The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 5 years ago

Bryan Kramer on Why the Future of Sales and Marketing Belongs to Humans—Not Robots

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Lately, we’ve spent a lot of time talking to people about the future of AI.

Today, we want to take a look at the other side of the coin: human to human interactions. At this point, you’ve probably heard the abbreviation “H2H,” made popular by a viral photo involving Bryan Kramer.

In this episode, Bryan talks about how the idea came to him, why he wrote his books Human to Human and Shareology, and what happened that one time he interviewed Ted Turner.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Today on the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience, we're talking with Brian Kramer, author of human to human and share Ology, about what human to human connections really mean and today's marketing and sales environment. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two one. Welcome everyone. I'm your host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about human to human connections and the way that they're impacting the sales and marketing profession. To do that, we're lucky enough to have Brian Kramer with us. He's the author of human to human. He was also the author of a book called Share Ology and and for all of those people that saw the the image that went viral on twitter and all the other social media out there, was the one giving the keynote speech at Bloomberg when the slide came up that said, three years ago, there is no such thing as B Toc or be to be. It is only h to h and today, with the rise of AI, automation machine learning, sales and marketing are being drastically impacted and we spent some time talking to other people in the field of artificial intelligence and today we wanted to take it back to the other side of the coin, really the human to human interactions and what what those mean, how to do them effectively and how they're impacting these professions. So, without further ado, let's jump into the interview with Brian. Welcome to the show, Brian. Want to say thank you very much for taking the time and welcome you today. Thank you so much. So, before we jump in, we kind of have the standard thing where we ask kind of an off the wall question at the beginning give our audience a little bit more insight into you as a person. We like to look back at your entire career, your life. We're looking for a defining moment, something that happened in your life that taught you a lesson that you go back to maybe change the trajectory of your career your life. You know, what was that event and what was the lesson you took away from it? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I address this exact same question on a on my ted talk was was was around the one moment I will never forget actually was about four and a half years ago when I owned and still own a a company called pure matter with my my partner and wife, and I went to her and said, you know, I delegated everything out. We have an awesome team, everyone's doing great work, we're making great money and I don't like it. I'm not having fun and I don't feel like I'm contributing and I feel like maybe I need to do something else. And that was not a pleasant conversation, but it was one that I that I needed to have and we figured out that, you know that even even though your you may be doing well, or in the eyes of others at least doing well, and do doing well also inside of your own company, or maybe you're...

...not doing well, it applies to both and that's that you have to love what you do and and from that point forward I set out to figure out what I really wanted to do when I when I grew up again, and and I did. I found out that I really, really enjoyed build, creating content and speaking and getting out and meeting people and teaching and educating and I got away from all that. And so I had all this great knowledge from the seventeen years of owning a great agency, but I wasn't really helping anyone with it. And so I started to interview executives at huge companies like Cisco and Sales Force and IBM, and I mean the CMOS and CEOS of all these wonderful companies, and they weren't saying no to the interviews, which was awesome. But we're even better was that I was learning from them while I was sitting there and interviewing them on video and we we I was getting to meet them, I was getting and learn from them and then, even better, it was being videoed, so then I got to put it out and help other people learn. And so I felt like this was where I belonged. And now I feel like I was contributing back to our agency in a great way and I was fulfilled in my own career excellent, excellently. I do definitely have to love what you do and I saw that Ted talk. It was a great talk, by the way, but I'm curious. You know, I think probably if we go back, I mean h h you hear a lot of that today, but when I look back, the first one of the first times I think I heard it might have actually been in your Ted Talk, and I'm kind of curious if you just give the audience kind of a better understanding your background and how that hdh concept kind of formulated and became a passion for you. Yeah, it was. It was something that I'd been talking about for years. We were talking about how, how, how every business needs to be as human as possible and how we try to automate so much and it this definition is changed over the years, you know, based upon where we're at right now. It's artificial intelligence and machine learning and and and and virtual reality and augmented reality and all of these things are pulling us away from those human moments and so I really am a huge cheerleader for the humans and I believe the humans will will be in and and I I believe that, you know, it's how we build connections and how we how we actually trust companies more and how we why we want to buy from their services is because of a connection with a human on the other end. And what what? That's what sustained us, sustains customer for life and so, so, so I was. I've been I've been talking about that for years. I would started building my brand, as I just mentioned, in terms of interviewing lots of people, and then one day I gave a keynote at Bloomberg and on the screen was there's no BEDB or be to see. It's human, human hh and and everyone kind of lifted their cameras or their phones, I mean, and they start a tweeting a picture of...

...that out a sign, and it went viral. It got over eighty million impressions and forty eight hours, it had over fifteen languages that we could count translated and well over twozero bloggers blogging about it somewhere on the Internet. And and so we quickly pulled a book together of all the things that I'd written in blogs or from the previous two years and self published it in four days to get a response out to everybody that was saying, what is this, what does this mean for where we're at today, and how do I humanize my company? And so we did that. That became a best seller and it really just kind of like went from there. I mean it just grew to the point where, again, I you know, got to do a Ted talk and speak all over the world and it was just it was just a really awesome thing that kind of happened to me. But at the same time, I helped to create this thing that I didn't even know was going to happen. That, I mean, that's a that's a great story. I I've seen that picture and it's amazing. You know, four days to pull all that content together to put a book out. That's that's a pretty impressive feet. I mean that will. I'm easy. I never, ever, ever, would have been able to do that if I hadn't been writing about it for two, two years. So, I mean the point point being is, if you blog, I'll. I blogged once a week, never never stopped and really enjoyed it and found, you know, found a lot of good reasons to do it, but I never realized that it was going to be actually end up in a book. So so it was kind of a kind of kind of a cool lesson that you can just take everything that you've written and and build a self publish a book. That's what I did. I sell published a book and put it out there. I obviously, you know, edited the content so that it made more sense in in its totality. But but I had something to work with and there's no way I could have done that in that amount time if I didn't write before. Excellent. So when you have a concept like human human, it's a big one. Obviously, the response that you got when that start to go viral, people wanted to know more about it. Right, it is a it seems to me to be a lens. Right, it's a almost it's almost like a basic change of the way you look at the world. Now for me, but with a career in sales, that concept that people buy from people. Right, that's something that we've know, we talked about a lot. But I'm curious when we look at you know, if you take that as a Lens and you look at marketing, how do you apply it? Right, if, if HH is your perspective, Your Lens, how does that impact choosing the right marketing approach, the right content, the right messaging and distribution? What does that kind of help us look through that lens and understand that a little better? Yeah, it's kind of you know, everyone's trying to automate so much and and and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think where people lose out is when they don't put the right human touch points in inside of their automation. And that's what edge is all about. It's about building a relationship between two or more people and when you don't build that relationship, you distance yourself from the customer. So so there is some level of and there's a lot of tools and a lot of ways you could do that and I'm I don't think we have enough time to go into like...

...the technical details about it. That here but there. But but it is the the overarching message there is that it does need to happen if you want to stand out, because there's so much content out there and there's so many automations and there's so much like, you know, the proverbial mail coming at us, but now it's email and and and so so all of that, all of that stuff is so important, but it's even more important that you stand out from every other email that's out there. And the only way to do that really is is two things. One, your message has to be has to resonate with your audience. Most you know, a lot of times people won't do that or they don't humanize their content to really talk to their audience. Start talk with their audience and to is just to build a relationship over time, whether it sir storytelling or even connecting as a human. And so when we were prepping for the interview, you mentioned creating a funnel of human touch points. Can you just kind of give us maybe it's maybe it's an abstracted and you're right, I would loved, I would love to go into all the technical details of how that works, much to the would keep all the audience around all day. But in terms of the funnel with human touch points, can you help illustrate that a little better? Yeah, yeah, I you know, like let's let's just take one example of a chatbot. There's there's there's a whole line up, probably, I don't know, twenty, thirty, forty. Different way is depending upon what kind of funnel you're building and what kind of company you are, which is why I need such a big range. But but the the the the idea is that you're giving a way to there's no way that you can scale relationships. There's no way that you can if you're just one person or you're just ten sales people at a company, depend upon the size of your company. Scaling is really hard. And if you put yourself out there and all these people are coming back and saying, how do I sell or how do I get in touch with someone, and you can't, you don't have literally the manpower, the women power, to do that, then it then then that has to be automated. But but if you can start to learn exactly the touch points where you know, maybe people drop off, maybe they they aren't converting in a certain area or they're not they're not opting in or or maybe they went to your shopping cart five times but they didn't convert. Well, all these little things could be reasons to actually then reach out and skin and be able to actually scal more of a human touch points. So again, going back to a chat bought, if you I do, I do wish that the name wasn't bought because it really screws up the the what a chat bought can could could help you with. Most people are just automating the heck out of it and I think that's wrong. But but there is a certain level of automation where you can on board people and let them know who you are and then, like for my chat bought, if you go to a my facebook page at Brian Kramer and you just message me, you'll you'll get, you know,...

...a sequence of messages over the course of seven days that will give you an idea as to who I am, and at any point you can say talk to human and it will immediately put you in touch with me. And so that allows me to actually talk to people about some serious questions or even one of the points of one of those sequences, and that that point I can start to even message out to everybody at once and answer questions from people or get to know them, and at that point you can then even move them from there to email, where again, a whole nother sequence of human touch points could begin. So this is pretty endless in terms of what you can do in the types of tools you can use. You know, there's video, there's there's there's ways of actually connecting through messenger and adds. There's all kinds of things that you can do to humanize almost everything that you do. You just have to be we have to be able to plan right for that and actually I'm building a course right now called the human sales funnel that help outlines and helps to do that. But I know that doesn't help your audience but it's it's certainly it's certainly something that that. If you take anything away from anything that I just said, it's you have to map it out ahead of time. You have to you have to say, okay, here are the five ways, five things that you can do to do that. Sorry, I'm having a human moment right now with my daughter. That's it's totally fine. So you mentioned sales, right, so we hear a lot, especially, as you know, Ai, a, machine learning, all the automation stuff that you mentioned on the marketing side is impacting sales. And from the marketing side it always seemed to me that the date is there. It's much more of a data driven type of interaction. So it kind of lends itself for over AI and that type of stuff to show up there. But in a bet to be complex sales environment, the buyers are getting much more complex, right, and they're bringing with them into these interactions their expectations that the experience they have with the salespeople is frictionless, because that's what they're experiencing on the be to sea side, right. So when when you look at the sales organizations from your experience that you've worked with her, talk to how does that show up? How do you help the sales people understand that critical factor? that it people are buying from people and you have to have that human, human connection. Yeah, how do you have you understand that? I think you know, one of the simple ways, that the most simple way, is to reach out and ask people what they think and and actually have a conversation. So, you know, I literally like to pick up the phone and actually, I know this is a new new concept, to pick up a phone and actually call somebody, but but but it actually like pick up the phone and actually maybe call five of your customers and say why are you kind of why are my customer? What? What? What made you when endeared you to my message or my product or my service, and and and share that with me and now I'll send your messaging. Can become a little bit more clear so that you're your your building in the right...

...things that are going to help address questions during that very sophisticated sales process, which which a be to be process is or, as again I call it an HDH process, even more so because because everyone has access to the customer. Now, anybody can pick up the phone, anyone can get on twitter, anyone can go on to facebook, anyone can go to social media, on Linkedin, on anywhere and actually see what people are talking about about your products, service or or in your the niche that you're in. And that wasn't the case over ten years ago. You weren't able to actually get on to social media see what people are saying, which is why it made the the process even more sophisticated, because now then you're guessing even more so and or you're going to do focus groups behind one way mirrors with MM's and great food behind the the mirrors, and and so so now you know the focus group is the world and you can go go out there and start to create hd age experiences that will help your sales, your human sales funnel close that much better. And so when you've talked to the companies, I mean it's a it's a shift, right, it is. I've seen it a lot of the clients that we work with. I see it. I see them struggle with that concept of, you know, trying to understand an interaction from their customer or their buyers perspective. Right, I'm kind of curious just been your interactions with other companies? What's been the largest challenge to get the you know, the Lightbulb to come on and then, more importantly, stay on because you can get you can see it in their eyes when it oh yeah, I understand that, but then the implementation of that is often a challenge. I'm just kind of curious what you've seen out there as you as you've worked with and talk to these other companies. I think I think it's I think it's just a manner of most people are not, maybe not clinically clinically diagnosed as add but I but I do think most cut most people or marketers or business owners are operate under the let's just do it and see how it goes, which is a great way to be. But then, you know, learn from that and plan it out. I think you know, again, putting the right plan in place and having the right messaging. If you just do those two things, you're going to you're going to probably shoot past your competitor, because most people don't take time to message themselves correctly and build a messaging ladder or tree so that maybe everyone else within your company or everyone else that's going to sell your services around you or help you sell, maybe your partners or whoever it is, you know, they know and have those that information to be able to to speak as though they were you and they are in your head and and be able to carry that message through all of your marketing touch points. And then, you know, the second thing is is, as I said, is just really building building out the plan for where those human touch points are going to be. You know, well, the plan, the plan overall in terms of everything that's going to be included...

...in how your sales process, you know, goes through, whether it's a fun or an in person process or both. But but at what points are you going to in inject yourself into that so that you're giving them a way to connect with you? Let's talk about your books. I mean there's there. We talked about the one of the beginning that, you know, went out in four days. Think I understand this, but I'd love for you to explain to our aren't how do you get the creative spark? Where does it come from to continually keep evolving that ht age perspective and put the books out? We where did that creativity and that spark come from for these books? Ht Age came out three years ago and then share Al g followed shere. AL G was supposed to be my first book. It's the book I was working on, and then it took a back seat and I because H H was a surprise baby. So I worked on that and then, and then I went back and wrote share, I'll share Ald, which made you even better sense, because it's how sharing powers the human economy. And it actually felt way. It felt way better and in line with that. And and so the the the spark really became the the HH that one time on stage when I was standing there and and said what I said and having it go viral made it made everything else move forward. That was the that was a spark. And then HH went on to sell, I think it's somewhere around Fifteenzo books. And then from that I launched share all g a year later, and and that ended up Sally, I think, somewhere around twenty nine thousand books with with now two languages, in Russian and Chinese. Wow. So hh was the one that came out as a result of of the the Bloomberg Talk. Yes, AH, H came out as a result of that talk. It was it was actually we actually wrote it one week after that talk, and so, as it been updated recently, the reason ask because I had boarded them both off Amazon and and it, I swear, I swear, it told me that HDH was just came out this February and I'm curious. was here an update? Maybe we need to maybe a need another copy? No, no, but it was. We did have an issue on Amazon. It sold out and so we had to go back in and then re update Amazon so that you could be looking at you could have been looking at Amazon when it went it. It was. It was out actually, I think, for a month and I was trying to feel that everybody's it was a good problem to have, right. We're trying to we're trying to feel that everybody's challenge, and so we had to go back in and we had some some technical issues. We had to reset everything up and get it all situated on Amazon. So that could be the reason that you're you were seeing it as a as a new book. Okay, Gotcha. And so with those books, what are you most proud of in terms of the impact of those books? Oh my God, that's like that's like saying how how are you most proud of your your your son or your daughter in...

...every way? Okay, so I think you know. Well, both books different. Are Different. For me, I spent, you know, way more time. I spent a whole year doing research for share AL G and so the the research of and and the interviews I did with over two hundred and fifty people from all walks of life, answering the single question of why people share and boiling it down to a very specific set of things that they could do to help things go you know, do things like go viral or share something that that that really, you know, reaches the right audience. So that was that was really exciting for me was just the research that went in that book. From an H perspective, I think I would say it just created, you know, the movement that it created was was the biggest thing for me, and it was. It was, you know, I was able to really and humble to speak around the world and and I spoken well over fifteen countries, meeting all these great people and and just like seeing them, you know, when they'd walk up and say, Oh h H whereas it I can't even believe this. It's, you know, exactly what we needed. And I'm like, it's always been that way. We you know, we've always had people coming up and selling selling us think, think back to the door to door salesman who sold you a vacuum or delivered your milk back in the day. And that's true. Hjh right, right, and and so the reason I think it resonate more now than ever is because we're starting to depart from that level of HH and and I think that that's it's becoming cyclical. It's it's like bell bottoms are back. We really we really want to connect with other people and and that is the biggest driver for why we share. So that knowing that, then, I think makes it even more more needed now more than ever. It's kind of like looking at your direct mail, you know, wet back when we used to get actual mail in the mailbox and you'd be like so overwhelmed with the amount of mail that was coming in. And now if you get a thank you letter written out your it's like it's like a golden like Oh my God, somebody wrote me a letter, you know. And and the same thing happens now with with digital like, Oh my God, someone actually wrote me an email. It wasn't automated, it wasn't you know, or they did a video just to me, like these little things are the things that make you stand out, and that's why I think H H is so important. Even if you've been in sales for decades, new technology, new buyers and new dynamics create challenges your team may not be ready for. Value Prime solutions enables you to focus on sales, on the prospects and customers, not the noise, and the sales framework you implement with them is simple, scalable and proven. CHECK OUT VALUE PRIME SOLUTIONSCOM and ask how they can help you beat your target. So we mentioned the Ted talk earlier, where you know you came to that realization. You had to have the painful conversation with your wife. It sounds...

...like that was, while a painful conversation, it sounds like you're definitely where you want to be and things are going great. Is that a fair assessment? Yes, absolutely. I still a lot, a lot more I want to accomplished, but I'm really excited about where I'm at. And so I have to ask. When I was doing my research before for the ever you, I notice you interview Ted Turner. What what was what was that like? Oh Man, it was the most excruciating experience of my life. He did in he looked pretty grumpy in the video I got. Yeah, you watched it? Okay, so well, so, first and foremost, he is. He really was actually as pleasant, as more pleasant than I thought he would be it because he really is kind of known for being a little more grumpy, like you saw, and he's also known for walking off set. He won't stay on camera for longer than about three to five minutes, and I knew both those things going into it. I was there to interview him for a humanitarian award that he received and and when I told him that I was a Rotarian, which you'll which if you watched it, then you'll you'll you'll remember that there it was right in the middle. So once I told him I was a Rotarian, it was like we're best friends and he was just totally in the everything that we're talking about. We ended up going for seventeen minutes or nineteen minutes, I can't remember. And and afterwards, his son was actually one of the video videographers, and afterwards when he left, and he did walk off, by the way, so he eventually did just stand up and walk away. So I was like, Oh, okay, he there it is, but but but he, he, he, really, he, really he. If I realize that, if, if, if I got him to talk about or if we were able to talk about anything on the humanitarian side, then he was very comfortable talking about that and I was gonna have a much more successful interview if we talked about anything around CNN. That was not a passion point of his because of how things ended for him. So I stayed far away from CNN and and it turned out to be a good, good, good thing, because most everybody asks him about CNN because they want to know about it and I think there's so much more to him and what he's done in the world that that it wasn't needed. Excellent. All right, so we mentioned it. He mentioned the agency Puer matter a little bit ago. Let's pivot a little bit here. Can you give our own it's just an overview of what pure matter does and how you guys work with clients? Yeah, so, well, we have three different companies. We have peer matter, which is a consultancy. It's a marketing consultancy and and that we work with clients. Were kind of like they're virtual outsourced CMO, and we work with both clients and individuals and we, I'll coach individuals and help them with their personal brand or their becoming an influencer on some some perspective. I have CMOS and VP's of marketing and and and and entrepreneur CEOS, smaller buses of CEOS, and they each want to build their their personal brand on, you know, all different levels, whether it's getting out on speaking or it's, you know, building towards a potential...

Ted x talk or Ted Talk, or or they want to write a book or they want to get out there and do those kinds of things that we do. That or peer matter also provides. We also are outsourced, like as a CMO. So we'll go in and actually do the planning for that whole road map that I was talking about. How do you build your entire Marketing Road Map? And then what's the will build in all those little h you know, hh touch points and and figure the whole thing out. For a company it's kind of get done for you, you know road map. And so there's that. And then we have h age companies, which which has a shage university. We offer courses and we have courses on what's coming out in five weeks. I mentioned the human sales funnel, where we'll teach people to actually build those road maps and actually walk them through the technology and how to set up the you know, even a Bot and and do all these different things. And then we have Hg club, which is where it's a membership site and people can enjoin and and and learn all these things as a as kind of like your outsourced CMO on demand. So you can just go into the club and ask any questions you want. And then we have master classes every month from awesome people or teaching how how to do facebook ads and how to do all kinds of really cool things. And then the last thing I do is I just I I have my own business which is called it's very creative, right. It's called Brian Qu Hmer and and and that's that's really focused on my speaking and writing career. So everything that I do in any time I get on a stage, it's put into that category. So No, you know, no lack of things to do. It sounds like. Oh, and I have two kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's it's all my times divided in the thirds. That way. Excellent. So when you think about all those businesses and and you have to as a business owner, you've got to think you know, strategically. I mean it sounds like the diversification of the companies has kind of happened organically almost, but when you look at, you know, your businesses right now, what would you say your top strategic business objective is? What is my top strategic business objective? It is to it is to teach people that eat while the robots are coming, that the humans have a place and we can, we can, we can coexist. And I'm, I'm, I'm I know it sounds funny, but I'm actually not, not totally kidding, because I do believe that as people automate more and more all these different things, the more we're going to have to learn new skill sets and if you're not out there learning new skill sets, then you probably are going to have your job being jeopardy. Not to be like the total Downer on this whole thing, but you know, there is a lot that can be automated and will be continuing to be automated, and the more that we can learn skill sets that allow us to stay relevant, the better that that the more solid your career...

...is going to be. And so I feel like my job is to help teach people how to stay relevant. Yeah, I interviewed Justin Williams. He's a CEO of one of the companies going after the IBM WATSON AI x prize. I toub we've talked to him last week. I think that for people that are listening, I think that episod comes out next week. But we were talking about the progression of AI and the augmentation. Like I said earlier, I think it's it shows up more effectively marketing because it's there's so much data. But on the sales side, we were talking about is is Elon right? Are we all headed for, you know, doom? Or what are the salespeople you know that adopt the technology, that learned those new skills that you talked about? What does that look like in the future? Is a fabulous conversation. Really enjoyed talking to him about it and I think you're right. I think you know, if you stay on top of it, you continue to learn the skills and never lose sight of that ht age, I think those are going to be the people that are going to be in the best place for success in the future. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we IBM was our is our client and we did all the the we did the first global influencer program for for Watson for for several years and then and and it was very powerful and it really got everyone to experience what Watson was like. We had thirty influencers inside of Watson, using it and then creating content out of that to help show exactly what it was that you're talking about in terms of how you can use this data to make decisions. But the decisions that need to be made, those are the human that's the hue that, that's where humans come in, and and so so. So really it is humans and machines working together to do this stuff and I don't think that that's ever going I don't think it's going to change. I don't think the robots are kind of going to take over. I don't think that we're going we're in jeopardy of that. If anything, I would just say the biggest question is are we're going to be chipped or not as humans, but that's a that's a that's a that's a whole different podcast, but I think, I think that that's really an important thing that you just brought up, is how is data going to be used with ai and but who is making those decisions once we have once we have the information, and so there you know, there's there's input and there's output. You have to ask a machine a question in order for it to deliver a result. The question always has to come from a human because if you don't know what question to ask, it won't do anything. You have to say I want you to go out and do this. If you don't ask it that question, there is no response. So we, as humans, were building these questions and then we're interpreting the data on the other end. That's our role, that will be our role. So if you don't know how to ask the right question of it, you don't know how to interpret the data out of it. That's the skill sets that need to be learned. Yeah, and I think I mean I think you hit on a really valid point there, the questioning aspect of that. We spend a lot of time with our clients helping them understand how to ask better questions, and I think I've seen more now. I was an English major as an Undergrad, so I've spent a lot of time writing...

...and reading questions, but I see it as more of a skill set that definitely needs to be developed. Are you asking the right types of questions well thought out, you know, kind of that for thought. You talked about having that plan. So it's easy when you're talking to a human being just kind of wing it, like we're doing now, just kind of having a conversation, but when you're interfacing with something like Ai, you really need to be careful the questions you're asking so you get the right answers. Absolutely, absolutely. That goes for everything in life, right. Yeah, I've asked some extremely dumb questions in my parents all those here. Those are human moments too. Oh Yeah, yeah, painfully human. That's when it's painfully I actually have a term for that. I have a whole key note that I give on it's called how to embrace your inner Fokker, fock, by the way, I focke are and and it's it's based on Gay Lord Fokker from meet the parents and how how basic, basically dumb and the dumb things he does through those movies. But at the same time we can't help but love him and embrace everything he does and we side with him and just want the best for him and and and I just think he's the ultimate human for for what he does. And so I think there's a lot to that. Actually, when you have like when my dog marks in the background, you're like, Oh crap, but no, really it's a good thing because you know we're not perfect. This is not what humanity is about. Well, and that's one of the things I tell all our guests. Look, I'm not looking, there are some podcasts out there or big production companies getting into doing podcast and we look, we invest in in the equipment for the sound quality and we want the experience for our guests to be good. But I specifically say in the email there's no such thing as perfect. I've had, you know, the ups Guy Inevitably is going to ring the right here in the middle of an interview with somebody, and also the DOORBELLG is off or truck right. Let mean, it's just, it's just the way it is. Right. You have to put embrace that. Embrace that. All right. So getting towards the end here got last question. We call it our acceleration insight. So if there was one thing you could tell sales, marketing professional services people, one piece of advice you give them that will help them hit their targets be more successful, what would it be? M Why? One piece of advice that I would give them that would help them hit their targets. You know, I think I would probably I would say. I would say understanding your audience better. So let's just take let's take facebook ads, for example. There's there's there's unlimited come combinations of people that ways that you can dissect audiences on facebook. And if you're going to set audiences up and figure out, figure out through a be testing which audience works, that's one way to do it. But but the the other way is to actually, like I said before, actually ask your existing audience or existing customers, why...

...did they buy from you and start to break that down first and then and then drill. And I would combine that with you know, what you know. Kind of think of this as the Master Card circles, right. There's one circle that's the what you know, and then there's the other circle of the research and data that's out there. And there's so much research and data that's out there that if you can combine the best of what's out there using tools like Watson, and there is a free version of Watson that you can go in and actually upload your data and it will break it down for you. You could take your email list and upload it into facebook and it's going to break down all the psychographic and demographic information about your email list in facebook and it's going to pull data from nine different sources and tell you exactly what their interests are and what their likes are and what they where they shop and all this great stuff. Don't worry, it's not going to call you out by name. This is it, but it, but it will give you the general idea behind your audience. Now, if you can match what your existing audience is doing, combined with what you already know from using data, combined with what you already know from your existing customers, and then now you create your audience in a face you know, in facebook ads or in whatever it is that you're going to do. Man, you're going to you're going to save yourself so much time and money. Perfect, perfect, Brian. If for listeners interested in talking more about topics we've touched on today, what's the best way to get in contact with you? Email me and I will reply back, and then you'll reply back and then I'll reply back again and we will have a conversation from one human to another. That is the best way to do it. Brian, B our Y A N at Brian B our why a and Kramer Kra a mercom. So Brian and Brian kramercom. There's a Y in, a K in there and and then will email each other at were you can. If you just want to check me out, you don't want to have a conversation yet. I totally get it. Go to Brian kramercom and that's that's another good way, or at Brian Kramer on any social channel. Perfect, perfect brand. I can't thank you enough for taking the time today. It's been absolutely great having it on the show. Thank you so much. That's been great. I love your questions. Thanks all right, everybody that does it for this episode. Please check us out at be tob REV exactcom. Share the episode with friends, families, Co workers, anybody that you think we'll get value from it. If you if you like what you here, please drop us a review on itunes. We use those that feedback to make sure we're bring the right guess on for you guys, so you continue to keep coming back again. Thanks everybody for being here and until next time we have value prime solutions. Wish you all nothing but the greatest success. You've been listening to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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