The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 10 months ago

Why Creating Content at Scale Is Easier with AI w/ Jeff Coyle


Everyone knows content is critical to success…

Yet so many struggle with creating content effectively at scale.

If you’re one of them, you may need to enlist the help of AI.

Today, I’m speaking with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse, about how content creators can draw upon the power of AI to maximize the return on their content investment.

We discuss how AI can help you:

  • Demonstrate your expertise
  • Create better content than your competitors
  • Easily differentiate your content in a crowded landscape

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executiveexperience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams tooptimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources,you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about content, more specifically, how aican augment the content creation process. We all know content is critical. Howwe get it done on on scale and in a consistent way? As achallenge sounds like, Hey, I may be able to help. To discusswith us. Today we have Jeff Coil, chief strategy officer at market munity.Jeff, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show.Thank you so much. As really a pleasure to be on the show withyou. So, before we jump in, we always like to ask a questionso or audience and get to know you're a little bit better. Liketo start with something you know. What is something you're passionate about that thosewho only know you through work or only know your work persona might be surprisedto learn about you. Oh Gosh, you know that there's when you whenyou ask that type of question. There's so many things, but I dothink that people might be interested in my passion for content strategy, even thoughit is associated with my work. I just I study everything that's out there. I read everything. So I'm just this consumption a hall like content.You know, I kind of like to get deep into a topic. Ithink it's sometimes a little bit selfserving, like I just want to know allthe random trivia effects that's associated with something. So when I dive into a topic, I just like to, you know, cover myself with information.I think if you know, if you know me, but only in work, it just sometimes seems like I've done way too much research, but it'susually actually kind of true, nice, excellent, and so I'm curious wheredid the where the passion for the content, content creation process, come from?You know, it's interesting. I never thought that that would be whereit would land, but I was a computer science you know, that's whereI got my degree from college, and I worked with the company early stage. I was telling leads to be to be technology companies from like one thousandnine hundred and ninety nine, two thousand to two thousand and seven, witha company called Knowledge Storm. They are one of the first companies that wasselling leads to in Bab be a you know, content syndication, but atthat time nobody was even really thinking about content or content strategy. And wewere acquired by a publisher who also sold leads, called Tech Target, whomany of your listeners might be familiar with, and they had a large, reallyamazing editorial team and at up to that point I really didn't have tothink about it. To rial, it was all about syndicating white papers andbrochure, basically equivalent surewear in case studies and such, and I learned thatthere's a lot more to the editorial process...

...than I really understood and it wouldn'tbe acceptable for me to just shoot lists of keywords to them because at thetime I was just person in charge of traffic, in charge of generating generatingtraffic for the sites, in charge of like making sure we, you know, made the lead commitments that we had promised for our clients, and soI just really spent years trying to learn these manual content processes with the goaland as it as it happens with the goal of trying to, you know, automate a lot of the more painful ones. So my passion really comesfrom having seen, having, you know, delivered data unsuccessfully to editorial leadership andthen learn all of the manual processes and brainstorming and, you know,hunch and subjective decisions that are made in that field. And now market Musis, you know, trying to bring data driven decisions to that same group. So that's amazing and it's amazing how different things, you know, kindof connect and pull us all in. I'm a huge now I'm a I'mnot anywhere near an expert. I just find ai and everything that goes behindit absolutely incredible. We had Neil Shoda on the show a while back forthose listenings that you and ambassador for artificial intelligence for good then, one ofthe creators of Watson. I'm curious, you know, content creation. Alot of people will think of it as very much an individual human kind ofthing. You know, we need to do videos, we need to dowhite papers, it's the presentation of ideas. I'm curious how AI plugs into thisto augment that process. Yeah, so there's I like to think ofthe as a bit of a circle, right, if you're thinking about thisin your brain as a visual you have a research process. How are yougoing to research what you should write or maybe what you should update, andwhat goes into that? That can be very manual. It can be veryunintuitive, especially if you're a subject matter expert or you are, you know, being assigned to write something. The planning and prioritization is a big piecethat we use artificial intelligence to assess. Really, if you've got a collectionof content, we want that collection of content on your site or wherever,to tell the story that you are an expert, to get across the messagesthat you want to get across, to exhibit that you are the Authority,to grow trust with your audience. You know, that's the secret of buildinga great online presence is someone reads that reads your content says, Oh,this is clearly written by someone that knows what they're doing, and then you'realso providing them with other information and other content that maybe one click away,that is answering their next few questions, getting them, you know, asit were, further in the bicycle, deeper into an information gathering process,etc. So we use it for planning in that way. We also,you know, try to establish data driven single sources of truth. The waythat we do this quite often is in the form of a content brief,so something where you say I want to write an article about this. Wecan generate a content brief that. Then...

...that person can validate it and thenhand it to their writer. So the writer and the person who's ordering thatcontent item or that content strategists or that demand en lead, you're on thesame page. There's a single source of truth. So the person that's writingit doesn't have to focus on the stuff they're not good at or that theyhate, you know, the key research or, or, you know,coming up with a good, you know, organizational process. They can just focuson being creative and showing that they know this better than anyone else.I can focus on their customization, on the video production quality. They're notnecessarily doing work for purposes that they don't really appreciate or desire anyway, youknow, for a Seo, you know because my backgrounds in that search engineoptimization space, and really what I would like to bring is that single sourceof truth for writers and content strategists and then we really take it to thenext stage and we get into even getting giving solutions for editors. Let's sayyou receive a draft from someone and you want to validate that it is thatwhich is written by an expert, that it answers common questions, that itis comprehensive. We have ways for we have objective measures of quality and comprehensiveness, so we can actually say, Yep, this, this validates this is agreat article. Or actually, here are a few blind spots. Youshould have covered this, that and the other, you know, and andwe can give that feedback back to the writer. And then, with someof our new technology, we started to generate content to provide inspiration for writersand giving them kind of extra superpowers to execute ten more successfully. So thatcreates a big circle. You know we're talking about. So it sounds like, if I'm hearing it right, it sounds like we're talking about using aito offload the things where quality of execution may suffer because it isn't a focalpoint or passion point for the individuals that have to do it as part ofthe content creation process. It allows them to hopefully be more efficient generate higherquality content because their focus on the things that they are the most excited about, rather than relying on and realizing I'm going to have to go do theseother other things I don't want to, and then the quality of that executioncan sometimes suffer. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, absolutely, andwith with, with like, I'd say three additional like bonus points, andthere one is a predictive return on investment. Knowing the likelihood of success as faras generating organic traffic of a content item before you write it is atruly unfair advantage, the second being you never have to publish content that isn'tbetter than your competitor anymore. From the standpoint of quality comprehensiveness, there isno reason for you to ever publish a content item on the topic and haveit not be equal to or better than your competitors, and that's the typeof thing that we kind of validate. We're able to give you the confidenceto write to your expertise and know how successful that is going to be.Or maybe it's not directly successful, but it's acting as scaffolding for a greaterplan, like hey, we want to...

...own this topic, we want toown consultative selling. How do we do that? How do we go fromwhere we are today to owning that topic. What are the things we need tocover? What are the user intent profiles? What are the personas weneed to speak to? And then we know we have to build these eightyarticles this month or this year to achieve that goal of owning that specific topic. So we do all of the above. Wow, okay, so not somuch. I could dive into the the competitive analysis piece, like makingsure we're writing better or putting up better content than the competition. Help meunderstand how that, how that happens? What are the criteria? How's ITevaluated? What's the feedback loop look like? They're so the way we can dothat is if you look at it just as a head to head,page to page. Right, we can look at one page and tell youwhether it is comprehensive on a particular topic and Cass give you the gaps whereyou should have written, what things you should have written about that you didn't, what we would target as far as quality and comprehensiveness, length, thingsthat should have been covered. So if any other page. So we canput you head to head against the specific direct competitor or, in your case, maybe a publisher who's also writing about the same topic. Do you imaginewe can do that at the page level? Well, we can do it acrossa bunch of pages, so you can look at an entire our market. To analyze one topic, we have to look at tens of thousands ofpages where don't just look at five pages, we're trying to look at everything that'sever been written on the subject, just like I was talking about atthe top of the show, right, and we analyze all of that andwe distill it into this kind of golden model. This says anyone who knowsanything about value selling is going to know these things. If you don't mentionthose things, it means you're not really an expert, and so you cansee that. The other cool thing is it's not just about what a couplepeople are writing. It's not just about maybe with a top performers in organicstarcher writing. So oftentimes we'll find things that are very, very relevant thanno one is talking about. So when you are given that information, ifyou write about those underserved related concepts, you are immediately differentiated. So we'renot just looking to be like everyone else. We're looking to be like everyone elseand then also extremely differentiated. So you get all that information distilled inone view anytime you're researching anything. So you had kind of have that gameplan done for you. Wow, okay, and so how does this so howdoes the ability to have these insights of stuff? How does it changethe way a company should view their content strategy? You know, because ifyou hire up, you go see level probably more concerned about profit, businessgoals and things like that. They're not going to you start talking content strategyand probably going to have some eyes glazing over. Oh yet, how doesit impact? How just having the ability to have this type of insight changethe impact or change the content creation strategy itself or the way the team shouldbe thinking about it? And the first thing I think it really changes iswhat I call content efficiency. It's the...'s the expectation of what we willyield from our content. Commonly, teams will walk in the door working withus and they will have five to ten percent of the content that they creategenerates a meaningful amount or hits their KPI, and that sounds super low, butit's right around the par for people's so I means they write ten articlesto get one of them to perform and they've kind of accepted that that that'sthe way it's going to be. That's unbelievable, yes, but it's true. And so one thing that really we like to bring to like decision makersor see level is if you're publishing ten articles, you're publishing a hundred articles. The accepting the reality that five to ten of them are the only onesthat are going to perform and that this is like rolling the dice and it'svery hit and miss and inconsistent and unpredictable is a fallacy. With the rightdata you can hit thirty, forty, fifty. We've seen teams goes sixty, seventy percent of their content can hit the KPI. So just predictable performanceis the biggest thing that people are dying for in content, where they reallythink that they're just, you know, swinging in the air and hoping tohit the of all and then updating existing content. Like everybody's got the embarrassingpage right. So you've got your existing content inventory, you've got this pagethat gets a lot of traffic that you don't like anymore. It's outdated.It was like the spur of the moment page you wrote. So I've gotthese, like I love these. I have these like risk things, likeimagine you had a page out there that hasn't been updated eight years, butit gets eighty percent of your traffic and you're afraid to touch it, youknow. So we can actually build strategy for teams with our technology that maybetakes the risk off of those type of situations that very, very commonly popup. So that's all right. So that's amazing. So when, okay, you mentioned something earlier I want to go back to, and that's aI generated content, or maybe a starting point. Some people out there now, anybody who's watched the social dilemma, it's probably a little bit scared ofanything related to a IR algorithmic intent. So how how does that work?How do you just put in, say I want to write an article onmale pattern baldness? I say that because anybody who see me knows I'm bald. And so then all of a sudden it brings back, does the researchand cobbles together a starting point. Yeah, as a you know, as someonewho is a eight plus year row game. You, I'll, I'll, I'll kind of bond with you there. But basically, what we're able todo. There are models out there that do template driven generation and thatdo like hybrids with templates. What we're able to do is really unique becausewe're able to, like, like I mentioned, we're able to build themodel that says, what does it mean to be an expert on this topic? We're then able to build the brief and which you, as a contentstrategist, can validate and go, Yep,...

...this is the article I want towrite, and then we can feed that into our system. We cantrain that system on your content. We can tune it for your content,we can tune it for, you know, any publisher. We can tune iton, you know, any data set, and what we can dois aim to answer the questions in that brief, aim to cover the topicsin the brief and write content that's close to the way that you would havecovered it, with the goal of what we call market Muse first draft andmarket Muse first draft is the intent behind that is to give kind of astarting point that then you can expand, you can tweak, you can improveon, and that's really what we've done. That is extremely innovative in the fieldthere's a lot of stuff out there that's just like kind of generating,you know, garbage, or it's just generating piles of content or generating prettygood content or under small circumstances, that can do pretty well. But whatwe wanted to do is build controllable guard rail driven, you know, compliantcontent with what somebody would expect, with the intent of continue to improve onthat so that if you were a contest strategist or you were a writer andyou're sitting there like, man, I know I need to write eight articlesabout male pattern baldness. I did all this research, I know that theseare the eight takes on this, but I'm not going to get that outfor a month and a half. But I know exactly what I want todo. Well, I could work with Markmi's maybe I might write the onecomprehensively based on what I wanted to cover and those eight support pieces may havebeen assisted so that I only had to edit them and expand them and focuson production value. So we're trying to do is make your subject matter expertsand your editors into really superheroes that can cover the entire thing, and theinspiration of that is many publishers today have an LG and natural language generation solutions. Heliograph at the Washington Post has been around for over five years and oneof my most one of my favorite references to that is when they used tocover the Olympic Games. They can only cover about ten percent of the eventsand using this solution, Helio gravits with an F if you want to lookit up, they were able to cover every single event and then focus theireditorial leaders and their subject matter experts on more feature pieces. So it cantake and you know, same thing. They do the same with local andregional and and a federal and federal elections. You know, they're able to coverevery single local election there. Wouldn't dream to be able to do that. You know, the tens of thousands of them. So it really givesyou a superhero power. No one's ever been able to do that for contentmarketers until today. That we're doing with market these first draft interesting. Okay, and so that's an example of the New York Times. Can you giveme a better, and not a better, a different example of how a clientdoesn't necessarily have to be around first draft? But as we put thisall together and we think about, you know, content strategy and AI supportfor it and all that. Could give... an example of a client who'sor customer who's been able to really turn this around on leverage this for seriousimpacts. We can kind of make it sticky for everybody. Oh, absolutely, and we have great, a great number of those case studies throughout oursite. But I use a little bit of a abstract example of a typicalexperience with us using some real data, as we have a company, asa small startup, called CORTEX, and get Cortex, I believe. Isthere? Gosh, I hope so, is there? You are? ButYEA CORTEX. There a social media automation platform. They dove been management andall kinds of different amazing things with paid social. They had a relatively smallcontent team and what we were able to do by implementing both a systematic wayto optimize and expand existing content as well as a brief enabling briefs so thatthey could ensure that what they wrote was successful, we were able to putthem in situation, I believe that they went in their first year working withus, they six times the traffic that they're generating and they're able to publishx the amount of content with the same people, and this is an alien. My first experience with market news. I'm the cofounder, but actually wasone of the first customers of the earliest technology. I quintupled the traffic toone section of one of my websites in the first plan that I did andI was like Whoa, this works and I ended up being the cofounder.There's a little story that goes on between that. But yeah, so theit is a situation where, especially if you have, you know, ateam, teams that are really performance driven or if you have a lot ofcontent that hasn't been optimized, this can be groundbreaking. I mean it reallycan change the game you, especially if you've got stuff that you thought wasgoing to do well and didn't, or maybe you got tenzero pages on yoursite and you're just like, I don't know where to start. We cantell you exactly where to start, what page to update tomorrow. That's goingto have the biggest impact on your business, and that's really the special part ofit. Wow, that's it's seriously impressive. As a writer, asa former marketer and a I kind of Geek about it all. Phenomenal tohear all this. So all right, let's let's change direction here a littlebit. We ask all of our guests two standard questions towards the end ofReachi interviument and has a chief strategy officer and cofounder. That makes you atarget, or, excuse me, prospect for many people that are out there, and I'm always curious to know when somebody doesn't have a trusted referral andlike it's not the network bringing you somebody. They're trying to earn the right totime when your counter what works best for you for somebody to the buildthe credibility necessary to earn the right to time on your calendar to have aconversation. I did work, three letters, three words. I did work andwhat I'm showing you is legitimate work that I did and the value thatit brings. And I love the concept of showing show them. You knowthem right, but I really if I feel like the person sending me thatnote did actual physical work, did actual...

...mental work to build the message.For me, that's typically enough, even if it's not perfect, even ifit's not hitting the mark, if it's appropriate for me and they've done somework, so they did work. That's my answer. I love it.I love it, it's and it's so true. All right, so lastquestion. We call it our acceleration insight. If you have one piece of advicethat you could give to sales and marketing professionals to make them more effectiveand be able to hit their targets, what would it be? And why? Stop talking about yourself, stop talking about preach, Stop Time An.You know, I know, it's my version of keep the solution in yourpocket. Right. No, but it is. It's it may be reallyhard. You live in your own brain all day and really thinking critically aboutways that you can show the value through your product, through your business,instead of with your product and with your business. Well said. Well said, Jeff. If a listeners interested in talking to you more about the topics, about ai or any of this, or if they're interested in learning moreabout market Muse, where's the ideal place for us to send them? Myemail is jeff at market Muscom. Jeffrey underscore coil on twitter. I'm veryactive on Linkedin Market Muse as well. Market Muse Co on twitter and weare also quite active there. We also have a community of content strategists calledthe content strategy collective at a slack community. If you want to have a exclusiveinvite there, shoot me a note at Jeff at market Muscom. I'llget you hooked up if you're you know, no matter what level, it's justkind of the mastermind for contest strategists. Love it Nice that, Jeff.I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. It's beena great conversation. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and I reallyreally valued the discussion. Excellent. All right, everybody that does ofthis episode, you know the drill be to be REV exactcom share the episodeof Friends, family, Co workers, let your kids listen to it.Get away from the screens for a little bit. Until next time, wehave value selling associate. It's with you nothing but the greatest success. You'vebeen listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player.Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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