The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 months ago

Breaking Down Generational Differences in Sales w/ Joseph Fung

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Joseph Fung, CEO of Uvaro and host of "The Seller's Journey' Podcast, chats with Chad about the generational differences we're seeing in sales, the new challenges companies are facing, and how it relates to:

  • Societal changes (and advising teams and organizations on how to adapt)
  • A company’s core values
  • Understanding a foundation of accountability
  • Selling in a virtual environment
  • Equalization of talent

OPTIONAL: Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

If you want to dive deeper into the discussion, find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher.

You're, listening to the Bob RevenueExecutive Experience, a podcast dedicated to help an executives traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three two one: welcome every one to theB to be revenue executive experience. I'm your host Chat Sanderson todaywe're talking about how generational differences are affecting salesprofessionals and doing a deeper dive on entrepen success, as well as thelargest challenges that these new companies face. So it's a lot of heavytopics today, but we're going to be guided through this by Joseph Fung, Coof Vivara and host of the Sellers Journey podcast Joseph thank you fortaking time and welcome to the show extra. Having me chat. This is going tobe such a fun conversation. It's a topic, that's dear to my heart, so I'mlooking forward to digging in excellent excellent. So we always like to startwith in a kind of an off the walk question, so our audience can get toknow you a little bit better, and that is you know, hey everybody probably hasa perception of you from your work life. Your digital profiles, things like that,but I'm always curious to know what something you're passionate about that.Those who only know you from that work angle may be surprised to learn. So some of my work colleagues know thisalready, but I'm really passionate about electronic music. On the side, Iproduced some electronic music. It's completely embarrassingly poor quality,but it's a lot of fun and it keeps me be staying in healthy, other sideawesome. How did you get into that? I mean I've. Always loved electronicmusic and music has always been a part of my life growing up from pianolessons as a kid jazz bands in high school and I'm a programmer by trainingand so getting a chance to merge the music and the development. Is it's justa delight, perfect, all right. So, let's jump into the topic of the day,and it's a big one and it's I I've actually seen it coming up in many ofthe conversations or workshops that...

I've been doing with clients. Is thisconcept of the generational differences that we're seeing in sales and and thechanges that are necessary like so if in order I'm a kind of macrea micro guy?So when we start to think about the generations that we're dealing with ina sales environment today would love to get your perspective on just how youdescribe them. Describe the differences, maybe in a powerful and accessible way,something concise. That will give everybody some context totally. I meanthe big one is when we talk about it, there's really two sizes to it. There'sthe buyer side in the cell side on the cellar side, we hear it all the timepeople say hey, you know, am I too old to get into tech, or you know I've beenin this industry forever. How can I switch over and the really big thingthat I emphasize and our team does and we see successful- is that thatexperience, the generational differences translates into industryand buyer experience so that the really good example theres? I was talking tothe head of sales they sell to during platform. So they help. You know,schools, tutors trainers, find customers anywhere and they have agreat sales. Trup young guys super high energy really really active, but he'snot a parent. He hasn't had to find tutors for his kids. He has an had astruggle with like work from home study at home, home schooling and it's ajourney for him to learn how to work with those buyers, and so we talk aboutGeneral Ation Al differences in sales. It's not teaching old dogs, new tricksor you know Young- is hungry. It's it's really about how much industry orindustry and then lived experience is necessary and that's really what weemphasize, and I like that we're not you know going to the typical. You know:boomer, Gen, millennial, Gena kind of thing right. It's I. If you look atkind of how the both sides of that journey have changed, my experience hasbeen. It really mirrors the societal change that we're seeing. So it's anincrease in authenticity and increase in respect showing somebody you've donetheir hope. You've done your homework. You know how to look at the worldthrough their eyes, maybe a little bit...

...more effectively. What problems arethey facing? That's different than a you know. If we go back to what I wouldconsider more of a true relational sale like we trust this guy, we have hamover for dinner and that kind of thing- and it's definitely a spectrum, and Ithink, to your point- changes based on the industry you're selling into andwhat you're selling, because of that industry may be a little bit furtherahead or a little bit further behind. Is that seem like a fair assessment? Oh,a hundred percent, a hundred percent- and I love that you called out that Ididn't answer with the labels, because we see this opportunity y say: Hey you,don't, let's think about the buyer side: Hey I'm going to sell it to to boomersor Jex or genly. You get this very confrontation, Al Perception and as aseller that doesn't help you at all. Can you imagine hopping on to a salescall and like wrapping it up with an okay boomer? No, it cause Tif. We want to make a really a reallyrelevant example. That idea of I it relates to societal changes. Let's takea look at really, you can't see my finger scare quotes, boring industryI'll, say we're selling into HR, and you know there was a generationalchange in H, r tools and software practices, and so yes, someone who hasbeen in hr before who, maybe is you know a boomer or a Gagen, or they beenin that industry for a while may have bought legacy, Pay Role, N, hr softwareand in that space a systems change is the most miserable thing ever like. Ifyou ask someone hey, would you rather change your payroll software or drivinga car with five kids from Minneapolis Orlando they're, going to pick the cardrive every time, but on flip side, someone who's been inthe industry, you for a shorter period is maybe only purchased pay roll orhour. Software in the last couple of years might have thought a more recentplatform and those platforms integrate really well. They switch really well,and so the idea of buying something more experimental where the cost ofswitching is lower. Yeah, that's less...

...threatening, they're buying it. Youknow more, like marketing, might have bought stuff so yeah if you're settlingto someone in that HR space. It's not about you know, generation, you knowXiz it's about what was their lived work experience and if you train yoursales team to think about what was the lived experience of the buyer and meetthem where they're at you'll sell cross generation ally way easier than anyoneelse? Absolutely absolutely so now the awareness part of it the mind set andthe awareness that I think is required of sales professionals has definitelyincreased. I think would say, probably increased in all industries for thatinclusive. You know inclusion and being diverse and understanding that nobodyhas any right to judge anybody else and we need to be living in a mind set ofrespect. Those are kind of high level concepts when I think about it, butthen there's this comet, this question of how do we make those real fororganizations that want to scale? So when it comes to a start up who's, youknow finally getting the point where they're going to have to actually puttogether some outbound type of or Ortam type of sale. How do you adviseorganizations in a way that will allow them to consistently advise or developtheir teams to have this awareness and understand the subtlety of the change?That's happened in the sales profession. It totally. I mean the two things Iwould point to the first. One is talk about it like talk about that idea ofempty it en, even if you've got a IMOGENES team, it's you hired a bunchof college athletes who came out and figured out how to sell, and so theyare all in the same team. In the same, if you talk about empathy, meaning thebuyers, whether at that's going to help a lot so start with that, the secondthing, though, is the actual composition of your team, makes a bigdifference, and I spend a lot of time with startups founder CEOS, and the bigthing I asked them to remember is don't think about culture fit think aboutculture ad. So you probably documented...

...your values documented your culture orin your head. You know what you wanted to be when you go out and yourinterviewing yet cover the basics. A can you use the CR, do you not a self?Can you can you objection handle, but then also ask not? How does this personfit our culture, but what are they going to bring to our culture? Like agood example, one of our sales raps is a strict observer of Romotane and andthey're starting to fast, and that makes it really tough to maintain yourenergy through the day and if you simply took a culture fit perspectivelike hey you can someone keep a high level of energy all the time they mightnot make the cut on that interview, but at the same time, this individuals muchmuch more sensitive to those cultural and faith base. adherences he's verysauceboat super stifle and is consistently at the top of our leaderboard as a result, and so challenging yourself as a head of sales or afounder to add to your culture. All the time is a tough piece of honrable Pie,but makes it a big difference. Oh it's a huge difference. It's Da, I mean it'sa huge difference and he and you bring up a really good point and somethingyou said. You know many companies will document, here's our values, here's ourmission statement and those guiding lights, I think, are important. I justlisten to the secret sauce podcast about Air BandB and their tag line. Being belong anywhere right and I that's cool, I getthat and I think that gives everybody nice context, but the way eachindividual in an organization interprets that is going to bedifferent. What does that mean to them? So I wonder: Have you ever seen anorganization where they've come up with the values and the and the approach andthe mission statement were a vision of their culture where it's actuallybackfired on them, because it has become it's become kind of confining insome sense? Oh, it's funny. I don't think I'd point anything where I'd sayit's back fired, because even even the most contentious value statements canbe leverage in the right way. Like like I long to an example, you look atAmazons leadership principles. It's a great filtering mechanism, because youknow if you want to be there or not,...

...and in one of their leadershipprinciples. His leaders are right, a lot which really that sets up a certainexpectation for what the management culture is like in the leadershipcultures like and like we both chuckle, because we can both see how that willbe misinterpreted but like clearly it's working for them. What I would point to,though, as mistakes is very often founders and leaders, frame theircultural values or lessons from their Lens. I sold my last cup of did in netsweet and great great company. In so many ways their company was the type ofcompany. Wares was growing up to be a couple of other values, though you knowone that stuck out with skate where the puck is going well. Well, that assumesyou. You know what what hockey is a d and how that goes. Another one thatreally stuck out was the idea of we take the hill and it's funny because Ihired so many people who never heard the phrase take the hill and you thinkabout that. The military connotations, the combat connotations that sense ofthe hero- and you know we had folks who were amazing employees. You know hecame from you, know Nordeck countries or came from Europe or came from Africaand ask him hey what do you think this value means and like well? Well, hillsare challenging and their steep. So so I guess, if we fall back down the hill,we climb up again totally valid, but clearly the company values were aconfusing thing and then environment. So you have to be really vigilant. Youcan't just take it for granted that writing it down, gets the messageacross Gotcha, and so when you, when you thinkof the actual having to put this into practice right in the sales, there's alot of things that sales professionals have to do today. I honestly believejust day at the top of their game first or four Monts, they have to constantlybe feeding their head. They can't live in a bell jar. Any more. Although Imean I guess, that's a totally different podcast, but we could argue.Social media creates a bell jar and, but anyway, in terms of the things thatpeople have to do and getting them, you...

...know to execute. How do you help youknow values and that kind of stuff, set's kind of the North Star? How doyou help organizations understand kind of the foundation of accountability?Performance Base Culture? You know, how are you working with the sales leadersand these start ups to set the foundation so that they can have thesuccess in the time frames that they want? Yeah, I mean a large part of it.Comes down to the actions that you have. Your managers do, because your reps aregoing to emulate them and use those as the the kind of guiding light, not justwhat you write down on paper or stick on the wall, but what you have them doday to day to two big things to big things. I encourage sales managers andleaders to do first off recognize people when they're living those values.If sales leaders we recognize people when they close deals, you know theyclose challenging deals. They hit quote the we do that you don't have to advisemanagers to do it, they'll just do it, but recognizing people when they livethe values. That's really important, like like one of our values, is honestyand to us we talk about being honest, is not just don't lie but be completein your truth. If you disagree with the direction bring it up, so we know we'lllearn we'll do better. We encourage our managers to spot those hey if someone'sgiving uncomfortable feedback you're telling an uncomfortable truth, call itout recognize them share. That is that's how people know that that's thebehavior to emulate. So that's the first thing. The second thing- and thishopefully is nothing new to the sales. Letters or listening is car vote timefor practice. You know half day a week, a couple hours twice a week forpracticing your role player, your cold, calling objection, handling listeningto calls together, supporting that pure coaching and doing it collaborative Ly,and that, like you, said, feed the brain you have if to institutionalizedit, because if you don't, it doesn't happen. Absolutely absolutely so, whenyou think of I mean we've all you know what I'll come, hopefully coming to theend of this lovely pandemic that we've been dealing with. I'm curious ifyou've seen any changes in the ways you feel like startups have to approachtheir entreprenante their scaling. It...

...is there a change. Now, we've seen somecompanies that have you know, I mean just exploded. Any of the commercecompanies exploded because everybody was stuck at home and we were allordering stuff right, but is there any change you've seen that you think isgoing to be one that will go beyond kind of, hopefully the tale of thispandemic that you would highlight for anybody who's listening, oh for sure Imean the big depending on your industry. It's obvious or it's a surprise andthat's the the geographic diversity of sales teams is exploding, so we crawljob boars to see what open sales jobs there are. That's how we help our ourgrads ov, our Grad land jobs as well out of a hundred and twenty fourthousand open sales jobs right now. Fifty five per cent of them are lookingfor rode hires, that's a powerful number. That means you're selling,remotely you're competing with people across you know the the continent,that's a new reality. That's tough in the workplace. That means you're goingto have the they'll, be some teams who go back. Just to that boiler room openfloor, there's going to be some who are just entirely remote, but the majorityare going to have a hybrid where you've got that floor, where, yes, you couldsit calling besides somebody selling besides someone, but a large part ofyour work force is going to be remote hotel or just never on sight and that'sa difference. That means you have to be more pro active as a seller to buildyour relationship in your team. You have more autonomy and accountabilitylike it can be hard to be a remote employer. You're not used to it,especially if your partners, a remote employee to and they're on the phonejust across the room. So it's that idea of your team being disperse is the newnorm. Not that offices will be empty, but you will have remote teams and yougot to be comfortable with that. So when we think about all of thesechanges that people have to deal with there's another one that that is, Ithink, impacting the way he would be connected and that's this virtualenvironment that everybody's in I'm hearing a lot of people talk about. Idon't know how to engage in Aversa Oran. I don't know how to sell effectively ina virtual environment. Is this...

...something you're seeing and hearingteam struggle with as well? All the time I mean we run a program that helpsales professionals cell using promote technology. So, yes, we do see it allthe time. The part, that's really surprised me and I suppose, with thethe fortunate beneficiary of this trend, is, were seeing a lot of industriesthat historically weren't remote selling. Switching to it good example,we had one solar company that we're working with. They used to go door todoor, look at buildings that had big roofs and then go and hock on the doorand then because of the panamic. They can't do that anymore, so they're,looking for people who can use you know, zoom use vigard use all of these rumolttelling tools, so I think we'll see more and more companies that previouslyissued technology being forced to adopt it and and that's exciting, for salesof sore looking and learn new things and keep their skill shop awesome. Ifyou were to think about kind of what's going to happen, I mean I don't nobodylikes to make predictions anymore, because we never know what's around thecorner. But when you think about what the trends are that you're seeing is wemove through two thousand and twenty one? I can't believe we're already intoQ to moving towards two thousand and twenty two. What of the biggest trendseither for sales professions were startups, that you would want them tokeep an eye on or be prepared for that? Maybe the current pandemic typesituation is keeping them distracted from absolutely the Big One is kind ofan equalization of talent. Over the last few years we saw a lot ofdisparity, regional disparity in the the caliber of sales talent. You seeareas that had you know really great well recognized firms like cannon orareas that had you know a high density of startups, like the San Franciscoarea, build a lot of high velocity very experienced, be to be talent and othergeographies. You know suffer from that because of all the remote work andbecause of the number of teams that are letting their own employees move remoteand relocate were seeing this huge...

...diaspora of sales, talent and also ahuge equalization of companies, and that's interesting both from acompensation perspective, because we'll see more equalization of that, but alsoa little bit scary from a talent, competition perspective, because nowyou're not just competing with your neighbors you're competing across thecountry, absolutely all right, perfect. So what change direction here a littlebit, I ask all of our guys kind of two standard questions towards the end ofeach interview. The first is simply as a revenue exact. That means yourprospect, a lot of people out there and I'm always curious when somebodydoesn't have that referral into you that trusted reference or hey. Youreally should talk to this person. How does somebody effectively for youpersonally capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar?The Big One is anchoring on on something that I publicly said. I careabout. This shouldn't be a surprise to sales professionals, but you knowcalling up somebody with the CEO title and just assuming you know what theycare about is is a quick way to to get your email tossed into the Jon folder.But we make public comments all the time about what we focus on, whetherit's personal like a electronic, music or professional post, about what we'rehiring for what we're working on. And if you anchor on that new leverage thatit's clear, you're listening to me and you know what my business is about andthat that gets you that first call absolutely love it. Okay and lastquestion: We call it our acceleration in sight. There was just one thing: onepiece of advice: You could tell sales professionals that you believe if theyadhered to her, listen to would help them achieve or exceed their targets.What would it be and why totally you've got it ad? A metric that you're,probably not tracking, you're, probably already tracking time to close, but youneed to start tracking time to lose and get that number shore as possible. Golove that yeah every rap has crappy deals that are sitting in theirpipeline, that they hope against hopeful clothes, and you got to getthose out stop wasting time so get it to close lost as soon as you can andkeep your pipe line lean and clean a...

...perfect Joseph is if a listenersinterested in touch and base it. You talking more about these topics thatwe've touched on today. Where do you want us to send them to linked INS ofspecific website? where, where do you want us to direct them totally, I meanthey can always have our website. UVAR? U V, a R O com and we're on most socialmedia platforms as you orow life, and it can also hit me up I'm on linked inat Josafa perfect. Just I can't thank you enough for being on the show. Todayit's been an absolute pleasure, my pleasure CID. This was such a great cat.Thanks for having me all right, everybody that does it for this episode,you know the drill be to be revizor share with friends, Family Co, workers,writers, review an I tunes. If you like what you hear until next time, we haveValeeng associates which were all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the B TobRevenue Executive Experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show in Iton or your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening until next time. I.

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