The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 2 months ago

Decoding the Myths & Mysteries of Outbound Marketing w/ Mark Colgan


Your latest paid-ad campaign is a resounding failure. You wanted to try and siphon off some customers from your competitors' larger customer base. As it turns out, those extra customers allowed your competition to reach far further into far deeper pockets to outspend you at every turn. Why is outbound marketing so difficult? 

Today’s guest, Mark Colgan, CEO of Spea k on Podcasts, says it doesn’t have to be. He joins the show to decode the myths and mysteries of outbound marketing.

In this episode, we discuss:

Why outbound marketers should think like SDRs

How to tackle the difficulty of attribution in outbound marketing

Why helping is better than selling

Now that you’ve cracked the code to effective outbound marketing are you ready to learn more about the entrepreneurial journey for women, or gain the skills to spot professional sabotage before it happens? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're listening to the BB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated elpin executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies were tools and resources. You've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three two one: welcome every one to theB to b revenue executive experience. I'm your host Chad Sanderson todaywe're talking about Alba Marketing the mystery and myth of how to make youroutbound marketing more effective than than it is today. Tell us we have withUS Mark Colgan CEOS speak on podcast mark. Thank you so much for taking timeand welcome to the show he Chad. Thank you so much for inviting me on I'mreally looking forward to it. So we always like to ask a question just toget to know you a little bit better and I'm intensely interested in things thatyou're passionate about that. Those that only know you through work mightbe surprised to learn about you yeah. I think I probably wouldn't say passionate, but Iwould love. I love a prank. You know pranking people tricking people, Iabsolutely love it. I find it so satisfying, and it's only me that findsit funny as well, and I think my colleagues at work they see the moreserious side of me, not the pranks, Dosie, so yeah. I think they'd besurprised to hear that, and so what's the best prank you've ever pulled well,the best I've ever pulled is I fooled London into thinking that there wasgoing to be a cafe opening up where you could pet live foxes. That's a true story and I had over fivethousand people signed up to the waiting list and it was covered in timeout London. The Times ask men, Huffington Post it went viral, a Ahtiawesome and what happened when people found out they weren't going to get thepet foxes. Well, I didn't take any money. I was very, very careful to tonot take any money, so I just had to write a press of these after the irs, P,ca and Peter were threatening sending a lot of threats to me and yeah.I had to pull the plug on it. I think everybody understood, I hope so I hopeso. That's a great one. I love it all right. So in your pre materials therewas something that caught my attention just kind of resonated with me, andthere was a phrase think like an SDR with your outbow marketing, and I amreally curious to hear you unpacked out for the audience sure. So I think justbefore I unpack this and the context heres that I started my career in sales.I then moved into marketing, and now I work in almost a revenue leader role,so I've been there at the coal face for both of those roles, and I coach thoseraps at the moment vi the sells impact academy. I teach them about outboundprospecting, which is why I talk so much about the topic and one of thethings that you have to be when you're an SDR is just absolutely fearless andhave the tenacity to keep going and...

...keep going. You have to do yourresearch. You have to clean that research. You have to reach out andstart conversations, often times very, very cold and start those conversationsto book meetings for the rest of your team, O for your countenace. Sorry, andI think, if more marketers had that attitude of just having that tenacityto go out there and speak to people because essentially we're startingconversations. That's what we want to do, whether we're marketing on whereverare selling. I think that there would be a lot more marketers. That would bemore successful in contributing to that revenue. Number that we're all tryingto achieve well- and I think that's a very important point right, because alot of people will think hey marketing content and or campaigns and doorefforts have a tendency to come cyclically or in fits and starts ratherthan some type of consistent engine pumping that it should be much like anSR str. I mean, unfortunately, that's one of the tough jobs because they livein a world of rejection every day and so to have that fearlessness that youtalk about and understand that what people are responding to isn'tnecessarily them as a person but the unexpected interruption that ishappening in their life. Nobody likes to be interrupted but to be able topush through that and focus on something of value and impact, or helpsthat person solve problems becomes critical. That's a very interestingkind of perspective in Lens with through which to look at out boundmarketing. The question becomes, then: How do you have a team or work with ateam to have them scale, content distribution? So it is consistent inthe line and with other sales activities. Yeah sure. So I think whenit comes to content, distribution were now we're living in a time where youcan go on linked in and if you understand to your ideal customerprofile is and who your by a PASONA are. You can very easily identify fiftypeople, let's say in a list, and all you need to do is connect with them onlink Din and send them a message that is essentially out bar and marketingand if you've P, if you've created a piece of content, you can use thatcontent as the reason that you're reaching out now, I wouldn't recommendjust sending a link to a gated piece of content, so a piece of content behindthe form. What I would recommend that you do as you reach it and say: Hi Chad,I see that you are such and such and we've put together some content aboutXyz, being pain, points that you are likely going to be facing, thought youmight find it interested. Would you like me to send it across to you and that's all you need to do and forwhen? I say it like that in a couple of sentences, it sounds too simple, but itreally really is that simple? Well I mean most people have a tendency tooverthink things. I, at the end of the day that we get in our own way. I meanI've. Seen numerous STOUR teams getting their own way of? What do I say a? Whyaren't they responding to me talking about myself? It's kind of like you,nobody likes to hang out with that person at the party that only talksabout themselves. You need to be able to show them something. That's can bevaluable to them. Marketing, I think, is better position to do that. The SDRthere that disconnect between the marketing focusing on hey, we can solvethese problems and SR is trying to start a conversation there's a bit of agap there, and so I'm curious when you...

...think about out about marking thatemail example that you said hey we just came up with this thought you mightfind it interesting. Is that something that you have or would recommend amarketing team send or something that marketing a quip more of an SDRoutbound team to send it really does depend on the setup that you have yourcompany, because you could be a small business which doesn't have theseseparate teams and you're a Jack of all trades marketer or you could be alarger company with a self sufficient star team with accounting executives,but so yeah it really. It really does depend. I think what it's, what itreally comes down to his coordination, making sure that you're not sending thesame message out or not sending any messages out at all. So whatever you dojust make sure that sells a marking, a singed up and that's why it's soimportant to have that alignment, and so then, okay, so we've got now we gotout on market we've got content. We've created we're sending it out whetherthat be you know, whatever channel we're sending it through. What aboutattribution? A lot of people are asking, you know: Hey, I'm investing in thecreation of this content or these campaigns or wore these thoughtleadership pieces. But I can't really draw a line to how that's impacting mytop or bottom line in the business. How do you recommend people think about orapproach the attribution of this type of Aubaret, yeah and chat? This hasbeen something that's kept me up at night for many many years as a marketer when it's pure outbound calls andyou've called somebody cold from a list and they haven't been existing in yourcrem before then. It's very clear where the attribution came from is generatedby our band activity when it comes to marketing the only solution that I'vecome up with, and I've tested out some of the well known, Datas well knownsoftware is out. There is a spreadsheet and just sitting down and looking atevery deal and coring. What did I do to this person? How did I get them? How did I get them?And you know I've sat there before with my cells team and not a sell team thatI managed. I worked alongside them and I'd say Lucy that this deal, where didthey come from and and Lucy might say, I self generated it and and then I lookback into our hob spot into corn, which we were using at the time, and I cansee that they downloaded a report and I was like okay, it wasn't self generated,but I can see why you've put it as self generated, but really there are so manyfactors that influence about the buyers journey, especially in two thousand andtwenty one that there isn't a clear cut way of attributing it. But you shouldhave an understanding what that first touch is. You should understand whatthe last touch is and those two can be quite there a lot easier to determineand understand it's, the very messy and misty bit in the middle, which can bechallenging and sometimes just a pair of ice and a lot of hours spent goingthrough. It can really get that answer to give you the understanding. I loveit, and so one of our guests that I was talking to I can't remember it wasearlier this week or last week started talking about to fumous middle offunnel bottom of funnel and how how...

...content has to evolve were targetdifferently based on the journey mentioned, the buyers journey thatthey're going through, and I'm curious when you're working with teams or orsuggest how about marketers think about this. Do you segment kind of the typesof content that they should be getting or receiving based on where they are intheir journey and how? How do tail do you get with that? So I've got quite a controversialopinion that isn't really back up by too many facts. Jackut mainly I a manif I got feeling- and it just seems to work so I focus on creating contentaround the bottom of the final first. So I do make sure that I've got mytable stakes of my marketing sorted. I have a well presented website. It hassome social proof and testimonials and case studies. Yes, I might have acomparison page depending on how competitive my market and landscapers,but that would be my table stakes once I've got that sorted. I then just thinkwhat would be the most valuable piece of content I can create for my prospectand then that's what I start with. So I was working with a HR Tech Company. Iwon't name the I'm sure they wouldn't be too happy if I name who they are.There are dozens of steps in the employee life cycle that you couldcreate content for so whether that's employee recruitment, on boarding theemployee, retaining the employee of fording the employee, this softwarecompany does one of those steps, doesn't doesn't manage the whole cycleand they're in there selling to H R directors so when you've got very, veryheavily funded competitors in that space, all creating content about thesame kind of steps, whether it be employee and boarding or employerattention, you're going to have to compete with them, and sometimes I sayto people, don't poke the bear, especially when it comes to pay ads too. Don't start bidding on your competitorskey words, because as soon as they notice it, they can blow you out of thewater. If you don't have deep enough pockets, but what we focused oncreating content on instead was what did the HR directors need? Where arethey lacking? What support do they need and what we did Chad is. We had to lookat job descriptions of HR directors and we've been looking at them at on aregular basis and working at what is the similaritiesin terms of the responsibilities being asked for for these individuals, and itwasn't just the you'll be responsible for a or B it was more like. You needto become the domain expert. You need to keep the I of the company abreast ofchanges in regulations, and we just saw that no one was really creating contentaround those topics. Everybody was focused on the product, the product,the product, so we ended up creating some content around the helping. The HRdirectors be better directors and it's been successful so far and we'vestarted a lot more conversations with people than we would have done had wetraditionally put out a piece on, let's just say, employee off boarding, forexample, because it's just there's so...

...many other people doing it and I thinkour cast. I think our prospects are aware of that as well. So why not creaksome content, which is actually valuable? Like I said, don't ignore thetable stakes make sure you have got your foundation assorted, but you knowif you're churning out piece several pieces of content a month or a week out.I don't don't know how big a team is. Just experiment. Try, try doingsomething completely off the cuff. That's actually going to be valuable,but don't look at any keyword, analysis and just see if that resonates with thecustomer more than your heavily keyword, researched content does and I'm withyou one hundred percent. I have a a e, a tendency to believe that peopleoverthink the analytics of Oh, did this peace contribute to this percentage ofmovement through the funnel and- and I have I kind of feel like they get lostin the data, and it removes the humanity from it was a about marketing.From my perspective, needs to be something that helps introduce you toto people that you're working with your brand, your culture, what they're goingto expect, but it also needs to provide them value, needs to be couched inproviding them value or something that can be important to them. So when youtalk about not looking at the keyword analysis, what are the other top threethings you feel are critical for out Bo marketers today. So one of the reasons that I go back tothat the first question chat about being like an SDR as an SDR. Youactually get to speak to your prospects every day several times a day. Yes,you're right had a lot of those calls, aren't unt positive. You do developvery thick skin. I think it sets you up for life. It really really does, butyou get to learn you get to learn what you get to have so many conversationswith very dynamic individuals in most cases, and if you are good at being asponge and absorbing that information and collating it to see what thepatterns are. You can start to really get a very good understanding of yourcustomers and also you can start to ask questions in a very smart way thatmakes you seem smarter than what you really are because you're just askingthe right question is how I kind of fluffed my way through the beginning ofmy career and when it taking that back to markses.I think one of the key critical factors for Albemarles is that they just haveto know their customer if you're, not speaking to your customers, all yourprospects on a regular basis. You really need to. If you're not reviewingjob descriptions of your bipes ners, you really need to be doing that. Forexample, two years ago, the requirement of helping a company navigate thereturn to work policy wouldn't have been an issue because ovid hadn'texisted if you're thinking of marketers social media, marketers, tick, Tockwasn't a thing four years ago, but but things change and- and it's very easyto see that and understand that in marketing. But it does also happen inother and other rules like facilities, management, hater, finance andaccounting. There are always things changing it and as a marketer, it'syour job to know that stuff, even if you have to learn it outside of yournine to five- and I think that goes on to my second point, which is critical,which is invest in your learning in...

...your market. If there's one thing thatI've always felt confident in it's the market that I've been operating andwhether that be a building data centers, I had no idea what went into a datacenter to begin with a few months later, I knew the difference between racks andthe different types of wrecks and different types of air cooling thatjust really get invested in that space. It's okay! That you're not going towork there likely for the rest of your life, but may as well make it anenjoyable period of time when you're there by really knowing your domain arof expertise. Lastly, for out by marketers, is to let's say the lastcritical tip is to give first without expecting anything in return, and it'sso so hard to do this and change a mindset. But one thing I say when Icoach the SDRs is that the moment you stop selling you start selling peopledo not like to be pitched to or sold to, but everybody loves to buy. So why?Don't you be that person that guy or girl or whoever you are that peoplethink of when they are ready to buy? And you can do that by effectivelygiving value wifout expecting anything in return? Yeah, nobody wakes over themorning and says you know what I think, I'd like to sales pitch said no ever soit is a bit of a Monshi and I think, from a even a marketing standpoint andtalking about the str. I think companies set themselves up to requiretheir people to have to think a little bit harder, because we on board people,we have them drink to champagne. Company A is amazing, we're awesome. Wehave great culture, we have great people and then we unleash them on theworld, whether that be through outboard, Ting, content creation or SDR out reachand were surprised when all they want to do is talk about us as us, and Ithink sometimes it might even go back to how you on board people for thedifferent roles. So they understand what impact they're, having on thebuyers journey versus what role they're playing for the companies that seemfair, a hundred percent I was, I am boarded in Sr the other year and I I said to your First Month: I want youto sell nothing and she was so she's like what do youmean? What have I just agreed to doing? She must have been thinking of havingsecond forts, but what I asked her and said to do was to educate me on the onthe challenges and concerns that our bipes have that's all. She had to dofor the first month and by the end of that month, she presented that back tome and she had dozens of things a lot of them. I was familiar with someoneeven surprised me, and then we turned around and say: okay, so takeeverything that you've learned and ask the next prospects that you speak, doif they're experiencing these issues and these challenges and if they areand our solution can help them bridge from where they are today to where theyneed to be then pursue the conversation and see if you can set up a furthermeeting and that's exactly what she did. But again, I was in a very uniqueposition in the point that I could make the coal and make the shots. I didn'thave investor pressures to hit crazy...

...targets, so I was in a very uniqueposition, but it really really worked awesome and so, let's Pivit a littlebit and talk about speak on podcast and help the audience understand what thecompany does and what your journey was to find yourself there sure, okay, sowhat the companies are. So we are a podcast guest booking agency, soessentially, what we do is we work with the exacts, from B to B tech brands andwe help them secure interviews. So we do that for them on podcast, where theideal audiences are already listening to so charts as you spent years on thispodcast, investing your time and effort and bringing on great guests there's anaudience that you've built up and you're very deliberate with who youinvite on to your show. So it's a great opportunity for our customers to speakon podcast like this one or ones where their ideal audience already listeningto, because the audience is already pre built and if you go on there anddeliver value, you share as much as you can your positioning yourself as atrusted adviser and that's essentially what we're helping our companies andour customers do to help them. Build that brand awareness that credibilityand generate demand. We don't promise that it will generate sales. In fact,if you come to me on a sale school and say you want sales I'll point you inanother direction, because I I wot, I won't promise you something I can'tdeliver. So that's what speaking podcast does how we got here. Good story, good. How long have we gotchat? The so I used to work in recruitment.Then I worked in sowing recruitment, so I was marketing and then as moreentrepreneurial running companies and really when I look at what we do atspeak on podcasts, it's a mixture of the match making that you needed to dofrom a candidate to a job. So somebody looking for a new Roland for a rolethat you are hiring for marketing, to position, somebody in the right way andthen ses is the outreach part to start those conversations with podcast hostsand that's effectively what we do I've just given the blueprint of how itworks behind the scenes as we ass, but we yeah we match me essentially thepodcast host and our customers and where it came about was in my previousrole, I was running a company called task drive. I'd kind of I found myselfwith some spare time, so I started to reach out a podcast host so to pitchmyself effectively to go and speak on podcast about lead sourcing, which wasthe the service that that I was selling atthe time, and I noticed with redit ive ease that I was able to secure a numberof interviews for myself and I thought okay well, that was. That was easy. Letme let me see if I can. Let me see if I can do it else, we else wear for otherpeople. So I spoke to my co founders of the company. I was working for and Imanaged to place them on a couple of interviews as well, and what I realizedhad that this was eleven years in the making and practice and refining myskills and and craft from from that recruitment from that marketing fromthat outbound sales in order to be able to deliver this on an ongoing basis. Soback in June twenty twenty, which was a...

...great time to start a new business, we started to speak on podcast andsince then, we've grown to almost twenty team members from South Americato Europe, to South East Asia and yeah. It's been, it's been a great ride.That's an amazing story! Thank you very much for sharing that with us. So weask all of our guess two standard questions towards the nineve and thatfirst is simply as a CEO. That makes you a prospect or a target, and so I'malways curious to know when somebody doesn't have that trusted referral intoyou like Hey, you really should talk to this person, there's a reason to whenyou don't have that what works for you when somebody's trying to capture yourattention and earn the right to time on your calendar Yeah I mean I could saywhat doesn't work, but we may not have time Chad to what works for me. IsSomebody who's clearly done. Thet done their research beyond looking at my jobtitle and the company that I work at at the moment, according to linked in it'ssomebody that is asking a question that makes me think and they're highlightinga potential issue that I might be facing and they're asking. Is thatsomething that's hurting you right now? That's how you get the attention it forme from me. I love it and so okay last question: We called our accelerationinsight. If there's one thing you could tell sales marketing or professionalservices people, one piece of advice: You give them that, if they listen to,you believe would help them hit or ex see their targets. What would it be andwhy okay so it would be to just know your customers, and once you know yourcustomers, don't try and sell to them, help them. So that would be my advice,and why is that important? Well, fundamentally, you need to understandthat is people that you are looking to persuade to to market to to changetheir perspective, of the way that they're doing things. So you reallyneed to understand the actual individuals that are making thosedecisions and because they are humans, they're making decisions based onemotion, not logic, they back it up with logic as well and and Shadim surethat the state at the moment is seventy five percent of B to be purchasingdecisions are made to avoid a pain or a loss. That's because we're human, we don'twant to be in pain. We don't want to lose anything so really rememberingthat and then so, knowing your customer and then moving on to the point of justhelping them help them avoid that pain, help them avoid that loss and when theysee you as that trusted adviser, and they need the help to avoid the painthey'll come to you. I love it a little bit well mark if somebody's interestedin talking more about these topics or learning more about to speak on podcast.Where would you like us to send them sure so? I'd love to have anyconversations on Linkedin, so you can find me at Mark Colgan on Linkedin or,if you'd like, to find out more about speak on podcast, you can find assetsspeak on podcast all right mark. I can't thank you now for taking time.It's been an amazing experience to have... on the show Chesa. Thank you somuch all right, everybody that does it for the episode be to be revizor sharewith friends, family co workers, if you like what you hear leave is reviewuntil next time we have value selling associates which show nothing, but thegreatest success. You've been listening to the B TobRevenue Executive Experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time, e.

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