The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 8 months ago

Why Creating Content at Scale Is Easier with AI w/ Jeff Coyle


Everyone knows content is critical to success…

Yet so many struggle with creating content effectively at scale.

If you’re one of them, you may need to enlist the help of AI.

Today, I’m speaking with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse, about how content creators can draw upon the power of AI to maximize the return on their content investment.

We discuss how AI can help you:

  • Demonstrate your expertise
  • Create better content than your competitors
  • Easily differentiate your content in a crowded landscape

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Jeff Coyle, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer at MarketMuse.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated helpin executives, traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies, ore tools and resources, you'v come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: Welcome Ev, youwone to the B to be revenue executive experience. I'm your host ChatSanderson. Today we're talking about content more specifically how ai canaugment the content creation process. We all know content is critical. How weget it done on on scale in an a consistent way is a challenge soundslike hey. I may be able to help to discuss with us today we have Jeff COYLchief strategy officer at Market Mun Jeff. Thank you for taking the time andwelcome the show. Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on theshow with you. So before we jump in, we always like to ask a questions oraudience and get to know your a little bit better like to start with someone.You know what is something you're passionate about that those who onlyknow you through work or only know your work persona might be surprised tolearn about you, oh gosh. You know that there's there's when you, when you askthat type of question, there's so many things, but I do think that peoplemight be interested in my passion for content strategy, even though it isassociated with my work. I just I study everything. That's out there. I readeverything. So I'm just this consemption Aholic of content yea, Ikind of I' like to get deep into a topic. Ithink it's sometimes a little bit selfserving like I just want to knowall the random Trivia efects thats associate with something. So when Idive into a topic I just like to you know cover myself with information. I think,if you know, if you know me, but only in work, it just sometimes seems likeI've done way too much research, but it's usually actually kind of true onice excellent, and so I'm curious. Where did the where the passion for thecontent content critan process come from? You know it's interesting. Inever thought that that would be where it would land, but I was a computerscience. You know that's where I got my degree from college and I worked with acompany early stage. I was telling leads to be to B technology companiesfrom one tousand, nine hundred and ninety nine, two thousand to twothousand and seven with a company called knowledge storgthe ar one of thefirst companies that was selling leads to NBTOB The you know, contentsyndication, but at that time nobody was even really thinking about contentor content strategy and we were acquired by a publisher who alsosollite's called tech target who many of your listeners may be familiar with,and they had a large, really amazing editorial team. And I to up to thatpoint I really didn't have to think about itorial. It was all aboutsyndicating white papers and Brosherwo, basically co in Broshure War and casestudies and such and I learned that...

...there was a lot more to the editorialprocess than I really understood, and it wouldn't be acceptable for me tojust shoe lists of keyworks to them, because at the time I was just personin charge of traffic in charge of generating generating traffic for thesize in charge of like making sure we, you know, made the lead commitmentsthat we had promised for clients, and so I just really spent years trying tolearn these manual content processes with the goal and as it as it happens,with the goal trying to you know, automate a lot of the more painful ones.So my passion really comes from having seen having you know, delivered data unsuccessfully to editorial leadershipand then learn all of the manual processes and brainstorming, and youknow hunch and subjective decisions that are made in that field and nowmarket Mus is you know, trying to bring data driven decisions to that samegroup? So that's amazing and it's amazing how different things you know:kind of connect and pull us all in I'm a huge. Now, I'm a I'm not anywherenear an expert. I just find ai and everything that goes behind it.Absolutely incredible. We had meal Showda on the show, a while back forthose listenings, the you and ambassador for artificial intelligencefor good t, an one of the creators of Watson, I'm curious, you know, contentcreation, a lot of people will think of it as very much an individual humankind of thing. You know we need to do videos, we need to do whit papers, it'sthe presentation of ideas, I'm curious how AI plugs into this to to augmentthat process yeah. So there's I like to think of the as a bit of a a circleright. If you're thinking about this in your brain as a visual, you have aresearch process. How are you going to research what you should write or maybewhat you should update and what goes into that? That can be very manual. Itcan be very unintuitive, especially if you're a subject, abouter expert or youare, you know, being assigned to write something. The planning anpriortization is a big piece that we use artificial intelligence to assessreally if you've got a collection of content. We want that collection ofcontent on your site or wherever to tell the story that you are an expertto get across the messages that you want to get across. To exhibit that youare the Authority to grow trust with your audience. You know: That's thesecret of building a great online presence is someone reads that reads:Your content says: Oh, this is clearly written by someone that knows whatthey're doing and then you're also providing them with other informationand other content that maybe one click away. That is answering their next fewquestions getting them. You know, as it were further in the bicycle, deeperinto an information gathering, process, etc. So we use it for planning. In thatway, we also, you know, try to establish data driven single sources oftruth. The way that we do this quite often is in the form of a content.Brief, so something where you say, I want to write an article about this. Wecan generate a content brief that then,...

...that person can validate it and thenhand it to the writer, so the writer and the person who's ordering thatcontent item or that content strategist or that demand gen lead you're on thesame pate there's a single source of truth. So the person- that's writing.It doesn't have to focus on t stuff they're, not good at or that they hate.You know the Kewor, research or, or you know, coming up with a good. You knoworganizational process. They can just focus on being creative and showingthat they know this better than anyone else. They can focus on theircustomization on the video production quality they're, not necessarily doingwork for purposes that they don't really appreciate or desire. Anyway,you know for Grasco, you know, because my background's in that search, Engonotsmisation space and really what I would like to bring is that singlesource of truth for writers and content strategists, and then we really take itto the next stage and we get into n even getting E. giving solutions foreditors- let's say you receive a draft from someone, and you want to validatethat. It is that which is written by an expert that it answers common questionsthat it is comprehensive. We have ways for we have objective measures ofquality and comprehensiveness, so we can actually say yep this. Thisvalidates this is a great article or actually here a few blind spikers. Youshould have covered this, that n, the other you know and and we can give thatfeedback back to the riner and then with some of our new technology. Westarted to generate content, to provide inspiration for writers and giving themkind of extra superpowers to execat ten more successfully opso an that createsa big circle. You know we're talking about, so it sounds like if I'm hearingit right it. U sounds like we were talking about jusing Ai, to offload thethings where quality of execution may suffer, because it isn't a focal pointor a passion point for the individuals that have to do it as part of thecontent creation process. It allows them to hopefully be more efficient,generate higher quality content, because they're focused on the thingsthat they are the most excited about, rather than relying on and realizing itI'm going to have to go. Do these other other things I don't want to, and thenthe quality of that execution can sometimes suffer. Is that a fairassessment yeah absolutely and with withwith like I'd, say three additionallike bonus points in there? One is a predictive return on investment,knowing the likelihood of success as far as generating organic traffic of acontent item before you write, it is a truly unfair advantage. The secondbeing you never have to publish content that isn't better than your competitoranymore. From the standpoint of qualitying comprehensiveness, there isno reason for ou. Do ever publish a conts and Aam on te topic and have itnot be equal to or better than your competitors, and that's the type ofthing that we kind of validate we're able to give you the confidence to write toyour expertise and know how successful that its going to be, or maybe it's notdirectly successful, but it's acting as...

...scaffolding for a greater plan like hey,we want to own this topic. We want to own consultative selling. How do we dothat? How do we go from where we are today to owning that topic? What arethe things we need to cover whate of the user intent profiles? What are thepersonas we need to speak to, and then we know we have to build these eightyarticles this month or this year to achieve that goal of owning thatspecific topic. So we do all of the above wow, okay. So at so much I coulddive into the the the competitive analysis piece like making sure we'rewriting better were putting up better content than the competition help meunderstand how that how that happens? What are the criteria hows? Itevaluated and what's the feedback loop look like there so the way we can dothat is, if you look at it just as a head to heat page to page right, we canlook at one page and tell you whether it is comprehensive on a particulartopic and cost give you the gaps where you should have written what things youshould have written about, that you didn't what we would carget as far asquality and comprehensin this length, things that should have been covered.So if you imagine we can do that for you, we can do that for any other page.So Weu can put you head to head against the specific direct competitor or inyour case maybe a publisher who's. Also writing about the same topic. Do youimagine we can do that at the page level? Well, we can do it across abunch of pages, so you can look at an entire market to analyze. One topic: Wehave to look at tens of thousands of pages wee. Don't just look at fivepages, we're trying to look at everything. That's ever been written onthe subject just like I was talking about t the top of the show right andwe analyze all of that, and we distil it into this kind of golden model. Thatsays anyone who knows anything about value selling is going to know thesethings. If you don't mention those things, it means you're, not really anexpert, and so you can see that the other cool thing is it's not just aboutwhat a couple people are: writing it's not just about, maybe with a topperformers in organic searcher. Writing so oftentimes we'll find things thatare very, very relevant that noone is talking about. So when you are giventhat information. If you write about those underserved related concepts, youare immediately differentiated, so we're not just looking to be likeeveryone else, we're looking to be like everyone else and then also extremelydifferentiated. So you get all that information, distilled in one viewanytime, you're researching anything, so you kind of have that game plan donefor you, wow, okay, and so how does this? How does he ability to to havethese insights and stuff? How does it change the way a company should viewtheir content strategy? You know because if you gier up, you go sealevel, probably more concerned about profit and business goals, and thingslike that they're not going to you start talking content strategy andprobably going to have some eye glazing over oh yeah. How does it impact? I washaving the ability to have this type of insight, change the impact or changethe content creation strategy itself for the way the team should be thinkingabout it. The first thing I think it reallychanges, is what I call content...

...efficiency, it's the it's theexpectation of what we will yield from our content. Commonly teams will walkin the door working with us and they will have. You know five to ten percentof the content that they create, generates a meaningful amount or hitstheir KPI and TAT sounds Super Low, but it's right around the par for people'sso means they write ten articles to get one of them to perform and they've kindof accepted that that that's the way it's going to be. That's unbelievable,yes, but it's true, and so one thing that really we like to bring to likedecision makers or ce level is, if you're publishing ten articles, you'republishing a hundred articles, the accepting the reality that five to tenof them are the only ones that are going to performin that this is like rolling the dice and it's very hitden, miss andinconsistent and unpredictable is a fallacy. With the right data you canhit thirty Fort Fifty we've seen teams go sixty. Seventy percent of theircontent can hit the KPI, so just predictable performance is the biggestthing that people are dying for in content where they really think thatthey're, just you know swinging in the air and hoping to hit the ball and then updating existing content.Like everybody's got the embarrassing page right so you've got your existingcontent. Inventory you' got this page. That gets a lot of traffic that youdon't like anymore. It's outdated. It was like the SPURLA moment page, youwrote so I've got these like I love these. I have these like risk thingslike imagine. You had a page out there that hasn't been update in eight years,but it gets eighty percent of your traffic and you're afraid to touch it.You know, so we can actually build strategy for teams with our technologythat maybe takes the risk off of those typefil of situations that very very commonly pop up. So that's alll right.SO THAT'S AMAZING! So when okay, you mentioned something earlier, I want togo back to and that's a I generated content or maybe a starting point. Somepeople out there now anybody who's watched, the social dilema is probablya little bit scared of anything related to Aior, algorithmic intent. So how?How does that work? How do you you just put in ad, say hey? I want to write anarticle on male pattern. Baldness. I say that because anybody who seem meknows I'm Bolb and so then, all of a sudden it brings back. Does theresearch and cobbles together a starting point yeah as a you know, assomeone who is a eightplus year, rowgame you I'll kind of bond with you there, butbasically what we're able to do there are models out there that do templatedriven generation that do like hybrids with templets. What we're able to do isreally uniqe as we're able to like, like I mentioned, we're able to buildthe model that says what does it mean to be an expert on this topic? We'rethen able to build the brief and which you as a a content, strategist, canvalida and go yep. This is the article...

I want to write and then we can feedthat into our system. We can train that system on your content. We can tune itfor your content. We can tune it, for you know any publisher. We can tune iton. You know any Dataset and what we can do is aim to answer the questionsin that brief aim to cover the topics in the brief and write content, that'sclose to the way that you would have covered it with the goal of what wecall market Mus. First draft and market Mus. First draft is the intent behindthat is to give kind of a starting point that then you can expand, you cantweak you can improve on and that's really what we've done. That isextremely innovative in the field. There's a lot of stuff out there,that's just like kind of generating you know garbage or it's just generatingpiles of content ors, generating pretty good content or under smallcircumstances. That can do pretty well. But what we wanted to do as buildcontrollable guard rail driven. You know compliant content with whatsomebody would expect with the intent of continuing to improve on that, sothat if you were a contest strategist or you were a writer and you weresitting there like man, I know I need to write eighd articles about male Pol pattern.Balnis. I did all this research. I know that these of the Haite takes on this,but I'm not going to get that out for a month and a half, but I know exactlywhat I want to do well, I could work with markmes. Maybe I might write theone comprehensively based on what I wanted to cover and those eighthsupport pieces may have been assisted so that I only had to edit them andexpand them and focus on production value. So what we're trying to do ismake your subject matter. Experts and your editors into really superheroes.That can cover the entire thing and the inspiration of that is many. Publisherstoday have MLG and natural language generation solutions. Heliograph at theWashington Post has been around for over five years and one of my most oneof my favorite references to that is when they used to cover the OlympicGames. They cound only cover about ten percent of the events and using thissolution. Heliograb is with an Aff. If you want to look it up, they were ableto cover every single event and then focus their editorial leadersand their subject. metter experts on more feature pieces, so it can take andthe same thing they do the same: Wowith, local and regional and and EFETERA andfederal elections. You know they're able to cover every single localelection. There wouldn't dream to be able to do that. You know the tons ofthousands of them, so it really gives you a superhero power. No one's everbeen able to do that for content marketers until today that we're doingwith Marke Muse. First draft interesting, okay, and so that's anexample of the NEWR times. Can you give me the better, not a better, adifferent example of how a client doesn't necessarily have to be aroundfirst draft, but as we put this all together and we think about you- know,content strategy and AI support for it,...

...and all of that could give us anexample of a client who's. Wor customers been able to really turn thisround and Lever Eist for serious impact, so we can kind of make it sticky foreverybody. Oh absolutely- and we have great a great number of those case-studies throughout our site, but I use a a little bit of a abstract example ofof a typical experience with us. Using some real Dataas, we have acompany, was small startup called CORTEX and get Cortex, I believe. IsThere Gosh? I hope so. Is there youre a but the courtdex there, a social media,automation platform? They do bid management an all kinds of differentamazing things with with paid social, they had a relatively small contentteam and what we were able to do by implementing both the systematic way tooptimize and expand existing content, as well as a brief enabling briefs, sothat they could ensure that what they wrote was successful, weere able to putthem in situation. I believe that they went in the first year working with us,they six times the traffic that they're generating and they are able to publishthreex the amount of content with the same people, and this is an alien. Myfirst experience with Markamus I'm the cofounder, but actually was one of thefirst customers of the earliest technology. I quintopulled the trafficto one section of one of my websites in the first plan that I did and I waslike Whoa. This works an I ended up being the cofounder there's a littlestory that goes on between that, but yeah. So the it is a situation where,especially, if you have you know, a team teams that are really performance,driven or wou have a lot of content that hasn't been optimized. This can be groundbreaking. I mean it really canchange the game, especially if you've got stuff that you thought was going todo well and didn't, or maybe you've got ten thousand pages on your site andyou're. Just like I don't know where to start. We can tell you exactly where tostart what page to update tomorrow, that's going to have the biggest impacton your business and that's really the special part of it. Wow Tha, that's seriously impressive,as a writer as a former marketer and then Ey, I kind of Gik about it allphenomenal to hear all this. So all right, let's, let's Change Directionhere, a little bit. We ask all of our guests two standard questions towardsthe end of reach interviewing and has a chief strategy officer and cofounder.That makes you a target or excuse me prospect for many people that are outthere and I'm always curious to know when somebody doesn't have a trusted.Referralin like it's, not the network, bringing Yo somebody they're trying toearn the right to time hen your counter, what works best for you for somebody tobuild the credibility necessary to earn the right to time on your calendar tohave a conversation. I did work three letter. Three words Idid work and what I'm showing you is legitimate work that I did and thevalue that it brings and I love the concept of showing t show him. You knowm right, but I really, if I feel like...

...the person sending me that note didactual physical work did actual mental work to build the message. For me,that's typically enough, even if it's not perfect, even if it's not hittingthe mark, if it's appropriate for me and they've done some work, so they didwork. That's my answer. I love it. I love it it's and it's so true, sorigt,so e last question: We Calle it our acceleration insight. If you have onepiece of advice that you could give to sales of marketing professionals tomake them more effective and be able to hit their targets. What would it be?And why stop talking about yourself? Stop talking about preach,stop talking about HAVEA head eny now I know it's my version of keep thesolution in your pocket right O, but it is it's. It may be really hard. You live in yourown brain all day and really thinking critically about ways that you can show the valuethrough your product through your business instead of withyour product and with your business well said well, said: Jeffif be listersinterested in talking to you more about these topics: Bout, ai or any of this,or, if they're interested in learning more about market Mus where's the ideaplace for us to send them. My email is jeff at Marketmuscom, Jeffreyunderscore, coil on twitter, I'm very active on linkedin market muws as well,Markan Musi, Co on twitter and we are also quite active there. We also have acommunity of content strategists called the content strategy. Collective, it'sa slack community. If you want to have a exclusive inbite, there shoot mea note at Jeff at Marken, Muscom and I'll get you hooked up. If you're, youknow no matter what level it's just kind of the the mastermind for contest,stratists love it Nic than JEM. I can't think you enough for being on the showtoday I's been great conversation. Thank you so much, it's been a pleasureand I really really valued the discussion. Excellent, all right,everybody that does it with this episode. You know the drill, BTBrevezaccom, sure the episode Woth Friends, Family Coworkers, let yourkids listen to it, get them away from the screens for a little bit until nexttime we have va selling Associa wishyou, nothing, but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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