The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 5 months ago

Building Authenticity For Purposeful ROI w/ Jeff Risley


The Old Way: The client comes to the marketing and PR agency looking for promotional opportunities. The agency sprays content, prays that it works and doesn’t do much else.

The New Way: The client comes to the marketing and PR agency looking for promotional opportunities. The agency dives deep, learns all they can, creates strategic roadmaps for success not only for their client but for the agency and becomes a powerhouse of success. This is the way. 

The customer journey is the most important aspect of putting together a successful campaign. 

From the first “hello” to every interaction after, how do you ensure that your customer’s brand has relevance, authenticity and purpose?

Today’s guest, Jeff Risley, Chief Growth Officer for Saxum, talked about investing in marketing and PR in order to get a maximum return on investment through sales. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • How to build credibility with your customers 
  • How customer success and service builds into revenue optimization
  • Why creating a lockstep approach to sales and marketing is essential

Now that you know how to conduct killer marketing tests, are you ready to learn how to hone your business’s competitive edge or use data to prevent revenue leaks in your business? Check out the full list of episodes: The B2B Revenue Executive Experience.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Executive Experience in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to the BB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, were tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two, one. Welcome everyone to the BDB revenue executive experience. I'm your host, Carlos No Che, and I'm joined by my cohost, Lisa shnaire. Say Hi, Lisa. Hey folks, thanks for being here today. We're talking about revenue marketing. We believe that today's CEOS and boards are demanding marketing teams to prove how the marketing investment is contributing to the sales and revenue growth and to help us out with that topic. Today we have Jeff Risley, chief growth officer of Saxon and issues of sessed agency, delivering strategic campaigns and digital solutions for this changing world that we're living in. Jeff, thank you so much for taking the time today and welcome to the show. Well, thank you, Lisa and Carlos. I really appreciate it. All Right, Jeff, before we jump into the topic, one little thing we like to do, and we asked all our guests right at the beginning. It's kind of our rule of warm up question to help us understand you a little bit better. What is something you are passionate about that those that only know you, Thupe is a US, would be surprised to know? Yeah, I love this question. It would be for me that I'm a fly fisherman. I am an avid fly fisherman. I love doing it and it's a little bit like marketing. Here's how it's not really mindless. It requires, you know, planning and thinking and skill and you know what, when it pays off and you actually catch fish, you know it feels great. Another reason why I am an avid fly fisherman is because I fly fish for trout primarily, and trout do not live in ugly places, so it's a great way to get out in the outdoors. So that's my thing, Carlos. Those trout have really good taste, do there, and they must. They must. Now, that's great. That's that's a fantastic hobby. Gets you outside, gets you enjoying the outdoors and some peace and quiet, and something I also have to say, I relate to. So to jump in though, tell us a little bit about Saxon, like what you do there and sort of your journey to get to this point in your career, if that would be a great start. Okay. Well, so Saxon is, as you said, and integrated marketing agency, obsessed for good. And so what we mean by that? First of all, integrated agencies, right, we do public relations, public affairs, advertising, media, you know, the whole nine yards, digital, all under one roof, and we think about it in terms of paid earned in own strategies for our clients. The obsessed for good part is very much about our positioning in our culture. We are here to do more than just make money and we want to help our clients do more than just make money. We feel like obsessed for good is meaningful and measurable change in the world. So this is near and dear to my heart. I've been in the marketing communications business for thirty years. I've worked on the agency side, worked on brand's side, B Tobbtc, and I love that we are so focused on purpose. Purpose is a big deal for a lot of consumers these days and we've been doing it for, you know, the twenty years of our existence. So that's sacks and that's how I got there. A little side note, I'm a Kyu j hawks, so go hawks, national champions. I am still riding that high too, so thanks for letting me slip that in. Shame less plug. Yeah, that's great. I love that. That commission for good sounds fantastic. And when we talk about Revenue Marketing, because I know that's that's really our subject today, what are we exactly talking about for...

...the audience? Can you describe it for us? You Bet so, Lisa. Revenue Marketing is it's a solution we offer to our clients that want to build. Really think three things sustainable, predictable, provable revenue generation. So typically, what I've seen throughout my career is that organizations really don't know what parts of their marketing are actually making a difference and driving sales. They spend a lot of money on it but don't necessarily think about how they connect it to sales. So there's no way to to actually fuel a consistent growth because they don't know where to double down. So Revenue Marketing has, you know, a series of components to it that help you do that and we just feel it's super important today. I mean CEOS don't care just about awareness and consideration and all the things as marketers we think about. They want to know did my investment impact my revenue growth? That's why I love the title of your podcast, because this is perfect for that kind of thing. We think very much alike that way. That's amazing and I just got to ask that question literally yesterday. Like I it was a startup company. I was TUK very early days. They have like for paying customers, and he was like where do I put my budget? Do I hire someone to do a bound prospecting or do I run an ad campaign? And me not being a marketer, I was kind of like that's a great question. You need to talk to Jeff know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and and I think it is. It's obviously a struggle, and particularly when you think about I mean in every organization, but particularly when you think about startups who have to make the decision. They only have so much budget to use to get to that next level. So what is going to be the biggest impact they can have with that that investment? So I love that idea and I know that's like something that's come up a lot over the last wealth long longer than just a few years. Is How customer demands have changed and how does that work kind of tie into the way you think about Revenue Marketing and making it successful? Yeah, exactly, Lisa. So I definitely in my career. They have changed dramatically and mostly buyers today, whether there be to see or be to be, there, looking for relevance, authenticity and purpose from their brands, especially Gen Z, the youngest buyers today, and so we tend to think about things in terms of your target audience and to be authentic and purpose driven for them. Brands today need to think about, Hey, all your stakeholders, not just your shareholders. You got to stand for something, hopefully something good. As a brand, you need to focus on impact. What does the impact you're making in the world, because that impact is something that consumers are going to be looking for. We're big on what we call liberating our leaders. It's our methodology for leadership development and that makes a huge difference on the work and the output that brands have and we just feel like today the consumers have a much higher bar. They have a higher bar for brands in terms of what they stand for, what they're doing in the world, in the impact they're making, and that's just on the purpose side. Then on the interaction side, basically Amazon, Google, apple everybody else to set a new standard for what it's like to now interact with a brand. And even if you'RE A B tob buyer, you expect simplicity, you expect it to be personalized, you don't want to be interrupted necessarily. So the bar is really high for marketers today and if you're not thinking about your target audience and how they view an interaction with you, you're totally missing the boat. All Right, Jeff, I want to get a little more granular. Just I'm really curious. So help me understand a little bit, or audience under saying a little bit. How do we determine whether it's the email marketing campaign I...

...send out the bed are calling them as part of that cadence, following that email, our website that they went and looked at because they got the email and thought, hey, what's all this about? I'm kind of curious. How do you determine what's generating the revenue versus what's not, what's more effective? Is that a fair question? It is, and it's what clients ask us. The answer is you have to begin and end with your buyer, and we always start by understanding them inside and out, you know, researching them quant and call, understanding the data analysis to see how they interact in general, and then from there we think about their buying journey. So we're big into developing personas and journey maps for clients. Before we even get to the question you asked, Carlos, which is where most clients want to go, tell me the tactics. How do I get to them? If we can get them to invest in that research and building that persona and journey map, we now know what motivates them and when they will most likely be acceptable of our messages, and so we are trying to find in our go to market planning those particular strategies and tactics. I can tell you the best way to think about it is some combination of paid, earned owned. So you're always going to have those elements present in different degrees if you actually want to get an Omni channel approach to reaching those people. So, for example, Saxon ourselves. We actually, you know, eat our own cooking, we follow Revenue Marketing, we actually have a go to market plan that has ongoing paid campaigns. We do earned media and we have an SDR that is doing a lot of the work. You're talking about a front and all of that is coordinated and the way we know how to put money on the things that are working is because of our marketing technology stack. If you don't have a crm, marketing automation tools and website and social content management systems connected, you'll never know if the tweet we sent out actually led to a potential deal that closed. So all of those analytics and metrics are what help us, you know, decide where we're going to put our effort and then we can tell our clients. Look, you do the same thing for you. That's how we help you guys decide whether to hire an SDR or do a paid search campaign or, you know, facebook a paid campaign. All all of that comes after you do that kind of upfront work. Does that answer the question, Carlos? It does. So it sounds like a first I need to understand who buys YEP and why they buy, and then the kind of like, you know, how they buy rights, if you think about their buyers, jury and correct you with that. We talked a lot about that ourselves as well. Is there any recommendations on what we should be measuring across these systems and what kind of outcomes we might be, you know, expecting. Yeah, definitely. So we're looking at think of it in three buckets. There's program metrics, right, so is my outbound email campaign. What are the open rates? What are the CLICKTHROUGH rates? You know, what are the number of people they're hitting my landing pages? This is all related to the program we're executing. That also means conversion rates. I mean all of those metrics that we as marketers love that the CEOS could care less about. But the next bucket is really about profitability. So if we can demonstrate how these things drive closed sales and the profitability of that new client or new customer, then is the next kind of bucket we think about metric wise. And then the last one is lifetime value. We're big believers in lifetime value over time. I mean I know I have got a great lifetime value, say with starbucks or state farm insurance, and that's powerful both for the consumer and...

...end for the marketer, because you have to treat different customers differently. So those are the buckets we think about, Carlos, and then there's just dozens of metrics within those and then we generally land on a few KPI's that we want to hit within each one of those buckets that'll do the most to show us we're driving sales. To end up getting into the argument of kind of chicken and egg? Hey, was it this, that troll this the drove that, or was it the other way around? To end up getting into those types of more theory conversation behind the scenes, or does the text act really help you prove it? Text that helps you prove it? You don't. You have way less of those discussions with clients because the data is right there. I mean multitouch attribution shows you the things that contributed to that particular sale or that particular deal or that particular action, whatever it may be. Might not be a sale, might be a vote, might be a show up, an event. Those are all out there. Don't have that Mare text act, man, we're constantly debating those things. Well, that's kind of leading to my next question, because Lisa and I and others on our team a was get you know, I got a question about content management recommendation the other day. Do you all, you know, have a you have to tell me what it is on this podcast, but do you have a recommended text act where you know it works together and it communicates better so you can get the useful data at the end of the day? Oh Man, great question. There are thousands and thousands of tools out there now for marketers. I mean, I don't know. I'm going to answer this the long question a long way. Do you guys remember the one to one future by peppers and Rodgers as a book that came out in one thousand nine hundred and ninety two? That convinced me that marketing can actually be very one to one driven. We can get there. They foresaw crm, and so all of that has been developing over the last, you know, couple of decades into thousands of tools. So to answer your question, you got to go through an analysis if yourself. We help clients do this to find the tools are going to work best for you. But I'll say up front we're big hub spot fans, where a hub spot partner. Hub spot to me is one of the best tools for CRM marketing automation. They have a website content management system so you can build websites in it very easy to use because adoptions difficult sometimes with sales people, in marketing people. So we're big hub spot fans. But I'm also very familiar and of view sales force and Pardo and or part dot, whatever you want to call it, Marquetto and I've also established put in place, you know, Microsoft three hundred and sixty. So we've used their dynamics. So all of them. Those are the big three, probably, and then there's dozens of smaller ones that you could use after that. Yeah, there and there's also seems to be I was just talking about it with another sales operations flee to Goo to day. There's also consolidation. Right, hey, the content management guys. Hey, they're trying to get through the sales enablement side. Sales and ablement guys are trying to do the content management side, and then you worry about all these different integration points. I think customers struggle. Hey, do I have the right tools in place? which tools should I have? And they all sound good. In fact they all sound like they you know, it sounds like it's going to take you tenzero tools just to do one thing. Sometimes it does, but I think you're right. You can. You can get it dialed in these days to one maybe two. I mean we're only using a few at this point as an agency for our clients, so most brands can porly pretty much land on one or two. Okay, so not being grant. You're at, Lisa, and I also believe, and we were talking about this is this podcast was coming up. You know, we're big believers at marketing and sales really need to be in lock step to optimize revenue. Yes, what are you some of your thoughts and what have you seen out there that works?...

It doesn't work. Totally agree, Carlos. You know, our clients that are doing revenue marketing the best are when marketing and all of the OPS are in sync with sales and all of the OPS. It gets very dicey the larger the organization gets. The smaller organizations naturally do this, and our revenue marketing solution really drives this. It sets it up to align those two divisions. What I found is when there's a chief revenue officers that oversees both, you got a better shot at making sure those two are sinking, because it's in that person's best interest that they do so. In those organizations where marketing and sales are still separate and report up to different like maybe a cmo and then, you know, a sales leader it can be a little more difficult. We have to align incentives to I mean, I'm a big believer that marketing people should also be incentivised by by closed deals, not just by conversion rates and lead Jen, because we're all in nothing happens unless somebody sells something. We gotta get that happening and our jobs marketers is to help that sales team by giving them the best chance to close it. And so it's we've got to align those two things or most you get dead, dead text acts, you get, you know, data that's not useful and you're always going to struggle in actually getting closed deals. So big believer. Yes, kind of continuing that Fox is as are as you were talking. I was thinking about we work with a lot of SASS companies, okay, and you know, if you think about it, it's you know, traditionally it's like at aligned. Hey, marketing generates, helps generate that top of funnel, sales helps close it. Oh yeah, and then services and customer success services them. But in reality that initial sale is the beginning in a SASS ball. If you truly want to have a flywheel. It's really a circle, right, and when you know, once you do that initial land, if you will, you gotta make them happy and satisfied so they actually use the product. So actually were neew with you and give you that expansion opportunity. Does the customer success and service the side of the equation, kind of fall into your whole revenue optimization? Absolutely, we actually think about it in terms of that fly wheel that you just mentioned and we also think about it in terms of delivery. So in the in the customer journeys that we put together for clients, we take it all the way through delivery, if they will allow us to, because we agree with you that the delivery of whatever it is Sass is really clear cut. But think about some of these companies out there that aren't selling products. It's a service, I mean like a professional service from like us. We have to use customer satisfaction data to see whether or not this client is, you know, potentially going to renew with us. You know, we we track all kinds of things there and try to get our clients to track that as well, because that will impact profitability and lifetime value, no question. And there's a point at which that customer client is always looking for an exit if they're not happy, and you can if you don't see that coming, you're not going to be able to head it off. So the good news is a lot of these text acts integrate the customer service side of things. You know, I know hub spot actually has a whole suite of customer service. So now I can see a universal picture. Sales Force has the same thing of that particular client and one version of the truth. Is what I'm looking for here so that I can actually then head off the things that you were just talking about as you're working out of those fire journeys. One of the things to think about at the end. I try to remode our clients, whether it's a product or service. Go live or install is not the yet. Yeah, in other words, just because you went live, does it mean you actually had that impact, that result,...

...that value expectation that you set up at the beginning? It's if you can finish off with that that's what really gets that fly will go on to the next step, because sometimes I think we just stopped short. Who We got it up and round it? Yeah, really now, you're right, Carlos. Totally be to be is that way. For sure, SASS products, for sure. I've had some great experience with SASS providers. I mean, I'll I'll give a shout out to zoom INFO. We're in users Zoom Info. That an amazing onboarding process. I mean it was great and you know, contrast that with some others that we've used before and it's just not so it makes a huge difference in the way we feel. It makes a big difference in recommendation. Heck, I just called out Zoom Info here. Is having a great onboarding experience and people won't do that unless they have that experience. So I think you're absolutely right. It's that a value based outcome at the and that makes all the difference. Totally all right. What more is you're a example of a marketing team and organization that you feel like, Hey, they're doing it right and they're getting the outcomes at they expect that. You would, you know, point out to us. Yes, and it's not one of our clients. I would love them to be a client, but I'm a huge fan of all birds. You guys familiar with all birds. She a shoe company. Right, me too, going to own more and because of several things they unite, in my mind, purpose and Revenue Marketing. They're completely purpose driven. Their whole thing is about developing the most sustainable shoe on the planet and they do an amazing job. Sustainability is core to their brand. On top of that, once they're experience with them is great. I mean from finding them to being able to interact and learn more about the products, to then moving me through consideration ultimately to a purchase and then to your point, Carlos, about the exchange is amazing. The way you buy the product, the way it comes packaged to you, is really cool, much like apples, but way more sustainable. And then the customer service afterwards and then the touch points I get as a customer from all birds is really amazing. So on point, they know a shoe I bought. They're making recommendations on other types of shoes that I might like. So I think all birds is got it dialed in. I don't know what their text ACC is, but I guarantee they got one and their marketing teams doing a great job. One of my clients visited a be for a fly fishing trip, by the way, Jeff as we could talk offline okay, and he bragged about all birds so much that I went out and bought a couple pair. Wow, so his ex you know, I'm just this is not intended to be a commercial from no, no sponsor. He talked about it so much, but we will accept your sponsorship. Talked about it so much, but got me to buy them and so far I've been really happy with the products. When Great. Yeah, word of mouth still works, by the way. Still Works. Yep, Yep, that's actually I heard about them through their return APP. They use returns APP on their shop of by a store, I think it's called loop, and I entered a contest with loop and they actually intentionally send you the wrong size so that you have to go through the return process and experience. My God, there APP so and it was fantastic. So, Lisa, that's cool. That's a cool story, Lisa. Yeah, I thought that was like exceptional marketing. Before and again it's like they partner with all birds, but it was the APP company that thought of it and I just thought, oh, it was fantastic and so and I got a free pair of Alberts that I lost. Yeah, exactly, love that story. I am amazing. So switching gears really quickly here, Jeff, because we asked a couple the questions of every guest towards...

...the end of our interviews. And okay, as a revenue executive, as a chief growth oughts are, you get prospected to all the time. So we're curious what actually captures your attention and builds credibility enough for you to reply. Oh great question. Three things. The first one a great cold email. I think cold emails are super effective. When the headline is really relevant and human and addresses a pain point, it'll get me to open it and then I'll start reading the headlet or start reading the copy and it's absolutely human. That, to me makes a great difference. I'm a big believer in cold email. We use it ourselves, plus I and I enjoy receiving those emails when they relate to my pains and problems. The second one helpful content. Not just going to say content, helpful content. So whether it's an Ebook, a video, some content that's seventy five percent about me, twenty five percent about the brand, I am totally fine with and I learn a ton. I stay on the edge by reading a lot of this content because if you think about the people who are marketing. To me as a marketing executive. They are way out in front, they know what's going on in the world and so their helpful content is great. I would say the last thing, more as a consumer. You know myself, instagram adds, instagram ads are killer right now. The ones that can anticipate what I'm thinking about and buying present enough information to me that I'll actually want to click through and check it out, and then the ones that have amazingly seamless buying. You know, interactions are great. In fact, I have a new rule now. I cannot use instagram. I cannot buy in bed. That is my rule, because you can set there and it's so easy with an instagram add face, I will. Yeah, that's right. So no more buying in bed. You have to at least get up and make sure that hey, yes, I really want to spend on this because it's so the interaction so amazing. Yeah, oh well, that's fantastic. Yeah, I'm the same way. I can't. I Make Myself Get up in research it a little more before before I'm just like face ID purchased. Yes, yes, I don't want to limit myself. That's fair. That's fair. Hey, Jeff. Well, one last question. You call up this acceleration insights. They see trying to you at the end of you to these. What might be one thing you would like to share with the audience that would help them in hitting their targets? Is they look at this whole idea of revenue marketing it, what might that be and why? What's that one take away you love to everyone to take away from this? Yeah, I love the acceleration inside. Great idea. I would say it kind of book inds, Carlos, what I started with. Begin and end with the buyer. Don't skip the research, don't skip the data mining, the SONA mapping in the journey. Mapping marketing is ultimately about connecting with these buyers and if you haven't done that work, you're really not going to connect with them. You'RE gonna expose yourself to them, you're going to throw things at them, but you're not going to connect with them. And so that would be my acceleration insight is beginning end with the buyer. We love that. We talked about that a lot in our work. So that's fantastic. Perfect. So, Jeff, if a listener is interested in talking to you more about these topics we touched on today. What's the best way you would like them to get in contact with you? Great. Yes, we actually have an Ebook on revenue marketing. If people will go to bold dot saxoncom forward slash revenue marketing, that is a book they can download that we wrote. That the talks about this philosophy and please tell me if it's seventy five percent helpful to you and twenty five percent about us, because I want to know that. That's the way it was designed anyway. So thanks, Lisa. Yes, that's where I would send people. Amazing. Okay, we will make sure that that is also...

...linked in the podcast. Jeff, really can't thank you enough for your time today. It's been great having you on the show. Thanks so much for being here, well, at least in Carlos. Thank you. I really enjoy the conversation. Love Your Guy's a show and appreciate being asked on. Thanks so much again for being here. All right, everybody that does it for this episode, please check us out at www dot exactcom. Share this episode with your friends and Family and Co workers and everyone and your dog, and do us a favor. If you love it, please throw us a five star review on itunes. Would really appreciate it. Until next time. We value selling associates wish you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the BB revenue executive experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show on Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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