The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Bryan Kramer on Why the Future of Sales and Marketing Belongs to Humans—Not Robots

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Lately, we’ve spent a lot of time talking to people about the future of AI.

Today, we want to take a look at the other side of the coin: human to human interactions. At this point, you’ve probably heard the abbreviation “H2H,” made popular by a viral photo involving Bryan Kramer.

In this episode, Bryan talks about how the idea came to him, why he wrote his books Human to Human and Shareology, and what happened that one time he interviewed Ted Turner.

Find a breakdown of this episode here.

Today, on the btob revenue executiveexperience, we're talking with Brian Creamer, author of human to human andCharology, about what human to human connections really mean in today'smarketing and sales environment, yre listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast, dedicated Eli executives train theirsales and workting teams to optimize growth, whether you're looking fortechniques and strategies for tools and resources that youv come to the rightplace. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: Welcome everyone! I'myour host Chat Sanderson. Today we're going to be talking about human tohuman connections and the way that they're impacting the sales andmarketing profession to do that. We're lucky enough to have Brian Cramer withus he's the author of human to human. He was also the author of a book calledCherology and and for all of those people that saw the the image that wentviral on twitter and all the other social media out. There was the onegiving the Kino speech at Bloomberg when the slide came up. That said threeyears ago, there is no such thing as btoce or be to be. It is only age to hand today, with the rise of Ai Automatian, machine learning, sales andMARKETN are being drastically imbacted and we spent some time talking to otherpeople in the field of artificial intelligence, and today we wanted totake it back to the other side of the coin, really the human to humaninteractions and what what Dhoese mean, how to do them effectively and howthey're impacting these professions. So without further ado, let's jump intothe interview with Brian Welcome to to show Brian want to say. Thank you verymuch for taking the time and then welcome you today. Thank you so much sobefore we jump in we kind of have the standard thing where we ask kind of anoffthe, the walk question o the beginning, kive our audience a littlebit more insight into. He was a person we like to look back at your entirecareer, your life, we're looking for a defining moment, something thathappened in your life. That taught you a lesson that you go back to maybechange its Rajectory of your career, your life. You know what was that eventand what was the lesson you took away from it yeah. You know it's funny. I addressthis exact same question on a on my ted talk was was was around the the onemoment I will never forget actually was about four and a half years ago, when Iowned a and still own a a company called pure matter with M mypartner and wife, and I went to her and said you know I delegated everythingout. We have an awesome team, everyone's doing great work, we'remaking great money, and I don't like it, I'm not having fun and I don't feellike I'm contributing and I feel like. Maybe I need to do something else, andthat was not a pleasant conversation, but it was one that I had that I neededto have, and we figured out that you know that, even even though your youmay be doing well or in the eyes of others at least doing well and doingwell also inside of your own company or...

...maybe you're not doing well. It appliesto both and that's that you have to love what you do and and from thatpoint forward, I set out to figure out what I really wanted to do. When I,when I grew up again and- and I did, I found out that I really really enjoyed bi, creating content and speaking andgetting out and meeting people and teaching and educating and- and I gotaway from all that- and so I had this great knowledge from the seventeenyears of owning a great agency. But I wasn't really helping anyone with it.And so I started to interview executives at that. Huge companies likeCisco and Sales Force and IBM, and I mean the CMOS and Cos of allthese wonderful companies and they weren't saying no to the interviews,which was awesome, but we were even better was that I was learning fromthem. While I was sitting there and interviewing them on video and we W, Iwas getting to meet the them, I was getting Ato, learn from them and theneven better it was being videoed. So then I got to put it out and help otherpeople learn, and so I felt like this was where I belonged and now I feellike I was contributing back to our agency in a great way and I wasfulfilled in my own career, excellent excellenly. I do definitely have tolove what you do and I saw that Ted talk. It was a great talk by the way,but I'm curious. You know, I think. Probably if we go back, I mean hth. Youhear a lot of that today, but when I look back the first one of the firsttimes, I think I heard it might have actually been in your Ted talk and I'mkind of curious. If you C L just give the audience kind of a a betterunderstanding, your background and how that Hg concept kind of formulated andbecame a passion for you yeah it was. It was something that I'dbeen talking about for years. We we were talking about how how how every business needs to be ashuman as possible and how we try to automate so much, and this definitionis changed over the years. You know based upon where we're at right nowit's artificial intelligence and machine learning and and and andvirtual reality and augmented reality, and all of these things are pulling usaway from those human moments. And so I really am a huge cheerleader for thehumans and I believe the humans will will fin, and I believe that you know it's, how webuild connections and how we, how we actually trust companies more and howwhy we want to buy from their services. As because of a connection with accumonon the other end and wh t w a that's, what sustain US sustains customer forlife, and so so so I was I've. Been I've beentalking about that for years, iwould started building my Branda, as I justmentioned, in terms of interviewing lots of people, and then one day I gavea keynote at Bloomberg and on the screen was there's no body to be or Bto see it's human, human, Hage and and everyone kind of lifted, their camerasor their phones. I mean, and they start tweeting a picture of that out. Aso andit went viral weve got over eighty...

...million impressions in forty eighthours it had over fifteen languages that we could count translated and wellover two thousand bloggers blogging about it somewhere on the Internet and-and so we quickly pulled Ha book together of all the things that I'dwritten in blogs, oe from the previous two years and selfpublished it in fourdays to get a response out to everybody. That was saying what is this? What doesthis mean for where we're out today, and how do I cumanize my company, andso we did that that became a best seller and it really just kind of likewent from there. I mean it just grew to the point where again I you know got todo a ten talk and speak all over the world, and it was just. It was just areally awesome thing that kind of happened to me, but at the same time Ihelped to create this thing that I didn't even know was going to happen. EAHTHAT I mean that's a that's a greatstory. I've seen that picture, and it's amazing. You know four days topull all that content together to put a book out. That's that's a prettyimpressive feat. I mean that. Well I easy I never ever ever would have beenable to do that if I hadn't been writing about it for two two years, soI mean the point point being is: If you blogd I'll dive logged once a week,never never stopped and really enjoyed it and found. You know found a lot ofgood reasons to do it, but I never realized that it was going to beactually end up in a book. So so it was kind of kind of kind of a cool lessonthan you can just take everything that you've written and and build aselfpublish a book. That's what I did. I I sell published a book and put itout there. I obviously you know, edited the content, so that made more sense inin his totality, but but I had something to work with a there's no way.I could have done that and that about time, if I didn't write before exent.So when you have a contept like human human, it's a big one. Obviously theresponse that you got when that started to go viral people wanted to know moreabout it right. It is a. It seems to me to be a lens right. It's a almost! It'salmost like a basic change. The way you look at the world now for me, but witha career in sales that concept that people buy from people right, that'ssomething that we've know. We talk about a lot, but I'm curious when welook at you know if you take that as a lens and you look at marketing, how do you apply it right? F If ghTaghes your perspective, Your Lens? How does that impact choosing the rightmarketing approach, the right content, the right messaging and distribution?What is that Gind tof help us look through that lens and understand that alittle better yeah, it's kind of you- know everyone's trying to automate somuch and and and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think where peoplelose out is when they don't put the right human touchpoints inside of theirautomation and that's what H chagees all about it's about: building arelationship between two or more people, and when you don't build thatrelationship, you distance yourself from the customer. So so there is somelevel of and there's a lot of tools in a lot of ways. You could do that and Idon't think we have enough time to go...

...into like the technical details Obouithat hear but there, but but it is the the overarching message there is thatit does need to happen if you want to stand out because there's so muchcontent out there and there's so many automations and there's so much likeyou know the proverbial mal coming at us, but now it's email and and and soso all of that all of that stuff is so important. But it's even more importantthat you stand out from every other email. That's out there, and the onlyway to do that really is is two things one. Your message has to be has toresonate with ther audience most. You know a lot of times. People don't dothat or they don't humanize their content to really talk to theiraudience start talking with their audience and to is just to build arelationship over time, whether it's er storytelling or even connecting as ahuman nd. So ' when we were preperied for the interview you mentioned,creating a funnel of human touchpoints, can you just kind of give us? Maybemaybe it's an abstract and, and I your right I would love. I would love to gointo all the technical details of how that works. Mac Sur Tha would keep allthe audience around all day, but in terms of the funnel with humantouchpoints, help fillistrate that a little better yeah yeah, I you know like let'. Let's just take oneexample of a chatbot there's, there's there's a whole lineup,probably I don't know Tean thirty forty different ways, depending on what kindof funnel you're building and what kind of company you are. I, which is why Ineed such a big range, but but the the the idea is that y you're, giving awayto there's no way that you can scale relationships, there's no way that youcan, if you're, just one person or you're just ten sales people at acompany depending Pon, the Sizor company scaling is really hard and ifyou put yourself out there and all these people are coming back and saying,how do I sell? How do I get in touch with someone and you can't you don'thave literally tdemandpower the women power to do that. Then it then, thenthat has to be automated, but but wh t. If you can start to learn exactly thetouchpoints where you know, maybe people drop off, maybe they they areconverting in a certain area or they're, not they're, not opting in or or maybe they went to your shopping cart fivetimes, but they didn't convers. Well, all these little things could bereasons to actually then reach out and skit and be able to actually scale moreof a human touchpoint. So again going back to a CHATBOB. If you I do, I dowish that the name wasn't bought because it really screws up what a chatbot can could could help youwith most people are just automating the heck out of it, and I think that'swrong, but but there is a certain level of automation where you can onboardpeople and let them know who you are and then like for my Chat Bot. If yougo to my facebook page of Brian Creamer,...

...and you just message me: Youl you'llget, you know, sequence of of messages over the course of seven days.That will give you an idea as to who I am and any point you can say, talk tohuman, and it will immediately put you in touch with me and so that allows meto actually talk to people about some serious questions or even one of thepoints of one of those sequences and t. At that point, I can start to evenmessage out to everybody at once and answer questions from people or get toknow them, and at that point you can then even move them from there to emailwhere, again, a whole nother sequence of human touch points could begin. Sothis is pretty endless in terms of what you can do in the types of tools youcan use. You know, there's video, there's, there's there's ways ofactually connecting through Messenger and ads. There's all kinds of thingsthat you can do to humanize. Almost everything that you do you just have tobe. We have to be able to plan right for that and actually I'm building acourse right now called the human sales funnel that help outlines and helps todo that. But I know that doesn't help your audience,but it's it's. Certainly it's certainly something that if you take anythingaway from anything that I just said it's you have to map it out ahead oftime. You have to you have to say: okay, here are the five ways: Five thingsthat you can do to do that. Sorry, I'm having a human moment right now with mydogthts totally fine, so you mentioned sales right. So we hear a lot,especially as you know, ai machine learning. All the automation stuff thatyou mentione on the marketing side is impacting sales and from the marketingside. It always seemed to me that the datas there it's much more of a datadriven type of interaction, so it kind of lends itself forver, AI and thattype of stuff to show up there. But in a BTOB, complex sales environment, thebuyers are getting much more complex, right and they're, bringing with theminto these interactions, their expecations that the experience theyhave with the sales people is frictionless, because that's whatthey're experiencing on the btcside right. So when, when you look at thesales organizations from your experience that you've worked with ortalk to, how does that show up? How do you help the sales people understandthat critical fact that it people are buying from people, and you have tohave that human human connection? Yeah? How do you Havpo? You understandthat? I think you know one one of the simple ways that the most simple way isto reach out and ask people what they think and and actually have aconversation. So you know, I literally like to pick up the phone and actuallyI know this is a new new concept to pick up a phone and actually callsomebody but but but to actually like pick up the phone and actually maybecall five of your customers and say: Why are you can fire my customer? Whatwhat? What made you and endeared you to my message or my product or my serviceand and share that with me and now, all o sudden, your messaging can become alittle bit more clear so that you're youre you're building in the rightthings that are going to help address...

...questions during that very sophisticated sales process, whichwhich B to be process is or as again I call it an HH process even more sobecause because everyone has access to the customer now anybody can pick upthe phone anyone can get on twitter. Anyone can go on Te, facebook. Anyonecan go to social media. I linked in on anywhere and actually see what peopleare talking about about your product service or or in the Nich that you'rein and that wasn't the case. Over ten years ago you weren't able to actuallyget on to Social Media Cey what people are saying, which is why it made theprocess even more sophisticated, because now then you're guessing evenmore so n or you were going to do focus groups behind one way, merrs with mnmsand free food behind the the mirrors, and so so now you know the the focusgroup is the world and you can go, go out there and start to create hhexperiences that will help your sales F, youryour human sales, funnal close thatmuch better, and so, when you've talked to thecompanies, I mean it's a it's a shift right. It is I've, seen it a lot of theclients that we work with. I see it. I see them struggle with that concept ofyou know, trying to understand an interaction from their customer ortheir buyers perspective right. I'm kind of curious just been yourinteractions with other companies. What's been the largest challenge toget the you know, the light bulb to come on and the more importantly stayon right, because you can get you can see it in their eyes when it Goh yeah.I understand that, but then the implementation of that is often a challenge. I'm just kind ofcurious. What you've seen out there as as you've worked with and talk to theseother companies. I think I think it's Ome. I think it's just a manner of most people are not maybenot clinically clinically diagnosed as atd, but but Ido think most most people or marketers or business owners re operate under thelet's just do it and see how it goes, which is a great way to be, but thenyou know learn from that and plan it out. I think you know again putting theright plan in place and having the right messaging. If you just do thosetwo things, you're going to you're going to probably shoot past yourcompetitor, because most people don't take time to message themselvescorrectly and build a messaging ladder or tree so that maybe everyone elsewithin your company or everyone else, that's going to sell your servicesaround you or help youself. Maybe your partners or whoever it is. You knowthey know and have those that information to be able to to speak asthough they were you and they're in your head and be able to carry that messagethrough all of your marketing touchpoints. And then you know, thesecond thing is is, as I said, is just really buildingbuilding out the plan for where those human touchpoints are going to be. You know well the plan, the plan overall in terms ofeverything that's going to be included...

...and how your sales process F, you know,goes through whether it's a fun or in person process for both. But but whatpoints are you going to and inject yourself into that so that you'regiving them a way to connect with you? Let's talk about your books, I meanthere was there. We talked about the one in the beginning that you know wentout in four days. I think I understand this, but I'd love working for you toexplain to ourant. How do you get the creative spark? Where does it come fromto continually keep evolving that Hage perspective and put the books outwerewhere? Where did that creativity and that spark come from for thesebooks? Hge came out three years ago and then Sharal g followed. SHERALG wassupposed to be my first book, it's the Book I was working on and then it tooka back seat and I because hh was a surprise baby. So I I worked on thatand then and then I went back and wrote, share all Sharolgy, which made you evenbetter sense, because it's how sharing powers, the human economy and itactually felt way it felt way better in line with that and and so the the the spark reallybecame the the HH that one time on stage when I was standing there and andsaid what I said and having it go viral made, it made everything else movedforw. That was the that was a spark and then hh went on to sell, I think 'somewhere around fifteenzend books andthen from that I want Cherology a year later and and that ended up sally. I think somewhere, ound twentyninesand books with with now two languages, an Russian andChinese wow. So hh was the one that came out as a result of of the theBloomberg Talk. Yes, HH came out as a result of thattalk, it was, it was actually we actually wrote it one week after thattalk and so as it been updated, rece. The reason ask because I boarded enboth off Amazon and- and I swea I swear it- told me that Hhe was just came outthis February and I'm curious was ere an update. Maybe we needed maybe needanother copy. No, no, but it was. We did have anissue on Amazon as sold out, and so we had to go back and and then reupdateAmazon, so that you could be looking. You could have been looking at Amazonwhen it when it it was. It was out. Actually, I think, for a month, and Iwas trying to field everybody's it as a good problem to have right we're tryingto we're trying to feel t everybody's challenge, and so we had to go back inand we had some some technical issues. We had to reset everything up and getit all situated on Mamazon. So that could be the reason that you're, youwere seeing it as a newbook, okay, Gotcha and so with those books. Whatwhat are you most proud of in terms of the impact of those books? Oh, my God, that's like that's like saying how areyou most proud of? U,...

...your son or your daughter in every way? Okay, so I think you know well both booksdifferent are different for me. I spent you know way more time. I spenta whole year doing research for Sharalgi, and so the the research ofand the interviews I did with over two hundred and fifty people from all wasksof life. Answering the single question of why people share and boiling it downto a very specific set of things that they could do to help things go. Youknow, do things like go viral or share something that that that really, youknow reaches the right audience, so that was that was really exciting. Forme was just the research that went in that book from an HH Perspective. Ithink I would say it just created. You know the movement that it created waswas the biggest thing for me n it was it was. You know I was able to reallyand humble to speak around the world and and ha spoken well over fifteencountries, meeting all these great people and and just like seeing themwit. You know when they walk up and say: Oh Ah Chage. Where is it? I can't evenbelieve this. It's you know exactly what we needed and I'm like.It's always been that way. You know, we've always had people coming up andselling selling us think think back to the Dorte door salesman who sold you avacuum or delivered your milk back in the day and that's true Hj h, right proan and so the reason I think it resonate more now than ever is becausewe're starting to depart from that level of Hhn, and I think that that's it's becoming cyclical. It's like bell bottoms are back. We wereally. We really want to connect with other people and- and that is thebiggest driver for why we share so that knowing that, then, I think makesit even more more needed. Now, more than ever, it's kind of like looking atyour directed male, you know wet back when we used to get actual mail in themailbox and you would be like so overwhelmed with the amount of malethat was coming in and now, if you get a thank you letter written out, Youre,it's like it's like a golden like, oh, my God, somebody wrote the a letter,you know and, and the same thing happens now with with digital, like Oh,my God, someone actually wrote me an email, it wasn't automated, it wasn't,you know, o they did a video. Just to me like these little things are thingsthat make you stand out and that's why I think aae is so important. Even ifyou've been in sales for decades, new technology, new buyers and new dynamicscreate challenges. Your team may not be ready for value. Prime solutionsenables you to focus on sales, on the prospects and customers, not the noiseand the sales framework you implement with them is simple: scalable amdprovencheck out value Prime Solutionscom and ask how they can help. You be yourtarget, so we mentioned the Ted talk earlier. Where Yo you know you came tothat realization. You had to have that painful conversation with your wife. Itsounds like that was while a painful...

...conversation. It sounds like you're.Definitely where you want to be, and things are going great. Is that a fairassessment? Yes, absolutely. I still lot a lot more.I want to accomplish, but I'm really excited about where I'm at, and so Ihave to ask when I was do my research before for the ever. I noticed youinterviewed Ted Turner. What what was? What was that, like? Oh Man, it was themost excruciating experience in my life. He did e Lookd, pretty gropy in thevideo I got yeah you watched it, okay, so Wellso, first and foremost he is. Hereally was actually as pleasant as more pleasant than I thought he would be because he really is kind of known for being a little more grumpy like you sawand he's also known for walking off set. He won't stay on camera for longer thanabout three to five minutes and I knew both those things going into it. I wasthere to interview him for a humanitarian award that he received andand when I told him that I was a rotarian which you'll, which, if youwatched it, then you'l Yeldyoull, remember that and Theit as right in themiddle. So once I told him, I was a Rotarian, it was like we were bestfriends and he was just totally into everythingthat weere talking about. We ended up going for seventeen minutes or nineteen minutes Ican't remember, and and afterwards his son was actually one of the videovideographers and afterwards when he left and he did walk off by the way. So heeventually did just stand up and walk away. So I was like Oh okay, there. Itis but butbut he really. He really he. I realized that if I, if I got him to talk about her, if wewere able to talk about anything on the humanitarian side than he was verycomfortable talking about that- and I was gonna- have a much more successfulinterview. If we talked about anything around CNN, that was not a passionpoint of his because of how things ended for him, so I stayed far awayfrom CNN and, and it turned out to be a good good good thing, because mosteverybody asked him about CNN because they want to know about it, and I thinkthere's so much more to him and what he's done in the world that that itwasn't needed. Excellent all right, so we mentioned it. You mentioned theagency peer matter a little bit of go. Let's Piv it a little bit here. Can yougive our audience just an overview of what Pur matter does and and how youguys work with clients yeah so well. We have three differentcompanies. We have pure matter, which is a consultancy, it's a marketing,consultancy and and that we work with clients were kind of like their virtualoutsource CMO and we work with both clients and h individuals and Wei'llcoach individuals and help them with their personal brand or their becomingan influencor. On some some perspective, I have CMOS An and dpz of marketing andand and and entreprener CEOS smaller business os and they each want to buildr. Their personal brand on you know all different levels, whetherit's getting on speaking or it's. You...

...know, building towards a potentialtedex talk or Tedtolk or or they want to write a book or they want to get outthere and do those kinds of things, and we do that. An the war per matter alsoprovides. We also are outsourced like as a CM, so will go in and actually dothe planning for that whole roadmap that I was talking about. How do youbuild your entire marketing roadmap and then, what's the will build in allthose little h? You know hh touch points and and figured the whole thingout for a company. It's kind of got done for you. You know roadmap and sothere's that and then we have HH companies which which has Ah University,we offer courses and we have courses on what's coming out in five weeks. Imentioned the human sales funnel where well teach people to actually buildthose road maps and actually walk them through the technology and how to setup the you know, even a Bot and and do all these different things and t. Wehave an Chage Club, which is where it's a membership site and people can enjoinand and learn all these things it as a as kind of like your outsource CMO ondemand. So you can just go into the club and ask any questions you want,and then we have master classes every month from bawsome people or teachinghow how to do facebook ads and how to do all kinds of really cool things. And then the last thing I do is I justI have my own business, which is called it's very creative right. It's calledBrian Cramer and- and that's that's really focused on myspeaking and writing career. So everything that I do in anytime I geton a stage it's put in that category. So now you know no lack of things to do.It sounds like Oh and I have two kids yeah yeah yeah, that's that's it's all my timesdivided in the thirds that way excellent. So when you think about allthose businesses and- and you have to as a business owner, you've got tothink you know strategically, I mean it sounds like the diversification of thecompanies has kind of happened organically almost. But when you lookat you know your businesses right now. What would you say your top strategicbusiness objective is what is my top strategic businessobjective it is to. It is to teach people that, while therobots are coming that the humans have a place and we can we can, we can coexist and Im I'm. I know it sounds funny, but I'm actually not not totally kidding,because I do believe that as people automate more and more of all thesedifferent things, the more we're going to have to learn new skill sets and ifyou're not out there learning new skillsets, then you probably are goingto have your job being jeopardy, not to be like the total Downer on this wholething. But you know there is a lot that can be automated and will be continuingto be automated in the Mor that we can learn. Skill sets that Allos to stayrelevant, the better that that the the...

...more solid your career is going to be,and so I feel like my job is to help teach people how to stay relevant yeah.I interviewed Justin Williams, he's a CEO of one of the companies going afterthe IBM Watson, Aix Prize I to we talke to him last week. I think that forpeople who are listening, I think that AF so comes out next week, but we weretalking about the progression of Ai and the augmentation like, like I saidearlier. I think it shows up more effectively marketing because it'sthere's so much data, but on the sales side we were talking about is Elon right.Are we all headed for you know doom or what are the sales people? You knowthat adopt the technology learn those new skills, like you talked about? U W.What does that? Look like in the future was a fabulous conversation, a reallyenjoyed talking to him about it, and I think you're right. I think you know ifyou stay on top of it, you continue to learn the skills and never lose sightof that aged age. I think those are going to be the people that are goingto be in the best place for success in the future. eahabsolutely. Actually weIBM Wasour is our client, and we did all the we did the first globalinfluenceor program for for Watson for several years and then and it wasvery powerful and it really got everyone to experience what Watson waslike. We had thirty influuncers inside o Wattson using it and then creatingcontent out of that to help show exactly what it was that you're talkingabout in terms of how you can use this data to make decisions, but thedecisions that need to be made. Those are the human, that's the h that that'swhere humans come in and and so so so really it is humans and and machinesworking together to do this stuff, and I don't think that that's ever going, Idon't think it's going to change. I don't think the robots are kind ofgoing to take over. I don't think that we're going were in jeopardy that, ifanything I would just say the biggest question is: Are we going to be chippedor not as humans? But that's a that's a that's. A that's a whole differentpodcast, but I think I think that that's really an important thing thatyou just brought up is how is data going to be used with ai and but who ismaking those decisions once we have once we have the information and sother's, you know, there's there's input and there's output. You have to askmachine a question in order for it to deliver a result. The question alwayshas to come from a human, because if you don't know what question to ask, itwon't do anything you have to say. I want you to go out and do this. If youdon't ask it that question, there is no response, so we as humans were building thesequestions and then we're interpreting the data on the other end, that's ourrole. That will be our role. So if you don't know how to ask the rightquestion of it, you don't know how to interpret the data out of it. That'sthe skill sets that need to be learned, yeah, and I think I mean I think youhit on a really valid point there, the questioning aspect of it. We spend alot of time with our clints helping them understand how to ask betterquestions, and I think I've seen more...

...now I was a English major as anUndergrad, so I've spent a lot of time, writing and reading questions, but Isee it is more of a skill set that definitely needs to be developed. Areyou asking the right types of questions? Well, thought out. You know kind ofthat forethought t at you talk about having that plan. So it's easy whenyou're talking to a human bing, you just kind of wing it like we're doingtnow we', just kind of having a conversation, but when you'reinterfacing with something like Ai, you really need to be careful to questionsyou're asking. So you get the right answers. Absolutely absolutely. That goes foreverything in life right Ye yeah. I've asked some extremely dumb questions inmy paent alt, all those those are human momentstoo. Oh yeah, ohy painfully human. That's when it's painful E. I actually have a term for that. I havea whole keynote that I give on. It's called how to embrace your innerfacker TAT ock by the way, vocker and and it's it's based on Gay, Lord Faker,from meet the parents and how how basic, basically dumb and the dumb things he does through thosemovies. But at the same time we can't help but love him and embraceeverything. He does and we side with him and just want the best for him, andI just think he's the ultimate human for for what he does. And so I think, there's a lot to that. Actually, whenyou have like when my dog barks in the background you're like Oh crap, but noreally it's a good thing, because you know we're not perfect. This is notwhat humanity's about well yeah and that's one of the things I tell all orguess, like I'm not looking. There are some podcast out there or bigproduction companies getting into doing podcast and we have look. We invest inin the equipment for the sound quality and we want the experience for ourguests to be good, but I I specifically say in the email: There's no such thingas perfect: I've had you know the ups Guy Inevitably is going to ring the toright. If you're, in the middle of an interview with somebody and all O od,the door bog is off or truck right, I mean it's just that's just the way. Itis right. You have to Holp oembrace that embrace that all right, so gettingtowards the end here got last question. We call it our acceleration insight. Soif there was one thing you could tell sales marketing professional services,people, one piece of advice you give them that will help them hit theirtargets, be more successful. What would it be? And why one piece of of advice that I wouldgive them that would help them hit their targets. You know I think I would probabl. I would say I would say understanding your audiencebetter. So, let's just take. Let's take facebook ads, for example, there's THR's, there's unlimited combinationsof people that ave ways that you can disect audiences on facebook and ifyou're going to set audiences up and figure out figure out through AB testing whichaudience works, that's one way to do it, but but the other way is to actuallylike, I said before,...

...actually ask your existing audience orexisting customers. Why did they buy from you and start to break that downfirst and then and then drill- and I would combine that with you know whatyou know. Kind of think of this is the mastercard circles right, there's onecircle that see what you know and then there's the other circle of the theresearch and data that's out there and there's so much research and data.That's out there that if you can combine the best of what's out thereusing tools like Watson and there is a free version of Watson that you can goin and actually upload your data and it will break it down for you. You couldtake your email list and upload it into facebook and it's going to break downall the psychographic and demographic information about your email list infacebook and it's going to pull data from nine different sources and tellyou exactly what their interests are and what their likes are and what they,where they shop and all this great stuff. Don't worry it's not going tocall you out my name. This is ful it, but but it'll give you w th the generalidea behind your audience. Now, if you can match what your existing audienceis doing, combined with what you already know from using data combined with what youalready know from your existing customers and then now you create youraudience in a face. You know in Facebook, guads or in whatever it isthat you're going to do man you're going to you're going to save yourselfso much time and money, perfect, perfect prine! If felisters interestedin talking more about the topics we touched on today, what's the best wayto get in contact with you, email me and I will repy back and thenYourl plyback and then I'll reply back again and we will have a conversationfrom one human to another. That is the best way to do it: Brian Bry, an atBrian, br, Wya and Cramer, Kra mercom, so Brian, it Brian Cramer Com, there'sa Wynak in there and and then w well email each other at where you can. Ifyou just want to check me out, you don't want to have a conversation, yetI totally get it go to Brian cramercom and that's that'sanother good way and we're Brian Cramer on any social channel, perfect pervectBrod. I can't think you know for taking the time Taay. It's been absolutelygreat. Having you on the show. Thank you so much. This been great. Ilove your questions, a thanks all right, everybody that does it for this episode.Please check us out of B, to B revizeccom share the episode withfriends, Families Coworkers anybody that you tink will get value from it.If you, if you like what you here, please drop us a review on itunes. Weuse those that feedback to make sure we're bringing the right guest on foryou guys who you C N Continue O keep coming back again, thanks everybody forbeing here and until next time we value prime solutions with you all nothing,but the greatest success you've been listening to the BTBrevenue executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episodesubscribe to the show, an itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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