The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Mastering the Art of Virtual Selling w/ Darrell Amy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This last year brought a lot of changes that range the gambit from internal organizational improvements to reimagining and shifting outbound marketing.

This evolution has fostered a new constant awareness of who we’re selling to and where they spend their time.

It’s crucial that we take what we've learned this past year about virtual selling and continue to develop those skills as we step into the post-COVID “new normal.”

On this episode of B2B Revenue Executive Experience, I talk with Darrell Amy, author of the best-selling book, Revenue Growth Engine: How to Align Sales and Marketing to Accelerate Growth, host of the Revenue Growth Podcast, and co-host of the Selling From the Heart Podcast.

What we talked about:

  • How companies should be adjusting their marketing and sales strategies in the post-COVID economy
  • How to combat “pivot fatigue” and get better at virtual selling.
  • How companies can set aggressive, but realistic revenue goals.
  • What goals should be top of mind for companies in a post-COVID era.

Mentioned on the show:

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.
If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

You're listening to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about how company should be adjusting their marketing and sales strategies in the post covid economy. I know for a lot of us that may not still be a thing of reality, depending on where you live. I know some countries are still struggling, but as we look towards basically being hopefully towards the end of this there's going to be some changes, is going to be some impacts, and so to help us we have with US Darrell Amy, author of the best selling book revenue growth engine, how to allign sales and marketing to accelerate growth. Dale's also the host of the revenue growth podcast and cohost of selling from the heart podcast. Darrell, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Oh Chat, is great to be here and I know we had to reschedule a couple times. I just with the whole audience to hear me say I greatly, greatly appreciate your patients in order to get us to this point. And so before we jump into the topic of the day, we always like to start with just kind of an off the wall question for our guests audience to get to know you a little bit better, and I'm always curious to learn you know something you're passionate about that maybe those who only know you from a work perspective may be surprised to learn. Well, I'm passionate about helping generous companies grow revenue in the reason for that is I'm on the board of two different nonprofits. One of them is called the Kingdom Fund. It funds innovation in missions projects all over the world and kind of like shark tank for just incredible organizations that have brilliant ideas that are smart, sustainable and scalable, and so what I love doing. There's history reason I'm passionate about helping businesses grow, because I've noticed, being on the...

...board of nonprofits, that while every tonation is awesome, the people that can write the checks with the commas are the generous, forward thinking, innovative business owners. So so those things are two parts of my life that are very closely linked. Chad, and is that something you've done, you know, throughout your careers? That's something you came to later in your career? To give me a little more detail on that? Yeah, it was eighteen years ago when that started for me. So I would say probably it was my early early s when I when the idea for that came together. And you know, up until that point I started my career in be tob sales and at about the same time the nonprofit started, also started a marketing agency. So all of this over the last eighteen years I've had one foot squarely in sales, sales development, another foot in marketing, all of the incredible things going on in digital marketing, and that whole time also involved in being on the Board of a nonprofit. And so all of those things work together and inside, I guess the combination of all of that fueled inside me a desire to help generous business leaders really take their business to the next level apply all of the best in class ideas for sales and marketing in order for them to accelerate their growth so they could give more love it love. All right, so let's jump into the topic of the day and then you will be the first official guest where I am using the words post covid. So very excited to have this conversation because for the last year and a half it's just been in covid. So when we think about, you know, this evolving reality, let's call it the next phase for that better term, when you think about what's going to be different and what companies should be aware of, kind of be to be companies coming out of this into this postcovid are what's kind of top of mine for things that you hope companies will keep an eye on as they move forward. One of the first things that I think is really, really critical for companies to be thinking about right now is what are your...

...customers buying? You may be selling the same products today that you sold before the crisis, during the crisis and now, in terms of whatever wherever we are today, depending on where you live, but one of the things that that I discovered and am very passionate about is is this principle buyers don't buy products, they buy the outcomes your products deliver. It reminds me of Theodore Lett. He's the father of modern marketing. It was Harvard Business School professor and he used to walk into his classes on day one of Marketing School, Day One, marketing one hundred and one. He's holding up an electric drill bit and he would say to his class who would say nobody in the history of low's Home Depot, insert hardware store here, ever walked into the hardware store to buy a drill bit. They went to buy the whole and Seth God and would take it a step further and go well, they didn't actually buy the whole, they bought the ability to hang the plaque on the wall to make themselves look good. And and it another one is even fun to your chat another one of my favorite authors, Donald Miller, would say, well, we're all descended from cavemen and we know that if we're not in community we're going to get eaten by a tiger, so we need to hang the plaque on the wall so our friends will accept us and we don't get eaten by a tiger. Here's the deal. It doesn't matter whether you went to the store because you need a hole. You want to hang a plaque on a wall or you're afraid of getting eaten by a tiger. You didn't go to buy the drill bit, you went to buy the outcome. And so when we think of that in the context of what's going on right now and, you know, and be to be, which is is my sweet spot, favorite place when we're selling two companies, we've got to remember that buyers buy the outcome and the product may be the same, but the out come shift it. When covid happened, Gardner did a study right before, right after covid started, that had gardener research said Pre covid companies wanted efficiency, scalability, productivity, all of that. When covid happened we had to...

...shift our message really quickly to redundancy, resiliency, remote work. Now that were in various parts of the world starting to come, you know, into the next phase, whatever that looks like, it is critical as business leaders we have our ear to the ground. We're talking to our clients. Were paying very close attention to what outcomes do our clients and prospects actually have now and the companies that shift their message, sales and marketing and their strategy around that the current outcomes. I believe are going to have a tremendous competitive advantage in this next season well, and it is that shift. I mean those of us that have been in bub sales or marketing for a long time, we've heard this concept right and so the latest version I've seen is, if you're familiar with Sarah Blakeley, the see of Spank, she doesn't master class where she talks about selling the problem. You're selling the problems, right. That's right and that's and it and it seems so simple. Yet we run into countless legions of BEAUTB sales reps and marketing professionals that still want to talk about the solution. They want to talk about the features, they want to talk about the benefits, and I think you're one hundred percent right. As we move into this post covid era, it's going to become even more critical to figure out what it is that they're looking for, because they didn't wake up in the morning and say, Oh hey, I hope company ABC calls me today or gives me an opportunity to buy. It's not what they're thinking about first thing morning. It and this is this is time and you know, we all have zoom fatigue. That I think. The other thing that starting to set in is we have pivot fatigue, right we I mean last spring we all had to pivot really quickly and, by the way, we learned how quickly we could do that. But you know, last spring, if you weren't paying attention, let's say it's last summer, we're in the heart of the pandemic and you weren't paying attention. And let's say from a marketing folks which just will talk about marketing for a minute, it didn't look at your marketing engine, you didn't look at your marketing automation platform and someone,...

...you know, hit your website last summer and downloaded something and then started getting a string of emails that said things like in today's exploding economy, it's more important than ever. You know, and you know how offensive would that have been and how you know? Well, what about? You know, what about six months from now, someone download something from your website? You know, during the covid pandemic? It is, you know, recently important and you know, and you may be in a place where I was going back to work and the message doesn't align, and so this, you know, it was really really critical. I think one of the best things we learned out of this last year is to talk to our customers. Talk to him, listen, pay attention to what they want. And here's the deal. I mean we all want everything to go back to normal, but I think we have to realize we're going back to a new normal and we've got to understand what that is. The people that're going to help us do that are our clients. Talking to them. What are your goals? What are your challenges? And I've always said in when I train salespeople, I believe firmly with all my heart, if you cannot hang your recommendation, your proposal on at least one of a company's top three challenges, you may have the best idea in the world, but it's always going to get put on the back burner of things will get around to someday, because companies should focus their resources, people in money on their biggest challenges. So we got to know what those challenges are and we've got to be messaging to those challenges in our sales conversations, in our marketing message and right now, coming out of Covid you know, you may have pivot fatigue. I get it. I get it. Take a deep breath, take a day off whatever, but get back at it and talk to your clients and go and Change Your Marketing and change yourself your sales message. Otherwise, you know, you you you risk missing out and there's a lot of opportunity. That is there's a wave of...

...opportunity in so many industries right now because of change, and change is good, but don't forget to change your message and change it based on the outcomes your customers are telling you that they want. Absolutely I couldn't agree more. And it's it almost is the I mean the everybody has a shared experience. We all went through this or we're going through the this covid thing and the impacts that it had personally and professionally, and it's really driven home that the evolution or change is just kind of the new constant, the awareness of who you're selling to, in the environment you're selling to, and and I just I keep thinking about that poor person that receives that email six months from now says in the time of Covid and just all of the things that that brings back right, that would be absolutely horrible and it blows your credibility. It does, it just destroys it. So pay attention. This is, you know, I know we had to pivot when we got into this. We got a pivot. Coming out, the world we live in is going to be different and there is going to there are going to be different problems, which means there's going to be different opportunities, and right now is a critical time to have our ears to the ground and then you get to work changing the message so that it's going to resonate absolutely. And when we think about these changes, I mean it's not only changes in our outbound like how do we mark to people, how do we sell people, but there's going to be organizational changes. Some of the some of the team building models and things that people had in the past when everybody was in the same space, is going to be different. So I'm just kind of curious from your perspective. I mean, I know of some companies that are going back to bringing the teams together into offices. I know some of that are going hybrid, I know some that got rid of all of their physical locations during covid kind of what are you seeing and what would you suggest the companies be aware of as they move towards these potentially new, quote unquote, and I am doing air quotes, the new normal for these companies. Well, if I if I'm allowed for some air quotes, I'll put air quotes around the word hybrid.

And this is where, you know, everyone's saying we're moving into a hybrid world, and you're right. I mean we've been living in this right where some people are in the office, summer at home. Companies are shifting around there. You know, my friends in the HR world are talking about the impending great resignation where wheneverone goes back to work, there's gonna be some people get a job with a stayathome type model or company. All that means this. There's can be a lot of shifting going on and there's you know, we talked about the message. Now let's talk about the methodology and in specifically in sales. When I came out of a very facetoface industry, when I started my sales career in the early S, we went office to office, hardcore cold call. You know, don't come back to the office if you hadn't had at least two meetings and demonstrated the product someone. I think that was the that's where I began and and you know, and still even to this day, with all of the the sales development training that I've done across multiple industries, salespeople in and this is starting to change, but until until last year salespeople were saying, well, my my customer wants to be facetoface with me, my prospects want to be facetoface with me. And I knew, because I'd been selling virtually for seventeen years to clients all over North America, Australia, in the UK, that you didn't have to be facetoface. And and we've discovered the clients don't want to be facetoface all the time. It's inconvenient not you know, let's put the germs and all the you know, fear aside that we've dealt with this last year, or just not being in the office. It's inconvenient to have someone come into your office every single time. So we've got to discover, take what we've learned this past year...

...about virtual selling and continue to develop those skills, continue to learn how to build relationship virtually through virtual all kinds of virtual channel, social video and on top of that, in the BETOB space. We also have to realize that something else shifted the in a direction during during the pandemic, and that is buying teams that I've seen are getting bigger, which she's like buying teams get any bigger? I was so funny. You know, Challenger customer really like Brian Adamson and Matt Dixon. I think they did great work when they wrote that coming out of the the last big crisis in Noeud and nine. And in the Challenger customer they cite research that says they're an average of six point seven decision makers and influencers and the average be to be transaction. And it was actually funny. I was on a power lunch live about it six eight months ago and I quoted that stat and I said I know in talking to brant that that number is a little bit higher. What was actually cool was he was watching the podcast and he said Yeah, it's actually eleven. It was kind of cool streamed across the bottom of the screen. I love this virtual world we're in. Le Brin Adams since here. How Fun. But here's the deal. Whether it's six point seven, whether it's eleven. However, in every one of your accounts, I think is be to be sales and marketing professionals. We have to realize that our job is not just to get in the door with one person. Our job is to win the hearts of the entire buying team. And so what's good about what's good about virtual, what's good about this hybrid world, is it would be nearly impossible to have a facetoface meeting with twelve people, as in individuals, inside a sales...

...process. I'm just time efficiencies and and all of that, and not all those people would you know if they're they wouldn't necessarily want to have a meeting with you face to face. But you can interact with them digitally and you can communicate through digital channels, social channels, you can use video, you can jump on a quick zoom meeting and have a Digital Cup of coffee and all these things that we learned to do this last year as sales professionals. We now have new abilities to influence the buying team, and I say the person that understands the outcomes and then is able to influence the buying team is going to be the person that wins the deal and so this, you know, this combination of of value and relationship is is the mix. And on the selling from the heart podcast, this is what what we're talking about. My podcast partner Larry Levino, was just helping him put together as keynote for the outbound conference coming up. And you know, we're talking about the heart and this is authentic relationship plus authentic value. And I know you're a value guy. When you take the value and you combine that with the relationship, you get, you know, you get the competence, but you also get the the the connection with that. And now we've got, you know, opportunities, as we've learned and started mastering the art of virtual selling, to look across that buying team and we have multiple ways to make those personal connections with different people in the buying team now in that buying team as symbols to make the quote unquote decision. It should be a scenario where everyone on that buying team knows the salesperson and possibly other people inside the organization. We have the opportunity to do that now in ways we didn't really think we did before. So I challenge reps to especially in be to be which are complex sales...

...environments. In many cases, use what you've learned this past year to build relationships across the entire buying team. Absolutely, and that it's funny that that you quote of those those stats. I when people hear those, I see their eyes get bigger because they all start to think about if there are sales rep wow, I only have one contact in this deal and I'm running single thread of deals. No wonder my wind rings not as awesome as it should be. Okn't I didn't even think about that before. It's amazing. So this is, you know, this is that I think there's two dimensions to this, because I'm I'm a sales rap. I was jokemor recovering sales rap. I'm down to therapy twice a month. But you know, I started hardcore in the office equipment industry. So it was I mean we were it was competitive, but it was fun. But what I think there's two dimensions here to this. You know, when you look at the buying team, there's there's a dimension of of how many people do you know? And there's the dimension of do you understand the outcomes each one of those decision makers personally wants? And so this is an area of training. I love that you're about business acumen, Chad. When I look at that, that just makes my heart sing because I think the biggest area for improvement in be tob sales and marketing is deeper understanding of business. You know, I need business people who can sell, not technical people who can sell any people who understand business. And this is where, when you look across that buying team now you look at that second dimension of do I know this person? And then the other thing is, do I know what's important to them? Do I understand the outcomes that the finance decision makers want, the technical decision makers that you know, hr person or whoever is on your buying team and is influencing that? Do I understand the outcomes? And you know there's some high level company outcomes that the company wants, but you need to know everybody thinks about it...

...differently and the more we can educate ourselves and educate our sales teams in business, just pure business. What's important? How does business work? What are people thinking? We're talking about the great resignation. What is that at mean to business? What does that mean to their PNL? What does that mean to their strategy? These are all all areas whereas we home those skills, and I think I'm preaching to the choir here, but the more you hone those skills, the better conversations you're able to have, the more value are able to establish. You get that value also lined up with relationship, that connection, and you've created unstoppable competitive advantage. Oh absolutely. And it's that personal you know, you go back to that personal connection. Being able to pull that off in virtual is a skill set, but it starts by building the trust, credibility and rapport which comes from the business acumen of being able to demonstrate you understand the environment, that the individual you're talking to is working with them, that you understand their world and you're not here to just say hey, I've got this widget, you need this widget. It's more about, Hey, I understand where you're at, I understand what your business is doing. We did the research, we understand you. Know what your goals are and how you're trying to impact them. If you're having a conversation, focus around them, moving into that personal conversation, that personal connection becomes easier, but it does require focus, it requires being deliberate. It doesn't just happen automatically, and so it's going to be interesting as we continue down this road, see how many people are able to actually make that shift or be part of that, which I think called the great resignations. Be Part of that, which is a great term, by the way. I never I hadn't heard that one before. So when you're we're talking about companies coming out of this, you've mentioned in the past who setting aggressive but realistic goals post covid and now aggressive but realistic is, you know, it's a very pretty...

...standard phrase, but I think it takes on a different life of its own considering what we've just gone through and where we're headed. So we'd love to kind of get your take and what company should be, you know, folks, on what that means in the in the quote unquote new normal as we move forward. Well, setting goals has always been a challenge. I'm talking about Revenue Goals here, whether your company, whether you're a sales leader or your individual sales rep with a territory that setting goals. It's kind of funny. I summarized it in revenue growth engine where, you know, I basically said there's two core methods. Companies used to set goals. One is the Spaghetti on the wall method, which we can all laugh at, but you you would be maybe surprised, or maybe not, at how many companies just kind of go hey, here, I think we can do this, Bil do you think you can take this much of the quota? You know, they go and it's just you know, and that company gets halfway through the year they're not hitting the number and and everyone goes, well, I want a realistic goal in the first place. Correct. The other way the companies set goals that are a little more conservative and realistic, is the ruler method. You look at what you did over your growth trajectory for the last two, three four years and go we've been growing at x percent. Let's do that again this year. Great Conservative way to do things. The problem is covid just happened. So a lot of companies had a really rough year in the rulers now pointed in the wrong direction. Right, if that was you, or maybe you were selling personal protective gear, plexiglass and you just had a banner or plywood and you just had a banner year, you know now the rulers pointed in unrealistic directions. How do you set realistic goals, aggressive but realistic. I think you drill down one level, chat and you look at what are the two drivers of growth and if you think about it at that is most simple level, there's only two ways to grow revenue. We get net new customers or we cross sell more to our current customers. We land and we expand. We get market share and we get wallet share, however you want to say it. But but here's the deal. Now you go, okay, well, Darrell, what does this have to do is...

...setting goals. Here's how you do it. You Go, okay, net new. How many customers do we have right now? That's a number you know, and if it needs to be around number, that's fine. How many customers do you have right now? How many customers do you think you could get in the next twelve months, twenty four months, thirty six months? Like we have a thousand now, could we get one hundred if we have, you know, whatever, whatever that number is. A use round numbers here on this podcasts. Keep it simple, okay. That's your net new growth. Right number of customers cross cell revenue. This is the measure of wallet share, and the measure there is really simple. It's revenue per customer. So you take your total and your revenue, you divide it by the number of customers, which it just figured it out, and now you know your revenue per customer. So let's say your revenue per customer is a thousand dollars per year. Once again, round number right. Then you go okay, well, if we got strategic about cross selling all of our products and services, what I like to call a hundred percent sold, if if we got customers a hundred percent sold into all of our products and services, what what could we do? What goal could we set for a revenue per customer? Could we get that up to one hundred dollars per customer instead of a thousand? So now you're having discussions about really tangible things. How many customers do we have right now? How many more could we get? What's our revenue per customer right now? And if we got strategic, what could we grow our revenue per customer to? Now you do the math. You add those two numbers together and now you got your goal. And, by the way, if you're listening in going how did that work? Just text the word revenue to twenty one thou. That's revenue to twenty one tho. Have actually got a simple spreadsheet in our tool kid. You can download and do that math if you're a spreadsheet kind of folks, but you can do this on a Napkin. How many customers do we have right now? What can we get? What's our revenue per customer? How much could we grow that? Add those together and now you've got a goal and it's going to be realistic because it's based on not Spaghetti. It's not based on, you...

...know, just the ruler. It's based on like getting down into the two drivers. It's setting ten engible goals and you'll also find out that that goal is aggressive. Chat. If you can grow net new and cross cell at twelve percent a year, you know sis like marginal improvement in net new and cross cell. Twelve percent a year gains in each one of those simultaneously doubles revenue and around thirty six months it's like, you know, it's amazing. The problem is most companies are good at one or the other. So you got to get good at both and then you can really start scaling. Absolutely all right. So let's Change Direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests to standard questions towards the end of each interview. The first is simply your revenue executive, which makes you a prospect for people out there selling, and so I'm always curious when somebody doesn't have that trusted referral into you. What works for you when they're trying to capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar for a conversation, they need to be addressing a problem and I you know, it's just so funny because I was just thinking about this right before we got on the air here today. This is a personal problem. I have to this isn't be to be. This is BTC. My wife is complaining that our Wifi doesn't work in our house. You know, there's certain dead spots in the house. So for some reason I've been designated the technical support expert for our home. I'm sure many people listening and can identify. And so I get a barrage of emails all day long and fortunately I have a executive assistant that shields me from most of them. But right before this I was actually looking for a specific email and I saw that just this email about Wi fi in your home and I clicked on that and I'm now investigating buying a Mesh Wi fi system on jen six Wifi. That is going to solve my problem. It got my attention because that is what I was looking for right now, because I got someone mad at me. It is so bad. You know, you got to think.

Okay, this disc goes back to the outcomes, right if you want to get through the filter, and everyone's got a great filter, you better be talking about something that's important to them right now. So get inside, talk to your customers, listen to him, pay attention to what's going on in their industry and make sure that, whether you're in sales making calls outbound, or whether you're in marketing, creating content, the headline, the lead line, all of that, it better have something to do with that person's top level business problem. Not a nice to have. I'm talking about a real, tangible business problem. Otherwise it's not going to get through their filter. But Hey, cats off to the to the company. I don't have the email in front of me, but it was. It was geared at a guy who's significant other was complaining about the Wi fi quality in the house. That I got my attention and I'm about to drop I think, three hundred bucks on a new Wi Fi router. So anything to solve the problem right. So yeah, I think that's that is what I would say is is your best bet ter be relevant and if not, you're stuck in the filter. It would never you know, if you think about the executive, and I mentioned earlier, I have an executive assistant that that manages my schedule and email. She's not going to send anything through to me that's not related to my top level concerns, but the stuff that does make it through to my inbox to process, she knows what our company goals are, she knows what our challenges are, and so she's got her eye open for that. And this is what executives do right. They have buffers around them to filter out the noise so they can stay focused on the things that are important. So you better be leading with something that's important to the executive and it better be specific, like, don't be you know, we help companies develop more efficiency and productivity. You know that's bullcrap. No one listens to that. Be Specific. You know, wife angry about your WIFI clearer. Right, that's pretty spot on. And get them that good. If if you said...

...that too close to your TV or your phone. I'm sure it's going to show up you. I that's great. That's probably ways, probably exactly what happened, Chad. All right, it's a last question. We call it our acceleration inside. If there's one thing you could tell sales marketing people to be more effective, one piece of advice should give them that you believe would help them hit their targets, what would it be? And why? Process, or, for my fellow Canadian friends, process but process. Here's the deal. Business runs on process. You boy bill a business down to its most basic level. You Got People in processes. The the problem is when you go in most sales departments, it's like the wild west. We literally you got a couple gun slingers flipping coins outside the Salin you get your rainmakers and you know, and tumble weeds are blowing by and the sales leaders, like y'all, go make some more calls, prospect harder, you know, and that's all great, but what we need is processes and marketing people don't get off the hook either, because in marketing we tend to run some campaigns, you know, do some mad words, do an events to Webin. Are All great things, but what's what are the processes, and this is where, you know, when we think about building a revenue growth engine, I think the processes we have in place, or kind of like cylinders in an engine. And I like to mow my lawn, which is kind of strange, but hey, no one can call me when I'm while I'm on my lawnmower driving around, and I listened to great podcasts like the B to be and so what's great? I know it's the other day I'm driving my lawn more, as is actually what was an inspiration for the revenue growth engine book. My lawn more has an engine. It happens to be two cylinders and twenty four point five horse power, and I'm puttering across my lawn and I'm looking in my driveway and I see my car. It has an engine. It happens to have eight cylinders that are finely tuned to deliver four hundred and twenty horse powers, horse power, and that's when I realized every company has an engine. The question is how many cylinders are in your engine, and those cylinders are the your sales and marketing processes. The more do you...

...can get those in place and consistently execute on them, the faster. You're going to accelerate your revenue growth. Excellent. Dare, if listeners interested, and take a talking more about the topics we touched on today. Is there specific place you want us to send them? Website Linkedin? What's best? Yeah, I'd love for you to visit our tool kit. Can also get a free copy of the revenue growth engine book if you'll chip in for shipping and handling. Just got a revenue growth engine dotnet or text the word revenue to twenty Onezero. That's the word revenue to twenty Onezero and we'll hook you up with some tools to help you grow. All right, man, I can't thank you enough for taking time. It's been amazing having you on the show. I'll thanks chat to love what you're about in this has been a total blast and you got to do me a favorite. Tell Larry I said high because he was on. He was a guest right before selling from the heart came out. So I'm glad to see the success that he's achieving with that and that you're helping him with. So please pass along my best wishes to him. All right, everybody that does it for this episode, you know the drill. Check it out up be to be REV exactcom sure with friends, family co workers. If you like what you hear, do his favorite. Leave US review on itunes. Till next time. We have value selling associates. With you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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