The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

A 100+ Year-Old Marketing Framework (That Works!) w/ Wayne Mullins


We often use the words marketing and advertising interchangeably. But while advertising is a component of marketing, marketing itself refers to your ability to attract and keep a customer.

Which are you investing time in?

In this episode, I interview Wayne Mullins, Founder at Ugly Mug Marketing, about why your marketing strategy is messed up, how to turn customers into evangelists, and an ancient marketing framework that works every time.

Listen in as we discuss:

  • Why marketing doesn’t have to be the confusing mess it often is
  • The AIDA marketing framework from over a century ago
  • How to make your place your platform
  • Wayne’s controversial advice to professionals who want to accelerate

Check out this resource we mentioned:

Now that you know that marketing doesn’t have to be so frustrating, are you ready to learn some practical strategies to implement to make it start running smoother? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're welcoming back or repeat guests to go even deeper on marketing strategy, why it's messed up, how to turn customers into evangelist. I'm leaving on cover an ancient marketing framework that works every time. So please join me and welcoming back the show. Wayne Mullin's marketing manager at Ugly Mug Marketing and author of a new book entitled Full Circle Marketing. Wayne, thanks so much for taking time and coming back. Thank you so much that I'm excited about this conversation today. All right, so last time you were here we asked our standard question, but we always like to start with an odd one so the audience gets a little deeper sense of you, and so this time I wanted to see you know when you think back over the pandemic in the way that it changed our lives, the opportunities that presented, as well as challenges. I'm curious about two things your most grateful for in terms of the changes that pandemic created for us. Yeah, absolutely, Chad, I'm so. You know, I don't think anyone be surprised by saying that. We, you know, we as a company, myself as an individual family, made significant changes during the pandemic. The to though, that I would say I am the most grateful for. Number one is during the course of that time, my wife had previously gone to work out classes, so she would go to, you know, classes in the morning or in the evening, and all of that stuff got canceled, obviously. So she picked up running and started running with me in the morning. So since that time she's run with me several days a week and actually set a pretty good goal this year and she's she's hit it. So that's that's awesome. More time together and different types of goals that we can hit. Yeah, absolutely. So that's one. The other, I think, Chad, is more big picture. I'm thankful that for so many of us, what we finally realize was that our work isn't always confined to the spaces or the places that we think are we previously believed it was. You know, anyone listing knows that that covid really opened up what's possible through technology and through remote work. But I think without the pandemic and without everything that took place, I don't know that we would have gotten there nearly as quickly, obviously. So yeah, I would say those two things. Yeah, and those are both great. I mean the whole change from for me was massive because there was no more jumping on planes every week, which was great. Got Spend more time at home. So, as much as you know, people have struggled through it and challenge is always like to look at and see if we can't find the bright side. So definitely appreciate you so sharing that with us. And so let's kind of jump into the topic of the day and let's start with full circle marketing. Give the audience a quick overview of what they'll find and what the inspiration was. Yeah, absolutely, Chad. What I'd say Full Circle Marketing is really a book that comes from this place of clarity. So what we know to be true, when I know to be true from literally working with clients and over a hundred industries from around the world, is that marketing is often confusing, complicated and expensive. And Full Circle Marketing says that marketing doesn't have to be that way. Yes, it often is, but there are some things that you and I can do, regardless of the size of our business, whether we're a solo preneur to a fortune one hundred company, there are things that we can do to bring clarity, to bring strategy and to bring our marketing to a completely different level. So that's where the book, or the idea for the book,...

...actually comes from. And so I have to ask how long did it take? The right yeah, so the book itself only took probably about six months of actual writing time. Then we spent about three months in kind of the preproduction phase, I guess you will or pre launch phase. That was, you know, getting all the interior laid out the book, going through editors, things like that, the cover design, all of that good stuff. But in total, I would say probably about a year between the writing, the preproduction and then the launch phase. Okay, Guy said. So when you think about, you know, marketing strategies inside of companies, you mentioned that there are confusing mess. And so, rather than talk theory, could you kind of paint a picture, give us an example for the audience? Sure, absolutely. You know. So anyone who has has attempted this thing called marketing, they understand that there's a million options today. Right, it wasn't that long ago that this thing called the Internet and all the various Internet options in terms of marketing dollars didn't really exist. You know, early days there was Google, you could do some Google ads, add since paper click campaigns, but nowadays you've got advertising on Facebook, on Tick Tock, you know, instagram, you just you name it, there's a different type of platform that you could be potentially advertising on. And so as the waters or as the possibilities have expanded in the marketing world, what's happened is people go from thing to thing, they hop from platform to platform attempting to make this thing called marketing work in usually all they end up is with frustration because it doesn't seem to work in. What we say is this that when you are actually strategic, when you build your marketing on proven frameworks, it doesn't have to be that way for you. So a specific example of that is what we call the AD Rep Marketing Strategy and Chad this. Unfortunately, we see this happen all the time. We talk to clients and we hear their first same experience, a bit about this happening in this strategy works like this. Chad, the the Ad Rep for the local media company or for the online you know, where us, facebook, instagram, you name it, reaches out to the entrepreneur and they say, Hey, we've got this wonderful thing going on right now, this wonderful promotion where if you spend x dollars, we're going to double it or, if it's an online thing, we're going to give you your first hundred and fifty or two hundred free just to try us out. And so what happens is the entrepreneur says, you know what, I'm really, really busy right now, but I know this thing called marketing is so important that we should be doing it. So they say to the Ad Rep, yes, that sounds great, let's do that because it's important. And so the ad Rep then says that's wonderful, we're excited. What do you want us to put on the AD? What do you want to add to actually say? And the business owner says, Oh, great question. You know, I really don't have time to deal that right now. Tell you what you run up, put something together and bring it back and I'll take a look. And so we end up with this situation where we keep following trap to jumping from Ad Rep to adrap based on who's got the best promotion or WHO's got the best deal. And even the ads themselves aren't consistent, they don't flow together, they're not part of a strategy because we are turning them over to the ad reps to actually create for us. So, when we think about this, are there specific things companies should be doing to avoid making this mess or, if they're in this mess, you know get out of it? Something that they need to change, a mindset or a perspective, or is it cultural or their understanding of marketing? How do they kind of future proof themselves or make sure they're ready or have a path out if they're already in a mess? Yeah, great question. What I would say, Chad, is that if you find yourself relating to what I described, in other words, you know marketing is important, but you you continually don't have time to do it or do it the way you know... should be done. Step number one is to make the commitment on your calendar. Right. It's easy to sit here and hear me say like make the commitment, but it's completely different when you have to pull out your calendar and block time on your calendar to make this thing happen. What I would tell you is that marketing, when done correctly, is the life blood of the growth of your organization, whether your for profit or not for profit, marketing is the life blood. And so number one mindset shift is I have to be willing to commit the time, all my calendar to be intention and all about this. You know, the other thing I would say is this. We have to be careful, Chad, when we begin grabbing for what the latest guru or the latest influencer is pushing or promoting right, we are. We are hopping from tactic to tactic with no underlying strategy or framework. And so when you find yourself jumping to the next thing that the guru is talking about right, you need to step back. You need to really to analyze. Does this, whatever this thing is that they're talking about, does it actually fit into the strategy that we have in place where that we are creating for our marketing? And so when we think about, you know, this whole strategist, marketing strategy. There's a there's a big focus on customer evangelists and sometimes they have a tendency to accident only happen. Sometimes it's more deliberate, and I'm curious, when you know you're working or suggesting the companies that they also deliberately work to create customer evangelist. How does it what does that manifest into? How does that what does that look like from an execution standpoint to you know, it's different to say I'm going to do it, but then how do I make that a reality? Yeah, the first place you have to start with is actually with the definition of marketing. What is this thing called marketing? And lots of people, we find, misinterpret or missdefine what marketing actually is. They use the word marketing and advertising interchangeably and they're not one in the same. Now, advertising is a piece or a component of marketing, but they're not the exact same thing. So the way we love to define marketing is this marketing is your ability to attract and to keep a customer. So advertising is on the attraction side, right. That's the things we're doing out going out there to get our name out to people who don't currently know about us or who aren't currently doing business with us. The keeping side, the whole purpose of the keeping side isn't to have customers come back to you or I every few years and purchase our product or services. The purpose of keeping a customer is conversion. It's converting them into evangelist for our products, our services or our brands. So, as we talked about this and we you know, materials that came across, I was reviewing them and stuff, there was something in there that made it just made me chuckle, and it's this concept of this ancient marketing framework that works every time. And I have to say when I read it, it literally made me pause and rack my brains to see, like wow, am I missing something? So I'm curious to know what it is and is it so obviously you know why. Why are so many people missing it? Yeah, well, I think the reason a lot of people are missing at chat is because we live in this world where we believe that the next thing is the best thing and that's how we fall in the cycle of chasing the latest guru in the platform that they're talking about or this quote unquote strategy that they're talking about. So what's so funny is when we step back and we actually look at what are the underlying frameworks that make marketing work, regardless of industry, regardless of product or service, what are the actual frameworks? And there's two that are very, very powerful, and they're actually the two that I go through in...

...the book in detail and talk about. The first one that I would mention is called Aida, and that's it's an acronym. It stands for something. Each letter stands for something. So it's a I, Da Aida, and I'll give you just a super quick run through of each and then happy to dive into more detail if you like. But this actually was first written about all the way back in one thousand nine hundred and ten. So over a hundred and ten years ago was the first time this marketing technique was written about, and over the course of of the information age that we live in it's been forgotten because we somehow believe, Chad, that human nature has changed, the way that people make decisions, the way they consume content has change, but human nature has not changed as much as we think it has. This framework still works as wonderfully and as brilliantly, as it did way back into late eighteen hundreds, in early nineteen hundreds, when it was first introduced as a quote unquote framework. So each letter stands for this. So the first a stands for attention. So where attention goes, money will flow. That's the first one. Yep. The next one is I, and this is an important distinction. People are interested in their interests, not in our product or services. People are interested in their interests, not in our production services. That is a huge distinction. When it comes to writing and communicating our message, our marketing message, to the world. We must keep that front and center. The next letters D, and that's for desire. It does no good to capture attention, it does no good to speak to their interest if we don't evoke desire. And so desire starts with the knowledge that something better exist. So what I mean by that? Something better meaning there's something better to alleviate the pain or the frustration that I'm going through. There's something better, a better state that exists so I can achieve more things. It will make me feel a certain way. Once we understand that something better exists, that is when desire begins to kick in and then the last letter, and that an acronom is the AA, the final a, and its action. We must, through our messaging, give people a clear, specific next step to take week, and so when we say specific actions to take, the we're talking like a call to action would be kind of an equivalent today, something that we have to give them a reason to go somewhere. That's exactly right. Where I think people mess up, though, chat is they assume that people know what to do next. In very often it's not that people can't figure out what to do next, but they need to be told here's the next step to keep this thing moving forward. Right, if you're interested in what we have, the next step is x, Y R Z. Excellent, excellent. All right. So let's pivot here a little bit and let's talk about ugly Mug Marketing. For those that haven't heard the previous episode, although we will put the link in the show notes, tell the audience you know, what are we doing at Ugly Mug Marketing? What sets US apart? Yeah, absolutely so. What we do it ugly Mug marketing is we remove a lot of frustration. To be honest with you, people typically come to us, clients come to US and oftentimes they're frustrated in one or two areas. Number one, they're not getting the results that they think they should or could be getting from their marketing efforts or, number two, they have some frustration around the marketing that's taking place, maybe from other agencies or other vendors that they're using for their marketing pieces. You know, one of the things chat in the marketing world that's so prevalent are what are called Vanity metrics, so you know vantage you make, sures get push around. In other words, we're going to help you get xmillion impressions or reach xmillion people. We're going to drive x thousands of visitors to your website, like all of these things matter, but they don't matter and less they're part of...

...a marketing system. In other words, it doesn't do any good to send a million people to someone's website if they're all the wrong traffic for that particular organization. And this is what we're up against day in and day out. We live in a world where it's easy to impress people with metrics, with all these wonderful stats, but at the end of the day, our clients come to us most often. We in the in the for profit world, because they want more money in the bank account and that, at the end of the day, for them, is the metric that matters when it comes to marketing. Love it, okay. And so when we think back, you know, over the last things been about almost two years talk, but you're good now. You've gone through the pandemic. Curious to know what's new with the company since we last talk. How did you whether? How did you make it through? Just kind of how has the house the last two years changed or impact of the company? Yeah, we we came through the entire pandemic very well. Our team has since grown. We're continuing to grow. You know what's interesting about about the pandemic for us, we knew that we had a lot of clients who were hurting very bad, you know. So we work in a lot of different industry trees and a lot of our clients had to actually shut down for long periods of time, and so they went from very solid revenue numbers to virtually no revenue almost overnight. And we began shifting pretty immediately into making our place, our platform, so our online platform, a place where people could come to have discussion and dialog. We turned our platforms online and our email list into a place to shine the little bit of spotlight that we have owned to people who are hurting, so that the community and so that people on our list and people that watched, etc. Could go out and help those people. And we didn't have a goal with this other than we knew we had these platforms, we knew we had these audiences and we knew that our clients were hurting so bad. So, you know, we decided as a team that what we're going to do is we're going to give other people our spotlight allow them to talk about what's going on. And so, over the course of a six week period, we ended up actually going live on facebook or some form of live video interview with somebody over sixty four times over six week period. And again, we had no goal. So it wasn't like, you know, each person's got to go interview x number of people. It was reach out to the people that you work with, reach out to people in our community who you know are struggling, who you know are hurting right now, and let's give them some spotlight, let's give them some attention. And so what I would say, I thought all that Jad is, you know, oftentimes when things you're going well, there's so much that we take for granted, and one of the things that I would say about about the team, our team here, is that when we kind of had this this call to action, if you will, this mission to share the spotlight, there was no need for controlling, there was no need for prodding or pushing. It was here's what we have to offer, let's make sure that people get it. So it's a long version of just saying, you know, I'm super proud of there, our team and the way they rallied together and made this happen for our clients and the people in our community. I love it. That's an amazing, amazing way to seize the opportunity and help others. Very impressed to hear that your team, you and your team, had the presence of mind to do that. It's it's inspirational and I just want to say thank you because I know many people struggled to figure out how do I help those that are in my community and it sounds like you did a great job with that. So thank you very much for doing that. And now you will remember from the last time. We have two standard questions and I'm curious to see if I'm going to compare your answers to see if they're changed. The first one is,... know, hey, you're a prospect for a lot of people out there that are selling. Always curious to know has it changed, what captures your attention and for somebody to earn the right to time on your calendar if they don't have a referral of reference into you? Yeah, great question. You know. One of the things. So I'm actually helping a friend of mine right now who's making be to be connections. He's working in a financial services industry and he's so he's working with executives in the banking and financial industry. Those are the connections he's trying to make and one of the things that that we were just talking through and one of the ways that has really pivoted is to reframe the outreach into a question that's meaningful to them. And so another word. You know, my inbox has flooded with all the various inquiries. We can help you, you know, get more leads, we can help you do all these things, but when people ask genuine questions, that proves to me they've done some research right. So an example would be anyone who's followed us for any length of time would know. Okay, it appears their team is growing. They're adding more members to the team. So if someone were to approach me, let's just say they're on the HR side of things, and they were to approach me and say a questionable lines of Hey, Wayne, I've been watching your team, following your team for for a little bit of time here, I've noticed that you are continually continuing to grow. Just curious. What is the most difficult thing when it comes to on boarding new employees for you? So again, posing the thing, not as you're here to all for me all the solutions and what I love more leads or what I love to be able to own board new team members more quickly or more efficiently. Yes, all of those things are obvious. Like you know, we would all like those things. But when you shift it into this conversation, he removes that initial wall that we all put up. Right. So that's number one, I would say. Fine, thoughtful questions, meaningful questions that can open up a dialog that can then lead into much more of that, the conversation around your product or services. Yeah, perfect, well said. Well said. So all right. So last question. Acceleration in side. One piece of advice, only one, that you could give to sales, marketing or professional services people that you believe, if they listen to would help them achiever see their targets. What would it be and why? All right, chat, are you ready for when the slightly controversial? Please, let's do it. All right. So my advice would be this, and I'm speaking to myself, so I'm destly big Cavy, I'm speaking to myself as well, but it would be this. Stop being so lazy. Now here's what I mean by that. We as sells people, and I look, I'm a salesperson. I love selling. We as sells people, we as a marketers. We're lazy, and here's what I mean by that. We believe our entire mission in life is to get people to the point of sale, have them pull out their wallet, hand the money over to whoever's taking the money in our company and then we're gone. Right, we're out looking for the next one to bring to that point, and when we do that, we lose out on creating the most powerful cells tool, the most powerful marketing tool that exists today, and that is an army of evangelist who believe in us, who believe in our our product, our service, but more importantly, believe that we genuinely care about them as human beings. And so that's my advice. It's let's not be lazy, and what I mean is let's continue that relationship. Let's work after the point of sale to nurture them, to turn them into evangelist. I'm just curious. Shadow you familiar with Joe Girard? Yes, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So Joe Girard is the Guinness Book World Record Holder for the greatest salesman in the world. Over the course of his he sold automobiles. Over the course of his fifteen year career he sold over twelvezero automobiles, all one on one,... fleet cells. And here was the magic of Joe's success. Every single month every single customer who had ever bought a car from Joe got a note in the mail, a card in the mail. Every single month every single customer got a card in the mel so over the course of that time he built an army of evangelist for him so that any time a family member, a friend said Hey, we're in the market for car, is ar any by you recommend the first name that came up was Joe. Yeah, I love it. I often wondered how he kept up with that as he got into the thousands of customers, but it's one of those things that goes back to you know your point. Don't be Lazy Right, put in the work. It's awesome advice for anybody out there. Yeah, I agree. So all right. So if we if you want somebody to pick up the book, where do you prefer that they go to get full circle marketing? It's available at all the major retailers, Amazon, Barnes and noble, all the major retailers. So anywhere they prefer it's okay. And and if they want to get in touch with you to learn more about ugly Mug or talk about these topics, is there a specific place you'd like us to send them? Shure, the websites the easiest, just ugly Mug Marketingcom, all my contact info, social media, all that stuff, so all on one spot. All right, awesome way, and I can't thank you enough for coming back to the show, my friend. It's been absolute pleasure to talk to you again. Thank you chat. I've enjoyed our conversation as always. All right, everybody, you know the drill. Does it for this episode be to be Rev exactcom share with friends, family, Co workers, and until next time, we have value selling associates. With you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (256)