The B2B Revenue Executive Experience
The B2B Revenue Executive Experience

Episode · 4 years ago

Brian Burns on 5 Key Elements to Build a Next Generation Sales Team


Sales has become an increasingly dynamic profession - from AI, to the evolving use of social media, to ever more complex decision making from buyers.  As a result, team structures that used to work, will not work in the future.

Brian Burns, host of The Brutal Truth About Sales & Selling, sits down with Chad Sanderson, Managing Partner, Value Prime Solutions, to discuss the five key elements sales executives need to consider as they design their next generation sales team and sales professionals must be aware of in order to succeed the next evolution of sales.

Subscribe to the podcast or listen to the episode above as they discuss the 5 key elements sales executives must consider as they build their next generation sales teams.

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Brian Burns - LinkedIn:

The Brutal Truth About Sales & Selling podcast:

You're listening to the BTB revenueexecutive experience, a podcast dedicated ELP, an executives traintheir sales and marketing cumes to optimize growth, whether you're lookingfor techniques and strategies wore tools and resources, you've come to theright place. Let's accelerate your growth in three to one: welcomeeveryone to the B Tob Revenue Executive Experience, I'm your host, Chad,Sanderson and today we're going to tackle a topic about how you create anext generation sales team, but we're going to do it in a little bitdifferent fashion. I've had the opportunity to connect with Brian Burns,who have several well known podcasts. Let's is the BTB revenue leadershipshow and the brutal truth about sales and selling. It's also well known,author, creater of the Maverick method and a well respected thought leader inthe sales space, and so what he and I've decided to do is kind of sit downon a regular basis and tackle big topics that Cros CMOS vpssales. We pemarketing ore wrestling with and kind of give a debrephone kind of where wesee the market going based on our experience and working with our clientsprovides some insights and hopefully, some strategies that will allowexecutives to you know, go back and start to make a difference and evolvein a way that will give them the kind of results they want. As marketdynamics continue to change at the end of the PODCAST I'll wrap it up with alittle bit more information, but until then I think I'm just going to let usroll right into the conversation with Brian, Hey, so the future of salesorganizations Chad, I had like number one is specialization: Have you seenthat happening a lot in Tho in your client base yea? Without a doubt, Imean specialization, becomes kind of key for sales reps to start to buildcredibility right and to be able to understand t e the buyers that they'reworking with right. Nobody wants to be sold to anymore. They want to becollaborated with. In order to do that, you really have to understand. You knowwhere that person is coming from and what it is that they're up against whatthey're facing what they you know, what their truat problems they have andtrying to solve them, and you have to bring value to that conversation. Inorder to do that, you know specializing in it, maybe an industry of vertical orif it's a tech solution, really knowing how that text solution can affect abusiness. I mean, I think, that's going to be critical. Moving forward, yeahyeah, because I had done a stent at IBM. The company was working et, gotacquired by them and it was kind of specialization gone mad, but it wasnecessary. You know, because you had people whowere the salesperson on the product sales engineers that were on theproduct, and you had people who knew the account people who knew you knowthe the whole the brand. And although it seemed you know, two Matrix, it did work. Itkind of came together when people needed it to and kind of dispersedafterwards, and I think we're going to have to specialize in the future,because the sales job is just gotten really tough. I think we're seeing ittoday with you know: the separation between you know people gettingmeetings like the sales development raps and then the people taking themeetings, but I think it's going to go even more than that. I think the next thing I think is going to bepopular, is kind of what they call the information conciers somebody who who'sbuilding the list are you seeing that or yeah? It was interesting, actuallyinterviewed, Mark Casa, glow he's the VPS sales for outreach totio, and hekind of caught me off guard wel. We're talking he's like yeah he's like thelast thing I want. My Sales Reps doing is actually picking the accounts thatthey're targeting and it I kind of stutter step. I was like wha wait whatI'm not used to hearing that he's like? No? No, I want my sales rep selling. Iwant somebody else vetting those accounts that they're targeting so thatthey make sure that they meet specific criteria that they you know they aregoing to be those type of a accounts and these sales guys aren't wastingtheir time because they're such you know, expensive resources. You knowgoing after stuff, that's not going to pan out and it was kind of eye opening.For me, I mean they've implemented it...

...pretty aggressively. It sounds like itoutreach and it's it I mean requires more people. I mean smaller businesseslike like mine. I wish I had somebody to put together lists, but in largerorganizations I can definitely see how that could be.You know particularly advantageous, and I think he just goes to thatsegmentation in that Specialisto. If you HAV, somebody really understandshow to evaluate you, know companies the types of roles and types of problemsthat they're in so they can really focus for the people that they'resetting meetings, for, I think that's going to be extremely advantageousgoing forward. That's it because that job is not. You know a fifty or ahundredk job. That job is a you know, a Twentya, thirtyk JAL right. You knowjust getting those email, ddresses phone numbers, you know, but socialprofiles and putting that into a crm and kind of maybe even finding out whatthey care about to targets and personalization separating that out, sothat a rap who's you know making eity to a hundred and fifty doesn't have tospend their time doing that because that's time consuming yeah, it's andit's quite honestly with all the clients that we've worked with. Youknow, especially like at a Dobe. The constant thing you see is all of thereps are like well, the first step is get your list like well. How do I getmy list? Where do I go? What do I do? How do I know if it's good, and so youcan just see the the wasted cycles right so that specialization onsomebody who really knows okay, here's the criteria that you really need to befoccusd on these the types of accounts we want now give that to the peoplethat are going to be. Actually, you know push them through the funnel. Itsays a lot of time and I think you get a better sense of scale out of it and my number two thing was usingtechnology. I think in the future the the sales reps who embrace technology you know before it's invogue. You knowthat the certain things about finding email addresses finding social stufffinding what people care about. I think those reps who really embracetechnology are going to be the ones that are going to succeed. Are youseeing that or yeah? It's interestirint, so there's this there's so many toolsout there right and more come to the forefront every day, and so it can geta little bit overwhelming for Reps. the key, I think, is to find a text ackthat enables them to accelerate to human connection right. Essentiallywhat you want to do. There's information everywhere you go! Look attwitter, linked in maybe someone's on snapchat. What whatever it is, there'sa whole bunch of places. You know Zoomimpo, you can pull all thisinformation from and put it into all f these different tools. I have atendency, sometimes to see sales reps get. You know they go too far down intothe shiny object like who here's your tool. This is the silver bullet. No, no,they really need to stay focused on the technology. That's going to make themmore effective at providing value and having that human connection, with withthe people that Hare that they're working with the tools are plentiful, Iguess my advice, Tanny rap, would be don't get distracted by them yeah. Ithink you have to adopt them slowly and get deep into them. Slowly and and notbecome. You know a tool Offisiinado, even though I fall in love with thesethings, but now it' the same hard not to right, but but I also try and keep a distanceto, because you know because a lot of them, you know the vendors say well,you're not using this or that and I'm like okay, but I I'm getting eightypercent of the value and fifteen minutes a day. You know I don't know ifI need to spend another thirty to sixty minutes a day to get the the remainingtwenty percent value. Yeah- and it's amazing- I mean, if you look at thingslike connect and cell right from a dialer on SR standpoint. Those are somephenomenal tools right. You can do it can rip through eight hundred and sixtydials in an hour, and it's only connecting you to the people that areactually picking up the phone. That's a phenomenal tool, but then there's allthe integration on the back end O, I forget who was I forget, who it was,but I was listening to James Cardberry's podcast and they had aMartech guy on and he was advocating that marketing and sales organizationshould have a technology person specifically dedicated to...

...the integration, maintenance andevolution of that text ack. So it's not on the sales reps plate as well. Soback again to your first point specialization, that's probably not abad idea, especially I think he said there Wese something like fifteenhundred sales and marketing solutions, applications or tools out there thatpeople could choose from. I mean that's just that's just overwhelming right, soYu just got to be careful not to get too distracted with that stuff yeah. Ithink you know any sizable company should have a marketing ops and a salesops, and you know on the. If I had the five things I'd like to have a salesmanager change, it would be number one is to get a sales offse person to doyour forecast and stuff yeah instead of wasting everyone's. You know two orthree hours a week to make sure every field is filled in and and it all looksthe way that he wants to see or she wants to see it, and it's just that'sreally administrative work that can be done by that person who's, not on thephone or in meetings with people. Right right I mean when you, when you look atit, it really Im. You look at sales in general, everybody talks about, youknow Oh aiis, going to replace sales, and all this fact of the matter is,people will always buy from people until robots are buying from robots,but I mean the end of the day people buy from people. So if you can use thetechnology and you can structure your organizations and your teams in such away to really focus on scaling that portion of it, I think you're going tohave wildly more success than just relying on you know. Somebody do it allat once. That's it because I think the technology you can use to find people,even you know, connect with them on a human level, but once you engage withthem, it has to be on the phone or in person right. It's not going to bethrough email right right. You know it is at least going to be. You know,go to meeting a skype call or whatever you use for you know, screen sharingand stuff, but it has to have that communication, because no one's sittingaround waiting for you to you know, call and pitch them. Rightright, I'msitting at my desk waiting for that next cold call, yeah t sell you something. My number three was sales. RAPS AE gotTA figure out what I call the mystery middle of the sales process, and Ithink this is like no one really talks about this part and what I mean by thatis: Let's say you have you know that Thiris a front end where you findsomebody you connect with them. You have that first meeting, but then whatreps do is e think they give them a proposal and what and what ends up happening right you'R,given a proposal to someone who has no budget, some influence a littlepolitical power and but has a big need right, but but they don't know what todo with is that's that's this mystery middale that reps don't understand whathas beens here and what has to happen here and you get into the situationwhere you. If both people don't know what to do, nothing happens or it justITL. Either happened by luck or by chance or will just die a slowda. Youknow you see the sales cycle, vastically increase right, I mean, ifyou look at any revenue, funnel you've got and people will name them or givethem different percentages. But you got to find them qualify them you got toeducate them, sell them and close them right, and so right now you see everyyou know, especially on on social median Everyo's talking about how youfind them. How do you prospect? How do you get hem in well, there's thateducation piece that there isn't a lot of focus on right now and that you knowokay, great, I got you into the funnel. Well now what the Hell do? I do withyou right if you're not consistently looking at educating D- And you knowproviding insights, providing value to get them to the point where they'relike yeah hey, I need to buy and also figuring out if the person you'retalking to is actually the guy who can sign a check. Wor woman excuse mebecause Iy can sign a check. You can't sell somebody you can't buy. They mayhave a problem, but it isn't going to resolve. You know the things that getfunded are the things that are business objectives and business issues, thingsthat are getting in the way of that and I raps really struggle. I thinksometimes I figure out they're just so happy that somebody wanted to talk tohim like. Ah He took my call. I got to...

...give him a a pitch now. I should justrip off a proposal. Well, that's more cycles that you're spending, withoutknowing, if you're, really selling to somebody who can write a check, then,if you're and if you're, really meeting an need, that's going to make adifference for the business. That's it nd. If they don't understandthat part and how to keep that deal moving and that's what reallydistinguishes you know great raps from okay. Raps agree. You know because itgets stuck there and what do they do they just hound that same person, and Ithink if I had a three point- five, it would be sticking with one personwithin the account Gh. You know and not you know, expanding outside and really getting out of dealing withjust that one person and understanding Yo the economic issues, the othertechnical issues like what you said with integration and everything theygot to understand that because somebody has to do that and nobody teaches this.You know there's no course on the mystery middle of the sale cycle.Everybody focuses on that front at the negotiation, the presentation, the Demo,but nobody really focuses on. How do you keep the deal moving right? Welland then you get them through the let's say you get them through there.Negotiation is a whole nother. I mean you get if it's a larger company, yourdeal, an procar men, I mean what I think it was it. CB said something likeseven people are involved in every decision making process, so thenegotiation portion of it becomes just as critical. I mean sales is no longer.You know open the phone book and Smile and dial until somebody says yeah. Ineed to set of knives or some new sighting right. It just doesn't worklike that anymore. It's just it's gotten a lot more complex and you know,as a sales professional. I probably have probably rubs me the wrong waywhen people talk about sales people in the same breath that they talk aboutpoliticians right, it's just so it's annoying because this isn't it's not asimple profession anymore and I think it's going to get the skill set isgoing to get more complex for people to really master the entire revenue funnel yeah yeah, and it's the person who'sgoing to figure this out, and that's why I call it the mystery, because it'snot the same every time yeah, it is a different company, Tho Companyyeah, but you'v got to understand that just because you sent a proposal withan expiration date that something's going to happen within that time frameis naive at best I thought out. Well, I gave him a date. I swear Posse Swer,give them a day they're going to close on this date, yeah, okay, that's it andthen it goes onto the forecast and the manager. It goes from what fifty toseventy five percent you better yeah. I love it when companies having clientshave fifty percent in ther in their in their sale stages like w one of thefirst things ill look at is what are the sale stages and anybody's got fiftypercent in there, like fifty percent of BS designation right, because I canflip a coin and it'll go either way so you're, either in control of theaccounter you're, not sorry right a ran on that fifty percentthing, yeah, hey so number four I had, I think, there's going to be a new role.I think it's starting to with merge now. As you know, the chief Revenue OfficerI'm starting to see that resonate as a way of getting marketing and sales towork together. Have you seen that within your client base? Yeah WEAC,IT'S INTERESTING! So when we, when we put together our podcast, we startthinkng about who we wanted to talk to. We specifically started talking about.You know all right: Let's get rid of the titles and let's look at howbusinesses operate right. So it's a revenue, it's all about revenue or ifit's a nonprofitor public sector. Maybe it's mission and funding, but there'sthis flow of money and the complexity that you've seen kind of crop up inboth marketing and sales and the everybody complains about theyre, notbeing enough alignment between marketing and sales. It requires adifferent type of leadership, so those Ciros that I mean we've seen some insome of our clients and they may come from a sales background they've atleast done sales somewhere at some point at least the ones I've met so farand see coming up, but they have a much broaderunderstanding of the entire way that a company interacts to generate revenue,and I think that's going to be in order to provide that vision and thatleadership kind of that point on the...

Horizon Everybody's aiming to O. Ithink it's Goan be critical for organizations in the future and I think it's going to require. Youknow a very unique person because you, you know sales is getting morecomplicated, marketing's getting more complicated and I think you'r going tohave to put client advocacy or client success under that as well, especiallyif you're an assase model where Mostlof your revenue is recurring and if youdon't get it to recurb yeah, your Ri Churn is just going to kill you yeahand what I mean if it's interesting, so I spent before I got into the sales andnemhrmants faces, but the last ten years doing digital experienc is thatmerging of physical and digital and so worked with companies like ferizon andthe Minnesota, Vikings and stuff. But what's interesting is seeing thatconcept of experience that totality of what a sales experience is is nowcreeping into sales mean the CX world proved that the return on investmentwas huge. Right, though I forget, I think it was forbs. Maybe did report oncompanies that had invested in their customer experience saw a huge returnson Wall Street right well now you're seeing and I think she was sales forcethat not noticed it in an report C for last year that sales exacts these chiefrevenue offiers are going well man. I've got a sales experience thatimpacts my brandet impacts. You know e the buyer and the concepts that I'vebeen hering for ten years on the CX ide like friction list like how do you makethis sales experience? frictionless are moving into sales and it's going totake somebody in that cro spot that not only understand the mechanics of saleswhich is getting more complicated and marketing, but how to put it alltogether in something that seemless, because Bta b buyers are now havingtheir expectations shaped by the bet C experiences that they have on a dailybasis and so they're going to have to match that and to understand that youknow thet doing the right, antropological and ethnographicresearch and how to tie that into things. Hat still generate revenue. Itis going to take a unique skill set. I think to be a successful CRO. I thinkthat point about the BTC experience and expectation is really creeping its wayinto the be to be meaning. Like the client. A customer has been in suchcontrol in the bdisease space that they have all this power at no cost.Rightand they're just worshipped, and you know and be to Beit it's kind ofnot necessarily that way in that it's hard to get into account. People don'twant to be bothered anymore. They want everything for free, they want to haveall the power they want to get it at the price they want that they don'tunderstand the differences, and you know the perfect example I have is. Iremember, reading the I was looking at this new iphone APP that had come outand it had like one star review and it was this beautiful APP. It was free andit's like all they said was: Oh, I couldn't expand the photos and I'mnotthe version. One is a one star: IT'S FREE RIGHT! Well, I took the time toCrim. You can go back, and actually you canlook at this. This transition of BTC experienceis influencing be Tobe,actually started with apple right. So, if you think about when the iphone it'sbeen a while meand, I know whe're at what ten years now, but when I, whenthat iphone came out, everybody was like holy crap. Look at this like itwas the wol factor. It changed the game it actually. For for users, it was alot more seamless, but for business it actually changed the dynamic right so,instead of it just developing applications and slapping and useurinterface on, you know at the end, as an afterthought, all of a sudden, theirapplications, ond stuff, could be deleted with a swipe of a finger and soall of a sudden, the powers in the consumers hand Sotos, be to see peoplestarted to drive. What was a phenomenal experience? Well, those BDC people arealso the buyers and B to B, and so their expectations of look don't sellto me. You K make sure it's about me, make sure it's about my value. Thoseare becoming more prevalent and their...

...expectations are bleeding over to thepoint where, if on the beata be side, I mean I, I got an email, I actually hasput a request in for a demo for an outreach type tool, sales, cadencingstuff and the email that the guy sent me tap. Pit Hit me wrong, maybe reallywrong like it was completely all about him like hey. If you're, not this goodor you don't do this or you don't have this solution that we can integratewith. There's no reason for us to talk, and I was just kind ike. What likealright, I'm not even I'm not eveon to respond to this like your tool, maybethe best one on the market, but you just pissed me off like. Why would youdo that? Why would you take that type of approach right- and I know havingbeen doing this for ten years- that my expectation for the type of experienceI want is much higher and I'm much more aware of it, but I'm seeing it with ourclients all the time. The people that you're selling to are influenced bywanting frictionless, easy collaborative types of experiences andButb sales, raps and especially Saros, are going to have to figure out how todeliver that they are and and were really hurts, isin the latent sale you. This is really what I focus on is like the latentsales, the the person who doesn't know you exist, hey not even know they havethe problem you solve, but it is, you know ninety eight percent of yourmarket at what everyone's doing today is putting all their money and effortinto the you know the one percent who's actively looking to buy your productinstead of the ninety nine that doesn't even know you existright well in sales,raps si mean have you seen. I mean I've seen throughout my career and I've Alalways struggled with it a little bit when I was when I was running teams, everybody wants to go for the obviousproblem, the one that somebody's talking about, but if you dig a littlebit deeper that laten stuff you'e really looking at a much largeropportunity, but sales reps don't seem for some reason I haven't figured out.Why don't seem to you know, focus on or dig into the stuff, where there's goingto be more opportunity, more dollars that you can sell more, you know morerevenue you can reap. I don't understand it. Maybe you've seen asolution. You have a socion for it, but I don't know how you get sales reps tosee that, especially when they're over you know overrun with new technologysolutions and all that kind of stuff. How do you? How do you 'm just out ofcuriosity? How do you work with them to get them understand that latent sale?Well, it is hard because their managers are focusing them. You know solely onyou know, call them and pitch them what they have to understand. It gets to mypoint of number five: is they don't know you right? If they don't know you,they can't like you, because they don't know you right and they certainly don't trustyou so the days of you being able to use a pitch. That's based off ofincreasing revenue, decreas in costs, everyone does it real. It doesn'treally stick anymore and it doesn't really kind pop up andwhat everybody does is say. I got to come up with a better pitch. I go. No,you have to become known, become liked and become trusted Niggla that takestoo long well, you're already at no. If you're there Wan I go to work for this. You don'thave to do a thing to go vis. You can stay it. No Youre, zero percent on theforecast right now you got to get to ten rightrigt and that's just not their name indtheir email address. That's them being able to you be able to converse withthem and to do that they have to know you like you ntrust you and you comingup with a more appealing pitch will work with somebody who may be openminded but they're. Not that's not going to get you ninety nine percent ofthe market. That's going to get you maybe another one percent right. Idon't. I can't remember the last time I've done a canned fitch, ik everythingI do is customized to the client that we're talking to and- and this is oneof the things that we teach- that concept of increasing your familiarityright. So you have all these tools at your sposal there's social there'semail. You can voice malls yea! There's this cadence! You can create toincrease familiarity without creating an ask. Does it take time? Okay, yeah?Maybe it takes you two weeks so that they actually recognize. You know whatI think I've seen Chad's name somewhere.

Maybe I should actually open anymore.Maybe I should respond to that. You know linked in request, because I'veseen his name start to work in the brand. That way right, it takes twothree weeks: okay, but if you got no and you're going nowhere bell, then itwasn't even in the funnal begin with so so at least take the time to build thatfamiliary and through that process, understand that person. So if you canunderstand them, then your pitch can be to them to their specific problems, toyou know, ways that you can uniquely help them, not just hey. I happen towork with another executive in the same industry and we did this. Are you? Areyou up for a conversation? No, I'm not a pass right. It's a lot like buyingthe drink at the bar, it's like, because that becomes a conversationpoint, and you start talking about what you're both interested in. You know, you're breaking the ice, andI think we know how to do this in the social world and the you know thephysical world when we're at parties with people and social situations, butwe lose it when we're at work. When we were like accounting, the number ofemails, we send a number of cold calls and voice mills we leave, but are youreally going from unknown to known? I don't think you are until you're doingsomething for them, yeah without Ao and in order to do it and provide theirvalue to get their attention you have to w preparations, another big one. Iknow I see a lot of rafts that just kind of want to hey. I put together tenemails, I'm going to rip these out to these people, I'm like okay, what great?But if you don't spend the time to do your homework, if you don't understandagain that person and what they're experiencing, if you're, notpersonalizing your out reach you're just kind of wasting your time thesedays, people want to feel important. They want to feel part of the processand in order for you to I mean at a cocktail party, you don't just walk upand say: Hey I'm selling this SAS solution. I noticed you were drinking ajack and coke. Do you want to buy this? That's not how it works right, like youreally got to think of the way that you interact with the technology or even inconversations you don't go straight for the sale. It's just a bit puts peopleoff in order to figure out when to do it right. You got to know your sawskills, but you also need to have done your homework and understand what thosepeople are up against. Yeah, Hey. I really appreciate your joining me todayand talking about this stuff and I'll sum it up at the end and we'll talk soon. All right. Iappreciate it. Thank you all right, everybody that does it for the episodetoday. Thank you for listening and men being with us today. I hope you foundsome value in the new format and the conversation between Brian and myselfnext time, Brid and I get together we're going to be talking about salesprocess and how you use that as a differentiator to so sales executivescan turn their sales teams into a differentiat or just as much as theproducts and services that they sell. We're going to do a deep dive on thatwith our top five. You know things to think about until then. Please shareout this podcast with friends, families coworkers and please leave us a reviewon itunes or stitcher your through your favorite podcast provider, and we usethose reviews t's to format the show choose what guests we bring on. Wereally want to make sure we continue to provide value to the listening audienceso again. Thank you. Everyone for showing up drop US review on itunes orStitcher, and until next time, myself and everyone of value. Prime solutionswishing nothing but the best filling the top of the funnel is a challenge,especially in dynamic markets, with shifting technology solutions andincreasingly informed buyers. There is no silver bullet to effectiveprospecting, but value. Prime Solutions has developed a proven framework andapproach. Thet delivers results, check out value, prime SOLUTIONSCOM, and askhow vortex prospecting can deliver more qualified leads for your teams.

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