The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 2 months ago

Et Tu, Brute?: How Leaders Can Overcome Deceit & Sabotage


On a beautiful day in mid-March, you happily stroll into your workplace ready to tackle the most pressing issues facing your organization. You turn to your most faithful advisor and signal it’s time to get to business. All of a sudden, that same advisor, Brutus, starts stabbing you. And everyone else in the senate does, too. This easily makes your top-ten worst Mondays. Why is it that leaders never see betrayal before it happens? 

OK, so maybe it’s not as bad as Caesar, but as a leader in your organization, you need to be prepared to handle betrayal, theft and deceit — which means you need to listen to Today’s guest, Brandon Wilson, President and CEO of Wilbron Inc, and author of Sabotage - Leadership that Overcomes Betrayal, Theft and Deceit

Brandon joins me to share his expertise and be the oracle you need to turn the tide on the Ides of March and avoid ever falling victim to professional sabotage. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

- The importance of thinking in terms of legacy 

- Why leaders often fail to spot sabotage despite how common it is 

- The 4 horsemen of sabotage (and how to spot and stop them) 

Now that you know how to spot sabotage before it happens, are you ready to learn how to employ buyer-first principles or the role data should play in your organization? 

Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

You were listening to the Bob RevenueExecutive Experience. A podcast, dedicated El Executives, train theirsales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies were tools and resources. You come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcome every one to theB to be revenue executive experience. I'm your host Chat Sanderson todaywe're talking about leadership, the topic that is constantly evolving evenmore so with the way the business world's been changing the past twoyears with pandemic and all of the changes to remote versus in personversus cultural impacts to help us. We have with us, Brandon Wilson, chairmanPresident and Co of Will Brown Incorporated author of sabotageleadership that overcomes betrayal theft and deceit and frequent,contributed to CNN b t and today showed a name a few Brandan. Thank you fortaking time and welcome to the show, thanks for having me chat as an allree.So we always like to ask kind of an off the wall question just to get theaudience to know you a little bit better and I'm always curious to knowhere we spend so much time working and building these work. Personas, I'mcurious to know something you're passionate about, but those that onlyknow you through work or maybe only know you through your book- May Besurprised to learn about get personal early. We like to go deep just right out ofthe gate, you know. That's that's the first wayto be on a relationship is to go eat and go deep early, so you can, but the thing that I think that peoplewho only know me through business might be surprised to know about me is, as Iam a lover of music, I am passionate about music, all kinds. I mean from thestandards with Tony Benet to jazz of Gregor reporter to classic R and B withthe s west ban and anything Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. I just love music, it s so much so thatto double down on that, let's get personal. One of the things I mostenjoy is after work or whenever I break away from familiar obligations and I'mjust driving just to go shopping or to go through something passionate like ahobby or whatever go, go play golf or what have you on my way to that to thatdestination? I often find a cool instrumental on the radio and they start rapid nice, I'm very cool, very, very cool and isis something you've done like all your life or some of you can to laters music,I'm in there all the time. If I used to be that guy as a kid like in theCyphers, like you see on TV re styling away, I've lost some of theskiles as I as I've gotten older, but but it is a it's a passion of mine andwhat's interesting about it is not just wrapping for wrappings sake. It hasbecome for me a communications exercise. It provides me with an opportunity towithin a measure to formulate what the next thoughtsneed to be in the organized him in in a way that fits the cadence and it'sbecoming really. It becomes a really fun gain for me. That really helps meto become a more Communi, more effective communicator as a leader. Ilove it eleven, it's a great segue, I mean as a recognized communication, anexecutive consultant there's no doubt a story of how your passion for allthings leadership developed. So I was kind of hoping you'd share that withthe audience. Well, let me first day the dove. Tell of that last thought isthis. So if you want to become a better...

...communicator listeners startfreestyling, that's the key, take away thateverybody from the podcast. Now you do rapping yeah, it was Greiner. You know I care about.I care about your audience, and so I want to spend this time giving youraudience substituto themes that I've gathered along the way to becoming amore effective leader and business owner and communicate cater andexecutive consultant and to answer your question, you know my journey beganwith great mentors. I grew up with a lot of ambitions, a lot of desires, butnever had access to the kind of resources. I knew that I know existtoday that changed. When I went to college. I had a chance to workin Student Affairs I and work very closely as a student as a student andwe're very closely with the president, late, William Walker at AlbertUniversity, Dr Wegan Walker. I learned a lot about some of the challenges that the CEO with that level face. I willgraduate and then I will work for a very powerful civil rights organization.Their founder was still there. He founded the organization, then somethirty hard years ago, and so I had a chance to really sort of dive deeplyand richly into his experiences and starting that organization. We traveleda lot with one another, and I remember one day told me Said Brandy: You goteverything and it takes to be an incredible business leader and youshould start your your own business and I walked away, never feeling moreflatter for being fired. A man if you want to fire me just tellme to leave latter me out the door, but he was serious. He Il bring it it up tome and this this this statement changed my thinking about entrepreneurship andalso changed my thinking about leadership. He said, let me tell youwhy I started this civil rights organization and he told me the storyof of his passion for building something that would shape the worldfor the people he loved and he said brain. If you say you won't,don't want to be a business man, you don't like entrepreneurship at least.Do it because you, the people, you love, deserve an engine for good and I neverforgot it. I immediately, I think the next day went and registered, he ll Ccalled, will burn and- and it was found as a highereducation, think tank and the work that I was doing then was providingconsultancy to college presidents all across the country. So when they callthis silver rights attorney, he would sin he college presidents will callthem. They would send them my way and it provided me with a chance to gaineven more mentors and that were and to provide them with advice to their mostpressing challenges and made a company out of it. We scaled andwe grew. We became a full size, advertising and Communications Agencyas a result, but one of the things that experience taught me what gave me wasaccess to really influential and powerful leaders throughout my entirecareer, and one of the things that I realized is that when the three typesof leaders I mean they are leaders who think about getting things done, and Iwork with those their leaders who get things done for the sake of gettingthings done like we. I've been asked to do this, and I said I would do it. I'mgonna get it done, and then there are leaders who get things done becausethey know that it could change things, that it can change their environmentand change. Their situation could change the world, and I noticed thatthe higher and influence all the...

...leaders I worked with. They thoughtabout execution and leadership with the cervices of urgency, because they knewthe consequences of failure, and so our comfort, my conversations with thoseleaders will often times talk about legacy. They will often talk about. Whyfeel you're in an option and then we're talking about the barriers for thoseleaders to seceding this concept of leaderships sabotage, keep coming upover and over again people defying them corporate abuse people wanting to exactrevenge on them, reputation, assassination credibility assassinationI mean the list goes on and on and on the aft. Even this ingenuous promotions,those happen believe it or not. I had to see you one time tell me if you wantto get rid of an employee. The best way to do it is to give them a promotion,and you know just to give them enough rope to hang themselves and your spineand there's signs that you can point to and and I've been put in the positionthey help leaders at all levels point to those identify those signs and thosebarriers and those saboteurs before they strike them so that they cancontinue to lead effectively and do transformative work. Well. So let'stalk about that all bit, so there's always signs. Some people are better atcatching them than others, but when it comes to being an environment wherethere is that leadership sabotage ward, but make may give birth to that. Whatare some of those really warning signs that leaders should be paying attentionto? There are many, but but I want to correct something that you just saythat that many leaders, some leaders are better than seeing the signs thanothers. I will dare say to you. Few leaders are good we're going to just bring the truth. Weread the truth from now light's why sabotage is able to persist because its, you know those who agents of sabotage or saboteurs. If you want tocall them that are banking on the fact that that you don't know the signs thatyou don't know what they're up to and that's why I persist. I mean there'sdata that shows, at least in my experience, is one out of every threeleaders that I speak with have face leaderships Abatagati one and everythree, and even a few of that. Probably one of a RTERY had the skills needed toto overcome them and some just sure luck song about instinct, but I wrote abook called sabotage leadership that overcomes partreal deft in deceit,because I realized that there was a leadership cap. There was a disciplinedgap that exists a lot of books. You can go to the bookstore right now. Youcould walk up and down the house and you can find all kind of powerfulleadership, books, powerful business books, powerful executive managementbooks and they talk about rising early. They talk about working har, they talkabout all of those things, but I think they there's not enough content if any,there's very few, if any, that prepares that leader who rises early, has visionand wants to work hard to prepare for the spook behind the door waiting totrip them up as they come in. I o'clock in the morning sides that you can look for my book,calls them the four horsemen of sabotage and in my research and even inmy own experiences of being sabotaged, all acts of sabotage, whether they bean active betrayal and active felt, or that the the sea falling to one or fourcategories, and I call each of those categories. You know a horse, men ofsabotage and the four horse middleage are things took that leaders can lookto to see the early science and they are jealousy whenever you encountersomebody who has a Pinchot for the meeting, the gains of others ordiminishing the gains of others...

...verbally, and it may not be to you,then you know that you're dealing with someone who has a pension for being forbeing jealous, and so whenever you see that Horseman Ride Into Your Life,they're things that you can do to fortify your pursuits and yourleadership in your life from the x that are acts of sabotage that are driven ormotivated or field. If you will by jealousy but ye other horsemen isarrogance. You see these leaders, we see these schools and you know arrogance needs nointroduction, it introduces itself, but you know, are arrogant. Folks,arrogance as a horse is a horseman and it rises into rallies and it does servein things. It's different. It does different things than Jealousy Harry,get still, as other undertakes other types of sabotage in our lives. Theother one is lying liars. The people who will have a high penchant for lyingand lying and all of these have levels lying has levels as well. There is,there are people who lie, but the sake of of distraction to get attention offof them to say, Hey, look over there I mean there's another level of lyingwhich is lying to harm others, where you literally throw other people underthe bus when a reckless disregard for the harm that you might do just so thatyou can satisfy your selfish intent and then the last horse mini deduction, andwhenever you see the seducers come in our lives and I'm not talking Romanticsdeduction, even people who are in its all complot of its platonic, they havewell manicured personifications. Will manique reputations and they are alwaysdrissed to the tea, to the dime, to the nine is to be very ambitiously aboutthings, and- and we do that too, as leaders every day, but what makes itjump into the level of seduction is that they utilized that appearance andthat crafted those crafted environment that they wrap themselves around toencourage you to go along often unethical rides. They reallydon't care if the means justify the end and they find great pleasure not on thejourney, but getting you to go to join them in the journey I mean we can do this. We can get awaywith it. It's going to be fun. I be fine, just jump. I T way. Evenyour gas, I'm sure are starting to think about yeah. You know there arepeople in my mist who exhibit some of those behaviors and be able to thinkabout. Where you are. I and think about your leadership is not a matter in thatway. It's not a matter of paranoia is a matter of wisdom, because the morepotent you become as a leader, the more consequential, your leadership. Thatcomes what I mean by that is. You are literally the driving force to provide bettereducation to underserved communities, to Fe Kit, who might be dealing withfood and securities to take a corporation to places that is neverbeing in order to keep the industry relevant for technological changes Imean, and these are real things, and so by letting any of those horsemen stopyou. You are literally letting saboteurs rob those children rob thosecustomers. Rod Lose whoever you're out to impact from the benefits of youreffective leadership. I love it not of it and that actually leads into a intoa great sege you're one of the few...

...people that, when we've prapped, someof the material that I got in advance talked about. Legacy talked aboutshaping a legacy, and I think often times especially in corporate AmericaDay, everybody's looking at the next quarter of the next quarter of the nextquarter. They're, not thinking about the true impact of that word of thethings they're doing now and what that may mean for the future. Somebody evenargue we're seeing that with climate change, but that's a different podcast.So when we, when we talk about shaping that legacy, what does that mean interms of changing the way? A leader approaches? Leadership Inter thebehaviors, were actions that they should be putting into play aphenomenal question, because at the foundation of leadership is legacy andwe don't- I don't. I don't think we start thinking about legacy soon enough.I just don't. There was a leader that helped me really put this into words orher name is Caroline Johnson. She shared it with one of my men or hesated with me is that if we had to define what legacy is it's it's settingemotion, a series of activities that causes our reversible impact? You rely thought about it that way. Inoften when you're thinking about the next quarter of the next quarter thanits quarter, the next sale, the next a or the next sea, you're, literallyplacing the energy that powers. Your leadership into the power of atransaction, but there's so much more you're, leaving on the table likethere's so much more for people who who sail, which is all of us are salespeople an. I think that thinking about the things you're selling as a legacydefining exercise allows you to to do more than just transact money fora rigit, but you literally are able to tie that thing. You're selling, to theway that it will change, lives and communities and that's a whole othervalue proposition and a whole different discourse to have with the prospects,and we don't have that conversation enough, even if you are a middlemanager or early but intreate level, employee. If you can get your leaders,even if you are at that level, to articulate to you why the things thatthey're asking you to do are so incredibly important. Then what you dois you're forcing them to align all of their thinking around legacy orirreversible impact activities. And I I don't think we do that enough and assort of a practical example, there is a leader I'll give you two. There is aleader by the name of Bier Rushton you may or may not haveheard of that leader Biar Rustan, an incredible, probably one of the world'smost potent community organizers. This leader saw a need to a symbol, amassive or mouth people in the mall in DC, and he went and said a we going tohave the largest protest in the s in the mall in Washington DC and we'regoing to assemble all of those people to make sure that our voices are heardwith regard to taking on Jim Crow Laws and promoting integration. He said thisto another leader who is a Philip Randolph. A Philip Randolph was anexecutive leader, an executive letter level leader and established leader. Hesaid to buy yard, or he spoke about what by Ar Rustan was after in adifferent way. He said: No we're not going to we're, not justmerely gettingmillions of people to go to the mall in...

Washington. We are using the mall inWashington as the world's biggest stage to make sure that we have the loudestmegaphone to speak, to congressional leaders about the need to make adifference in the world by making America of the model for integrationthe world over, that s are very two different things. So if you apply thatin a practical sense, then you start to understand like that as a prospect, I'mlistening to a Philip Randolph thinking. How can I join a need to do and he so here, but I havea dream speech and but there those are two different leaders. After the samething, one is really focused on legacy and they speak about it in differentways. Another example is the jobs, Steve Jobs. It was literally justbuilding a computer, but to him he was doing so much more and there's. A greatstory is well documented, John Scully, from Pepsico who's, a transactionalleader- I mean you say, Sale Soda, you get money, you say all Somini like M S,I, like all you, but you say also you get one stem jobs, thought it wassomething noble or so so much something much more noble to pursue and what hewas selling. So they were at art which led to John Scully, essentiallysabotaging Steve Jobs. If Steve Job is in to have the critical skiles thatwe're talking about now for overcoming sabotage or for protecting thisleadership for sups in his life from Samatage, we may never see the iphone.We may never have the mat book pro that we have today and the vision he saw. Healign these activities with providing each of us, the ordinary person, withthe tools necessary to change the way that we engage with the world and howthe world engages with us. I love it. My love as a sales person.If you go into a meeting and say that this device is going to fundamentallychange the way you engage with the world you gotta sail. First, I I want one which a lot of people saidright a lot of things I that all right, so let's change directionhere, a little bit. We ask all of our guests two standard questions towardsthe Indore. The first is simply as a chairman president, CEO and author.That makes you a prospect for a lot of people out there. A lot of people wantto get time on your calendar and when you don't have a trusted referral ansomebody that you know says hey. You should really talk to this person. Ithink they can add value when you don't have that what works for you whensomebody's trying to capture your attention and earn the right to time onyour calendar. I get a lot of pains from folks and you know what, since those who aremost effective apart from from the rest, are those who call me and they expresscare and concern for me: they've understood our business. They understand a little bit about meand they don't it's not about the phone call is not about the product more sothan it is about learning more about about me and my journey with interestand drives to me, and I am like many executive and I will go and record andsay: media executives are open to entertaining and investing time intointo the intellectually curious and...

...that's what we have all theseadministrative assistance, because, if you, if you get to us, we're going tobe quite generous with their time right, curiosity acar in a concern for for howwe are doing what we are achieving and what we desire to do beyond the present.I love it. That's that is great! So last question: We call it ouracceleration insight if you could give one piece of advice, just one to sales,marketing and professional services, people one piece of advice that, ifthey listened, you believe, would help them hit their targets or exceed them.What would that one piece of advice, B, m Y- oh top of my head- easy use yourtime not to sale products, but if they use your time to purchase relationships, that's going to be one of the quotesthey're going to pull out brother, I'm telling you right now. I know I'mmarketing teams going to pull that out. That is very well said, very, very wellsaid all right brandon, if you, if somebody wants to find the book where'sthe best place for us to send them to find that sabotage book. Brandon,Wilson, Co, again, that's Brandon! Wilson! Do So and you can go there. Youcan get the book and hope it's a blessing to each and every one of youas you strive to become more effective leaders. Also at Brandon Wilson, Co.You can reserve fifteen minutes on my schedule and tamp into other leadershipin sights. If there is some challenges or some questions or some things goingon around you that you just don't know how to navigate through go to BrandonWilson. Co Get time on my schedule and I have one of those leaders againgenerous about those who want to unlock more and so go to Brandon Wilson doCota by e Book and gain access to me. I love it brand. I can't thank you enoughfor taking time it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. It'sbeen my pleasure all my pleasure, all right, everybody that does it for thisepisode. You know the drill check it out, O B, to be Revez share withfriends, family co workers leave us to review. If you like what you're hereand until next time we avason associates which war all nothing butthe greatest success you've been listening to the B TobRevenue Executive Experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Itunes for your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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