The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Why Authenticity Is the Key to Personalization at Scale w/ Nick Casale


Personalization is one of the most effective tools for any seller.

Yet, scaling it often proves an enormous challenge. Why is that?

Because without authenticity, personalization is meaningless.

To find out why, I turned to the expert on personalization, Nick Casale, Director of Sales at Sendoso, a selling platform facilitating sending just about anything you could imagine to your prospects, customers, or employees.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • How Sendoso helps sellers personalize at scale
  • Why authenticity is the key to personalization at scale
  • How the pandemic underscores the importance of a personal touch

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Nick Casale, Director of Sales at Sendoso.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

There's so many platforms you can use now to sort of pseudo personalizes scale. What I really break it down to now, and what we challenge our my team, and are our customers to do, is to think about authenticity and doing that at a reasonable scale. You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about how to more effectively engaged prospects, how to drive personalization at scale, and I'm not going to miss the opportunity to touch on why I start up founders need to understand sales. As we all know, that's a hot button topic for me. To help us, we have with this Nick Kassale, director of sales at Sendoso. Nick, thank you so much for taking time and welcome to the show, Chad. Thank you for having me so well. I was like to start with a little icebreaker and it's just an opportunity found it for the audience to get to know you a little bit better as a person. Kind of been on this kick lately. I don't know why, I'm just understanding something that our guests are passionate about that our listeners might be surprised to learn. Yeah, absolutely so. One thing I've been involved in for the past couple of years that I'm really passionate about is something called the cannon project, which was started by a friend of mine, and the sort of larger mission of helping students, while they're still in university, understand that startups, and specifically startup sales, is a career path. It might sound silly, but no one stops to tap you on the shoulder sophomore, junior year college and tell you that you can go to a company you've never heard of in San Francisco, orever it might be, and you know, go build something special. Those those companies just don't make it too to campus. is to recruit. That one of the resources, and so a lot of friends of mine have gone into more traditional career paths, you know, consulting, finance, and then pivoted later to start ups. Once they found out that was an option. So I love, you know, working with Mila Water Boston College, hosting college students coming out to San Francisco, showing them around the office and setting them up at some other startups to really open their eyes to this wonderful role of startups. But it's exposing them two things they wouldn't have known where they're. Like you said, they don't come to campus and there's so many albums out there startups if you know, if you know where to look. But at that age, so probably don't. And then I'm curious that when you get involved with them, to any of them many that ages, they don't. They're not, it's concerned about of any of them worried about start up risk. When you're talking with the young guns, they do. Yeah, and it's something where I sort of challenge them to ask yourself, you know, what is the worst case scenario here? And I think for most people your appetite for risk should be the highest your one out of college and probably go down from there. Right you know you're not going to have you don't have kids, you don't have a mortgage. Probably you might have some student loans. That's obvious. Something to consider. But there is a little bit of that. You know, hey, if you're gonna throw the deep ball, is the time to do it right. Absolutely so. All right, so let's start with just for context for the audience, just an overview of kind of brief overview of what Sin Doso does so that we've got some context for our conversation. Yeah, absolutely so. SINDOSO's a setting platform. So we basically facilitate the process of sending just about anything to your prospects, customers, employees. So that could be, you know, five dollar starbucks Gift Card, a branded Patagonia, or we've been integrate with Amazon, so you can speak a mile MoD someone. Could go on. There be our integration sending the Boston college mud. And actually, just yesterday we announced that we've released a cameo integration, so you could send someone a video or snoop dog pitching...

...on your product or whatever that might be. I'm really excited about that one. Has Anybody done that yet? Can? I'm that can't, because the cameo thing, I thinks, relatively new in terms of scaling it. But have you obviously tested it, I would assume. So dive into that a little bit, because that is. That's extremely interesting. Yeah, so, you know, we actually borrow this idea from the people over it gong super creative CR and sales organization, and they realize, and kind of getting creative and getting tactical, that there was this really cool platform called Cameo where you could you hire anyone from like Robert Herjevac to snoop dog to the guy who does the dress comas from Silicon Valley, if you've seen that show, and they'll basically say whatever you whenever you kind of put in the comments and it ends up being, you know, really funny and definitely stands out and as numberable. And so they were going on a cameo and spending all this money and setting people stuff, but you know, you're having to go over the platform, you're having a copy paste links see if they opened it. It's disjoint it, it's its own. You got to expense it after the fact and there's no tracking on it. And that's really why people use and Doso for anything. Right and and that's what I love to tell people is, you know, hey, if you're not sure the stuff works, you know, don't don't take it from me, don't buy Sendoh, so you hat go test this on your own and you're going to figure out two things. One, that it works and to that it's a pain in the butt if you don't have a platform to facilitate it. So we got a lot of places you have to go exactly. So yeah, to answer your question, you know, we almost everything we build is is an idea. We borrow from our customer stuff they've seen work and we integrate into the platform and try to streamline form. And so obviously your team, you know you're sales team, is using, I would assume, the platform and using this in their prospecting efforts. personalization at scale is a huge challenge for a lot of organizations and so I'm curious to dive a little bit into how your team's leveraging that. Only your own tools, or maybe you're guiding them to optimize their prospecting motion and can deal with that personalization at scale challenge. Yeah, really glad you brought this point up. It's funny. I actually talked to Jeremy Donovan over it sales latch about this a couple weeks ago and we were sort of bloiling it down to is the personalization at scale has become, I think, really tired in a lot of ways, and I'm sure you've received a lot of correspondence that is sort of inlignement that personalization at scale model where it's, you know, a first name, notice blank, whatever it might be, where they're sort of just those data inputs, and there's so many platforms you can use now to sort of pseudo personalized a scale. What I really break it down to now, and what we challenge our my team and our customers to do is to think about authenticity and doing that at a reasonable scale. Right, you don't, you don't want to sacrifice the quality there for the quantity, of course, but how do you go beyond personalization to try to actually make an authentic connection? That's a big sum. Just I'm processing that for second. So that's a big so the question becomes, how do you do that and still maintain the level of activity not necessary to fill the pipeline or achieved whatever objectives the organization is set? Yeah, well, and and I'll tell you, I think if you think about this way, if you're firing off ten emails to a friend, you can get that done incredibly quickly because you're not as worried maybe about things like word choice or where you capitalize or even small things like grammar. I'm I think it can train in here. I think the more that you are yourself and communicate from that place of authenticity, the more that the recipient is going to see you as being authentic and being sort of a real human being, in a real person with with you know, your own personality, you own flavor, and the message is...

...just going to come across more authentic and it's going to naturally feel more personalized, because marketing. Let Marketing do their thing. Right, marketing, those their emails. You're you're not. You're not a MARQUETTO email blast right. So you know why? Why be focused on hyper scale, you know, hyper polished, personalized. That's and I think people also talk a lot about this and this is its own rabbit holding get down to. But with obviously AI and all the technology that's going to that's already innovatd a ton and will continue to. Where does the human fit within all this? Right, because there is, there's probably a tool that's less than twelve months away where you could plug it into your sales force and it can send a personalize email that everyone multi step whatever. So where does the human come into play here and what can we do that machines can and I think that's the authenticity piece and that's where I'm excited about. Yeah, and it makes sense, I mean because the automation is not hard to pick up. I mean, even as the tech of balls, it's still I haven't seen anything that I haven't been able to look at and go either. This was a templed out of out of something like sales after outreach that just dropped in some key, you know, phrases, my name or name of the coming or whatever. I haven't seen anything that has the ability to get to that anywhere near that authentic level. But being authentic in communication and outreach there's a skill set to that that really more on the human side. So when you're looking for hiring or coaching sales individuals, what types of behaviors and skills are you looking for? Ways are, you know, testing their ability to be authentic in their communications? Yeah, it's a really great point. I think self awareness is it the KI is at the heart of it all in terms of understanding. You know, if you tell someone, Hey, just be authentic with it today, have a you know what I mean, they know what that means. Yeah, does that land? And what is their authentic personality? Right? And I don't necessarily care. I'm not looking for a specific profile of authenticity and in fact it's incredibly important to me to have a diverse team where everyone has their own flavor of that. But if you're someone who uses really, you know, colorful language is really expressive in a motive, go lead with that. If you're someone I mean we have an str one of our best gunning David Denver. Shout Out David. He's awesome and he is the most high energy guy that you'll ever meet and he's gifts and caps letters and that's who he is and slack, that's he is an internal emails and we love seeing him be like that with prospects of customers, because you get those emails and it just jumps out of your inbox because it doesn't look like the nine other templated things you have. It's so much emotion authenticity that you just can't help but feel that right. It comes through, it translates. Yeah, and have you seen so that kind of authenticity combined with using Sindoso? Can you paint kind of a picture of how your teams are kind of combining that for a campaign based or cadence based or sequence bace, whatever we're doing. He is I'll reach approach. Yeah, absolutely, so, I think again, you know I'm going to be a dead horse here, but it goes back to being authentic and leveraging sendo so as just their channel, and I think the authenticity should carry through all channels you use, and the obvious ones for people our phone and email, right. So that's what we just talked about. With email. I think the phone piece is pretty straightforward. Don't be a robot when you call someone and then we send those. All we're doing is is enabling a new channel for people. So, Hey, look, you can send an email, you can make a phone call, you can also send stuff too, and that's what we open up the doors to. Is, you know, you can send someone branded golf tees from their Alma Mater if you find out their golfer. You can send them, you know,...

...a lunch gift card if you know they're going to have a busy day and they're back to back or if they're doing you a favor and taking the meeting you have during what you know their lunch our right. So it's really just this sort of Pandora's box of options for making that human connection and especially now, you know, I can't emphasize it's enough with I know I am feeling the burnout and the effect of not being able to get on a plane and go meet with my my prospects and customers and every I think everyone is sort of hurting as a result of that right. There's no conferences, is no trade shows, there's no handshake with the prospect, no matter how big the deal is. And so how do you try to replace that just a little bit? And have you seen big changes? I mean, obviously you know the pen them changed everything for a lot of people. Changes in kind of people's response when they receive something, or you could be a potentially increased challenge of finding out where to send them stuff, because a lot of people learn it their offices are at home. Have you run into any of that and, if so, have you dealt with it? Yeah, so I'll give you sort of two answers. The first is from a little bit more of just the logistics of actually sending items. So we, through our platform, let you prompt an email to someone or a little link you can put in your own email and that'll just say, Hey, I'm sending you over something, let me know what address to send it to. And you know, we're sought to compliant. We that data is never stored. In fact, our clients cannot see the address that their prospects put an even if they wanted to. It's all completely secure, but that gives that that sort of power of choice and flexibility, so someone can sort of both opt into receiving the item and put in the preferred address. That's obviously, you know, invaluable right now. And then the other piece of it is, I think, leading with empathy. It's something that we've seen be incredibly powerful the past couple months, and so that's a rising things like charity donations. It's a rise in recognizing people's reality. And again, all this is sort of I think, once you have the the right to leverage this information. But say you're on a Zom call with someone and they've got, you know, kids jumping up in the background or there's a dog barking. Starting to recognize their reality and appreciating that people are inviting you into their homes now, and I think that's a responsibility as a seller to recognize that, to appreciate it and to be real about the fact that things are different and you're selling to, you know, a person that's dealing with unique challenges and any unique reality right now, and so how can you try to make that connection by recognizing those things? Yeah, it's a it is a highly emotionally charged environment right now and you have to really careful about understanding that everybody's experiencing it differently. Some, maybe, some you know, like myself, have had probably losses from the pandemic. Others have maybe haven't been directly touched other than the lockdown, but are still in an environment where they're isolated. It creates a drastic increase for the need for empathy. Have you found a way? I have not successfully found a way to teach it, to teach empathy, to help someone slow down enough to understand you are dealing with the human being. I'm curious, when you're hiring or you're coaching your team's how you might reinforce that with them, because they themselves are also going through this. And so how do you how do you kind of bridge that gap and kind of level level set the field? I think it's all about the tone that you set and that the entire leadership team in sets, and I think it's coming from a place of a trust that the people that you hired to do a job are doing the job, but also not being tone deaf in those moments. Right,...

...and a few of the I'll give you an example. You know, we to buy or a couple weeks ago they miss a meeting and so you know the reds, sort of trying to explain, trying to figure out what happened. As a manager, you could say, look, we had this on the meat on the calendar. It's a key deal, you know, as a key deal for your quarter. You know, did you set the agenda? Did you do all the things you need to do? And you can sort of come down them or you can take a step back and say, let's assume that you did do all all the things right, there could be something else going on and you set that tone of let's just sort of seek to understand here, and we come to find out the person ended up having child care for the evening fall through. Right. And so I think that as long as your employees, and Simon sneck talks a ton about this and I think he's a brilliant billing. Author and thought leader here is Ted talks. Are Great, as books are great leaders. He lasts their favorite of mine. When your employees feel safe, they will do their best work. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And so have have you had challenges? Like how is just that of curiosity? How has sent Doso found business changing for them in the middle of this, where as we go through this kind of new situation and the pandemic and stuff, what changes have you had to make across the organization, aside from you mentioned not traveling, but I'm curious what other ways of you proactively tackle it to ensure that the employees feel safe and continue the hopefully the growth trajectory. Again, it's a really good point and I would say honestly that it's something that we're still figuring out. It is it works. The work in progress. Yeah, it's a complete work in progress and I think it it requires starting at a at a point of we don't know how to do this, and that that sort of again self awareness and the recognition that there's not a playbook for this and we're going to figure out as we go and being up front with the employees on that. To write, because one of the most frustrating things is when leadership, I think, pretends that everything is figured out and there is a playbook, ether is a system, and I think that can really deteriorate trust. We're another hand, sort of just opening your arms and saying to the team or to employees, we're going to all figure this out together and we don't know and we need to hear from you what you need and we'll do our best to support that. But this is going to be a conversation, it's not going to be a series of orders. Absolutely it has to be collaborative. I think I've seen, I mean as much as we're all, you know, dealing with the zoom fatigue. Yeah, the organizations that enable that collaboration, that rely on and listen to their employees, I think have a tendency to whether much better than those that kind of have that fear based reaction where they clamped down, at least from at least from what I've seen so far. So glad to hear that that's kind of the approach that's and DOSOS taken. So any stats that you might have or insight into kind of how effective things were pre covid versus how your teams are doing today in terms of leveraging those multiple channels. Always like to see if there's, you know, things that you're seeing, your trends that you're seeing as things are changing and involving absolutely and it's been interesting to just see this shift in how our customers think about metrics and the things that are important to them. And so, you know, of course, it's something where our pre covid we're talking about increasing response rate. It's right and we'll tell you know, talk to clients and they'll say, hey, we're getting, you know, four times better responsors than we're getting before, or our emails are getting two percent engagement rate. We're sine one Thousan, fifteen to twenty with sindows right, and we're still seeing metrics sort of in line with that. Really strong in terms of the engagement piece. If you send someone an offer to send them something, they'll confirm their address their sixty five percent of the time, which is phenomenal and really gives opportunity... make sure you're being conscious about spend right now because, of course, precovid, if you're sending something to an office, there's always a chance it gets lost, right, and now we're saying, let's get the address from the recipient. So you're making sort of a double opt in going on there, where they're saying sure, I'll receive something. That's engagement in itself, and then when they receive something, is that second tier of engagement. The part that I think sort of one layer deeper is that's really interesting right now with the people we talked to, is back to trade shows being canceled. That was a really core piece of the way that most marketing teams were getting their leads pipeline. There, you know, metrics for the year and that's how they were hitting goals. And so we talked these markers all day and I think together we're sort of figuring out that you can't just go spend more on Marquetto and get more out of it right. There's there's sort of an absolute limit to the amount that you can spend until and I give the analogy of you think about digital channels right like let's just use email or ads, for example, and obviously we're all inundated with all of these things, but it's a congested highway that suddenly has more cars trying to get onto it all of a sudden because it's the only option. Yeah, I saw a stat somewhere just regular email, like open rates pre covid globally were around thirty to thirty six percent globally, and then when covid hit, I saw stats that it had dropped until like six percent. Because, I mean, just think about I haven't run the analysis on my owning box, but I can tell you that email exploded once you stopped all getting on planes and stuff. Think about that. The inundation of sorting you have to do this going through stuff, what it takes to get somebody's attention. I like the double opt in. That also gets you around privacy concerns, I would assume, considering we've got, what is it, the California Consumer Privacy Protection I, which is a lovely piece of legislation that has big risks for organizations. So to set that up and be able to provide that to organizations, I think is a definite win, especially when we're in an ever evolving business environment. So well done. Want to change direction here a little bit. We ask all of our guests kind of two standard questions at the end of each interview. The first is simply, as a sales leader, that probably makes you a prospect for other people. So there's probably people trying to get in front of you and get your attention. Always curious to understand what works best. If somebody doesn't have a referral, like they don't know somebody that you know and send somebody you trust. What works best for you for them to capture your attention and earn time, to earn the rights time on your calendar. This is a softball, come on. Well, I know, I know, I hope, I hope you are consistent in your answers, because I have I have a bat. But yeah, I want to hear. I'm one hand again for the guests, of course. So, Hey, I'm always I'm obviously going to say, you know, try to send me something, get my attention and if that's not something that you have the resources to do, again, be authentic, right, be yourself, and the difference is is so obvious on the receiving end when you're getting a tempered email someone else wrote, versus someone really trying to be themself in there and their messaging and they think. For me, that makes all the difference. Absolutely agree, one hundred percent. All right. So now let'm going to alter our last question. A little bit because I know what I would say if I were you. So I'm going to change it up just a little bit. We call it our acceleration insight. If there was one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional services people, aside from being authentic, one thing you could tell them, thus I've being authentic, that you believe, with they listened to it, would change the course of them hitting their targets. What would it be, and why? So my number one piece of advice would be, I'll go I'll go a little bit of a different direction here on this. Authenticity is is the drama. I've been beating this the whole podcast here.

But I'll say seek to understand right that on a sticky note and put it on your desk and every time someone gives you an answer or you feel yourself maybe going through the motions on a call, really challenge yourself to seek to understand where that answers coming from, what someone's dealing with, the position the organization might be in so many things right start to try to really fill in that portrait of what is this person dealing with? What are the peripherals? What are they really how can I help hear what are they trying to get out of this and really challenge yourself not to get your discovery questions answered or to meet your objectives, but to really understand. Absolutely love it. All right, Nick. If a listeners interested in more information on Sen Doso or connecting with you, where do you prefer we send them? You have a preferred outlet for us? Send Osacom. You can hit us up on Linkedin. I am Nick A. Sendosacom if you want to flood by handbox. We we're pretty easy get in touch with. All right, nick, I can't thank you enough for taking time. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show chat. I really appreciate thanks for taking the time. All right, everybody that does of this episode, you know the drill be to be REV exactcom share with friends, family, Co workers. Let your kids listening to it. It's better for him than screen time. Until next time we will talk. We wish you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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