The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Bryan Kramer on Why the Future of Sales and Marketing Belongs to Humans—Not Robots

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Lately, we’ve spent a lot of time talking to people about the future of AI.

Today, we want to take a look at the other side of the coin: human to human interactions. At this point, you’ve probably heard the abbreviation “H2H,” made popular by a viral photo involving Bryan Kramer.

In this episode, Bryan talks about how the idea came to him, why he wrote his books Human to Human and Shareology, and what happened that one time he interviewed Ted Turner.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Today on the B Tob Revenue ExecutiveExperience, we're talking with Brian Kramer, author of human to human and shareOlogy, about what human to human connections really mean and today's marketing and salesenvironment. You're listening to the BDB revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated tohelping the executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you'relooking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three, two one. Welcome everyone. I'myour host, Chad Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about humanto human connections and the way that they're impacting the sales and marketing profession.To do that, we're lucky enough to have Brian Kramer with us. He'sthe author of human to human. He was also the author of a bookcalled Share Ology and and for all of those people that saw the the imagethat went viral on twitter and all the other social media out there, wasthe one giving the keynote speech at Bloomberg when the slide came up that said, three years ago, there is no such thing as B Toc or beto be. It is only h to h and today, with the riseof AI, automation machine learning, sales and marketing are being drastically impacted andwe spent some time talking to other people in the field of artificial intelligence andtoday we wanted to take it back to the other side of the coin,really the human to human interactions and what what those mean, how to dothem effectively and how they're impacting these professions. So, without further ado, let'sjump into the interview with Brian. Welcome to the show, Brian.Want to say thank you very much for taking the time and welcome you today. Thank you so much. So, before we jump in, we kindof have the standard thing where we ask kind of an off the wall questionat the beginning give our audience a little bit more insight into you as aperson. We like to look back at your entire career, your life.We're looking for a defining moment, something that happened in your life that taughtyou a lesson that you go back to maybe change the trajectory of your careeryour life. You know, what was that event and what was the lessonyou took away from it? Yeah, you know, it's funny. Iaddress this exact same question on a on my ted talk was was was aroundthe one moment I will never forget actually was about four and a half yearsago when I owned and still own a a company called pure matter with mymy partner and wife, and I went to her and said, you know, I delegated everything out. We have an awesome team, everyone's doing greatwork, we're making great money and I don't like it. I'm not havingfun and I don't feel like I'm contributing and I feel like maybe I needto do something else. And that was not a pleasant conversation, but itwas one that I that I needed to have and we figured out that,you know that even even though your you may be doing well, or inthe eyes of others at least doing well, and do doing well also inside ofyour own company, or maybe you're...

...not doing well, it applies toboth and that's that you have to love what you do and and from thatpoint forward I set out to figure out what I really wanted to do whenI when I grew up again, and and I did. I found outthat I really, really enjoyed build, creating content and speaking and getting outand meeting people and teaching and educating and I got away from all that.And so I had all this great knowledge from the seventeen years of owning agreat agency, but I wasn't really helping anyone with it. And so Istarted to interview executives at huge companies like Cisco and Sales Force and IBM,and I mean the CMOS and CEOS of all these wonderful companies, and theyweren't saying no to the interviews, which was awesome. But we're even betterwas that I was learning from them while I was sitting there and interviewing themon video and we we I was getting to meet them, I was gettingand learn from them and then, even better, it was being videoed,so then I got to put it out and help other people learn. Andso I felt like this was where I belonged. And now I feel likeI was contributing back to our agency in a great way and I was fulfilledin my own career excellent, excellently. I do definitely have to love whatyou do and I saw that Ted talk. It was a great talk, bythe way, but I'm curious. You know, I think probably ifwe go back, I mean h h you hear a lot of that today, but when I look back, the first one of the first times Ithink I heard it might have actually been in your Ted Talk, and I'mkind of curious if you just give the audience kind of a better understanding yourbackground and how that hdh concept kind of formulated and became a passion for you. Yeah, it was. It was something that I'd been talking about foryears. We were talking about how, how, how every business needs tobe as human as possible and how we try to automate so much and itthis definition is changed over the years, you know, based upon where we'reat right now. It's artificial intelligence and machine learning and and and and virtualreality and augmented reality and all of these things are pulling us away from thosehuman moments and so I really am a huge cheerleader for the humans and Ibelieve the humans will will be in and and I I believe that, youknow, it's how we build connections and how we how we actually trust companiesmore and how we why we want to buy from their services is because ofa connection with a human on the other end. And what what? That'swhat sustained us, sustains customer for life and so, so, so Iwas. I've been I've been talking about that for years. I would startedbuilding my brand, as I just mentioned, in terms of interviewing lots of people, and then one day I gave a keynote at Bloomberg and on thescreen was there's no BEDB or be to see. It's human, human hhand and everyone kind of lifted their cameras or their phones, I mean,and they start a tweeting a picture of...

...that out a sign, and itwent viral. It got over eighty million impressions and forty eight hours, ithad over fifteen languages that we could count translated and well over twozero bloggers bloggingabout it somewhere on the Internet. And and so we quickly pulled a booktogether of all the things that I'd written in blogs or from the previous twoyears and self published it in four days to get a response out to everybodythat was saying, what is this, what does this mean for where we'reat today, and how do I humanize my company? And so we didthat. That became a best seller and it really just kind of like wentfrom there. I mean it just grew to the point where, again,I you know, got to do a Ted talk and speak all over theworld and it was just it was just a really awesome thing that kind ofhappened to me. But at the same time, I helped to create thisthing that I didn't even know was going to happen. That, I mean, that's a that's a great story. I I've seen that picture and it'samazing. You know, four days to pull all that content together to puta book out. That's that's a pretty impressive feet. I mean that will. I'm easy. I never, ever, ever, would have been able todo that if I hadn't been writing about it for two, two years. So, I mean the point point being is, if you blog,I'll. I blogged once a week, never never stopped and really enjoyed itand found, you know, found a lot of good reasons to do it, but I never realized that it was going to be actually end up ina book. So so it was kind of a kind of kind of acool lesson that you can just take everything that you've written and and build aself publish a book. That's what I did. I sell published a bookand put it out there. I obviously, you know, edited the content sothat it made more sense in in its totality. But but I hadsomething to work with and there's no way I could have done that in thatamount time if I didn't write before. Excellent. So when you have aconcept like human human, it's a big one. Obviously, the response thatyou got when that start to go viral, people wanted to know more about it. Right, it is a it seems to me to be a lens. Right, it's a almost it's almost like a basic change of the wayyou look at the world. Now for me, but with a career insales, that concept that people buy from people. Right, that's something thatwe've know, we talked about a lot. But I'm curious when we look atyou know, if you take that as a Lens and you look atmarketing, how do you apply it? Right, if, if HH isyour perspective, Your Lens, how does that impact choosing the right marketing approach, the right content, the right messaging and distribution? What does that kindof help us look through that lens and understand that a little better? Yeah, it's kind of you know, everyone's trying to automate so much and andand there's nothing wrong with that, but I think where people lose out iswhen they don't put the right human touch points in inside of their automation.And that's what edge is all about. It's about building a relationship between twoor more people and when you don't build that relationship, you distance yourself fromthe customer. So so there is some level of and there's a lot oftools and a lot of ways you could do that and I'm I don't thinkwe have enough time to go into like...

...the technical details about it. Thathere but there. But but it is the the overarching message there is thatit does need to happen if you want to stand out, because there's somuch content out there and there's so many automations and there's so much like,you know, the proverbial mail coming at us, but now it's email andand and so so all of that, all of that stuff is so important, but it's even more important that you stand out from every other email that'sout there. And the only way to do that really is is two things. One, your message has to be has to resonate with your audience.Most you know, a lot of times people won't do that or they don'thumanize their content to really talk to their audience. Start talk with their audienceand to is just to build a relationship over time, whether it sir storytellingor even connecting as a human. And so when we were prepping for theinterview, you mentioned creating a funnel of human touch points. Can you justkind of give us maybe it's maybe it's an abstracted and you're right, Iwould loved, I would love to go into all the technical details of howthat works, much to the would keep all the audience around all day.But in terms of the funnel with human touch points, can you help illustratethat a little better? Yeah, yeah, I you know, like let's let'sjust take one example of a chatbot. There's there's there's a whole line up, probably, I don't know, twenty, thirty, forty. Differentway is depending upon what kind of funnel you're building and what kind of companyyou are, which is why I need such a big range. But butthe the the the idea is that you're giving a way to there's no waythat you can scale relationships. There's no way that you can if you're justone person or you're just ten sales people at a company, depend upon thesize of your company. Scaling is really hard. And if you put yourselfout there and all these people are coming back and saying, how do Isell or how do I get in touch with someone, and you can't,you don't have literally the manpower, the women power, to do that,then it then then that has to be automated. But but if you canstart to learn exactly the touch points where you know, maybe people drop off, maybe they they aren't converting in a certain area or they're not they're notopting in or or maybe they went to your shopping cart five times but theydidn't convert. Well, all these little things could be reasons to actually thenreach out and skin and be able to actually scal more of a human touchpoints. So again, going back to a chat bought, if you Ido, I do wish that the name wasn't bought because it really screws upthe the what a chat bought can could could help you with. Most peopleare just automating the heck out of it and I think that's wrong. Butbut there is a certain level of automation where you can on board people andlet them know who you are and then, like for my chat bought, ifyou go to a my facebook page at Brian Kramer and you just messageme, you'll you'll get, you know,...

...a sequence of messages over the courseof seven days that will give you an idea as to who I am, and at any point you can say talk to human and it will immediatelyput you in touch with me. And so that allows me to actually talkto people about some serious questions or even one of the points of one ofthose sequences, and that that point I can start to even message out toeverybody at once and answer questions from people or get to know them, andat that point you can then even move them from there to email, whereagain, a whole nother sequence of human touch points could begin. So thisis pretty endless in terms of what you can do in the types of toolsyou can use. You know, there's video, there's there's there's ways ofactually connecting through messenger and adds. There's all kinds of things that you cando to humanize almost everything that you do. You just have to be we haveto be able to plan right for that and actually I'm building a courseright now called the human sales funnel that help outlines and helps to do that. But I know that doesn't help your audience but it's it's certainly it's certainlysomething that that. If you take anything away from anything that I just said, it's you have to map it out ahead of time. You have toyou have to say, okay, here are the five ways, five thingsthat you can do to do that. Sorry, I'm having a human momentright now with my daughter. That's it's totally fine. So you mentioned sales, right, so we hear a lot, especially, as you know, Ai, a, machine learning, all the automation stuff that you mentioned onthe marketing side is impacting sales. And from the marketing side it always seemedto me that the date is there. It's much more of a data driventype of interaction. So it kind of lends itself for over AI and thattype of stuff to show up there. But in a bet to be complexsales environment, the buyers are getting much more complex, right, and they'rebringing with them into these interactions their expectations that the experience they have with thesalespeople is frictionless, because that's what they're experiencing on the be to sea side, right. So when when you look at the sales organizations from your experiencethat you've worked with her, talk to how does that show up? Howdo you help the sales people understand that critical factor? that it people arebuying from people and you have to have that human, human connection. Yeah, how do you have you understand that? I think you know, one ofthe simple ways, that the most simple way, is to reach outand ask people what they think and and actually have a conversation. So,you know, I literally like to pick up the phone and actually, Iknow this is a new new concept, to pick up a phone and actuallycall somebody, but but but it actually like pick up the phone and actuallymaybe call five of your customers and say why are you kind of why aremy customer? What? What? What made you when endeared you to mymessage or my product or my service, and and and share that with meand now I'll send your messaging. Can become a little bit more clear sothat you're your your building in the right...

...things that are going to help addressquestions during that very sophisticated sales process, which which a be to be processis or, as again I call it an HDH process, even more sobecause because everyone has access to the customer. Now, anybody can pick up thephone, anyone can get on twitter, anyone can go on to facebook,anyone can go to social media, on Linkedin, on anywhere and actuallysee what people are talking about about your products, service or or in yourthe niche that you're in. And that wasn't the case over ten years ago. You weren't able to actually get on to social media see what people aresaying, which is why it made the the process even more sophisticated, becausenow then you're guessing even more so and or you're going to do focus groupsbehind one way mirrors with MM's and great food behind the the mirrors, andand so so now you know the focus group is the world and you cango go out there and start to create hd age experiences that will help yoursales, your human sales funnel close that much better. And so when you'vetalked to the companies, I mean it's a it's a shift, right,it is. I've seen it a lot of the clients that we work with. I see it. I see them struggle with that concept of, youknow, trying to understand an interaction from their customer or their buyers perspective.Right, I'm kind of curious just been your interactions with other companies? What'sbeen the largest challenge to get the you know, the Lightbulb to come onand then, more importantly, stay on because you can get you can seeit in their eyes when it oh yeah, I understand that, but then theimplementation of that is often a challenge. I'm just kind of curious what you'veseen out there as you as you've worked with and talk to these othercompanies. I think I think it's I think it's just a manner of mostpeople are not, maybe not clinically clinically diagnosed as add but I but Ido think most cut most people or marketers or business owners are operate under thelet's just do it and see how it goes, which is a great wayto be. But then, you know, learn from that and plan it out. I think you know, again, putting the right plan in place andhaving the right messaging. If you just do those two things, you'regoing to you're going to probably shoot past your competitor, because most people don'ttake time to message themselves correctly and build a messaging ladder or tree so thatmaybe everyone else within your company or everyone else that's going to sell your servicesaround you or help you sell, maybe your partners or whoever it is,you know, they know and have those that information to be able to tospeak as though they were you and they are in your head and and beable to carry that message through all of your marketing touch points. And then, you know, the second thing is is, as I said, isjust really building building out the plan for where those human touch points are goingto be. You know, well, the plan, the plan overall interms of everything that's going to be included...

...in how your sales process, youknow, goes through, whether it's a fun or an in person process orboth. But but at what points are you going to in inject yourself intothat so that you're giving them a way to connect with you? Let's talkabout your books. I mean there's there. We talked about the one of thebeginning that, you know, went out in four days. Think Iunderstand this, but I'd love for you to explain to our aren't how doyou get the creative spark? Where does it come from to continually keep evolvingthat ht age perspective and put the books out? We where did that creativityand that spark come from for these books? Ht Age came out three years agoand then share Al g followed shere. AL G was supposed to be myfirst book. It's the book I was working on, and then ittook a back seat and I because H H was a surprise baby. SoI worked on that and then, and then I went back and wrote share, I'll share Ald, which made you even better sense, because it's howsharing powers the human economy. And it actually felt way. It felt waybetter and in line with that. And and so the the the spark reallybecame the the HH that one time on stage when I was standing there andand said what I said and having it go viral made it made everything elsemove forward. That was the that was a spark. And then HH wenton to sell, I think it's somewhere around Fifteenzo books. And then fromthat I launched share all g a year later, and and that ended upSally, I think, somewhere around twenty nine thousand books with with now twolanguages, in Russian and Chinese. Wow. So hh was the one that cameout as a result of of the the Bloomberg Talk. Yes, AH, H came out as a result of that talk. It was it wasactually we actually wrote it one week after that talk, and so, asit been updated recently, the reason ask because I had boarded them both offAmazon and and it, I swear, I swear, it told me thatHDH was just came out this February and I'm curious. was here an update? Maybe we need to maybe a need another copy? No, no,but it was. We did have an issue on Amazon. It sold outand so we had to go back in and then re update Amazon so thatyou could be looking at you could have been looking at Amazon when it wentit. It was. It was out actually, I think, for amonth and I was trying to feel that everybody's it was a good problem tohave, right. We're trying to we're trying to feel that everybody's challenge,and so we had to go back in and we had some some technical issues. We had to reset everything up and get it all situated on Amazon.So that could be the reason that you're you were seeing it as a asa new book. Okay, Gotcha. And so with those books, whatare you most proud of in terms of the impact of those books? Ohmy God, that's like that's like saying how how are you most proud ofyour your your son or your daughter in...

...every way? Okay, so Ithink you know. Well, both books different. Are Different. For me, I spent, you know, way more time. I spent a wholeyear doing research for share AL G and so the the research of and andthe interviews I did with over two hundred and fifty people from all walks oflife, answering the single question of why people share and boiling it down toa very specific set of things that they could do to help things go youknow, do things like go viral or share something that that that really,you know, reaches the right audience. So that was that was really excitingfor me was just the research that went in that book. From an Hperspective, I think I would say it just created, you know, themovement that it created was was the biggest thing for me, and it was. It was, you know, I was able to really and humble tospeak around the world and and I spoken well over fifteen countries, meeting allthese great people and and just like seeing them, you know, when they'dwalk up and say, Oh h H whereas it I can't even believe this. It's, you know, exactly what we needed. And I'm like,it's always been that way. We you know, we've always had people comingup and selling selling us think, think back to the door to door salesmanwho sold you a vacuum or delivered your milk back in the day. Andthat's true. Hjh right, right, and and so the reason I thinkit resonate more now than ever is because we're starting to depart from that levelof HH and and I think that that's it's becoming cyclical. It's it's likebell bottoms are back. We really we really want to connect with other peopleand and that is the biggest driver for why we share. So that knowingthat, then, I think makes it even more more needed now more thanever. It's kind of like looking at your direct mail, you know,wet back when we used to get actual mail in the mailbox and you'd belike so overwhelmed with the amount of mail that was coming in. And nowif you get a thank you letter written out your it's like it's like agolden like Oh my God, somebody wrote me a letter, you know.And and the same thing happens now with with digital like, Oh my God, someone actually wrote me an email. It wasn't automated, it wasn't youknow, or they did a video just to me, like these little thingsare the things that make you stand out, and that's why I think H His so important. Even if you've been in sales for decades, newtechnology, new buyers and new dynamics create challenges your team may not be readyfor. Value Prime solutions enables you to focus on sales, on the prospectsand customers, not the noise, and the sales framework you implement with themis simple, scalable and proven. CHECK OUT VALUE PRIME SOLUTIONSCOM and ask howthey can help you beat your target. So we mentioned the Ted talk earlier, where you know you came to that realization. You had to have thepainful conversation with your wife. It sounds...

...like that was, while a painfulconversation, it sounds like you're definitely where you want to be and things aregoing great. Is that a fair assessment? Yes, absolutely. I still alot, a lot more I want to accomplished, but I'm really excitedabout where I'm at. And so I have to ask. When I wasdoing my research before for the ever you, I notice you interview Ted Turner.What what was what was that like? Oh Man, it was the mostexcruciating experience of my life. He did in he looked pretty grumpy inthe video I got. Yeah, you watched it? Okay, so well, so, first and foremost, he is. He really was actually aspleasant, as more pleasant than I thought he would be it because he reallyis kind of known for being a little more grumpy, like you saw,and he's also known for walking off set. He won't stay on camera for longerthan about three to five minutes, and I knew both those things goinginto it. I was there to interview him for a humanitarian award that hereceived and and when I told him that I was a Rotarian, which you'llwhich if you watched it, then you'll you'll you'll remember that there it wasright in the middle. So once I told him I was a Rotarian,it was like we're best friends and he was just totally in the everything thatwe're talking about. We ended up going for seventeen minutes or nineteen minutes,I can't remember. And and afterwards, his son was actually one of thevideo videographers, and afterwards when he left, and he did walk off, bythe way, so he eventually did just stand up and walk away.So I was like, Oh, okay, he there it is, but butbut he, he, he, really, he, really he.If I realize that, if, if, if I got him to talk aboutor if we were able to talk about anything on the humanitarian side,then he was very comfortable talking about that and I was gonna have a muchmore successful interview if we talked about anything around CNN. That was not apassion point of his because of how things ended for him. So I stayedfar away from CNN and and it turned out to be a good, good, good thing, because most everybody asks him about CNN because they want toknow about it and I think there's so much more to him and what he'sdone in the world that that it wasn't needed. Excellent. All right,so we mentioned it. He mentioned the agency Puer matter a little bit ago. Let's pivot a little bit here. Can you give our own it's justan overview of what pure matter does and how you guys work with clients?Yeah, so, well, we have three different companies. We have peermatter, which is a consultancy. It's a marketing consultancy and and that wework with clients. Were kind of like they're virtual outsourced CMO, and wework with both clients and individuals and we, I'll coach individuals and help them withtheir personal brand or their becoming an influencer on some some perspective. Ihave CMOS and VP's of marketing and and and and entrepreneur CEOS, smaller busesof CEOS, and they each want to build their their personal brand on,you know, all different levels, whether it's getting out on speaking or it's, you know, building towards a potential...

Ted x talk or Ted Talk,or or they want to write a book or they want to get out thereand do those kinds of things that we do. That or peer matter alsoprovides. We also are outsourced, like as a CMO. So we'll goin and actually do the planning for that whole road map that I was talkingabout. How do you build your entire Marketing Road Map? And then what'sthe will build in all those little h you know, hh touch points andand figure the whole thing out. For a company it's kind of get donefor you, you know road map. And so there's that. And thenwe have h age companies, which which has a shage university. We offercourses and we have courses on what's coming out in five weeks. I mentionedthe human sales funnel, where we'll teach people to actually build those road mapsand actually walk them through the technology and how to set up the you know, even a Bot and and do all these different things. And then wehave Hg club, which is where it's a membership site and people can enjoinand and and learn all these things as a as kind of like your outsourcedCMO on demand. So you can just go into the club and ask anyquestions you want. And then we have master classes every month from awesome peopleor teaching how how to do facebook ads and how to do all kinds ofreally cool things. And then the last thing I do is I just II have my own business which is called it's very creative, right. It'scalled Brian Qu Hmer and and and that's that's really focused on my speaking andwriting career. So everything that I do in any time I get on astage, it's put into that category. So No, you know, nolack of things to do. It sounds like. Oh, and I havetwo kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's it's all my times dividedin the thirds. That way. Excellent. So when you think aboutall those businesses and and you have to as a business owner, you've gotto think you know, strategically. I mean it sounds like the diversification ofthe companies has kind of happened organically almost, but when you look at, youknow, your businesses right now, what would you say your top strategicbusiness objective is? What is my top strategic business objective? It is toit is to teach people that eat while the robots are coming, that thehumans have a place and we can, we can, we can coexist.And I'm, I'm, I'm I know it sounds funny, but I'm actuallynot, not totally kidding, because I do believe that as people automate moreand more all these different things, the more we're going to have to learnnew skill sets and if you're not out there learning new skill sets, thenyou probably are going to have your job being jeopardy. Not to be likethe total Downer on this whole thing, but you know, there is alot that can be automated and will be continuing to be automated, and themore that we can learn skill sets that allow us to stay relevant, thebetter that that the more solid your career...

...is going to be. And soI feel like my job is to help teach people how to stay relevant.Yeah, I interviewed Justin Williams. He's a CEO of one of the companiesgoing after the IBM WATSON AI x prize. I toub we've talked to him lastweek. I think that for people that are listening, I think thatepisod comes out next week. But we were talking about the progression of AIand the augmentation. Like I said earlier, I think it's it shows up moreeffectively marketing because it's there's so much data. But on the sales side, we were talking about is is Elon right? Are we all headed for, you know, doom? Or what are the salespeople you know that adoptthe technology, that learned those new skills that you talked about? What doesthat look like in the future? Is a fabulous conversation. Really enjoyed talkingto him about it and I think you're right. I think you know,if you stay on top of it, you continue to learn the skills andnever lose sight of that ht age, I think those are going to bethe people that are going to be in the best place for success in thefuture. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we IBM was our is our clientand we did all the the we did the first global influencer program for forWatson for for several years and then and and it was very powerful and itreally got everyone to experience what Watson was like. We had thirty influencers insideof Watson, using it and then creating content out of that to help showexactly what it was that you're talking about in terms of how you can usethis data to make decisions. But the decisions that need to be made,those are the human that's the hue that, that's where humans come in, andand so so. So really it is humans and machines working together todo this stuff and I don't think that that's ever going I don't think it'sgoing to change. I don't think the robots are kind of going to takeover. I don't think that we're going we're in jeopardy of that. Ifanything, I would just say the biggest question is are we're going to bechipped or not as humans, but that's a that's a that's a that's awhole different podcast, but I think, I think that that's really an importantthing that you just brought up, is how is data going to be usedwith ai and but who is making those decisions once we have once we havethe information, and so there you know, there's there's input and there's output.You have to ask a machine a question in order for it to delivera result. The question always has to come from a human because if youdon't know what question to ask, it won't do anything. You have tosay I want you to go out and do this. If you don't askit that question, there is no response. So we, as humans, werebuilding these questions and then we're interpreting the data on the other end.That's our role, that will be our role. So if you don't knowhow to ask the right question of it, you don't know how to interpret thedata out of it. That's the skill sets that need to be learned. Yeah, and I think I mean I think you hit on a reallyvalid point there, the questioning aspect of that. We spend a lot oftime with our clients helping them understand how to ask better questions, and Ithink I've seen more now. I was an English major as an Undergrad,so I've spent a lot of time writing...

...and reading questions, but I seeit as more of a skill set that definitely needs to be developed. Areyou asking the right types of questions well thought out, you know, kindof that for thought. You talked about having that plan. So it's easywhen you're talking to a human being just kind of wing it, like we'redoing now, just kind of having a conversation, but when you're interfacing withsomething like Ai, you really need to be careful the questions you're asking soyou get the right answers. Absolutely, absolutely. That goes for everything inlife, right. Yeah, I've asked some extremely dumb questions in my parentsall those here. Those are human moments too. Oh Yeah, yeah,painfully human. That's when it's painfully I actually have a term for that.I have a whole key note that I give on it's called how to embraceyour inner Fokker, fock, by the way, I focke are and andit's it's based on Gay Lord Fokker from meet the parents and how how basic, basically dumb and the dumb things he does through those movies. But atthe same time we can't help but love him and embrace everything he does andwe side with him and just want the best for him and and and Ijust think he's the ultimate human for for what he does. And so Ithink there's a lot to that. Actually, when you have like when my dogmarks in the background, you're like, Oh crap, but no, reallyit's a good thing because you know we're not perfect. This is notwhat humanity is about. Well, and that's one of the things I tellall our guests. Look, I'm not looking, there are some podcasts outthere or big production companies getting into doing podcast and we look, we investin in the equipment for the sound quality and we want the experience for ourguests to be good. But I specifically say in the email there's no suchthing as perfect. I've had, you know, the ups Guy Inevitably isgoing to ring the right here in the middle of an interview with somebody,and also the DOORBELLG is off or truck right. Let mean, it's just, it's just the way it is. Right. You have to put embracethat. Embrace that. All right. So getting towards the end here gotlast question. We call it our acceleration insight. So if there was onething you could tell sales, marketing professional services people, one piece of adviceyou give them that will help them hit their targets be more successful, whatwould it be? M Why? One piece of advice that I would givethem that would help them hit their targets. You know, I think I wouldprobably I would say. I would say understanding your audience better. Solet's just take let's take facebook ads, for example. There's there's there's unlimitedcome combinations of people that ways that you can dissect audiences on facebook. Andif you're going to set audiences up and figure out, figure out through abe testing which audience works, that's one way to do it. But butthe the other way is to actually, like I said before, actually askyour existing audience or existing customers, why...

...did they buy from you and startto break that down first and then and then drill. And I would combinethat with you know, what you know. Kind of think of this as theMaster Card circles, right. There's one circle that's the what you know, and then there's the other circle of the research and data that's out there. And there's so much research and data that's out there that if you cancombine the best of what's out there using tools like Watson, and there isa free version of Watson that you can go in and actually upload your dataand it will break it down for you. You could take your email list andupload it into facebook and it's going to break down all the psychographic anddemographic information about your email list in facebook and it's going to pull data fromnine different sources and tell you exactly what their interests are and what their likesare and what they where they shop and all this great stuff. Don't worry, it's not going to call you out by name. This is it,but it, but it will give you the general idea behind your audience.Now, if you can match what your existing audience is doing, combined withwhat you already know from using data, combined with what you already know fromyour existing customers, and then now you create your audience in a face youknow, in facebook ads or in whatever it is that you're going to do. Man, you're going to you're going to save yourself so much time andmoney. Perfect, perfect, Brian. If for listeners interested in talking moreabout topics we've touched on today, what's the best way to get in contactwith you? Email me and I will reply back, and then you'll replyback and then I'll reply back again and we will have a conversation from onehuman to another. That is the best way to do it. Brian,B our Y A N at Brian B our why a and Kramer Kra amercom. So Brian and Brian kramercom. There's a Y in, a Kin there and and then will email each other at were you can. Ifyou just want to check me out, you don't want to have a conversationyet. I totally get it. Go to Brian kramercom and that's that's anothergood way, or at Brian Kramer on any social channel. Perfect, perfectbrand. I can't thank you enough for taking the time today. It's beenabsolutely great having it on the show. Thank you so much. That's beengreat. I love your questions. Thanks all right, everybody that does itfor this episode. Please check us out at be tob REV exactcom. Sharethe episode with friends, families, Co workers, anybody that you think we'llget value from it. If you if you like what you here, pleasedrop us a review on itunes. We use those that feedback to make surewe're bring the right guess on for you guys, so you continue to keepcoming back again. Thanks everybody for being here and until next time we havevalue prime solutions. Wish you all nothing but the greatest success. You've beenlistening to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player.Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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