The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 1 year ago

Differentiation Is More Than Your People, Culture & Values w/ Chala Dincoy


What makes your company special?


Is it your people? Experience? Customer service?


Probably not. Everyone says that about their company. And if you’re saying the same thing as everyone else, you may as well not be saying anything.


That’s why I caught up with Chala Dincoy, CEO & Founder at The Repositioning Expert, to learn more effective ways to stand out from the crowd.  


Chala covered:


- Why most companies are poorly differentiated


- The formula for successful differentiation


- The top 5 mistakes companies make in their messaging


Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:







Seventy percent of humans by based on pain, but they buy based on their pain rack. So if your messaging or your differentiator is based on you and not them or their pain, then you've lost. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're talking about differentiation. Why buyers can't tell the difference between vendors, how to create elevate elevator pitches that wow buyers, how to thrive in this age of self isolation. To help us, we have with a charlad and coil, CEO and founder of the repositioning expert, a division of coach tactic. She's an award winning marketer that's worked the companies including Pepsi, Diagio, freed lay and others. She's also the author of two books and a regularly featured expert on ABC NBC, CBS and Fox. Child, thank you for taking the time and welcome to the show. Well, I want to just congratulate you on knowing how to pronounce both my name and Diagi. Oh, you have no idea how many people get tripped up when they're introducing me on that one. It's crazy. But well, it always pays, you know, to make sure we're checking that before we hit recorded. All right, so before we jump in, we like to ask this kind of a random question, and I'm curious, especially now, since everybody's in this age of the Self, isolation is there, you know, with all the extra time at home and not having jump on planes as much, is there one thing you've been able to spend more time on that you weren't spending on time before? A passion, a hobby? What you know? What is that? How did it come about? Well, I mean, I gotta Tell You, I do a lot of podcast but that was a good one. That's a good, good opener and I really like that question. So I used to I am a like a fitness fanatic. You know how you're a Harley fanatic. Yeah, I'm a fitness fanatic and I've been trying to find the sixpack that I lost before covid so you know, I don't know if you've ever. Have you ever had a sixpack? I have not had a sixpack. However, I am a fitness free to check. The challenge with a sixpack is it's diet. A lot of its diet, and for me it's six to two hundred and forty eight pounds. It's really hard for me to manage all the macros as much. Yeah, well, to get to get the definition. Yes, Oh, I'm macro crazy. So now and the problem is, of course, the gyms are closed. So I used to be a like a SNOB, like a fitness snob. I would never I'd rather not work out if I didn't have my gym. So now I discovered youtube fitness and now like the convenience of it. I really don't like you know, we're talking about how we're not going to go back to some of the things we used to do before. I really I'm I'm really into it, into the fitness on Youtube. I'm so I'm sad to say, sorry to say, but yeah, yeah, and it's funny. I used to be the same way. So, even when I would travel, I had to make sure I was within, you know, one mile walking distance of a gym, because I work out five days a week. And then when, when this hit, I had we I just moved into a new house like a month earlier and all I had in the basement were resistance bands. So for the first month I was religiously working out twice a day with resistance bands because the free well, if I don't have the weights and the and the cardio stuff, this should help. And then I got tired of the resistance bands and just sat down and do the math. was like, you know, what, to hell with this. So I put a full gym in the basements and now I never have to nice. Yeah, and I love it. I love the the convenience of it. I get us it. Yeah, yeah, instead of get up at for thirty to go to the gym, I can get up at five thirty, just go outstairs. I still get my hour and a half in. It's amazing, I know. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. All right. So let's start with topic of the day. Differentiation. Now, this is a tough topic for many companies, even before what's going on right... But you know, when the statue mentioned in as we were prepping for this was the eighty six percent of buyers can't tell the difference between vendors. That's a huge number. So why is that and how do you help people overcome it? And when you end? And by the way, you know what the reverse of that statistic is? How many businesses think they're differentiated? Pretty much a hundred percent. That's the sad part. Yeah, the first part is sound. It's second part to sadder. So most businesses don't even know themselves what makes them different. Like when I talk to CEO groups, and I do a presurvey before I do to talk to them of a differentiation, and I ask them, what is your differentiator? And do you know what? The number one thing they say is no idea. Oh my God, they say experience. It's not people. I hear that a lot too. Oh well, oh, thank you. Yeah, that's probably a third one. So the first thing they say is experience and the second thing they say is customer service, and then the third thing they say is their people, which is kind of like their customer service, and that their experienced. So and they have no clue what buyers really find different because when I bought services at Pepsi Fried to La Pizza Hut for like twenty years. I always said no to these people because they were not different. And you know, just because you've been doing it for a long time, just because you say you have good customer service, just because you say you have good people, everybody is saying the same thing and in marketing, when you say the same thing as everybody else, it's equal to not being heard. Right. So how do you help the problem? How do you have them come to that really frim because in order for them to change in address that, they have to understand that that what they're talking about isn't that different, and even that realization can be a paint in the butt to get them over the hump. Ar. Oh Yeah, they a lot of the time they're they're in denial, right, they're totally in denial until, you know, they see my presentation where you know of all the stories of where people were, what they were experiencing, and typically what they're experiencing is one difficulty getting in to a eating with a buyer. Well, first getting the attention of the buyer, to getting into the meeting with a buyer and then three, closing, you know, in the meeting. So those are the the symptoms with which they come to me and probably what they come to you with as well. Oh yeah, absolutely, and then we do. We do, and I would love to know how you help them get to this realization, because we have a differentiation exercise. We do it and every exercise exactly. It's exactly the same. I ask them. All right, so what is it the differentiate you and everybody? Inevitably, like I see people culture values. I'm like, okay, do you think any other company out there might have people in it as well? Like, so, here's the one statistic that changes their mind. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Let's do ha ha. Seventy percent of humans by based on pain, but they buy based on their pain. Right. So if your messaging or your differentiator is based on you and not them or their pain, then you've lost. Yeah, you can be that to them. There's no connection. So that's the part, that's the the A ha for them is when they frame their differentiator in terms of themselves, their service, their experience and their people, their systems, whatever. It has nothing to do with the client and the clients pain. But what I teach companies is how to strategically figure out and own a niche around one facet of one expensive problem. Now Nice. Okay, so let's put it in context and so let's talk about, you know, with everything's going on right now. Let's you know, for the first part is the mindset, like do they understand, do they have the right framing for for their perspective or what they think of the differentiers? But what are some of the biggest mistakes you're seeing that are paralyzing, you know, small businesses, especially in the current situation with with covid? So the first thing that I'm seeing is just frozen in fear right the paralysis, and I always tell the rollerblading stories. You know. I used to live on in Toronto what's...

...called the beach and there would be a huge long path where you rollerblade and I wasn't very good at stopping. So people would in advertently be on my path instead of the actual walkway and they'd be in my path and I wouldn't be I'd be coming down barreling strong and, you know, I'd be like get out of the way, get out of the way, and they be literally it's it was like almost comical that they would be frozen. They could not react when they saw some one barreling down towards them on, you know, high speed, and I think, and you know, we would collide and it wouldn't be pretty and I've been yelled at a couple of times. But so that's what's happening to a lot of businesses. And here's the other thing that I'm seeing is you've heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right, so one of the the coaches that I was listening to, I love this whole hierarchy of knees of what businesses are going to go through that she constructed and I've been using this in my teaching. So the first thing right now, as soon as you know, we were talking about March, was that crisis management. What are we going to do in the next fourteen days to, you know, manage what's happening? And then the second step is the survival of how we going to pay our bills, and then the third step is the recovery of how we going to get back to what you were saying last year's numbers, yeah, or, you know, our goals, and then it's going to be we're going to figure out the growth and then we're going to figure out the vision. But I've had so many clients try to continue to sell to the growth and envision and they're not even addressing, you know, the first three steps, depending on the industry and depending on the where the company is themselves. Like you yourself, you're already at the fourth level, which is the growth, right, because you've pivoted so quickly. But there are other companies that are still in crisis management or stuck a survival, you know, like they're. So you need to speak to their level. You need to gage what the need is and what the pain is. It all comes back to them. And then you have to pivot what you're doing today. And if it's a leadership coaching, it's not about growth and vision right, it's about survival and recovery, and so you need to reposition that. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so all right, so let's say we get through, you know, eventually we will get through it. And night, and I don't mean to date myself, but I tell a lot of our clients, look, I remember, you know, I remember eleven and I remember two thousand and eight, and it was area and people, you know, people were impacted in positive and negative ways right around the globe, and so we'll get through this as well. So when they come out of this, when we get back to her, at least everybody, I hate the phrase, the new normal, but everybody gets to this. The new, you know, the new moving forward. Everybody's at least on the same page and we're not freaking out as much. What do you expect the largest challenges to be for small businesses? Well, you know, it was a challenge before and it's going to be a challenge after. But you know, I googled free education, coronavirus, that phrase and I got like over four million hits. So the biggest challenge is going to be standing out amongst the millions of free and cheap offers in a reduced spend pool. Right, absolutely so. Differentiation becomes even more critical as as people move through this process. And so when we think about that, what's the you know, if I'm a small business and I'm trying to stand out, I mean, looking at it from you know, what is the pain that that the prospects of clients have? Is One way to go about it. o there other ways that that the audience could approach this as well, or other things that they should keep in mind. Well, I mean, let me give you a few examples of how to do this right and maybe that'll help. So, in order to stand out, you have to be relevant, right, and in order to be relevant, you have to consider niching down to a specific target and then you have to consider what is their most costly pain today. And so, for example, and Paul, we had a leadership coach and we you know, and leadership coaches, like...

...when I used to speak at the international coach Federation conferences and there would be like hundreds and hundreds of people and I'd ask them to stand up if they were a leadership coach. And guess how many would stand everybody. Yeah, I'll thos. Like half the audience was stand up right. And so they are. And and that's the way they call themselves us, the way they market themselves and sell themselves. So nobody really could differentiate. And the ICEF published median income annually. Can you guess how much it is? No idea. Twenty grand what for leadership coaches, for all coaches, all international ICEEF certified global media. Now, median is not average, right. Median is the middle of to yeah, to extremes, but still it's very low. So that's why, that's what I'm telling you, is that's what lack of differentiation causes low income. And what we did with this leadership coach that I met was to see Super Niche her into what we called a decisionmaking coach because, if have you ever worked in a manufacturing plant or any with a manufacturing company? Yes, absolutely so. Apparently it turned out upon our research that the number one leadership, and you probably know this leadership problem, was nobody can make decisions. Right now, when you can't make a decision, what happens on a manufacturing line, it's screeches through it all. You start losing more right exactly, so your product any falls. So that's one example of how we niche to her in a decision making coach, and then we did the research. It was like something like one point four billion dollars being lost every year by the industry as a whole due to one decision, one wrong decision. So you know, she had programs to teach how to make decisions and PAT to empower people to make decisions and so on. So that's one example and another one is a language school, and this was a language school, not like the big giant berlitzs of the world, but she was just like a tiny little language school. So we had to and she had just lost a huge contract and she was really, really struggling, so we needed to replace that income right away. So we did as we did the research and we found out that the number one target for her should have been mining companies. And there's a whole bunch of stuff and we can talk about if you want, what the research looks like. But so it turned out that the mining companies and that the number one problem that this language school was going to solve for them was cultural language. And the reason for that is a North American manager could say the wrong contextual cultural thing in the wrong way in an email or a voicemel or even a zoom call, and all of a sudden production slows down in South America and they don't know why and it's because he pissed off people right where he said something culturally wrong. So that's what we super niche them into, is not just to teaching them the language, but teaching them cultural ques and cultural language. So does that make sense? Yeah, no, it's great. It's great. I love it. And so when you when people are out there and they're trying to they're trying to differentiate, they're trying to get supernaean and find those expensive pain problems to solve. What are like the top five mistakes you see people making in their message? Oh my goodness, I see so many more, but the bigger ones, the biggest ones. Is One there's no focus target, and I'm pretty pretty, pretty insistent on my clients figuring out a target based only on two things, because there's only two ways that human being self gathering large numbers, and one is it has to be an industry or it has to be an interest group. So an industry, obviously it could be like an IT, healthcare, pharmaceutical, whatever the industry is, you know that they are self gathering in large numbers, both online and offline. They're having, you know, events, they have monthly meetings and now they've poorted them to zoom meetings. They have publications, they have linkedin groups, so they're doing the heavy...

...lifting of, you know, being a focused target that you can find at least a seventy percent concentration of that person. The second kind of target is it's an interest group. So this is it could be a BEC so for example, Yoga. You know where to find those women or from a be to be like. My actual focus target was diversity based procurement conferences, which is where I learned how to do backto back to back elevator pitch fixes, because they are constantly pitching to corporations. So that's the number one is the focused target. Is figure out your focus target. That's one mistake they're making. The second is they have no specialty. So that whole, you know, diamond if you look at the problem that you solve, take one facet of the diamonds and then that becomes your specialty and you don't just cherry pick that out of a hat or throw spaghetti at the wall. There's a whole, you know, scientific strategic way that I'd teach you how to do that that I learned when I was launching products at Pepsi Pizza Free Delay. The third mistake they make is they don't have a pain based message. Their message is around something either pleasure based, to value base, to whatever it is, but it's not directly talking about the pain or, worse yet, it's not it's talking about a symptom, it's not talking about the actual cause or, you know, the ultimate caused cost of the pain. Another one is I'm going fairly fast, so you can stop me anytime. Oh, it's all good, it's all good. Okay, good, all right. So the lat the fourth one is, Oh, I used to hate this one. I used to buy services, selfish selling, or you're gonna like this one, being good at it, not the selfish part but the selling part. Yeah, so it's about you know, it's like having washed for eighteen years. Companies come in to try to sell to me and talk to use the hour that I gave them out of my busy time and talk about nothing but themselves and like nothing. Like I once almost gave birth at a vendor presentation that was three hours long and I was like nine months pregnant, no kidding, and they didn't once mention my brand's name. I was I was like and they had their end. It was the largest corget company in Canada and then it was the their entire like executive team was there because, you know, I managed some pretty big brands and they were selling something pretty cool, but they didn't once mention my brand. I never forget that and it's in a lot of my presentations. So then the last piece of the the mistakes that I usually talk about is there's no visibility around the niche. So not only do they not have the targeted niche, but they're not using it in their marketing to talk about how they solve a problem around that niche or how they are the go to people in that niche or what solutions they've provided to others in the same pain in that niche. Nice. Okay, yeah, excellent. That's I mean that's a nice list of things to be aware of and things that I've seen repeatedly. I bet, if the self for selling, when I think part of that, part of that is I think that's the way organizations train. There sales people like you come in and you on board and it's all. I hate drink the Kolaid were so cool. Look, I was cool stuff. We do us, US, sauce us, and then you can't figure out why they can't connect to another human being when you unleash them into the market. Unleash I like that. I mean they just want to walk on and talk about us. They wanted and it's funny because it shows up even an email. I got an email. So I this is partially how I prospect so when I get a crappy email, prospecting email that's literally starts with we, we, we, we, yeah, and doesn't doesn't have it, doesn't have shows absolutely no awareness of what I do or we're who I work with, I literally take that email a forward it to the CEO of the company and I just simply say, if you want help fix in this, I just let me know, because this is love. See, pain based, right, yeah, we works. Yeah, and the pain right there is costing new money because I know now...

I've I've attached an impression to that brand that, regardless of even if maybe my account, my prospect can gets past to somebody else and they come at me in the right way, I've already then established an emotional reaction to that brand because of the impression their initial outreach is made on me. Yeah, I did a whole training that's called sales emails that stink and fix it. Yeah, because it's like, yeah, there's so many of them and there's so many different ways they stink, I don't even yeah, we kept we keep a we keep a database of like crappy examples. So, oh, yeah, so that we can do some and I'm one of the top ones and we're awful. We're awful here, but I'm going to just keep going with this. One of the worst ones I've seen was the individual didn't come to me. It came to one of my co workers, one of my partners, and it came to them and it said something. It reference something about them having gone to produce. So it's like boiler maker Fan or something, something a little, I felt a little kitchy in the subject line. But Anyway, I got him to open it and then when he started to read it he realized that it was like a complete bait and switch, because I think the second line so well. I'm not a produce fan. I like Nebraska and and it was just like it. When I asked him, I seen right. How does that make you feel? And he's like I feel like it's got lied. No'm like that is well, that is a crappy ass email if that is. Yeah, my God. Yeah, it was very interesting, very rat yeah, let's talk elevator pitches. Uh Huh. How do you help companies take all of this, keep all of this in mind right. It needs to be pain based, needs to be expensive pain based. Ideally, it needs to be differentiated. How? How do you suggest companies, individuals, view and crazies? Actually, first question is how long should they be? I've heard a lot of different Oh God, you know, I love this quote. I read it somewhere else and I did a post and it went viral. The shorter the way you describe yourself, the more money you make. I like it. I like isn't it great? Yeah, yeah, we'll typically say this. The shorter the question, the more information you get. Yeah, yeah, because it's because if you if you talked too much, you put blinders on. Yeah, I mean you're the classic example. Like I was pitched to you by my agents and apparently they're having a huge success, and I don't know if this was true for you, but it's because they're just saying she's an elevator pitch coach period. Yeah, well, it's what was interesting, I'll tell you, because I get a lot, I mean, I get a lot of powsome who want to be on, which is great, but it's also come of pay in the butt because, much like prospecting emails are horrible, sometimes a lot of these pitches are are bad as well. And so what really struck me about yours was it was very focused but the but the elevator pitch was supported by differentiation. Those two things really speak to me. I know will speak to the audience. And then, of course, I'll be honest, a lot of times when I look at some pitch that comes in from a company that wants somewhere on the podcast, I might read the first two lines maybe, and then I'm making up my mind. But I did actually read the entire and it wasn't overly long. But I did read the entire email and look at the one pager that was sent. It was very well done. Did you write that for your for the cocourse? I hate to say they copy pasted, but that's my job, right. Yeah, no, that's perfect. That's perfect. So how do right, so the shorter the better. So how do you help companies? Can you give us an example of what a good like compared to trast and then I'll let you. Then I'll let you lose some on mine. Don't be nervous, that's it won't hurt. All right. So here's the formula. So you may want to write this down. It's who you help, plus the pain, the expensive pain that you were talking about, that you solve and how you help so, for example, mine when I'm in now I'm in zoom meeting. So this is an interesting departure from wake, where I used to go and network with thousand of people like, I guess, like the same way that you used to. And when you're in a zoom call, I find a people...

...while they're stuck on the screen. I think they can space out way easier than if, like they're standing in front of you looking at your you know, Baby Blues Right there. So I mean zoomis are so boring. But I don't know if you heard about this, but they actually have a goat, a Llama, like there's a company that conserted into your meeting. Yeah, that you can. Yeah, you can rent one. It's called sweet farms. I think it's in California. It's like a animal sanctuary, a pet sanctuary, and you can rent anywhere. It's up to anywhere until seven hundred fifty bucks, like anywhere from thirty five to seven hundred and fifty that you can get a lamma to attend your meeting. So I just thought I was just so funny. And it's they call it goat to meeting. YEA like anyway. So let me get back to them the elevator pitches. So here's an example. So what this is, how not what my elevator pitches. Did you know that three out of four business owners never get asked for a card or a meeting after they introduce themselves to a prospect? Well, what I do is I fix what you're saying so that every hello turns into a prospect, like. So, I don't know, was that thirty seconds? I don't even think it was that. I think that was that was nice, very nice. So I'll give you another and I'll give you a few other ones, all right, so that it'll get you more comfortable. Okay. So did you know that sixty five percent of general contractors are losing millions of dollars of government contracts because they can't find diverse, unionize painters? Well, that's what we do. We have an army of them. So that's another client that we did, and it's really true, like they're really if you know anything about GC's, like they're tearing their hair out. Okay, so the next one is we're an AD agency who does strategy and design. Like, how many times have you seen them? Honestly, a yeah, and then we switched to to. We help get leads online for food service manufacturers ten times faster than your sales staff. Wow, that was a good one. Yeah, I mean it's all about the pain. Like you can see, it's all about the WHO the pain. We throw in a stat to give size and importance and scope to the pain, if we can, and then we go from there. Here's another one, where's a we're a translation company who works with governments and agencies and all industries. This is literally what this woman was saying, and we changed it to do you know when marketing agencies need fast translation of other languages like Punjabi or Cantonese? Well, we translated in a week rather than a month like the industry standard. Wow, they became the the their one liner became the fastest translators of other languages. Nice. So they went crazy with that one. Here's another one. We're pre employment screening company and we do background in criminal checks. Went to and she was competing with so many others. Right there, there's a lot of thing differentiated. So then this became did you know that two out of three candidates are lost due to the long lead time it takes to check the background wall? Thanks to our quick track process. We're thirty percent faster and that's it. Nice, all right, all right, right, you're ready. We'll try. Will Try. So no no pressure. So here's normally like if somebody asked me what I do. Okay, so we help B Tob, Cros and CMOS address challenges related to the revenue funnel, including increasing number of reps, achieving quota. How they this overall deal size, and sometimes I'll throw an increase forecast accuracy, often driving clients up thirty to forty percent. You need to those categories. Okay. So I love that you have all the pain and I love that you have the WHO. Now the thing about what is it called acronyms right now? Be Tob is very fairly common, but the crows, I don't know. If you're talking to...

...your to your target, it's fine, right, and you should never really be doing your pitch to anybody other than your targets. So I'm gonna let that one go. But I think I can do I have your permission to Polle please? Okay, great, all right. So, so you named a couple of pain points. What I would love is for you too. So you re you named the quota, you named deal size. And you name something about the forecast for test an for cast accuracy. Okay, and so can you if you could, if you have the research. A few knew. What is the number one most costly of those three that you help solves? There's something along the lines of less than on average, less than forty percent of reps in a sales team achieve quota repel consistently. I love it. And we help address that problem. Okay, that's great. Right there, that you had me. You had me the right there, because that clarified it so much for me, because the other the other way, it was too many different too many problem, many things. Okay, yeah, many problems. But when you say to me forty percent of reps only, only for is it only forty percent of reps achieving? Actually less than forty percent, less than okay. So then sixty can we say sixty percent of reps never achieve their quota? I wouldn't use so. My therapist says no absolute so be careful with the word never. But okay, so sixty percent of reps really rarely hit quota, rarely hit quota. Okay, I love it. So to me that's a bigger number and scarier and it's pain based. Yeah, and so that's what we fix. I love it. And is there any unique way that you fix it? Like, is there anything unique? Yeah, soology. So I would say we provide. We provide, and I could shorten it up, but off the golf my head, we provide a communication framework to ensure your reps are uncovering what's valuable, important and painful for your prospects and clients. Okay, yeah, if you could shorten that, but I like it. So you could even like, brand it like something like the and brand it with the the name of the pain, so it would be or the let's brand it with the result, so it would be the pain finder communicator, or so, you know, whatever the the because the main thing you're uncovering or you are you clarifying. So what's the mean? Yes, I go. So I'd say the communication framework allows your reps to uncover what your prospects find valuable and allows them to connect what you can do to solve that to their vision of value. I can still Polish that up, but yeah, so it's something around what the prospects problem is. Right, could, because what the value is, what their problem is. So you could have some sort of because it's kind of like, you know how the staples easy buttons. You know that there's no such you know, like nobody comes to your house as soon as you press that right. So, but, but it's a brand. So that's what I would love for you to like brand that process and call it something that's relevant to uncovering. So the prospect pain drill or pot prospect pain finder or prospect of value finder. Yes, okay, thing around that, you know. So then your your pitch becomes did you know that only sixty percent or sixty percent of reps rarely hit quota? Well, through our value prospect finder or prospect value finder process, were able to increase that by half within a month or yeah, the value selling framework is what it's called. The value selling framework allows your reps to allows you to increase the number of reps hit in quota by thirty percent within ninety days. That's great. Okay, I like that. Thirty percent within ninety days. Okay, okay, so you tighten it up. See that. Like it. I like it, all right, awesome. All right. So tell us more about how you came to found the repositioning expert. Oh that's not a pretty story. I had a fight at work. I had a fight at work, like, I...

...mean, did you ever work in big corporate? I know you had your own Gig for a long time. Yeah, I so. I'VE WORKED IN IN STARTUPS, I've worked in large global organizations and the reason I came out and started doing my own thing was because I make a shitty employee because I don't I don't play politics and so so now I get to do I don't have to worry about politics. That's awesome. Yeah, well, so that's what happened. I mean, I was a corporate girl. Man My like my parents, were corporate. I was corporate and I had a fight at work with a woman who was on and off for medication, I think. And so it lasted two years. It was a, you know, badly managed situation and my boss was younger than me and he ignored the situation because he often didn't know, he didn't know what to do. So I pray to that woman every single day because now I make four times what I used to make. I work half the day because most of the time I'm in the gym. Yeah, and I write my own ticket, whatever I want to do. However, you know, I talked to people like you and there was so much dead wood in some of the corporations I worked at, and like this woman who I honestly I think HR is created to deal with mental health really in incorporations. But so, yeah, that's that's the story. Nice, okay, I love it. Hey, and it resonates with me. Like I said, I got into too many political situations. Actually, I didn't get into political situations. Political situations found me and I just didn't play and then the next thing I know I'm in a corner and somebody's going hey, and I'm like, yeah, I was, I'm sorry. I was focused on what I was supposed to do, which is providing value for the company. Give a crap about your ego? Yeah, yeah, well, I did. And Yeah, so I, like said, I'm much better off, much better off for him. It sounds like you are as well. So now let's talk about the books. Yeah, the boss tell us about the books and what inspired each of them. So I mean to be perfectly honest. The first one the general marketing, how to gently attract loads of new customers, the one that your listeners are going to get. If they don't, if they want to download it for free. Is All about the work, right. It's all about the nicheing, it's all about the specializing, it's all about the messaging and the marketing piece of it. The other two, the how to win friends, the way applewins customers, on how to make anyone like you in seven seconds or last came about because I decided I wanted to do TV v and I got onto like within a year and a half. I was on nineteen TV like you know, morning breakfast, when nobody watches but housewives and retired people and Matt leave ladies. So yeah, I mean I got on those of course. You know, it's all about visibility that we repurpose from there. It's not about the people who are watching at that time. But those books came about us as a part of the book tour. But they all hinge on the same you know, how to connect to people, how to communicate to people, and it's all about them, them, them, them, them. Right, absolutely, I love it. It's such a it's it seems so simple, but so many people struggle with that subtle shift in perception. Why? Why? Because they like themselves too much. I know people love talking about themselves. You would know, because you know, when people are on podcast they're like, you know, oh well, and and I have to in some cases. It's funny when I when they have a media like a podcast, and I really want them to talk about their extories, I want them to bring it, I still sometimes have to, like dig I saw that. I have to lead them a little bit, whereas if you get into a sales situation, all people want to do is talk about themselves. And so it's very it's very interesting to me because, like you know, I'll deal with you know, I deal with you know, crows or Cmos, and every time we have a conversation, the conversation always starts almost I don't again, no absolute, but almost always the same way. Our team is extremely unique. Oh it is okay, we'll come me tell me more about it. Well, you know, we don't have we don't have enough reps hitting, we don't have enough for upset in quota and our forecast actreacies driving our financial team nuts. They can't predict any for the business. I'm like,...

...really, have never heard that right, but it's like kills in your keep it straight face. Oh yeah, well, and sometimes, depending on my relationship with the individual sometimes I keep a straight face and sometimes I just go can I just call bs right now, because, like, that's not but that's but that's just my like there's there. I know myself well enough to know there are certain companies that I can do business with and I can help them, and there are certain companies that I'm not a good fit for it. I I that's why I tell you know, a lot of my clients, look, I'm not going to do a discovery call with you, and they're like, well, why not? I'm like, first we have to do an assessment call and we have to determine if it makes sense for a Stevn do business, because I love that. I don't. I don't want to waste anybody's time and I yea thank you to divorces and a lot of therapy. I am very selfaware. I heard you mentioned comedian. I laugh. Yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, it's part of my therapeutic healing process. All right, you talk about your therapist a lot. I do. She's amazing. I've had the same one for sixteen years now and my God, send her number. Yeah, she's absolutely made her on the show. I actually you know what, that is not a damn bad idea. I should have yeah on the show and give you a composition business this context. Yeah, give her permission to share whatever story she feels she needs to, because it's not going to affect me. All right, so let's change the direction here a little bit. We asked all of our guests to stay in. Her question is the end of each yeah, as a business owner, that makes you prospect for a lot of people out there. And when they don't have a they don't have a referral and they don't have a trusted you know. Hey, Charlie, you should talk to this person. They don't. You don't have somebody telling you that. What works for you for somebody to actually capture your attention and earn the right to some time on your calendar. Oh God, speak to my pain and how you've helped solve it for others. I mean, when I used to have these big agencies come in and they would do as a like, I was telling you all these presentations about how many offices they have and how many people work for them and how many projects they've done for people who have ten times my budget, like, I don't care. Right, stop talking about yourself and stop talking about clients that have nothing to do with me and my pain. Like I'm the I'm, you know, at the time. I have a tiny budget, I have a tiny brand. What are you going to do? You know, talk about the pain that this brand has, talk about talk about me. So that, I mean, that's yeah, show them, you know. Yep, and it's amazing. How many build don't they just come in? Yeah, when we could talk about that crab, we could do a whole another podcast on that one alone. Yeah, oh my gosh. But do you know the other thing I actually heard on your show? I'm really I'm leaving. I'm doing a lot of loom messages all over. I'm looming my, you know, behind off, and then voice messaging on Linkedin, like I don't do, just an end. People are saying, oh my gosh, that's the first time I've ever heard of it. Yeah, like I've it's the first time I've ever been reached out with a voice message. So it's working really well. You have to be really so what I find is, and this is about knowing oneself and what works right. So you have to put the time in to make sure that any any communication through any medium, I believe takes time to craft it and you don't want to just do it off the off the cuff unless you have like a repeatable formula, like you're like your elevator pitchform it right. But there are some people who do not come across well in voicemail, whether it be through Linkedin or now I and I am one of those people. I tried the linkedin messages really and and my and my my had somebody, had somebody right back and say, Hey, you got a great radio Voice, which you're creeping me out. Oh my, because it because it just isn't it isn't as authentic for me. But I have people I've worked with where they can nail it, they can knocked out of the park, and that's where I'm all about. The the data like a be test, the crap out everything anyway. That again we're off on another Pangel but it's but it's differentiated right. So, like I have this little you know clients. She's like a mouse. She never does any any marketing. And then she tried the linked and voice message and she freaked out because a no packaging engineer and in the automotive industry has ever even heard of a voice message. They're not even getting any messages, let alone voice messages, on Linkedin. So it's so differentiated. That right.

So you know anything in marketing that's different? It's good, good, I do. Everybody starts. Everybody starts until everybody, but right now not a lot of pop are doing loom or voicemail. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. All right. So last question. We call our acceleration insight. There's one thing you could tell sales mark getting your professional service people, one piece of advice you could give them that you believe would help them crush their targets. What would it be and why? WHO Super Niche strategically? So have you had other like? I didn't look through and find too many other marketing folks. Have you had a lot of marketing folks? On? We've had. I mean we've had a fair amount, I'd say, probably, if you go back through the three year catalog, maybe twenty, fifteen, twenty percent maybe. Okay, well, no, not the not the not the largest percentage by far right. Exactly. No. And so what I what I've seen in the market when I, you know, started my business is there's a lot of marketing gurus, but and and one. They don't even know how to niche and to and I don't want to, you know, throw dirt on people, and maybe there are some that are different, but they don't know how to how to reach a niche through asking the market. What they do is they realize that you do need a niche, but what they do is they tell you what it should be based on sitting behind their computer doing a couple of Google searches, doing a couple of Seo searches, and it's not it's it's wrong. It turns out to be wrong. And what the best thing to do is, and this is what I learned marketing the big brands as you have to ask the prospect right like the horses mouth like. Would you pay for this problem? Is this the biggest problem? Would you pay me for this problem? What would need to happen for you to pay me for this problem, right like and then, and then stack it up with two, three different problems that you first, you know, hypothesize and then leave it open ended for them to change, you know, change your mind about it and tell you what's really happening. I especially right now during covid things have shifted so much in so many industries. You have to a lot of my students are finding that they are pivoting based on the research that they're doing today. Right, and it's may be different in six months, but you have to do it and you have to know how to do it, because if you just go out and ask questions at Hawk, you don't know what to do with that afterwards. Right, is like okay, thank you. Yeah, you have to do it in a specific way. Yeah, so that's what I you have to Super Niche, but you have two super niche strategically and if like, I would never ask a gardener or, you know, like somebody who's like a painter to do my architectural drawing. So a super niche, a niche that you pick strategically, is like the architectural drawing that an architect draws for a blueprint. So know where to go to for the right advice and not all marketers know how to do that. Absolutely, I love it and asking, honestly, asking the market and being in a whether it's an individual or a team's, mindset of actually taking in the feedback instead of using your own biases to get the days in which one to. That's another skill set as well, which I've seen not get applied right. Yeah, Oh, no, I know. I have people pay me tens of thousands of dollars and not implement like one. They resist going out to the market and getting the answer and to once we get the answer, they don't implemented one because because they're so used to going back to their comfort zone of what they've been doing and saying in the market and too they're too scared to try it. So I've seen it to man. Absolutely all right, Charlie. For a listeners interested in talking more about the topics or getting in touch with you, where do you want us to send them? Reposition ercom. Gift is where you can if any of this resounds for you and you think I can help you, you can book a call with me directly through that. Reposition ercom is my website, and then gift is where you can claim your free book, the Gentle Marketing Book, all about you know how to niche, how to position, how to message, and then you can book a call with me as well if you think I...

...can help you. Awesome Child. I can't thank you enough for taking the time. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Yes, thank you, Chad. Thanks for having me and choosing me out of all the rivers of fans that you have. My goodness, I don't know about rivers, but I definitely have to wait through some some interesting pitches. Oh Wow. All right, everybody that does of this episode be to be Rev exactcom share with friends, family co workers. You know, the jolly was review on itunes if you like what you hear, and until next time. We value selling associates, which we all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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