The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Why Authenticity Is the Key to Personalization at Scale w/ Nick Casale


Personalization is one of the most effective tools for any seller.

Yet, scaling it often proves an enormous challenge. Why is that?

Because without authenticity, personalization is meaningless.

To find out why, I turned to the expert on personalization, Nick Casale, Director of Sales at Sendoso, a selling platform facilitating sending just about anything you could imagine to your prospects, customers, or employees.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • How Sendoso helps sellers personalize at scale
  • Why authenticity is the key to personalization at scale
  • How the pandemic underscores the importance of a personal touch

This post includes highlights of our podcast interview with Nick Casale, Director of Sales at Sendoso.

For the entire interview, you can listen to The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, we suggest this link.

There's so many platforms you can usenow to sort of pseudo personalizes scale. What I really break it down tonow, and what we challenge our my team, and are our customers todo, is to think about authenticity and doing that at a reasonable scale.You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives traintheir sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniquesand strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place.Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BTob Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we'retalking about how to more effectively engaged prospects, how to drive personalization at scale,and I'm not going to miss the opportunity to touch on why I startup founders need to understand sales. As we all know, that's a hotbutton topic for me. To help us, we have with this Nick Kassale,director of sales at Sendoso. Nick, thank you so much for taking timeand welcome to the show, Chad. Thank you for having me so well. I was like to start with a little icebreaker and it's just anopportunity found it for the audience to get to know you a little bit betteras a person. Kind of been on this kick lately. I don't knowwhy, I'm just understanding something that our guests are passionate about that our listenersmight be surprised to learn. Yeah, absolutely so. One thing I've beeninvolved in for the past couple of years that I'm really passionate about is somethingcalled the cannon project, which was started by a friend of mine, andthe sort of larger mission of helping students, while they're still in university, understandthat startups, and specifically startup sales, is a career path. It mightsound silly, but no one stops to tap you on the shoulder sophomore, junior year college and tell you that you can go to a company you'venever heard of in San Francisco, orever it might be, and you know, go build something special. Those those companies just don't make it too tocampus. is to recruit. That one of the resources, and so alot of friends of mine have gone into more traditional career paths, you know, consulting, finance, and then pivoted later to start ups. Once theyfound out that was an option. So I love, you know, workingwith Mila Water Boston College, hosting college students coming out to San Francisco,showing them around the office and setting them up at some other startups to reallyopen their eyes to this wonderful role of startups. But it's exposing them twothings they wouldn't have known where they're. Like you said, they don't cometo campus and there's so many albums out there startups if you know, ifyou know where to look. But at that age, so probably don't.And then I'm curious that when you get involved with them, to any ofthem many that ages, they don't. They're not, it's concerned about ofany of them worried about start up risk. When you're talking with the young guns, they do. Yeah, and it's something where I sort of challengethem to ask yourself, you know, what is the worst case scenario here? And I think for most people your appetite for risk should be the highestyour one out of college and probably go down from there. Right you knowyou're not going to have you don't have kids, you don't have a mortgage. Probably you might have some student loans. That's obvious. Something to consider.But there is a little bit of that. You know, hey,if you're gonna throw the deep ball, is the time to do it right. Absolutely so. All right, so let's start with just for context forthe audience, just an overview of kind of brief overview of what Sin Dosodoes so that we've got some context for our conversation. Yeah, absolutely so. SINDOSO's a setting platform. So we basically facilitate the process of sending justabout anything to your prospects, customers, employees. So that could be,you know, five dollar starbucks Gift Card, a branded Patagonia, or we've beenintegrate with Amazon, so you can speak a mile MoD someone. Couldgo on. There be our integration sending the Boston college mud. And actually, just yesterday we announced that we've released a cameo integration, so you couldsend someone a video or snoop dog pitching...

...on your product or whatever that mightbe. I'm really excited about that one. Has Anybody done that yet? Can? I'm that can't, because the cameo thing, I thinks, relativelynew in terms of scaling it. But have you obviously tested it, Iwould assume. So dive into that a little bit, because that is.That's extremely interesting. Yeah, so, you know, we actually borrow thisidea from the people over it gong super creative CR and sales organization, andthey realize, and kind of getting creative and getting tactical, that there wasthis really cool platform called Cameo where you could you hire anyone from like RobertHerjevac to snoop dog to the guy who does the dress comas from Silicon Valley, if you've seen that show, and they'll basically say whatever you whenever youkind of put in the comments and it ends up being, you know,really funny and definitely stands out and as numberable. And so they were goingon a cameo and spending all this money and setting people stuff, but youknow, you're having to go over the platform, you're having a copy pastelinks see if they opened it. It's disjoint it, it's its own.You got to expense it after the fact and there's no tracking on it.And that's really why people use and Doso for anything. Right and and that'swhat I love to tell people is, you know, hey, if you'renot sure the stuff works, you know, don't don't take it from me,don't buy Sendoh, so you hat go test this on your own andyou're going to figure out two things. One, that it works and tothat it's a pain in the butt if you don't have a platform to facilitateit. So we got a lot of places you have to go exactly.So yeah, to answer your question, you know, we almost everything webuild is is an idea. We borrow from our customer stuff they've seen workand we integrate into the platform and try to streamline form. And so obviouslyyour team, you know you're sales team, is using, I would assume,the platform and using this in their prospecting efforts. personalization at scale isa huge challenge for a lot of organizations and so I'm curious to dive alittle bit into how your team's leveraging that. Only your own tools, or maybeyou're guiding them to optimize their prospecting motion and can deal with that personalizationat scale challenge. Yeah, really glad you brought this point up. It'sfunny. I actually talked to Jeremy Donovan over it sales latch about this acouple weeks ago and we were sort of bloiling it down to is the personalizationat scale has become, I think, really tired in a lot of ways, and I'm sure you've received a lot of correspondence that is sort of inlignementthat personalization at scale model where it's, you know, a first name,notice blank, whatever it might be, where they're sort of just those datainputs, and there's so many platforms you can use now to sort of pseudopersonalized a scale. What I really break it down to now, and whatwe challenge our my team and our customers to do is to think about authenticityand doing that at a reasonable scale. Right, you don't, you don'twant to sacrifice the quality there for the quantity, of course, but howdo you go beyond personalization to try to actually make an authentic connection? That'sa big sum. Just I'm processing that for second. So that's a bigso the question becomes, how do you do that and still maintain the levelof activity not necessary to fill the pipeline or achieved whatever objectives the organization isset? Yeah, well, and and I'll tell you, I think ifyou think about this way, if you're firing off ten emails to a friend, you can get that done incredibly quickly because you're not as worried maybe aboutthings like word choice or where you capitalize or even small things like grammar.I'm I think it can train in here. I think the more that you areyourself and communicate from that place of authenticity, the more that the recipientis going to see you as being authentic and being sort of a real humanbeing, in a real person with with you know, your own personality,you own flavor, and the message is...

...just going to come across more authenticand it's going to naturally feel more personalized, because marketing. Let Marketing do theirthing. Right, marketing, those their emails. You're you're not.You're not a MARQUETTO email blast right. So you know why? Why befocused on hyper scale, you know, hyper polished, personalized. That's andI think people also talk a lot about this and this is its own rabbitholding get down to. But with obviously AI and all the technology that's goingto that's already innovatd a ton and will continue to. Where does the humanfit within all this? Right, because there is, there's probably a toolthat's less than twelve months away where you could plug it into your sales forceand it can send a personalize email that everyone multi step whatever. So wheredoes the human come into play here and what can we do that machines canand I think that's the authenticity piece and that's where I'm excited about. Yeah, and it makes sense, I mean because the automation is not hard topick up. I mean, even as the tech of balls, it's stillI haven't seen anything that I haven't been able to look at and go either. This was a templed out of out of something like sales after outreach thatjust dropped in some key, you know, phrases, my name or name ofthe coming or whatever. I haven't seen anything that has the ability toget to that anywhere near that authentic level. But being authentic in communication and outreachthere's a skill set to that that really more on the human side.So when you're looking for hiring or coaching sales individuals, what types of behaviorsand skills are you looking for? Ways are, you know, testing theirability to be authentic in their communications? Yeah, it's a really great point. I think self awareness is it the KI is at the heart of itall in terms of understanding. You know, if you tell someone, Hey,just be authentic with it today, have a you know what I mean, they know what that means. Yeah, does that land? And what istheir authentic personality? Right? And I don't necessarily care. I'm notlooking for a specific profile of authenticity and in fact it's incredibly important to meto have a diverse team where everyone has their own flavor of that. Butif you're someone who uses really, you know, colorful language is really expressivein a motive, go lead with that. If you're someone I mean we havean str one of our best gunning David Denver. Shout Out David.He's awesome and he is the most high energy guy that you'll ever meet andhe's gifts and caps letters and that's who he is and slack, that's heis an internal emails and we love seeing him be like that with prospects ofcustomers, because you get those emails and it just jumps out of your inboxbecause it doesn't look like the nine other templated things you have. It's somuch emotion authenticity that you just can't help but feel that right. It comesthrough, it translates. Yeah, and have you seen so that kind ofauthenticity combined with using Sindoso? Can you paint kind of a picture of howyour teams are kind of combining that for a campaign based or cadence based orsequence bace, whatever we're doing. He is I'll reach approach. Yeah,absolutely, so, I think again, you know I'm going to be adead horse here, but it goes back to being authentic and leveraging sendo soas just their channel, and I think the authenticity should carry through all channelsyou use, and the obvious ones for people our phone and email, right. So that's what we just talked about. With email. I think the phonepiece is pretty straightforward. Don't be a robot when you call someone andthen we send those. All we're doing is is enabling a new channel forpeople. So, Hey, look, you can send an email, youcan make a phone call, you can also send stuff too, and that'swhat we open up the doors to. Is, you know, you cansend someone branded golf tees from their Alma Mater if you find out their golfer. You can send them, you know,...

...a lunch gift card if you knowthey're going to have a busy day and they're back to back or ifthey're doing you a favor and taking the meeting you have during what you knowtheir lunch our right. So it's really just this sort of Pandora's box ofoptions for making that human connection and especially now, you know, I can'temphasize it's enough with I know I am feeling the burnout and the effect ofnot being able to get on a plane and go meet with my my prospectsand customers and every I think everyone is sort of hurting as a result ofthat right. There's no conferences, is no trade shows, there's no handshakewith the prospect, no matter how big the deal is. And so howdo you try to replace that just a little bit? And have you seenbig changes? I mean, obviously you know the pen them changed everything fora lot of people. Changes in kind of people's response when they receive something, or you could be a potentially increased challenge of finding out where to sendthem stuff, because a lot of people learn it their offices are at home. Have you run into any of that and, if so, have youdealt with it? Yeah, so I'll give you sort of two answers.The first is from a little bit more of just the logistics of actually sendingitems. So we, through our platform, let you prompt an email to someoneor a little link you can put in your own email and that'll justsay, Hey, I'm sending you over something, let me know what addressto send it to. And you know, we're sought to compliant. We thatdata is never stored. In fact, our clients cannot see the address thattheir prospects put an even if they wanted to. It's all completely secure, but that gives that that sort of power of choice and flexibility, sosomeone can sort of both opt into receiving the item and put in the preferredaddress. That's obviously, you know, invaluable right now. And then theother piece of it is, I think, leading with empathy. It's something thatwe've seen be incredibly powerful the past couple months, and so that's arising things like charity donations. It's a rise in recognizing people's reality. Andagain, all this is sort of I think, once you have the theright to leverage this information. But say you're on a Zom call with someoneand they've got, you know, kids jumping up in the background or there'sa dog barking. Starting to recognize their reality and appreciating that people are invitingyou into their homes now, and I think that's a responsibility as a sellerto recognize that, to appreciate it and to be real about the fact thatthings are different and you're selling to, you know, a person that's dealingwith unique challenges and any unique reality right now, and so how can youtry to make that connection by recognizing those things? Yeah, it's a itis a highly emotionally charged environment right now and you have to really careful aboutunderstanding that everybody's experiencing it differently. Some, maybe, some you know, likemyself, have had probably losses from the pandemic. Others have maybe haven'tbeen directly touched other than the lockdown, but are still in an environment wherethey're isolated. It creates a drastic increase for the need for empathy. Haveyou found a way? I have not successfully found a way to teach it, to teach empathy, to help someone slow down enough to understand you aredealing with the human being. I'm curious, when you're hiring or you're coaching yourteam's how you might reinforce that with them, because they themselves are alsogoing through this. And so how do you how do you kind of bridgethat gap and kind of level level set the field? I think it's allabout the tone that you set and that the entire leadership team in sets,and I think it's coming from a place of a trust that the people thatyou hired to do a job are doing the job, but also not beingtone deaf in those moments. Right,...

...and a few of the I'll giveyou an example. You know, we to buy or a couple weeks agothey miss a meeting and so you know the reds, sort of trying toexplain, trying to figure out what happened. As a manager, you could say, look, we had this on the meat on the calendar. It'sa key deal, you know, as a key deal for your quarter.You know, did you set the agenda? Did you do all the things youneed to do? And you can sort of come down them or youcan take a step back and say, let's assume that you did do allall the things right, there could be something else going on and you setthat tone of let's just sort of seek to understand here, and we cometo find out the person ended up having child care for the evening fall through. Right. And so I think that as long as your employees, andSimon sneck talks a ton about this and I think he's a brilliant billing.Author and thought leader here is Ted talks. Are Great, as books are greatleaders. He lasts their favorite of mine. When your employees feel safe, they will do their best work. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And sohave have you had challenges? Like how is just that of curiosity? Howhas sent Doso found business changing for them in the middle of this, whereas we go through this kind of new situation and the pandemic and stuff,what changes have you had to make across the organization, aside from you mentionednot traveling, but I'm curious what other ways of you proactively tackle it toensure that the employees feel safe and continue the hopefully the growth trajectory. Again, it's a really good point and I would say honestly that it's something thatwe're still figuring out. It is it works. The work in progress.Yeah, it's a complete work in progress and I think it it requires startingat a at a point of we don't know how to do this, andthat that sort of again self awareness and the recognition that there's not a playbookfor this and we're going to figure out as we go and being up frontwith the employees on that. To write, because one of the most frustrating thingsis when leadership, I think, pretends that everything is figured out andthere is a playbook, ether is a system, and I think that canreally deteriorate trust. We're another hand, sort of just opening your arms andsaying to the team or to employees, we're going to all figure this outtogether and we don't know and we need to hear from you what you needand we'll do our best to support that. But this is going to be aconversation, it's not going to be a series of orders. Absolutely ithas to be collaborative. I think I've seen, I mean as much aswe're all, you know, dealing with the zoom fatigue. Yeah, theorganizations that enable that collaboration, that rely on and listen to their employees,I think have a tendency to whether much better than those that kind of havethat fear based reaction where they clamped down, at least from at least from whatI've seen so far. So glad to hear that that's kind of theapproach that's and DOSOS taken. So any stats that you might have or insightinto kind of how effective things were pre covid versus how your teams are doingtoday in terms of leveraging those multiple channels. Always like to see if there's,you know, things that you're seeing, your trends that you're seeing as thingsare changing and involving absolutely and it's been interesting to just see this shiftin how our customers think about metrics and the things that are important to them. And so, you know, of course, it's something where our precovid we're talking about increasing response rate. It's right and we'll tell you know, talk to clients and they'll say, hey, we're getting, you know, four times better responsors than we're getting before, or our emails are gettingtwo percent engagement rate. We're sine one Thousan, fifteen to twenty with sindowsright, and we're still seeing metrics sort of in line with that. Reallystrong in terms of the engagement piece. If you send someone an offer tosend them something, they'll confirm their address their sixty five percent of the time, which is phenomenal and really gives opportunity... make sure you're being conscious aboutspend right now because, of course, precovid, if you're sending something toan office, there's always a chance it gets lost, right, and nowwe're saying, let's get the address from the recipient. So you're making sortof a double opt in going on there, where they're saying sure, I'll receivesomething. That's engagement in itself, and then when they receive something,is that second tier of engagement. The part that I think sort of onelayer deeper is that's really interesting right now with the people we talked to,is back to trade shows being canceled. That was a really core piece ofthe way that most marketing teams were getting their leads pipeline. There, youknow, metrics for the year and that's how they were hitting goals. Andso we talked these markers all day and I think together we're sort of figuringout that you can't just go spend more on Marquetto and get more out ofit right. There's there's sort of an absolute limit to the amount that youcan spend until and I give the analogy of you think about digital channels rightlike let's just use email or ads, for example, and obviously we're allinundated with all of these things, but it's a congested highway that suddenly hasmore cars trying to get onto it all of a sudden because it's the onlyoption. Yeah, I saw a stat somewhere just regular email, like openrates pre covid globally were around thirty to thirty six percent globally, and thenwhen covid hit, I saw stats that it had dropped until like six percent. Because, I mean, just think about I haven't run the analysis onmy owning box, but I can tell you that email exploded once you stoppedall getting on planes and stuff. Think about that. The inundation of sortingyou have to do this going through stuff, what it takes to get somebody's attention. I like the double opt in. That also gets you around privacy concerns, I would assume, considering we've got, what is it, theCalifornia Consumer Privacy Protection I, which is a lovely piece of legislation that hasbig risks for organizations. So to set that up and be able to providethat to organizations, I think is a definite win, especially when we're inan ever evolving business environment. So well done. Want to change direction herea little bit. We ask all of our guests kind of two standard questionsat the end of each interview. The first is simply, as a salesleader, that probably makes you a prospect for other people. So there's probablypeople trying to get in front of you and get your attention. Always curiousto understand what works best. If somebody doesn't have a referral, like theydon't know somebody that you know and send somebody you trust. What works bestfor you for them to capture your attention and earn time, to earn therights time on your calendar. This is a softball, come on. Well, I know, I know, I hope, I hope you are consistentin your answers, because I have I have a bat. But yeah,I want to hear. I'm one hand again for the guests, of course. So, Hey, I'm always I'm obviously going to say, you know, try to send me something, get my attention and if that's not somethingthat you have the resources to do, again, be authentic, right,be yourself, and the difference is is so obvious on the receiving end whenyou're getting a tempered email someone else wrote, versus someone really trying to be themselfin there and their messaging and they think. For me, that makesall the difference. Absolutely agree, one hundred percent. All right. Sonow let'm going to alter our last question. A little bit because I know whatI would say if I were you. So I'm going to change it upjust a little bit. We call it our acceleration insight. If therewas one thing you could tell sales, marketing or professional services people, asidefrom being authentic, one thing you could tell them, thus I've being authentic, that you believe, with they listened to it, would change the courseof them hitting their targets. What would it be, and why? Somy number one piece of advice would be, I'll go I'll go a little bitof a different direction here on this. Authenticity is is the drama. I'vebeen beating this the whole podcast here.

But I'll say seek to understand rightthat on a sticky note and put it on your desk and every timesomeone gives you an answer or you feel yourself maybe going through the motions ona call, really challenge yourself to seek to understand where that answers coming from, what someone's dealing with, the position the organization might be in so manythings right start to try to really fill in that portrait of what is thisperson dealing with? What are the peripherals? What are they really how can Ihelp hear what are they trying to get out of this and really challengeyourself not to get your discovery questions answered or to meet your objectives, butto really understand. Absolutely love it. All right, Nick. If alisteners interested in more information on Sen Doso or connecting with you, where doyou prefer we send them? You have a preferred outlet for us? SendOsacom. You can hit us up on Linkedin. I am Nick A.Sendosacom if you want to flood by handbox. We we're pretty easy get in touchwith. All right, nick, I can't thank you enough for takingtime. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show chat.I really appreciate thanks for taking the time. All right, everybody that does ofthis episode, you know the drill be to be REV exactcom share withfriends, family, Co workers. Let your kids listening to it. It'sbetter for him than screen time. Until next time we will talk. Wewish you nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenueexecutive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to theshow and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening.Until next time,.

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