The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 11 months ago

How Behavioral Change Influences Selling and Marketing w/ Sean Doyle

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Marketers want to know how to create revenue because money is the scorecard of business.

Companies make money when customers buy, but buying requires behavior change. You need people to quit buying from your competitor and start buying from you.

To find out how behavioral change influences sales and marketing, I sat down with Sean Doyle, CEO of Fitzmartin, a company that helps mid-market b2b firms solve sales and marketing problems through strategy and process.

We talked about: 

  • How people change their behavior
  • How to uncover anxiety in your prospects 
  • How to shift organizational culture to focus on customer outcomes

Hear more from Sean in episode 141 on The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

Listen to this episode and more like it by subscribing to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

When people talk to themselves, we callthem crazy. When businesses talk to themselves, we call it marketing you're. Listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated T, helpin executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies wore tools and resources, you've come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three two one: Welcome e youwone to the b Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host ChadSanderson today we're talking about how behaviorwill change cannon shouldinfluence, selling and marketing it's more about the behaviors than anythingelse and to help us cover it. We've got shanmdoyl CEO and principal at Fince,Martin Incorporated Shon. Thank you fou're taking time and welcome to theshow. Oh thank you for the invitation to share a few insights. You know lifeis good. We're working, insome, interesting revenue, drivingengagements right now and I'm going to share every secret. I got sweet, so we always like to start withjust kimed of an ice breaker and when we've kind of been using lately peoplethat know you largely through work. What is something you're passionateabout that? They might be surprised by passionate, an your personal side thatpeople in your worklife might be surprised to learn about Tad. That's atricky curve. Ball there come on now, you know, I'd probably say Miss Archer. My juniorhigh art class is where I'd point to light, I'm really interested in lightand N missarchers class. We were inroduced to photography andYouven. I think one of the the really most interesting things that's become.A lifelong following or passion is not looking at the objects for people orthings you're taking photographs of, but watching how light envelops it. Howlight reflects off of it? And you know it's really interesting- my daughterhis now twenty six we've talked about light all through her growing up andnow she'll just mention dad look at the light on the top of that tree or lookat the light. The way that raps around that mountain you know, I think lightis just really interesting, so photography and Light. I think that'show I'd have to answer that. That's amazing, that's probably one of thebest and most in death, fancwers. I've gotten, which is great an usually it'ssomeone's like o I'm into cooking or something that's an extremelyinteresting. I kind of like cooking too I like eating so eai a goid there,excellent. So all right. So let's talk about behavioral change and how itapplies to sales. An marketing always like to start with a little bit ofcontext. So why why this topic? Why behaviorill change and its influence onselling a marke? Well, you know, okay, so after Miss Archer, I guess weskipped forward a few years, an a friend changed a book or shared a bookwith me called changing for good, and...

...this book is a Modern Day. Interpretation of somescience called the transtheretical Theorem of behavioral change and, as Iread it, that's a mouthful. Isn't it that's t'sa lot well, Prochachka, norcross andDeclemente with a scientist, so if you really want to get into it wow thisbook, changing for good was just it was not about marketing, but it laid outthis framework of the way that all people make change the way we changebehavior and it's transtheretical right. It's all models of behavioral change,Ind, psychologty and- and I thought you know this is amazing- this. This is andI'd look at things through a marketer's eyes, but I don't look through it withthe idea of like silly touchy, Feeli soft touch marketing. I look at it with.How do I create revenue and that's what your audience wants to know and how doI support sales teams who are driving revenue and and how do I, how do Iimpact businesses? I want the rest of my life to be a mission to helpbusiness laders understand how to lever marketing in the way they never havebefore, and it's kind to be rooted in something more than my opinion and thiscontext that you're talking about the context is behavioral science. It'sit's changed, but it's cotified. It's proven and it's repeatable and how manymarketers do you know can talk about anything, that's repeatable or not many.You know I just we had success early, probably the first twent years of mycareer. I did not have this science and sometimes things worked, and sometimesthings didn't and- and I didn't really know how to repeat it- An this book,this science just revolutionized the way that I work and now the way that wework and when we help companies with research and insights or revenue,operations, engagements or even marketing technology were always goingto put it in the context of this behavioral science. We call itcognitive marketing, but it's really at the heart of it behind it. It'schanging for good the trends, the redical Theorem of behavioral change,and so this is where the statement marketing is science, not arts comesfrom so litly, and so how does it so? Let's kind of extrapolate it up a level.So we've got this underlying cognitive marketing approach. How does that cometo life inside of an organization or inside of a team? How do they have tochange the way they look at things, engage with things or think yeah greatquestion Jhat, I think Wat, but I see most oftenis, and let's talk about money because right money is the score. Cardanbusiness behavioral change. Science. Might be about OWTO impreve, your life,that we've got to keep the score and marketing often has trouble defendingitself when that score card pulls out, and I think it's because- and you canargue this, but because you're more of a sales guy than me right, so salesgets this last touch attribution benefit, so you can always go and saywe closed x dollars. Well, in a sense,...

...that's fair, because you did touch atlast sales touchd to last, but man. It's such a failure on the part of understandinghow somebody buys Howch and behavioral change is buying. I guess that's reallyimportant to say right or buying is behavior. Wil Change, maybe is anotherway to say it. So I think what happens the practical context of not having acognitive understanding of how people buy? Is You spend too much on what youunderstand about marketing and almost everybody understands marketing ascreation of awareness and too little on sales in the right places? So if youdon't understand marketing, if you don't really have a scientific basisfor marketing, then you're going to either rely on sales to do the workthat marketing should be doing, which just drives your customer acquisitionthrough the roof right or or you're, going to be frustrated with marketing.In fact, I would challenge that that last agency you fired or that lastmarketing director that you fired or were glad they left the reason why is they didn't have aframework? They didn't have a basis of understanding and they couldn't cometalk to you, leaders of small businesses, midsize middle marketbusinesses. They couldn't talk to Yousign. Typically, they only talked ina a marketing kind of way. So I benefit from the fact that Iactually spent the first nine years of my career in marketing and so didanalyst relations and Markom and running marketing teams and sittingacross the table from sales wondering why we could not ever seem to bespeaking the same language and then, shortly after I gout my my advanceddagree in marketing decided, okay. Well, if I can't figure out why they don'tunderstand me, I'm going to go to that side of the table and jumped into salesand part of what made me so successful was that I understood the entire journey of how marketinginfluenced and helped set the stage for successful selling. Now a lot oforganizations don't have that there is no framework for that exchange betweenthe two but understanding why people buy why they make the change that isall is really tapping in almost a customer experience, our buyingexperience, element of it and designing backwards for it like coming into theorganization, An said, the organization out, and so I'm curious what you'veseen what you've seen when you started working with clientsor we're putting inplace this framework. What are the big Ahas that the marketing people, thesales people all of a sudden, see that they didn't see before yeah? I think t e the biggest journeyis that I'm not a flake? Maybe I am if I'd be willing to saythat on the air, I don't know the the idea that there is sciencebehind the way. You think, then unfold itself in a beautiful way, and we hadthere's a lot of conversation about...

...sales and marketing alignment today andthere's a lot of conversation about demand, generation, S, sales,enablement, customer success, technologies and there's a lot ofconversation about revenue operations and this role and how does that fitwhen you used to have an SPP or sales Andacao? I had that conversation thismorning and then trying to figure out how all these things can become aligned.Well, the way we do this is we use the framewor because the basis upon whichto create the common dialogue. So when I'm in a marketing role- and I say I'mworking on a contemplation to preparation, conversion or stage tothree in our language- then I can say- and you understand- hey- there's threeprocesses. According to behavrar science that work, we can get thememotionally aroused we can get the rash cause them to rationally reevaluate andwe can leverage social liberation to help the buyer. The prospect an thispoint move forward, so I can say that simply by Saing Chat, I've got a twothree conversion opportunity and I want to talk to you about it. Well, ifyou've taken the time to have the basis of understanding, simply fourconversion points, you can understand the entire process of somebody goingfrom precontemplation through to an exchange relationship with you. So howmuch simpler? Is it if you can make your technology, your Selles and yourmarketing? Your executive team, you're reporting everything centered aroundfour simple points, and I didn't make up this pipeline, which is kind of whatit sounds like right. Pre Conversation to action, yeah, it's a pipeline sortof, but it's it's really more about. Behavioral Change, doesn't matter howbig the funnel is or how narrow the funnel is. It's a Oneto one, it sales,even marketing, is pointing more toward this one to one approach to the world,which is Great. It is changing everything: Disability for marketingthrough digital technologies to be a one to one marketing tools, a dislikesales, as always been one to one right. It's one reason it's so effectively.All the intuition that a Sallesperson has marketing now, if they understandtheir roles, can leverage that, and I think you ma go ahead. Goddonknow I was ECAUSE, it's it's interesting right, because the commonlanguage that is really the foundation for it, so some shared type of common language. That is, I don't wantto say outside of, but let's say it's different than what they're usedto bcause marketing speech in marketing. Speak and sales tries to do their salesthing. But if you can find a a common language that is as simple as that,then there is a way to drive cohesion and consistency that didn't existpreviously. You know what one of my favorite moments in my professionallife is now that...

...call a Clini call a co or an skpofsales or whoever had a client and and they'll say hey. We just had thegreatest three four conversion success today and I'm like Oh, my gosh they'reusing the language, and I understood exactly what you said that makes me sohappy to see that, because it's solving problems for them Tind, I think onething it might be kind of fun- would be to talk about what almost everybody whohas a sales pipe on of any sort gets frustrated with, and this is probablyone of the greatest misconceptions. That's when you get somebody who's acontemtplater. What do you call it in your sales, training, Chad when oSomebod, who just sits on thinking about I yeah indecisive, this stuck notnot they're, not they're, kicking the tires. I mean. We've got a whole bunchof ways. We can name it in a sales process, but essentially they're, notthey're, just poking around they're, not there's no urgency for them to doanything so yeah. It's part exactly ther and behavioral science teaches usthat somebody can sit in that state en the science calls it contemplation.Somebody can sit in tha state of contemplation for one two years beforetaking action. So it's interesting because these contemplators theyunderstand their problem. They see their problems, cause they understandwhat your solution might be, but they're still not willing to moveforward. So if I'm in marketing I'm frustrated because I keep providingthem information and I can't seem to get them to move forward or if I'm insales, I'm on my fifth sales call- and I can't get anything to move forward,so we call them low quality leads well, theyre, not low quality leads and hismanagement. I need to understand some just because somebody's sitting in thisstate of contemplation for two years it doesn't mean their blow Qality ladesand to get rid of them. It means they're an asset. That's just waiting.It's more! The farmer to talk sales, Talk Yeah! You know we've got tounderstand this is this is tus somebody that we're going to be able to helplater. So, let's respect them. Let's help them, and then let's apply science.The science says that we can emotionally get them excited to moveforward. We can rationally get them excited to move forward. We can usesocial liberations, I think, about Social Liberation as Oh wow, the leaderin our industry, space uses, chat and his model, so I should probably checkout the value selling framework. I should e. that's that's amazing. That'sthat's social liberation, so we can provide these studies and help. Peopleunderstand that these powerful people are using whatever this solution isthat you sell well that that is a freeing effort. Here's why these peoplecan be locked down by fear of failure, just fear of failure and socialliberation and overcomes fewier of failure more than anything else, butguess what as Salls people? What do we tend to do more often than anything...

...complain or Youfommoso Complan yeahprovide more information bitch. That marketing didn't create the rightawareness, you know or Trotat. MARKETINGS typocal response is to tryto create more awareness, but that's not where a contem plator is a contemplator already knows you knows their product knows their problem knows howto solve it. They're just stuck and you've got to give them away, andthat's where our work has been so successful. Is We've been able to teachmarketers teach sales people the tool sets and to understand how thebehavioal science applied, and by doing that, it gives you Aha moments of newthings to invest in, because who thinks about investing in tools to createsocial liberation? We all think about creating ads right. That's not that'snot what you need. You know who thinks about the website function for acontemplator, Whith, they're, gathering more and more interruption, more andmore information, and does he asking the question? Does our website havevery clear, emotional and rational information? Almost every company I'veever worked with will have one or the other, and it's based on who gives theapprovals. So if you've got a very emotional CEO, you're Goin to have anemotional website and you're going to leave as a barrier all your buyers whowant to be rational and vice verst. You know, even even my accountant, if youask his wife, has an emotional side, so the most rational, the most rational ofpeople, can be emotional and that's, okay. You know, there's some otherinteresting, Sciene Gosh, you got me excited ilove stuff. There's some otherinteresting science ad of ucel Berkeley that talks about fear, and I do U teachanything around fear and how to use that as a salesperson not manipulate,but to how to use it. We touch on it a little bit more more around it's moreabout ucreating anxiety like you, using the fear in a way that creats theanxiety of UNINTENSI unittended consequences of lack of action. Now that's perfect yeah so, and what you'redoing there fits the science? It's amazing. So you know, regardless ofpeople's tendency, to procrastinate they're looking for reassurance socreate that anxiety, sales, people, but marketing teams. What are you doing toresolve the anxiety help? Support cells as they help move people through thischannel and and a lot of buyers are looking for this magic moment ofabsolute certainty. So anxiety is important right, you're, never going tofind absolute certainty, you're, never going to get this magic moment. So howdo you deal with that? You've got TA understond. I love the idea of creatinganxiety intentionally that sounds so counter intuitive, but especially whenmost people want to just call them down right. Most Sills most sales raps whenthey're having a conversation, they have a tendency to forget that thisshould be an exchange of equals, rather than a subservient type of relationship.If I'm asked to do something, the question I would be asking is well: Whydo I need to do that to help you out like what is what is it going to giveyou if you're asking me for something...

...and if you're asking me for somethingthat I want to make sure I'm getting something in return right, quit broequote, but then, when they get stuck in what you would call a contemplation,what we would go after a wor highlight is hey. There is a consequence of nottaking action and and what e Cu do is bring that to the forefront of theirthinking. Like ask just not, though, making statements where we have a firmbelief that questions uncover solutions and statements can create conflict. Sowe want to ask some questions like what happens. If what happens, if you don'tdo Xy Andz, what happens if that problemis not solve? What does thatmean in your next review? What does that mean to the organizationalobjectives? Things like that chattering, Thanin, so aligned on thisyeah and yyou're thinking is aligned with the with the science at of uklBerkeley. That says all humans have three types of pain right: they have.They have pain around themselves, personal pain. Why didn't I get thatjob? Why? Why am? Why is my career not advancing? Why is my family so frustrated with theamount of money I'm Brent? Making I mean, there's all these personal pains,there's financial pains. Why am I I've got to hit this number? I've got TA,make production more efficient, I've got a lower capital x or the the CFO isgoing to beat on me again. You know and there's this strategic pain. My bosshas challenged me strategically to solve some problem. So if you breakdown those pains and create anxiety around those three pains, theinteresting thing is: I bet what you're really doing is not creating anxiety.Is Your uncovering anxiety that already exists on the virus? Part Yeah? It'snot a it's, and I think it's a really it's not it's. Not a nuance sellingshould be helping if you're, creating anxoety as a tool as a trick, but earlyin my career er, I got all the sales training in the world and I hated mylife. I hated having to have these lines to say, and you know, if you saythis, then I counter with that and I trial closhe and then I do this andthat and some of had may be authentic. But most of what I was doing wasinauthentic and I was trying to manipulate people to buy well wowl. Ifyou just ask questions and I'let people uncover their pains, they're going toend up being one of those three pains right, they're going to be strategic,manbe personal they're, going to be financial, so executives. Listening tothis look at your marketing right now, when somebody is in that contemplatingstage or even the next step, when they're preparing to make a decision.Does your marketing support messages around all three of those actions andmarketers? Look at the work you're providing to your sales team. So as abuyer, moves through this journey towards a purchase, sales should bemore and more involved and marketers. Your job should be less around helpingpeople to begin to contemplate and more around helping sales be successful. Sothere may be things that a prospect O...

...honly sees if sales gives them. If youknow that the science teaches that there's personal, strategic andfinancial pain, look and audit your own marketing materials, are you providinganswers or way to see those things Tho way to get somebody emotionally excitedor orrationally excited? Are you showing case studies of SocialLiberation, the best in the industry the best in class? That's doing thiswith this solving their problems with your pain and that's a different casestudy than what we see on most websites and most ads absolutely because ittakes a level it takes a Levelli for doing the selfassessment. It takes alevel of extrapolation because, if I'm looking at my own marketing and my ownproduct, I'm already abought in I work here, I know myself cool and so to beable to look at it through the Lens of my potential prospect or buyers tounderstand what is valuable to them. What will elicit that financial orpersonal emotional response that values to them becomes something that I see alot of organizations struggle with, because they're so caught up in theirown trees? They don't see the forest right. All I can see is yeah how coolwe are. So when this would make me excited well, yeah makes your excitedbecause you work there, like you know, you know, you're talking about afeature function or something we're not talking about what is exactly valuableor to that other individual in any of those areas. One of my one of my coworkers and afriend for couple decades now has this great line and he uses it witha plum, and I won't have the style that he says when people talk to themselves,we call them crazy. When businesses talk to themselves, we call itmarketing EAHSIT's a true line too. I mean I betif you look at your website, you're marketing materials right now, you'regoing to find something where you're talking about yourself to yours, stuff,okare, absolutely absolutely airs yeah, it doesn't condon, it doesn't connectbecause everybody, everybody is centered on the self like we've createdand we could get into all of the social political reasons that that's happening.But I just summarize it with the INSTAGRAM ducklip phenomenoneverybody's, taking these damn selfies. But we've gotten everybody to a pointthrough the APPS that we use or the services that are out there, thatpeople have this control ha customer buyer has control and they can seethings and get things as they want them when they want them, how they want themand that doesn't translate to the way that we engage with them. Necessarilywe talk about a lot of organizion all talk about customer experience and andwhat is experience design and what does it mean to market to the buyer at thedifferent journeys but being able to take that step out and look at it fromthe buyers perspective back towards the organization that that's a seriouschallenge that I see a lot of companies stumble over. You know, there's also a great lesson tthat can help you. It's a it's a...

...trick to hack. If we want to usetoday's modern way of saying it right to hack. You know when you've gotpeople who are still talking about the problem, tethey're focusing on theircurrent state. That person doesn't need to be asked to buy yet there's a thingthat happens in our brains, ind our model and it's our point of view,change and that point of view change. Is this Yo start looking more aboutsolutions, you start looking about the future. So when I hear tod, I hear timecoming into the conversation, a prospect saying you've some statementabout you. So if we do this, then that's going to happen. Oh Wow, that'sgreat! I don't even care what they said. It's just a trigger. I means they'relooking forward it', still not time to ask them to buy it's time to help themthink through that as time to give them the information they they need to maketo make a small commitment of some sort and when they start talking aboutsolutions instead of their problems, think what that is like that's! WhenI've quit talking about myself and now, I'm asking you questions. I am askingyou to talk about yourself, so chat. If we work with you, what's that look likeWhoa, that's so cool! Now I get to talk about myself. Right. Jad gets to tellme that I've asked you, given you permission, but what happens to thatsame person when they're, looking back when they're, focusing on problems whenthey're focusing on the past for their current state- and you say, do you want to work with us? Whathappens to that? Buyer they're not they're, not there, yet they're, notready, they're, no learn about the problem, an in fact I retreat right. Ohmy gosh, I got a sales guy. I'm out yeah here it's way to Sasy, I'm outyeah. I think I think again come back to this lead quality question. Most ofour work in an ourradvisory service is component of our business is with thatlower midle market space and that's a place where there's enough scale andthe businesses get leads and they're turning them over to sails and sells,calls them and their getting stiff arms. So they say marketing doesn't know whatthey're doing aget in this garbage leads. You kno no you're, trying toclose somebody who's still trying to figure out the past and they're tryingto figure out what their understand, what their problem is and how you mightmatter. So it's actually not a marketing problem. I'd say in challenge:It's a sales problem, so if you've got a really terrible lead quality, there'sa chance that you're marketing firm or your departments not doing a good job.There is a chance of that I'll. Give you that, but probably a greater chances. You just don't know what to do with your leads. When you get them yeah, youdon't know what the behavial sciences is as saying to do. You know this? Whatdo you do? What is your plan? What is and sit down business leaders sit downwith whoever's, running your marketing. Whoever is running your sails and askthe question hey when we have a lead...

...somebody whois contemplating buyingfrom us. What's our goal is: Ask that one question: What is our goal and seehow how the anters come in you know if our goal is to help them move forwardinto preparing and how to make a change and how to buy our product service,then you've got a great team if they say anything near the goal is to closedeals. You know to get as many people on the top of the funnel. Then you gotthe wrong guys: Ryouro they're, driving away revenue, theyare driving awaypeople who need to buy your product and service, and they don't know whatthey're doing there. Another possibility and positioning is thesingular proposition upon which all marketing stands if you're marketing,just broadly you know, we could all go out and buy lists. We can all go outand buy traffic to our website if it's the wrong traffic and you're gettingconversions and leads, but it has nothing to do with your business.There's no need to what you sell. Then you then you've got a different problem.That's that is a true pure marketing problem, but yeah. What's the goal Imean and, and you know, the Internet shifted control of Information. Buyers,don't have to come to your sales team to get information anymore. No, I don'tin fact they don't I'm in the process of buying an inlineor what do they call tankleus water eater. I almost bought one from my gascompany this morning. I did one search and I discovered five facts aboutelectric inline tankless water heaters hand. I am now going to buy anotherproduct, I'm going to go with electric and it's the answers. Wy R, just clearto me so great example of disruption. Marketing people are going to look forinformation when they buy anything. Big CAPEX personal products, they're goingto go to the Internet and that's where you've got to be engaged in answeringQuestionns, helping people contemplate Hep, helping people discover thingsthat matter well. That jus gives you a pure, rational, reevaluation right,well, yeah what it's? What now, because I'm actually thinking I'm actuallystarting the process of looking at at inline wha? Are you toim kind of worrsabout that? Let me tell you, but part of part of this t the focalpoint on on the solution on the outcome on how this is going to impact mycustomers, part of that's a cultural and sometimes even Compplan, generated,result right. So if, if I'm Goin to sales organization, that is totally ifall my conversation is around, you know how many leages do we have? How are wegoing to get them across the line? What is our number that drives certainbehaviors and if we switch that to what is you know I was talking to and I'mgonna kill me. I forget her name, but she wrote selling with a noble purpose.I had her own not too long ago, and the question that she has people ask is:How will our customers be better or different once they have bought from usthat one Qtin changes the whole...

...approach, but it only lives andbreathes and gets watered and get sun in an environment or culture where weare focused on the customer outcomes rather than our own outcomes. That'sbrilliant selling is helping. Yes, F, it's about yourself. If it's aboutyourself, the wrong things happen and comp design can absolutely drive thewrong things. Yeah and the same thing for marketing. You know I mean I needleads. I need you to create thousand leages a month. Well, okay yeah. Icangi a thousand lades a month, but I talk about quality or where they comefrom or hey the son on the corners a I can get them to fill out a form. Sohere's an idea here as we're looking at money. Let's set a customer acquisitiongoal for both departments, not separate goals, one goal: Let's get marketingand sals sitting beside each other spaying. How do we lower our customeracquisition cost? And then we can look at marketing Customr, requisition costseparately from sales customer equisitionon cost. We've all been doingthat o trade shows over the last decade havebeen challenged at the value of them. You pull that out. That lowers yoursales cost a lot. If you eliminate Trobel or a majority of travel, thenthat lowers your sales customer quisition cost and I've heard a lot ofsales experts say we can all close more deals remotely than we ever dreamedpossible. Oh yeah, we all should explore that. But what, if you givethis customer acquisition cost as the metric and then let sales and marketingfigure out what that means? You know let them let them unequal footing beresponsible to the CO yeahs Gat Rea, it's a great perspective. I mean I loveall this behavioal change and anybody who's been any customers spending timewith me. heares me talk about all of this stuff as well. It's absolutelyfascinating to me how we have a tendency to focus on vanity metrics, I'm still in that phrase from JasonRicel, but baniny metrics instead of the metrics that make a difference andthe ones an really move us across the finish line. I could I could sit hereand talk about this for hours, but out of respect for Timean, I do want tokeep hus moving, so we ask all of our guests two questions to standardquestion towards the animation. First is simply, you know as a ceon founder,that makes you a prospect for a lot of people out there and I'm always curiousto know when somebody doesn't have that trustedreferral into you that you know someofy, you trust, bringing them to your doorand say Han. This is somebody worth talking to what is it that works bestfor you for somebody to capture your attention and earn the right time onyour calendar Hm. That's interesting! I'd probablystart by saying: stop sending me these BS emails. Don't pretend like yourfriends with me. Don't you know purb my last email or per our conversation?There's no conversation going on. Why...

...are you lying to me? I immediatelydelete, and that is sad. I don't know who's teaching Chad, it's not the guyteaching that I'm coming after you and you should. If I was the one teachinthat you definitely I'd hand you the Baseball Bat, if you're, that was, Imean, that's horrible form. Oh, it's lying, Hey yeah! I just did a with atSPP of sales go name elead night. It's on you'll find it on our website.If you just Google Fitz martincom terrible sales emails, we had a blast.We did probably eight different types of terrible sales, email, so much fun,so yeah so don't start there, but I think you've got to demonstrate. Youknow what you're doing and most importantly you know me so, for example,listen! Listen to this you're trying to sell the SHANDOYL marketing andmarketing sales advisor to lower mital market companies. If I get an email itsays hey, I want to I'm Joe Smith. I want to introduce my company we by BlahBlah Blah Blah, I'm not going to read that. But if you send me this email orleave me this voice, mail, Hey I'm Sally Johns. We help agencies like you,move from a forty percent billof AL efficiency ratio tosixty to seventypercent, bilble FFICIA billible efficiency ratio through a context of consulting and sales assistance, andtypically we achieve those results in thirteen months. Oh you actually understand. I careabout billible efficiency ratio Righti've been in this business forthirty years. I don't think I've ever had anybody approach me by startingwith a metric that they know my space band, my business enough, that they cantell me what that metric is. I don't have to teach them right, so you wantto get my attention and if I want to get your attention, I need to know whatChad Sanderson thinks about or what Joe Prospect thinks about, and I shouldknow if my positioning is not so broad that I serve everybody. Don't don'ttell me you serve everybody. That's also a lie. That's actually sounds alittle bit desperate, but I mean tell me a number just give me an indicationthat you know my space, then I'm going to listen to you I'll, give you time. Ilove it all right. Last question: We call it our acceleration insight. Ifthere's one thing, you could tell sales and marketing professionals just onepiece of vice out of everything. We've talked about and everything you knowever experience, just one piece of advice that you believe would help themhit their targets or exceed them. What would it be and why I'm assuming youmean besides hire either Chad Sanderson? He is that right, yeah 's, not whatyou're yeah we want to go a little less obviousy, okay, okay, okay! I just wentway past stage to didn't. I no longer contemplating this at all. Oh Yeah. Ithink that the acceleration inside I'd offer ismake sure, there's a point of view. I...

...don't care if you use the cognitivemarketing model, if you want it a'll of for you in a second a way to get itdownload it look at it. Consider it going to Amazon and by changing forgood figure it out yourself hire somebody Tha's got a framework like aChad. Sanderson just choose a point of view and then teach everybody frommarketing salls and support it with technology ad mixtury of one language,that's the fastest way to revenue. It's not more advertising. In fact you mighteven cut costs. You just find one point of view and get everybody to the table.I love it then I could not agree more so San. Where do you want us to sendpeople if they want more information on you or the concepts? We've talked about?Well, what's going to be most beneficial for you? Where can we sendthem? Well? First, I should tell them what you offered to do chads offered topurchase a couple books for you, so the first few folks that come tofitzmartincom Free Dash, help fitzmartincom free dashhealth. You willfind a place you can plug in your email, for a free copy of shift shift is abook that was published last year by Rock Bench, publishing out of Nashvilleand it's nineteen ideas for executives in charge of marketing, but not trainedfor the task. On that same page, you can also opening I'm too old. I don'thave any secrets I'll te anything there's. I've got a discovery, videoseries, you can watch videos to understand this consumer decisionjourney and this science a little bit better and there's worksheets and toolsthere. It's all free have fun enjoy it, and I promise I'm not going to rail onyou by him. Make you go? Oh, I never should have given that guy, my email,in fact, I think most of it's don't think it's even gated just just comeand enjoy it except the the book is gated. I got to know your address. IfI'm going to mail, you a book and thank you for doing that, shot. That was nice.If you no problem San, I can't think you enough, for your times, been anabsolute pleasure havinue on the show. Oh Man, your podcast is changing livesand healthy people and it's fun to be part of it. Thank you all right,everybody that does it for this episode. You know the drill be to be revezactcomShir with your friends. Family Coworkers put your kids in front of itif you're, tired of chasing erround the house until next time we ave, va solingassociates wich, show nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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