The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

How Behavioral Change Influences Selling and Marketing w/ Sean Doyle


Marketers want to know how to create revenue because money is the scorecard of business.

Companies make money when customers buy, but buying requires behavior change. You need people to quit buying from your competitor and start buying from you.

To find out how behavioral change influences sales and marketing, I sat down with Sean Doyle, CEO of Fitzmartin, a company that helps mid-market b2b firms solve sales and marketing problems through strategy and process.

We talked about: 

  • How people change their behavior
  • How to uncover anxiety in your prospects 
  • How to shift organizational culture to focus on customer outcomes

Hear more from Sean in episode 141 on The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

Listen to this episode and more like it by subscribing to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

When people talk to themselves, wecall them crazy. When businesses talk to themselves, we call it marketing.You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniquesand strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let'saccelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome every one of theBB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking abouthow behavioral Change Cannon should influence selling and marketing. It's more about thebehaviors than anything else, and to help us cover it we've got shawn himdoyle, CEO and principle at fitnce Martin Incorporated. Sean. Thank you fortaking time and welcome to the show. Oh thank you for the invitation toshare a few insights. You know, life is good. We're working insome interesting revenue driving engagements right now and I'm going to share every secret Igot. Sweet so we always like to start with just come of an icebreaker, and when we've kind of been using lately, people that know you largelythrough work what is something you're passionate about that they might be surprised by passionateon your personal side, that people in your work life might be surprised tolearn about Chad. That's a tricky curveball and there come on now, youknow, I'd probably say miss our Archer, my junior high art class, iswhere I'd point to light. I'm really interested in light and in MissArcher's class we were introduced to photography and you know, I think one ofthe really most interesting things that's become a lifelong following or passion is not lookingat the objects, for people or things you're taking photographs of, but watchinghow light envelops it, how light reflects off of it, and you know, it's really interesting. I have my daughter who's now twenty six. We'vetalked about light all through her growing up and now she'll just mentioned dad,look at the light on the top of that tree or look at the lightthe way that wraps around that mountain. You know, I think light isjust really interesting. So photography and Light, I think that's how I'd have toanswer that. That's amazing. That's probably one of the best and mostin depth answers I've gotten, which is great. Usually it's something's like,Oh, I'm in the cooking or something that's an extremely interesting I kind oflike cooking to I like eating, so me to I work good. They'reexcellent. So all right. So let's talk about behavioral change and how itapplies to sales and marketing. Always like to start with a little bit ofcontext. So why? Why this topic? Why behavioral change and its influence onselling and mark well, you know. Okay, so after Miss Archer,I guess we skip forward a few years and a friend changed a bookor shared a book with me called changing for good, and this book isa modern day interpretation of some science called...

...the Trans Theoretical Theorem of behavioral change. And as I read it, that's a mouthful, isn't it? That'sa lot. Well, PROCHAGICA, norcross and declemente where the scientists. Soif you really want to get into it, wow, this book changing for goodwas just it was not about marketing, but it laid out this framework theway that all people make change, the way we change behavior, andit's Trans Theoretical, right. It's all models of behavioral change in psychology andand I thought, you know, this is amazing. This, this isand I'd look at things through a marketers eyes, but I don't look throughit with the idea of like silly, touchy feel a soft touch marketing.I look at it with how do I create revenue, and that's what youraudience wants to know, and how do I support sales teams who are drivingrevenue and and how do I get how do I impact businesses? I wantthe rest of my life to be a mission to help business leaders understand howto lever marketing in a way they never have before. And it's kind ofbe rooted in something more than my opinion and this context that you're talking about. The context is behavioral science. It's it's change, but it's codified,it's proven and it's repeatable. And how many marketers do you know can talkabout anything that's repeatable or not? Man Any, you know, I justwe had success or early, probably the first twenty years of my career,I did not have this science and sometimes things worked and sometimes things didn't andand I didn't really know how to repeat it. In this book the sciencejust revolutionize the way that I work and now the way that we work andwhen we help companies with research and insights or revenue operations engagements or even marketingtechnology. We're always going to put it in the context of this behavioral science. We call it cognitive marketing, but it's really at the heart of it, behind it. It's changing for good. It's the Trans Theoretical theorem behavioral change, and so this is where the statement marketing is science, not artscomes from solutely. And so how does it? So let's kind of extrapolatedup a level. So we've got this underlying cognitive marketing approach. How doesthat come to life inside of an organization or inside of a team? Howdo they have to change the way they look at things, engage with thingsor think yeah, great question chat, I think, but I see mostoften is and let's talk about money, because right, money is the scorecard and business, behavioral change, science might be about how to improve yourlife. That we've got to keep the score. And Marketing often has troubledefending itself when that score card pulls out, and I think it's because, andyou, you can argue this, but because you're more of a salesguide than me. Right. So sales gets this last touch attribution benefit.So you can always go and say we closed x dollars. Well, ina sense that's fair because you did touch... last, sales touch to last, but man, it's such a failure on the part of understanding how somebodybuys. Houch and behavioral change is buying, I guess that's really important to sayright. Or buying is behavioral change maybe as another way to say it. So I think what happens the practical context of not having a cognitive understandingof how people buy is you spend too much on what you understand about marketing, and almost everybody understands marketing as creation of awareness, and too little onsales in the right places. So if you don't understand marketing, if youdon't really have a scientific basis from marketing, then you're going to either rely onsales to do the work that marketing should be doing, which just drivesyour customer acquisition through the roof right, or or you're going to be frustratedwith marketing. In fact, I would challenge that that last agency you firedor that last marketing director that you've fired or were glad they left. Thereason why is they didn't have a framework, they didn't have a basis of understandingand they couldn't come talk to you leaders of small businesses, midsize middlemarket businesses, they couldn't talk to use on typically they they only talked ina marketing kind of way. So I benefit from the fact that I actuallyspent the first nine years of my career in marketing, and so did analystrelations and Marcom and running marketing teams and sitting across the table from sales wonderingwhy we could not ever seem to be speaking the same language. And then, shortly after I got my my advanced degree in marketing, decided okay,well, if I can't figure out why they don't understand me, I'm goingto go that side of the table and jumped into sales. And part ofwhat made me so successful was that I understood the entire journey of how marketinginfluenced and and helped set the stage for successful selling. Now a lot oforganizations don't have that. There is no framework for that exchange between the two. But understanding why people buy, why they make the change, that isall is really tapping in almost a customer experience. Are Buying experience element ofit and designing backwards for it like coming into the organization and so the organizationout. And so I'm curious what you've seen. What you've seen when youstarted working with clients or we're putting in place this framework. Where are thebig Ahas that the marketing people, of the sales people all of a suddensee that they didn't see before? Yeah, I think the the biggest journey isthat I'm not a flake. Maybe I am if I'd be willing tosay that on the air. I don't know. The the idea that there'sscience behind the way you think then unfold itself in a beautiful way. Andand we had there's a lot of conversation...

...about sales and marketing alignment today andthere's a lot of conversation about demand generation. So it sales enablement, customer successtechnologies, and there's a lot of conversation about revenue operations and this roleand how does that fit when you used to have an SVP or sales anda CMO? I had that conversation this morning and and trying to figure outhow all these things can become aligned. Well, the way we do this, as we use a the framework as the basis upon which to create thecommon dialog. So when I'm in a marketing role and I say I'm workingon a contemplation to preparation, conversion, or stage two three in our language, then I can say, and you understand, hey, there's three processesaccording to behavioral science, that work. We can get them emotionally aroused,we can get them rash, cause them to rationally reevaluate and we can leveragesocial liberation to help the buyer, the prospect in this point, move forward. So I can say that simply by saying, Chad, I've got atwo three conversion opportunity and I want to talk to you about it. Well, if you've taken the time to have the basis of understanding simply for conversionpoints, you can understand the entire process of somebody going from pre contemplation throughto an extreme change relationship with you. So how much simpler is it ifyou can make your technology, your sales and your marketing, your executive team, you're reporting everything centered around for simple points? And I didn't make upthis pipeline, which is kind of what it sounds like right, pre conversationto action. Yeah, it's a pipeline, sort of, but it's it's reallymore about behavioral change. Doesn't matter how big the funnel is or hownarrow the funnel is, it's a one to one. It's sales. Evenmarketing is pointing more toward this one to one approach to the world, whichis Great. It is changing everything disability, from marketing through digital technologies to bea one to one marketing tools and dislike. Sales is always been oneto one, right. It's one reason it's so effectively. All the intuitionthat a salesperson has marketing. Now, if they understand their roles, canleverage that. And I think you meant go ahead. I don't know.I was because it's interesting. Right, because the the common language that isreally the foundation for it. So some shared type of common language that is, I don't want to say outside of but let's say it's different than whatthey're used to. Some marketing speaks in marketing speak and sales tries to dotheir sales thing. But if you can find a common language that is assimple as that, then there is a way to drive cohesion and consistency thatdidn't exist previously. Oh you know what, one of my favorite moments in myprofessional life is now that I I'll... a client, I'll call aCEO or an stp of sales or whoever had a client, and and they'llsay, hey, we just had the greatest three four conversion success today andI'm like, oh my gosh, they're using the language and I understood exactlywhat you said. That makes me so happy to see that, because it'ssolving problems for them. Chad. I think one thing it might be kindof fun would be to talk about what almost everybody who has a sales pipelineof any sort gets frustrated with, and this is probably one of the greatestmisconceptions. That's when you get somebody who's a contemplator, what do you callit in your sales training, Chad? When it's somebody who just sits onthinking about yeah, indecisive stuff, not not. They're not. They're kickingthe tires. I mean we've got a whole bunch of ways we can nameit in the sales process, but essentially they're not. They're just poking around. They're not there's no urgency for them to do anything. So, yeah, it's part exactly their behavioral science teaches us that somebody can sit in thatstate in the science calls a contemplation. Somebody can sit in the state ofcontemplation for one two years before taking action. So it's interesting because he's contemplators.They understand their problem, they see their problems, cause they understand whatyour solution might be, but they're still not willing to move forward. Soif I'm in marketing, I'm frustrated because I keep providing them information and Ican't seem to get them to move forward. Or if I'm in sales, I'mon my fifth sales call and I can't get anything to move forward.So we call them low quality leads. Well, they're not low quality leadsand as management I need to understand. So just because somebody's sitting in thisstate of contemplation for two years, it doesn't mean they're low quality leads andto get rid of them. It means they're an asset that's just waiting.It's more of the farmer to talk, sales talk. You know, we'vegot to understand this is this, is this somebody that we're going to beable to help later. So let's respect them, let's help them and thenlet's apply science. The science says that we can emotionally get them excited tomove forward. We can rationally get them excited to move forward. We canuse social liberations. To think about Social Liberation as Oh wow, the leaderin our industry space uses Chad and his model, so I should probably checkout the value selling framework. I should. You know, that's that's amazing,that's that's social liberation. So we can provide these studies and help peopleunderstand that these powerful people are using whatever this solution is that you sell.Well, that is a freeing effort. Here's why these people can be lockeddown by fear of failure, just fear of failure, and social liberation andovercomes fear of failure more than anything else. But us, what a sales people? What do we tend to do? More often than anything, complain moreinformation. Complain, yeah, provide...

...more information, bitch that marketing didn'tcreate the right awareness. You know, or try to marketings. Typical responseis to try to create more awareness. But that's not where a contemplator is. A contemplator already knows you, knows their product, knows their problem,knows how to solve it. They're just stuck and you've got to give themaway. And that's where our work has been so successful is we've been ableto teach marketers, teach sales people the tool sets and to understand how thebehavioral science applied. And by doing that it gives you Aha moments of newthings to invest in. Because who thinks about investing in tools to create socialliberation? We all think about creating ads, right, that's not that's not whatyou need. You know, who thinks about the websites function for acontemplator where they're gathering more and more interruption or more and more information, anddoes he asking the question? Does our website have very clear emotional and rationalinformation? Almost every company I've ever worked with will have one or the other, and it's based on who gives the approvals. So if you've got avery emotional CEO, you're going to have an emotional website and you're going toleave as a barrier all your buyers who want to be rational, and viceversa. You know, even even my accountant, if you ask his wife, has an emotional side. So the most rational, the most rational ofpeople can be emotional and that's okay. You know, there's some other interestingscience. God, you got me excited. A lot of stuff there some otherinteresting science. How to U CAL Berkeley. That talks about fear andI do you teach anything around fear and how to use that as a salesperson, not manipulate, but to how to use it. We touch on ita little bit more, more around. It's more about our creating anxiety,like using the fear in a way that creates the anxiety of unintens and unintendedconsequences of lack of action. Now that's perfect. Yeah, so, andwhat you're doing there fits the science. It's amazing. So you know,regardless of people's tendency to procrastinate, they're looking for reassurance. So create thatanxiety sales people, but marketing teams, what are you doing to resolve theanxiety? Help support sales as they help move people through this channel and alot of buyers are looking for this magic moment of absolute certainty. So anxietyis important. Right. You're never going to find absolute certainty, you're nevergoing to get this magic moment. So how do you deal with that?You've got to understand you. I love the idea of creating anxiety intentionally.That sounds so counterintuitive, but especially when most people want to just calm downright most sales most sales reps, when they're having a conversation, they havea tendency to forget that this should be an exchange of equals rather than asubservient type of religion ship. If I'm asked to do something, the questionI would be asked as well, why do I need to do that tohelp you out, like what is what is it going to give you?If you're asking me for something, and...

...if you're asking me for something thatI want to make sure I'm getting something in return right, quick pro quo. But then when they get stuck in what you would call the contemplation,what we would go after it or highlight is, Hey, there is aconsequence of not taking action and and what we need to do is bring thatto the forefront of their thinking. I asked just not through making statements,where we have a firm belief that questions on cover solutions and statements can createconflict. So we want to ask some questions like what happens if what happensif you don't do x, Y and Z? What happens if that problemis not solved? What does that mean your next review? What does thatmean to the organizational objectives, things like that, chattering thinking. So alignedon this. Yeah, and you're thinking is aligned with the with the scienceout of you, cal Berkeley, that says all humans have three types ofpain. Right, they have. They have pain around themselves, personal pain. Why didn't I get that job? Why am I? Is My careernot advancing? Why is my family so frustrated with the amount of money I'mBrent making? I mean there's all these personal pains. There's financial pains.Why am I? I've got to hit this number, I've got to makeproduction more efficient, I've got a lower capital x or the the CFO isgoing to beat on me again, you know. And there's the strategic pain. My boss is challenge me strategically to solve some problem. So if youbreak down those pains and create anxiety around those three pains, the interesting thingis I bet what you're really doing is not creating anxiety. Is You're uncoveringanxiety that already exists on the buyers part. Yeah, it's not a it's andI think it's a really it's not. It's not a nuance. Selling shouldbe helping. If you're creating anxiety as a tool, as a trick. Early in my career I got all the sales training in the world andI hated my life. I hated having to have these lines to say andyou know, if you say this, then I counter with that and Itryal close and then I do this and that, and some of that maybe authentic, but most of what I was doing was in authentic and Iwas trying to manipulate people to buy. Well, well, if you justask questions and let people uncover their pains, they're going to end up being oneof those three pains right. They're going to be strategic, going tobe personal, they're going to be financial. So executives listening to this, lookat your marketing right now, when somebody is in that contemplating stage oreven the next step, when they're preparing to make a decision. Does yourmarketing support messages around all three of those actions? And marketers, look atthe work you're providing to your sales team. So as a buyer moves through thisjourney towards a purchase, sales should be more and more involved and marketers, your job should be less around helping people to begin to contemplate and morearound helping sales be successful. So there may be things that are prospect onlysees of sales gives them. If you...

...know that, the science teaches thatthere's personal, strategic and financial pain, look and audit your own marketing materials. Are you providing answers or way to see those things, the way toto get somebody emotionally excited or rationally excited? Are you showing case studies of SocialLiberation? The best in the industry, the best in class that's doing this, with this solving their problems with your pain? And that's a differentcase study than what we see on most websites and most ads. Absolutely,because it takes a level. It takes a level if we're doing the selfassessment, it takes a level of extrapolation, because if I'm looking at my ownmarketing and my own product, I'm already brought in, I work here, I know myself school and so to be able to look at it throughthe Lens of my potential prospect or buyers, to understand what is valuable to them, what will elicit that financial or personal emotional response, that values tothem, becomes something that I see a lot of organizations struggle with because they'reso caught up in their own trees. They don't see the forest right.All I can see it. Yeah, how cool we are. So whenthis would make me excited, well, yeah, it makes you excited becauseyou work. They're like, you know, you know, you're talking about afeature of function or something. We're not talking about what is exactly valuableor to that other individual in any of those areas. One of my oneof my co workers and a friend for a couple decades now, has thisgreat line and he uses it with a plum and I won't have the stylethat he says. When people talk to themselves, we call them crazy.When businesses talk to themselves, we call it marketing. Yeah, it's it'sa true line to I mean I bet if you look at your website,you're marketing materials right now, you're going to find something where you're talking aboutyourself to yourself. Ohkare absolutely, absolutely cares. Yeah, it doesn't condemned, it doesn't connect because everybody, everybody is centered on the self, likewe've created, and we could get into all of the social political reasons that'sthat's happening, but I just summarize it with the INSTAGRAM ducklip phenomenon. Everbody'staking these damn selfies, but we've gotten everybody to a point, through theAPPS that we use or the services that are out there, that people havethis control. A customer buyer has control and they can see things and getthings as they want them, when they want them, how they want them, and that doesn't translate to the way that we engage with them. Necessarywe talked about a lot of organizations will talk about customer experience and and whatis experience design and what does it mean to market to the buyer at thedifferent journeys, but be now want to take that step out and look atit from the buyers perspective back towards the organization that that's a serious challenge thatI see a lot of companies stumble over. You know, there's also a greatlesson it that can help you. It's a it's a trick to hack, if we want to use today's modern...

...way of saying it, right tohack. You know, when you've got people who are still talking about theproblem there, they're focusing on their current state. That person doesn't need tobe asked to buy. Yet there's a thing that happens in our brains andour model and it's our point of view change, and that point of viewchange is this. You start looking more about solutions, you start looking aboutthe future. So when I hear time, I hear time coming into the conversationof prospects, saying you have some statement about you know, so ifwe do this, then that's going to happen. Wow, that's great.I don't even care what they said. It's just a trigger. It meansthey're looking forward. It's still not time to ask them to buy. It'stime to help them think through that as time to give them the information theyneed to make, to make a small commitment of some sort. And whenthey start talking about solutions instead of their problems, think what that is like. That's when I've quit talking about myself and now I'm asking you questions.I am asking you to talk about yourself. So, Chad, if we workwith you, what's that look like? WHOA, that's so cool. Well, now I get to talk about myself. Right, Jad gets totell me. I've asked You, I given you permission. But what happensto that same person when they're looking back, when they're focusing on problems, whenthey're focusing on the past or their current state, and you say doyou want to work with us? What happens to that buyer? If they'renot, they're not there yet. They're not ready to know about the problem. In fact, I retreat right. Oh my gosh, I got asales guy. I'm out here. It's the way he says. I'm out. Yeah, I think. I think again. I'm going to come backto this lead quality question. Are you? Most of our work in our advisoryservices, come component of our business is with that lower middle market spaceand that's a place where there's enough scale. And the businesses get leads and they'returning them over to sales and sells calls them and they're getting stiff arms. So they say marketing doesn't know what they're doing. They're getting this garbageleads. No, no, you're trying to close somebody who's still trying tofigure out the past and they're trying to figure out what their understand what theirproblem is and how you might matter. So it's actually not a marketing problem, I'd say in challenge it's a sales problem. So if you've got areally terrible lead quality, there's a chance that you're marketing firm or your department'snot doing a good job. There is a chance of that, I'll giveyou that, but probably a greater chances you just don't know what to dowith your leads when you get them. Yeah, you don't know what thebehavioral science is is saying to do. You know this. What do youdo? Did what is your plan? What is and sit down business leaders, sit down with whoever's running your marketing, whoever's running your sales, and askthe question, Hey, when we...

...have a lead, somebody who's contemplatingbuying from us, what's our goal? Just ask that one question. Whatis our goal? And see how how the answers come in. You know, if our goal is to help them move forward into preparing and how tomake a change and how to buy our product service, then you've got agreat team. If they say anything near the goal is to close deals,you know, as to get as many people on the top of the funnel, then you got the wrong guys there. They're driving away revenue, they're drivingaway people who need to buy your product and service and they don't knowwhat they're doing. there. Another possibility and positioning is the singular proposition uponwhich all marketing stands. If you're marketing just broadly. You know, wecould all go out and buy the lists. We can all go out and buytraffic to our website. If it's the wrong traffic and you're getting conversionsand leads, but it has nothing to do with your business. There's noneed to what you sell, then you then you've got a different problem.That's that is a true pure marketing problem. But yeah, what's the goal?I mean. And and you know, the Internet shifted control of Information.Buyers don't have to come to your sales team to get information anymore.No, they don't. In fact they don't. I'm in the process ofbuying an inline or what do they call tankless water heater. I almost boughtone from my gas company. This morning. I did one search and I discoveredfive facts about electric inline tankless water heaters and I am now going tobuy another product. I'M gonna go with electric, and it's the answers whyor just clear to me. So great example of disruption marketing. People aregoing to look for information when they buy anything big, CAPEX personal products.They're going to go to the Internet and that's where you've got to be engaged. In answering questions, helping people contemplate, helping people discover things that matter.Well, I just get you a pure rational reevaluation. Right. Well, yeah, what is what now? Because I'm actually thinking, I'm actuallystarting the process of living in an inline what are you to have kind ofwell, it's about that, let me tell you. But part of partof this, the the focal point on on the solution, on the outcome, on how this is going to impact my customers. Part of that's acultural and sometimes even comp plan generated result. Right. So, if I'm ifI'm going to sales organization, that is totally if all my conversation isaround you know, how many of these do we have? How we goingto get them across the line? What is our number? That drives certainbehaviors and if we switch that to what is? You know, I wastalking to and I'm going to kill me at forgetting it, but she wroteselling with the noble purpose I had her own not too long ago, andthe question that she has people ask is, how will our customers be better ordifferent once they impought from us? That one question changes the whole approach. But it only lives and breathe and...

...gets watered and gets son in anenvironment or culture where we are focused on the customer outcomes rather than our ownoutcomes. It's brilliant. Selling is helping. It is if it's about yourself.If it's about yourself, the wrong things happen and comp design can absolutelydrive the wrong things. YEA, and the same thing for marketing. Youknow I mean I need leads. I need you to create thousand leads amonth. Well, okay, yeah, I can get a thousand leads amonth, but if I'll talk about quality or where they come from or hey, the salon on the corners, I can get them to fill out ofform. So so here's an idea. Here has we're looking at money.Let's set a customer acquisition goal for both departments, not separate goals, onegoal. Let's get marketing and sales sitting beside each other, sting. Howdo we lower our customer acquisition cost? And then we can look at marketingcustomer requisition cost separately from sales customer acquisition cost. We've all been doing that. You trade shows over the last decade have been challenged at the value ofthem. You pull that out. That lowers your sales cost a lot.If you eliminate travel or a majority of travel, then that lowers your salescustomer requisition costs and, and I've heard a lot of sales experts say,we can all close more deals remotely than we ever dreamed possible. Oh yeah, we all should explore that. But what if you give this customer requisitioncost as the metric and then let sales and marketing figure out what that means? You know, let them, let them on equal footing, be responsibleto the CEO. Yeah, that's that right. It's a great perspective.I mean, I love all this behavioral change and anybody who's been any customerwho's it's any time with me here's me talk about all of this stuff aswell. It's absolutely fascinating to me how we have a tendency to focus onvanity metrics, as I'm still in that phrase from Jason Rechael, but vanany metrics instead of the metrics that make a difference and the ones and reallymove us across the finish line. I could, I could sit here andtalk about this for hours, but out of respect for time, I dowant to keep his moving. So we ask all of our guests two questionsto standard questions towards the end of reaching first is simply you know as aCEO and founder, that makes you a prospect for a lot of people outthere and I'm always curious to know when somebody doesn't have that trusted referral intoyou that you know, some of you trust bringing them to your doors andhey, this is somebody worth talking to. What is it that works best foryou for somebody to capture your attention and earn the right time on yourcalendar? HMM, that's interesting. I'd probably start by saying stop sending methese BS emails. Don't pretend like your friends with me, right, don'tyou know? Per My last email or per our conversation, there's no conversationgoing on. Why are you lying to... I immediately delete any andthat is sad. I don't know who's teaching, Chad. It's not theguy teaching that I'm coming after. You know, and you should if Iwasn't one teaching that you definitely I'd hand you the baseball bat if you're thatwas I mean, that's horrible form. Oh it's lying. Hey, yeah, I just did a with an SPP of sales. Got Even lead nightand it's on. You'll find it on our website if you just google fitzmartincoma terrible sales emails. We had a blast. We did probably eight differenttypes of terrible sales emails. So much fun. So yeah, so don'tstart there. But I think you've got to demonstrate you know what you're doingand, most importantly, you know me. So, for example, listen,listen to this. You're trying to sell to Shaun doyl, marketing andmarketing sales advisor to lower middle market companies. If I get an email it says, hey, I want to Joe Smith, I want to introduce mycompany. We Blah Blah, blah, Blah Blah. I'm not going toread that, but if you send me this email or leave me this voicemail, Hey, I'm Sally Jones. We help agencies like you move froma forty percent billaboll efficiency ratio to sixty to seventy percent bill boll efficiation,billable efficiency ratio, through a context of consulting and sells assistance, and typicallywe achieve those results in thirteen months. Oh, you actually understand I careabout billable efficiency ratio right now. I've been in this business for thirty years. I don't think I've ever had anybody approached me by starting with a metricthat they know my space and my business enough that they can tell me whatthat metric is. I don't have to teach them right. So you youwant to get my attention, and if I want to get your attention,I need to know what Chad Sanderson thinks about or what Joe Prospect thinks about, and I should know if my positioning is not so broad that I serveeverybody. Don't. Don't tell me you serve everybody. That's also a lie. That's actually sounds a little bit desperate, but I mean tell me a number, just give me an indication that you know my space. Then I'mgoing to listen to you. I'll give you time. I love it allright. Last question. We'd call it our acceleration in sight. If there'sone thing you could tell sales and marketing professionals, just one piece of advice. I don't everything we've talked about and everything you know experienced, just onepiece of advice that you believe would help them if their targets or exceed them. What would it be and why? I'm assuming you mean besides higher either. Chad Sanderson to help you. Is that right? Yes, not whereyou're yeah, we want to go a little less obvious. Okay, okay, okay, I just went way past stage two, didn't. I nolonger contemplating this at all. Oh yeah, I think that the acceleration insight I'doffer is make sure there's a point of view. I don't care ifyou use the cognitive marketing model. If... want it, I'll offer youin a second a way to get it, download it, look at it,consider it, go on to Amazon and by changing for good. Figureit out yourself, hire somebody that's got a framework, like a Chad Sanderson. Just choose a point of view and then teach everybody from marketing sales andsupport it with technology and make sure you have one language. That's the fastestway to revenue. It's not more advertising. In fact, you might even cutcosts. You just find one point of view and get everybody to thetable. I love it and I could not agree more. So we shall. I'm where do you want us to send people if they want more informationon you or the concepts we've talked about? What's going to be most beneficial foryou. Where can we send them? Well, first I should tell themwhat you offered to do. Chad's offered to purchase a couple books foryou. So the first few folks that come to fitzmartincom free help. Fitzmartincomfree help, you will find a place you can plug in your email forfree copy of shift. Shift as a book that was published last year byRock Bench publishing, I of Nashville, and it's nineteen ideas for executives incharge of marketing but not trained for the task. On that same page youcan also I'm opening. I'm too old, I don't have any secrets off toanything. There's I've got a discovery video series. You can watch videosto understand this consumer decision journey and this science a little bit better, andthere's worksheets and tools there. It's all free. Have Fun, enjoy itand I promise I'm not going to rail on you by and make you gooh, I never said of given that guy my email. In fact,I think most of it's I don't think it's even gated. Just just comeand enjoy it. Except the book is gated. I got to know youraddress if I'm going to mail you a book and thank you for doing thatchat. That was nice of you. Yeah, no problem, son.I can't thank you enough for your time. Has Been an absolute pleasure avenue onthe show. Oh Man, your podcast is changing lives and helping peopleand it's fun to be part of it. Thank you all right, everybody thatdoes it. For this episode, you know, the drill be tobe Rev exactcom sure with your friends, family co workers. Put your kidsin front of it if you're tired of chasing around the house. Until nexttime we evalue something associates, we show all nothing but the greatest success.You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you nevermiss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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