The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 9 months ago

How to Land Your Company on the First Page of Search w/ Chris Dickey


You have a great product. You know who your audience is and how to help them solve their problems. Now you just need to get in front of them. You need brand saturation — and these days, that means getting into Google’s top 5 search results.

To help you learn how to do that, in the latest episode I sat down with Chris Dickey, Founder and CEO of Visably, a company focused on helping organizations manage their brand visibility in search.

What we talked about:

  • Why organic search traffic is the key to brand strategy
  • The challenge of unseating large brands like Amazon in search (and how to get around it)
  • Why brand is built by every team in your organization

Once you figure out how to land your company that top search position, are you ready to dive into how AI is revolutionizing content marketing or how to get the most out of your CRM? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

You're listening to the BB revenue executiveexperience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams tooptimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources,you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm yourhost, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about brand saturation strategies. How doyou lade your company on the first page of search results? Can these beapplied to individuals and sales or marketers building a brand, and how might yoube able to leverage reviews to drive that brand recognition? To help us,we have with US Chris Dicky, founder and seeo visibly, a company focusedon aiding companies to manage their brand of visibility and search. Chris, thankyou for taking the time and welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Job All right. So, for those that are tuning in, I'lldo going to give you a little bit of a heads up. We're usinga new platform, Riverside DOT FM, that my production team at sweet fishmedia has convinced me. I know how to use and can be effective with. So any screw ups are not my fault. I'm just going to putthat at sweet fish store give them, hopefully, an opportunity to step upand if not, you know, hey, don't, don't jump into new techin the middle of a pandemic. So, Chris, before we getstarted, I always like to know now for our audience, you're in wewere talking about this before started. You're in Jackson Haw Wyoming, which isprobably one of the most beautiful places on the planet my opinion. So Ithink I might have an idea of what this hands will be. But alwayslike to know something that you are passionate about outside of work that those whoknow you largely from work or from your digital brand may be surprised to learn. Yeah, well, lots of things I'm passionate about. You are probablycorrected assuming that I enjoy the mountains. That's what we have here. Wehave really big ones. My favorite, my favorite place to be. WhatI'm on the office is, you know, is up in those mountains. Isee I've skied actually most of the peaks. The tetons have also climbedmost of the peaks in the Teaton so wow, summer, when it doesn'tmatter to me. Nice. The tetons are impressive effect. I have apicture of we wrote our motorcycle crew us went through a motorcycles and took picturesof from the teats. They're very jagged. I look very Jagga. So howthe hell do you climb autom of them? They just well, it'sjust walk up them, you know, it's like ropes involved. But yeah, all right, all right, very cool. Yeah, I'm that's onething I've never been, I think, comfortable enough to do is strap myselfto ropes and climb a rock. I don't think it's because I think I'llfall. Yeah, I don't know, it's just it's one of those times. Have a rope. Yeah, maybe it's my natural skepticism about the qualityof the only one rule to to a climbing and that is don't fall.Is To is to make sure that you know in case you break rule numberone. But the only don't fall in love it. All right, perfect. So, all right, let's talk about building brand strategies, and thisis has become, continues to evolve into a pretty complex topic, given themyriad of digital properties and outlets and avenues it's become more than just sitting arounda room going hey, if our company was going to be a car,what kind of car would it be? I've sat back in the day,sat through those brand conversations. So for those that may not, you know, have a full understanding of the context of everything that goes into it.What should a company when they think about the brand strategy, what all goesinto that? What should they be considering? Oh my God, we'll start witha big question like that. Yeah, you know, I think you knowI've played roles in all different pieces of kind of bread brand strategy.I I think that there's a lot of energy put into the creative side ofit and that is cheer point. What kind of car are we is alot less strategy, or at least it's more challenging to do the distribution sideof it. How do we actually reach a consumer? How do we getthem to click? How do we get...

...that conversion? There is the Ithink, fortunately, that's that's where all of the technology is kind of goingin the MARTEX space. Is How do we actually is solicit that stuff?But it's just less fun to work on then branding. Absolutely, but Ithink that's that is ultimately where you know where the rubber hits the road forevery single brand is getting in front of the right customer. Okay, andso you hit on a really important topic, the least fun or less fun sideof it. Right. So, back in the day, I canremember, because I've spent the first part of my career in marketing, Iremember Seo. To say there's up pay in the butt was a little bitof an understatement, right. But now it seems like showing up first onthose search result pages it's almost like black magic, right. It's almost there'sso much that goes into it that I think for many people it's overwhelming.I know as an individual running a company it sometimes short circuits my brain.And so anyway you can provide some context of what goes on under the coversto generate those search rankings and what is it that the people have to beaware of in terms of how their prioritize, how they're listed, things that justthey have to understand from a contextual standpoint. Yeah, so, youknow, just just to kind of set the table here, we're talking aboutsearch engine marketing. The reason why I love search and the way, thatreason, I'm involved in searches, because search delivers this incredibly the high qualitycustomer over and over and over and over again. There's people, adults onaverage use Google three times a day. It's an incredibly central piece to ourlives. We have incredibly predictable click behavior if we don't know where what we'relooking for. So I like a couple of non branded searches or or informationalsearches. And so basically, if we're open to suggestion, we're looking forsomething, you basically have the top half of the screen to capture your customerand there's a ton of them there and they're all highly qualified. They're alllooking for exactly the practice service you have to to provide because they already askthat question right. So that's why just to so that's why search is sounique and so special for marketers. But to your point, Chad, it'sincredibly challenging to be at the top of the half of that screen. Youcan buy your way on to that page and advertising a high performing ad orjust a well performing ad and the top of search for a non branded searchquery. Those around two percent of the traffic on the page. That meansninety eight percent of those customers or finding their answers somewhere else. So yousure you can be there? You can pay the nose to be there.Every people do because they have to. But really we're all the we're allthe traffic goes up to twenty to thirty percent of that traffic is on thatfirst organic link. In this first five organic links receive almost seventy percent ofall the traffic. So you really need to be right there. And forcompanies that are able to deploy Seo Strategies that get them there, fantastic.Mean Amazons one of them, you know, and Nikes one of them. Theyare so dominant, they're so Olympic podium level it's almost it's almost impossibleto knock them up. I mean almost impossible, like if, which iscalled impossible, and that is because, you know, Google looks at alot of different things, not just google but other search engines as well.But then one of the biggest ones is is how many in bound links youhave coming into your say, and it's called in the Seo community backlinks.There's all the different kinds of backlinks, but fundamentally there's just it's a it'sa kind of a game of like social strategy. Like all these other sites. Think you're important. Google recognizes that, then they elevate you. Do youreally think you're going to get more backlinks than than Amazon? That's agood question. Probably not be amazing if you can pull that off, though. Yeah. Yeah, so this is why I think it's worth thinking aboutother strategies outside of advertising and outside of Seo for the rest of us thatneed to attract and retrustomers and that on...

...that very limited real estate. Yeah, and so that. You said something really interesting, that the the topfive, I don't remember the exact a top five organic results get seventy somepercent of the traffic or something. Interestingly enough, when I mean I'm I'mprobably one of those adults that excuse the excuse the stats because I'm using Googleall the time throughout the day. But I also noticed that an interesting habit. I just became aware that I was actually doing it a couple weeks agoand if I search for something, my searches are typically pretty specific and whenit comes up there's usually that first ad or there's two ads of the topand I never click on them. I never click on the ads. Ialways scroll down and to the to the ones blow and nine times out often, eight times out of ten, that person who paid for that adis also the first organic result. And I know if I click on thatad then there's cost involved in still this certainly a strategy to be had thatyou so as an advertiser, you don't pay for the ad and less someoneclicks on it. And so sometimes people will say, well, it's worthjust being there because we're reinforcing the brand got, because I sees those toppositions, and so even if we're not getting the click, will people toknow that we exist and that's that's a legitimate strategy. Yep, okay,all right. And so when we're not, when we're, we're trying to findthe realize we're not going to be Damazon and the and we the tissuesare dried out and everybody understands we're not going to be D Amazon at thisgame. In there yet is there? You know, the reviews. We'rehearing a lot about review sites and reviews and things like that. Third Partysite. So how do they play it to the equation and and are thereare some that are more critical than others? Yeah, well, not really.I mean it like I think it really is very bespoke to every singlecategory or an industry or subject that you're looking for, because there are aspecialist in these subjects, right, and Google recognizes their their authority and thenthey reward them. The challenge is monitoring it on a large, and I'mnot you know, on a large basis, because there's so many iterations of keywordsand how someone might type in a question and you switch the name arounda few times and then all of a sudden you get a different search result. And also you get a different search result if you're on a mobile deviceor dust stop, because they assume things about your behavior if you're on yourmobile device. So you know each one of these places or you're going toliterally see different things. And what's what's interesting is the consumer journey is justnever as linear as as we wish it was. Right, like you don't, people don't just see something and they're like, I'm gonna buy that,and then the right right through and they buy it. It's more like,oh, like I had this question, like maybe I'm looking to get somenew granite countertops or something new, and I like, I'm going to lookand look up and see a question between how does courts compared to grant it? And that's and that that kind of like very top of the funnel.Search is going to start someone's buying journey. They don't even know what kind ofproduct they want, but they know they need a new countertop. Right. So they start and learning about the countertop. At that point it's it'simperative that brands reached them there. Start right as they start to think aboutit. Yeah, yeah, and then the next question is then they mightgo a little further down the funnel and there, okay, I actually reallywant a courts to countertop. Where would I buy a quartz countertop? Andnow you have another set of you know, result show up. These are muchmore transactional and nature people who are selling courts kind of tops are thanteaching about them. You still want to be there and then that's so thisis these are all the kind of stages and that buying journey and they eachone of them plays out in search and I think each one of them isan incredibly important place for a brand to reach. And the more reinforcement youhave along that bindjuring, the more likely you are to win the sale.Right, absolutely, this is something that it's not just me coming up withthis. Amazoner, not Amazon. Hub Spot, wrote a whole blog speriesabout this last year. They call it the surround sound strategy and effectively,buying a crm is a big purchase and...

...they know that there's a lot ofcompetition out there. They know that their website well, housepot riggs really,really well in search. There's still nine or ten other options on the pagewhere you will look at right. So what they realize is that they needto be in as many as many of those search results as they possibly canbe. And because there's all these listicles and there's all these round ups aboutthe best rm's, they need to be everywhere someone looks across a very largeswath the keywords for them to maintain their market position. And so they deployedthe same strategy. They call it surround sound and the ideas is that like, you can't avoid him, you're getting you're getting showered with hub spot everywhereyou're looking for a crm, and it's a very deliberate strategy that they deploythat basically takes their brand presence beyond their own website, beyond their own advertising, and is leveraging these third parties to make sure that they are very dominant, interesting and so I mean it's a level of complexity to first you haveto understand the customer journey right. That first the first time somebody will justgo with the countertop through the first time somebody thinks to I want quarts ordo I work granted, and it business. It's the same thing. People don'tsearch necessarily for the solution, they search for the information. Right wesee them. We see them doing the searches and doing the research to kindof fuel the thought process, so to speak. That's that could be areally ethereal part of the revenue funnel. It could be very difficult to know. You know, what are they going to be searching for because if youthink about it from a business standpoint, you're so close to your own solution. You know how you'd search for it, but that isn't necessarily how your customeror potential customer is going to search for it. Other strategies and waysthat people can think in advance or kind of get outside of their own owntree house to see the forest, so to speak. I think I screwedthat one up really bad. That analogy but you know what I mean.How do I set that bag? I step back. Yes, so youknow the problem with search is that it's a multi channel playground in a lotof different pieces of any marking department are going to be responsible for various performanceat you know, attributes and search. But unfortunately I marking departments they're sosilod people work in their silos and they don't care about how the other teamsare doing. But you cannot approach search in that way. If you wantto be dominant, if you want to be ubiquitous, your teams have toget aligned and so you have to realize that you have to be on thosethose ecommerce product pages that are that are surfacing, and how do your ECOMMERCEteams optimize for those product pages are search surfacing? Your PR teams have tobe reaching the bloggers that are driving that that top of funal awareness. Sowhen you're saying courts versus versus granite, that's going to be an informational keywordright like people aren't looking to buy at that point, they're looking to learnand that plays really well into the PR team's. Pr Teams, I guarantee, aren't thinking about this, but if they knew that this was a thatthat this was important and they knew that these people were driving a ton ofcustomer consideration, then they could do it. So that's that's part of it andso, you know, I guess the tied into kind of what Ido is I actually come from a PR background. I own a PR agency. We started realizing years ago that our most performant PR hits weren't the onesthat were in the most most most prestigious publications, they were the ones thatwere showing up at the top of search and they were driving the most trafficand the most affiliate, you know, revenue, and so on and soforth, and we just asked ourselves the question, how do we do moreof this? And it let us down this rabbit hole of really understanding howthe consumer journey plays out in search and about how there's so many more responsibilitiesthan just the SEO team. For interesting...

...and it's I mean it's a complexweb search right. It's a complex web. You've got even even just one topic, as that should sound to many, and unless it makes them cringe andfreak out like it does me, think about the search results in theSeo like that just seems overwhelming, but there's so many silos that play inespecially from a business standpoint. Now, when we've talked about doing this,I'm you set ups, but calls it to surround sound strategy or the Ithink when we were talking at one point, it's about managing more real estate,so to speak. Right. Yeah, so I'm always curious. There aretheir places. That shows up in search, but I'm curious how,like sites like Cora and others, are review sites play into that as well? Are they in this mathematical morass that is behind the scenes? Are theysomehow weighted heavier, or do they have the more impact because it is otherpotential customers providing insights? Is there something that's somehow gives that a little bitmore weight because it's less biased than what maybe marketing from the source may seemlike? We're maybe perceived to be good question. What I can tell youis, you know what what we've done at at visibly, the software companythat I work at, we've basically mapped out in a high degree of granularitywhere people click on the page and this is where they click when there's notan intention of where to go. So what what you know? What youknow what it is not a navigational search. And so if they're open to whateverthey're they're like, they're open to learning and they and they have noagenda. And this is this is, on average, where everyone's going toclick. And so what we know is how many, how frequently, peopleclick on. People also ask, and that's a lot of times where Corashows up. And we also know the frequency of how times people click onon on local packs, which is like the maps that you see when you'rein trying to go someplace. And so we have this good, really gooddata on where people are navigating and and what their click behavior looks like insearch. And so I would say that in general, people navigate toward theorganic links those. That is just I think that's a something that's wired fromthe early days of the Internet. This is that these are the most importantthings on the page. I don't know, but they they solicit the most clicksby a long shot, unless it's like a map or something like that, and then which case those maps do really, really well. And thenthere's a lot of what you call searches that are called called no click searches, and there are people who are looking for an answer that does not requirethem to click on anything, and Google is trying to optimize for these searches. They they're like answer boxes and knowledge panels and things like that. Soif Google can try to answer your question without solicting at Click, it's abetter user experience for you and it's better for a Google because it means thatyou never leave their platform. But yeah, we don't think their money off ads. So if I'm not if they're answering the question, that I don'tgo anywhere else. Well, it's all about becoming central to your life really, and so the more useful Google can be come to you that that meansthat you'll just keep coming back to it. So the fact that there's three,you know, on every adults checking Google three times a day, that'sexactly where they want us. They got it. They got US exactly wherethey was. Have you seen the I know Google not necessarily Social Lema,but have you seen the social dilemma? Have you seen the movie the SocialDilemma? And I have. Yeah, well, man, talk about freakingme out, Teddy, I actually divested of all my facebook holdings after thatmovie. Did you really? I can understand why. I can understand why. I mean it's really there was a book, I canmem if we wasmentioned in the in the movie or not, called the surveillance economy. That wherewe've basically become the product. That that takes that social dilemma to awhole other level. So if you were, if anybody listening, a hundred percentsure, I mean everyone listen to this knows it. Like, ifyou're not paying for it, you go that's because you are the product.Yeah, and you have to be okay that. I no, I remembertime. We're totally off track here,...

...but hey, that's what happens.So I remember back in the day when I was working for and running salesand marketing teams for digital agencies, we had to put a great deal ofeffort to convince the people that we were building these experiences for to allow thelocation to be scraped so they knew, so I could provide location based date. At now maybe up dating myself, but we're going back some fifteen yearswhen we started this and there were people who said there is no way anybodywill ever ever let you know where they are through their phone. And now, fast forward, people get pissed if I pull up some vice ask somethingand something doesn't give me like an answer. Where's the closest pizza joint to whereI'm standing? Then then they're irritated because it hits that user experience thing. They'll go someplace. I think there's a genuine usefulness, you know,honestly, like yes, we're trying to sell you stuff, but you know, Google has provided a genuinely useful set of tools and they still have tomake money off those tools. So they can't do they have to sell accessto you. But like, you know, same thing with all this stuff.You know, and I think that's the marketers dilemma is, how doyou be useful, not obnoxious and and ultimately, marketers that can be usefullike, for instance, and there were way off topic, but people whoare getting emails in their inbox, like if you're getting an email from,say, your favorite when your favorite clothing companies, and they know your clothingsize and they know that you look in and there's a hey, there's asale on these things today. We thought you be interested. Oh cool,I appreciate that, you know, but if it's like not targeted, ithas nothing to do with you, and you're like leave me alone, so, yeah, absolutely. Well, now I'm starting to get random texts,random text that are trying to market to me things that are not safe forwork to talk about, and I don't know why I'm getting those, butI they show up on my phone all the time, really invasive and annoying, and there's no ide how I'm clicking on a link from somebody I don'tknow. I'm smart enough to know I could cause some seriously bad things happenedto that right, all right, so let's see if I could bring usback. So let's talk about visibly for a second. How did we endup with this solution, with this company right where? What tell us aboutthe journey? How do we get to see you don't founder visibly? Yeah, so the journey really came from I'm a pure professional or what? Youknow what we do all day long, as we leverage third party endorsements onbehalf of our clients and we get other people to talk about our stuff.That's what we do, that's what the PR does. It was it wasa natural progression to see search in the same way. What's lowers other peopleto talk about our stuff. Let's let's these guys are showing up with thefirst page of search. Let's get them to talk about our brand, becausewe can't get there. That's a that's a natural thing for a PR personI think about apparently no one else in the world thinks about that. Soyou know, as you were, as you're kind of going down this thispath with that, you know what the agency we realize that there were notools to measure what we were doing. And and I had a very simplequestion at the time, and the question was, and I'm a brand,where do I exist in search? And nobody could answer that question. Theycould say, I'll tell you what your website exists, I'll tell you whatyour ads exist, but I can't tell you what your brand exists because thatrequires third party measurement and that doesn't there's no there's no kind of solution intactfor that. And so after I kind of realize that was truly not existentin the marketplace, I figured we have to we someone has to do it. So that's that's where I kind of jumped from pr into software and Isaid, okay, let's let's build a software platform that basically is a brandof listening software for search engines. And how can we how can we unpackthe customer journey, unpack how brands are reaching customers and deliver kind of valuableinsights around that. Awesome and it's are we still run in the PR agencyto? Oh Yeah, yeah, I... it all right. So,if there were two things you want listeners to start doing tomorrow to help withthe search results, what are what would it be? What would be that, if the two things you boiled down to just do things? Yeah,I'd say that. You know, the first thing, guys, is workwith your work with your teammates and cross functional teams. You know, it'sa search is not just an SEO game. It's a PR game, it's anECOMMERCE game, it's an SEM game. All these teams need to like getaround a table and figure out how to work together. Awesome. Numbertwo is you really need to identify search intent, and this is something wehaven't talked about today, but search intent is the idea that that Google hasto make a determination about what. What do we want to see when wetype in a keyword? Do we want to buy something, do we wantto click, do we want to go somewhere, or do we want tolearn about something? And once you unpack search intent. It really opens upthis incredible strategic playground that all these teams can kind of contribute to because,like I said earlier about the quartz countertops, it's like, okay, someone's lookingat courts verstagranic counter tops. That's a purely informational search intent and youhave to deploy PR strategies to get there. Maybe Seo Strategies, but mostly beour strategies. Further down the funnel, someone's looking to buy a grand acountertop. That's a totally different deployment of strategies. That's much more onit on on the on the SEO and also on the on the growth kindof commerce side. So you want to make sure that your well position John, you know, with like home de bill or lows or something. Butanyways, those those are the two pieces that team seem to kind of worktogether on. I love it and it's a great reason for people to reachout to die further into that search intent conversation with you and with your organization, because that's a whole another level old level, another level of complexity.So let's change direction a little bit. We ask all of our guests tostandard questions the end of each inne first is as a CEO and founder.That makes you a target or a prospect for many, many people who aretrying to sell stuff, and I'm always really curious to know, in thisworld we live in where everybody is inundated in digital and we have more distractionsthan we can count, when somebody doesn't have a trusted referral into you,somebody that you know where, that you've had some type of relationship in thepast, just cold. It's totally cold. What works for you when somebody's tryingto capture your attention and earn the right to time on your calendar?Yeah, I'd say there's a certain amount of luck, no question. Thatis the first time I have heready. They have to know that I needsomething and I haven't told them any. You need it yet, you know. So there's there's that, and then I'd say number two is just apersonalization and understanding kind of who I am, what my pain points are, andso we're most of those services that were that we're acquiring right now.We're on boarding a pretty high touch and we're for instance, just the otherday we had a hunt under reach out to us. That was good,as hey would like to headhunt some people for you. I'm like, youknow what, it's actually good timing because we're looking higher. But they thatwas lost. It also done there. They'd also done research on who wewere and like our market sector and they were experts in it. And theyalso said, okay, here are three candidates that I think you would youwould be interested at talking to and here's who they are. And they followedup with the phone call and and I was like this all resonates, thisis perfect, like you save me a bunch of time. Thank you.So I love it. Well, saving time, understanding your audience. Right, there's always that aspect, aspect of luck, but I think if youcan really understand who it is you're reaching out to and stop automated, itis pro marketing is huge and coming from a PRC background, it's all wedeal all day long is cold outreach, a lot of it. But you, your your list will be much better if you if you just spend thetime make sure that you're reaching the person...

...actually wants to hear the message.You have to say. Yeah, I love it, I love it allright, last question. We call it our acceleration and say you had one. Now I give you two before, but now we're going to just broughtit out. Say, in marketing, sales pr one piece of advice that, if somebody listen to you, actually believe would help them hit or exceedtheir targets. What would it be and why? Man, I would Iwould just say, you know, get focused on distribution. You know,put your operations ahead of your marketing. You know, make sure that yourproduct is dialed, make sure that you have something that is is well packagedand then focus on reaching the right people. I think that I see it allthe time as an agency person that people put the marketing ahead of theproduct and I think that's always a recipe for disaster. Love it excellent.Well, Chris. I can't thank you enough for being on the show day. If a listeners interested in talking more about these topics. Going into thatsearch and tent, which anybody listening, I highly recommend you really dive intowhat that means, because it is crazy. Where do you want us to sendthem? Do you want US website linked? It will smokes, itwill check out, check out visibly. It's vis ablycom we have a free, free tool up there. No the credit card anything that thing like thatrequired, because check it out and I'm at I'm on Linkedin, so it'sa great place to reach me. Just Chris underscored, Dicky DIIC K Ewhy and you'll see me a CEO of that at a visibly awesome and Ireally appreciate you taking the time. Glad we were able to connect and dothis today. All right. Well, thank you. Chat all right,everybody that does it for this episode. You know the drill. CHECK USout. A be to be read exactcom sure with friends, family, Coworkers. Let your kids listen to it or watch it. So I'm notsure if we're going to use this video. It's you know, it's screen time, but hey, you got two goodlooking dudes that they should you know. We're taking the Ganderra at and make sure that they're listening to the message. Until next time, we have value something associates with you all nothing butthe greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. Toensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes oryour favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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