, before we jump into topic of the show, help us understand a little bit more about terminus, where the company came from. Him. Why would you want to enter the crowded martext base? Well, the good news is that we did not enter the crowded space. We actually created the crowderspace. Say, if we begin with like your two thousand and fifteen, when when we started the company, you know, Abim was nowhere to talked about it. There wasn't even Google ranking on that, that phrase, and that's why I wrote the book a countress marketing, which is the very first book on Accountress Marketing Two Thousand and sixteen, because that ought to be. It was really important to get this message out there that this is the new way. And you can imagine, like two thousand and sixteen, writing a book on a topic that didn't exist was a big gamble in itself. So I would say we, I W winter to say, and we probably are responsible somewhat, for creating a crowded market on this tuff on this crazy topic of accompass marketing. It seems to be at the norm right now. Well, I mean it's growing so much in awareness right. So it's like any time you know, and you've seen this before, or anytime there's a new market, you have to do a lot of education up front and then when the market gets older, you have two little bit of re education, because everybody seems to think they know what it is without having spent the time in the in the barrel, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely, Man. I think what's what's interesting is, you know, three years ago, two thousand and sixteen ish, when we were we launched the book, we launched the company, tournament us, and were we believe you're one of the fastest very company when it comes to ABM, with over six hundred comes to customers doing purely accountress marketing step. So from that ratio perspective, you feel like they're head of it. But we did hit in the last couple of hours this incredible flux where people are like, yes, we want to do adm, but we don't know where to start and if you...

...don't let you know. That's kind of yes, you know, like Yes for what? Like? So there's been a really interesting time where you're absolutely right. It is become crowded. There's a lot more people. Everybody slapping ABM on top of their whatever existing beat are. And the reality, chat is that Aden is a strategy, not a tactic, and I think that's why there's so many people who could say they're doing snippets of ABM and there they want we long it. Yeah, it's definitely not. It's not rocket science, but it's not super simple. You have to approach it the right way. You have to approach it, you know, in a macrom microway. Part of that micro element is the hth that we talked about right. So, human to human. I'm curious. I mean this is a big topic for me because I believe in, you know, sales. If you can't connect with the human being, you're not going to buy from them because you're not gonna have trust. But help me understand from your perspective why hed h is so important in in account based marketing? Yeah, at the end of the day, you know, when we start starting to robots, I think we get having bat until we're in business. Are Be sending to humans, especially if you're a BEDB and to complete fine cycle, there are more people, people in the decisionmaking process. The sale cycle is six, eight, nine months. If you are facing it, all of these things. The reality is that you're selling to units, which is why it is so much, and you're probably setting it for a much bigger price. With all that in constant in contact. Human to human is the only way I considers thinking about these things, because it's no longer than end up. Well, you do. You have better features than your competitors. It's more of like who do they trust more? Who Do they feel like they have a back? Who Do they feel like they get a resonated called the phone when there's an issue? Because you're really selling in the early stage as a you know, Oh yeah, we can solve all the problems, but everybody knows when they actually find the solution, when they buy it, the customer service, the customer success, they could be problems and the salesperson is gone and moving on. So if people don't want to be in that issues. So I feel human to human is not just a selling process on a selling type ducting. It's actually that type experience off your brand that in customer or future customer experiences. Well, I agree one hundred percent. I think that spot on right. It's not just about how I'm selling you, it's about how I'm maintaining that relationship with you, which is where the marketing comes in, around capturing your attention to say hey, you know what, it's worth having a relationship with us and we'll take care of you as we do this right. It's a it's a concept I hear a lot of people talk about and most people I know struggle with it. So I'm curious if in your experience with your you know, as you guys have grown, what success have you seen some of your customers have by putting that h to h interaction at the heart of what they do? Oh Man, like I'll share. Like you know, I think that they be okay. You literally have me have a stop by by customer viers literally an hour ago, Snow Flag and Daniel Day runs director. He is the director of ABM. He is he has fifteen people on his team and they're Ug user of Perman as problem or the most sophisticated gaming practicers, and they're like look, we're going to do one to one...

...campaign of two and five, six hundred companies, one to one. Think about that. A one, two, one, email, one too one, add one to one direct mail, all that being set for one to one campaigns, and not only that, they are going to go and do retargeting, which is supposed to be done to anybody who comes to a website. They go to retargeting one to one, which to me was mind blowing. So they're running about five, six hundred campaign they want to run thousand campaigns, one to Onezero campaigns, because they know that each one of those companies are unique. The needs or unique. The industry might be unique, there are stages might be very unique. So they want to make sure that they are not trying to put the same message to everyone. They recognize the value and it then when they close deals, they are closing deals faster, a lot more because they're giving this oneto one unique human experience that they just not getting anywhere else. Well, that's a piece of the technology right. It allows us. I mean not only do we have, you know, I remember, I'm old enough to remember when what we knew was how they're about this age and they live kind of in this area and maybe they do one or two things, but now, with all the data that we have, that personalization element has gone from, you know, new thing to everybody expects it. You have to be able to provide that. So being able to operate like that is a great use case for for this type of approach. Is that how you know? We talked as we were prepping. How do you not have a kind of love, your phrase, one night stand, with your customer? I would love you to elaborate on that a little bit before my dirty mind runs the wrong way. Oh, I know, and that's why I get called that partular topic without even know if they were like, yeah, we short to talk about this. It's obviously a you know, something that people would like. What waiting there? What is what do you really mean at it, and it almost is accusing me included. Write me as a marketer, as a one night stand market, because we really want our future customers to just jump in the bed with us right down the very first day. We want that to soon as we pick up the phone and call. We want them to set up an appointment. Better this as a pot you want to be to close the deal and we close the deal. We want them to pay and then just be happy. But regardless of what's going on behind the scenes, you're not making them fully aware of it. So I feel like we're treating them and if you notice in this whole conversation I never said the word process, and the reason is because I believe if you are truly doing a pm and if you truly are not treating your future customers as one night stand, which means you don't care how many come in and go, then you will be calling them future customers because you will not be wasting time on companies and people that are not going to be the best fit accounts for your best fit customers for you. So this is the Big Aha moment that I had in like ten years and, like you know, before that I was running marketing at part out, as you know, at going through that acquisition and sales forth, I realize that we're all playing the volume game and with the volume you almost instantly discredit the human level...

...value for somebody because you're playing the numbers game. And instead of that, then you come to ABM. Your Universe is not infinite. Your Universe is actually maybe two hundred or two thousand countries that you can possibly sell that year. So that is all you can sell to. You will not treat them as a number. You would treat them as individual. You create those one to an experience, as we talked about, and that's why I feel like in order get us out of that mindset of one extent, marketer, it is for us to recognize as your short in the arm, that men. If we are not tweating our future customers as customers even before they become out of customers, then we are prospecting. And if you're prospecting, that's what nobody likes to be prospected be UN dead. Nobody likes to be veiled out of the ocean. So why do we treat and say words like that? It's a power of language, right. It's the power language to change the way we see the world around us and the way we choose interact with it. I think it's a very subtle and elegant way of putting it. I love that you're not using the word prospect. If you start to think of them as future customers now you're already thinking about a long term relationship. So you're not going to do things that may be potentially viewed as nefarious or not above board right. You're going to have more respect for each of those interactions. I think its a very, very powerful, but powerful point. So I've got to ask you, host flip my final audience members. If you haven't checked it out. Highly recommend it is a great show. is on my list of ones. I listened to all that. I'm at the gym, but you're doing it daily. How how do you can? I do this once a week and I find myself occasionally going how the hell am I gonna get all this done? How do you pull it off? Well, I mean you know you you're right. It's a lot of work, but I thought that for me I started out because like hey, you know, why not? I'm having this conversations every day. So they're not our long most of my podcast. Some of them are ten minutes, some of them are fifteen minutes. It's literally every days a different day. On Monday I reterally rerun a recorded session from a flipmuth or conference that you've done, and we have two hundred or three hundred of those nice farm means. It's like Mondays of free me and it just have into and out drop and those are insane, the amazing content. I feel like one of the best ones. On Tuesday I int you somebody and those are like twenty, twenty five minutes. I keep you super short, and on Wednesday it's literaling me and James WHO's proper producers talking about? What are we learning? You know, what the prode what are the stumbling blocks? Like you know, I talked about concerts like and I feel sometimes like getting on and just keeping it raw and real. otherly get that fifteen minutes on Thursday I give you somebody here at terminus silt pretty how comes ever, my head of product, and you're talking about my hey man, this is a really tough problem to solve, but like, okay, let's just talk and be as we're talking and recording it, and he doesn't even know we were recording. To be the whole thing goes up and it goes on the pot lex station far for flow. And then Friday we just talked about a community or so in reality I really do...

...maybe two podcasts a week. The rest of them are just a collaboration, conversations. That happened anyway. Well, I think that keeps it more alive for your audience, which you know, and I love it. I love it again. I if I had to say, I'd say Monday is the one that I love the most. Now, granted, I love James. I mean James helped us get this show off when he was just out here in Denver. I think she shot a video with you too. Didn he? Did he come out there? And Yeah, yeah, he was just out here shooting a video with us. And so James is always entertaining. Love the Guy, but I'm curious where the title came from. Help me understand this concept to flip in the funnel, Oh man. So this wasn't the way early days of launching terminus. I was at I wanted to be launched terminus, and then I was at scarbreakers conference. That the first, wait, first marning conference in early two thousand and think two thousand and fifteen maybe, or two thousand and sixteen. And I was just at this conference and I saw until Raleigh, who most of your listeners product now social selling clean as it's been choosing, called and she was there. I'm like, wait a minute, why is this selling somebody who is in sales on as a key up at a market conference? Ten didn't make sense to me. And then when the more I heard and the more we connected on my dad, this is pretty couel makes sense of some marking together and at that time I was just forminating a way to talk about cut through the noise, like how are we going to talk about our company, termed us, who's based in Atlanta. First Time founders, time to build a new category. Like you know, it's almost like you know this, you know in destined to fail. So how do we talk about ourselves in a way that that will cut through the noise and and get people to think about it? And so I was going to flight from San Francisco Atlanta, which is a five hour round flights. You have a lot of time to do stuff, and I was sitting in the middle seat and there was no internet. Know I find going on. So it was going to be crazy. The two people next to me were drunk, which is a huge motivation for being very creative. So I tried to collect myself up and I had an a piece of Napkin Hannah and a pencil or pen at that time, and and I just started to draw the original traditional funnel, which is brought at the top, he at the bottom, and our pure cuniosity chat I literally flipped it over and said, what if you re imagine this and called it something different? Circle flipping funnel, flip my phone and then before I knew I was writing all the stages and I end up writing a blog that I sort of the lant. If you reposted it on Lind it, that went viral, which means two people read it, if you world, and it was awesome. So and then I bought the domain, which was for eight bucks, and that just became a way of talking about the problem without talking about the product. Excellent, excellent, that's amazing. I love it. So, when we look at ABM for two thousand and nineteen, since we're coming towards the end of two thousand and eighteen, what are the big changes you see out there that people should be aware of? What risks should they have their eyes open to and get in front of? Well, the biggest one I feel that people talk a about demand problem, as if there's unlimited demand and unlimited supply...

...of things right in and I feel like it's just a wrong way to look at it. I feel moving into two thousand and nineteen, I would love for people to focus more on pipeline and pipeline velocity, which means we're trying. Let's not let's star created demand problem. That's way a pipeline problem. I was interviewing somebody on the flip off the podcast. I think you might know Handy Paul. Yeah, and he was saying that, Hey, look, you know, fifteen years ago, when he was running sales at some company, the pipeline to revenue was like one x or maybe two X, which means you have to only create two weeks fight. Right now the standard is for x or five x fight, right, so we have to break so much more pipeline. And he's like when that is just crazy and I've never donin me until we talk like Oh yeah, we creating five times the pipeline, which means that we are literally saying that one or the five deals will actually come word into an opportunity and potentially close. So, instead of just creating this infinite demand, as we all assume there to be, which is not true, one song pipeline and say how we can come work more to convert faster, converord bigger deals and I think really focus more of our time and energy on pipeline. LASCI ORI engine campaigns excellent. So let's let's talk about terminus a little bit. So found in two thousand and fifteen. You guys really work on early into the ABM space. Came Out of part of for anybody who didn't catch that, which I use, I have used in the past. I used to be a customer. Thank you. And so when you look at you know, there's all the questions about what's it like to start a company and all of the emotional roller coaster of crap. I can be able pay my bills this month until it takes off. You know, I think everybody's covered that to death. I'm curious when you think about, like where you sitting right now and we're terminus wants to go. What's the biggest challenge, say, between you and your goals at the end of two thousand and nineteen? The biggest judge, I think, for us right now is that there is a lot of noise and getting people, as you said, like it seems to rob it, and some people, is you mentioned, like you know, might look at us as every other company that's coming out there, because everybody's get need horror and a lover. And just the way we started with this idea of flipping phone and getting people, I said about this new idea. Now there's so many more people on it. We need to reinvent ourselves both from a product platform and brand perspective, to re emerge as again more sophisticated leaders of it, given that we as six, seven hundred customers, knowing, seeing what the stories are going on. So we feel like it. It's just so much noise and we want to come out there and try to be the company that helps simplify some of these things so people get truly understand and right now I feel like they are getting super confused. And so and so, what are some of the challenges that you think you're going to have doing be focused on over the next you know, you you're in a half in order to achieve that goal of simplicity? Yeah, I feel jat messaging is such a simple things, like such...

...a simple thing to do, but it's probably the most complex things to do work through, and I feel like that is our we have to reiterate ourselves oil or again and figure out what we're doing. So, for one one then we acquired a company called right file in two thousand and sixteen and post our last year December twenty seventeen, and if you think about it as a startup company, we went from the coal founders to over two hundred people. Acquiring another company like this is a lot going on and just beyond just like where you pay your bills as like we're you know who all are, the people they need to pay you. But it has been very strategic for us to go in a quiet company. That is going to be the best thing for us and their specifically for our customer. New Strategy with older analytics, that platform. So we're trying to change that. So there's a lot of reframing of the problem that we need to focus on. Excellent. Thanks. So how do you guys? Do guys have a process methodology you're going to use to do some of that stuff? Where is it? You know, you know, when it comes grown up fast as you should go from three to two hundred. That's a big jump. We know there's a lot of challenges there. How do you how do you prioritize them? How? What advice would you have for other people in similar situation? Well, I mean I'll tell you, you're not perfect and we face this problem and criticism internally, which is good, because people will literally tell us, Hey, you're not doing this. I feel like having a great culture, which is again, I'm thinking everybody says that, but I'm feeling it and seeing it and hearing it and then noticing it every day. Your culture really is your secret sauce. It's not your product, it's not your service, it's not really even you as a founder anymore, as as the company girls and the market girls. It's really your culture, is the secret source. The fact that as that shed like Anna, just stopped by a while he was in town because he wanted to spend some time with US miniature shows that that's we are easy to work with. You want to do stuff that people and and they want to hang out with us. As Pierce is, people as opposed to a sale from marketing our product provender. Those kind of things don't happen as often as they should and I feel like figuring out how to be continue to harness on culture or regardless of good or bad times, is going to be the most important challenge and opportunity for us. Excellent, excellent. All right, let's change direction here a little bit. I ask all of our guests kind of too standard questions towards the end of each interview. The first is simply, as an revenue executive, that makes you a future customer for other other individuals and some I'm always curious, you know, in this world that we live in today, if somebody doesn't have a relationship with you, if they don't have a referral into you, what do you find to be the most effective way for people to capture your attention, get your attention and convince you that they're worth fifteen minutes of your time? Well, so I give it a really example of how somebody got got my atention is so, as you shared, I do a daily podcast and and there's a lot of different help things that happen. So you find me, it's not a hard thing to do. I put something on Linkedin every day as Fart of our learning...

...that just want to be a transferred bolt, good, bad ugly. It's all there out in the market. So somebody wants to really reach out to me in stuff a court EMA, they would listen to a podcast, which is what Bestie ever did, and I use his example now in my presentations. He listen to my podcast and then he said he did a video recording off it what he liked we didn't like, and then put it on on Linkedin and tach me. But guess why? I'll watch that video. Then I went to this website that I went to his profile. I looked at everything he did and looked at his company and then, you know, I spent fifteen minutes of my time did that. He even asking me to do that. So so I feel like it this human to human connection in this world where it's important to value everyone's time. I think if people do not only some research but also take some action, more proactive way of to show that they have treat care about me and the care about what I put out there, then it's not hard to get attention. Perfect. Okay, last question. We call it our acceleration insight. One thing, if there's one thing you could tell sales and marketing professional service people, one piece of advice that, if they listened, you believe would help them crush their targets. What would it be and why? So one thing that we have done and has torn into transformer company and is starting into our core value, is one team, the ideas that everybody has one number. So what that has done for us chat is marketing does not have anything other than the number that the sales people have. The saleschool don't have anything other than the reading number rights. It's just one number, and what that has done is everybody's write it up when when we have a good quarter, everybody's happy, then we have a bad order. Everybody is not happy, right behind everybody for the same pain point, the same success. Be Getting the gongs the team when we have success not going to close deal. So you can if your organization today has a different marketing metric and goal that are measured on and sales as measure a different goal. Well, you know, that's where. That's another one thing I would challenge and advise and recommend to fix. If you get out a way to have one goal so that they could be like a clear strategy to get there. One score cards so people know how to measure success and or a picture of success look like, and changes the game. Well, you avoid you avoid the silos. That happened like old. You know. Larger companies get to the point where there's all these silence. I spend so much time breaking them down. You solve that problem by not even starting with silence. I love the one team concept and I hope, if anybody's listening, you guys jotted that down. Don't crash your car if you're driving, but that. I think it's an extremely powerful concept and I'm want to thank you very much for sharing that. I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. Sang, I'm it's been absolutely great to talk to man. Was fantastics. Last all right, everybody that does it for this episode, check us out of bed, be REV exactcom share the episode of Friends, family, Co workers. You know the drill. Leave us a review. Until next time. We have value selling associates, which we all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience.

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