The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 2 months ago

The 3 Pillars of Effective Leadership with Vanessa Judelman


“Knowing yourself”

“Managing your team”

“Leading your business”

These are the three pillars of effective leadership to successfully coach, develop, and provide optimal feedback to your workforce.

The moment you’re into management, your role within a company changes. Your tasks will revolve around time and people management, and you must ensure everything is executed strategically.

A true leader should be able to answer this question easily:

What am I getting paid to do?

To share more about the importance of effective leadership and how you can use it to prioritize, educate, and motivate your workforce, Vanessa Judelman, author, leadership coach, and president of Mosaic People Development, a leadership coaching company that develops leaders who inspire great results, will join us. Vanessa covers the three pillars of effective leadership required to successfully motivate and delegate the workforce.

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why is effective leadership so important?
  • The 3 pillars of effective leadership
  • What is a leader paid for to do?

Now that you know the importance of effective leadership… it’s time to learn how to lead your team or company to success. Check out the full list of episodes here: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the B two B revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two one. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the B two B revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Carlos Snow Jay, and I'm joined by my co host, Lisa's share. Say Hi Lisa. Hi Folks, excited to have you here today. Today our topic is the three pillars of effective leadership, knowing yourself, managing your team and leading Your Business, and here to help us out with this topic today is Vanessa Jutelman, author, leadership coach and President of her own company, Mosaic People Development, as well as a friend of mine. Welcome and hello. Great to be here. Okay, before we jump into the topic of the day, we like to start with a question to provide value to our audience at the beginning of every show, so to help them understand you as a person a little better. What is something, Vanessa, that you're passionate about which only those who know you through business might be surprised to learn. So those who know me through business know that I'm a very extroverted person and very high energy. I'm very extroverted. However, people find it strange to know that in my quiet time at home I like to read and do yoga. I'd like to do very introverted activities. So I know a lot of extroverts, like my cousin, for example, high on the extra version scale. She's always at with people. Like she doesn't read alone. She reading a book club, for example. I love to be in nature and have quiet time too. Thanks, Vanessa. Tell us a little bit about mistake people development. What do you do there? How did you arrive to this point in your career? Love to get a little background. Sure. So what we do is we develop leaders. So I do that through training. I have an eight module training program called mastering leadership that I roll out with my clients. I do that through one on one coaching and I also work with leaders teams. I find often I start working with a leader and they say, Hey, this is great. Could you do this with my team, or could you do an off site or can we bring you in for a keynote for our industry association. So that's essentially what I do and my journey is actually through education. I was a teacher for a few years. I taught at risk youth and it was tough. I had binders thrown at my head and chairs thrown at me and I was like do I really want to do this for the rest of my life? But I always love education, and so a friend of mine was working at a training and consulting firm and she got promoted into a new position and said hey, they're hiring. Would you be interested? And I said absolutely. So I started working in a consulting firm as a client service coordinator to the VP and moved into a sales role, moved into consulting and so it just kind of evolved and it been running my business now for eleven years. That's incredible. That's a great journey. N USAID, thanks for sharing that. And when with the topic of the day today, when we talk about the pillars of effective leadership, for context for the audience, what are we talking about here? For sure? For sure. So when I started my business I thought a lot about all of the issues that leaders have, regardless of the industry that they work in. So I literally took all of the Needs Analysis and assessments that I've done over the years and I took all of my notes from my coaching clients and looked at their goals and objectives and I literally mapped them out on a wall and I started picking out themes and I realized that, regardless of where you work, what industry, leaders really need to know three things. They need to know themselves. So that's the whole self awareness piece. So that became the first pillar of all the coaching and training that I do. The second pillar is managed. My team leaders have to know how to coach, how to get feedback, how to develop their people, and then...

...the third and final pillars lead my business. They have to know how to manage change, execute strategically, prioritize. Those are some of the eras that we focus on in in lead your business. And so leadership is really complex and even a lot of people don't realize that there are different passages and levels of leadership. And so when you're a self leader, when you don't have direct reports, you're still a leader in your organization. The minute you move into managing somebody else, your role changes. You have to split your time between managing yourself and managing other people. You have to learn new skills that most people didn't learn when they went to college university, like how do I actually have a coaching conversation? How do I actually give feedback? Then when you move into the next passage of leadership, passage three, leaders need to know how to manage other managers and again that's a different skill. You're not getting results directly through people, you're getting results through managers who are getting results through their people. And then you move into enterprise leader ships. So leadership is really complex and at every level you have to learn new skills, and so what these tailers allow you to do is sort of break down that complexity of leadership, regardless of what position or how senior you are in your organization, and just focus on developing key skills that are relevant at your passage of leadership. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So your eight module program, is that different for every level of leader, or is it the same concepts, just maybe at a more detailed level? Like you say, instead of managing direct reports, if you're managing managers now, is that slightly different? Of A program that you run so the core concerts are the same, Lisa. So, for example, in the lead Your Business Tiller, we do a module on executing strategically right, and the reason I added that into the program is because most leaders are told they need to be strategic and they have no idea what that means. So we break down strategy into three components that when I do that session, that module with new leaders, we talk about what is strategy and what are the three components and what does it mean to think? I think can plan strategically. When I do that same module with an executive team, for example, we look at their strategy and we dive into their strategy and we talk about how do you roll that down effectively to the rest of the organization, for example, what's your communication plan, Etcetera. Yeah, because it's often really tough, you think, as you move your way up through to your career, it's kind of tough to put yourself in the shoes of those leaders above you because you've never experienced anything like it. So that translation, rolling it down, as you say, is really important, I think, for the understanding, potentially even the empathy for what those senior level leaders actually look for and and have to achieve at their levels. So it's like I can see how culturally, rolling that down effectively can be very helpful for like the team atmosphere. Yeah, the best organizations that I work with WHO really impact culture through leadership development start the top. They start with their executive leaders, executive team, and then lowly rule the program out to the whole organization, because then the leaders across the firm are speaking the same language, they have the same tools. It's a really effective way to go. It does really impact culture. I mean, think about it. If you have an entire organization of leaders who are self aware, can you imagine the impact that will have on a business? Even things like trust, right, the research shows that organizations that have high trust outperform their competition by almost three so if you have leaders who are all who know how to build trust across the organization and externally, it really it actually even impacts the bottom line. I can totally believe that just from my own personal experiences and it all say so. One of the things we notice a lot in our business is that when we're working with particularly across different industries, because it sounds like you're working with leaders in all kinds of different industries and all kinds of different situations. We're noticing, and we have this conversation a lot internally, is that a lot of people think they're challenges are unique to them,...

...but they're not. We hear the same things over and over and see slight differences. But what are some of the challenges you see that transcend industries, that that leaders across in any industry and role are facing these days? Oh boy, these days. I mean that's the key word piece of these days. I mean, it's never been a more challenging time for leaders. It really hasn't. I've been developing leaders for over twenty years and it really has been so challenging. I mean so much uncertainty and having to develop so much resilience over the past couple of years. And I mean I know if I mentioned the word pivot one more time to leaders, they're like, do not mention that word. Work done the pivoting right. Leading and managing change and communicating change is huge. How to manage and lead a virtual and now a hybrid team? That falls really on the leader's lap, because a lot of organizations have said, you know, we hope you come in one day or two days or maybe three days a week, but it's up to each department. So now's the leader who's managing that. They don't know how to do that. So it's a really complex time for leaders right now. All rightly, let's get a little bit real here. So everybody talks about balance and one of the challenges I had over the years and being a leader is how do you balance it all out? And then you throw on top of it your comment about these days it's more challenging than ever. We got this diverse workforce. There not all in the office, we're all a lot of us are doing stuff virtually which, hey, productivity overall has gone up, but the same token, we all got kind of zoom fatigue, if you will, and we're all working a lot of hours. How do you help leaders and the people kind of set kind of boundaries and kind of have that? I need you to be focused and be here, but we also got to balance it out with I also need you to mentally be fresh in creative. Any advice there? Yeah, I mean, I think the key word that you mentioned is boundaries. You have to set boundaries. So a couple of ways that I suggest leaders do that. Number one is set goals for the day. So you have to know by the end of today, these are the three things that I want to accomplish, and when you've accomplished them, you've got to shut down because there's always more, there's always more, there's always more to do right. So you have to really focus on what are those key things that I want to accomplish today, and then shut down. And I do think also that leaders set the tone. So if you're a leader and you're emailing your team at ten o'clock at night, what message are you sending? Okay, you're saying that my expectation is that you're working at ten o'clock at night, and I leader say no, no, no, but they don't have to respond to the morning. Well, if your boss is sending you an email at ten o'clock at night and you happen to be on your phone, which we all are all the time, of course you're going to respond. Why wouldn't you? So bounties is key and you have to set boundaries with your team and I recommend leaders talk about it with their team and say, y'all, we need work life balance. Here to talk about it. Why don't we set some boundaries together? All right. So I'm laughing because I had a GM that I worked for where we would have dinner and drinks after all a very long day of work, and then you get back to your hotel room, you pop open your laptop and it could be one o'clock in the morning and it would be now. In reality, he didn't expect anybody to answer. It was the only time he had to get through those emails, but it was good. We did have that conversation like, Oh dude, I after a day, a long day like this, I got nuts and last my emails are gonna Sound like Charlie Brown. After all this. I don't got anything left in me. But can you share with us an organization that you feel that it's gotten it right and you've seen it in their results, in their outcomes, whether it be financial results or even retention and bringing attracting top talent? Oh yeah, that's huge. I mean we all know the talent war is on and attracting talent is huge right out. I can think about one of my clients who's a tech...

...firm and they there CEO comes is so committed. So that's number one. If you have CEO commitment. So first of all. The CEO said, I will take the training myself. The guys is an executive, he's very experienced, he has a consulting background, he's got an A, b a. he's like, nope, I will take this learning myself. So he put the whole senior team through. We did an Abridge version of the program first, every single training program that we launch. Now he comes on and he says hello everybody. I'm gonna tell you this is absolutely critical. I've gone through the program myself. Here's what I learned from it. So he's really setting the tone in terms of it's so important for us to have a learning culture. And I'm with you. I don't expect you to do anything I haven't done myself. And he knows, the CEO knows, that it's a commitment. It's a three, four five, your commitment. If you want to change culture. Leadership is one of the ways you change culture. It's not the only way. It's just one of the ways that you do, one of the spokes on the wheel, I suppose, and it's a long term commitment. Leadership is not, Hey, let's read a book about leadership and now we've magically changed. So that's what my module is eight months because I use what I call the grip training, which is you learn a little bit, you go away, you apply it, you come back, you talk about it, you learn a little more, you go away from months, you apply it, you come back and debrief and how did it go? And so that's really key. So it's really those organizations that have executive buy in and understand that developing people takes time. Vanessa, this is in person. I'd probably hug you, but that's inappropriate because that comment of getting executives involved is so critical. And all the years that I've done this, so they've done this value something for fourteen years now. And you know what's the biggest thing leaders got to inspect with the expect they got to be in the trench, is they gotta be ahead of these folks. People are gonna not do what you say. They're gonna see what you do and your comment, like we had two workstops kick off this morning and not I'm knocking on with because sief has did a great job, but as he kicked it off, he was at both calls to kick off both training sessions and I asked leaders to do it and they all give me that Chin music. Oh yeah, this is important, I'll be there. Okay, where are they? Some came up and I go you know, it's going back to your thing about boundaries, and I try to tell people, and I struggle with this, I'm gonna say that firsthand. I try to create a list every day of three things I have to do today. So if anything happens, these are the three things I gotta do. And then I got others and whether they happen or not, you know what, if they don't, I give myself Hey, it's okay, no cassock guilt. It can roll over to the next day. It's not bad. But I can't tell you how many times they tell folks being a leader today it's not about creating a list of thirty things you are gonna do. It's about trying to determine what the things you're not gonna do, and I think it's hard. It's hard for other you mentioned coaching earlier, other leaders coaching you to say it's okay, Hey, this is more important than that. If you're gonna do anything, do that. Prioritize my day for me. How do you deal with like prioritization? So, like, here's my little thing I got from leadership? Jitter bad. You tell me? When I first became a manager, had a great leader in that I had been working for and he told me leadership is all about Paul Michael, what he goes. It's all about prioritize, organized, educate, motivate, and it's stuck with me and going to the feet. First, P about prioritization. It's hard sometimes, right, because we all ourselves struggle to prioritize our own time and now we're being asked to coach and give guidance to others on how to prioritize their time. Anything you could share there? That's huge. Okay, so here's what I do. I do this exercise with every single leader that I work with. I get them to answer this one question. What are you paid to do? What do paid to do? They have to write down what they're paid to do.

Then they got to go check in with their boss and say, Hey, wait, this is what I think I'm paid to do. Is that right? Are We aligned? So, number one, it gets them aligned. Number two, we look at what's on your to do list right now. That's not aligned with what you're paid to do, because I see many leaders and organizations get promoted into new roles and they keep stuff from three roles ago. Right. Part of it is because they just don't know that, oh wait, it's not aligned with what I'm paid to do anymore. Part of it is they don't want to let go because I don't know, because they don't know how to delegate and I'm the only one in the company can do it properly, which is not true. They just don't know how to delegate properly. Part of it is because they like doing it. I just had this conversation with the CFO that I was coaching last week, and he's the chief ce IO, chief in from a officer, and he said, but, Vanessa, I like coding. I just every now and then I just I like to get back into coding. And I said, you're the C I o, you should not be coding. I said to him, wait a minute, okay, let's dial this back a little bit. How much time are you spending coding a month? He's like eight hours. Okay, so he said to me, Vanessa, I don't have time to be strategic. And then he said to me I spent eight hours a month coding because I'm solving some bugs getting some roude of some bubs. Right. I said to him, imagine if you just stop coding, because you're not paid to do that, and spent that eight hours a month thinking and planning strategically, which is, by the way, what you're paid to do. Imagine that. He's like, Whoa, Whoa, that's heavy. You're right, mind blown. WHOA. So vanessas, some of us, like Lisa, are natural born leaders, right, they're willing, they give to others, that help others and to get there. However, we've all worked for those other folks. I call them natural born narcissists. They're great individual contributors, but when they're put into that leadership role it's no longer all about them. So they really struggle. Any insights there, you know, can everyone be a leader? Right, how do we get do you run into any of those folks? Maybe they're they're not narcissists. Maybe I'm being a little have you handed, but hey, we've all worked for him before and you're like really, any insights on how do you can turn some of those people around? Or can't? We for sure? So the first thing is mindset. Does someone have a growth mindset? Are they willing to learn and grow. You cannot turn someone around he doesn't want to learn and grow. Who says I know it all and by I'm not interested in learning. I find that's fairly rare. I do find most people, as you describe, for those want to learn and do a better job, they just don't know how. So that's number one is are they willing to learn? Number two is they have to understand what their work style is. So, Lisa knows, I always use an assessment tool called the disc profile, D I S C. It assesses your work style. So when I work with a leader like that, we always start with there. That's that know your self pillar right. We always start with a disc profile because it gives them some awareness into their work style. So more often than not there works out. If you if you think of a continue from task to relationship. They're much more on the task side their whole career. They've achieved great results by being task oriented and working individually. And what I get them to realize is you need to be much more relationship oriented now that you're a leader. So we look at a couple of things. We look at what do you need to do specifically to be less task oriented and more relationship oriented, and then we look at some of their strengths or weaknesses of their disc profile. And if you're somebody who who likes to drive results, let's look at how you can do that, not individually but with your team. So we have to leverage their strengths as well. As a leader, you have to be really authentic. So my goal when I coach a leader is to always think about, well, what's going to work for you, because we to work for someone with a completely different personality is not necessarily going to work for you. And so it's really about leveraging your strength and kind of dialing down that stuff off that that's a...

...weakness. So in all of our work styles, right, we have strength and weaknesses. So somebody like you described all those maybe someone who's like really, really direct. And so they don't I don't want them to stop being direct, because there's good things about being direct, right, like you know where you stand with someone who's really direct. But sometimes they overuse that strength and they're too direct and they just become playing rude. And so what I teach them is, okay, where's that boundary? Where's that fine line between being effectively direct, but not overly direct or you're rude. So it's a lot of self awareness. Yeah, I love what you just said about task oriented. Like small anecdote when I was coming up and I didn't have Vanessa's wonderful training yet trying to figure out like I was leading str teams. So they're early in their careers and having been an str for years myself, it was so hard to not just do their job for them but to wait until they really internalized it and we're producing their own results. You really have to hold yourself back as a task oriented person and and say no, they have to learn it. It's let them do it. It might take twice as long or three times as long, but this is their career. You have to let them develop it. And everybody did that at a different pace. So while you were kind of like, Oh, I could get this done in ten minutes, you know you still gotta like hold yourself back and realize, okay, they have, everyone has that different amount of time it takes them to really grasp a concept and you gotta let them get there. Otherwise what are you gonna do? It was part of that least's it's you were just saying that I was just thinking. It's like I had to make this shift of I got joy from winning a deal, for example, and being successful at it, and secretly, I guess, I also got joy from seeing other people succeed. And I'm saying, you gotta make this a little shift to go hey, it's not about me getting it done in ten minutes and gone. It's gotta be about me going I gotta be patient, which is not a skill set I have that's very deep on and let them kind of figure out can I help them get there, and then seeing the joy of man, I love it when the light boat goes off and for them. And I don't know if it's just kind of changing what you enjoy or whatever, but it's a little shift right, because you're not the center of attention anymore, like when you were the lead salesperson. Now you're row back, two rows back, and the more you go up your five rows back. That's it, and that's what you're paid to do. You're paid to be five rows back. You're paid to set the strategy. You have to get out of the weeds, you have to be a leader coach, you have to know how to delegate, you have to know how to motivate. You think about something like motivation, people always ask me like how do I motivate people? That's especially today, and this is crazy private world say you can't motivate other people. Were adults. People have to be self motivated. But what you can do as a leader is you can create an environment for them that is motivating. I read this interesting statistic recently that one of the engagement factors were is that people get to speak with their manager for fifteen minutes a week and that's that's enough. People think like, Oh, I have to have these long one on ones and they have to be an hour. Like why are you spending an hour in your one on one? have an agenda, make it quick, have a check in and if they need more time, they can book more time. But isn't that interesting? The data is actually showing us that fifteen minutes a week check in with your boss. It's necessary and critical, but it's enough time keep people engaged and motivated. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, well, that's so. I was just thinking that's a short amount of time. However, you've touched on something that's a huge pet peeve of mine, which is just because we booked an hour, we have to use an hour. It's not the case. Like, why is that that? We're like, okay, we blocked an hour, like we have to fill this whole hour. If you're efficient with getting your agenda items done and being an effective coach in that shorter amount of time, why wouldn't you give that thirty minutes back, or if forty five minutes back, if it's like an hour when really only fifteen minutes is needed... effectively coach? But having just red nuts statistic, Vanessa, did that surprise you as somebody who teaches leaders they need to coach? Now, I thought that was I was a fifteen minutes, but kind of it was really interesting because a lot of leaders don't even talk to their teams for fifteen minutes a week, and what I'm saying to them is you've got to give them fifteen minutes a week. You've got to give it to them right. So look at your schedule and think about that's a priority. That's what you're paid to do at a certain level of leadership. It's interesting. I was coaching a leader recently who was really struggling with time management. I said, okay, here's my challenge for you. Twenty five minute meetings. No more, only twenty five minute meetings, and it changed her life. She now she had either twenty five or fifty five minute meetings. So she needs a center for those fifty five minute meetings. You better have like a very clear agenda right of how you're going to say that's a long time. So to your point, Lisa, why are we just blocking off our meetings? Why don't we all like start the twenty five minute meeting revolution? That is great. You're more generous than I was when I was a worldwide leader. I struggled, so I switched with my assistant. Thank God for her. Fifteen and forty five minutes. That's how you got with me. You Got Fifteen minutes or you got forty five minutes. And a nice thing about it is if it went over by five minutes, hey, I still had a window there and I could actually pee once a day. Versus you get these back to back twelve hours and you're like folks, Hey, I'm late to every meeting I go to. I don't even have a bathroom break, forget about eating. It's like being a prisoner. So My uh wifeen's, I would come in and I would feel like you just slide the blade over with food on it, and then later on she'd pick it up take it away. So fifteen and forty five is what I did to change my life and make it make me much more productive. Maybe it's a fifteen minute revolution, then let's start it. You're smarter than I am. When you know, there's this meme that goes on linkedin every now and then. The folks have probably seen it, where it's like be a hero, cancel a Friday meeting. Let's inject more of that back into our weeks. Well, so, Vanessa, this is also such fantastic stuff. We could talk about it all day. But let's change direction a little bit here, because, as somebody who runs their own business, and you are technically then a revenue executive yourself, you're often prospected to buy sellers who are looking to get your attention. Now, if they do not have an introduction or like warm referral into you, what actually builds credibility and captures your attention? When it's a cold kind of reach out. Okay, so they have to be knowledgeable about my business. So if somebody reaches out to me and says hey an s I've worked with other leadership consultants or coaches and I've helped them to do this and tell me what are you going to help me to do? I might pay attention. But if someone say, Oh, Hey, I recruit, recruitment for a tech team. Can I spend some time with you, I don't know. I don't have a tip team, I'm a small business. Why are you wasting my time? So I have to know who I am and I have to know what I do and they have to share with me what results are going to get me, and only then will I pay attention. And if I don't get that, honestly, delete. Yeah, you talk about that, show me, you know me all the time. All right, this next question are acceleration insights, or I like to call it the one thing. So what is one thing you'd love to share with our audience, that little piece of advice that really helps them become more effective leaders or just in an all an effort to achieve their own goals? What might that be and why? I think, if you're thinking about sales leaders, I would say responsiveness and follow up. One of the comments that I get from people all the time is wow, thank you for getting back to me so quickly. Right. So, if you're on sales and you're not responsive, that's it's a big issue. I mean sometimes I've probably booked a meeting, responded to an email and booked a meeting before someone else to compet it or has even responded... the first email. Who Do you think the person is going to work with? And then the other key piece, I think, is follow up. People get busy, there an email overload and it's your drop to follow up. And I actually have an excel spreadsheet and I track all of my follow ups and when I did it and how often and when I need to follow up next. Doesn't take a long time to do that, but to me it's so critical to the sales cycle. Oh, I love it. That was so beautiful because we actually we call that shaking the trees. When you go back and you'd shake the trees a little bit, you'd be amazed how much business comes out of that. And it's it is something that's part of our curriculum. Is talking about the fact that nine two percent of executives actually say no four times before they say yes. So if you're not contacting somebody and following up more than four times, you're missing out on a massive opportunity to win their business because they're not accustomed to people being that good at follow up. So I absolutely had, I had to say that because I love that advice so much. Vanessa, it's a zing. Some more shake. Here's some more shaking trees. Exactly. We're having fifteen minute meetings and we're shaking the trees. Folks, this is the two big gagays. No, there was so much wonderful, wonderful information that you provided during this show. Vanessa. Thank you so much. If anybody wanted to get in touch with you about the topics we touched on today, what's your preferred method of communication? So you can probably just pop on Google and type in mosaic people development or www dot mosaic P D for people development dot com, or just link in with me. Perfect, look in with me. I'm happy to Lincoln. I love Linkedin. It's a great way to connect with people. Yeah, link in. Yeah, it's fantastic. I know. And you should also sign up for Vanessa's newsletter while you're there, because I get your newsletters through Linkedin and it's a great information every week. I love reading it. So they should check that out as well. Can't thank you enough for your time today, Vanessa. This was fantastic. It's been great having you on the show with us, such a leisure thank you so much. Thank you all right, everyone that does it for this episode. Please check US out at www dot B two b rev exact dot com. Share this episode with your family, your friends, your co workers, your leadership and if you like what you here, please do us a favor and throw us a five star review on itunes. And until next time. We had value selling associates wish you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the B two B revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show on Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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