The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 3 months ago

Decoding the Myths & Mysteries of Outbound Marketing w/ Mark Colgan


Your latest paid-ad campaign is a resounding failure. You wanted to try and siphon off some customers from your competitors' larger customer base. As it turns out, those extra customers allowed your competition to reach far further into far deeper pockets to outspend you at every turn. Why is outbound marketing so difficult? 

Today’s guest, Mark Colgan, CEO of Spea k on Podcasts, says it doesn’t have to be. He joins the show to decode the myths and mysteries of outbound marketing.

In this episode, we discuss:

Why outbound marketers should think like SDRs

How to tackle the difficulty of attribution in outbound marketing

Why helping is better than selling

Now that you’ve cracked the code to effective outbound marketing are you ready to learn more about the entrepreneurial journey for women, or gain the skills to spot professional sabotage before it happens? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executiveexperience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams tooptimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources,you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BDB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about outbound marketing, the mystery and mythof how to make your outbound marketing more effective than than it is today.Tell us. We have with US Mark Colegan, CEO, is speak onpodcast mark. Thank you so much for taking time and welcome to the show. Hey, Chad, thank you so much for inviting me on. I'mreally looking forward to it. So we always like to ask a question justto get to know you're a little bit better, and I'm intensely interested inthings that you're passionate about that those that only know you through work might besurprised to learn about you. Yeah, I think I probably wouldn't say passionate, but I would love a I love a prank, you know, prankingpeople, tricking people. I absolutely love it. I find it so satisfyingand it's only me that that finds it funny as well. And I thinkmy colleagues at work they see the most serious side of me, not thepranks to side. So yeah, I think that'd be surprised to hear thatthis. And so, what's the best prank you've ever pulled? Well,the Best I've ever pulled is I food London into thinking that there was goingto be a cafe opening up where you could pet live foxes. That's atrue story and I had over Fivezero people signed up to the waiting list andit was covered in time out London at The Times. Ask Men Huffington Post. It went viral. Ah Ha ha, that's awesome. And what happened whenpeople found out they were going to get the pet foxes? Well,I didn't take any money. I was very, very careful to to nottake any money. So I just had to write a press release after theRSPCA and Peta worth threatening sending a lot of threats to me and yeah,I had to pull the plug on it. I think everybody understood. I hopeso. I hope so. That's a great one. I love itall. Right. So in your prep materials there were something that caught myattention and just kind of resonated with me and there was a phrase think likean str with your outbound marketing and I would really curious to hear you unpackedout for the audience. Sure. So I think just before I unpack this, the context here is that I started my career in sales, I thenmoved into marketing and now I work in almost a revenue leader role. SoI've been there at the coal face for both of those roles and I coachsales reps at the moment via the sales impact academy, and I teach themabout outbound prospecting, which is why I talk so much about the topic.And one of the things that you have to be when you're an SDR it'sjust absolutely fearless and have the tenacity to keep going and keep going. Youhave to do your research, you have... clean that research, you haveto reach out and start conversations, oftentimes very very cold, and start thoseconversations to book meetings for the rest of your team, for your count exective. Sorry, and I think if more marketers had that attitude of just havingthat tenacity to go out there and speak to people, because essentially we're startingconversations. That's what we want to do, whether we're marketing on wherever is setting. I think that there would be a lot more marketers that would bemore successful in contributing to that revenue number that we're all trying to achieve.Well, and I think that's a very important point right, because a lotof people will think, Hey, marketing content and or campaigns and or effortshave a tendency to come cyclically or in fits and start, rather than sometype of consistent engine pumping, that it should be much like an str SDR. I mean, unfortunately that's one of the tough jobs because they live ina world of rejection every day, and so to have that fearlessness that youtalked about and understand that what people are responding to isn't necessarily them as aperson, but the unexpected interruption that is happening in their life. Nobody likesto be interrupted, but to be able to push through that and focus onsomething of value and impact or helps that person solve problems becomes critical. That'sa very interesting kind of perspective in Lens with through which to look at outbound marketing. The question becomes, then, how do you have a team orwork with a team to have them scale content distribution so it is consistentin the line and with other sales activities? Yeah, sure so. I thinkwhen it comes to content distribution, where now we're living in a timewhere you can go on Linkedin and if you understand your ideal customer profile isand who you're buy a persona or are, you can very easily identify fifty people, let's say, in a list, and all you need to do isconnect with them on Linkedin and send them a message. That is essentiallyout by and marketing. And if you've pee, if you've created a pieceof content, you can use that content as the reason that you're reaching out. Now, I wouldn't recommend just sending a link to a gated piece ofcontent, so a piece of content behind the form. What I would recommendthat you do is you reach out and say hi, Chad, I seethat you are such and such an. We've put together some content about X, Y Z, being pain points that you are likely going to be facing. Thought you might find it interested. Would you like me to send itacross to you? And that's all you need to do. And for whenI say it like that in a couple of sentences it sounds too simple,but it really really is that simple. Well, I mean most people havea tendency to overthink things. At the end of the day that we getour own way. I mean I've seen numerous as to our teams getting theirown way of what do I send? Why aren't they responding to me?Talking about myself? It's kind of like you. Nobody likes to hang outwith that person at the party that only talks about themselves. You need tobe able to show them something that's can be valuable to them. Marketing,I think, is better position to do that the SDR. There that disconnectbetween the marketing focusing on hey, we can solve these problems and SDR istrying to start a conversation. There's a...

...bit of a gap there, andso I'm curious when you think about about marketing, that email, example,that you said, hey, we just came up with this thought. Youmight find it interesting. Is that something that you have or would recommend amarketing team send, or something that marketing equip more of an str outbound teamto send? It really does depend on the set up that you have yourcompany, because you could be a small business which doesn't have these separate teamsand you're a Jack of all trades marketer, or you could be a larger companywith a self sufficient stour team, with account executives. But so,yeah, it really, it really does depend. I think what is whatit really comes down to, is coordination, making sure that you're not sending thesame message out or not sending any messages out at all. So,whatever you do, just make sure that sales and marketing is synked up,and that's why it's so important to have that alignment. And so then,okay, so we've got now, we've got out bout marketing, we've gotcontent we've created, we're sending it out, whether that be, you know,whatever channel we're sending it through. What about attribution? A lot ofpeople are asking, you know, hey, I'm investing in the creation of thiscontent, of these campaigns or these thought leadership pieces, but I can'treally draw line to how that's impacting my top or bottom line in the businessus. How do you recommend people think about or approach the attribution of thistype of about marketing? Yeah, and Chad this has been something that's keptme up at night for many, many years. As a marketer, whenit's pure outbound sales and you've cooled somebody cold from a list and they haven'tbeen existing in your crm before, then it's very clear where the attribution camefrom. It's generated by outbound activity. When it comes to marketing, theonly solution that I've come up with, and I've tested out some of thewellknown Datus, wellknown software as out there, is a spreadsheet and just sitting downand looking at every deal and going what did I do to this person? How did I under them? How did I get them? And youknow, I've sat there before with my cells team, and not a cellteam that I managed, I worked alongside them and I'd say Lucy, thatthis deal, what where did they come from? And Lucy might say Iself generated it. And and then I look back into our hub spot,into crm which we were using at the time, and I can see thatthey downloaded a report and I was like, okay, it wasn't self generated,but I can see why you've put it as self generated. But reallythere are so many factors that influence a by the buyers journey, especially intwo thousand and twenty one, that there isn't a clear cut way of attributingit, but you should have an understanding what that first touches. You shouldunderstand what the last touches and those two can be quite eat. That alot easier to determine and understand. It's the very messy and misty bit inthe middle which can be challenging and sometimes just a pair of ice and alot of hours spent going through it can really get that answer, to giveyou the understanding. I love it, and so one of our guests thatI was talking to, I can't rememberrom was earlier this week. We lastweek started talking about Tofu Mofu, both fut type of funnel, middle offunnel, bottom of funnel, and how...

...content has to evolve or target differentlybased on the journey mentioned, the buyers journey that they're going through, andI'm curious, when you're working with teams or suggest how by marketers think aboutthis? Do you segment kind of the types of content that they should begetting or receiving based on where they are in their journey, and how howD you deal? Do you get with that? So I've got quite acontroversial opinion that isn't really back to up by too many facts chat, butmainly by gun. Easier, mainly I B I gut feeling and and itjust seems to work. So I focus on creating content around the bottom ofthe funnel first. So I do make sure that I've got my table stakesof my marketing sorted. I have a well presented website. It has somesocial proof and testimonials and case studies. Yes, I might have a comparisonpage depending on how competitive my market and landscape is, but that would bemy table stakes. Once I've got that sorted, I then just think whatwould be the most valuable piece of content I can can create for my prospectand then that's what I start with. So I was working with a HRTech Company. I won't name them, sure they wouldn't be too happy ofI name who they are. There are dozens of steps in the employee lifecycle that you could create content for. So whether that's employee recruitment, onboarding the employee, retaining the employee, off boarding the employee. This softwarecompany does one of those steps, doesn't doesn't manage the whole cycle and they'reat they're selling to HR directors. So when you've got very, very heavilyfunded competitors in that space all creating content about the same kind of steps,whether it be employee and boarding or employer attention, you're going to have tocompete with them. And sometimes I say to people don't poke the bear,especially when it comes to pay DADS to don't start bidding on your competitors keywords, because as soon as they notice that, they can blow you out of thewater if you don't have deep enough pockets. But what we focused oncreating content on instead was what did HR directors need? Where are they lacking? What support do they need? And what we did, Chad, iswe had a look at job descriptions of HR directors and we've been looking atthem are on a regular basis and working at what is the similarities in termsof the responsibilities being asked for for these individuals. And it wasn't just theyou'll be responsible for a or be it was more like you need to becomethe domaining expert, you need to keep the tear of the the company abreastof changes in regulations, and we just saw that no one was really creatingcontent around those topics. Everybody was focused on the product, the product,the product. So we end up creating some content around the helping the HRdirectors be better directors, and it's been successful so far and we've started alot more conversations with people then we would have done it had we traditionally putout a piece on, let's just say employee off boarding, for example,because it's just there's so many other people...

...doing it and I think our cuse, I think our prospects are aware of that as well. So why notcreate some content which is actually valuable and, like I said, don't ignore thetable stakes. Make sure you have got your foundations sorted. But youknow, if you're churning out piece at several pieces of content a month ora week, I don't don't know how big your team is, just experiment, try, try, doing something completely off the cuff that's actually going tobe valuable, but don't look at any keyword analysis and just see if thatresonates with the customer more then your heavily keyword researched content does. And I'mwith you one hundred percent. I have a a tendency to believe that peopleoverthink the analyrics of Oh did this piece contribute to this percentage of movement throughthe funnel, and and I have a kind of feel like they get lostin the data and it removes the the humanity from it. Whereas about marketing, from my perspective, needs to be something that helps introduce you to topeople that you're working with, your brand, your call to what they're going toexpect, but it also needs to provide them value and needs to becouched in providing them value or something that's can be important to them. Sowhen you talk about not looking at the keyword and analysis, one are theother tap three things you feel are critical for Outbaum marketers today. So oneof the reasons, I go back to the first question, Chad, aboutbeing like an str as an SDR, you actually get to speak to yourprospects every day, several times a day. Yes, you're right, Chad.A lot of those calls aren't aren't positive. You do develop very thickskin. I think it sets you up for life, it really really does. But you you get to learn, you get to learn what you getto have so many conversations with very dynamic individuals in most cases, and ifyou are good at being a sponge and absorbing that information and collating it tosee what the patterns are. You can start to really get a very goodunderstanding of your customers and also you can start to ask questions in a verysmart way that makes you seem smarter than what you really are, because youjust asking the right question. is how I kind of fluffed my way throughthe beginning of my career and when it was taking that back to mark has, I think one of the key critical factors for album marketers is that theyjust have to know their customer. If you're not speaking to your customers oryour prospects on a regular basis, you really need to. If you're notreviewing job descriptions of your buy a personas, you really need to be doing that. For example, two years ago, the requirement of helping a company navigatethe return to work policy wouldn't have been an issue because covid hadn't existed. If you're thinking of marketers, social media marketers, Tick Tock wasn't athing four years ago. But things change and and it's very easy to seethat an understand that in marketing, but it does also happen in other anotherroles like facilities management, HR finance and accounting. There are always things changingand as a marketer, it's your job to know that stuff, even ifyou have to learn it outside of your nine hundred and twenty five. AndI think that goes on to my second point, which is critical, whichis invest in your learning in your market.

If there's one thing that I've alwaysfelt confident in, it's the market that I've been operating in, whetherthat be building data centers. I had no idea what when into a datacenter to begin with, but a few months later I knew the difference betweenracks and the different types of racks and different types of air cooling. Thatjust really get invested in that space. It's okay that you're not going towork they're likely for the rest of your life, but may as well makeit an enjoyable period of time when you're there by really knowing your domain areof expertise. Lastly, for out by marketers, is to let's say thelast critical tip, is to give first without expecting anything in return. Andit's so, so hard to do this and change your mindset, but onething I say when I coach the SDRs is that at the moment you stopselling, you start selling. People do not like to be pitched to,or so to, but everybody loves to buy. So why don't you bethat person, that guy or girl, whoever you are, that people thinkof when they are ready to buy? And you can do that by effectivelygiving value without expecting anything in return. Yeah, nobody wakes up in themorning and says, you know what, I think I'd like to sales pitchsaid. No one ever. So it's it is a bit of a mindchip and I think from a even a marketing standpoint, and talking about theSTRs, I think companies set themselves up to require their people to have tothink a little bit harder because we on board people, we have them drinkthe champagne company a is amazing, we're awesome, with great culture, wehave great people, and then we unleash them on the world, whether thatbe through outbound marketing, content creation or str outreach, and we're surprised whenall they want to do is talk about us, US, US, andI think sometimes it might even go back to how you are on board peoplefor the different roles so they understand what impact they're having on the buyers journeyversus what role they're playing for the companies. That seem fair a hundred percent.I was I am boarded an stl of the other year and I saidto her your first month, I want you to sell nothing, and shewas shocked. She she's like, what do you mean? What have Ijust agreed to doing? She must have been thinking, having second thoughts.But what I asked her and said to do was to Educ tap me onthe on the challenges and concerns that are by a personas have. That's allshe had to do for the first month and by the end of that monthshe presented that back to me and she had dozens of things. A lotof them I was familiar with. Someone even surprised me. And then wecurn around and say, okay, so take everything that you've learned and askthe next prospects that you speak to if they're experiencing these issues and these challenges, and if they are and our solution can help them bridge from where theyare today to where they need to be, then pursue the conversation and see ifyou can set up a further meeting. And that's exactly what she did.But again, I was in a very unique position in the point thatI could make the call and make the shots. I didn't have investor pressuresto hit crazy targets. So I was... a very unique position, butit really really worked awesome. And so let's pivot a little bit and talkabout speak on podcasts and how help the audience understand what the company does andwhat your journey was to find yourself there. Sure, okay. So what thecompanies that? So we are a podcast guest booking agency. So essentiallywhat we do is we work with the exacts from B Tob Tech brands andwe help them secure interviews. So we do that for them on podcasts.Whether I do, audiences are already listening to so, Chad, as youspent years on this podcast, investing your time and effort and bringing on greatguess there's an audience that you've built up and you're very deliberate with who youinvite onto your show. So it's a great opportunity for our customers to speakon podcasts like this one or ones where their ideal audience already listening to,because the audience is already prebuilt and if you go on there and deliver valueshare as much as you can your positioning yourself as a trusted adviser, andthat's essentially what we're helping our companies and our customers do to help them buildthat brand awareness, that credibility and generate demand. We don't promise that itwould generate sales. In fact, if you come to me on a salesschool and say you want sales, I'll point you in another direction because Iwon't. I won't promise you something I can't deliver. So that's what's speakon podcasts. How we got here? Good store, good. How longhave we got? Chad the so used to work in recruitment, then Iworked in so in recruitment, sales marketing and then as more entrepreneurial, runningcompanies. And really, when I look at what we do, it speakon podcast is it's a mixture of the matchmaking that you needed to do froma candidate to a job, so somebody looking for a new role and fora role that you are hiring, for marketing to position somebody in the rightway, and then sales is the outreach part to start those conversations with podcastshosts, and that's effectively what we do. I've just given the blueprint of howit works behind the scenes as clast. But we yeah, we match makeessentially the podcast host and our customers. And where it came about was inmy previous role I was running a company called task drive. I'd kindof I found myself with some spare time, so I started to reach out topodcasts host so to pitch myself effectively to go and speak on podcasts aboutlead sourcing, which was the the service that I was selling at the time, and I noticed with readative ease that I was able to secure a numberof interviews for myself and I thought, okay, well, that was thatwas easy. Let me let me see if I can. Let me seeif I can do it else elsewhere, for other people. So I spoketo my cofounders of the company I was working for and I managed to placethem on a couple of interviews as well. And what I realized had that thiswas eleven years in the making and practice and refining my skills and andcraft from from that recruitment, from that marketing, from that outbound sales,in order to be able to deliver this on an ongoing basis. So backin June, twenty twenty, which was...

...a great time to start a newbusiness. We started speak on podcasts and since then we've grown to almost twentyteam members from South America to Europe to Southeast Asia. And yes, it'sbeen it's been a great ride. That's an amazing story. Thank you verymuch for sharing that with us. So we ask all of our guests tostandard questions towards the end of each in review, and that first is simply, as a CEO, that makes you a prospect or a target, andso I'm always curious to know when somebody doesn't have that trusted referral into you, like, Hey, you really should park to this person. There's areason to when you don't have that, what works for you, when somebody'strying to capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar?Yeah, I mean, I could say what doesn't work, but we mightnot have time, Chad. So what works for me is somebody who's clearlydone that, done their research beyond looking at my job title and the companythat I work at the moment, according to Linkedin, it's somebody that isasking a question that makes me think and they're highlighting a potential issue that Imight be facing and they're asking, is that something that's hurting you right now? That's how you get the attention fit for me from me. I loveit. And so, okay, last question. We call it our accelerationin sight. If there's one thing you could tell sales marketing, a professionalservices people, one piece of advice you give them that, if they listento you, believe would help them hit or ex see their targets, whatwould it be and why? Okay, so it would be to just knowyour customers and once you know your customers, don't try and sell to them,help them. So that would be my advice. And why? Whyis that important? Well, fundamentally, you need to understand that is peoplethat you are looking to persuade to to market, to to change their perspectiveof the way that they're doing things. So you really need to understand theactual individuals that are making those decisions. And because they are humans, they'remaking decisions based on emotion, not logic. They back it up with a lotas well. And and Chad, I'm sure that the stat at themoment is seventy five percent of be to be purchasing decisions are made to avoida pain or a loss. That's because we're human. We don't want tobe in pain, we don't want to lose anything. So really remembering thatand then so knowing your customer and then moving on to the point of justhelping them. Help them avoid that pain, help them avoid that loss, andwhen they see you as that trusted advisor and they need the help toavoid the pain, they'll come to you. I love it. Well, mark, if somebody's interested in talking more about these topics or learning more aboutabout speak on podcast, where would you like us to send them? Sureso I'd love to have any conversations on Linkedin. So you can find meat Mark Colgan on Linkedin, or if you'd like to find out more aboutspeak on podcast, you can find us at speak on podcastcom. All right, mark, I can't thank you're not for taking time. Has Been Anamazing experience to have you on the show. Chess Chad, thank you so much. All right, everybody that does... for the episode be to beRev exactcom share with friends, family, Co workers. If you like whatyou here, leave us a review. Until next time, we have valueselling associates. With you're nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening tothe BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode,subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening. Until next time,.

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