The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Why Creating Content at Scale Is Easier with AI w/ Jeff Coyle


Everyone knows content is critical to success…

Yet so many struggle with creating content effectively at scale.

If you’re one of them, you may need to enlist the help of AI.

Today, I’m speaking with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse, about how content creators can draw upon the power of AI to maximize the return on their content investment.

We discuss how AI can help you:

  • Demonstrate your expertise
  • Create better content than your competitors
  • Easily differentiate your content in a crowded landscape

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about content, more specifically, how ai can augment the content creation process. We all know content is critical. How we get it done on on scale and in a consistent way? As a challenge sounds like, Hey, I may be able to help. To discuss with us. Today we have Jeff Coil, chief strategy officer at market munity. Jeff, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Thank you so much. As really a pleasure to be on the show with you. So, before we jump in, we always like to ask a question so or audience and get to know you're a little bit better. Like to start with something you know. What is something you're passionate about that those who only know you through work or only know your work persona might be surprised to learn about you. Oh Gosh, you know that there's when you when you ask that type of question. There's so many things, but I do think that people might be interested in my passion for content strategy, even though it is associated with my work. I just I study everything that's out there. I read everything. So I'm just this consumption a hall like content. You know, I kind of like to get deep into a topic. I think it's sometimes a little bit selfserving, like I just want to know all the random trivia effects that's associated with something. So when I dive into a topic, I just like to, you know, cover myself with information. I think if you know, if you know me, but only in work, it just sometimes seems like I've done way too much research, but it's usually actually kind of true, nice, excellent, and so I'm curious where did the where the passion for the content, content creation process, come from? You know, it's interesting. I never thought that that would be where it would land, but I was a computer science you know, that's where I got my degree from college, and I worked with the company early stage. I was telling leads to be to be technology companies from like one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, two thousand to two thousand and seven, with a company called Knowledge Storm. They are one of the first companies that was selling leads to in Bab be a you know, content syndication, but at that time nobody was even really thinking about content or content strategy. And we were acquired by a publisher who also sold leads, called Tech Target, who many of your listeners might be familiar with, and they had a large, really amazing editorial team and at up to that point I really didn't have to think about it. To rial, it was all about syndicating white papers and brochure, basically equivalent surewear in case studies and such, and I learned that there's a lot more to the editorial process...

...than I really understood and it wouldn't be acceptable for me to just shoot lists of keywords to them because at the time I was just person in charge of traffic, in charge of generating generating traffic for the sites, in charge of like making sure we, you know, made the lead commitments that we had promised for our clients, and so I just really spent years trying to learn these manual content processes with the goal and as it as it happens with the goal of trying to, you know, automate a lot of the more painful ones. So my passion really comes from having seen, having, you know, delivered data unsuccessfully to editorial leadership and then learn all of the manual processes and brainstorming and, you know, hunch and subjective decisions that are made in that field. And now market Mus is, you know, trying to bring data driven decisions to that same group. So that's amazing and it's amazing how different things, you know, kind of connect and pull us all in. I'm a huge now I'm a I'm not anywhere near an expert. I just find ai and everything that goes behind it absolutely incredible. We had Neil Shoda on the show a while back for those listenings that you and ambassador for artificial intelligence for good then, one of the creators of Watson. I'm curious, you know, content creation. A lot of people will think of it as very much an individual human kind of thing. You know, we need to do videos, we need to do white papers, it's the presentation of ideas. I'm curious how AI plugs into this to augment that process. Yeah, so there's I like to think of the as a bit of a circle, right, if you're thinking about this in your brain as a visual you have a research process. How are you going to research what you should write or maybe what you should update, and what goes into that? That can be very manual. It can be very unintuitive, especially if you're a subject matter expert or you are, you know, being assigned to write something. The planning and prioritization is a big piece that we use artificial intelligence to assess. Really, if you've got a collection of content, we want that collection of content on your site or wherever, to tell the story that you are an expert, to get across the messages that you want to get across, to exhibit that you are the Authority, to grow trust with your audience. You know, that's the secret of building a great online presence is someone reads that reads your content says, Oh, this is clearly written by someone that knows what they're doing, and then you're also providing them with other information and other content that maybe one click away, that is answering their next few questions, getting them, you know, as it were, further in the bicycle, deeper into an information gathering process, etc. So we use it for planning in that way. We also, you know, try to establish data driven single sources of truth. The way that we do this quite often is in the form of a content brief, so something where you say I want to write an article about this. We can generate a content brief that. Then...

...that person can validate it and then hand it to their writer. So the writer and the person who's ordering that content item or that content strategists or that demand en lead, you're on the same page. There's a single source of truth. So the person that's writing it doesn't have to focus on the stuff they're not good at or that they hate, you know, the key research or, or, you know, coming up with a good, you know, organizational process. They can just focus on being creative and showing that they know this better than anyone else. I can focus on their customization, on the video production quality. They're not necessarily doing work for purposes that they don't really appreciate or desire anyway, you know, for a Seo, you know because my backgrounds in that search engine optimization space, and really what I would like to bring is that single source of truth for writers and content strategists and then we really take it to the next stage and we get into even getting giving solutions for editors. Let's say you receive a draft from someone and you want to validate that it is that which is written by an expert, that it answers common questions, that it is comprehensive. We have ways for we have objective measures of quality and comprehensiveness, so we can actually say, Yep, this, this validates this is a great article. Or actually, here are a few blind spots. You should have covered this, that and the other, you know, and and we can give that feedback back to the writer. And then, with some of our new technology, we started to generate content to provide inspiration for writers and giving them kind of extra superpowers to execute ten more successfully. So that creates a big circle. You know we're talking about. So it sounds like, if I'm hearing it right, it sounds like we're talking about using ai to offload the things where quality of execution may suffer because it isn't a focal point or passion point for the individuals that have to do it as part of the content creation process. It allows them to hopefully be more efficient generate higher quality content because their focus on the things that they are the most excited about, rather than relying on and realizing I'm going to have to go do these other other things I don't want to, and then the quality of that execution can sometimes suffer. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, absolutely, and with with, with like, I'd say three additional like bonus points, and there one is a predictive return on investment. Knowing the likelihood of success as far as generating organic traffic of a content item before you write it is a truly unfair advantage, the second being you never have to publish content that isn't better than your competitor anymore. From the standpoint of quality comprehensiveness, there is no reason for you to ever publish a content item on the topic and have it not be equal to or better than your competitors, and that's the type of thing that we kind of validate. We're able to give you the confidence to write to your expertise and know how successful that is going to be. Or maybe it's not directly successful, but it's acting as scaffolding for a greater plan, like hey, we want to...

...own this topic, we want to own consultative selling. How do we do that? How do we go from where we are today to owning that topic. What are the things we need to cover? What are the user intent profiles? What are the personas we need to speak to? And then we know we have to build these eighty articles this month or this year to achieve that goal of owning that specific topic. So we do all of the above. Wow, okay, so not so much. I could dive into the the competitive analysis piece, like making sure we're writing better or putting up better content than the competition. Help me understand how that, how that happens? What are the criteria? How's IT evaluated? What's the feedback loop look like? They're so the way we can do that is if you look at it just as a head to head, page to page. Right, we can look at one page and tell you whether it is comprehensive on a particular topic and Cass give you the gaps where you should have written, what things you should have written about that you didn't, what we would target as far as quality and comprehensiveness, length, things that should have been covered. So if any other page. So we can put you head to head against the specific direct competitor or, in your case, maybe a publisher who's also writing about the same topic. Do you imagine we can do that at the page level? Well, we can do it across a bunch of pages, so you can look at an entire our market. To analyze one topic, we have to look at tens of thousands of pages where don't just look at five pages, we're trying to look at everything that's ever been written on the subject, just like I was talking about at the top of the show, right, and we analyze all of that and we distill it into this kind of golden model. This says anyone who knows anything about value selling is going to know these things. If you don't mention those things, it means you're not really an expert, and so you can see that. The other cool thing is it's not just about what a couple people are writing. It's not just about maybe with a top performers in organic starcher writing. So oftentimes we'll find things that are very, very relevant than no one is talking about. So when you are given that information, if you write about those underserved related concepts, you are immediately differentiated. So we're not just looking to be like everyone else. We're looking to be like everyone else and then also extremely differentiated. So you get all that information distilled in one view anytime you're researching anything. So you had kind of have that game plan done for you. Wow, okay, and so how does this so how does the ability to have these insights of stuff? How does it change the way a company should view their content strategy? You know, because if you hire up, you go see level probably more concerned about profit, business goals and things like that. They're not going to you start talking content strategy and probably going to have some eyes glazing over. Oh yet, how does it impact? How just having the ability to have this type of insight change the impact or change the content creation strategy itself or the way the team should be thinking about it? And the first thing I think it really changes is what I call content efficiency. It's the...'s the expectation of what we will yield from our content. Commonly, teams will walk in the door working with us and they will have five to ten percent of the content that they create generates a meaningful amount or hits their KPI, and that sounds super low, but it's right around the par for people's so I means they write ten articles to get one of them to perform and they've kind of accepted that that that's the way it's going to be. That's unbelievable, yes, but it's true. And so one thing that really we like to bring to like decision makers or see level is if you're publishing ten articles, you're publishing a hundred articles. The accepting the reality that five to ten of them are the only ones that are going to perform and that this is like rolling the dice and it's very hit and miss and inconsistent and unpredictable is a fallacy. With the right data you can hit thirty, forty, fifty. We've seen teams goes sixty, seventy percent of their content can hit the KPI. So just predictable performance is the biggest thing that people are dying for in content, where they really think that they're just, you know, swinging in the air and hoping to hit the of all and then updating existing content. Like everybody's got the embarrassing page right. So you've got your existing content inventory, you've got this page that gets a lot of traffic that you don't like anymore. It's outdated. It was like the spur of the moment page you wrote. So I've got these, like I love these. I have these like risk things, like imagine you had a page out there that hasn't been updated eight years, but it gets eighty percent of your traffic and you're afraid to touch it, you know. So we can actually build strategy for teams with our technology that maybe takes the risk off of those type of situations that very, very commonly pop up. So that's all right. So that's amazing. So when, okay, you mentioned something earlier I want to go back to, and that's a I generated content, or maybe a starting point. Some people out there now, anybody who's watched the social dilemma, it's probably a little bit scared of anything related to a IR algorithmic intent. So how how does that work? How do you just put in, say I want to write an article on male pattern baldness? I say that because anybody who see me knows I'm bald. And so then all of a sudden it brings back, does the research and cobbles together a starting point. Yeah, as a you know, as someone who is a eight plus year row game. You, I'll, I'll, I'll kind of bond with you there. But basically, what we're able to do. There are models out there that do template driven generation and that do like hybrids with templates. What we're able to do is really unique because we're able to, like, like I mentioned, we're able to build the model that says, what does it mean to be an expert on this topic? We're then able to build the brief and which you, as a content strategist, can validate and go, Yep,...

...this is the article I want to write, and then we can feed that into our system. We can train that system on your content. We can tune it for your content, we can tune it for, you know, any publisher. We can tune it on, you know, any data set, and what we can do is aim to answer the questions in that brief, aim to cover the topics in the brief and write content that's close to the way that you would have covered it, with the goal of what we call market Muse first draft and market Muse first draft is the intent behind that is to give kind of a starting point that then you can expand, you can tweak, you can improve on, and that's really what we've done. That is extremely innovative in the field there's a lot of stuff out there that's just like kind of generating, you know, garbage, or it's just generating piles of content or generating pretty good content or under small circumstances, that can do pretty well. But what we wanted to do is build controllable guard rail driven, you know, compliant content with what somebody would expect, with the intent of continue to improve on that so that if you were a contest strategist or you were a writer and you're sitting there like, man, I know I need to write eight articles about male pattern baldness. I did all this research, I know that these are the eight takes on this, but I'm not going to get that out for a month and a half. But I know exactly what I want to do. Well, I could work with Markmi's maybe I might write the one comprehensively based on what I wanted to cover and those eight support pieces may have been assisted so that I only had to edit them and expand them and focus on production value. So we're trying to do is make your subject matter experts and your editors into really superheroes that can cover the entire thing, and the inspiration of that is many publishers today have an LG and natural language generation solutions. Heliograph at the Washington Post has been around for over five years and one of my most one of my favorite references to that is when they used to cover the Olympic Games. They can only cover about ten percent of the events and using this solution, Helio gravits with an F if you want to look it up, they were able to cover every single event and then focus their editorial leaders and their subject matter experts on more feature pieces. So it can take and you know, same thing. They do the same with local and regional and and a federal and federal elections. You know, they're able to cover every single local election there. Wouldn't dream to be able to do that. You know, the tens of thousands of them. So it really gives you a superhero power. No one's ever been able to do that for content marketers until today. That we're doing with market these first draft interesting. Okay, and so that's an example of the New York Times. Can you give me a better, and not a better, a different example of how a client doesn't necessarily have to be around first draft? But as we put this all together and we think about, you know, content strategy and AI support for it and all that. Could give... an example of a client who's or customer who's been able to really turn this around on leverage this for serious impacts. We can kind of make it sticky for everybody. Oh, absolutely, and we have great, a great number of those case studies throughout our site. But I use a little bit of a abstract example of a typical experience with us using some real data, as we have a company, as a small startup, called CORTEX, and get Cortex, I believe. Is there? Gosh, I hope so, is there? You are? But YEA CORTEX. There a social media automation platform. They dove been management and all kinds of different amazing things with paid social. They had a relatively small content team and what we were able to do by implementing both a systematic way to optimize and expand existing content as well as a brief enabling briefs so that they could ensure that what they wrote was successful, we were able to put them in situation, I believe that they went in their first year working with us, they six times the traffic that they're generating and they're able to publish x the amount of content with the same people, and this is an alien. My first experience with market news. I'm the cofounder, but actually was one of the first customers of the earliest technology. I quintupled the traffic to one section of one of my websites in the first plan that I did and I was like Whoa, this works and I ended up being the cofounder. There's a little story that goes on between that. But yeah, so the it is a situation where, especially if you have, you know, a team, teams that are really performance driven or if you have a lot of content that hasn't been optimized, this can be groundbreaking. I mean it really can change the game you, especially if you've got stuff that you thought was going to do well and didn't, or maybe you got tenzero pages on your site and you're just like, I don't know where to start. We can tell you exactly where to start, what page to update tomorrow. That's going to have the biggest impact on your business, and that's really the special part of it. Wow, that's it's seriously impressive. As a writer, as a former marketer and a I kind of Geek about it all. Phenomenal to hear all this. So all right, let's let's change direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests two standard questions towards the end of Reachi interviument and has a chief strategy officer and cofounder. That makes you a target, or, excuse me, prospect for many people that are out there, and I'm always curious to know when somebody doesn't have a trusted referral and like it's not the network bringing you somebody. They're trying to earn the right to time when your counter what works best for you for somebody to the build the credibility necessary to earn the right to time on your calendar to have a conversation. I did work, three letters, three words. I did work and what I'm showing you is legitimate work that I did and the value that it brings. And I love the concept of showing show them. You know them right, but I really if I feel like the person sending me that note did actual physical work, did actual...

...mental work to build the message. For me, that's typically enough, even if it's not perfect, even if it's not hitting the mark, if it's appropriate for me and they've done some work, so they did work. That's my answer. I love it. I love it, it's and it's so true. All right, so last question. We call it our acceleration insight. If you have one piece of advice that you could give to sales and marketing professionals to make them more effective and be able to hit their targets, what would it be? And why? Stop talking about yourself, stop talking about preach, Stop Time An. You know, I know, it's my version of keep the solution in your pocket. Right. No, but it is. It's it may be really hard. You live in your own brain all day and really thinking critically about ways that you can show the value through your product, through your business, instead of with your product and with your business. Well said. Well said, Jeff. If a listeners interested in talking to you more about the topics, about ai or any of this, or if they're interested in learning more about market Muse, where's the ideal place for us to send them? My email is jeff at market Muscom. Jeffrey underscore coil on twitter. I'm very active on Linkedin Market Muse as well. Market Muse Co on twitter and we are also quite active there. We also have a community of content strategists called the content strategy collective at a slack community. If you want to have a exclusive invite there, shoot me a note at Jeff at market Muscom. I'll get you hooked up if you're you know, no matter what level, it's just kind of the mastermind for contest strategists. Love it Nice that, Jeff. I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and I really really valued the discussion. Excellent. All right, everybody that does of this episode, you know the drill be to be REV exactcom share the episode of Friends, family, Co workers, let your kids listen to it. Get away from the screens for a little bit. Until next time, we have value selling associate. It's with you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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